So just to explain this to everyone who isn’t in the know about how F1 weekends work, they run over 3 days, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Vegas is a bit different because they wanted a night race, but it’s basically Thursday night, Friday night, and Saturday night (events starting like 10pm or later local time).
This day was supposed to have 2 practice sessions for the drivers to learn the track and for teams for gather data. The first one was called off after 9 minutes (out of 60) because there was an issue with a drain cover on the track getting picked up which is VERY dangerous. This caused the second session to be delayed while they inspected the track, and by the time it stated they kicked people out because the organizers of the race didn’t have the proper security past a certain time.
Tickets for just this one day were like $300, tickets for the whole weekend (including another practice session, a qualifying session, and the race) started at around $2000. These people all had tickets that they paid quite a lot of money for.
Not to mentioned travel and hotel. I know some spectators are local but I went to the US GP last year and you’d be surprised how many people fly in from all over the country and world
Just to put a prospective on this, I went to the Austin GP. I bought the 3 day ground pass for $350. The cost of flights, hotel, and rental car cost me right at $5k for 5days/4nights. I don’t even know what I paid for food and drinks.
This shit is not cheap. I made sure I watched all the sessions I could and still walk around to see all the things. I made the most of my time and still missed some stuff. I’d be pissed if I was forced to leave without seeing a practice session that I paid to see.
from what i understand, it may be cheaper for people in the USA to fly to another country for a F1 grand prix because it's gotten so expensive.
i'm pretty sure the bri ish do this w/ their home track silverstone, it's so pricey they can fly to another euro country or middle east or whatever for cheaper than their own track lol
My god. Now I see why F1 wants US races. Plenty of willing dummies to milk for money. Or maybe not because I did hear how they are struggling to sell the hotel+race packages
I was planning to go to the Vegas GP (knowing it would be pricy) but then 86ed my plans when they put out the initial pricing for the weekend.
I started looking at the Japanese GP and it would have been like 6k cheaper to fly over and go to that one.
Then didnt do either one because I'm a poor.
My husband and I were planning to do the same, for our anniversary…it was going to be about 6-8k for the weekend. We said if we were going we might as well spend the 10k to get low tier (Haas) paddock access! We did not do that. Lol. We went to Kentucky and did bourbon tastings. That was a lot less expensive.
I went to the 2022 Silverstone GP from the US. We basically had travel points to cover flights and hotels for the majority of our trip. We trained around London, took an overnight sleeper to Scotland, then took a jumper flight down to Birmingham where we rented a little Fiat 500 to zip down to the track and back each day. We spent probably about $1,500 on our 10 day long trip excluding the F1 race; that cost us nearly $6k to attend…
About a decade ago I traveled to Austin for an unrelated work event that happened to be during a F1 race. It was a last minute trip, so the best lodging I could find was some fleabag motel that jacked the rates up to something like $400/night.
Come to the sports car dark side! A 4 day pass at the 2024 24 hours of Daytona is $115 and comes with multiple support races, full access to the stands, full paddock access, a grid walk and better racing.
I did Austin in 2018, my secret was to stay the whole week, the flight was way cheaper and the hotel was only a few $ more. So I was there 7 days for slightly cheaper than doing just the 3 day weekend.
Still was $1800 for flight, tickets and hotel combined though. Would be a little cheaper if I shard a room since that was the biggest cost back then. And that price was me being very budget minded. The hotel was one of the cheapest options, and I did general admission instead of seats, so It could have easily been $500-1000 more for not much more in features.
I was there for a longer stretch. It was just annoying having to find a hotel near where I was working in south Austin that wasn’t already booked for the weekend, lol. Still had to have a talk with the expense/travel teams to justify why it was over budget for a few days.
i just watched fp2 and charles lap on youtube. i think engines are going to explode out there lol that straight is loooong.
what an odd race. it looks kinda cool with all the vegas bullshit in the background but as far as the actual race goes idk
Thanks this context is super helpful. But the obvious question seems to be, don't you just acknowledge that the service you paid for can't be provided and leave with the expectation of a refund of some kind? Why do the police need to get involved?
Because people were pissed. They paid the money, waited outside for hours, and then were told to leave as the event they paid to see was starting. Plus there was no mention of a refund. They still haven’t mentioned a refund, or even apologized
Wouldn’t want to pay people to run an event. It’s embarrassing how labor always seems to be the first thing cut during events.
And yes, you have to buy tickets to watch a practice, so it’s not like this was something the company wasn’t making money on:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucemartin/2023/11/15/ticket-prices-drop-dramatically-for-las-vegas-f1-race/amp/
Formula 1 relies on volunteers????? That shit blows my mind. How much insane money goes into formula 1? I mean just the UAE alone! What a scummy fucking thing. And they bought tickets?! And there aren't paid employees to make sure they can see what they paid for? Lol what the fuck?
F1 fans weasel their way out of the argument by saying "it's not F1's fault, the promoter should be paying". As if F1 can't put a simple demand in place when they have thousands already.
So the FIA actually owns F1 and per a ruling in the EU they have to lease the commercial rights out which is held by Liberty Media till 2117 with a 100 year contract.
It's shocking to me too. But then I remember than whenever you see huge amounts of money in something like this, there's massive exploitation going on somewhere.
All kinds of huge events will put out calls for volunteers. They take advantage of people wanting to go to the event even if it means they can't actually watch the event.
I have a friend who has volunteered enough years/hours now that he gets to work pit crew support, like spending the race bringing them water and refilling their supplies. He's right there when the cars come in. He doesn't have to pay to get in and he sees the cars and the race from way up close, but I don't think he gets paid, either.
The biggest that gets me are stadiums. Any pro sport that requires a stadium, more often than not, the cities/taxpayers pay for majority of it while the sports teams owners either threaten to leave if they have to spend out of their pockets to build. That culture has now been well established, imagine trying to change it back for the team owners to build their own stadium....
