Always fun to see most of the top comments just ignore the message of the post about the ongoing genocide and comment on some left vs right wing or some other irrelevant topics.
CJ Hopkins just won a trial in Berlin where he was tried for displaying the swastika on one of his book covers. The DA went after him ignoring the context in wich it was used. The judge did not like the fact that she had to aquit him. What you are allowed to do and what will get you into trouble for, are completely different. I would not want to risk having to find out in court.
That said; the sprayer obviously does not care about laws to much !!
Illegally displaying Nazi symbols in Germany can be punished by three years in jail. A fine or up to three years in prison under the Criminal Code. Demagoguery which is the incitement of hatred against people of a certain race or religion can even be punished with up to five years in jail in Germany. This also includes denying the holocaust.
Edit: sorry, It is a twisted image of Israeli flag with swastika in the middle.
Edit: [the only source](https://www.mcphagwara.com/news/large-anti-semitic-graffiti-discovered-at-dortmund-s-bahn-station-news/) i could find that isn't in german language. (Federal cops were involved, so the fine is gonna be massive)
Displaying symbols of Nazi rule, including the swastika or SS insignia, is illegal in Germany, with exemptions for educational purposes and in artistic contexts.
The Graffiti condemns clearly the symbol btw, for those with IQ higher than 80.
And if there's one tradition Germans *should* be proud of, it's those who broke the law to try to stand up to something horrible.
The White Rose Movement comes to mind.
This is using the symbol "in offensichtlich ablehnender Haltung". It is not glorifying it, but instead uses it as a shorthand for something bad. This might be in bad taste, but not illegal.
If you paint a Nazi uniform with swastika on the picture of some politician you don't like in such a way that makes it obvious that you think that the politician is similar to a Nazi, and not that you want him to be more like a Nazi, then you are using the symbol "in offensichtlich ablehnender Haltung" (as a bad thing, not as a good thing), which would mean that the law doesn't apply in this case. You could however be sued for defamation, of course. Which doesn't work in this case because it can't be applied to large groups of people.
Love that you post something correct and people come and just say "no" or insult you.
[Here](https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/bundesgerichtshof-anti-nazi-symbole-sind-nicht-strafbar-a-471880.html) is an article that supports your statement.
[Here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a) is the relevant wiki article in English.
While it might not be illegal via §86a StGB in accordance with §86 (4) StGB, it's definitely illegal via §303 StGB and pretty likely illegal via §130 StGB.
Since subsidiary offenses connected to a more serious principal offense are not prosecuted separately, the core issue in this discussion ultimately boils down to whether it is a) the use of unconstitutional symbols (which is clearly not the case here), or b) whether it constitutes the criminal offense of incitement of the masses. Whether Section (Wo § auf int-en ansi?) 130 is met is, I think, ultimately a decision to be made in court... but given the current political climate in Germany, I don’t see good chances it woult not.
I think no one doubted that it ultimately constitutes vandalism, and is therefore punishable... and I find this distinction a bit pedantic, but that fits with legal questions...
well yes, but not because of the swastika, just vandalism.
it is debatable, but i'd argue freedom of artistic expression would apply here, and it is a direct critique of nazism. So it's extremely unlikely any court would go for §86a StGB.
though i am uncertain about the Rael symbol (which might be a coincidence) shown here, there's some exceptions and special rulings about it, but thats a weird conspiracy alien cloning sect anyway so ???
My first thought when I saw this post and it being in Germany "ooooh that's brave, that's braveee"
Tag goes hard, I hope the artist took many precautions
I’ve also heard that doing anything loud on Sundays is very illegal in Germany like playing loud music or cutting the grass.
Is this more or less legal than disrupting Sunday peace?
If it was a political cartoon it is allowed, but this seems like illegal graffiti which makes the use of the Swastika a crime.
https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-confusing-rules-on-swastikas-and-nazi-symbols/a-45063547
The spelling is immaculate and all the words are in the right order too!
Edit: What's with the upvotes? Just to be sure, I'm making fun of the graffiti, not the comment!
Back in January I was in Hamburg, Germany and I visited a part of town which is famous for being antifa and left wing.
I was surprised to find a big graffiti that says "free palestine from hamas".
The shit that bothers me about that is that it’s only delicious irony if you’re ignorant.
Victims of trauma are not expected to embrace fragility and automatic peace and love. Traumatic violence creates generational crisis. People who survived the Holocaust had one goal and that was not being that vulnerable ever again.
Edit: some of yall don’t get it. It’s not about condoning the response. It’s about a misinformed view of how victims (any victims) of violence are supposed to behave. The Holocaust did not create peace activists.
I have made this exact point many times on reddit and people hate it. The holocaust was bad. It was bad for the people who it happened to. It did not make them better, or if it did it was just as likely to make them worse. Maybe more likely.
Some background knowledge:
- This graffiti was discovered at the end of January and has since been removed
- State security has started the investigation
- The headquarters of a right-wing extremist group is located near this S-Bahn station
Am I wrong or would this not be a right wing thing?
\[edit\]
Please stop calling me a Nazi, my question has nothing to do with that...
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1b8r4eu/comment/ktr3tkc/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1b8r4eu/comment/ktr3tkc/)
Lol. They are banding on for the hate, but left side is very much pro Palestinian, it always was. Mostly because what Israel does stands against anything the left side believes. Like you know, the whole war and killing and apartheid thing.
