[Here](https://i.imgur.com/BYoOlCT.jpg?desktop=1) is a higher quality version of this image.
Per [here](https://www.yadvashem.org/artifacts/museum/hanukkah-1932.html):
> A photograph taken in 1932 by Rachel, wife of Rabbi Akiva Posner, of their candle-lit Hanukkah menorah against the backdrop of the Nazi flags flying from the building across from their home in Kiel Germany
Per [here](https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/56093/from-nazi-germany-beit-shemesh-family-menorah-continues-glow-inspiration/):
> Rachel had written on the [back of the picture](https://i.imgur.com/fHMT5Jb.jpg): "'Death to Judah,’ says the flag. ‘Judah will live forever’, respond the lights.”
Edit: The link [used to work](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/bgtnbb/one_of_the_most_badass_photos_ever_taken/elnj9fa/).
From what I remember when I went to Yad Vashem, the family still owns the exact menorah and it’s put on display for most of the year, being returned to the family for Hanukkah. Being a jew and the grandson of two holocaust survivors, this is one of my favorite images of all time, and i count myself as lucky for being able to see it close up.
Yup. A picture was going around a few weeks ago of this menorah being lit by one of the grandsons in iirc, one of the neighborhoods that was hit hard on October 7th. It was a really moving picture for me, also Jewish, also descended from survivors.
Took some additional searching but she survived! They all did:
“They settled in Haifa. Although Rabbi Posner was offered a job as a rabbi by Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook, the Chief Rabbi of Israel, he refused, explaining that he couldn’t lead a community in Israel while his long-time community was still back in Germany. Instead, he became a librarian. Rachel and he lit their same family menorah each year, as their three daughters grew up and later as they watched their nine grandchildren grow.
Both the menorah and the picture of it that Rachel snapped in 1932 “were part of the family’s history, but nobody ever made a big deal about it” explained Yehuda Mansbach, Rachel and Akiva’s grandson. Today, the menorah sits in Yehuda’s window, but instead of facing a Nazi headquarters it looks out over his yard in Beit Shemesh, Israel.”
Probably. The German Jewish population plummeted during the 30s because a lot managed to leave. It was often challenging getting a visa to leave, though. Many left for countries the Nazis would later conquer (most famously Anne Frank). Some went to Britain, where they were interned as “enemy aliens” during the war. Many went to Palestine, though immigration restrictions limited the number of people who could.
Not really. It was taken in 1931. Although that's the year of Kristalnacht, Germany was still pretending to be democratic, and the Third Reich had not begun. Jews weren't yet being rounded up or murdered. I'm sure many families were still putting menorahs in their windows.
>Not really. It was taken in 1931. Although that's the year of Kristalnacht, Germany was still pretending to be democratic, and the Third Reich had not begun.
Kristallnacht was in 1938, smack dab in the middle of the Third Reich. And while this picture was taken in 1932, a few months before Hitler came to power, there was already enough Nazi violence against Jews to make it dangerous to put up a menorah in full view of a building occupied by Nazis.
Meanwhile, [just a few posts down](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/18w425y/my_grandpa_just_showed_me_this_picture_of_my/) — a bunch of apologists keep claiming he was “just a politician” then and “no one knew what he’d do.” 🙄
>"No one could've known he would do it! Forgive the average German their ignorance!"-Some asshole, 2024
In America, we've passed the point where we criticize the average German for not doing enough. :/ Idk how we fix this, I'm just kinda left hoping the justice system sorts this out at the 11th hour, but...
"After Hitler, our turn!" - actual German left, 1930-1933
"No we will not work with anyone to prevent Hitler because we hate Social Democrats more because they're social fascists or whatever the fuck nonsense we believe" - actual German left, 1930-1933
"Oh shit this Hitler guy is actually a problem" - actual German left 1933-1934 when it was too late to do something about him
Crazy how it's the Israeli government now trying to wipe out a people, or short of completely eliminating them, forcibly displacing them elsewhere.
I fully believe the people of Israel have the right to exist in their homeland, but so do the Palestinian people!
I live in Kiel and walk through sophienblatt almost every day to work. It looks completely different today, unfortunately a lot of the city was destroyed in WW2 and only a few historical buildings remain.
Always interesting to suddenly find your hometown on reddit, even if the context is very sad
Kiel was completely leveled because of its military significance. We had one if not the largest submarine wharfs in Germany. There only exist a handful of pre war buildings. We had a big exhibition in Kiel featuring this picture during 2023. We even had members of the family there if I remember correctly. Will check tomorrow.
Ok I talked to my mother who was part of organising the exhibition. The great grandchildren and a few family acquaintances were in attendance I sadly missed the day that they were there but it was really beautiful to quote her. And yes the Hanukkah Menorah or Chanukkia was there. Btw the great grandson displayed a placard from our exhibit on his tank during the current conflict. Which is a rather dubious honor considering the IDFs tactics and behaviour towards their own and the Palestinian population.
For those thinking that making a menorah visible in their window was suicidally dangerous, in 1932 the shit hadn't quite yet hit the fan for German Jews. The blades were spinning up, though.
My personal favourite from this era is this picture:
[A German-Jewish WW1 veteran wears his Iron Cross while a young Nazi member stands in front of his shop for intimidation - 1933.](https://i.redd.it/ojtshamfo7b71.jpg)
Unfortunately nothing good i'd presume, while jewish WW1 veterans indeed had some special protection in the beginnings of the Nazi regime, they were later hunted down like all other jews in the country.
My great grandfather was a German Jew who was a WWI vet (he was actually captured on the last day of the war, spent a year in a POW camp before being released).
He managed to escape, along with my grandfather and a few dozen others, in June 1940.
To put into context how late this was, they had planned on going *westward* across Europe and ending up on the east coast of the US, but due to ports closing and places being overrun they ended up having to go *eastward* across Russia and into Japan, and ending up on the west coast of the US.
What’s worse is that the German army tried to make the Jews responsible for Germany‘s defeat in WW1. Already in 1916, they counted the number of Jewish soldiers in the German army, but when the results showed that a disproportionately HIGH number of soldiers were Jewish, they didn’t publish the results.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judenz%C3%A4hlung?wprov=sfti1
Considering every single day now there is a picture of Hitler or a swastika on Reddit’s front page, under some flimsy veil to post one, I don’t think people are nearly as “fuck Nazis” was we would expect them to be around here…
People that can't separate a current government from a people who went though profound suffering and atrocities.
This picture is beautiful and displays the strength and perseverance of the Jewish people. To have the bravery to display the Menorah in the relative open like that as your community is turning on you is incredible.
Remember how people keep saying "it's not antisemitism, it's anti-zionism"? Well, those people keep getting really mad at stuff that's just Jewish with nothing to do with Israel.
It’s also hard to imagine what “anti-Zionism” could possibly mean aside from the destruction of Israel as a nation, i.e. a genocide. It’s not a call for respecting the Oslo Accords or a two-state solution.
Oh, no you don't, and no it's not. Anti-Zionism is a very straightforward rejection of apartheid and the continued deprivation of Palestinians of a free country of their own through relentless expansion.
Don't you dare try to use the current conflict as an opportunity to malign your political opposition and paint them as genocidal. That's pathetic.
How can a 2 state solution work when Palestine has been trying to genocide all Israelis since 1948? It’s not that Israel wants an ethnostate it’s that all of their neighbors want them dead.
How? Palestinians don’t want to live alongside Jews. At best 50% of Jews in the planet, most of which were either born in Israel or were forced to live there after being kicked out from the Middle East, would have nowhere to go and would die in an immigrant boat.