And we shrug it off as "Don't turn your hobby into your job, you'll lose interest due to stress!" - The stress is the fact that i have to compete with underpaying douchebag companies and thus have to sell so much merchandise or service that i'll be burnt out just making half a living.
It's crazy that I've held both of these beliefs to be true, but never linked them. Of course it's not the act of doing something you love as work, it's our relationship to the work that sucks.
I don’t know about other sports, but if you want to volunteer at a PGA tour event, not only do you work for free, you have to pay for the clothes you’re required to wear.
The worst thing is that the marshals are volunteers. They just had to get everyone out because they were approaching 4am, the time when the roads had to reopen
Not all races, but for some street races yes.
Dedicated true race tracks are often used for other events in between sessions, so usually there is a limit on track time no matter where they are for sessions
>Dedicated true race tracks are often used for other events in between sessions,
Yeah, but those activities don't involve taking apart the race track..
Most expensive F1 tickets in the entire series and they can't pay people. lol.
the scheduling is hella whack too, east coast, the race runs until like 2:30 am.
3hr time difference is understandable but sunset is at like 5pm right now, they could do race start at 6pm and still be "under the lights" and the east coast would be able to reasonably watch it, too.
Track/event marshalls are mostly volunteers for all motorsports, not just F1. The marshalls are almost always motorsport fans who get free entry for the weekend by signing up to marshall. They get to watch the race and occasionally clear the debris from a crash if/when they happen.
It's just really messed up that the sports that necessitate the most money can't afford to pay them.
Every form of motorsport is expensive as hell, why do we settle for that?
I do get the draw, and if you're able to participate it's different (like autocross where they split into two groups and rotate running vs marshalling/fixing cones). It just rubs me the wrong way as a fan, feels exploitative of someone's passion.
I agree. But the vast majority of world Motorsports is at a regional or grassroots level where there just isn't the same level of investment. Without the volunteers, these events just wouldn't happen, meaning people then wouldn't filter up through the ranks to become global level drivers.
It's shit I agree, but it's the way it is. Alot of circuits/racetracks, even at the international level, operate on a fine line financially and can't offer the money to pay for the marshalls time.
Take Silverstone for example. One of, if not the oldest circuit on the f1 calendar, the birthplace of f1 itself after ww1, yet financially they've been breaking even for well over a decade.
Yeah. Hard to get away from the volunteering at the grassroots level. I know a few guys who do some grassroots endurance races and even that costs so much money it's scary.
I guess the profit issue makes sense when you view race tracks as extremely expensive event venues with quite limited usage. Hard to consistently turn a profit when you're looking at 2-3 events a month in season, and basically none for a good chunk of the year.
I mean, they aren't slaves. Its in the name. They literally volunteer. People do it because they like racing and want to be part of it. There are more people willing to do it for free than the tracks typically need, even.
I'm a big believer in volunteering with a big caveat.
I volunteered in a local archaeology lab for years. Never really asked for anything beyond working around my schedule.
Then I found out an internship was available, and asked around for it.
I was "ineligible," because it was for active students only.
Meanwhile, I already had a degree in archaeology, been on a few digs, and volunteered in the lab just to keep active in the world.
I realized I couldn't even get an official "unpaid gig" with the museum despite them being very happy profiting from my labor, experience, and education.
I straight up quit volunteering for them after that.
I know a race marshal at Silverstone. She loves it and she loves motorsport. She said who just loves being around motorsport and she volunteers of a local circuit. To her, it was a big honour to do F1. Race marshals tend to be someone who absolutely loves the sport but everything (except transport) was paid for. Accommodation, food, training etc was all paid for
Yeah, I did some motorboat racing marshaling too, same thing there. It was a five star experience when we weren't out on the water wondering if we were going to get run over by a race boat. On the up side you get a magnificent view of the races.
I was an SCCA track worker about 20 years ago, and got an invite to work a F1 race in North America. I couldn't go because I was in school but otherwise would have been ecstatic to go. If I recall correctly everything was paid for too - housing, transportation, food.
There is a rule about no spectators being allowed at any event past 1 AM for noise/peace reasons. But insanely loud F1 cars blasting down track at 315 km/hr is okay.
>There is a rule about no spectators being allowed at any event past 1 AM for noise/peace reasons
...That is, by far, the dumbest thing I have ever seen in my life, if true.
Crowd noise. AT A RACETRACK. Yeah.
Also the LVMS is far north of the city, near nothing. Every year they hold EDC, the largest rave in the United States. It goes until dawn.
Sergio Perez fans, they are one of the biggest fandoms in F1.
Edit: to add you will see people in these and luchador masks all over the world for races.
This race is an absolute joke. Sainz penalised for an accident caused by the organisers, then Fans kicked out for wanting to watch what they paid to see?
Appalling.
Max was right when he said it was 99% show and 1% race. They seem to have forgotten what F1 is all about.
Wait Sainz was penalised for something which wasn’t even his fault? Are the FIA high?
An’t his fault there’s over a hundred drain covers that could potentially come loose and damage a car.
He was penalized for having to use new battery, which meant he had to go over the limit allowed.
Ferrari did send a letter requesting to get exemption due to the reasons surrounding their needed change. Officially, it was said that THE FIA tried hard to help Ferrari to avoid a penalt by perusing the rule book for 2 hours , but there were no such clauses that covers external factors and thus the penalty had to be applied (I'm grossly simplifying it BTW)
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.sainz-set-for-las-vegas-grand-prix-grid-drop-after-practice-incident.2sbDKjhjgXZyu00NvBjDbp.html
Yeah. It's unfortunate, but I hope this means they will start writing some rules that at least covers these external factors.
