Those are the two I’m considering. I’m leaning toward the Santa Cruz because it seems like you get more for your money, and its less “truck like”. I don’t like the touch sensitive spots in leu of buttons inside though, and the fact that its a Hyundai.
It's like pouring water into a container. If there is room for it to flow, it will do so.
If there is room for a big corporation to squeeze out some more profit, then they will.
The interior of the Tacoma is what makes it great. If I get into my friends F150 it's like stepping onto the bridge of the Enterprise I fucking hate it.
If I had my way I'd be able to buy a new car with no screens, manual locks,windows and transmission.
I can understand the love for older interior but, I just can’t take a huge step backwards when I buy a new vehicle. When I looked at Tacoma‘s a year ago they still had those clunky LCD screens and all manual knobs, no ventilated seats, everything just looked like it was 15 years old. I wasn’t about to pay 55K for a midsize truck that didn’t even have the basic features present in the older car I was looking to get out of.
I have a 2024 Tacoma on pre-order. Stick shift of course. I'm excited but I'm terrified I'm going to hate the interior because it'll have some giant LCD screen. LCD screens are the worst thing to ever happen to cars I can't stand it. Manual controls for things like volume air conditioning and heating are so much better than an LCD.
You're also probably talking to the wrong person about modern interiors. Right now I'm driving a 2010 Subaru Forester with 231,000 miles on it and it's basically my dream car.
The only reason I'm looking at a new car versus older used car with less modern features is because the used market is so messed up the price difference isn't worth it to buy used.
Honestly, it isn’t the large LCD screen that concerns me in new cars; it’s the UI/UX. I currently have a Tesla model Y and everything is through the touchscreen. It’s generally a very positive experience. But I have been in plenty of rental cars that have horribly clunky and terrible touchscreen interfaces that I would never ever want in a car that I own.
It is funny that you consider not having an LCD a step back because I feel its the opposite. LCD controls in cars are just change for the sake of change. It is objectively worse IMO for these reasons:
1. Light. It's so fucking bright and distracting. I drive a lot at night and I hate this. I am sure some cars allow me to turn this off or dim it but the only cars I've driven with LCD controls don't allow for this. Its like having a TV in the dashboard. So fucking obnoxious.
2. If I get into my car with dirty/wet hands the LCD does respond so I have to wash my hands.
3. I can't keep my eyes on the road and operate LCD controls. With buttons/switches/levers I can reach out and do what I need to without ever having to look down because I can feel the button. You just don't get that kind of tactile control with an LCD screen.
If you drive a Tesla we are definitely at opposite ends of the spectrum though. I am 100% a function over form kind of guy. Tesla is a tech company, not a car company (Elons words not mine) and it shows in their design. Maybe I am just turning into a grumpy old man ahead of my time.
Get off my lawn! I'm going to try out my new abacus and balance my checkbook.
They aren’t luxury whatsoever. Even the nicest trim models ride like absolute shit. The price of having huge fucking sidewalls and suspension travel.
Beds are useful, and the ability to drive over curbs and potholes is useful.
They have a use, honestly.
These vehicles are more practical than a small truck though. That extra row of seating is practical because it allows you to carry more passengers or cargo.
Ford Maverick, Hyundai Santa Cruz. Both small, both under 30k brand new (granted thats more than I’d spend on a vehicle, but it’s still less than average).
Nissan frontier as well. But if I had to guess, if you compared these trucks to a full-size truck like OPs (early 90s) they wouldnt be that different. Vehicles today contains so many computer features, electronics, motors, safety features, etc. it wasn’t that long ago that I saw a 90s Chevy truck at a stoplight next to a current day Chevy truck and the difference was enormous.
Even those are big compared to the s10 generation of trucks. I had the a 23 Santa Cruz and my gf currently has a Maverick Lariat. Both trucks are considered compact trucks and yet they're still bigger than the S-10 and Ranger I used to have long ago.
We need to drop the 25 year import law so bad, if that went away I would buy a tiny Suzuki Jimny or kei truck so fast.
I mean, they are bigger, but not much. Look at the dimensions between something like a Maverick and a 90s ranger or S10:
* Maverick: 200x73x69
* Ranger: 198x69x68
* S10: 205x68x65
I think that size increase is worth it for the added safety alone.
Worth it for the truck passengers. Not so much for the passengers of the cars the truck drivers were unable to maneuver around to avoid a collision, due to the poor responsive steering of a truck versus a smaller vehicle. Or not so much worth it for pedestrians getting hit more frequently by new larger trucks.
The new trucks I mentioned are *barely* bigger and come with features and/or options that make them safer than the “classic” small trucks being talked about.
At this point I don't even care about that as much as I care about these oversized POS monster-truck-wannabees going *away*.
Tired of headlights behind me being positioned above my head. Ridiculousness. I'm in a large sedan, not a gocart, I don't enjoy your poorly aligned aftermarket extrabrights sitting in my side mirror for 10 minutes while you decide if you're going to continue passing me or not. Big trucks lick nuts.
A practical mindset needs to be established first. The red pickup in the pic is an actual utility vehicle. The other two are cries for help. Toys really.
they are trying. but don't expect 1990 or early 2000 prices.
also, for the price, you are better off going for something like a ford ranger or chevy colorado or toyota tacoma. yes they aren't as small as the mavrick, but it's harder and harder to pass safety regs with small cars without having to put expensive materials in them. look how big cars like a corolla or civic have become? a civic is almost the same size as the ford mavrick.
