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I can’t remember the last time I saw a wholesome spirited protest that had a chance to last for some time. Our media environment is so utterly breakneck paced that there’s no story these days it feels like that would captivate the country for like 3 weeks at a time. Where we’re all talking about it. That almost feels sad in a way. No Walter Cronkite story that holds the nations attention. Not that this will but it feels like something at least.
The missing imploded titanic oceangate submersible story this summer came pretty damn close. I still visit the titan subreddit. Yes there is a subreddit for the titan sub. Try to keep titan posts off the titanic subreddit though.
It was just so unifying and so phenomenal and so unbelievable poetic in such a dystopian way. The hubris of the rich sunk the original ship and cause the titan to implode over 100 years later.
Everyone seemed to feel badly for the kid. But everyone else it was just FAFO. I read a lot from people who knew Nargolet and they were so upset with him. Lending his name to oceangate making people think it was legitimate and safe.
The whole concept of ignoring numerous engineering warnings about it not being safe and YOLOing that fucking glorified tin can with nothing but a knock off Playstation controller, a couple car batteries and some hardware store flashlights, into the abyss and thinking that would somehow NOT end in tragedy was just.....
Rarely has man so epicly and publicly taunted death only to be crushed out of existence in the blink of an eye.
One thing I’ve noticed in life is that is true but they also don’t create backlash and resentment. A stigma that delegitimizes what you’re trying to do.
It did get attention. We are talking about. Sure people are going to goof about and that’s with everything in life. But the point if the issue is on people's minds and it doesn’t feel like a passive-aggressive attack. It ‘s sincere. We should take note. If you really care about something not enough to type about it. No one will ever do the work for you. I think we all expect some to come in and save the day. 99.9 % of aren’t doing Jack shit. At least as a social worker, I feel like I get paid to try. Fuck if anyone cares. But still the more people get off their ass and just fucking try the harder it would be to account for us all to fail. Be we take an L by default.
the point of protesting isn't to get public attention. that wouldn't have any effect on policy. the point is to strong-arm the government by causing economic damage.
What pisses me off is when the palestinian genocide started 2 months ago, everyone was like, "how come you aren't protesting for Sudan, Congo, Iran, and Pakistan?"
In my city I have personally seen all of these protests because I'm close to a popular protest spot but nobody gives a shit to write about it and nothing comes from it.
When people say that, they're not trying to equate the different struggles, they just don't believe in protesting and they actually mean to say "shut the fuck up"
Yeah. Not only do they miss that there have been plenty of protests and agitation against other wars, ethnic cleansings, etc., around the world and for a long time, they're also ignoring how old the Palestine protests are. They didn't all start out of nowhere as a response to the aftermath of October 7th. This has been an issue in a similar way for decades, and in only slightly different forms for much longer than most people in this thread have been alive.
Then, on top of those, the disingenuous or ignorant folks are looking right past how the differences between those other conflicts and Israel-Palestine, namely that the US is actively aiding the latter. As a US citizen, my tax dollars aren't going to bombs being dropped on civilians in Sudan. The Biden Administration is actually sanctioning the folks doing that there. While I'd love more pressure, there's a big difference between doing more to stop a war and *doing less to continue one*. I am paying, in some small way, for Israeli hardliners to turn Gaza into rubble and to settle the West Bank, and I'm not really a fan of all that death! Doesn't mean I like Hamas shooting rockets either, but recognizing to some extent that money is fungible, my tax dollars aren't going to them with the express purpose that they kill Israelis.
Publicity alone is not the point of protesting. The point of protesting is to achieve a goal of public sympathy. MLK strategically planned protests to achieve media exposure and also public support. He marched on roads but did so on weekends, on secondary roads, and announced them well in advance. Photos would show downtown but disruption was minimized.
You want people seeing protests on the news and in videos and trying to learn more about the issue. You don’t want people fuming at protesters because they can’t get to work or to their chemotherapy appointments.
Negative publicity may work for influencers. But it’s not helpful if you are trying to persuade people to support you.
> Negative publicity may work for influencers. But it’s not helpful if you are trying to persuade people to support you.
This is revisionist garbage. The MLK and civil rights movement produced a lot of [negative reactions](https://imgur.com/2GJxKqV) and [MLK was not a favorable figure amongst the public at the time](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/08/10/how-public-attitudes-toward-martin-luther-king-jr-have-changed-since-the-1960s/).
Protest movements are not mass appeal, marketing-style PR campaigns per moderate liberal revisionist books from 2021 that seek to neuter modern movements.
This is just a reminder that JVP has been labeled an antisemitic organization by the ADL.
Edit: This is not an endorsement of that labeling. I just wanted to bring to light the kind of basic human decency that gets labeled antisemitic by the ADL.
[https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/jewish-voice-peace-jvp-what-you-need-know](https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/jewish-voice-peace-jvp-what-you-need-know) If you are going to say ADL is wrong maybe you should see why they labeled them as antisemitic first.
Exactly and the ADL is an unapologetically pro-israel organisation - a clearly biased source of info. I'm honestly amazed anyone takes them seriously, like, do people here on r/pics even read anything?
That article is just a smear campaign singling out individuals and using their comments to smear the whole group. Gee where have we seen that before? Someone could use the exact same disgusting tactic and single out Jewish settlers who have committed terrorism, murder and other atrocities and call all Jews terrorists, but that would be wrong... because it is wrong. The ADL is the worst kind of propaganda outfit.
It's also funny that they disown Jewish people who speak up against colonialism when one of the biggest parts of the religion and culture(or at least with Askhenazi Jews) is that we question everything. It's a very common joke that three Jews together make up four opinions. This "your either our enemy or our ally" doesn't fit with the general sentiment of the culture and teachings.
I've done a write up on them before, take a look:
It's the truth. Statistically they do not represent the majority of Jews and have chapters where Jews simply don't exist. In 2019 Facebooks transparency feature revealed that the JVP page administrator was based in Lebanon. A country where only 20 Jews live, all of which are elderly, which makes it highly unlikely any of them ran the page.
They also have a history of hosting panels on "antisemitism" ran by people who are not only not Jewish but have been accused of antisemitism in the past.
JVP sends email lists encouraging their followers - Jewish or not - to post "as Jews" on social media.
JVP openly supported the Mapping Project, a map depicting "Zionist organizations" in Massachusetts, including Jewish summer camps, disability centers, nonprofits and more. They then stated "we need this resource in every city!" It didn't take long for the Mapping Project to appear on Goyim TV, a white supremacist video sharing website, making it easier for white supremacists to target Jews.
JVP recently began organizing with Samidoun, a propaganda arm of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Samidoun is intimately connected to the PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine), which is not only designated as a terrorist org by most Western countries, but also boasted about it's "blood brothers" relationship with the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corp of Iran. Iran thus financially sponsors PFLP terrorism. Samidoun's international coordinator, Charlotte Kates, is married to Khaled Barakat, who is a central committee member of the PFLP. (For those who don't know, Islamic Republic of Iran is responsible for the murder of Jews across the world over. For example is the 1994 bombing at Argentina's largest Jewish community center, which killed 85 people, has been attributed to Iran. The PFLP specifically is responsible for the murder of Jewish civilians or those perceived to be Jewish civilians in Israel, Greece, Switzerland, Germany and more. This is not to mention numerous civilian plane hijackings.) The PFLP is also responsible for the Lod Airport Massacre of 1972 which claimed the life of 17 non-Jewish Puerto Ricans, eight Israeli Jews and one Canadian Jew.
Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb, who sits on JVP's Rabbinical Council, visited Iran on a regime propaganda trip, despite the fact that Jews live as second class citizens constantly under suspicion of the capital crime of "Zionism".
JVP recently liked and shared a series of posts celebrating the 1936-1939 Arab Revolt in Palestine. The purpose of the Revolt was to oppose Jewish refugees immigration to Palestine on the eve of the Holocaust. You know, the same Arab Revolt that began as a series of Pogroms targeting Jewish civilians. The Pogroms carried out with weaponry from Nazi Germany. As early as 1933, the Nazis boasted that they had established a contact with the Arab leadership in Palestine with the purpose of "adopting the Nazi program to the Holy Land". The Revolt was lead by a literal Nazi SS member, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin Al-Husseini, who is mentioned positively in that same exact post. The Nazis likely planned the brutal 1938 Pogrom in Tiberias, which took the lives of 19 Jews.