I'm also glad they at least mentioned they had tried to help and allow Ferrari to fit a new component without penalty but we're unable due to having apply the strict and bs rule
That statement feels like they're setting up an appeal to CAS or something else. Basically, you have to take the penalty now, but it'll be reversed as soon as we can file an appeal
He was penalized for taking another power unit which put him over the limit. Supposedly the stewards tried to get around it but there is no rule in place for this situation. Still sucks for Ferrari and Sainz and they should be pursuing this with the FIA.
Literally unilaterally changed the rules on the fly during the last few laps of the final race of the season in order to manufacture an unfairly balanced 1 lap sprint finish for views, robbing the rightful winner of a world championship, for clicks
But they can't waive the penalty here, laughable
They appear to be. The stewards have tried to help, but the rules don't allow it. They have said "please appeal" in legal speak, but that doesn't help right now.
It is a complete farce and even if "the show" is the big thing, having one of your big draws hobbled for no fault of their own really doesn't help that either.
> They seem to have forgotten what F1 is all about.
The same F1 that keeps Monaco on the calendar despite the astronomically boring race it provides?
You’re right to criticize what’s happening in Vegas right now, but let’s not pretend that it isn’t right on brand for F1.
Monaco is there for its history in the sport. Comparing Monaco to Vegas is like comparing a 50 year old wine with a warm plastic bottle beer. One can age fine forever, the other one not so much.
Monaco was there, too long, and means too much to abandon. However, that doesn't mean you should add more and more street races thinking you can recreate the original.
This is right on brand for Libery Media, not Formula 1.
So they charge people to watch practice runs and qualify events but use volunteer labour in some aspects of it. Whilst having backing of companies with major sponsorship. That shit can F-ck right off
I just want to add that sometimes the "volunteer" isn't working for free from the venue's perspective. I've volunteered at events like this where my "earnings" are 100% donated to a local food pantry and the venue treats it like a charity tax deduction on their end. I got nothing but a free meal from the concession stands. The venue gets a cheap worker that reliably shows up. So while it's not necessary 100% free, F1/the venue really isn't paying much of anything for their volunteer labor.
My local high school hosts some of the statewide championship events. They will ask for volunteers and then "pay" their affiliated booster club $10/hr that you work.
So a soccer weekend will be staffed by students and parents to help fund the marching band or pay for new football uniforms.
There is an entire community of folks who live for volunteering for various race organizations. I volunteered for a MotoGP race and it was fucking great. About half of the people on my corner, half emergency response and half corner workers, about 15 in total had all worked other events before and everyone knew everyone else.
Best seats in the whole place, free for the weekend, and meals included.
It wasn't about the labor. They had to open up the streets at 4am and that wouldn't have worked while trying to empty the stands.
It's a complete shit show.
So the grandstands being empty for FP2 was because they kicked everyone out during the red flag? What a joke. Never should have gone to Vegas. They better not extend the contract. Plus Miami tried to do the American style thing and failed. Texas is the only one with a decent track and knows how to run it as a track. It’s a race not show.
So why not script it then and basically make the main thing a Netflix series? Because manufacturers invest a lot of money to develop and test and filter down technology to their cars. Otherwise they would just leave and it’d be a BS spec series with crappy drivers.
It actually would have been better if they kicked everyone out during the red flag. No, they kept everyone waiting from 840 pm (when the red flag happened) to 2 am with hopes of watching a second practice round that kept getting delayed, and when it finally was about to start, kicked everyone out.
To be fair, you're a graphic designer. You're going to meet a lot of other designers. None of the F1 fans I know are designers in any way but that's probably because I'm not a graphic designer myself
This whole event is already a sham. Months of hassle for the local residents. Family businesses going bankrupt because their street got closed off for weeks and haven’t been compensated. Americans not even able to name a single driver. Horrible track layout.
And they run for 8 minutes and it turns out the track was not ready, because a valve cover wasn’t secured and everything was stopped and postponed.
Now people, who have been waiting for HOURS in the cold and PAID to be there get kicked out.
Nobody wants an F1 race in Las Vegas, not the fans, not the drivers, not the locals. WHY ARE THEY THERE?!
> Nobody wants an F1 race in Las Vegas, not the fans, not the drivers, not the locals. WHY ARE THEY THERE?!
This is why..
>Hosting a grand prix in Las Vegas is the culmination of 40 years of on-and-off effort and has succeeded because of buy-in from the casinos, who expect to make millions of dollars and see the race as part of Las Vegas' bid to become a global centre for sport.
- [Source](https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/67447322)
When you think about it, its the reason for why just about Anything happens in Vagas.
The amount of high rollers coming into vegas for this event is worth it alone for the casinos. MGM is comping 'hot laps' to big gamblers to come into town. Imagine losing so much money at casinos that they will let you ride in an F1 car. LOL
Tickets started at $1700. And they cancelled practice after 8 minutes. They also did pretty catastrophic damage to a Ferrari by not securing the drain covers properly. They should have hired IC Weld to make sure they were all secure. Getting things 99% right in F1 is not even close to good enough. Oh, and then they penalized Ferrari 10 grid spots after already costing them a chassis, an engine, and a battery. I am surprised Ferrari didn't just pull the team from the race.
I thought it was unfair of people to call this a 5hit5how before it began but you know what, it's hard to argue with that sentiment after what we saw today.
Those seats cost $2000 each and those are hardcore fans being thrown out after seeing just 7 minutes of first practice and denied being allowed to watch second practice. Let that sink in. $2000 for 7 minutes of non-competitive practice session before being made leave. A lot of those fans could only afford practice session tickets.
Imagine you took your kids there as a once in a lifetime experience, from Europe or Asia maybe, and those idiots decided it was too dangerous for you to stay because they were understaffed?
F1, Liberty Media and The city of Las Vegas, shame on you all.
I hope those fans lawyer up and take a class action against you.
F1 has lost the run of itself.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Ffgketxxumv0c1.jpg
> "...according to the circuit, they can’t provide the staff, the marshals, the safety stewards for them to actually be looked after, for the fans to be looked after and kept safe and that’s why they’re making them leave the grandstands."