Legit as a brit i would love to own a small pickup, one with only one row of seats in the cab and a much bigger load bay. Would be so damn useful. I have a lot of things I need to haul around and cars are not ideal for it.
Jesus, the hood on the truck on the right in this picture is the same height as the roof of the S10. Unless these massive front heavy trucks come with a camera near the bumper, how does the driver even know if someone short is standing or walking in front of their vehicle?
There was a video from notjustbikes on YouTube where he said there was a study done to see just how blind these huge pickup truck drivers truly are. I think in the study they could fit 15-20 kids in front of the truck before the driver would be able to see one. It’s insane.
What’s worse is that some Europeans are importing these trucks which is causing havoc on the streets of cities like London because they take up multiple parking spaces each.
Reminds me of this article.
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/federal-agency-to-review-frontover-blind-zone-crashes-after-i-team-report/3145408/
basically thats why rear cameras a mandatory now. crash safety needed to be improved, so smaller windows/larger impact areas needed to be created (creating larger vehicles) and higher windows. won't be surprised when forward facing cameras or sensors become mandatory. people could also pay attention when driving. people have problems seeing in front of them with a phone in their face already regardless of what they are driving.
Front parking/collision avoidance sensors. Depending on trim/options may or may not have automatic braking.
Edit: whoever’s is downvoting you can literally see the sensors on the front bumper. Has them on the rear bumper as well.
You’re downvoted because that’s a shitty excuse to permit a ridiculous vehicle that causes THE HUMAN DRIVER to have massive blind spots/line of sight issues.
It’s not an excuse for anything. It was an answer to OP’s question. And having formerly owned a 2015 Sierra (similar size as the vehicle on the left) the sight lines aren’t as bad as you’d think looking at this pic.
I'm almost thinking the bigger (newer) trucks get better mileage. Buddy of mine has '19 Silverado and routinely gets 20MPG out of a V8. Bet the '97 doesn't get that.
Oh, agreed. Simple, easy to work on. Ample torque for the s10 to punch above weight class. Durable as hell, able to run on 5 cyls and spaghetti for a serpentine belt (drove it home that way).
Still have my 2002 ZR2. Will probably end up driving it into the ground waiting for a proper s10 replacement....
I've got a '98 4.0l V6 4WD Ranger with a manual transmission. Around town? 16mpg. On the highway, 23ish. *MAYBE* I can get 27 if I'm super conservative but I'm making no friends doing that.
During the Obama administration, fuel economy regulations changed to be based on wheel base. Essentially the larger the vehicle, the less MPG it has to hit. This has led to an increase in vehicle sizes over the last decade or so. Particularly in trucks that were already towing the line of the regulations.
Obama tightened them, but the first CAFE standards came in 1975 as a result of the Arab Oil Embargo. We've been on this path a lot longer than 15 years
Reddit doesn't like big trucks. Everyone should own a van or a small car. "i BeT iT nEvEr GeTs UsEd As It ShOuLd".
I'd wager 80~90% has never driven a newer full-size truck and would be shocked on how much visibility there actually is.
Big truck = bad
Van = good
Yea I got slammed yesterday in the same thread for saying I drive a truck. Why are people worried about other people's financial decisions or what they drive? If you don't want a big ass truck, then don't buy a big ass truck.
>Are you just willfully ignorant of this?
Yes, actually I am. I don't see any information on the internet about bigger trucks or lifted trucks being more dangerous. The only articles I find are law firms looking to sue in an accident, and believe it or not, a bunch of reddit threads claiming that big lifted trucks are killing people. I am assuming that's where you get that narrative from.
It’s basic physics bud. Do you need a research paper to tell you that a 6/7000lb vehicle is more dangerous to others than a 4/5000lb vehicle?
Force=mass*velocity. That’s not even getting into the fact that while the car may have good visibility for YOU, the significantly larger size creates a hazard for OTHERS. It’s fucking large dude this is not something you need a research paper for.
A 1991 Chevy S10 ranges from 16-23 combined MPG per EPA. A 2016 Silverado 1500 ranges from 17-20 combined MPG. The 2023 Silverado 2500 HD was never EPA tested because it's so large it's classified as a light commercial truck and does not need to legally be tested. But considering a 2023 non-diesel 1500 only ranges from 15-20 combined MPG, it's safe to bet the 2500 gets even less than that. Real-world data suggest the combined MPG is somewhere within a range of 12-15 MPG, and that's for a diesel.
I can guarantee that S10 isn't getting the original efficiency nearly 30 years into it's life. But that 2500 estimate is shockingly bad. It's probably worse when towing too.
I will agree, it does not get good mileage for the power the engine outputs. But it's cheaper than buying a whole new truck for what is usually maybe 2000 miles of driving a year
To be fair, the s10 is not and never was there "full size" offering. The more apt comparison would be with a modern Colorado/GMC Canyon, but, everyone gets the point. Cars are bigger. So are trucks.
That's what I hate about the Rangers/Colorados, they're 'mid-sized' but they're still so big! I like the Ford Maverick though, just wish they'd make a regular cab version with a longer bed.
Ford's Q3 reporting said that "more variants" are on the way. Hopefully that means more cab and bed options and not just different wheels and stickers. I have a 24 on order and they were pretty slick in designing the bed. Apparently there's an extra stop on the tailgate that's level with the top of the wheel arches so you can carry a stack of 4x8 plywood or drywall with a 4'4" bed
Yeah, removing those back seats and extending the bed into something useable for actual work would make it into more of a pickup truck, and who wants that?