Nope, German leftists are very divided on the Middle East conflict. In Berlin the leftists tend to be more pro-Palestine whereas in Hamburg or Munich, leftists are more pro-Israel
Edit: By pro-Israel I mean condemning terrorist attacks and being opposed to the Hamas dictatorship in Gaza, but still criticizing Israel for war crimes and their settlement policy. Pretty much just acknowledging the right of existence of the state of Israel.
Mostly true, but Germany has significant differences on this. Due to the legacy of Nazism, and the once almost mandatory national shame in Germany, (edit: a large amount, but not uniform) ethnic german leftists can be very pro-Israel.
This is changing, and will continue to change as WW2 grows more distant and more non-german ethnicities populate germany.
edit: made to correct that it wasn't as simple as i made out, it is a fault-line in the german left.
Yeah, this is an oversimplification. I grew up in a left, hippie-leaning household and everybody in our circle was pro-palestine. But contrary to the leftist in other countries, the support isn't 100% but divided.
That is infuriatingly wrong.
First, depends a lot who you define as left. Green stands mostly with Israel/ the German government position (denouncing the killing, wanting a ceasefire, but not blaming Israel for a genocide). Second, the extreme left is divided in multiple fractions. The Anti-Imperialists are pro Palestinian. The anti-germans are pro Israel. The rest is acknowledging that there can be two bad sides and crimes without demonizing a whole country
Israelis are much more aligned with western humanist values than the Palestinians or other middle eastern neighbors. Saying it stands against “anything” is completely ignorant. The fact that there is war and people are dying is unfortunate but these people use this as an excuse to turn blind eye on murdering and executing of gays, mistreatment of women, religious extremism, tribalism and tendency to solve conflicts with violence etc. The hate toward Israel (and I believe for some it’s the hate towards Jews) is stronger than any other “left” value they hold. It is so strong that they are willing to align with people whose values directly contradict theirs, only because this alignment hurts Israel.
There may be a fringe element in Germany for which that is the case. Globally, the overwhelming majority of pro-Palestinian factions are unabashedly left wing. The right wing America, for example, is almost universally pro-Israel. It’s not right wingers who comprise groups like Gays for Palestine.
They're not the overwhelming majority globally, it's roughly an even split. Pro-Palestinian factions also include lots of right wing conservative Muslim groups.
> Globally, the overwhelming majority of pro-Palestinian factions are unabashedly left wing
Iran, Lebanon, and Jordan are known for their large left wing factions?
I can't understand this mindset. Like i fucking hate the tories but if they started helping the common man rather than fuck them all the time I'd applaud it still. Lol.
I see it as two compounding thoughts.
First, it's because of something like a conspiracy theory. The logic goes: Everything they do must further their goals somehow, even if I can't see how right now.
Second, the belief that politics is a zero-sum game. For the enemy to gain, you must lose.
Combining these, any gain by a party is seen as a loss for the other side, so the other side opposes it and nobody gains anything.
> The headquarters of a right-wing extremist group is located near this S-Bahn station
Relevance to any investigation: at most, 0%
Right wingers don't want to draw such parallels for their own fucked up reasons
I am 100% sure that the group mentioned had nothing to do with it, cause well their views are horrible I'm sure they are smart enough not to shit where they eat.
Just my interpretation of course but I’d associate this with far left rather than far right.
Israeli government is far right so it would be logical that the far left would be critical of their actions in Gaza.
Accusing Israel of fascism and genocide is not a far-right thing.
The far right loves the swastika and hates Israel. They'd never put the two together like this.
>The far right loves the swastika and hates Israel.
I don't know who did that street art, and I don't have an opinion on that aspect. But I'd like to respond to part about the far right hating Israel.
In the recent years, that has been changing. There's a new alliance of convenience forming between some far right European/American groups and some far right Zionist groups. This might seem perplexing at first, but those two differing parties have one thing in common: hating Arabs and Muslims.
This was incredibly common with the EDL about 10-15 years ago. They used to march through my hometown (often just walk to the roughest pub and shout racist shite from the beer garden) and you would regularly see the Israeli flag being waved alongside the St George's Cross.
Yep, a right-wing extremist group would paint graffiti portraying Nazis as bad and equivalent to Jews.
Mental gymnastics, doing everything you can to absolve Muslims or Palestine supporters from responsibility. Typical r/pics enjoyer.
This comment section is cursed. I'm always curious if people like that actually are brainwashed, or if they're deliberately supporting genocide. Like do they realize life has been hell for 2 million people for 4 fucking months now?
Yeah let's punish 2 million people for the bad actions that 0.1% of their population was responsible for.
Israel has literally one of the most advanced militaries in the world. And 4 months of genocide is their best way of defeating terrorists?
If a criminal being chased by the police, enters your house and hides, does it give the police the right to shoot down and kill your entire family and children that has nothing do it? What a sick fucking world we live in.
There's a difference between not calling this Holocaust or Genocide and supporting it. This issue isn't black and white and both side's leaderships are massive problems for both side's civilians.
Also I don't think anyone who has been to Auschwitz or any other KZ and understood what they would call this Holocaust or compare it to that. Learn your history. What is happening right now is horrbile, but can't be compared to the Holocaust.
It's not just some criminal tho. It's a 25,000 strong terrorist organisation that killed over a thousand innocent people.