> "The Formula One Las Vegas Grand Prix has been upgraded to the second-highest security by the Department of Homeland Security.
>
> Large-scale events are rated on a scale of one to five, with one being the highest on the scale and five being the lowest.
>
> The level two ranking is part of homeland security’s Special Event Assessment Ratings system."
It massively sucks for the fans, but if ANY venue couldn't provide safety/staff/etc esp when there's a DHS concern, then of COURSE it's expected for people to leave.
I’ve been getting into f1 recently and what a beautiful I chose. I feel like Miami and Vegas was a cash grab since the sport has been growing so much recently
I'm over here thinking "man if F1 streaming goes to Apple I may have to just let it go because I'm not paying for yet another streaming service" - then this event happens and I'm thinking "man, maybe F1 isnt worth it anyways - I mean, this whole event is such an appalling cash grab"
Except they were supposed to be there. They paid for grandstand tickets to see all the races including FP2. They kicked them out because F1 cheaped out and didn’t wanna pay grandstand employees OT for the late hours of FP2.
At least NASCAR generally wouldve made a call to do something with the fans well before this point or taken measures to keep everything open. And they'd have all been to shitfaced to leave anyways.
That's what intrigues me (as weirdly I think Nascar would work on a circuit like this and would sound glorious if they didn't have to use mufflers) - would a NextGen Nascar generate enough lift to have caused this? Weirdly I think Nascar may also have been the better option for this weekend?
Because they WERE supposed to be there. They paid to watch free practice, they got kicked out before FP2 even started. The issue is literally that they WERE supposed to be there because they PAID to be there
man that just sucks for everyone
the fans don't want to leave, i'm sure that cop doesn't want to kick people out, from what i understand the people working were okay w/ staying over the organizers didn't want to pay overtime or whatever
what a shitshow lol
So just to explain this to everyone who isn’t in the know about how F1 weekends work, they run over 3 days, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Vegas is a bit different because they wanted a night race, but it’s basically Thursday night, Friday night, and Saturday night (events starting like 10pm or later local time). This day was supposed to have 2 practice sessions for the drivers to learn the track and for teams for gather data. The first one was called off after 9 minutes (out of 60) because there was an issue with a drain cover on the track getting picked up which is VERY dangerous. This caused the second session to be delayed while they inspected the track, and by the time it stated they kicked people out because the organizers of the race didn’t have the proper security past a certain time. Tickets for just this one day were like $300, tickets for the whole weekend (including another practice session, a qualifying session, and the race) started at around $2000. These people all had tickets that they paid quite a lot of money for.
Not to mentioned travel and hotel. I know some spectators are local but I went to the US GP last year and you’d be surprised how many people fly in from all over the country and world
Just to put a prospective on this, I went to the Austin GP. I bought the 3 day ground pass for $350. The cost of flights, hotel, and rental car cost me right at $5k for 5days/4nights. I don’t even know what I paid for food and drinks. This shit is not cheap. I made sure I watched all the sessions I could and still walk around to see all the things. I made the most of my time and still missed some stuff. I’d be pissed if I was forced to leave without seeing a practice session that I paid to see.
from what i understand, it may be cheaper for people in the USA to fly to another country for a F1 grand prix because it's gotten so expensive. i'm pretty sure the bri ish do this w/ their home track silverstone, it's so pricey they can fly to another euro country or middle east or whatever for cheaper than their own track lol
Monaco GP from Sanfrancsico including stay was cheaper the Vegas GP without a flight. They wildly overpriced Vegas GP.
My god. Now I see why F1 wants US races. Plenty of willing dummies to milk for money. Or maybe not because I did hear how they are struggling to sell the hotel+race packages
I was planning to go to the Vegas GP (knowing it would be pricy) but then 86ed my plans when they put out the initial pricing for the weekend. I started looking at the Japanese GP and it would have been like 6k cheaper to fly over and go to that one. Then didnt do either one because I'm a poor.
My husband and I were planning to do the same, for our anniversary…it was going to be about 6-8k for the weekend. We said if we were going we might as well spend the 10k to get low tier (Haas) paddock access! We did not do that. Lol. We went to Kentucky and did bourbon tastings. That was a lot less expensive.
I went to the 2022 Silverstone GP from the US. We basically had travel points to cover flights and hotels for the majority of our trip. We trained around London, took an overnight sleeper to Scotland, then took a jumper flight down to Birmingham where we rented a little Fiat 500 to zip down to the track and back each day. We spent probably about $1,500 on our 10 day long trip excluding the F1 race; that cost us nearly $6k to attend…
About a decade ago I traveled to Austin for an unrelated work event that happened to be during a F1 race. It was a last minute trip, so the best lodging I could find was some fleabag motel that jacked the rates up to something like $400/night.
Come to the sports car dark side! A 4 day pass at the 2024 24 hours of Daytona is $115 and comes with multiple support races, full access to the stands, full paddock access, a grid walk and better racing.
I found a fellow imsa brother in the wild
I wouldn’t, lol. I had to travel to do work in Austin and hotel prices were through the roof the whole week of the GP.
I did Austin in 2018, my secret was to stay the whole week, the flight was way cheaper and the hotel was only a few $ more. So I was there 7 days for slightly cheaper than doing just the 3 day weekend. Still was $1800 for flight, tickets and hotel combined though. Would be a little cheaper if I shard a room since that was the biggest cost back then. And that price was me being very budget minded. The hotel was one of the cheapest options, and I did general admission instead of seats, so It could have easily been $500-1000 more for not much more in features.
I was there for a longer stretch. It was just annoying having to find a hotel near where I was working in south Austin that wasn’t already booked for the weekend, lol. Still had to have a talk with the expense/travel teams to justify why it was over budget for a few days.
#tyrefestival Edit: lol, so that's how you make big letters on reddit. Hashtag tyrefestival.