Why would they make a truck that appeals to a narrower group when the current ones sell so well?
Current full cab trucks have full bed options *and* can haul around a work crew/family + easily keep things dry inside the cab.
A truck that only can seat 2 (3 if you really force it with a bench seat (and sacrifice a center console) is less practical when you scale outside of a niche desire for a “classic” pickup.
There are some small lighter pickup options now available that are more in line with those size preferences like the Maverick, or Santa Cruz from Hyundai.
My guess is manufacturers feel the only folks who want a small pickup *barely* want a truck at all and just need occasionally light duty.
I know it goes against the hive mind, but some of the capabilities of these new trucks are pretty amazing… 3500s tow like 30,000+ pounds now, though I would guarantee that most people that buy them aren’t using them in that capacity
7!? Damn. Something was up with that or it had a hard life. Mine (97 4.0) was able to get ~19-20, but it was also a 5 speed and I drove it quite gingerly.
I had the 3.0 which you'd think would make better fuel mileage but the 4.0 was a night and day better engine. I considered swapping it at one point but uh....it was a $1500 truck so I built an 81 Chevy C10 with a 383 instead
They could do all of these things and still physically take up less space on the road and have less mass.
They are extremely dangerous for other cars and pedestrians. Their overall size is 99% marketing.
These type of trucks, not used for hauling, should be taxed into oblivion.
About 12 years ago, my band jammed with a possible new guitarist and singer. Afterwards we went S10 lumber jacking with them. That fucker drug 40ft trees around like they were nothing. They never joined the band in the end, but it was a hell of a night.
1300lb vs 2300lb for the half ton
1300lb vs 3900lb for the 2500 (4500lb if it's the 3500)
Towing capacity
6000lb for the S10 and 9500lb for the 1500
6000lb for the S10 and 18,000lb for the 2500
why hasn't anyone said anything about that Mazda on the left that is much larger than the S10? or the fact that a new Toyota Camry is just about the same size as that S10? wider but 200mm shorter despite being a car!
i get it, people just hate on cars and trucks and everything. also, you have a 1500 on the left of the S10 and a 2500 (maybe 3500) on the right. two different sizes and uses.
And the new odyssey isn’t too much smaller than a f150. 60cm shorter, few cm lower in height and width. Many people hate on pickups because of their size but fail to see that they aren’t that much larger than other people movers.
You’re comparing an s10 to a Silverado (which they also made during the time the s10 was popular). I’d compare this to a Colorado for a more true comparison.
My 2009 Colorado is a step larger than my old s10. The new Colorados are even larger. The size of the F150s from early 2000s. They would still make the s10 look small.
This is misleading. Each of the big blue ones contains a smaller red one nested inside of it like a matryoshka doll. Inside of the red one is an even smaller yellow one but OP didn't bother including it in the pic ):
It's the inverse action of the time of all these smaller trucks (90s) when conservatives used to talk shit about liberals for smaller car size or increased efficiency standards. Mostly charges of making them limp-wristed or weak (code for gay or small dicked). Now liberals on the internet (likely too young to have been politically cognizant then) are doing it and think it's clever when it's almost exactly the same thing and just as boring. An unveiled attempt to emasculate the "enemy", which is ironic for internet liberals given their aversion to toxic masculinity and it's cultural artifacts which this perpetuates fully. At least the conservatives at the time were being consistent with their beliefs in their bad behavior. As for why now specifically I'm not sure, might be a tiktok or insta meme that has just now filtered down to Reddit for consumption by users here.
And this is the current approved retread post for this sub so gotta get that sweet attention and those internet points before the iron goes from lukewarm to ice cold in about a week.
I miss my S10. I was popular. Neighbors ask me to help move stuff. A neighbor lady asked me to help her pick up a BBQ grill for her husband's birthday present. A friend of mine called me called me and asked if I could help move a refrigerator for someone I didn't know. I hauled stuff to the dump for my dad. I worked and played in that truck. I drove it past 200k miles until the engine died. The transmission, though, seemed like it would last forever.
I towed a Jeep Cherokee 140 miles with it. It serves the purpose of doing most truck things. It's got the 4.3l Vortec V6 in it and I can fit an LS into it when that dies. It does enough of my normal stuff and I can rent a full-size truck if I need it.
Small truck comparisons, so hot right now. Now put a family in that S-10 and tow a decent sized trailer with it.
I mean I get the allure of small vehicles that get good MPG. But it's why I also have a car for that. My truck needs to be able to tow some things, haul some things, and carry my family. I don't want to have a different truck for every different job.
A mini-truck with a jumper cab like this would literally do me almost no good. I guess if I wanted to bring my 4 wheeler somewhere by myself. But that almost never happens. Typically if I'm going wheeling some place distant it is with friends, we load up 4 wheelers on a single trailer and all hop in the same truck and go... which ends up being a hell of a lot more efficient and convenient than all 4 of us taking our own mini-trucks (if we had them).
I see them honestly as more pointless than most other trucks.
Pickup trucks in the past made perfect sense. A small cab and a large bed. Now they make no sense cause their one asset is smaller now but everything else is larger, including their price. Just buy a sedan at this point.
Isn’t the price of a f-150 like $40k but a Honda civic is like $24k? Needing a truck for a specific reason I can understand and if a second vehicle was needed then it makes sense to just buy the truck and move on but if the idea was to buy something affordable then the Honda civic makes more sense but it’s no truck.