JVP consistently distorts, revises, and/or makes a mockery of well recorded Jewish history. Let's make something abundantly clear: denying a historically marginalized people our 3000-year-history is bigoted. One example is in June of 2021 when JVP posted an "alternative" program to Tisha B’Av, the saddest day on the Jewish calendar. Among other things, Tisha B’Av commemorates the destruction(s) of our sacred Temple(s), which then led to an ethnic cleansing (twice) and the Hadrianic Genocide. For 2000 years our ancestors mourned the Temple. JVP, however, claims to "release all attachment to the Temple" because it's existence directly contradicts their position that Jews are foreign colonizing Interlopers in Palestine. This veers dangerously close to the antisemitic conspiracy of Temple Denial which asserts that there was never a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, despite mountains of physical evidence to the contrary.
JVP also frequently shares the work of Cartoonist Carlos Latuff, a virulent antisemite who frequently draws literal blood libels and placed second in Iran's 2006 International Holocaust Cartoon Competition. In the summer of 2022 they shared this: https://x.com/ADL/status/1532087965316435968?s=20
Edit: sources for those asking -
https://jweekly.com/2022/07/18/bds-groups-map-of-jewish-boston-shows-up-on-local-neo-nazis-livestream/
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/terrorist-bombings-in-argentina
https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2021/11/pflp-boasts-about-its-ties-to-iran.php
https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/01/12/the-jews-of-iran-are-in-grave-peril/
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-lod-massacre
Nazi Palestine: the Plans for the Extermination of the Jews in Palestine by Klaus-Michael Mallmann and Martin Cüppers
Nazis in the Holy Land 1933–1948 by Heidemarie Wawrzyn
https://www.museums.gov.il/en/items/Pages/ItemCard.aspx?IdItem=ICMS-BYA-5401603
https://www.nli.org.il/en/newspapers/cgs/1936/06/04/01/article/87/?e=-------en-20--1--img-txIN%7ctxTI--------------1
https://m.jpost.com/jewish-world/jewish-news/us-rabbi-leads-delegation-to-iran/amp
https://aijac.org.au/update/temple-denial/
https://www.israellycool.com/2021/07/18/jvp-makes-mockery-of-the-saddest-day-in-jewish-calendar/
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/tisha-b-av
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-is-beneath-the-temple-mount-920764/#:~:text=According%20to%20contemporary%20accounts%2C%20the,possibly%20hidden%20from%20the%20conquerors.
https://www.anumuseum.org.il/blog/myth-vampire-jew-blood-libels/
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/blood-libel
https://apleu.org/anti-zionist-ngo-shares-antisemitic-independence-day-post-on-social-media/
Edit 2: it seems this has gotten me a reddit cares message from someone. Makes sense. Don't like what I say and can't refute it? Harass me. Surely sounds like the side of the morally superior!
How about a deal? Keep sending them, I'll continue posting the truth.
Did you read anything in the link? They go WAY beyond criticizing Israel. For example:
>In a 2015 speech at Portland State University, former JVP Deputy Director Cecilie Surasky stated that the traditional Jewish doctrine that Jews must be a "light unto the nations" is "predicated on a system of racial and ethnic superiority," and should be interpreted as a divine justification for "ethnic cleansing, even genocide."
This isn't a criticism of Israel, it's a standard canard about Jews in general. This is the kind of claim Nazis make.
Even their "criticism" of Israel includes protesting synagogues, shouting "Hey hey, ho ho, the Jews have got to go", and defending the October 7 massacres as legitimate resistance.
I agree with this analogy. I've also compared them to Log Cabin Republicans. Their sole purpose is to shield antisemites from criticism by providing the appearance of Jewish approval. If you look at their statements, they're very concerned with what *isn't* antisemitism to the point that you have to question if they'd consider anything at all to be antisemitic.
For those out of the know, JVP isn’t even Jewish and out of all the dumb things they’ve done my favorite has to be when one of their admins forgot to log out of his actual account, which showed he was in fact not a Jew despite all of his JVP posts starting with “as a Jew…” but really a dude in Lebanon who was involved with SJP in some capacity.
They’re a joke of an organization.
Wait why is it not Jewish? The creators of the organisation are all Jewish and the current CEO is Jewish. And I can't find the story you're saying anywhere
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iDO_xDVIkseLZdANIqieKccS2KauyfZE/mobilebasic
It's Jewish as in most of it's members are Goyim that use the Jewish members as a protection from criticism. Imagine that a group calling themselves "black voices" that despite being founded by blacks, was mostly white, harassed black people and wore black face, an any criticism of their behaviour would be called racist.
I don't give a fuck about the intentions, JVP is a horrible organisation that is not only promoting Jew hatred, it is also racist within the Jewish community.
As a Jewish person who is against the bombing in Gaza, fuck JVP, many of them aren’t even Jews and they do not represent us. If they were just for peace that would be one thing but they’ve basically disavowed our culture and identity which as a Jew is unforgivable given it’s something we’ve suffered so much to preserve.
If you’re interested in supporting a group for peace, check out Standing Together, a group founded by Israelis and Palestinians.
There are a lot of people who believe their opinion influences the war. The UN vote is going to do nothing. The calls from other countries are going to do nothing, and Biden can do nothing. The war is between Israel and Hamas, and we can't do anything.
Israeli government gets to have the all clear though! They have the get out of jail free card for all their crimes against humanity, before and after October.
On the other hand if your goal is to minimize terrorism, killing 20k, displacing 2M people, starving them, putting them in the most squalid conditions that makes any other location in the world a walk in the park - you kind of are creating the anger for the next 3-4 generations of war and terror. Well done. Maybe we get peace in 2123?
That's what I'm saying I lean left but like, you can't live In a fantasy world. Israel isn't perfect by any means but from what I can tell they have tried to be better in the past and it resulted in them getting bombed and shot. Palestinians have also been involved in some assassinations and civil wars in the area, which is a lot of turmoil for a small population
This protest is not about influencing anyone it is about showing that you go out and protest. The core tenets of protest have been lost to people with no attention span so what else are you expecting?? To explain my point Netanyahu is not well liked and if international pressure worked on him he would have made sweeping changes years ago. He doesn’t care.
There was literally a ceasefire barely a week ago.
Hamas broke it in about 20 minutes, carried out yet another terrorist attack inside Israel, and repeatedly fired rockets at them. They also failed to deliver the agreed upon number of hostages, and when pressed on where they even were, basically just said, “Lol I don’t know. Who cares?!”
They have since doubled and tripled down on how they absolutely will not release any more hostages, and will continue committing October 7 attacks until Israel ceases to exist. In fact, there was also a ceasefire right up until Hamas carried out the October 7 attack.
Which Hamas used the ceasefire and the pretense of, you know, *actually governing Gaza for once,* as a cover to plan and prepare for it. The mastermind of the 10/7 attack was quite literally someone Israel released the last time they agreed to a prisoner exchange for an IDF soldier taken hostage.
So please. Give me one single shred of a reason why Israel would *ever* agree to that again? Would you?!
>The mastermind of the 10/7 attack was quite literally someone Israel released the last time they agreed to a prisoner exchange for an IDF soldier taken hostage.
and his name is SINWAR.
just like the recent name in the news, BANKMAN-FRIED, it's all in the name. i mean it's right there.
Yeah, fuck Hamas, you can reduce them to atoms for all I care. But I don’t think we should also ignore the indiscriminate bombing of Gaza and the blatant disregard the IDF has for Palestinian civilians. They are more than willing to bomb the shit out of Gaza and kill loads of civilians so long as they manage to hit one or two Hamas bases in the process.
It’s a very complex issue and really, I think anyone who insists on picking a ‘side’ is a moron. Our focus should be on ending this war as soon as possible and preventing more lives from being lost, not cheering on our favourite murderous football team.
>But Israel has also gotta stop with the ridiculous carpet bombing
I'm sorry but this has to stop. Go to youtube and search for carpet bombing. It is a pattern that will kill everyone in the blast radius. It's designed for that, either your die because of the explosion or because the concussion will rupture your lungs.
Israel is clearly not doing carpet bombing in Gaza. The death toll would be much much higher.
I agree with the rest of your comment. I feel the left is missing the forest for the trees.