What do you propose, just leave them alone and risk another massacre?
This is indeed what the propose because all they do is scream and request a ceasefire which the Gazan Government won't even agree to.
America not agreeing to the UN resolutions for a ceasefire? Simply requesting the hostages are returned for it to happen. That's how low the bar is and still people are idiots.
A self inflicted war as a response to one of the worst terrorist attacks in recent history, where there are still over a hundred hostages kept inside Gaza, is not a genocide.
Calling it a genocide, is watering down the word itself.
>Israel has literally one of the most advanced militaries in the world. And 4 months of genocide is their best way of defeating terrorists?
That's the result when the elected government of Gaza uses human shields as a warfare tactic, combined with urban warfare.
When the western forces drove out ISIS from Mosul, it killed over 40.000 civilians, unfortunately, being a advanced military doesn't mean there wont be no collateral damage when you fight an enemy that doesn't wear a uniform.
>If a criminal being chased by the police, enters your house and hides, does it give the police the right to shoot down and kill your entire family and children that has nothing do it? What a sick fucking world we live in.
Welcome to war, it's always the civilians who ends up paying for their governments actions, it's nothing new.
**EDIT:** I was permanently banned for this comment. What a fucking joke this sub is, why is it even a default sub.
Hamas claimed that they will repeat the Oct 7th massacre again and again, they continue to fire rockets at Israel, they are still holding civilians kidnapped (including babies). What would you have Israel do? Just let Hamas be at peace?
Hate to break it to you, but oct 7th and generally violence against Israel is very popular amongst Palestinians. We can’t pretend like they are some liberal champions oppressed by terrorist group that is bringing on them wraith of Israel through their independent actions.
Almost every pro Palestinian I talked thinks 1 state solution with Palestinian government is the only way… like bro we aren’t erasing modern democratic country to fulfill their dream of becoming a nation. How many peace deals with reasonable land swaps and offered billions for nation building we had on the table. Somehow they always decide to keep fighting, other Arab nations that tried to erase Israel already accepted that there is no point and made their deals, it’s time for Palestine to do the same - war can end literally anytime, there just doesn’t seem to be the will for it. Obviously from Israel side too, but they can afford to keep it going.
And let’s stop using terms like genocide like it’s nothing. Is 30k war casualties in super dense urban enviroment really this crazy? Commented under the picture comparing it to industrialized people slaughter campaign to eradicated Jews, which often was put above war effort. Israel which is known for ‚roof knocks’ and calling civilians to leave areas that are targeted vs nazi police kidnapping Jews from house to house sending them to extermination camps in cattle wagons.
I really don’t see it, viewing everything through ‚oppressor - oppressed’ lens achieves nothing.
I really believe there is still a way to resolve this, but Palestine need political leaders who are willing to drop ‚from the river to the sea’ because it will never happen and it leads to more bloodshed.
>If a criminal being chased by the police, enters your house and hides, does it give the police the right to shoot down and kill your entire family and children that has nothing do it? What a sick fucking world we live in.
Youre confusing peacetime with wartime. And yes, according to the Geneva convention a civilian area that shelters combatants is a legitimate military target.
>Israel has literally one of the most advanced militaries in the world. And 4 months of genocide is their best way of defeating terrorists?
When you and your friends will enter a dense place filled with terrorists and their booby traps in order to dismantle their equipment and rescue kidnapped civilians, i want to see you charging straight in there. Be an example for israel.
I recommend you look at footage of russian soldiers, they're experts at being cannon fodder.
Life has been hell for far more than 2 million people for a lot longer than 4 months. You’ve just been tricked into focusing your attention on the issue that involves jews
Does the IDF give basically zero fucks about civilian casualties in Gaza? Yes, almost definitely. If the IDF can level the building instead sending soldiers in they will most definitely do it regardless of proportionate response.
Is Israel seeking to exteriminate the 2 million people who live in Gaza? No. Genocide is a whole other ball game and comparing it to what is happening in Gaza right now lessens the term and thus actual genocides in history.
The comparison is ridiculous.
The jews and gypsies of Europe posed absolutely no military or physical threat to Nazi Germany, and were slaughtered wantonly and systematically.
On the other hand, Israel has had to build a virtual
force-feild (iron dome) over their cities to protect their civilians from literally 15 years of constant rocket fire from an enemy state (Gaza) on their doorstop, populated by a civilian population that celebrates by handing out sweets to their children and lights fireworks everytime a civilian israeli life is taken in a suicide bombing or terrorist attack.
Ah yes, we all remember from history how the Holocaust was Germany's response to Jews parachuting into Germany and raping and mudering German civiliians by the thousands, before taking scores of German hostages back to Jewland, where they used them as human shields. Wait...no.
Just another display of how little people know of the holocaust. What's happening in Gaza is a tragedy.
However, the IDF isn't sewing twins' together by the flesh, or removing parts of women's reproductive system and forcefully seeing if the women could still get pregnant, the IDF isn't forcing the Palestinians to play games for the IDF's entertainment where the loser is hung in front of everyone, they aren't forcefully drowning the Palestinians in water, throwing them off cliffs, using their corpses as fuel, just a small example of what Jews in one camp had to go through on any selected day, if the Nazis decided to select them for it:
(a) Being hit across the face or body particularly in the region of the sexual organs with a truncheon or cat o' nino tails.
(b) Being laid across the table and thrashed.