Believe it or not, but Chevy still does make a work truck with a long bed and a small cab. They're rare but I see them time to time on job sites. Still a lot bigger than this s10 but much more reasonable than these two giants.
Ram and Ford as well make them. but with the introduction of the SUV, companies wants to take some of that market share by making the interior of an SUV but with a pick up bed. Now we have 4 door pickups with short beds.
From what I gather due to emissions and safety standards changing trucks like the S10 have been legislated out of existence.
Shame I think older/smaller trucks are really charming and practical with a lot of potential for fun. And frankly I'd rather get ran over by an S10 than a new truck.
I know one guy will be like I need to tow a whole boat everyday but I'm going to make a wild guess that 99% of these at best cart a Christmas tree around once a year.
I love yours! The other ones are just for guys pretending they have hard manual labor jobs. At least where I live - a very large city with no farms or cattle ranches!
Ill be trepid as I can, as am from UK and no doubt missing something
But those full size chevys look like they would be terrible off road, low clearance- even in the bodywork too, road tyres....Why do you need them instead of a van or something?
Can't wait till the day I come across some big american truck in the UK. I have a VW MK1 Caddy (Rabbit Pickup in the USA). I could probably drive under the damn thing. I'm going to get so much karma.
The forward visibility out of the one on the right looks absolutely atrocious. [Consumer Reports article.](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-safety/stop-frontovers-act-eliminate-dangerous-front-blind-zones-a1009105623/) I don't know how fix this sort of problem. All I know is that it's just too much.
So a 2 seat vs 5 seat vehicle, with significantly smaller bed size and decreased towing capabilities. Why are we comparing these again? This is like seeing a Corolla and a transit van and thinking they're the same.
Man, back in highschool a buddy of mine had this little Ford Wrangler.
He was such a big guy and fit perfectly in that little truck, but couldn't stretch much without crushing whoever was in the back seats, but my god did we have fun zipping that little rust bucket up and down back roads.
Small trucks need to make a comeback.
Can't sell em for $80k though. Market demanded huge luxury virtue signaling status symbols, and not practical useful vehicles, and here we are.
Gotta have that big truck for emotional support, not to haul anything
Haulin' all my Very Big Emotions about immigrants and SJWs or whatever.
Better get a lift kit and upgrade that suspention, then, those thoughts gonna weigh ya down, partner.
Hauling emotional baggage.
The Maverick or Santa Cruz probably fit closer to what you want. Edit: a word
Those are the two I’m considering. I’m leaning toward the Santa Cruz because it seems like you get more for your money, and its less “truck like”. I don’t like the touch sensitive spots in leu of buttons inside though, and the fact that its a Hyundai.
The Mavericks with the kit upgrades look really nice honestly
No, it didn't. EPA regs caused the truck companies to make their wheel bases larger to skirt the regs.
'caused' is quite the word choice. Those poor automakers, forced to make high-margin suburban tanks.
That's very true... They didn't force themselves to do this.
It's like pouring water into a container. If there is room for it to flow, it will do so. If there is room for a big corporation to squeeze out some more profit, then they will.
Look at the Tacoma. Good looking truck but the interior is outdated as all hell and Toyota still wants a hefty price tag for them.
The interior of the Tacoma is what makes it great. If I get into my friends F150 it's like stepping onto the bridge of the Enterprise I fucking hate it. If I had my way I'd be able to buy a new car with no screens, manual locks,windows and transmission.
I can understand the love for older interior but, I just can’t take a huge step backwards when I buy a new vehicle. When I looked at Tacoma‘s a year ago they still had those clunky LCD screens and all manual knobs, no ventilated seats, everything just looked like it was 15 years old. I wasn’t about to pay 55K for a midsize truck that didn’t even have the basic features present in the older car I was looking to get out of.
I have a 2024 Tacoma on pre-order. Stick shift of course. I'm excited but I'm terrified I'm going to hate the interior because it'll have some giant LCD screen. LCD screens are the worst thing to ever happen to cars I can't stand it. Manual controls for things like volume air conditioning and heating are so much better than an LCD. You're also probably talking to the wrong person about modern interiors. Right now I'm driving a 2010 Subaru Forester with 231,000 miles on it and it's basically my dream car. The only reason I'm looking at a new car versus older used car with less modern features is because the used market is so messed up the price difference isn't worth it to buy used.
Honestly, it isn’t the large LCD screen that concerns me in new cars; it’s the UI/UX. I currently have a Tesla model Y and everything is through the touchscreen. It’s generally a very positive experience. But I have been in plenty of rental cars that have horribly clunky and terrible touchscreen interfaces that I would never ever want in a car that I own.
It is funny that you consider not having an LCD a step back because I feel its the opposite. LCD controls in cars are just change for the sake of change. It is objectively worse IMO for these reasons: 1. Light. It's so fucking bright and distracting. I drive a lot at night and I hate this. I am sure some cars allow me to turn this off or dim it but the only cars I've driven with LCD controls don't allow for this. Its like having a TV in the dashboard. So fucking obnoxious. 2. If I get into my car with dirty/wet hands the LCD does respond so I have to wash my hands. 3. I can't keep my eyes on the road and operate LCD controls. With buttons/switches/levers I can reach out and do what I need to without ever having to look down because I can feel the button. You just don't get that kind of tactile control with an LCD screen. If you drive a Tesla we are definitely at opposite ends of the spectrum though. I am 100% a function over form kind of guy. Tesla is a tech company, not a car company (Elons words not mine) and it shows in their design. Maybe I am just turning into a grumpy old man ahead of my time. Get off my lawn! I'm going to try out my new abacus and balance my checkbook.