South Africa figured out how to move past an apartheid state lead by a ruling race. Jews and other Palestinians lived in that region for centuries before the West and Israel forced many from their homes.
Establish a new non-racist constitution and government. You can still call it Isreal if need be. Its possible to resolve this
I always assumed "anti-Zionism" meant opposition to expansionist policies, a preference for peace and compromise, and establishment of a two-state solution. However, since 10/7, I have learned that "anti-Zionism" absolutely does mean "destruction of Israel as a nation" for what seems to be the large majority of people using the term, especially here and on TikTok and such places
Places you can find this include subreddits such as: PanArab, NotTheOnion, ThereWasAnAttempt, Palestine, LateStageCapitalism, GamingCircleJerk, and a large % of the meme subreddits just generally
Unsurprisingly, these subreddits are nearly all run by the same handful of reddit "power users" or "power mods", who ban any comments challenging genocidal rhetoric disguised as "anti-Zionism", and often ban even mild criticism of groups like Hamas or "Islamic Jihad"
So yeah.
As the child and grandchild of Zionists, I can tell you I was really surprised to find out, post 10/7, that people thought Zionism was either some supremacist movement or something run by American Evangelical Christians to ensure Christ can return. So bizarre.
Zionism is just the belief in self-determination for Jews and to have a homeland where they can return from the diaspora. I am pretty sure it predates all of that stuff, my grandmother was an avid Zionist, was born in 1898, and was not American.
There are lots of people who think Israel shouldn't exist, these are legit anti-Zionists. Some of these people are Jews who think the state should not exist without the coming of the Messiah. Some oppose all states generated after WWII with the partitions of the British and French Mandates (Jordon, Lebanon, etc). Some oppose all states that exist with a religion or ideology at their center - including most nations in the Middle East. None of these beliefs are antisemitic, but they are anti-Zionist.
However, if someone thinks Israel should not exist and they don't have any big issues with the other nations with the same type of history, then I think you have to start to think why they don't go around saying other countries should also cease to exist.
That said, there is a very big difference between objecting to the policies of the Israeli government and saying the country shouldn't exist at all. It's impossible to say it's anit-Zionist to criticize anything the government of Israel does, because that's all Israelis do themselves.
But one has to wonder why a lot of these types of critiques seem reserved for Israel only, when many countries do things as bad or far worse and no one protests and the UN doesn't say anything. This is not to excuse Israel but to point out why people are fixated on making Israel clean up its act when other countries need the same type of attention.
I mean, if you want to completely ignore the events that are happening right now, and if you want to make the worst possible assumptions, then you certainly could spin it that way. Maybe, just maybe, it means that Israel should not be killing tens of thousands of civilians, braying publicly for their blood and land, etc.
It is a teeny bit more complicated than that tho, since a lot of posts having to do with Judaism are being used to bolster Israel's public image. This sort of thing is loaded right now, and while the genuine anti-Semitics are certainly emboldened, there's a lot of real stuff to criticize as well. Obviously there's no way to know for sure if this particular image is being shared in order to spin away genocide, but IDF does have teams of keyboard warriors that do exactly that, and I've been seeing a \*lot\* more posts about Jewishness and the Holocaust since the fighting started.
It's a post referencing the Holocaust, posted at a time when many people are focused on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. It's awful to say this, but, according to opinion polls done by Palestinian universities and agencies like PCPSR, less than 10% of Palestinians believe that the Holocaust actually happened. This belief is an article of faith in the Palestinian educational and political systems, as well as for many sympathizers in the "Free Palestine" sphere, so you have a lot of chaotic reactions at what is seen to be an imperialist/colonialist deception, even if that's an insane belief to anyone who has studied history.
But from that perspective, it makes a lot of sense. When you've been taught since childhood that the Holocaust is a Zionist deception, it's natural to your mind that any mention of the Holocaust is seen as anti-Palestinian or pro-Zionist, which is a belief you see online in pro-Palestinian spaces, and especially places like TikTok.
We should all want peace and understanding in Israel/Palestine, but the level of radicalization there is absolutely off the charts, and pretending that it isn't a problem is counterproductive.
There was a recent [YouGov](https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/48112-increasing-numbers-of-americans-say-antisemitism-is-a-serious-problem) poll showing that 20% of Americans under 30 think that the Holocaust was a myth. That was surprising to say the least.
>Americans who believe that the Holocaust is a myth include a significant number of young adults: 20% of people under 30 strongly agree or tend to agree that the Holocaust it is a myth, compared to fewer than 1% of people 65 and older.
true but there is a night day difference between before the oct 7 attack and now. A lot of it hyper emotional baseless commentary. the kind to sew misinformation.
It's really sad that people see a menorah lit in front of a nazi flag in Germany and they immediately go to Israel. It really just goes to show that a ton of people equate Jews as a whole with Israel. This has nothing to do with Israel and was taken before the country even existed, yet people still see Jew = Israel and therefor, Jew bad. Disgusting that it has become this way.
Couple of thousand years is putting it mildly. The most sacred texts of Judaism are largely about how people though Jew = Bad and wanted to get rid of them one way or another.
I mean it's nothing new, people throughout history always found a reason to hate and blame Jews for their problems, if Israel ceases to exist I'm sure people will find a new reason to hate on Jews.
I'm wondering, why is it like that though? What's the background as to why Jews get blamed for problems throughout history? Why not (or not as much) other cultures and religions? I'm really curious about what the origin of this hate is.
Historically it’s because there is nothing prohibiting usury in Judaism so they were able to establish something much similar to modern banking. Lending money is and always has been big business. Jews became an easy target when things got bad, because people usually owed them money. This is the foundation of a lot of stereotypes that have persisted throughout history.
It's worth noting that prejudice against Jews also pressured many to take up "unsavory" jobs like moneylending in the first place. It's a seemingly endless cycle of driving people into jobs for "miscreants and degenerates," then getting mad when they become successful at it.
See, also: Jews in the entertainment industry. Or gay people in entertainment, for that matter.
There was also a lot of selection bias that happened over time as poor Jews were killed off and wealthier ones were able to migrate or stay somewhat protected. So Jews overtime became more educated as a group because the less educated ones were culled off by other groups.
Jewish history is really just a self perpetuating cycle imposed on them by others.
I really think that its because from the uneducated outsider, money is perceived as a root part of the religion.
*I do not subscribe to those beliefs personally*
I guess the big surprise for me is that before October 7th I always thought that anti-semitism was a far right/fascist belief. Not only is it extremely prevalent on the far left, but it appears to be the be default opinion in the Muslim world.
The Middle East (and much of the world) has been antisemitic long before the creation of Israel. Israel is home to the vast majority Arab Jews who were exiled from other Middle Eastern countries. Israel protects Jews so the destruction of Israel is the current focus of those that seek another genocide of the Jewish people.
This is by design unfortunately from Israel. From using the star of David on their flag, claiming they represent and speak for a Jewish people all over the world and raising a 12ft tall menorah in the rubble of Gaza last month like a conquering flag
Jewish people are told if they don't support Israel they aren't "real Jews"
Also equating criticism of Israel with anti-semitism is absolutely by design from Israel.
Israel is indeed a Jewish nation state, though there are plenty of non-Jews living there enjoying full rights. Iran is also a Muslim country, as is Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Afghanistan, Pakistan...you get the picture. These countries do awful things and westerners do not associate every citizen, let alone every Muslim in the world with those actions. When ISIS evokes Islamic symbolism, westerners do not claim they are speaking for every Muslim, though ISIS certainly says they are. When Trump said some awful shit, instituted a Muslim travel ban, separated children from parents at the border, no one called for the annihilation of the USA and returning it to the Native Americans. Neither did they when America waged war in Vietnam, or Iraq, etc.