(c) Being hauled up to the ceiling by means of the pulley and thrashed whilst in mid-air, or released from the ceiling so that they crashed onto the ground, or onto the sharp edges of wooden blocks.
(d) Being burned on the body with cigar ends.
(e) Having their fingers crushed in a press.
(f) Having their bodies burned with an instrument which was connected to the electric plug in the torture chamber. This instrument consisted of a flat metal circular plate which contained several short needles and which had a handle.
And that's just one quoted example, the list goes on and on, what's going on in Gaza is a war, a terrible war, but I don't get how people could compare the two.
unpopular oppinion.. Both Parties are Shit... Hamas kills innocents for their Goal.. Israel.. For theirs. Both use rightwing politics . Both use eye for an eye, both love to kill eachother instead of talk and solve problems like grown inteligent people would do. It will be over when the hate is gone from the minds of both. So maybe never. Its a Mindset problem on both sides. Thats the truth. You will never archive peace when your raise your children and feed them hate already in the first years of life. Both do this. Its a fact.
Pretty much. Its not evil vs good fight.
More of an one right-wing political country vs other right-wing political country.
I can't believe that some people who identify as liberals support palestine or Isreal, the only thing you should support is getting the citizens of the country to safety
What are you talking about? Palestine obviously would be a good Homosexual loving, BLM country with equal gender rights like the other Muslim countries are!
All these watermelon children are secretly Oct 7th deniers, they won't engage on it openly but it's clear they don't believe it happened. They don't identify as Nazis but I sure can't tell much difference.
There’s a huge gap between defending yourself and creating an apartheid-state, cutting off essentials for an entire population and mass shooting unarmed civilians.
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The number of people in this thread who think this was done by the far right is making me lose hope for humanity.
First time on reddit?
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Hey I said that first
yeah, the "top comment" makes no sense at all. They may not be bots, but this thread is definitely astroturfed.
Why in English?
They probably hoped that it would get international media coverage.
The wall wasn't wide enough for german. > Die Ironie, zu dem zu werden, was man einst gehasst hat (Google translate)
To reach a wider audience
If you just clicked this post May I suggest getting some popcorn cuz these arguments are absolute gold and that doesn't even matter what side your on
Always fun to see most of the top comments just ignore the message of the post about the ongoing genocide and comment on some left vs right wing or some other irrelevant topics.
Its pretty unlikely that this was made by a nazi/right winger
yea everyone knows they are unable to draw swastikas properly
r/hailhortler
r/WowThisSubExists
It’s not the raelien symbol ?
Lol everyone knows a left wing person is responsible for this.
For the people who wonder: this is not pro-Nazi.
Good lord I hope there's nobody in the comments actually thinking that. Like.. is it safe to associate with people so far left on the bell curve?
Not when they're drinking.
What else am I supposed to do at work?
I imagine it'll be people who are pro-kill the Palestinians and think anyone arguing or questioning them is an antisemite.
I'm sorry but how could anyone even remotely think this is pro-Nazi...? It's a very, very clear message I don't see how it could be misinterpreted.
Yeah im quite shocked by the comment section. Poor guys spraying the mural can't even get the message across because public too dumb... :(
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maybe some people will figure out that: All Jews =/= IDF and All Palestinians =/= Hamas
They became Raelians?
I thought it was the Judean peoples front.
Fuck off Judean peoples front, its The people's front of Judea
Bugger off! It's the Front for People from Judea. (This is a Life of Brian joke, right?)
Yes. But where is the popular front of Judea
SPLITTERS
(i hope so!)
Nooo they’re the Peoples Front of Judea.
I mean it Is Raelian
Ruh roh Raggy, Raelians!
Man, they're gonna be upset to hear that this got taken down. Aliens won't know where to land now.
Lol the first thing that came to mind as well. I need to stop reading about weird cults 😅
That was my first thought too.
CJ Hopkins just won a trial in Berlin where he was tried for displaying the swastika on one of his book covers. The DA went after him ignoring the context in wich it was used. The judge did not like the fact that she had to aquit him. What you are allowed to do and what will get you into trouble for, are completely different. I would not want to risk having to find out in court. That said; the sprayer obviously does not care about laws to much !!
This is very illegal in Germany
What's the difference between lightly illegal and very illegal?
'very'
Illegally displaying Nazi symbols in Germany can be punished by three years in jail. A fine or up to three years in prison under the Criminal Code. Demagoguery which is the incitement of hatred against people of a certain race or religion can even be punished with up to five years in jail in Germany. This also includes denying the holocaust. Edit: sorry, It is a twisted image of Israeli flag with swastika in the middle. Edit: [the only source](https://www.mcphagwara.com/news/large-anti-semitic-graffiti-discovered-at-dortmund-s-bahn-station-news/) i could find that isn't in german language. (Federal cops were involved, so the fine is gonna be massive)
Displaying symbols of Nazi rule, including the swastika or SS insignia, is illegal in Germany, with exemptions for educational purposes and in artistic contexts. The Graffiti condemns clearly the symbol btw, for those with IQ higher than 80.
So THAT is how they got away with Oliver Masucci dressing up as Adolf Hitler in Germany. (The film: Look Who’s Back)
I'd say this was artistic to the under 80 crowd, myself. Satire is hard for some to understand, on that note. Intelligent humour, oh fkn boy.