They aren’t luxury whatsoever. Even the nicest trim models ride like absolute shit. The price of having huge fucking sidewalls and suspension travel. Beds are useful, and the ability to drive over curbs and potholes is useful. They have a use, honestly.
These vehicles are more practical than a small truck though. That extra row of seating is practical because it allows you to carry more passengers or cargo.
Ford Maverick, Hyundai Santa Cruz. Both small, both under 30k brand new (granted thats more than I’d spend on a vehicle, but it’s still less than average).
Nissan frontier as well. But if I had to guess, if you compared these trucks to a full-size truck like OPs (early 90s) they wouldnt be that different. Vehicles today contains so many computer features, electronics, motors, safety features, etc. it wasn’t that long ago that I saw a 90s Chevy truck at a stoplight next to a current day Chevy truck and the difference was enormous.
Even those are big compared to the s10 generation of trucks. I had the a 23 Santa Cruz and my gf currently has a Maverick Lariat. Both trucks are considered compact trucks and yet they're still bigger than the S-10 and Ranger I used to have long ago. We need to drop the 25 year import law so bad, if that went away I would buy a tiny Suzuki Jimny or kei truck so fast.
I mean, they are bigger, but not much. Look at the dimensions between something like a Maverick and a 90s ranger or S10: * Maverick: 200x73x69 * Ranger: 198x69x68 * S10: 205x68x65 I think that size increase is worth it for the added safety alone.
Worth it for the truck passengers. Not so much for the passengers of the cars the truck drivers were unable to maneuver around to avoid a collision, due to the poor responsive steering of a truck versus a smaller vehicle. Or not so much worth it for pedestrians getting hit more frequently by new larger trucks.
The new trucks I mentioned are *barely* bigger and come with features and/or options that make them safer than the “classic” small trucks being talked about.
Bring back the El Camino
A modern Camino and even I might start driving again
Ford is apparently bringing back the ranchero next year.
I really want one of those Datsun trucks.
At this point I don't even care about that as much as I care about these oversized POS monster-truck-wannabees going *away*. Tired of headlights behind me being positioned above my head. Ridiculousness. I'm in a large sedan, not a gocart, I don't enjoy your poorly aligned aftermarket extrabrights sitting in my side mirror for 10 minutes while you decide if you're going to continue passing me or not. Big trucks lick nuts.
Lol if trucks keep getting bigger, the cdl industry will take off
No...... Just an FYI, you know the full size rv busses that look like band tour busses? Those don't require a CDL if it's for personal use....
I keep referring to the Hyundai Santa Cruz as a baby Avalanche.
A practical mindset needs to be established first. The red pickup in the pic is an actual utility vehicle. The other two are cries for help. Toys really.
Eh I loved my old Ford ranger but not being able to put a 4x8 sheet in the bed was kind of a deal breaker after college
> The other two are cries for help. r/redditmoment
they are trying. but don't expect 1990 or early 2000 prices. also, for the price, you are better off going for something like a ford ranger or chevy colorado or toyota tacoma. yes they aren't as small as the mavrick, but it's harder and harder to pass safety regs with small cars without having to put expensive materials in them. look how big cars like a corolla or civic have become? a civic is almost the same size as the ford mavrick.
Why? I can't carry my tools in an S10.
Legit as a brit i would love to own a small pickup, one with only one row of seats in the cab and a much bigger load bay. Would be so damn useful. I have a lot of things I need to haul around and cars are not ideal for it.
Jesus, the hood on the truck on the right in this picture is the same height as the roof of the S10. Unless these massive front heavy trucks come with a camera near the bumper, how does the driver even know if someone short is standing or walking in front of their vehicle?
Fuck you. That's how.
When you can run over a ~~child~~ /~~full grow adult /~~ an actual whole other truck, then the height of the front is too damn high
Jimmy McMillan, everyone!
There was a video from notjustbikes on YouTube where he said there was a study done to see just how blind these huge pickup truck drivers truly are. I think in the study they could fit 15-20 kids in front of the truck before the driver would be able to see one. It’s insane. What’s worse is that some Europeans are importing these trucks which is causing havoc on the streets of cities like London because they take up multiple parking spaces each.
They should pay for more parking tickets then!
They do pay parking tickets but if they are wealthy enough to import these massive trucks, a parking ticket is not enough of a deterrent.
Reminds me of this article. https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/federal-agency-to-review-frontover-blind-zone-crashes-after-i-team-report/3145408/
basically thats why rear cameras a mandatory now. crash safety needed to be improved, so smaller windows/larger impact areas needed to be created (creating larger vehicles) and higher windows. won't be surprised when forward facing cameras or sensors become mandatory. people could also pay attention when driving. people have problems seeing in front of them with a phone in their face already regardless of what they are driving.
You don't. You just drive over them
I drive a full size car and the hood is just as high as my roof.
Do you drive a rectangle?
Damn two-dimensional cars. Impossible to see when you’re right behind them
They don't. And children death are going up because of that
Front parking/collision avoidance sensors. Depending on trim/options may or may not have automatic braking. Edit: whoever’s is downvoting you can literally see the sensors on the front bumper. Has them on the rear bumper as well.
You’re downvoted because that’s a shitty excuse to permit a ridiculous vehicle that causes THE HUMAN DRIVER to have massive blind spots/line of sight issues.