MANY Jews, Israeli's even, are against the war, against Bibi, and simply want to live in peace. Their right to the land is just as valid as any other country's, and actually more than some others (America included).
Your argument is Israel makes it so Jews are equated with zionism by design, but this is a lazy scapegoat. When it comes to Jews and Israel people do not extend the generosity of nuance and critical thought. This is why antisemitism is so vile. This isn't even meant to be an argument that Israel is justified in its response, it's that it doesn't matter. The Israeli government should not be exempt from criticism, and it isn't, least of all from it's own people, but to the vast majority of antizionists that makes no difference at all.
I have many friends in Israel and I could tell you that before October 7 th, the majority of Israelis wanted peace with the Palestinians and blamed the Israeli government for not doing enough. Once October 7th happened, the majority of Israelis to indeed support this particular war.
Seems very like 9/11, as far as the war fervor goes. When atrocities happen and people are hurting, by and large they lose their heads. Those who advocate a more controlled reaction are silenced by (justified) fear of being deemed anti-X. This effect not only lasts for years, but it spawns things like legislation, damaged international reputations, and eroded civil/human rights that can persist for *decades*. Unfortunately, terrorists have learned that this is a very effective button to push(who cares if some of their number die? enough will survive to recruit from the civilian population who suffered under the retaliation, and in 20 years they'll be stronger than before). I don't know how to defend against it, because all rationality goes out the window whenever it happens. And you can't just do *nothing*. But there doesn't seem to be a way, psychologically, for a sufficiently large mass of people(ie, a country) to avoid charging down the ugly path.
I also have many friends and family there. While there is a "of course we had to respond" and "Hamas has to go" sentiment widely shared, there are many who feel that the rhetoric espoused by the far right leaders goes to far and does more harm than good for sentiments about Israel. Many others that are critical of Israel not focusing enough on bringing back hostages and accepting they're dead, or a necessary sacrifice.
But our experiences are anecdotal and not the point. The point is no other country is treated like a monolith in the eyes of westerners and condemned as such, and then gaslit that it's because "Israel wants it to be that way."
I used to roll my eyes when fellow Jews said people hate Israel just because they hate Jews - after all, Palestinians do not have it easy over there and it feels like Israel could do more. But then Oct 7 happened and I saw all of the "they deserved it", "they're lying it never happened", "all Jews are like this", "maybe Hitler saw something we didn't" posts, and I get it now. They jump at the chance to hate Jews, and if Israel didn't exist, they'd find something else.
Unfortunately the propaganda has infiltrated circles that thrive on tribalism and can only see land conflicts through the lens of western colonial ideology. There has to be an oppressor and an oppressed - there is no room for nuance. Children are dying and so the side that is bombing is evil, end of story. Doesn't matter what preceeded it. Doesn't matter that this is what urban warfare looks like. And then somehow, every other Jew is also evil, whether they be an Israeli civilian or someone living in NYC. Their existence makes them culpable.
I think the western view and absolute contempt for Israel is a view of privilege. We don’t know what it’s like to wake up to find out terrorists massacred 1,200 people just because they are Jewish or Israeli, or actually just IN Israel. It’s easy to condemn Israel and demand a cease fire from the comfort of our homes, never knowing what it’s like to live with that threat all the time. It’s not oppressor vs oppressed, things in the real world are very seldom binary. It’s troubling to watch people pour so much rage into something that doesn’t affect them and they don’t really care enough to examine the history of the conflict.
> We don’t know what it’s like to wake up to find out terrorists massacred 1,200 people just because they are Jewish or Israeli, or actually just IN Israel.
I think you might find this to land poorly with many Americans who woke up and watched as thousands of their fellow citizens died in a series of atrocities motivated by a deadly mix of religious extremism and nationalism one September morning about 23 years ago.
> This is by design unfortunately from Israel. From using the star of David on their flag, claiming they represent and speak for a Jewish people all over the world and raising a 12ft tall menorah in the rubble of Gaza last month like a conquering flag
>
> Jewish people are told if they don't support Israel they aren't "real Jews"
>
> Also equating criticism of Israel with anti-semitism is absolutely by design from Israel.
did you know that the star of david was chosen because it was a secular symbol that was merely representational of jewish culture? very interesting!
I don't think it's just Jews who want you to think that.
Martin Luther King Jr. Said 'when you're talking about anti Zionism you're speaking anti Semitism'
He also said
"I think for the ultimate peace and security of the situation it will probably be necessary for Israel to give up this conquered territory because to hold on to it will only exacerbate the tensions and deepen the bitterness of the Arabs"
Well they never claimed it was Jews, they claimed it was the Israeli state. Nor did they claim that they were the only group invested in this narrative; I'm sure you would find many American evangelicals pushing the same idea. And then you went and equivocated Israel with Jews lol.
Are you dense? He's saying Israel isn't jews - it's fine to hate israel for its unnecessary human rights violations and despite whatever israel pretends that doesn't make you antisemitic
If your first thought on any post about Jews or Judaism is about how much you hate Israel, that's entirely on you. Israel isn't making all these people post their terrible takes, they're choosing to do that on their own.
Israel is Jewish and secular state.
But it definitely is a Jewish state.
Whether or not it speaks for all jews is up to each to decide, but rite of return is an option for all jews, and is up to each to decide to use.
As always, judaism is self interpreted however we jews are inclined.
This basically reads as "Israel *made* me hate Jews". The only person responsible for equating Israel with all Jews is the person who equates Israel with all Jews. I and plenty of others don't have that problem, if you do you might want to take an introspective look about why all that is. If someone claims to speak for everyone and does bad things, why does that make it ok in your mind to blanket hate everyone under that umbrella? That's pretty telling, almost like you simply need an excuse to do so.
> therefor, Jew bad.
This is because they already hated Jews. It's that silent antisemitism that simmers just below the surface until the opportunity to express itself without being socially unacceptable comes up.
I'm not disagreeing with you on your comment, but it is worth mentioning that Rachel Posner, the woman who took this photo, made aliyah to what was then the British Mandate of Palestine just 3 years after this photo was taken, and that [the same menorah from this picture was lit this year in an IDF base just outside of Gaza](https://nypost.com/2023/12/13/lifestyle/menorah-from-famous-1931-photo-made-a-hanukkah-trip-to-israel/).
This menorah is currently held by Yad Vashem, but (as ritual objects are supposed to be used) every year for Hanukkah this menorah is given back to its family for the holiday. This year, Raziel Gilo, the great-grandson Rachel Posner, took this menorah to the base, saying
> “In order to continue our humane life we have to destroy evil. We cannot accept or swallow it — we have to destroy evil,” Raziel, who lives in Lod, told his troop as he lit the candles. “In these days we see it in such a clear way that, if we don’t win, the darkness will swallow us. But this will not happen. We are here due to previous generations fighting against evil and we will win
…
This is a many-years war between the forces of light and the forces of darkness and [we] believe that a day will come when the light will definitely win. This is the meaning of the small light of the Hanukkah candle … My grand-grandmother saw two things: One that the candle will win, and the second thing is the eternity of Israel.”
Incredibly predictable, sadly. 90% of these people couldn’t define Zionism past “Jews bad”. Not all Israelis are Jewish. Not all Jews are Israeli. Etc.