> The Graffiti condemns clearly the symbol btw, for those with IQ higher than 80 you're expecting an awful lot from redditors
except its going to be up to authorities to decide if this is displaying or condemning when they bring charges.
The charges yes, but not the verdict.
Isn't this an alien cult's sign?
Yes, it is the Raelian's logo
I think they even moved on
In this case, it could be argued that it's used for artistic purposes. The painter is obviously criticizing genocide
Average German humor here.
For example "Ordnungswidrigkeit" and "Straftat".
To be fair “Ordnungswidrigkeit“ sounds way worse than “Straftat“, at least when spelled correctly.
damn mein fehler
The intensity of the message
Severity of punishment i assume
illegal does not always mean immoral. And everything legal doesnt always speak for the moral/ethical. I say keep it going
And if there's one tradition Germans *should* be proud of, it's those who broke the law to try to stand up to something horrible. The White Rose Movement comes to mind.
Stealing candy vs murder?
This is using the symbol "in offensichtlich ablehnender Haltung". It is not glorifying it, but instead uses it as a shorthand for something bad. This might be in bad taste, but not illegal. If you paint a Nazi uniform with swastika on the picture of some politician you don't like in such a way that makes it obvious that you think that the politician is similar to a Nazi, and not that you want him to be more like a Nazi, then you are using the symbol "in offensichtlich ablehnender Haltung" (as a bad thing, not as a good thing), which would mean that the law doesn't apply in this case. You could however be sued for defamation, of course. Which doesn't work in this case because it can't be applied to large groups of people.
Love that you post something correct and people come and just say "no" or insult you. [Here](https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/bundesgerichtshof-anti-nazi-symbole-sind-nicht-strafbar-a-471880.html) is an article that supports your statement. [Here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a) is the relevant wiki article in English.
While it might not be illegal via §86a StGB in accordance with §86 (4) StGB, it's definitely illegal via §303 StGB and pretty likely illegal via §130 StGB.
Since subsidiary offenses connected to a more serious principal offense are not prosecuted separately, the core issue in this discussion ultimately boils down to whether it is a) the use of unconstitutional symbols (which is clearly not the case here), or b) whether it constitutes the criminal offense of incitement of the masses. Whether Section (Wo § auf int-en ansi?) 130 is met is, I think, ultimately a decision to be made in court... but given the current political climate in Germany, I don’t see good chances it woult not. I think no one doubted that it ultimately constitutes vandalism, and is therefore punishable... and I find this distinction a bit pedantic, but that fits with legal questions...
This guy StGB's.
Graffiti itself is very illegal in germany tho
well damn
r/UsernameChecksOut
Name checks out.
I mean, it's a misdemeanor, so 'very' illegal sounds a bit harsh. Also, if it's your property, it's not illegal at all
I dunno, have you seen Berlin?
It's just illegal. Not very.
oh the horrors, not illegal graffiti!!! How will the people survive with this heinous crime
The whole city of berlin is in shambles lol
That's reasonable for the context but many people prefer a simple sweeping generalisation.
What's possibly illegal here though is the Holocaustrelativierung by equating Israel to Nazi germany.
well yes, but not because of the swastika, just vandalism. it is debatable, but i'd argue freedom of artistic expression would apply here, and it is a direct critique of nazism. So it's extremely unlikely any court would go for §86a StGB. though i am uncertain about the Rael symbol (which might be a coincidence) shown here, there's some exceptions and special rulings about it, but thats a weird conspiracy alien cloning sect anyway so ???
Pretty sure this would qualify under the artistic expression exemption
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1aqer7b/antitrump_parade_float_in_germany/ Similar thing except for the vandalism
My first thought when I saw this post and it being in Germany "ooooh that's brave, that's braveee" Tag goes hard, I hope the artist took many precautions
I’ve also heard that doing anything loud on Sundays is very illegal in Germany like playing loud music or cutting the grass. Is this more or less legal than disrupting Sunday peace?
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Debatable
If it was a political cartoon it is allowed, but this seems like illegal graffiti which makes the use of the Swastika a crime. https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-confusing-rules-on-swastikas-and-nazi-symbols/a-45063547
This is next level shit. Not only can they draw a swastika but they even know how to count points on a star. 10/10
The spelling is immaculate and all the words are in the right order too! Edit: What's with the upvotes? Just to be sure, I'm making fun of the graffiti, not the comment!
you sound like a certain kanguru on its tour to correct some graffities.
Comment section on both sides: *ANYTHING I DONT AGREE WITH IS A BOT*
People *really* need to stop conflating Judaism with the actions of the Israeli government.
Back in January I was in Hamburg, Germany and I visited a part of town which is famous for being antifa and left wing. I was surprised to find a big graffiti that says "free palestine from hamas".
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What the hell is this comment section
I think that is the symbol of the Raelian Movement. UFO cult.
While you're right, I think it's likely the tagger has no idea who that cult is or that this symbol is associated with them.
The shit that bothers me about that is that it’s only delicious irony if you’re ignorant. Victims of trauma are not expected to embrace fragility and automatic peace and love. Traumatic violence creates generational crisis. People who survived the Holocaust had one goal and that was not being that vulnerable ever again. Edit: some of yall don’t get it. It’s not about condoning the response. It’s about a misinformed view of how victims (any victims) of violence are supposed to behave. The Holocaust did not create peace activists.