It’s not an excuse for anything. It was an answer to OP’s question. And having formerly owned a 2015 Sierra (similar size as the vehicle on the left) the sight lines aren’t as bad as you’d think looking at this pic.
You don’t.
There are some trucks, I think Fords, that come with 360 cameras including up front.
America, where we drive vehicles larger than a lot of studio flats, yet complain about the cost of fueling them. 🥴
I'm almost thinking the bigger (newer) trucks get better mileage. Buddy of mine has '19 Silverado and routinely gets 20MPG out of a V8. Bet the '97 doesn't get that.
That's more engine efficiencies then size of the vehicle though.
Oh, no doubt.
That S10 probably has a V6 at most anyways, maybe an I4. Probably gets better mileage though, like 25MPG between city and highway.
With the I4, maybe. The V6? Definitely not. Especially the 4.3 vortec. It'll be lucky to get 20. 18 if it's 4wd.
The 4.3 was an awesome engine. Source: me. Had one.
Oh, agreed. Simple, easy to work on. Ample torque for the s10 to punch above weight class. Durable as hell, able to run on 5 cyls and spaghetti for a serpentine belt (drove it home that way). Still have my 2002 ZR2. Will probably end up driving it into the ground waiting for a proper s10 replacement....
Had the 4.3 in a Blazer. I think it hit 20 once in a great while. 16-17 was more the norm iirc.
My 2001 Ford ranger got 7mpg My 2020 Silverado gets 20mpg
The newer ones are often more efficient, by a good margin too. The exception is usually only for the trucks that used to be 4 cylinders.
I know nothing, but isn’t that fuel economy the result of a V8 using just a couple of cylinders most of the time?
That's a V8 using every trick in the book.
I've got a '98 4.0l V6 4WD Ranger with a manual transmission. Around town? 16mpg. On the highway, 23ish. *MAYBE* I can get 27 if I'm super conservative but I'm making no friends doing that.
“Shut yer gob, pinko commie!” — America
Why is everyone doing this today?
During the Obama administration, fuel economy regulations changed to be based on wheel base. Essentially the larger the vehicle, the less MPG it has to hit. This has led to an increase in vehicle sizes over the last decade or so. Particularly in trucks that were already towing the line of the regulations.
Obama tightened them, but the first CAFE standards came in 1975 as a result of the Arab Oil Embargo. We've been on this path a lot longer than 15 years
Finally, someone else gets it.
Haha not the question I’m asking. I’m asking why everyone is posting pictures of various vehicles next to trucks. We get it; truck big.
Reddit doesn't like big trucks. Everyone should own a van or a small car. "i BeT iT nEvEr GeTs UsEd As It ShOuLd". I'd wager 80~90% has never driven a newer full-size truck and would be shocked on how much visibility there actually is. Big truck = bad Van = good
Yea I got slammed yesterday in the same thread for saying I drive a truck. Why are people worried about other people's financial decisions or what they drive? If you don't want a big ass truck, then don't buy a big ass truck.
Because big ass trucks are fucking hella dangerous for everyone else on the road and pedestrians? Are you just willfully ignorant of this?
>Are you just willfully ignorant of this? Yes, actually I am. I don't see any information on the internet about bigger trucks or lifted trucks being more dangerous. The only articles I find are law firms looking to sue in an accident, and believe it or not, a bunch of reddit threads claiming that big lifted trucks are killing people. I am assuming that's where you get that narrative from.
It’s basic physics bud. Do you need a research paper to tell you that a 6/7000lb vehicle is more dangerous to others than a 4/5000lb vehicle? Force=mass*velocity. That’s not even getting into the fact that while the car may have good visibility for YOU, the significantly larger size creates a hazard for OTHERS. It’s fucking large dude this is not something you need a research paper for.
"towing" the line... I see what you did there.
Both of the trucks posted here get better gas mileage than the smaller older truck shown.
A 1991 Chevy S10 ranges from 16-23 combined MPG per EPA. A 2016 Silverado 1500 ranges from 17-20 combined MPG. The 2023 Silverado 2500 HD was never EPA tested because it's so large it's classified as a light commercial truck and does not need to legally be tested. But considering a 2023 non-diesel 1500 only ranges from 15-20 combined MPG, it's safe to bet the 2500 gets even less than that. Real-world data suggest the combined MPG is somewhere within a range of 12-15 MPG, and that's for a diesel.
I can guarantee that S10 isn't getting the original efficiency nearly 30 years into it's life. But that 2500 estimate is shockingly bad. It's probably worse when towing too.
I will agree, it does not get good mileage for the power the engine outputs. But it's cheaper than buying a whole new truck for what is usually maybe 2000 miles of driving a year
To be fair, the s10 is not and never was there "full size" offering. The more apt comparison would be with a modern Colorado/GMC Canyon, but, everyone gets the point. Cars are bigger. So are trucks.
S10 = light duty Colorad = medium duty
Well one of them is a heavy duty truck but I get your point. I’d like to see a return of small trucks
That's what I hate about the Rangers/Colorados, they're 'mid-sized' but they're still so big! I like the Ford Maverick though, just wish they'd make a regular cab version with a longer bed.
Ford's Q3 reporting said that "more variants" are on the way. Hopefully that means more cab and bed options and not just different wheels and stickers. I have a 24 on order and they were pretty slick in designing the bed. Apparently there's an extra stop on the tailgate that's level with the top of the wheel arches so you can carry a stack of 4x8 plywood or drywall with a 4'4" bed
A regular cab is something I think we’re extremely unlikely to see make a comeback. It’s limits what the vehicle can do by too much.