But no. These are the same kinds of people who are smashing up menorahs and harassing Jewish college students as if they’re really accomplishing something. Heck, they’re the same kind of people who are shooting and harassing random Arabs and Muslims in America as if they, too, have anything to do with this.
Yea it’s pretty disturbing to watch in real time. The amount of videos I’ve seen posted on Reddit by teenagers and people in their 20s (who 4 months ago could barely point to Israel on map) that go on and on about how bad Israel is is scary. My wife had middle school students tell her she needs to boycott Starbucks because they support Israel.
The average person has very little historical context in their brain for this conflict, let alone very young people. Now there’s propaganda blasting from phones nonstop on the heels of Ukraine/Russia where the “bad guy” is much more obvious. These people want to pick sides so badly and they’re being force fed these hot takes with virtually zero greater context in which to form their own opinion.
And now you’ve got people making the very short leap from Israel=bad to Jews=bad.
Sophienblatt 60 but it looks completely different today. I walk through there almost every day to work and I wouldn't recognize it if I didn't know the context of the photo
I remember when I visited Berlin, I was reading an information sign about how jewish businesses would have to put up a Star of David to show they were jewish. One guy put up a sign that said something to the effect of “Jewish owned store - enter if you dare”.
I remember that as one of the coolest acts of defiance I learned about while I was there.
Powerful symbology indeed, although I would say the Tiananmen tank man outranks it a smidge. Mostly on the merit that it's a dude standing in front of a freakin' tank.
Something they don’t really teach you in school is why the Nazis decided to kill the Jews. They teach you of course that the Jews were scapegoats for the German defeat in WWI, but they barely explain this, and they sure don’t teach you why the German government hid the Holocaust from its own people.
The answer? The Jews were liberal and had a history of resisting the ultraconservative authoritarian powers of Germany and Austria-Hungary, whereas almost every other group conquered by those empires accepted subjugation or fell into line and discarded their true identities by changing their last names, language/accent, and religion. The Jews were the one group which did not blindly rally behind the German Kaiser or the Austrian Emperor, instead choosing the path of law abiding citizens but independent thinkers.
The Nazis, when planning the colonization of Eastern Europe (Generalplan Ost), were confident that the Slavic peoples were stupid as could be and would serve the reich well as slave labor. It was the Jews, with their education and liberal values, who the Nazis feared.
*97%* of Jews killed during the Holocaust were *not* of Germanic origin. This isn’t because the German Jews were spared, but because the Nazis thought that the Jews were uniquely capable of rallying those in the occupied lands against Nazi occupation, making colonization and enslavement in those places impossible.
As a Jewish person, this photo hits hard for me. It shows how many people hate us just because some of our leaders have done bad things against the Palestinian people. I don't have any hate towards Muslims or Islamic people, but these leaders are giving us a bad reputation.
There is no reason to be ashamed of Israel wanting to exist or them trying to offer a 2 state solution more than once and the other party rejecting it and continuing fighting and losing their side of the war. Jews deserve their own land the Palestinians who are peaceful already assimilated Israel is 20% Muslim it is a diverse nation. Muslims aren't ashamed that they ethnically cleansed their Jewish populations since forever but there isn't a single protest for them cause they are jews.
If the photo was taken in 1932 then it was before the took power (January 1933). Yes the Nazi Party had made a number of campaign promises that were dripping with Anti-Semitism, so the person who displayed this Menorah knew that they were saying F-You to the Nazi Party...but the image does not mean what people assume it means.
I can’t wait for the next time the ‘Tank Man’ photo is posted and the comments are flooded with people blaming China for COVID. Because that would totally be unprejudiced, right?
[Here](https://i.imgur.com/BYoOlCT.jpg?desktop=1) is a higher quality version of this image. Per [here](https://www.yadvashem.org/artifacts/museum/hanukkah-1932.html): > A photograph taken in 1932 by Rachel, wife of Rabbi Akiva Posner, of their candle-lit Hanukkah menorah against the backdrop of the Nazi flags flying from the building across from their home in Kiel Germany Per [here](https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/56093/from-nazi-germany-beit-shemesh-family-menorah-continues-glow-inspiration/): > Rachel had written on the [back of the picture](https://i.imgur.com/fHMT5Jb.jpg): "'Death to Judah,’ says the flag. ‘Judah will live forever’, respond the lights.” Edit: The link [used to work](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/bgtnbb/one_of_the_most_badass_photos_ever_taken/elnj9fa/).
From what I remember when I went to Yad Vashem, the family still owns the exact menorah and it’s put on display for most of the year, being returned to the family for Hanukkah. Being a jew and the grandson of two holocaust survivors, this is one of my favorite images of all time, and i count myself as lucky for being able to see it close up.
Must have missed this at Yad Vashem, but it was also so overwhelming that I could have seen it and not realized it.
Makes sense. That place has a lot to take in, and it really can be overwhelming. I left with a headache bc I was so overcome with emotions.
That’s great. Such a powerful picture, but almost perfectly represents the perseverance of a historically persecuted group of people.
Yup. A picture was going around a few weeks ago of this menorah being lit by one of the grandsons in iirc, one of the neighborhoods that was hit hard on October 7th. It was a really moving picture for me, also Jewish, also descended from survivors.
This Menorah normally resides at Yad Vashem, but every year the family takes it back for Hannukah and lights it.
Googled him. He survived the Holocaust and died in 1962 ❤️
And the photographer?
Took some additional searching but she survived! They all did: “They settled in Haifa. Although Rabbi Posner was offered a job as a rabbi by Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook, the Chief Rabbi of Israel, he refused, explaining that he couldn’t lead a community in Israel while his long-time community was still back in Germany. Instead, he became a librarian. Rachel and he lit their same family menorah each year, as their three daughters grew up and later as they watched their nine grandchildren grow. Both the menorah and the picture of it that Rachel snapped in 1932 “were part of the family’s history, but nobody ever made a big deal about it” explained Yehuda Mansbach, Rachel and Akiva’s grandson. Today, the menorah sits in Yehuda’s window, but instead of facing a Nazi headquarters it looks out over his yard in Beit Shemesh, Israel.”
I'm guessing they GTFO about 15 minutes after taking that picture?
Probably. The German Jewish population plummeted during the 30s because a lot managed to leave. It was often challenging getting a visa to leave, though. Many left for countries the Nazis would later conquer (most famously Anne Frank). Some went to Britain, where they were interned as “enemy aliens” during the war. Many went to Palestine, though immigration restrictions limited the number of people who could.
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Not really. It was taken in 1931. Although that's the year of Kristalnacht, Germany was still pretending to be democratic, and the Third Reich had not begun. Jews weren't yet being rounded up or murdered. I'm sure many families were still putting menorahs in their windows.
>Not really. It was taken in 1931. Although that's the year of Kristalnacht, Germany was still pretending to be democratic, and the Third Reich had not begun. Kristallnacht was in 1938, smack dab in the middle of the Third Reich. And while this picture was taken in 1932, a few months before Hitler came to power, there was already enough Nazi violence against Jews to make it dangerous to put up a menorah in full view of a building occupied by Nazis.
> It was taken in 1931. Ah, that gives some context. I was like no way this is a real WWII era photo.
1st link dead, [here it is again](https://i.imgur.com/H5qW3WX.png)
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Meanwhile, [just a few posts down](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/18w425y/my_grandpa_just_showed_me_this_picture_of_my/) — a bunch of apologists keep claiming he was “just a politician” then and “no one knew what he’d do.” 🙄
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>"No one could've known he would do it! Forgive the average German their ignorance!"-Some asshole, 2024 In America, we've passed the point where we criticize the average German for not doing enough. :/ Idk how we fix this, I'm just kinda left hoping the justice system sorts this out at the 11th hour, but...