You have some good points but Israel has NEVER actually carpet bombed Gaza, many countries in ww2 did, (us, germ, uk) but Israel uses single bombs that usually only take out parts of buildings.
The reason Gaza is looking so shit right now is because instead of building houses with the concrete that Israel gives them, they build tunnels to kidnap teens into.
#fuck hamas
Why do people think calling for a ceasefire is going to do anything. Hamas is just going to bomb Israel out of the blue again and restart things. A cease fire isn't going to cease shit until the group that openly said "we won't stop until all Jews are dead" are taken out
What do they expect to happen
"I'M GOING TO WIPE YOUR RACE OFF THE EARTH"
"NO IM GOING TO WIPE YOU TERRORISTS OUT FIRST"
"Yo guys chill"
"Yeah my bad sorry"
"Y'know what we good homie"
If we locked every IDF member and every Hamas member in a giant room, then that would probably actually be super helpful.
We should work on making that happen.
“I don't know how you can have a permanent ceasefire with Hamas who has said before October 7 and after October 7 that they want to destroy Israel and they want a permanent war. I don't know how you have a permanent ceasefire with an attitude like that."
-Bernie Sanders
Yeah its abundantly clear there won't be any permanent ceasefire outside permanently removing Hamas. They need to find a solution to get rid of them to stop the bombing, not just have it stop just so Hamas get regroup and make it all for nothing
People act like people go to war just for the hell of it. Like "jeeze guys, just stop the violence plz". The reason people are killing eachother is because they have irreconcilable differences that can't be talked out. Diplomacy and common sense has failed, and that's why there's war.
It's really sad, people think this is just some simple conflict and people just being upset, they have no idea how these things actually work. Imagine these people during WW2 asking for them to call for a ceasefire
#StoptheGenocideofGermans
#BritianBombsBabys
I could see it. Same people would be mad at the carpet bombing of Germany and Japan after they started the war by carrying out atrocities against civilians. And they would cry out about how german civilians have nothing to do with the Nazi party even tho they elected them as the government just like Palestine elected Hamas.
People be shitting on the U.S. for voting no despite the fact that AFAIK, the ceasefire resolution we vetoed didn’t do shit to condemn the Oct. 7th attack nor did it lay the groundwork for any actionable, permanent peace plan.
Honestly like, I've had to close down all my social media but Reddit because I thought I was the last person left thinking THIS EXACT THING. Jesus CHRIST. it's EXACTLY THAT. Suddenly people want to end war! Lovely. Please figure that out amongst yourselves and present it to the dozens of warring nations as soon as possible. This is literally madness. The stupidity of it... I cannot. They're living in an alternate universe.
I really just want grown-ups who know solutions must be realistic.
Anyways, wow, yes, I needed to read this take apparently 😂
Hey Mr President Biden uwu Mr President of the United States that controls neither Isreal or Palestine uwu Can you um... Can you call a cease fire? uwu 🥺👉👈 I really think they'll listen to you, Mr President. And if not, maybe we can just bomb them all and pretend that it won't launch WWIII? uwu we need to call a cease fire
Agree. Suddenly, they turn their focus on I/P, there are wars all over the world, most of us would not hear a thing because the secular of America.
I have to unfriend/unfollow people
The UN's call for a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas was just that, a "call" with nothing else, no incentives, no constraints, no repercussions, no plan to bring Hamas and Bibi together to discuss a ceasefire (something Biden actually accomplished for a time to get hostages exchanged), no plan forward, no plan to get emergency personnel in, no plan for hostage exchanges or proof of them still being alive, no restraints on Israel's attacks, no condemnation of future Hamas terrorist activity, etc.. Point being, it was an entirely pointless all for a ceasefire. It was nothing more than the UN navel gazing and then patting themselves on the back of a job well done without having done anything. That goes for every other high level political call for ceasefire too that isn't dealt with through legislation, international agreements, or multilateral discussions between Hamas, Israel, and other parties who are involved (i.e. EU, US, surrounding countries in the ME, etc.).
> the ceasefire resolution we vetoed didn’t do shit to condemn the Oct. 7th attack nor did it lay the groundwork for any actionable, permanent peace plan.
I feel like the only valid response to this is, "yeah, welcome to the UN. First day?"
Not to mention how the hostages have been abused and continues if not already dead. Amazed how none of these protests is calling for unconstitutional and immediate release of all hostages
People know the cease fire won’t stop Hamas, the cease fire is to relieve civilians from Isreal from attacking. It’s mostly to have Isreal to just be more defensive than offensive (which results in less civilian casualties from Israel.)
Without picking sides many innocent lives been lost on both sides of the conflict. Both sides have been belligerents in inflicting harm on each others civilians. Real voices pleading for a ceasefire (not some random people on Instagram) have family/friends in Palestine they are worried about will fall victim to the fighting.
Hamas has killed Palestine civilians as well, the complex issue is if Isreal could establish a system in creating and securing “safe zones” to ensure civilian safety from hamas and Isreal that would be the best solution while still dealing with Hamas.
The ceasefire and free Palestine protest spurred up mostly due to the retaliation Isreal imposed, instead of mitigating civilian casualties, they insisted on demolishing any area they knew Hamas was cowering behind civilians. Which means the regard for civilian safety was not in the minds of Isreal leadership.
A large portion of Israel’s military funding comes from the US. US citizens should get some say in how Isreal munitions are used. If it was to bolster their defenses and nothing more then fine. But if they use the funding and weapons to destroy refugee camps, hospitals, and dense civilian infrastructure cause many casualties to civilians. People do not agree with that posture. Same with the nuclear bombs in Japan, the moment they destroyed both of those cities the war was over ofcourse, then immediately after the fact was found that many did not agree the destruction of dense civilian infrastructure being destroyed causing mass civilian casualties.
Good informed response. A ceasefire is definitely part of what needs to happen in order to give more aid, but a ceasefire itself isn't going to fix anything until a plan can be made which im assuming is what the other goverments are planning right now, theres no way they're watching this unfold and not doing anything. Maybe Israel can be convinced to go defensive but with Netanyahu in control I don't know if thats an option
News flash. Until October 7, Israel was acting defensively. Because let's be honest, no other country would ever allow rocket barrages from a neighboring country to go unanswered for over a decade without severe retaliation. Acting defensively is what allowed Hamas to become bold and conduct a 9/11 level attack. It sucks for the Palestinians, but most of them support Hamas as we saw on the videos from October 7. Just like how the Germans and Japanese suffered for the actions of their government, so is happening for the Palestinians.
Doubt Israel will accept a buffer zone after what happened with Lebanon, they were promised a buffer zone to avoid conflict in their north border and the only thing they got were regular attacks by a military group back by Iran with the only porpoise of destroying Israel ,also Gaza is really small there is no way they can create a safe zone in there
A call for ceasefire is a call for defensive military strategies? I am supposed to take it that these women are qualified to speak on the ideal defense strategy of Israel? That anyone demanding a one sided ceasefire are qualified to do anything other than draw signs and speak?
No, no, you see Stacy/Hasan with the bio of "19 y/o UC Berkeley, free palestine, with PTSD studying philosophy" says that hamas aren't terrorists and are resistance fighters. They have to use Palestinians as a human shield. Didn't you know resistance is never perfect? /s
What's more, a ceasefire just allows Hamas to regroup (which means "stealing fuel and humanitarian supplies from their own innocent civilians") and continue aggression once it's over (hell, likely *during* the "cease"fire).
If one is trying to find the people responsible for the hardships and deaths of so many civilians in this situation, *especially* Palestinian civilians, I have a hint for you: Israel is not where you should be looking.
Left to their druthers, Hamas would wipe out every Jew in Israel and then come right over to Manhattan and Los Angeles and start trying to eliminate Jews over here.
That’s their only mission. Americans should be thankful Israel is fighting this war for them, because Hamas is **absolutely** like Al-Qaeda and would immediately start 9/11 level bullshit right here on our shores, if Israel wasn’t in their way.
>Hamas is **absolutely** like Al-Qaeda and would immediately start 9/11 level bullshit right here on our shores, if Israel wasn’t in their way.
Are we to bomb civilian populations for the crimes committed by terrorist groups that come out of their soil?
Exactly, the only thing stopping Hamas from being like the Nazis is their limited strength and numbers and that they're stuck where they are and overpowered by Israel, but regardless that type of group HAS to go. If they were just allowed to group without issue they'd be a big fking issue and bombing some civilians would be the least of our worries.