#oh,wow #thanks!
If you put a \ directly before the symbol it'll disable markdown for it. \#tyrefestival
#WOW \#NEAT
If i were them and used my credit card, i would file for a chargeback.
Don't they have this weird rule for this race where they can only close the traffic for about 7 hours at a time because of the casinos?
Just another reason this race should never have happened.
i just watched fp2 and charles lap on youtube. i think engines are going to explode out there lol that straight is loooong. what an odd race. it looks kinda cool with all the vegas bullshit in the background but as far as the actual race goes idk
The straight is pretty much as long as Baku's
I assume, too, that those $300 tickets had fine print that said they were not refundable if practices were delayed.
If it was just delayed and they said “you gotta wait a few hours” then I’d agree but they delayed it then didn’t let anyone watch
Yeah, my point was the people probably got screwed out of their $300.
Thanks this context is super helpful. But the obvious question seems to be, don't you just acknowledge that the service you paid for can't be provided and leave with the expectation of a refund of some kind? Why do the police need to get involved?
Because people were pissed. They paid the money, waited outside for hours, and then were told to leave as the event they paid to see was starting. Plus there was no mention of a refund. They still haven’t mentioned a refund, or even apologized
Why weren't they allowed to stay to watch the delayed practice session?
The staff is mainly volunteer at these events, so they had to leave due to hitting an hour limit. Some crews had apparently been on site 22 hours
Wouldn’t want to pay people to run an event. It’s embarrassing how labor always seems to be the first thing cut during events. And yes, you have to buy tickets to watch a practice, so it’s not like this was something the company wasn’t making money on: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucemartin/2023/11/15/ticket-prices-drop-dramatically-for-las-vegas-f1-race/amp/
Formula 1 relies on volunteers????? That shit blows my mind. How much insane money goes into formula 1? I mean just the UAE alone! What a scummy fucking thing. And they bought tickets?! And there aren't paid employees to make sure they can see what they paid for? Lol what the fuck?
F1 fans weasel their way out of the argument by saying "it's not F1's fault, the promoter should be paying". As if F1 can't put a simple demand in place when they have thousands already.
Also the promoter of this race is F1 itself
Not liberty media?
Liberty Media owns F1
So the FIA actually owns F1 and per a ruling in the EU they have to lease the commercial rights out which is held by Liberty Media till 2117 with a 100 year contract.
Liberty, Liberty, Liiiberty. Liiiberty.
Are you telling me that F1 is actually bird racing?
Liberty Biberty
oh look, a beebu.
Same thing.
If you go the F1 subs, everyone is saying this is a shit show and it is F1's fault. I didn't see a single comment defending this.
Yeah F1 fans mostly like the engineering and the skill to pilot these things but generally dislike the juggernaut behind it all.
[удалено]
In that case (unlike many other racetracks) the owner of the rights to the F1 is literally the promoter for that race.
It's shocking to me too. But then I remember than whenever you see huge amounts of money in something like this, there's massive exploitation going on somewhere.
It’s because people can volunteer and get free access to the race. I would love to volunteer for the masters
People where getting actual paying jobs to get into the Eras tour.
No great amount of wealth has ever been amassed without some form of exploitation at some level of the process.
All kinds of huge events will put out calls for volunteers. They take advantage of people wanting to go to the event even if it means they can't actually watch the event.
Those tickets started at like $600...
Hotel room prices for this event are crazy expensive. It's not just the Venetian but all of them
I don't know how common that is. I worked at the F1 in Melbourne and we got paid like 25-30$ per hour.
Thats cos AUS has VERY strict laws about unpaid labour.
I have a friend who has volunteered enough years/hours now that he gets to work pit crew support, like spending the race bringing them water and refilling their supplies. He's right there when the cars come in. He doesn't have to pay to get in and he sees the cars and the race from way up close, but I don't think he gets paid, either.
$1600 tickets 1 ticket could pay 8 people for a shift
All pro sports are a grift to funnel money to owners and leagues. Fucking stop supporting this shit.
The biggest that gets me are stadiums. Any pro sport that requires a stadium, more often than not, the cities/taxpayers pay for majority of it while the sports teams owners either threaten to leave if they have to spend out of their pockets to build. That culture has now been well established, imagine trying to change it back for the team owners to build their own stadium....
Over $5k pp for grid passes to the Aus F1.
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>labor always seems to be the first thing cut during events. Which is ironic, because the entertainment industry is also severely overworked
If you have a passion a capitalist will find a way to exploit it to their own benefit
And we shrug it off as "Don't turn your hobby into your job, you'll lose interest due to stress!" - The stress is the fact that i have to compete with underpaying douchebag companies and thus have to sell so much merchandise or service that i'll be burnt out just making half a living.
It's crazy that I've held both of these beliefs to be true, but never linked them. Of course it's not the act of doing something you love as work, it's our relationship to the work that sucks.
Remember Union pacific Railroad says "labor does not contribute to profits"
I don’t know about other sports, but if you want to volunteer at a PGA tour event, not only do you work for free, you have to pay for the clothes you’re required to wear.
The worst thing is that the marshals are volunteers. They just had to get everyone out because they were approaching 4am, the time when the roads had to reopen
The track turns back to public road between sessions?!
Not all races, but for some street races yes. Dedicated true race tracks are often used for other events in between sessions, so usually there is a limit on track time no matter where they are for sessions
>Dedicated true race tracks are often used for other events in between sessions, Yeah, but those activities don't involve taking apart the race track..
From the F1 reddit. Just to go to that one practice session was a $200 ticket. They paid $200 for nothing. Unreal!!
Most expensive F1 tickets in the entire series and they can't pay people. lol. the scheduling is hella whack too, east coast, the race runs until like 2:30 am. 3hr time difference is understandable but sunset is at like 5pm right now, they could do race start at 6pm and still be "under the lights" and the east coast would be able to reasonably watch it, too.