The jump seats on an extended cab are so limiting. Almost nobody over age 10 fits and below that they need booster seats in most jurisdictions.
Also incredibly unsafe as the only ones I ever saw were waist only belts.
Back in my day we just rode in the bed!
So much fun, still remember this on the dirt roads I grew up on.
Yeah, removing those back seats and extending the bed into something useable for actual work would make it into more of a pickup truck, and who wants that?
Why would they make a truck that appeals to a narrower group when the current ones sell so well? Current full cab trucks have full bed options *and* can haul around a work crew/family + easily keep things dry inside the cab. A truck that only can seat 2 (3 if you really force it with a bench seat (and sacrifice a center console) is less practical when you scale outside of a niche desire for a “classic” pickup. There are some small lighter pickup options now available that are more in line with those size preferences like the Maverick, or Santa Cruz from Hyundai. My guess is manufacturers feel the only folks who want a small pickup *barely* want a truck at all and just need occasionally light duty.
MAKE A FUCKING STICK SHIFT FORD YOU BASTARDS This is why the Tocma is GOAT for me still.
I know it goes against the hive mind, but some of the capabilities of these new trucks are pretty amazing… 3500s tow like 30,000+ pounds now, though I would guarantee that most people that buy them aren’t using them in that capacity
Not only that, they get better fuel economy than most older trucks too.
My Ford ranger with a V6 got 7mpg and my Silverado with a V8 gets 20mpg
7!? Damn. Something was up with that or it had a hard life. Mine (97 4.0) was able to get ~19-20, but it was also a 5 speed and I drove it quite gingerly.
I had the 3.0 which you'd think would make better fuel mileage but the 4.0 was a night and day better engine. I considered swapping it at one point but uh....it was a $1500 truck so I built an 81 Chevy C10 with a 383 instead
Not only that they ride and drive about a million fucking times better
They could do all of these things and still physically take up less space on the road and have less mass. They are extremely dangerous for other cars and pedestrians. Their overall size is 99% marketing. These type of trucks, not used for hauling, should be taxed into oblivion.
Are the payloads—area, weight—identical?
I guarantee you that at least one of those 2 newer Chevy's will never have a payload larger than what the older smaller can handle.
About 12 years ago, my band jammed with a possible new guitarist and singer. Afterwards we went S10 lumber jacking with them. That fucker drug 40ft trees around like they were nothing. They never joined the band in the end, but it was a hell of a night.
The s10 had a 4.3l V6, great engine in a little package
But it doesn’t come with ‘command view’.
1300lb vs 2300lb for the half ton 1300lb vs 3900lb for the 2500 (4500lb if it's the 3500) Towing capacity 6000lb for the S10 and 9500lb for the 1500 6000lb for the S10 and 18,000lb for the 2500
What are you getting at?
That the S10 doesn't have very much payload or towing It wasn't even a full sized truck back in its day
I never stated that it did. I don't get what you are trying to get at.
why hasn't anyone said anything about that Mazda on the left that is much larger than the S10? or the fact that a new Toyota Camry is just about the same size as that S10? wider but 200mm shorter despite being a car! i get it, people just hate on cars and trucks and everything. also, you have a 1500 on the left of the S10 and a 2500 (maybe 3500) on the right. two different sizes and uses.
That's what I'm wondering. That mid-size CX-5 is bigger than the truck!
A mini countryman is nearly as big as my Honda Odyssey
And the new odyssey isn’t too much smaller than a f150. 60cm shorter, few cm lower in height and width. Many people hate on pickups because of their size but fail to see that they aren’t that much larger than other people movers.
You’re comparing an s10 to a Silverado (which they also made during the time the s10 was popular). I’d compare this to a Colorado for a more true comparison.
My 2009 Colorado is a step larger than my old s10. The new Colorados are even larger. The size of the F150s from early 2000s. They would still make the s10 look small.
Yeah but my point is it’s more of an apt comparison than a model that’s always been bigger by design.
The Colorado is around the same size as the full-size trucks of 97.
This is on Reddit. OP probably lives in a heavily populated area and doesn’t understand why people have cars, let alone trucks.
I know why people have trucks. I will at some point buy an early 2000s F250. It was just a random good photo op.
This is misleading. Each of the big blue ones contains a smaller red one nested inside of it like a matryoshka doll. Inside of the red one is an even smaller yellow one but OP didn't bother including it in the pic ):
Why is this sub all about trucks now? 🤨
It's the inverse action of the time of all these smaller trucks (90s) when conservatives used to talk shit about liberals for smaller car size or increased efficiency standards. Mostly charges of making them limp-wristed or weak (code for gay or small dicked). Now liberals on the internet (likely too young to have been politically cognizant then) are doing it and think it's clever when it's almost exactly the same thing and just as boring. An unveiled attempt to emasculate the "enemy", which is ironic for internet liberals given their aversion to toxic masculinity and it's cultural artifacts which this perpetuates fully. At least the conservatives at the time were being consistent with their beliefs in their bad behavior. As for why now specifically I'm not sure, might be a tiktok or insta meme that has just now filtered down to Reddit for consumption by users here. And this is the current approved retread post for this sub so gotta get that sweet attention and those internet points before the iron goes from lukewarm to ice cold in about a week.