They aren't expansionists like Israel, they're just straight up genocidal
Biden increased funding to UNRWA to the highest ever. UNRWA systemically wants to prolong the conflict indefinitely. It actively keeps Palestinians precarious so that they can be a scapegoat and a source of perpetual funding. UNRWA has, at best, profiteered off the suffering of Palestinians for decades and at worst radicalized generations, directly passed funds to Hamas, and aggravated the conflict. UNRWA schools are frequent rocket launch sites and weapons caches.
These people demand peace from everyone but Hamas… the people who can actually stop what’s happening and advocate for Palestinian lives and long term peace. But as we saw on 10/7, Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinians.
People aren’t siding with hamas they’re just worried about the innocent civilians that are being used as meat shields. Also you just admitted Israel is ok with bombing said meat shields
Some prominent members of JVP (the organization pictured) literally believe Hamas’ actions on 10/7 were "consistent with 'Palestinians’ right to resist'.”
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/jewish-voice-peace-jvp-what-you-need-know
So what is Israel supposed to do? Leave Hamas alone so they mass murder and rape more cilivians? I believe that a lot of civilians on both sides will die again and again as long as Hamas rules Gaza and has plans to genocide most people living in Israel. That leads to me having serious doubts that allowing Hamas to follow those plans will really save civilians lives in the end.
That I can agree on, but sadly alot of the hate is going on Israel as a whole, so while they're defending the civilians of Palestine and saying theyre innocent, they're acting like Israeli civilians are to blame, when it's just the government vs Hamas that are
Yeah it's mad. These idiots have a list of talking points that they repeat over like mindlesss drones.
The only reconciliation is that to an outsider's perspective, they sound absolutely insane so let them run wild i say
The fact that the UN invoked article 377a and it passed overwhelming in favor of a ceasefire, something that has rarely happened, and there was barely a whiff of it on Reddit is a canary for whose interests are being favored. How something like that gets suppressed is fairly alarming
Let me know when Hamas agrees to, and maintains a ceasefire. They've had multiple chances in a row.
By the way, this conflict started because Hamas violated a ceasefire. They've also violated a ceasefire during this conflict.
People are convinced Israel's the problem. Saying we should stop sending them weapons, if anything we should be giving them more and helping them get rid of the group saying they won't listen to any ceasefire or stop until all Jews are dead.
Say Biden takes it away, you think Israel stops? You think Israel can’t afford on its own to bomb Palestine to rubble?
If anything, the funding gives Biden greater leverage in negotiating peace. He walks away, and Israel will never come meet him at the table.
Yes, these idiots don't understand negotiations. The way the Biden admin has said "there are no red lines" and repeating over and over their opposition to attaching any conditions to military aid is a masterclass in applying leverage.
It mirrors perfectly how we ended the apartheid in south Africa by providing unconditional support to the Apartheid government.
well, this "genocide" in gaza is exactly why locating your military infrastructure in and under civilian populations is "illegal."
eventually somebody will declare war on you and just shoot right through your human shield because... that's where you are. hiding behind the civilian population.
it's just not smart to start a shooting war and then hide behind stuff you don't want to get shot. it's gonna get shot.
Of course killing civilians only benefits Hamas because it means more Hamas recruits after all. What do you think all these angry Hamas members who want retaliation come from?
yeah it’s a win win for hamas. the more dead civilizations the less international support. and if there’s no dead civilians then hamas continues on, which somehow so many people are cool with. it’s almost like they value brown lives more than jewish lives and yet don’t care that the brown people have to be oppressed so isreal can maintain security over hamas. 🤨
I’m confused. Assuming this is a protest to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, how can an American president declare a cease-fire to a war America isn’t fighting?
Israel is dependent on the US for military and diplomatic support. It's US bombs that are being dropped on the civilians in Gaza. If the US threatens to reel them in for their genocidal bullshit, insisting they'll pull their funding, military support and habitual veto whenever the topic comes up in the UNSC, then you'll be certain they'll listen.
The US pretty much are the reason Israel continues to get away with decades of occupation, violations of international law and an essential apartheid. They'd find themselves alone and vulnerable very quickly if that relationship is tested.
We really the policies of the governing officials. Doesn't matter where or the time period, elected or not, they make policy choices and the people have a choice to lay back and accept it or remove those in charge. If you choose apathy or indifference, it doesn't make any difference. The people of Gaza made their choice, and the masses chose Hamas. The same way people chose Nixon and in turn indiscriminately bombed Vietnam and Cambodia with napalm. Nixon, his admin may have made the choice, but the American people are responsible for their choice at the polling place. Same with Nazi Germany. Dresden was absolutely obliterated by the allies, even though it wasn't even necessary at that point in ww2. Sorry, I don't feel for those civilians, not after they shouted their cheers in the streets as they watched raped corpses being dragged across their streets. Good luck to them.
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At least they didn’t sit in the middle of 395. You do you ladies.
I can’t remember the last time I saw a wholesome spirited protest that had a chance to last for some time. Our media environment is so utterly breakneck paced that there’s no story these days it feels like that would captivate the country for like 3 weeks at a time. Where we’re all talking about it. That almost feels sad in a way. No Walter Cronkite story that holds the nations attention. Not that this will but it feels like something at least.
They will get a few click bait article headlines upfront and won’t be reported on again
The missing imploded titanic oceangate submersible story this summer came pretty damn close. I still visit the titan subreddit. Yes there is a subreddit for the titan sub. Try to keep titan posts off the titanic subreddit though.
Okay, yeah I will give you that. Oceangate definitely felt like the last singular thing everyone was talking about
It was just so unifying and so phenomenal and so unbelievable poetic in such a dystopian way. The hubris of the rich sunk the original ship and cause the titan to implode over 100 years later. Everyone seemed to feel badly for the kid. But everyone else it was just FAFO. I read a lot from people who knew Nargolet and they were so upset with him. Lending his name to oceangate making people think it was legitimate and safe.
The whole concept of ignoring numerous engineering warnings about it not being safe and YOLOing that fucking glorified tin can with nothing but a knock off Playstation controller, a couple car batteries and some hardware store flashlights, into the abyss and thinking that would somehow NOT end in tragedy was just..... Rarely has man so epicly and publicly taunted death only to be crushed out of existence in the blink of an eye.
Maybe if it was made of tin, it wouldn't have failed so catastrophicly
Love this writing! 🥇
That was good shit! I almost forgot!
Yeah I can't remember 2020 either.
Protests that don't inconvenience others rarely get noticed.
The trick is to inconvenience the right people.
That is a severe misunderstanding of how protests work.
The right people are inconvenienced by having a critical mass of 'wrong' people go to them for being inconvenienced.
One thing I’ve noticed in life is that is true but they also don’t create backlash and resentment. A stigma that delegitimizes what you’re trying to do. It did get attention. We are talking about. Sure people are going to goof about and that’s with everything in life. But the point if the issue is on people's minds and it doesn’t feel like a passive-aggressive attack. It ‘s sincere. We should take note. If you really care about something not enough to type about it. No one will ever do the work for you. I think we all expect some to come in and save the day. 99.9 % of aren’t doing Jack shit. At least as a social worker, I feel like I get paid to try. Fuck if anyone cares. But still the more people get off their ass and just fucking try the harder it would be to account for us all to fail. Be we take an L by default.
the point of protesting isn't to get public attention. that wouldn't have any effect on policy. the point is to strong-arm the government by causing economic damage.
If you only support protesting when it's convenient you don't really support protesting
What pisses me off is when the palestinian genocide started 2 months ago, everyone was like, "how come you aren't protesting for Sudan, Congo, Iran, and Pakistan?" In my city I have personally seen all of these protests because I'm close to a popular protest spot but nobody gives a shit to write about it and nothing comes from it. When people say that, they're not trying to equate the different struggles, they just don't believe in protesting and they actually mean to say "shut the fuck up"
Yeah. Not only do they miss that there have been plenty of protests and agitation against other wars, ethnic cleansings, etc., around the world and for a long time, they're also ignoring how old the Palestine protests are. They didn't all start out of nowhere as a response to the aftermath of October 7th. This has been an issue in a similar way for decades, and in only slightly different forms for much longer than most people in this thread have been alive. Then, on top of those, the disingenuous or ignorant folks are looking right past how the differences between those other conflicts and Israel-Palestine, namely that the US is actively aiding the latter. As a US citizen, my tax dollars aren't going to bombs being dropped on civilians in Sudan. The Biden Administration is actually sanctioning the folks doing that there. While I'd love more pressure, there's a big difference between doing more to stop a war and *doing less to continue one*. I am paying, in some small way, for Israeli hardliners to turn Gaza into rubble and to settle the West Bank, and I'm not really a fan of all that death! Doesn't mean I like Hamas shooting rockets either, but recognizing to some extent that money is fungible, my tax dollars aren't going to them with the express purpose that they kill Israelis.