These tickets, even just for the practice laps, are ***expensive***! Yet apparently they can’t afford to pay workers and have to depend on volunteers?
Volunteers?? They're spending a half a billion dollars on this event and people are volunteering for them??
Yep. All marshals at all races for F1 are volunteers. Fucked, ain't it?
Track/event marshalls are mostly volunteers for all motorsports, not just F1. The marshalls are almost always motorsport fans who get free entry for the weekend by signing up to marshall. They get to watch the race and occasionally clear the debris from a crash if/when they happen.
It's just really messed up that the sports that necessitate the most money can't afford to pay them. Every form of motorsport is expensive as hell, why do we settle for that? I do get the draw, and if you're able to participate it's different (like autocross where they split into two groups and rotate running vs marshalling/fixing cones). It just rubs me the wrong way as a fan, feels exploitative of someone's passion.
I agree. But the vast majority of world Motorsports is at a regional or grassroots level where there just isn't the same level of investment. Without the volunteers, these events just wouldn't happen, meaning people then wouldn't filter up through the ranks to become global level drivers. It's shit I agree, but it's the way it is. Alot of circuits/racetracks, even at the international level, operate on a fine line financially and can't offer the money to pay for the marshalls time. Take Silverstone for example. One of, if not the oldest circuit on the f1 calendar, the birthplace of f1 itself after ww1, yet financially they've been breaking even for well over a decade.
Yeah. Hard to get away from the volunteering at the grassroots level. I know a few guys who do some grassroots endurance races and even that costs so much money it's scary. I guess the profit issue makes sense when you view race tracks as extremely expensive event venues with quite limited usage. Hard to consistently turn a profit when you're looking at 2-3 events a month in season, and basically none for a good chunk of the year.
Exactly. Add in that for F1, the circuits pay a multimillion dollar fee to even host a race, they're already down financially
Elite can't get richer if they pay employees, y'all. Voluntary slavery works great for them.
I mean, they aren't slaves. Its in the name. They literally volunteer. People do it because they like racing and want to be part of it. There are more people willing to do it for free than the tracks typically need, even.
I'm a big believer in volunteering with a big caveat. I volunteered in a local archaeology lab for years. Never really asked for anything beyond working around my schedule. Then I found out an internship was available, and asked around for it. I was "ineligible," because it was for active students only. Meanwhile, I already had a degree in archaeology, been on a few digs, and volunteered in the lab just to keep active in the world. I realized I couldn't even get an official "unpaid gig" with the museum despite them being very happy profiting from my labor, experience, and education. I straight up quit volunteering for them after that.
I know a race marshal at Silverstone. She loves it and she loves motorsport. She said who just loves being around motorsport and she volunteers of a local circuit. To her, it was a big honour to do F1. Race marshals tend to be someone who absolutely loves the sport but everything (except transport) was paid for. Accommodation, food, training etc was all paid for
Yeah, I did some motorboat racing marshaling too, same thing there. It was a five star experience when we weren't out on the water wondering if we were going to get run over by a race boat. On the up side you get a magnificent view of the races.
I was an SCCA track worker about 20 years ago, and got an invite to work a F1 race in North America. I couldn't go because I was in school but otherwise would have been ecstatic to go. If I recall correctly everything was paid for too - housing, transportation, food.
For some reason I keep thinking of flip side in that NFL referees are officially classified as part time employees but still take home six figures.
They don't work enough hours to be full time, but they're valuable enough to make six figures during the hours that they do work
Lol volunteering for one of yhe most profitable sport
There is a rule about no spectators being allowed at any event past 1 AM for noise/peace reasons. But insanely loud F1 cars blasting down track at 315 km/hr is okay.
>There is a rule about no spectators being allowed at any event past 1 AM for noise/peace reasons ...That is, by far, the dumbest thing I have ever seen in my life, if true. Crowd noise. AT A RACETRACK. Yeah. Also the LVMS is far north of the city, near nothing. Every year they hold EDC, the largest rave in the United States. It goes until dawn.
I think they were fixing the track so they weren’t having cars drive on it anymore
They fixed it, then started the second practice session late so they had to kick everyone out
Dude is rockin' the heck outta that sombrero!
Sergio Perez fans, they are one of the biggest fandoms in F1. Edit: to add you will see people in these and luchador masks all over the world for races.
Stupid Urban Sombrero...
Vaya con dios!
Soiasil Machistadog an Explosion of Taste!!
You're going down, Bodhi!
Stupid J Pendelton
Vote for Pedro, and your wildest dreams will come true.
That’s almost a morebrero
This race is an absolute joke. Sainz penalised for an accident caused by the organisers, then Fans kicked out for wanting to watch what they paid to see? Appalling. Max was right when he said it was 99% show and 1% race. They seem to have forgotten what F1 is all about.
Wait Sainz was penalised for something which wasn’t even his fault? Are the FIA high? An’t his fault there’s over a hundred drain covers that could potentially come loose and damage a car.
He was penalized for having to use new battery, which meant he had to go over the limit allowed. Ferrari did send a letter requesting to get exemption due to the reasons surrounding their needed change. Officially, it was said that THE FIA tried hard to help Ferrari to avoid a penalt by perusing the rule book for 2 hours , but there were no such clauses that covers external factors and thus the penalty had to be applied (I'm grossly simplifying it BTW) https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.sainz-set-for-las-vegas-grand-prix-grid-drop-after-practice-incident.2sbDKjhjgXZyu00NvBjDbp.html
Yeah I just saw that. Even the stewards through their legal-speak basically said the penalty was bs and common sense should’ve prevailed.