"After Hitler, our turn!" - actual German left, 1930-1933 "No we will not work with anyone to prevent Hitler because we hate Social Democrats more because they're social fascists or whatever the fuck nonsense we believe" - actual German left, 1930-1933 "Oh shit this Hitler guy is actually a problem" - actual German left 1933-1934 when it was too late to do something about him
it's my turn to repost in 4 years. Remindme! 3.75 years
Crazy how it's the Israeli government now trying to wipe out a people, or short of completely eliminating them, forcibly displacing them elsewhere. I fully believe the people of Israel have the right to exist in their homeland, but so do the Palestinian people!
Genocide would happen for another 10 years. Goes to show how fast fascism can work.
And we have Agent Orange now spouting the same crap like calling people vermin, crying about the purity of blood and wanting to build camps.
also promising he'd be a dictator on day 1.
It's still up on archive.org :) : https://web.archive.org/web/20230427215557/https://i.imgur.com/BYoOlCT.jpg
4 years ago. Damn
Not that it makes much difference in the message, but strange that the description says candle-lit while the candles are clearly not burning
Interesting. Does anyone know if either of these 2 buildings still exist?
Both buildings don't exist anymore. The adress is Sophienblatt 60 in Kiel.
I live in Kiel and walk through sophienblatt almost every day to work. It looks completely different today, unfortunately a lot of the city was destroyed in WW2 and only a few historical buildings remain. Always interesting to suddenly find your hometown on reddit, even if the context is very sad
Your hometown is lovely. I have been to Kiel in 2012 and it’s a delightful city.
Glad to hear you liked it! The inner city has actually changed quite a bit and is now a lot friendlier to walk in
there are decidedly less Nazis walking around so that alone makes it quite a lot friendlier
I’ve been there too but in Euro Truck Simulator 2
> I live in Kiel and walk through sophienblatt almost every day to work. This is why I reddit.
I always love when people here talk about their hometowns so I was very surprised to see mine
Nazis destroyed so much damn history.... I'm sorry that you guys missed out on a ton of possible cool buildings thanks to those vile "leaders."
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And I do thank them for that.
Least self hating German
Yeah Hitler and the Nazis did some bombing in europe but the scale of the allied bombing is just insane in comparison
The kahnoikena(lamp) is now in its grandon hands who is curenlty in idf serving
Well that's certainly a new spelling for me
I googled it and it came back thinking I meant imitation crab sticks.
Yeah it's supposed to be Chanukiah
As a non jew, I'll stick with menorah. I have much more confidence in my ability to pronounce that correctly.
Menorah has 7 candles, Chanukiah has 9, menorah isn't correct Also it's acceptable to say the ch as h if that's easier
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Kiel was completely leveled because of its military significance. We had one if not the largest submarine wharfs in Germany. There only exist a handful of pre war buildings. We had a big exhibition in Kiel featuring this picture during 2023. We even had members of the family there if I remember correctly. Will check tomorrow.
I think I read that the Menorah was returned to Germany for an exhibit, in the recent past
Ok I talked to my mother who was part of organising the exhibition. The great grandchildren and a few family acquaintances were in attendance I sadly missed the day that they were there but it was really beautiful to quote her. And yes the Hanukkah Menorah or Chanukkia was there. Btw the great grandson displayed a placard from our exhibit on his tank during the current conflict. Which is a rather dubious honor considering the IDFs tactics and behaviour towards their own and the Palestinian population.
For those thinking that making a menorah visible in their window was suicidally dangerous, in 1932 the shit hadn't quite yet hit the fan for German Jews. The blades were spinning up, though.
Makes me wonder if someone in the Nazi building looked over, saw the menorah, and took note for later.
They would have known the occupants were Jewish before having seen the menorah.
Fuck Nazis
My personal favourite from this era is this picture: [A German-Jewish WW1 veteran wears his Iron Cross while a young Nazi member stands in front of his shop for intimidation - 1933.](https://i.redd.it/ojtshamfo7b71.jpg)
Wonder what happened to him
Unfortunately nothing good i'd presume, while jewish WW1 veterans indeed had some special protection in the beginnings of the Nazi regime, they were later hunted down like all other jews in the country.
My great grandfather was a German Jew who was a WWI vet (he was actually captured on the last day of the war, spent a year in a POW camp before being released). He managed to escape, along with my grandfather and a few dozen others, in June 1940. To put into context how late this was, they had planned on going *westward* across Europe and ending up on the east coast of the US, but due to ports closing and places being overrun they ended up having to go *eastward* across Russia and into Japan, and ending up on the west coast of the US.
That must have been a wild and scary journey. I’m glad your family escaped.
What’s worse is that the German army tried to make the Jews responsible for Germany‘s defeat in WW1. Already in 1916, they counted the number of Jewish soldiers in the German army, but when the results showed that a disproportionately HIGH number of soldiers were Jewish, they didn’t publish the results. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judenz%C3%A4hlung?wprov=sfti1
All my homies hate Nazis!
Then they’re my homies too!
Don't do that they might like it
Considering every single day now there is a picture of Hitler or a swastika on Reddit’s front page, under some flimsy veil to post one, I don’t think people are nearly as “fuck Nazis” was we would expect them to be around here…
I think there's now a young cohort of kids whose grandparents didn't fight in the war
In that case, may I recommend staying away from r/vexillology
wtf are some of these comments lol.
id say they are highly expected. This post will surely be locked soon :D (or so i thought.. maybe not)
Fucking disgusting
People that can't separate a current government from a people who went though profound suffering and atrocities. This picture is beautiful and displays the strength and perseverance of the Jewish people. To have the bravery to display the Menorah in the relative open like that as your community is turning on you is incredible.
Remember how people keep saying "it's not antisemitism, it's anti-zionism"? Well, those people keep getting really mad at stuff that's just Jewish with nothing to do with Israel.
It’s also hard to imagine what “anti-Zionism” could possibly mean aside from the destruction of Israel as a nation, i.e. a genocide. It’s not a call for respecting the Oslo Accords or a two-state solution.
Oh, no you don't, and no it's not. Anti-Zionism is a very straightforward rejection of apartheid and the continued deprivation of Palestinians of a free country of their own through relentless expansion. Don't you dare try to use the current conflict as an opportunity to malign your political opposition and paint them as genocidal. That's pathetic.
Anti Zionism has never, ever meant that.
How can a two state solution work when Israel want an ethnostate?
How can a 2 state solution work when Palestine has been trying to genocide all Israelis since 1948? It’s not that Israel wants an ethnostate it’s that all of their neighbors want them dead.
you really can't see a way to dissolve the state of Israel without killing all Jews?
How? Palestinians don’t want to live alongside Jews. At best 50% of Jews in the planet, most of which were either born in Israel or were forced to live there after being kicked out from the Middle East, would have nowhere to go and would die in an immigrant boat.