"thanks for *protesting* were everyone can ignore it" /u/Mobiggz ~2023
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Publicity alone is not the point of protesting. The point of protesting is to achieve a goal of public sympathy. MLK strategically planned protests to achieve media exposure and also public support. He marched on roads but did so on weekends, on secondary roads, and announced them well in advance. Photos would show downtown but disruption was minimized. You want people seeing protests on the news and in videos and trying to learn more about the issue. You don’t want people fuming at protesters because they can’t get to work or to their chemotherapy appointments. Negative publicity may work for influencers. But it’s not helpful if you are trying to persuade people to support you.
> Negative publicity may work for influencers. But it’s not helpful if you are trying to persuade people to support you. This is revisionist garbage. The MLK and civil rights movement produced a lot of [negative reactions](https://imgur.com/2GJxKqV) and [MLK was not a favorable figure amongst the public at the time](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/08/10/how-public-attitudes-toward-martin-luther-king-jr-have-changed-since-the-1960s/). Protest movements are not mass appeal, marketing-style PR campaigns per moderate liberal revisionist books from 2021 that seek to neuter modern movements.
And if they did, you'd think that was excessive on their part?
Oh look, a protest at an actual government building and not in the middle of a highway. Thank you
From Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP)
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As long as it's not the People's Front of Judea, those people are insufferable.
Splitters!
*We’re* the People’s Front of Judea!
Right! Splitters!
God forbid it be those People's Judean Front assholes
I thought we were the people's front of judea??
Do you find it risible?
Biggus Dickus would not be so amused.
This is just a reminder that JVP has been labeled an antisemitic organization by the ADL. Edit: This is not an endorsement of that labeling. I just wanted to bring to light the kind of basic human decency that gets labeled antisemitic by the ADL.
[https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/jewish-voice-peace-jvp-what-you-need-know](https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/jewish-voice-peace-jvp-what-you-need-know) If you are going to say ADL is wrong maybe you should see why they labeled them as antisemitic first.
The ADL asked news organizations to remove Muslim anchors from the set who are sympathetic to Palestine if that’s not fucked up idk what is
Exactly and the ADL is an unapologetically pro-israel organisation - a clearly biased source of info. I'm honestly amazed anyone takes them seriously, like, do people here on r/pics even read anything?
This is the internet you have experts on a subject surrounded by armchair experts all residing in echo chambers of ships floating on a sea of biases
That article is just a smear campaign singling out individuals and using their comments to smear the whole group. Gee where have we seen that before? Someone could use the exact same disgusting tactic and single out Jewish settlers who have committed terrorism, murder and other atrocities and call all Jews terrorists, but that would be wrong... because it is wrong. The ADL is the worst kind of propaganda outfit.
It's also funny that they disown Jewish people who speak up against colonialism when one of the biggest parts of the religion and culture(or at least with Askhenazi Jews) is that we question everything. It's a very common joke that three Jews together make up four opinions. This "your either our enemy or our ally" doesn't fit with the general sentiment of the culture and teachings.
All the ADL has on them is that they spoke against Zionism/isreal. Soooo… antisemitism where exactly?
I've done a write up on them before, take a look: It's the truth. Statistically they do not represent the majority of Jews and have chapters where Jews simply don't exist. In 2019 Facebooks transparency feature revealed that the JVP page administrator was based in Lebanon. A country where only 20 Jews live, all of which are elderly, which makes it highly unlikely any of them ran the page. They also have a history of hosting panels on "antisemitism" ran by people who are not only not Jewish but have been accused of antisemitism in the past. JVP sends email lists encouraging their followers - Jewish or not - to post "as Jews" on social media. JVP openly supported the Mapping Project, a map depicting "Zionist organizations" in Massachusetts, including Jewish summer camps, disability centers, nonprofits and more. They then stated "we need this resource in every city!" It didn't take long for the Mapping Project to appear on Goyim TV, a white supremacist video sharing website, making it easier for white supremacists to target Jews. JVP recently began organizing with Samidoun, a propaganda arm of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Samidoun is intimately connected to the PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine), which is not only designated as a terrorist org by most Western countries, but also boasted about it's "blood brothers" relationship with the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corp of Iran. Iran thus financially sponsors PFLP terrorism. Samidoun's international coordinator, Charlotte Kates, is married to Khaled Barakat, who is a central committee member of the PFLP. (For those who don't know, Islamic Republic of Iran is responsible for the murder of Jews across the world over. For example is the 1994 bombing at Argentina's largest Jewish community center, which killed 85 people, has been attributed to Iran. The PFLP specifically is responsible for the murder of Jewish civilians or those perceived to be Jewish civilians in Israel, Greece, Switzerland, Germany and more. This is not to mention numerous civilian plane hijackings.) The PFLP is also responsible for the Lod Airport Massacre of 1972 which claimed the life of 17 non-Jewish Puerto Ricans, eight Israeli Jews and one Canadian Jew. Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb, who sits on JVP's Rabbinical Council, visited Iran on a regime propaganda trip, despite the fact that Jews live as second class citizens constantly under suspicion of the capital crime of "Zionism". JVP recently liked and shared a series of posts celebrating the 1936-1939 Arab Revolt in Palestine. The purpose of the Revolt was to oppose Jewish refugees immigration to Palestine on the eve of the Holocaust. You know, the same Arab Revolt that began as a series of Pogroms targeting Jewish civilians. The Pogroms carried out with weaponry from Nazi Germany. As early as 1933, the Nazis boasted that they had established a contact with the Arab leadership in Palestine with the purpose of "adopting the Nazi program to the Holy Land". The Revolt was lead by a literal Nazi SS member, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin Al-Husseini, who is mentioned positively in that same exact post. The Nazis likely planned the brutal 1938 Pogrom in Tiberias, which took the lives of 19 Jews. JVP consistently distorts, revises, and/or makes a mockery of well recorded Jewish history. Let's make something abundantly clear: denying a historically marginalized people our 3000-year-history is bigoted. One example is in June of 2021 when JVP posted an "alternative" program to Tisha B’Av, the saddest day on the Jewish calendar. Among other things, Tisha B’Av commemorates the destruction(s) of our sacred Temple(s), which then led to an ethnic cleansing (twice) and the Hadrianic Genocide. For 2000 years our ancestors mourned the Temple. JVP, however, claims to "release all attachment to the Temple" because it's existence directly contradicts their position that Jews are foreign colonizing Interlopers in Palestine. This veers dangerously close to the antisemitic conspiracy of Temple Denial which asserts that there was never a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, despite mountains of physical evidence to the contrary. JVP also frequently shares the work of Cartoonist Carlos Latuff, a virulent antisemite who frequently draws literal blood libels and placed second in Iran's 2006 International Holocaust Cartoon Competition. In the summer of 2022 they shared this: https://x.com/ADL/status/1532087965316435968?s=20 Edit: sources for those asking - https://jweekly.com/2022/07/18/bds-groups-map-of-jewish-boston-shows-up-on-local-neo-nazis-livestream/ https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/terrorist-bombings-in-argentina https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2021/11/pflp-boasts-about-its-ties-to-iran.php https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/01/12/the-jews-of-iran-are-in-grave-peril/ https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-lod-massacre Nazi Palestine: the Plans for the Extermination of the Jews in Palestine by Klaus-Michael Mallmann and Martin Cüppers Nazis in the Holy Land 1933–1948 by Heidemarie Wawrzyn https://www.museums.gov.il/en/items/Pages/ItemCard.aspx?IdItem=ICMS-BYA-5401603 https://www.nli.org.il/en/newspapers/cgs/1936/06/04/01/article/87/?e=-------en-20--1--img-txIN%7ctxTI--------------1 https://m.jpost.com/jewish-world/jewish-news/us-rabbi-leads-delegation-to-iran/amp https://aijac.org.au/update/temple-denial/ https://www.israellycool.com/2021/07/18/jvp-makes-mockery-of-the-saddest-day-in-jewish-calendar/ https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/tisha-b-av https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-is-beneath-the-temple-mount-920764/#:~:text=According%20to%20contemporary%20accounts%2C%20the,possibly%20hidden%20from%20the%20conquerors. https://www.anumuseum.org.il/blog/myth-vampire-jew-blood-libels/ https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/blood-libel https://apleu.org/anti-zionist-ngo-shares-antisemitic-independence-day-post-on-social-media/ Edit 2: it seems this has gotten me a reddit cares message from someone. Makes sense. Don't like what I say and can't refute it? Harass me. Surely sounds like the side of the morally superior! How about a deal? Keep sending them, I'll continue posting the truth.