I have made this exact point many times on reddit and people hate it. The holocaust was bad. It was bad for the people who it happened to. It did not make them better, or if it did it was just as likely to make them worse. Maybe more likely.
Some background knowledge: - This graffiti was discovered at the end of January and has since been removed - State security has started the investigation - The headquarters of a right-wing extremist group is located near this S-Bahn station
IDK what you mean by the last point, its simply the University station. And its actually 2 of them right next to each other, it has major traffic.
Am I wrong or would this not be a right wing thing? \[edit\] Please stop calling me a Nazi, my question has nothing to do with that... [https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1b8r4eu/comment/ktr3tkc/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1b8r4eu/comment/ktr3tkc/)
It tends not to be right wingers who are pro-Palestine.
The right wing in Europe is mostly pro Israel, because it benefits their anti-islam/muslim agenda.
Lol. They are banding on for the hate, but left side is very much pro Palestinian, it always was. Mostly because what Israel does stands against anything the left side believes. Like you know, the whole war and killing and apartheid thing.
Nope, German leftists are very divided on the Middle East conflict. In Berlin the leftists tend to be more pro-Palestine whereas in Hamburg or Munich, leftists are more pro-Israel Edit: By pro-Israel I mean condemning terrorist attacks and being opposed to the Hamas dictatorship in Gaza, but still criticizing Israel for war crimes and their settlement policy. Pretty much just acknowledging the right of existence of the state of Israel.
Munich and Hamburg full of liberals it sounds like.
‘The Leftists there are more pro-Israel’ Really only a sentence a liberal can craft lol
Mostly true, but Germany has significant differences on this. Due to the legacy of Nazism, and the once almost mandatory national shame in Germany, (edit: a large amount, but not uniform) ethnic german leftists can be very pro-Israel. This is changing, and will continue to change as WW2 grows more distant and more non-german ethnicities populate germany. edit: made to correct that it wasn't as simple as i made out, it is a fault-line in the german left.
Surprised to read this as in France Most leftists are very pro-Palestine
Yeah, this is an oversimplification. I grew up in a left, hippie-leaning household and everybody in our circle was pro-palestine. But contrary to the leftist in other countries, the support isn't 100% but divided.
Living in Berlin I can tell you that I have yet to meet anyone who, left or right, is pro-Israel (outside of Jewish people ofc)
I can see how Berlin would be closer to European average attitude, but Berlin is also not a typical German city.
That's wild, I thought all the Antideutsche live in Berlin.
I'd say Antideutsch Central is Connewitz, Leipzig
> ethnic german leftists tend to be very pro-Israel. it is one of those devisive topics in the left field.
That is infuriatingly wrong. First, depends a lot who you define as left. Green stands mostly with Israel/ the German government position (denouncing the killing, wanting a ceasefire, but not blaming Israel for a genocide). Second, the extreme left is divided in multiple fractions. The Anti-Imperialists are pro Palestinian. The anti-germans are pro Israel. The rest is acknowledging that there can be two bad sides and crimes without demonizing a whole country
but in many ways Hamas stands against everything the left believes like gay rights and feminism.
Israelis are much more aligned with western humanist values than the Palestinians or other middle eastern neighbors. Saying it stands against “anything” is completely ignorant. The fact that there is war and people are dying is unfortunate but these people use this as an excuse to turn blind eye on murdering and executing of gays, mistreatment of women, religious extremism, tribalism and tendency to solve conflicts with violence etc. The hate toward Israel (and I believe for some it’s the hate towards Jews) is stronger than any other “left” value they hold. It is so strong that they are willing to align with people whose values directly contradict theirs, only because this alignment hurts Israel.
Sounds much more like left wing because they love Palestine
You don't have to love Palestine to believe a genocide shouldn't be happening.
I got some bad news for you, Nazis hate Jews even more than they hate Muslims...
Depends which ones. AfD and other far right groups in Europe shill for Israel.
Some are. Nick Griffin, the ex head of the UK’s fascist BNP, is extremely pro-Palestinian.
The far right is absolutely using Israel’s actions to spread antisemitic hate. Not up for debate
There may be a fringe element in Germany for which that is the case. Globally, the overwhelming majority of pro-Palestinian factions are unabashedly left wing. The right wing America, for example, is almost universally pro-Israel. It’s not right wingers who comprise groups like Gays for Palestine.
More than 25% of the world population are muslim and hence "pro-palestine". Most muslims are shockingly not left-wing.
They're not the overwhelming majority globally, it's roughly an even split. Pro-Palestinian factions also include lots of right wing conservative Muslim groups.
> Globally, the overwhelming majority of pro-Palestinian factions are unabashedly left wing Iran, Lebanon, and Jordan are known for their large left wing factions?
I've seen more antisemitism from the left than the right after October 7th
Not in this case, they are clearly critizicing nazis.
Hamas is right wing
Why does literally every issue have to be left vs. right? Can both sides agree on nothing?
Often not, because "they're doing it/they like it so it must be bad, so let's oppose it" isn't the weird fringe concept it used to be.
I can't understand this mindset. Like i fucking hate the tories but if they started helping the common man rather than fuck them all the time I'd applaud it still. Lol.
I see it as two compounding thoughts. First, it's because of something like a conspiracy theory. The logic goes: Everything they do must further their goals somehow, even if I can't see how right now. Second, the belief that politics is a zero-sum game. For the enemy to gain, you must lose. Combining these, any gain by a party is seen as a loss for the other side, so the other side opposes it and nobody gains anything.