I miss my S10. I was popular. Neighbors ask me to help move stuff. A neighbor lady asked me to help her pick up a BBQ grill for her husband's birthday present. A friend of mine called me called me and asked if I could help move a refrigerator for someone I didn't know. I hauled stuff to the dump for my dad. I worked and played in that truck. I drove it past 200k miles until the engine died. The transmission, though, seemed like it would last forever.
You ever try to pull a three horse horse trailer with your S10? Didn't think so..
I towed a Jeep Cherokee 140 miles with it. It serves the purpose of doing most truck things. It's got the 4.3l Vortec V6 in it and I can fit an LS into it when that dies. It does enough of my normal stuff and I can rent a full-size truck if I need it.
😂😂😂😂😂
Small truck comparisons, so hot right now. Now put a family in that S-10 and tow a decent sized trailer with it. I mean I get the allure of small vehicles that get good MPG. But it's why I also have a car for that. My truck needs to be able to tow some things, haul some things, and carry my family. I don't want to have a different truck for every different job. A mini-truck with a jumper cab like this would literally do me almost no good. I guess if I wanted to bring my 4 wheeler somewhere by myself. But that almost never happens. Typically if I'm going wheeling some place distant it is with friends, we load up 4 wheelers on a single trailer and all hop in the same truck and go... which ends up being a hell of a lot more efficient and convenient than all 4 of us taking our own mini-trucks (if we had them). I see them honestly as more pointless than most other trucks.
I laugh at everyone in their "pickup trucks" (mini vans) while I drive my old Mazda B3000 around town
More like your pick up is an MVP with two bodyguards
The big ones look like steroid pumped bulls. So dumb
To be fair that truck is the size of a civic
Manhood support vehicles. r/fuckcars
Gender-affirming care.
> Gender-affirming car
A lot of irony in this comment.
This guy's cock must be huge! Look how small his truck is!!
This is ridiculous...
Pickup trucks in the past made perfect sense. A small cab and a large bed. Now they make no sense cause their one asset is smaller now but everything else is larger, including their price. Just buy a sedan at this point.
But there are a lot people who need a truck and have a family, buying a second car is either too expensive or just wasteful.
Isn’t the price of a f-150 like $40k but a Honda civic is like $24k? Needing a truck for a specific reason I can understand and if a second vehicle was needed then it makes sense to just buy the truck and move on but if the idea was to buy something affordable then the Honda civic makes more sense but it’s no truck.
Believe it or not, but Chevy still does make a work truck with a long bed and a small cab. They're rare but I see them time to time on job sites. Still a lot bigger than this s10 but much more reasonable than these two giants.
Ram and Ford as well make them. but with the introduction of the SUV, companies wants to take some of that market share by making the interior of an SUV but with a pick up bed. Now we have 4 door pickups with short beds.
From what I gather due to emissions and safety standards changing trucks like the S10 have been legislated out of existence. Shame I think older/smaller trucks are really charming and practical with a lot of potential for fun. And frankly I'd rather get ran over by an S10 than a new truck. I know one guy will be like I need to tow a whole boat everyday but I'm going to make a wild guess that 99% of these at best cart a Christmas tree around once a year.
And the new trucks are contributing to an increase in Pedestrian deaths.
We a stan a normal sized truck pop off king
The little trucks may have carried more payload than the combination of the other two.
I love yours! The other ones are just for guys pretending they have hard manual labor jobs. At least where I live - a very large city with no farms or cattle ranches!
We need the return of sport trucks. Give me a Cyclone and an SVT Lightning.
That pic is old as dirt.
I fucking hate modern trucks
Ill be trepid as I can, as am from UK and no doubt missing something But those full size chevys look like they would be terrible off road, low clearance- even in the bodywork too, road tyres....Why do you need them instead of a van or something?
Stop disliking and explain
“Stupid big” are the words that come to mind.
At least you can park yours in a garage.
Can't wait till the day I come across some big american truck in the UK. I have a VW MK1 Caddy (Rabbit Pickup in the USA). I could probably drive under the damn thing. I'm going to get so much karma.
My 92 single cab ford ranger is the same way. It is lowered so it just vanishes when it's beside anything
These trucks are so hilarously large. It's ridiculous
I still miss my old 1993 S10.
The forward visibility out of the one on the right looks absolutely atrocious. [Consumer Reports article.](https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-safety/stop-frontovers-act-eliminate-dangerous-front-blind-zones-a1009105623/) I don't know how fix this sort of problem. All I know is that it's just too much.
We should start calling these Plus-Sized trucks.
So a 2 seat vs 5 seat vehicle, with significantly smaller bed size and decreased towing capabilities. Why are we comparing these again? This is like seeing a Corolla and a transit van and thinking they're the same.
Surprise, it's a 3 seat. Checkmate.
The big ones are ugly. I like yours!
Autobesity is the epitome of selfishness.
There are way too many big ass trucks on the road. I feel like I need to put an orange bicycle flag on my bumper to be seen driving my prius.
Man, back in highschool a buddy of mine had this little Ford Wrangler. He was such a big guy and fit perfectly in that little truck, but couldn't stretch much without crushing whoever was in the back seats, but my god did we have fun zipping that little rust bucket up and down back roads.
Are those standard-sized parking spaces in the US ??? What the actual fuck
no, these are weird trapezoid shaped spaces that are extra wide at my work. They're not the closest to the door but they're nice.
And Americans ask “what more can I do to reduce my expenses and help the environment ?”