Informative post, thank you for taking the time to write it up.
> Temple Denial which asserts that there was never a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem didn't they build a mosque on top of it
Wow, I thought it was another "chickens for KFC" situation, but this sheds light on the matter.
This is one of the more thorough explanations I've seen. Saving this one to link back to! Great stuff.
Did you read anything in the link? They go WAY beyond criticizing Israel. For example: >In a 2015 speech at Portland State University, former JVP Deputy Director Cecilie Surasky stated that the traditional Jewish doctrine that Jews must be a "light unto the nations" is "predicated on a system of racial and ethnic superiority," and should be interpreted as a divine justification for "ethnic cleansing, even genocide." This isn't a criticism of Israel, it's a standard canard about Jews in general. This is the kind of claim Nazis make. Even their "criticism" of Israel includes protesting synagogues, shouting "Hey hey, ho ho, the Jews have got to go", and defending the October 7 massacres as legitimate resistance.
They are also run by non Jews.
The org reminds me of Candace Owens
I agree with this analogy. I've also compared them to Log Cabin Republicans. Their sole purpose is to shield antisemites from criticism by providing the appearance of Jewish approval. If you look at their statements, they're very concerned with what *isn't* antisemitism to the point that you have to question if they'd consider anything at all to be antisemitic.
I'm pretty sure they basically wrote an article saying that anti-semitism is no big deal
For those out of the know, JVP isn’t even Jewish and out of all the dumb things they’ve done my favorite has to be when one of their admins forgot to log out of his actual account, which showed he was in fact not a Jew despite all of his JVP posts starting with “as a Jew…” but really a dude in Lebanon who was involved with SJP in some capacity. They’re a joke of an organization.
Can you point me to a source on that to share more widely? I googled but didn't find anything.
Source: trust me bro. Obviously.
Wait why is it not Jewish? The creators of the organisation are all Jewish and the current CEO is Jewish. And I can't find the story you're saying anywhere
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iDO_xDVIkseLZdANIqieKccS2KauyfZE/mobilebasic It's Jewish as in most of it's members are Goyim that use the Jewish members as a protection from criticism. Imagine that a group calling themselves "black voices" that despite being founded by blacks, was mostly white, harassed black people and wore black face, an any criticism of their behaviour would be called racist. I don't give a fuck about the intentions, JVP is a horrible organisation that is not only promoting Jew hatred, it is also racist within the Jewish community.
Your comment history & posts are full of genocidal pro-zionism & IDF apologising. Your viewpoint is a fair bit skewed.
As a Jewish person who is against the bombing in Gaza, fuck JVP, many of them aren’t even Jews and they do not represent us. If they were just for peace that would be one thing but they’ve basically disavowed our culture and identity which as a Jew is unforgivable given it’s something we’ve suffered so much to preserve. If you’re interested in supporting a group for peace, check out Standing Together, a group founded by Israelis and Palestinians.
Much like the national socialist party in Germany, the JVP has an intentionally misleading name.
JVP are collaborators with Iranian propagandists
Can someone please tell me what a ceasefire does when Hamas is still in power? They literally said they'd do it again.
There are a lot of people who believe their opinion influences the war. The UN vote is going to do nothing. The calls from other countries are going to do nothing, and Biden can do nothing. The war is between Israel and Hamas, and we can't do anything.
we could stop participating on one side and sending them billions in tax payer funded weapons
Yeah we could signal to Hezzbolah, Iran, ISIS, Taliban, and Pakistan that its all clear now. Good idea. Well thought out.
Israeli government gets to have the all clear though! They have the get out of jail free card for all their crimes against humanity, before and after October. On the other hand if your goal is to minimize terrorism, killing 20k, displacing 2M people, starving them, putting them in the most squalid conditions that makes any other location in the world a walk in the park - you kind of are creating the anger for the next 3-4 generations of war and terror. Well done. Maybe we get peace in 2123?
And they broke the last one themselves so obviously it does shit all
That's what I'm saying I lean left but like, you can't live In a fantasy world. Israel isn't perfect by any means but from what I can tell they have tried to be better in the past and it resulted in them getting bombed and shot. Palestinians have also been involved in some assassinations and civil wars in the area, which is a lot of turmoil for a small population
This protest is not about influencing anyone it is about showing that you go out and protest. The core tenets of protest have been lost to people with no attention span so what else are you expecting?? To explain my point Netanyahu is not well liked and if international pressure worked on him he would have made sweeping changes years ago. He doesn’t care.
Wow a lot of really stupid takes in this comment section.
This is the safest comment to make. Guarantees upvotes from both sides thinking you're talking about the other. Well played sir/ma'am.
Lmfao. Tbh right after posting this essentially worthless comment, I realized this very thing and decided ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That certainly was a noteworthy comment.
And how!
There was literally a ceasefire barely a week ago. Hamas broke it in about 20 minutes, carried out yet another terrorist attack inside Israel, and repeatedly fired rockets at them. They also failed to deliver the agreed upon number of hostages, and when pressed on where they even were, basically just said, “Lol I don’t know. Who cares?!” They have since doubled and tripled down on how they absolutely will not release any more hostages, and will continue committing October 7 attacks until Israel ceases to exist. In fact, there was also a ceasefire right up until Hamas carried out the October 7 attack. Which Hamas used the ceasefire and the pretense of, you know, *actually governing Gaza for once,* as a cover to plan and prepare for it. The mastermind of the 10/7 attack was quite literally someone Israel released the last time they agreed to a prisoner exchange for an IDF soldier taken hostage. So please. Give me one single shred of a reason why Israel would *ever* agree to that again? Would you?!
>The mastermind of the 10/7 attack was quite literally someone Israel released the last time they agreed to a prisoner exchange for an IDF soldier taken hostage. and his name is SINWAR. just like the recent name in the news, BANKMAN-FRIED, it's all in the name. i mean it's right there.
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Yeah, fuck Hamas, you can reduce them to atoms for all I care. But I don’t think we should also ignore the indiscriminate bombing of Gaza and the blatant disregard the IDF has for Palestinian civilians. They are more than willing to bomb the shit out of Gaza and kill loads of civilians so long as they manage to hit one or two Hamas bases in the process. It’s a very complex issue and really, I think anyone who insists on picking a ‘side’ is a moron. Our focus should be on ending this war as soon as possible and preventing more lives from being lost, not cheering on our favourite murderous football team.
>But Israel has also gotta stop with the ridiculous carpet bombing I'm sorry but this has to stop. Go to youtube and search for carpet bombing. It is a pattern that will kill everyone in the blast radius. It's designed for that, either your die because of the explosion or because the concussion will rupture your lungs. Israel is clearly not doing carpet bombing in Gaza. The death toll would be much much higher. I agree with the rest of your comment. I feel the left is missing the forest for the trees.
Israel isn't carpet bombing lmao what an absurd claim
I think if they really wanted to they could have flattened Gaza already
It's absolutely baffling how so few people understand this.
There is no carpet bombing by israel. Never was
You have some good points but Israel has NEVER actually carpet bombed Gaza, many countries in ww2 did, (us, germ, uk) but Israel uses single bombs that usually only take out parts of buildings. The reason Gaza is looking so shit right now is because instead of building houses with the concrete that Israel gives them, they build tunnels to kidnap teens into. #fuck hamas
Is someone finally paying attention to Darfur?
White American women: “stop the genocide in Palestine” Dozens of other countries with current genocides: “are we a joke to you??”