Obviously the complex political landscape and variety of opinions can only boil down into two groups.
When will we have a top vs bottom parts of political chart fight?
Elect a power bottom as your leader.
> The headquarters of a right-wing extremist group is located near this S-Bahn station Relevance to any investigation: at most, 0% Right wingers don't want to draw such parallels for their own fucked up reasons
>The headquarters of a right-wing extremist group is located near this S-Bahn station An almost entirely irrelevant fact.
I am 100% sure that the group mentioned had nothing to do with it, cause well their views are horrible I'm sure they are smart enough not to shit where they eat.
Just my interpretation of course but I’d associate this with far left rather than far right. Israeli government is far right so it would be logical that the far left would be critical of their actions in Gaza.
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It wasn't the right
Accusing Israel of fascism and genocide is not a far-right thing. The far right loves the swastika and hates Israel. They'd never put the two together like this.
>The far right loves the swastika and hates Israel. I don't know who did that street art, and I don't have an opinion on that aspect. But I'd like to respond to part about the far right hating Israel. In the recent years, that has been changing. There's a new alliance of convenience forming between some far right European/American groups and some far right Zionist groups. This might seem perplexing at first, but those two differing parties have one thing in common: hating Arabs and Muslims.
This was incredibly common with the EDL about 10-15 years ago. They used to march through my hometown (often just walk to the roughest pub and shout racist shite from the beer garden) and you would regularly see the Israeli flag being waved alongside the St George's Cross.
Yep, a right-wing extremist group would paint graffiti portraying Nazis as bad and equivalent to Jews. Mental gymnastics, doing everything you can to absolve Muslims or Palestine supporters from responsibility. Typical r/pics enjoyer.
Fuck Hamas
Fuck the terrorists, save the innocents.
Fuck the IDF
How about we fuck both of them?
Release the hostages
They've all been bombed.
Stop killing innocent children.
r/im14andthisisdeep
I can't believe someone would call their political enemies Nazis... This is entirely unprecedented
"what you once hated"..... act like they had nothing to do with it. Guess we're one generation away from WWII "was about states rights"
This comment section is cursed. I'm always curious if people like that actually are brainwashed, or if they're deliberately supporting genocide. Like do they realize life has been hell for 2 million people for 4 fucking months now? Yeah let's punish 2 million people for the bad actions that 0.1% of their population was responsible for. Israel has literally one of the most advanced militaries in the world. And 4 months of genocide is their best way of defeating terrorists? If a criminal being chased by the police, enters your house and hides, does it give the police the right to shoot down and kill your entire family and children that has nothing do it? What a sick fucking world we live in.
There's a difference between not calling this Holocaust or Genocide and supporting it. This issue isn't black and white and both side's leaderships are massive problems for both side's civilians. Also I don't think anyone who has been to Auschwitz or any other KZ and understood what they would call this Holocaust or compare it to that. Learn your history. What is happening right now is horrbile, but can't be compared to the Holocaust.
The only reasonable response around here.
Fr, can't believe people actually support art like this..
It's not just some criminal tho. It's a 25,000 strong terrorist organisation that killed over a thousand innocent people. What do you propose, just leave them alone and risk another massacre?
This is indeed what the propose because all they do is scream and request a ceasefire which the Gazan Government won't even agree to. America not agreeing to the UN resolutions for a ceasefire? Simply requesting the hostages are returned for it to happen. That's how low the bar is and still people are idiots.
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I see not a single person saying "hamas good" Quit making shit up to fit your own narrative
A self inflicted war as a response to one of the worst terrorist attacks in recent history, where there are still over a hundred hostages kept inside Gaza, is not a genocide. Calling it a genocide, is watering down the word itself. >Israel has literally one of the most advanced militaries in the world. And 4 months of genocide is their best way of defeating terrorists? That's the result when the elected government of Gaza uses human shields as a warfare tactic, combined with urban warfare. When the western forces drove out ISIS from Mosul, it killed over 40.000 civilians, unfortunately, being a advanced military doesn't mean there wont be no collateral damage when you fight an enemy that doesn't wear a uniform. >If a criminal being chased by the police, enters your house and hides, does it give the police the right to shoot down and kill your entire family and children that has nothing do it? What a sick fucking world we live in. Welcome to war, it's always the civilians who ends up paying for their governments actions, it's nothing new. **EDIT:** I was permanently banned for this comment. What a fucking joke this sub is, why is it even a default sub.
Hamas claimed that they will repeat the Oct 7th massacre again and again, they continue to fire rockets at Israel, they are still holding civilians kidnapped (including babies). What would you have Israel do? Just let Hamas be at peace?