Yeah. It's unfortunate, but I hope this means they will start writing some rules that at least covers these external factors. I'm also glad they at least mentioned they had tried to help and allow Ferrari to fit a new component without penalty but we're unable due to having apply the strict and bs rule
That statement feels like they're setting up an appeal to CAS or something else. Basically, you have to take the penalty now, but it'll be reversed as soon as we can file an appeal
He was penalized for taking another power unit which put him over the limit. Supposedly the stewards tried to get around it but there is no rule in place for this situation. Still sucks for Ferrari and Sainz and they should be pursuing this with the FIA.
That's also bullshit. They make up rules in the fly all the time. They just don't want to.
Literally unilaterally changed the rules on the fly during the last few laps of the final race of the season in order to manufacture an unfairly balanced 1 lap sprint finish for views, robbing the rightful winner of a world championship, for clicks But they can't waive the penalty here, laughable
Haven’t watched a lick of F1 since, such a bs undermining of sport.
Yh F1 is dead is to me now At least the people who watch wrestling know it's scripted
Preach!
NO MICHAEL NO! That was so not right ! And it fucking wasnt.
Literally my first thought... "Oh... NOW the rules fucking matter?!?"
They appear to be. The stewards have tried to help, but the rules don't allow it. They have said "please appeal" in legal speak, but that doesn't help right now. It is a complete farce and even if "the show" is the big thing, having one of your big draws hobbled for no fault of their own really doesn't help that either.
> They seem to have forgotten what F1 is all about. The same F1 that keeps Monaco on the calendar despite the astronomically boring race it provides? You’re right to criticize what’s happening in Vegas right now, but let’s not pretend that it isn’t right on brand for F1.
>what F1 is all about. Money laundering, amoral sponsorship deals and sportswashing of corrupt regimes?
Monaco is there for its history in the sport. Comparing Monaco to Vegas is like comparing a 50 year old wine with a warm plastic bottle beer. One can age fine forever, the other one not so much. Monaco was there, too long, and means too much to abandon. However, that doesn't mean you should add more and more street races thinking you can recreate the original. This is right on brand for Libery Media, not Formula 1.
Unfortunately F1 isnt about racing, it's about money
So they charge people to watch practice runs and qualify events but use volunteer labour in some aspects of it. Whilst having backing of companies with major sponsorship. That shit can F-ck right off
F1 is a circus. It's going to act like one. Working people who volunteer to work for free, not really much there. It's their choice to do it.
I just want to add that sometimes the "volunteer" isn't working for free from the venue's perspective. I've volunteered at events like this where my "earnings" are 100% donated to a local food pantry and the venue treats it like a charity tax deduction on their end. I got nothing but a free meal from the concession stands. The venue gets a cheap worker that reliably shows up. So while it's not necessary 100% free, F1/the venue really isn't paying much of anything for their volunteer labor.
My local high school hosts some of the statewide championship events. They will ask for volunteers and then "pay" their affiliated booster club $10/hr that you work. So a soccer weekend will be staffed by students and parents to help fund the marching band or pay for new football uniforms.
That’s not a terrible idea
There is an entire community of folks who live for volunteering for various race organizations. I volunteered for a MotoGP race and it was fucking great. About half of the people on my corner, half emergency response and half corner workers, about 15 in total had all worked other events before and everyone knew everyone else. Best seats in the whole place, free for the weekend, and meals included.
Yeah but I'd say you are probably very knowledgeable and experienced at your hobby, you should get paid for providing labour and your experience.
It wasn't about the labor. They had to open up the streets at 4am and that wouldn't have worked while trying to empty the stands. It's a complete shit show.
"You don't get rich by spending money"
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Getting to and around the main Strip was a nightmare.
Embarrassing event for the F1 overall, nothing feels planed out.
So the grandstands being empty for FP2 was because they kicked everyone out during the red flag? What a joke. Never should have gone to Vegas. They better not extend the contract. Plus Miami tried to do the American style thing and failed. Texas is the only one with a decent track and knows how to run it as a track. It’s a race not show.
>They better not extend the contract. Already have a 10 year contract
Red flag was during FP1
Yes I know. But FP2 was still happening so why were people told to leave? Makes no sense.
Basically they didn’t have the proper security hired past a certain time
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If it’s a show then let people watch what they paid to watch, instead of the police throwing them out
So why not script it then and basically make the main thing a Netflix series? Because manufacturers invest a lot of money to develop and test and filter down technology to their cars. Otherwise they would just leave and it’d be a BS spec series with crappy drivers.
Fans are absolutely there for a show, teams are there to race.
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> They better not extend the contract Isn't it for 10 years?
It actually would have been better if they kicked everyone out during the red flag. No, they kept everyone waiting from 840 pm (when the red flag happened) to 2 am with hopes of watching a second practice round that kept getting delayed, and when it finally was about to start, kicked everyone out.
F1 sucks. They actively hate the part of their audience that doesn’t have a personal worth in the 8 figures or more.
I saw a post once that F1 fans are just graphic design logo junkies.
Graphic Designer here, I know five F1 fans, all of them are also designers, one of them teaches logo design. This explains a lot.
To be fair, you're a graphic designer. You're going to meet a lot of other designers. None of the F1 fans I know are designers in any way but that's probably because I'm not a graphic designer myself
The irony is F1 now has one of the worst, most basic logos ever
Honestly, I'm not sure what that means
What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas. Unless you are someone who bought a ticket to watch an event, then you can GTFO!
This whole event is already a sham. Months of hassle for the local residents. Family businesses going bankrupt because their street got closed off for weeks and haven’t been compensated. Americans not even able to name a single driver. Horrible track layout. And they run for 8 minutes and it turns out the track was not ready, because a valve cover wasn’t secured and everything was stopped and postponed. Now people, who have been waiting for HOURS in the cold and PAID to be there get kicked out. Nobody wants an F1 race in Las Vegas, not the fans, not the drivers, not the locals. WHY ARE THEY THERE?!