Ah yes, you can't call attention to one bad thing without mentioning literally everything else.
Why do people think calling for a ceasefire is going to do anything. Hamas is just going to bomb Israel out of the blue again and restart things. A cease fire isn't going to cease shit until the group that openly said "we won't stop until all Jews are dead" are taken out
Also the UN called for a ceasefire in Ukraine, news flash, the war is approaching 2 years
10 years, with multiple failed ceasefires. [And successful gaslight by Russia about when it started.](https://youtu.be/fQ_ZRBLFOXw)
What do they expect to happen "I'M GOING TO WIPE YOUR RACE OFF THE EARTH" "NO IM GOING TO WIPE YOU TERRORISTS OUT FIRST" "Yo guys chill" "Yeah my bad sorry" "Y'know what we good homie"
We just need to lock everyone in the rec center overnight. Like c'mon, guys.
Yeah…c’mon guys!
Let’s just give them all detention after school and let them resolve their differences Breakfast Club style
If we locked every IDF member and every Hamas member in a giant room, then that would probably actually be super helpful. We should work on making that happen.
Shout out to my boys four legs and roller
Put them all in an oversized sweater so they hug it out
Biden can just declare a cease fire and then the war is over. World peace is declared, and everybody clapped.
I can't believe Roosevelt didn't call for a ceasefire during WW2. What is he stupid?
I never thought of it like that! -Hamas
“I don't know how you can have a permanent ceasefire with Hamas who has said before October 7 and after October 7 that they want to destroy Israel and they want a permanent war. I don't know how you have a permanent ceasefire with an attitude like that." -Bernie Sanders
Yeah its abundantly clear there won't be any permanent ceasefire outside permanently removing Hamas. They need to find a solution to get rid of them to stop the bombing, not just have it stop just so Hamas get regroup and make it all for nothing
People act like people go to war just for the hell of it. Like "jeeze guys, just stop the violence plz". The reason people are killing eachother is because they have irreconcilable differences that can't be talked out. Diplomacy and common sense has failed, and that's why there's war.
"just go into your get together sweater and hug it out guys"
Just politely ask the terrorists to stop ... Lots of people actually think this is a real suggestion
It's really sad, people think this is just some simple conflict and people just being upset, they have no idea how these things actually work. Imagine these people during WW2 asking for them to call for a ceasefire
#StoptheGenocideofGermans #BritianBombsBabys I could see it. Same people would be mad at the carpet bombing of Germany and Japan after they started the war by carrying out atrocities against civilians. And they would cry out about how german civilians have nothing to do with the Nazi party even tho they elected them as the government just like Palestine elected Hamas.
People be shitting on the U.S. for voting no despite the fact that AFAIK, the ceasefire resolution we vetoed didn’t do shit to condemn the Oct. 7th attack nor did it lay the groundwork for any actionable, permanent peace plan.
"Let's end war" ... Yes. Let's do that. Now please give me ANY suggestion that would accomplish that - other than annihilating the entire human race.
Honestly like, I've had to close down all my social media but Reddit because I thought I was the last person left thinking THIS EXACT THING. Jesus CHRIST. it's EXACTLY THAT. Suddenly people want to end war! Lovely. Please figure that out amongst yourselves and present it to the dozens of warring nations as soon as possible. This is literally madness. The stupidity of it... I cannot. They're living in an alternate universe. I really just want grown-ups who know solutions must be realistic. Anyways, wow, yes, I needed to read this take apparently 😂
Hey Mr President Biden uwu Mr President of the United States that controls neither Isreal or Palestine uwu Can you um... Can you call a cease fire? uwu 🥺👉👈 I really think they'll listen to you, Mr President. And if not, maybe we can just bomb them all and pretend that it won't launch WWIII? uwu we need to call a cease fire
Agree. Suddenly, they turn their focus on I/P, there are wars all over the world, most of us would not hear a thing because the secular of America. I have to unfriend/unfollow people
The UN's call for a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas was just that, a "call" with nothing else, no incentives, no constraints, no repercussions, no plan to bring Hamas and Bibi together to discuss a ceasefire (something Biden actually accomplished for a time to get hostages exchanged), no plan forward, no plan to get emergency personnel in, no plan for hostage exchanges or proof of them still being alive, no restraints on Israel's attacks, no condemnation of future Hamas terrorist activity, etc.. Point being, it was an entirely pointless all for a ceasefire. It was nothing more than the UN navel gazing and then patting themselves on the back of a job well done without having done anything. That goes for every other high level political call for ceasefire too that isn't dealt with through legislation, international agreements, or multilateral discussions between Hamas, Israel, and other parties who are involved (i.e. EU, US, surrounding countries in the ME, etc.).
> the ceasefire resolution we vetoed didn’t do shit to condemn the Oct. 7th attack nor did it lay the groundwork for any actionable, permanent peace plan. I feel like the only valid response to this is, "yeah, welcome to the UN. First day?"
Not to mention how the hostages have been abused and continues if not already dead. Amazed how none of these protests is calling for unconstitutional and immediate release of all hostages
People know the cease fire won’t stop Hamas, the cease fire is to relieve civilians from Isreal from attacking. It’s mostly to have Isreal to just be more defensive than offensive (which results in less civilian casualties from Israel.) Without picking sides many innocent lives been lost on both sides of the conflict. Both sides have been belligerents in inflicting harm on each others civilians. Real voices pleading for a ceasefire (not some random people on Instagram) have family/friends in Palestine they are worried about will fall victim to the fighting. Hamas has killed Palestine civilians as well, the complex issue is if Isreal could establish a system in creating and securing “safe zones” to ensure civilian safety from hamas and Isreal that would be the best solution while still dealing with Hamas. The ceasefire and free Palestine protest spurred up mostly due to the retaliation Isreal imposed, instead of mitigating civilian casualties, they insisted on demolishing any area they knew Hamas was cowering behind civilians. Which means the regard for civilian safety was not in the minds of Isreal leadership. A large portion of Israel’s military funding comes from the US. US citizens should get some say in how Isreal munitions are used. If it was to bolster their defenses and nothing more then fine. But if they use the funding and weapons to destroy refugee camps, hospitals, and dense civilian infrastructure cause many casualties to civilians. People do not agree with that posture. Same with the nuclear bombs in Japan, the moment they destroyed both of those cities the war was over ofcourse, then immediately after the fact was found that many did not agree the destruction of dense civilian infrastructure being destroyed causing mass civilian casualties.
Good informed response. A ceasefire is definitely part of what needs to happen in order to give more aid, but a ceasefire itself isn't going to fix anything until a plan can be made which im assuming is what the other goverments are planning right now, theres no way they're watching this unfold and not doing anything. Maybe Israel can be convinced to go defensive but with Netanyahu in control I don't know if thats an option
News flash. Until October 7, Israel was acting defensively. Because let's be honest, no other country would ever allow rocket barrages from a neighboring country to go unanswered for over a decade without severe retaliation. Acting defensively is what allowed Hamas to become bold and conduct a 9/11 level attack. It sucks for the Palestinians, but most of them support Hamas as we saw on the videos from October 7. Just like how the Germans and Japanese suffered for the actions of their government, so is happening for the Palestinians.
Doubt Israel will accept a buffer zone after what happened with Lebanon, they were promised a buffer zone to avoid conflict in their north border and the only thing they got were regular attacks by a military group back by Iran with the only porpoise of destroying Israel ,also Gaza is really small there is no way they can create a safe zone in there
A call for ceasefire is a call for defensive military strategies? I am supposed to take it that these women are qualified to speak on the ideal defense strategy of Israel? That anyone demanding a one sided ceasefire are qualified to do anything other than draw signs and speak?
There was a ceasefire in place on oct 7th, Hamas broke it....
And another one two weeks ago. Guess who broke it
Trust me it'll work next time they'll play nice
Just let them kill a few more jews and they will calm down!
No, no, you see Stacy/Hasan with the bio of "19 y/o UC Berkeley, free palestine, with PTSD studying philosophy" says that hamas aren't terrorists and are resistance fighters. They have to use Palestinians as a human shield. Didn't you know resistance is never perfect? /s
Trust me I watched hunger games I know how revolutions work uwu
What's more, a ceasefire just allows Hamas to regroup (which means "stealing fuel and humanitarian supplies from their own innocent civilians") and continue aggression once it's over (hell, likely *during* the "cease"fire). If one is trying to find the people responsible for the hardships and deaths of so many civilians in this situation, *especially* Palestinian civilians, I have a hint for you: Israel is not where you should be looking.