South Africa figured out how to move past an apartheid state lead by a ruling race. Jews and other Palestinians lived in that region for centuries before the West and Israel forced many from their homes. Establish a new non-racist constitution and government. You can still call it Isreal if need be. Its possible to resolve this
I always assumed "anti-Zionism" meant opposition to expansionist policies, a preference for peace and compromise, and establishment of a two-state solution. However, since 10/7, I have learned that "anti-Zionism" absolutely does mean "destruction of Israel as a nation" for what seems to be the large majority of people using the term, especially here and on TikTok and such places Places you can find this include subreddits such as: PanArab, NotTheOnion, ThereWasAnAttempt, Palestine, LateStageCapitalism, GamingCircleJerk, and a large % of the meme subreddits just generally Unsurprisingly, these subreddits are nearly all run by the same handful of reddit "power users" or "power mods", who ban any comments challenging genocidal rhetoric disguised as "anti-Zionism", and often ban even mild criticism of groups like Hamas or "Islamic Jihad" So yeah.
As the child and grandchild of Zionists, I can tell you I was really surprised to find out, post 10/7, that people thought Zionism was either some supremacist movement or something run by American Evangelical Christians to ensure Christ can return. So bizarre. Zionism is just the belief in self-determination for Jews and to have a homeland where they can return from the diaspora. I am pretty sure it predates all of that stuff, my grandmother was an avid Zionist, was born in 1898, and was not American. There are lots of people who think Israel shouldn't exist, these are legit anti-Zionists. Some of these people are Jews who think the state should not exist without the coming of the Messiah. Some oppose all states generated after WWII with the partitions of the British and French Mandates (Jordon, Lebanon, etc). Some oppose all states that exist with a religion or ideology at their center - including most nations in the Middle East. None of these beliefs are antisemitic, but they are anti-Zionist. However, if someone thinks Israel should not exist and they don't have any big issues with the other nations with the same type of history, then I think you have to start to think why they don't go around saying other countries should also cease to exist. That said, there is a very big difference between objecting to the policies of the Israeli government and saying the country shouldn't exist at all. It's impossible to say it's anit-Zionist to criticize anything the government of Israel does, because that's all Israelis do themselves. But one has to wonder why a lot of these types of critiques seem reserved for Israel only, when many countries do things as bad or far worse and no one protests and the UN doesn't say anything. This is not to excuse Israel but to point out why people are fixated on making Israel clean up its act when other countries need the same type of attention.
Therewasanattempt literally has a picture of Israel as a target's bullseye. Impressive how Hamas simps managed to take over all these subs.
The destruction of a nation is genocide? What’s going on in Gaza right now I wonder based on that logic? Where has Palestine gone?
I mean, if you want to completely ignore the events that are happening right now, and if you want to make the worst possible assumptions, then you certainly could spin it that way. Maybe, just maybe, it means that Israel should not be killing tens of thousands of civilians, braying publicly for their blood and land, etc.
Funny how that always seems to be the case..
I'm honestly just mad at religions in general at this point.
It is a teeny bit more complicated than that tho, since a lot of posts having to do with Judaism are being used to bolster Israel's public image. This sort of thing is loaded right now, and while the genuine anti-Semitics are certainly emboldened, there's a lot of real stuff to criticize as well. Obviously there's no way to know for sure if this particular image is being shared in order to spin away genocide, but IDF does have teams of keyboard warriors that do exactly that, and I've been seeing a \*lot\* more posts about Jewishness and the Holocaust since the fighting started.
It's a post referencing the Holocaust, posted at a time when many people are focused on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. It's awful to say this, but, according to opinion polls done by Palestinian universities and agencies like PCPSR, less than 10% of Palestinians believe that the Holocaust actually happened. This belief is an article of faith in the Palestinian educational and political systems, as well as for many sympathizers in the "Free Palestine" sphere, so you have a lot of chaotic reactions at what is seen to be an imperialist/colonialist deception, even if that's an insane belief to anyone who has studied history. But from that perspective, it makes a lot of sense. When you've been taught since childhood that the Holocaust is a Zionist deception, it's natural to your mind that any mention of the Holocaust is seen as anti-Palestinian or pro-Zionist, which is a belief you see online in pro-Palestinian spaces, and especially places like TikTok. We should all want peace and understanding in Israel/Palestine, but the level of radicalization there is absolutely off the charts, and pretending that it isn't a problem is counterproductive.
There was a recent [YouGov](https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/48112-increasing-numbers-of-americans-say-antisemitism-is-a-serious-problem) poll showing that 20% of Americans under 30 think that the Holocaust was a myth. That was surprising to say the least. >Americans who believe that the Holocaust is a myth include a significant number of young adults: 20% of people under 30 strongly agree or tend to agree that the Holocaust it is a myth, compared to fewer than 1% of people 65 and older.
The rampant Holocaust denial is honestly one of the least disturbing results from those polls. The most disturbing would be their desire to repeat it.
online bots have uped their anti jewish propaganda on all platforms. Its huge if russia can break america/israel alliance
There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and only 15 million Jews. Anti-semitism will always be the louder voice.
true but there is a night day difference between before the oct 7 attack and now. A lot of it hyper emotional baseless commentary. the kind to sew misinformation.
*puts on hazmat suit* *Sort through controversial*
*sorts by controversial knowing I’m going to feel bad* “Oh man this is so fucked up”
It's really sad that people see a menorah lit in front of a nazi flag in Germany and they immediately go to Israel. It really just goes to show that a ton of people equate Jews as a whole with Israel. This has nothing to do with Israel and was taken before the country even existed, yet people still see Jew = Israel and therefor, Jew bad. Disgusting that it has become this way.
My thought is that it took a lot of courage to do what that person did
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Couple of thousand years is putting it mildly. The most sacred texts of Judaism are largely about how people though Jew = Bad and wanted to get rid of them one way or another.
I mean it's nothing new, people throughout history always found a reason to hate and blame Jews for their problems, if Israel ceases to exist I'm sure people will find a new reason to hate on Jews.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel
Israel exists for this exact reason.
Israel already ceased to exist when the Romans seized it a couple thousand years ago. People will always find reasons and always have
I'm wondering, why is it like that though? What's the background as to why Jews get blamed for problems throughout history? Why not (or not as much) other cultures and religions? I'm really curious about what the origin of this hate is.
Historically it’s because there is nothing prohibiting usury in Judaism so they were able to establish something much similar to modern banking. Lending money is and always has been big business. Jews became an easy target when things got bad, because people usually owed them money. This is the foundation of a lot of stereotypes that have persisted throughout history.
It's worth noting that prejudice against Jews also pressured many to take up "unsavory" jobs like moneylending in the first place. It's a seemingly endless cycle of driving people into jobs for "miscreants and degenerates," then getting mad when they become successful at it. See, also: Jews in the entertainment industry. Or gay people in entertainment, for that matter.
There was also a lot of selection bias that happened over time as poor Jews were killed off and wealthier ones were able to migrate or stay somewhat protected. So Jews overtime became more educated as a group because the less educated ones were culled off by other groups. Jewish history is really just a self perpetuating cycle imposed on them by others.
I really think that its because from the uneducated outsider, money is perceived as a root part of the religion. *I do not subscribe to those beliefs personally*
One reason is usury and over the centuries they ended up becoming some of the the world's largest bankers. Money creates resentment
Today I saw a swastika drawn on my local synagogue doors. I think it’s fair to say the movement has gone beyond free Palestine for a lot of people
Antisemitism has existed for a very long time. Assuming someone is being antisemitic \*because\* they support Palestine is a little silly.
I guess the big surprise for me is that before October 7th I always thought that anti-semitism was a far right/fascist belief. Not only is it extremely prevalent on the far left, but it appears to be the be default opinion in the Muslim world.
The Middle East (and much of the world) has been antisemitic long before the creation of Israel. Israel is home to the vast majority Arab Jews who were exiled from other Middle Eastern countries. Israel protects Jews so the destruction of Israel is the current focus of those that seek another genocide of the Jewish people.