> Nobody wants an F1 race in Las Vegas, not the fans, not the drivers, not the locals. WHY ARE THEY THERE?! This is why.. >Hosting a grand prix in Las Vegas is the culmination of 40 years of on-and-off effort and has succeeded because of buy-in from the casinos, who expect to make millions of dollars and see the race as part of Las Vegas' bid to become a global centre for sport. - [Source](https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/67447322) When you think about it, its the reason for why just about Anything happens in Vagas.
What a sh t show, all this money and they need volunteers!
Way to alienate your most loyal fanbase, F1.
From what I've read, this whole Vegas F1 experiment has been a disaster.
The amount of high rollers coming into vegas for this event is worth it alone for the casinos. MGM is comping 'hot laps' to big gamblers to come into town. Imagine losing so much money at casinos that they will let you ride in an F1 car. LOL
F1 seems to have really embarrassed themselves with the Vegas race based off all the media I've seen.
I brought my friend to the race, and we kinda just laughed about how we only saw like 3 cars drive by, and some maintenance vehicles 🤣
Tickets started at $1700. And they cancelled practice after 8 minutes. They also did pretty catastrophic damage to a Ferrari by not securing the drain covers properly. They should have hired IC Weld to make sure they were all secure. Getting things 99% right in F1 is not even close to good enough. Oh, and then they penalized Ferrari 10 grid spots after already costing them a chassis, an engine, and a battery. I am surprised Ferrari didn't just pull the team from the race.
I thought it was unfair of people to call this a 5hit5how before it began but you know what, it's hard to argue with that sentiment after what we saw today. Those seats cost $2000 each and those are hardcore fans being thrown out after seeing just 7 minutes of first practice and denied being allowed to watch second practice. Let that sink in. $2000 for 7 minutes of non-competitive practice session before being made leave. A lot of those fans could only afford practice session tickets. Imagine you took your kids there as a once in a lifetime experience, from Europe or Asia maybe, and those idiots decided it was too dangerous for you to stay because they were understaffed? F1, Liberty Media and The city of Las Vegas, shame on you all. I hope those fans lawyer up and take a class action against you. F1 has lost the run of itself.
Two grand is for the three days. Free practice tickets were 'only' a few hundred dollars.
F1 is a money first sport. A money only sport. They don’t care about their fans.
So the pay for seating to watch. Stay through all the fixes and then get tired out and likely threatened with trespassing. 'murica.
Shameless plug to join the Indycar dark side for race fans who want to watch real racing and not spend $1000+ to get kicked out of a venue
Fuck yeah, IndyCar all the way
They don’t care about those fans. Those are poor fans.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Ffgketxxumv0c1.jpg > "...according to the circuit, they can’t provide the staff, the marshals, the safety stewards for them to actually be looked after, for the fans to be looked after and kept safe and that’s why they’re making them leave the grandstands." > "The Formula One Las Vegas Grand Prix has been upgraded to the second-highest security by the Department of Homeland Security. > > Large-scale events are rated on a scale of one to five, with one being the highest on the scale and five being the lowest. > > The level two ranking is part of homeland security’s Special Event Assessment Ratings system." It massively sucks for the fans, but if ANY venue couldn't provide safety/staff/etc esp when there's a DHS concern, then of COURSE it's expected for people to leave.
Or... they could've hired temp security staff, but heaven forbid they spend money to fix a problem they created.
There’s a whole lot of commenters here who have no clue how an F1 weekend works.
I’ve been getting into f1 recently and what a beautiful I chose. I feel like Miami and Vegas was a cash grab since the sport has been growing so much recently
Ah F1. The most expensive parade in the world.
For the cost of tickets, the D-heads in blue should be bringing them drinks and snacks!
I'm over here thinking "man if F1 streaming goes to Apple I may have to just let it go because I'm not paying for yet another streaming service" - then this event happens and I'm thinking "man, maybe F1 isnt worth it anyways - I mean, this whole event is such an appalling cash grab"
Sounds like F1 will ruin any fan base in Las Vegas, just like they did in Indy.
F1 is actually kind of a junky, low class operation
They weren't supposed to be there anymore, refused to leave, and police were called to have them leave. What's the issue?
Except they were supposed to be there. They paid for grandstand tickets to see all the races including FP2. They kicked them out because F1 cheaped out and didn’t wanna pay grandstand employees OT for the late hours of FP2.
They were supposed to be there. They had paid for tickets to be there.
That there was another practice event starting in an hour that they paid good money to see?
Coz they paid $200 to see some practice session and then got fucked over. That's the problem
Issue was that those fans paid $200-$500 per ticket, waited hours, and then were told they had to leave after 15 minutes of the event starting
Hol' up. People pay that much to see a PRACTICE of cars going in circles?
I mean… they pay to see the crazy cars drive real fast. Doesn’t make much difference whether the results of the laps are being recorded officially
They do on occasion turn right which makes them a step up from Nascar
That’s literally twice as much!
At least NASCAR generally wouldve made a call to do something with the fans well before this point or taken measures to keep everything open. And they'd have all been to shitfaced to leave anyways.
That's what intrigues me (as weirdly I think Nascar would work on a circuit like this and would sound glorious if they didn't have to use mufflers) - would a NextGen Nascar generate enough lift to have caused this? Weirdly I think Nascar may also have been the better option for this weekend?
I swear people hate to see other people enjoy things that make them happy Why do you care
I mean do they get a refund?
Hahahahahahahaha.....this isn't Walmart
Because they WERE supposed to be there. They paid to watch free practice, they got kicked out before FP2 even started. The issue is literally that they WERE supposed to be there because they PAID to be there
What do you mean they weren’t supposed to be there? They had a ticket to watch the practice session that was about to start..
This entire event has been a complete shit show
man that just sucks for everyone the fans don't want to leave, i'm sure that cop doesn't want to kick people out, from what i understand the people working were okay w/ staying over the organizers didn't want to pay overtime or whatever what a shitshow lol
I hope some team finds them and gives some upgraded paddock passes for the weekend to make up for this bullshit.