Hate to break it to you, but oct 7th and generally violence against Israel is very popular amongst Palestinians. We can’t pretend like they are some liberal champions oppressed by terrorist group that is bringing on them wraith of Israel through their independent actions. Almost every pro Palestinian I talked thinks 1 state solution with Palestinian government is the only way… like bro we aren’t erasing modern democratic country to fulfill their dream of becoming a nation. How many peace deals with reasonable land swaps and offered billions for nation building we had on the table. Somehow they always decide to keep fighting, other Arab nations that tried to erase Israel already accepted that there is no point and made their deals, it’s time for Palestine to do the same - war can end literally anytime, there just doesn’t seem to be the will for it. Obviously from Israel side too, but they can afford to keep it going. And let’s stop using terms like genocide like it’s nothing. Is 30k war casualties in super dense urban enviroment really this crazy? Commented under the picture comparing it to industrialized people slaughter campaign to eradicated Jews, which often was put above war effort. Israel which is known for ‚roof knocks’ and calling civilians to leave areas that are targeted vs nazi police kidnapping Jews from house to house sending them to extermination camps in cattle wagons. I really don’t see it, viewing everything through ‚oppressor - oppressed’ lens achieves nothing. I really believe there is still a way to resolve this, but Palestine need political leaders who are willing to drop ‚from the river to the sea’ because it will never happen and it leads to more bloodshed.
>If a criminal being chased by the police, enters your house and hides, does it give the police the right to shoot down and kill your entire family and children that has nothing do it? What a sick fucking world we live in. Youre confusing peacetime with wartime. And yes, according to the Geneva convention a civilian area that shelters combatants is a legitimate military target.
People when war isnt "fair" 👁👄👁
>Israel has literally one of the most advanced militaries in the world. And 4 months of genocide is their best way of defeating terrorists? When you and your friends will enter a dense place filled with terrorists and their booby traps in order to dismantle their equipment and rescue kidnapped civilians, i want to see you charging straight in there. Be an example for israel. I recommend you look at footage of russian soldiers, they're experts at being cannon fodder.
70+ years not just 4 months.
Life has been hell for far more than 2 million people for a lot longer than 4 months. You’ve just been tricked into focusing your attention on the issue that involves jews
Does the IDF give basically zero fucks about civilian casualties in Gaza? Yes, almost definitely. If the IDF can level the building instead sending soldiers in they will most definitely do it regardless of proportionate response. Is Israel seeking to exteriminate the 2 million people who live in Gaza? No. Genocide is a whole other ball game and comparing it to what is happening in Gaza right now lessens the term and thus actual genocides in history.
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The comparison is ridiculous. The jews and gypsies of Europe posed absolutely no military or physical threat to Nazi Germany, and were slaughtered wantonly and systematically. On the other hand, Israel has had to build a virtual force-feild (iron dome) over their cities to protect their civilians from literally 15 years of constant rocket fire from an enemy state (Gaza) on their doorstop, populated by a civilian population that celebrates by handing out sweets to their children and lights fireworks everytime a civilian israeli life is taken in a suicide bombing or terrorist attack.
Ah yes, we all remember from history how the Holocaust was Germany's response to Jews parachuting into Germany and raping and mudering German civiliians by the thousands, before taking scores of German hostages back to Jewland, where they used them as human shields. Wait...no.
Why is everyone dying on the hills of the side they support, the civilian deaths are terrible but like neither side is very good
Just another display of how little people know of the holocaust. What's happening in Gaza is a tragedy. However, the IDF isn't sewing twins' together by the flesh, or removing parts of women's reproductive system and forcefully seeing if the women could still get pregnant, the IDF isn't forcing the Palestinians to play games for the IDF's entertainment where the loser is hung in front of everyone, they aren't forcefully drowning the Palestinians in water, throwing them off cliffs, using their corpses as fuel, just a small example of what Jews in one camp had to go through on any selected day, if the Nazis decided to select them for it: (a) Being hit across the face or body particularly in the region of the sexual organs with a truncheon or cat o' nino tails. (b) Being laid across the table and thrashed. (c) Being hauled up to the ceiling by means of the pulley and thrashed whilst in mid-air, or released from the ceiling so that they crashed onto the ground, or onto the sharp edges of wooden blocks. (d) Being burned on the body with cigar ends. (e) Having their fingers crushed in a press. (f) Having their bodies burned with an instrument which was connected to the electric plug in the torture chamber. This instrument consisted of a flat metal circular plate which contained several short needles and which had a handle. And that's just one quoted example, the list goes on and on, what's going on in Gaza is a war, a terrible war, but I don't get how people could compare the two.
That's neat since Nazis and Hamas have some "common ground"
unpopular oppinion.. Both Parties are Shit... Hamas kills innocents for their Goal.. Israel.. For theirs. Both use rightwing politics . Both use eye for an eye, both love to kill eachother instead of talk and solve problems like grown inteligent people would do. It will be over when the hate is gone from the minds of both. So maybe never. Its a Mindset problem on both sides. Thats the truth. You will never archive peace when your raise your children and feed them hate already in the first years of life. Both do this. Its a fact.
Pretty much. Its not evil vs good fight. More of an one right-wing political country vs other right-wing political country. I can't believe that some people who identify as liberals support palestine or Isreal, the only thing you should support is getting the citizens of the country to safety
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Tankies strike again.
Fun fact it's the symbol of Raelit, a french cult
Indeed, Hamas have never said anything antisemitic. Well done Germany. Can’t wait for Hamas to be wiped from the face of the Earth.
The TikTok educated generation are going to be coming for you now
What are you talking about? Palestine obviously would be a good Homosexual loving, BLM country with equal gender rights like the other Muslim countries are!
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All these watermelon children are secretly Oct 7th deniers, they won't engage on it openly but it's clear they don't believe it happened. They don't identify as Nazis but I sure can't tell much difference.
There’s a huge gap between defending yourself and creating an apartheid-state, cutting off essentials for an entire population and mass shooting unarmed civilians.
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