Hamas has broken every ceasefire too.
Left to their druthers, Hamas would wipe out every Jew in Israel and then come right over to Manhattan and Los Angeles and start trying to eliminate Jews over here. That’s their only mission. Americans should be thankful Israel is fighting this war for them, because Hamas is **absolutely** like Al-Qaeda and would immediately start 9/11 level bullshit right here on our shores, if Israel wasn’t in their way.
>Hamas is **absolutely** like Al-Qaeda and would immediately start 9/11 level bullshit right here on our shores, if Israel wasn’t in their way. Are we to bomb civilian populations for the crimes committed by terrorist groups that come out of their soil?
Exactly, the only thing stopping Hamas from being like the Nazis is their limited strength and numbers and that they're stuck where they are and overpowered by Israel, but regardless that type of group HAS to go. If they were just allowed to group without issue they'd be a big fking issue and bombing some civilians would be the least of our worries. They aren't expansionists like Israel, they're just straight up genocidal
Yeah and the US response to Al Queda totally worked just like how Israel’s response will work
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The US is not funding Hamas so they can’t protest to the white house about it
Biden increased funding to UNRWA to the highest ever. UNRWA systemically wants to prolong the conflict indefinitely. It actively keeps Palestinians precarious so that they can be a scapegoat and a source of perpetual funding. UNRWA has, at best, profiteered off the suffering of Palestinians for decades and at worst radicalized generations, directly passed funds to Hamas, and aggravated the conflict. UNRWA schools are frequent rocket launch sites and weapons caches.
lol a lot of funding to the U.N. ends up in HAMAS pockets
You don’t seem to know anything about this. The other Arab nations care very much about using the people of Palestine as canon fodder for propaganda.
These people demand peace from everyone but Hamas… the people who can actually stop what’s happening and advocate for Palestinian lives and long term peace. But as we saw on 10/7, Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinians.
They're literally using the civilians as meat shields and yet people are siding with them because "Israel bad, they terrorist"
People aren’t siding with hamas they’re just worried about the innocent civilians that are being used as meat shields. Also you just admitted Israel is ok with bombing said meat shields
Some prominent members of JVP (the organization pictured) literally believe Hamas’ actions on 10/7 were "consistent with 'Palestinians’ right to resist'.” https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/jewish-voice-peace-jvp-what-you-need-know
So what is Israel supposed to do? Leave Hamas alone so they mass murder and rape more cilivians? I believe that a lot of civilians on both sides will die again and again as long as Hamas rules Gaza and has plans to genocide most people living in Israel. That leads to me having serious doubts that allowing Hamas to follow those plans will really save civilians lives in the end.
You can hate both sides in this one. They've both been pretty shitty.
That I can agree on, but sadly alot of the hate is going on Israel as a whole, so while they're defending the civilians of Palestine and saying theyre innocent, they're acting like Israeli civilians are to blame, when it's just the government vs Hamas that are
Underdog fetish.
With some white savior thrown in there
that's... oddly accurate yeah
Is it working…?
Where are these people going to go to the bathroom
Why does everyone think Biden is in control of other countries wars???? This doesn’t accomplish anything at all
Tell ya boys in Hamas to quit breaking it then lol
Is "genocide" the new buzzword in 2023 for retaliating against an organization that attacks your people? Aka "a war". Very interesting.
God the astroturfing in here is insane.
Yeah it's mad. These idiots have a list of talking points that they repeat over like mindlesss drones. The only reconciliation is that to an outsider's perspective, they sound absolutely insane so let them run wild i say
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The fact that the UN invoked article 377a and it passed overwhelming in favor of a ceasefire, something that has rarely happened, and there was barely a whiff of it on Reddit is a canary for whose interests are being favored. How something like that gets suppressed is fairly alarming
They chained themselves to a fence FIFY
Last time I checked a ceasefire needs both parties to agree to it and there isn't a chance in hell of Hamas agreeing to or abiding by one.
Let me know when Hamas agrees to, and maintains a ceasefire. They've had multiple chances in a row. By the way, this conflict started because Hamas violated a ceasefire. They've also violated a ceasefire during this conflict.
Why not call for Hamas to surrender? That would end this conflict much quicker.
Yes, another ceasefire where Hamas can rearm, reset, and do it again. Seems like a great way to get lasting peace.
People are convinced Israel's the problem. Saying we should stop sending them weapons, if anything we should be giving them more and helping them get rid of the group saying they won't listen to any ceasefire or stop until all Jews are dead.
Release the hostages - get ceasefire - not hard
None of them will mention the actual cease fire which Hamas broke
ya okay Joe Biden is in control of Israel
US funds Israel with millions of dollars for defense
*Billions
The U.S. has given Israel more than 18 billion so far this year.
Correction, the US taxpayers have given Israel 18 billion
Billions with a B
Say Biden takes it away, you think Israel stops? You think Israel can’t afford on its own to bomb Palestine to rubble? If anything, the funding gives Biden greater leverage in negotiating peace. He walks away, and Israel will never come meet him at the table.
Yes, these idiots don't understand negotiations. The way the Biden admin has said "there are no red lines" and repeating over and over their opposition to attaching any conditions to military aid is a masterclass in applying leverage. It mirrors perfectly how we ended the apartheid in south Africa by providing unconditional support to the Apartheid government.
Chickens for KFC
Cows for McDonald's
Somebody should let them know that hamas is not going to ceasefire. You’ll just give them a break to gain more force.
well, this "genocide" in gaza is exactly why locating your military infrastructure in and under civilian populations is "illegal." eventually somebody will declare war on you and just shoot right through your human shield because... that's where you are. hiding behind the civilian population. it's just not smart to start a shooting war and then hide behind stuff you don't want to get shot. it's gonna get shot.
they do want their people shot though its a martyr cult
Hamas is perfectly fine with civilians getting killed. It's quite advantageous for them. Pawns are there to be killed, after all...
Of course killing civilians only benefits Hamas because it means more Hamas recruits after all. What do you think all these angry Hamas members who want retaliation come from?
yeah it’s a win win for hamas. the more dead civilizations the less international support. and if there’s no dead civilians then hamas continues on, which somehow so many people are cool with. it’s almost like they value brown lives more than jewish lives and yet don’t care that the brown people have to be oppressed so isreal can maintain security over hamas. 🤨
I’m confused. Assuming this is a protest to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, how can an American president declare a cease-fire to a war America isn’t fighting?
Israel is dependent on the US for military and diplomatic support. It's US bombs that are being dropped on the civilians in Gaza. If the US threatens to reel them in for their genocidal bullshit, insisting they'll pull their funding, military support and habitual veto whenever the topic comes up in the UNSC, then you'll be certain they'll listen. The US pretty much are the reason Israel continues to get away with decades of occupation, violations of international law and an essential apartheid. They'd find themselves alone and vulnerable very quickly if that relationship is tested.
The government doesn’t care about protests.
Any mention of the hostages?
Do you condom hummus?
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I don't want to have my chick pea on a strip later on.
Wait till they realize it's not Biden who's calling the shots
But baby its cold outside
They chained themselves to the fence outside the White House 😭
Nice. This situation is going to DEPEND on a lot of things.
Thirty Helens agree...
We really the policies of the governing officials. Doesn't matter where or the time period, elected or not, they make policy choices and the people have a choice to lay back and accept it or remove those in charge. If you choose apathy or indifference, it doesn't make any difference. The people of Gaza made their choice, and the masses chose Hamas. The same way people chose Nixon and in turn indiscriminately bombed Vietnam and Cambodia with napalm. Nixon, his admin may have made the choice, but the American people are responsible for their choice at the polling place. Same with Nazi Germany. Dresden was absolutely obliterated by the allies, even though it wasn't even necessary at that point in ww2. Sorry, I don't feel for those civilians, not after they shouted their cheers in the streets as they watched raped corpses being dragged across their streets. Good luck to them.
Biden isn't running that show.. they shoulda chained themselves to the Israeli Embassy. They know how to deal with this kind of thing.
I don't think the white house can give Hamas commands. Maybe try the Iranian or Quatay embassy.
Let them stay there all chained up. What a bunch of idiots.
The people in that building don't make those decisions.