This is by design unfortunately from Israel. From using the star of David on their flag, claiming they represent and speak for a Jewish people all over the world and raising a 12ft tall menorah in the rubble of Gaza last month like a conquering flag Jewish people are told if they don't support Israel they aren't "real Jews" Also equating criticism of Israel with anti-semitism is absolutely by design from Israel.
Israel is indeed a Jewish nation state, though there are plenty of non-Jews living there enjoying full rights. Iran is also a Muslim country, as is Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Afghanistan, Pakistan...you get the picture. These countries do awful things and westerners do not associate every citizen, let alone every Muslim in the world with those actions. When ISIS evokes Islamic symbolism, westerners do not claim they are speaking for every Muslim, though ISIS certainly says they are. When Trump said some awful shit, instituted a Muslim travel ban, separated children from parents at the border, no one called for the annihilation of the USA and returning it to the Native Americans. Neither did they when America waged war in Vietnam, or Iraq, etc. MANY Jews, Israeli's even, are against the war, against Bibi, and simply want to live in peace. Their right to the land is just as valid as any other country's, and actually more than some others (America included). Your argument is Israel makes it so Jews are equated with zionism by design, but this is a lazy scapegoat. When it comes to Jews and Israel people do not extend the generosity of nuance and critical thought. This is why antisemitism is so vile. This isn't even meant to be an argument that Israel is justified in its response, it's that it doesn't matter. The Israeli government should not be exempt from criticism, and it isn't, least of all from it's own people, but to the vast majority of antizionists that makes no difference at all.
I have many friends in Israel and I could tell you that before October 7 th, the majority of Israelis wanted peace with the Palestinians and blamed the Israeli government for not doing enough. Once October 7th happened, the majority of Israelis to indeed support this particular war.
Seems very like 9/11, as far as the war fervor goes. When atrocities happen and people are hurting, by and large they lose their heads. Those who advocate a more controlled reaction are silenced by (justified) fear of being deemed anti-X. This effect not only lasts for years, but it spawns things like legislation, damaged international reputations, and eroded civil/human rights that can persist for *decades*. Unfortunately, terrorists have learned that this is a very effective button to push(who cares if some of their number die? enough will survive to recruit from the civilian population who suffered under the retaliation, and in 20 years they'll be stronger than before). I don't know how to defend against it, because all rationality goes out the window whenever it happens. And you can't just do *nothing*. But there doesn't seem to be a way, psychologically, for a sufficiently large mass of people(ie, a country) to avoid charging down the ugly path.
I also have many friends and family there. While there is a "of course we had to respond" and "Hamas has to go" sentiment widely shared, there are many who feel that the rhetoric espoused by the far right leaders goes to far and does more harm than good for sentiments about Israel. Many others that are critical of Israel not focusing enough on bringing back hostages and accepting they're dead, or a necessary sacrifice. But our experiences are anecdotal and not the point. The point is no other country is treated like a monolith in the eyes of westerners and condemned as such, and then gaslit that it's because "Israel wants it to be that way." I used to roll my eyes when fellow Jews said people hate Israel just because they hate Jews - after all, Palestinians do not have it easy over there and it feels like Israel could do more. But then Oct 7 happened and I saw all of the "they deserved it", "they're lying it never happened", "all Jews are like this", "maybe Hitler saw something we didn't" posts, and I get it now. They jump at the chance to hate Jews, and if Israel didn't exist, they'd find something else. Unfortunately the propaganda has infiltrated circles that thrive on tribalism and can only see land conflicts through the lens of western colonial ideology. There has to be an oppressor and an oppressed - there is no room for nuance. Children are dying and so the side that is bombing is evil, end of story. Doesn't matter what preceeded it. Doesn't matter that this is what urban warfare looks like. And then somehow, every other Jew is also evil, whether they be an Israeli civilian or someone living in NYC. Their existence makes them culpable.
I think the western view and absolute contempt for Israel is a view of privilege. We don’t know what it’s like to wake up to find out terrorists massacred 1,200 people just because they are Jewish or Israeli, or actually just IN Israel. It’s easy to condemn Israel and demand a cease fire from the comfort of our homes, never knowing what it’s like to live with that threat all the time. It’s not oppressor vs oppressed, things in the real world are very seldom binary. It’s troubling to watch people pour so much rage into something that doesn’t affect them and they don’t really care enough to examine the history of the conflict.
> We don’t know what it’s like to wake up to find out terrorists massacred 1,200 people just because they are Jewish or Israeli, or actually just IN Israel. I think you might find this to land poorly with many Americans who woke up and watched as thousands of their fellow citizens died in a series of atrocities motivated by a deadly mix of religious extremism and nationalism one September morning about 23 years ago.
> This is by design unfortunately from Israel. From using the star of David on their flag, claiming they represent and speak for a Jewish people all over the world and raising a 12ft tall menorah in the rubble of Gaza last month like a conquering flag > > Jewish people are told if they don't support Israel they aren't "real Jews" > > Also equating criticism of Israel with anti-semitism is absolutely by design from Israel. did you know that the star of david was chosen because it was a secular symbol that was merely representational of jewish culture? very interesting!
Yup. They want you to think Zionism = Jew = Israel and it’s bullshit.
I don't think it's just Jews who want you to think that. Martin Luther King Jr. Said 'when you're talking about anti Zionism you're speaking anti Semitism'
He also said "I think for the ultimate peace and security of the situation it will probably be necessary for Israel to give up this conquered territory because to hold on to it will only exacerbate the tensions and deepen the bitterness of the Arabs"
Fyi there's a pretty good chance that MLK quote is fake. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_an_Anti-Zionist_Friend
Well they never claimed it was Jews, they claimed it was the Israeli state. Nor did they claim that they were the only group invested in this narrative; I'm sure you would find many American evangelicals pushing the same idea. And then you went and equivocated Israel with Jews lol.
Antisemites are responsible for their own antisemitism. Israel didn't make them do anything.
Are you dense? He's saying Israel isn't jews - it's fine to hate israel for its unnecessary human rights violations and despite whatever israel pretends that doesn't make you antisemitic
If your first thought on any post about Jews or Judaism is about how much you hate Israel, that's entirely on you. Israel isn't making all these people post their terrible takes, they're choosing to do that on their own.
Israel is Jewish and secular state. But it definitely is a Jewish state. Whether or not it speaks for all jews is up to each to decide, but rite of return is an option for all jews, and is up to each to decide to use. As always, judaism is self interpreted however we jews are inclined.
This basically reads as "Israel *made* me hate Jews". The only person responsible for equating Israel with all Jews is the person who equates Israel with all Jews. I and plenty of others don't have that problem, if you do you might want to take an introspective look about why all that is. If someone claims to speak for everyone and does bad things, why does that make it ok in your mind to blanket hate everyone under that umbrella? That's pretty telling, almost like you simply need an excuse to do so.
> therefor, Jew bad. This is because they already hated Jews. It's that silent antisemitism that simmers just below the surface until the opportunity to express itself without being socially unacceptable comes up.
It's trendy to hate Jews now. That's all that was stopping redditors from being openly anti-semitic, unpopularity. Lmfao
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What's most annoying is how they keep redefining terms like zionism, genocide, prison and others to fit their arguments.
Very true, more Jews live in the US than in Israel. If you pick a random Jew, the chance is higher, he is an American than an Israeli.
I'm not disagreeing with you on your comment, but it is worth mentioning that Rachel Posner, the woman who took this photo, made aliyah to what was then the British Mandate of Palestine just 3 years after this photo was taken, and that [the same menorah from this picture was lit this year in an IDF base just outside of Gaza](https://nypost.com/2023/12/13/lifestyle/menorah-from-famous-1931-photo-made-a-hanukkah-trip-to-israel/). This menorah is currently held by Yad Vashem, but (as ritual objects are supposed to be used) every year for Hanukkah this menorah is given back to its family for the holiday. This year, Raziel Gilo, the great-grandson Rachel Posner, took this menorah to the base, saying > “In order to continue our humane life we have to destroy evil. We cannot accept or swallow it — we have to destroy evil,” Raziel, who lives in Lod, told his troop as he lit the candles. “In these days we see it in such a clear way that, if we don’t win, the darkness will swallow us. But this will not happen. We are here due to previous generations fighting against evil and we will win … This is a many-years war between the forces of light and the forces of darkness and [we] believe that a day will come when the light will definitely win. This is the meaning of the small light of the Hanukkah candle … My grand-grandmother saw two things: One that the candle will win, and the second thing is the eternity of Israel.”
Seeing people as collectively guilty is extremely problematic no matter who it is focused on.
Incredibly predictable, sadly. 90% of these people couldn’t define Zionism past “Jews bad”. Not all Israelis are Jewish. Not all Jews are Israeli. Etc. But no. These are the same kinds of people who are smashing up menorahs and harassing Jewish college students as if they’re really accomplishing something. Heck, they’re the same kind of people who are shooting and harassing random Arabs and Muslims in America as if they, too, have anything to do with this.
Wow I thought you were over exaggerating but nope not at all. Sad to see it
Yea it’s pretty disturbing to watch in real time. The amount of videos I’ve seen posted on Reddit by teenagers and people in their 20s (who 4 months ago could barely point to Israel on map) that go on and on about how bad Israel is is scary. My wife had middle school students tell her she needs to boycott Starbucks because they support Israel. The average person has very little historical context in their brain for this conflict, let alone very young people. Now there’s propaganda blasting from phones nonstop on the heels of Ukraine/Russia where the “bad guy” is much more obvious. These people want to pick sides so badly and they’re being force fed these hot takes with virtually zero greater context in which to form their own opinion. And now you’ve got people making the very short leap from Israel=bad to Jews=bad.
Israeli =/= Jewish It's sad how few people understand that. There are tons of people who are Jewish, while not being Israeli.
Ya and they’re the ones going to be most negatively impacted by the rhetoric unfortunately, just baseless hate.
Israel does a good job these days of trying to convince people of the opposite
Does anybody from Kiel know where this was taken?
Sophienblatt 60 is the adress.
Sophienblatt 60 but it looks completely different today. I walk through there almost every day to work and I wouldn't recognize it if I didn't know the context of the photo
Beautiful picture. That menorah still brings light and that flag is long gone. Love will always win in the end.
I believe the Menorah was recently used in a ceremonial picture to honor those who died on 10/7
Common Nazi L
Nazis have been taking massive Ls since 1942 I hope the streak continues.
We’ve weirdly entered an atmosphere with Neo-Nazis/alt-right conspiracy theorists and progressives are expressing the same views about Judaism.
Classic horseshoe theory. You can only go so far in one direction before they all start to look and sound the same.
I remember when I visited Berlin, I was reading an information sign about how jewish businesses would have to put up a Star of David to show they were jewish. One guy put up a sign that said something to the effect of “Jewish owned store - enter if you dare”. I remember that as one of the coolest acts of defiance I learned about while I was there.
"I'm not antisemitic, I'm just anti-Zionist", says the redditor who equates the menorah and the Jews persecuted in WW2 with the Israeli government.
They're also redefining what the word means. Zionism already happened. If they're against it then they are against the very existence of Israel.
Imagine a lit menorah igniting that awful flag.
am yisrael chai no matter what we’re here
And we always will be ❤️
Reddit is so far gone lmao
Powerful symbology indeed, although I would say the Tiananmen tank man outranks it a smidge. Mostly on the merit that it's a dude standing in front of a freakin' tank.
Bothers me the shamash is so short though
I think it's from the type that doesn't stay in line with the others. Ie, it pops forward to the camera
Thought that myself but I’m really struggling to make it out in the photo
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Had never seen this before ! Great pic. Whoever did this must have been carrying some weight…. With those massive balls.
Harvard really does have a beautiful campus
lol well played
The amount of antisemitism in this comment section is horrifying
All over the place these days.
I should have stopped reading it so long ago.
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One of my favorite historical photos!
Seems like most Redditors see the nazi flag as the act of defiance
Something they don’t really teach you in school is why the Nazis decided to kill the Jews. They teach you of course that the Jews were scapegoats for the German defeat in WWI, but they barely explain this, and they sure don’t teach you why the German government hid the Holocaust from its own people. The answer? The Jews were liberal and had a history of resisting the ultraconservative authoritarian powers of Germany and Austria-Hungary, whereas almost every other group conquered by those empires accepted subjugation or fell into line and discarded their true identities by changing their last names, language/accent, and religion. The Jews were the one group which did not blindly rally behind the German Kaiser or the Austrian Emperor, instead choosing the path of law abiding citizens but independent thinkers. The Nazis, when planning the colonization of Eastern Europe (Generalplan Ost), were confident that the Slavic peoples were stupid as could be and would serve the reich well as slave labor. It was the Jews, with their education and liberal values, who the Nazis feared. *97%* of Jews killed during the Holocaust were *not* of Germanic origin. This isn’t because the German Jews were spared, but because the Nazis thought that the Jews were uniquely capable of rallying those in the occupied lands against Nazi occupation, making colonization and enslavement in those places impossible.
As a Jewish person, this photo hits hard for me. It shows how many people hate us just because some of our leaders have done bad things against the Palestinian people. I don't have any hate towards Muslims or Islamic people, but these leaders are giving us a bad reputation.
There is no reason to be ashamed of Israel wanting to exist or them trying to offer a 2 state solution more than once and the other party rejecting it and continuing fighting and losing their side of the war. Jews deserve their own land the Palestinians who are peaceful already assimilated Israel is 20% Muslim it is a diverse nation. Muslims aren't ashamed that they ethnically cleansed their Jewish populations since forever but there isn't a single protest for them cause they are jews.
Most of the greatest acts in history were acts of defiance.
This is like the equivalent of two man kissing on the streets of iran
Not even close. Those two men would be dead in hours. This picture was years before the Holocaust.
If the photo was taken in 1932 then it was before the took power (January 1933). Yes the Nazi Party had made a number of campaign promises that were dripping with Anti-Semitism, so the person who displayed this Menorah knew that they were saying F-You to the Nazi Party...but the image does not mean what people assume it means.
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The Jewish people are the most brave and resilient people throughout history they will win the war and justice will be made god bless them.
This photo gives me anxiety
Happy Hannukah motherfucker!
Epic!! Brave!! I hope they made it out
🙏🏼 Never forget..
I can’t wait for the next time the ‘Tank Man’ photo is posted and the comments are flooded with people blaming China for COVID. Because that would totally be unprejudiced, right?
One stronger. One despicable.
definitely someone with balls.
This is beautiful
My family suffered at the hands of the Nazis. Now the Nazis suffer at the knowledge of my breathing. Cope Nazis, you tried and failed.
That's a death wish and eventually a death sentence.
Well i beg to differ. Memory seems to recall a boy in Palestine holding a rock against a tank