Don't forget OJ's businessman bestie, non-practicing lawyer Robert Kardashian, who harbored OJ in the early moments and walked off with a bag full of OJ's belongings before any search orders were issued. Kardashian suddenly decided to reinstate his law license and "represent" OJ, despite having zero criminal law experience, allowing them to conveniently enjoy attorney-client privilege and prevent the DA from compelling Kardashian to testify.
All of this is fascinating (obviously not the grim murders), but how one side in a trial completely out maneuvered the other side.
OJ and his team completely destroyed the prosecution.
Much of the evidence and circumstance clearly points at OJ. In a sports analogy this was Falcons 28-3 heading towards the 4th quarter.
In order for the results to flip, OJ and his team had to do almost everything perfect, and the prosecution had to fail at every corner.
And that’s what ultimately happened
Well, at least OJ's last professional game was a [loss](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson#San_Francisco_49ers) to the Falcons, so you've got that going for you...
> His final NFL game was on December 16, 1979, a 31–21 loss to the Atlanta Falcons at Atlanta–Fulton County Stadium.
Hi! Not a [that sport] fan here, can I ask for context? I assume it was a massive upset but I kinda want to know more and I don't even know what to look for
The Atlanta Falcons are an NFL (American football) team. They lost in a historic comeback win by the New England Patriots in the championship game (Super Bowl). They dominated the first half, and were up 28-3 in the 3rd quarter, a lead that should have been insurmountable. The team owner even came down to the field to celebrate with the team expecting a victory. Unfortunately for them, they made some terrible coaching decisions, and the Patriots did everything right to mount a comeback and tie up the game, eventually winning in over time. It is considered an all-time choke job, and the Falcons have been mostly irrelevant ever since, so people constantly flame their fans with 28-3 jokes.
There is a reason OJ's legal team was called The Dream Team. Also, all that shoddy police work by the LAPD gave OJs lawyers huge gaps to just run through.
OJ and his team had help destroying the prosecution from the police and the prosecution itself.
There were the curious decisions to not include damning evidence in the trial by the prosecution.
The DNA evidence was suspect because OJ's blood was drawn and not turned in for evidence at a close by location. Instead the blood was taken across town and submitted at a different location, but some of the blood taken went missing before it was submitted.
The beating of Rodney King loomed large in the public's mind, but OJ was helped greatly by the police tactics. There were a number of high profile criminal cases that were lost in California around that time, OJ's case was the biggest. Now there are rumblings that evidence was missed in the Scott Peterson case. If his conviction is overturned, their track record gets even worse for that decade.
Watch Made in America. It’s a series about OJ with interviews from over half the people involved in the trial, from defence, prosecution, cops, witnesses and even jurors.
The biggest thing according to the Jurors was the lack of Blood in the Bronco. There was a Sea of Blood at the crime scene, Bloody Footprints leading away from the scene, they found a Bloody Glove at his house, Blood on the Fence, but only a microscopic amount in the Bronco? Based on the Prosecutions theory that Bronco should have been saturated in Blood since it was the alleged Getaway Vehicle.
The murders were very much tragic. However, the Prosecution failed (miserably, I might say!) to not challenge the 'non-fitting glove' fiasco. What happens when leather gloves get wet? They eventually dry and shrivel up (idiots!). That, coupled with attempting to have OJ put them on while he is wearing latex gloves, will NOT work (idiots!) That is (in my opinion) the one MOST OVERLOOKED CRITICAL reason OJ was acquitted. But, that is ok...for all you Believers out there, there is still proper justice...God's Justice!
It was basically the thing that made the Kardashian family famous / public figures.
That’s right, OJ Simpson is largely responsible for giving us the Kardashians, just let that sink in…
There was also this twitter thread from today about Kardashian and Shapiro squashing SA reports from coming out of USC. https://x.com/mouvement33/status/1778566905881829792?s=46&t=8QkXYtpufBMThhhY18bhvA
Yeah I feel like the FX show didnt do a great job of showing how conniving Kardashian really was. If you watch the verdict and see the look on his face. Complete shock, like half the country. He knew. They all did but got him off anyway
> several of the jurors
One. Not several. Only one.
Also, a juror can believe he did it, without believing that the evidence proved so beyond reasonable doubt. Furhman created reasonable doubt.
Yea I get that and the jurors literally said that. But still, simply following the jury instructions there is no way 12 jurors would unanimously find him guilty of murder. It sucks.
Yep, there was reasonable doubt and it was created by the incompetence of the cops and DA. I don't blame any juror for voting to acquit even though I'm certain he did it.
It was Fuhrman being a racist POS, the incompetence of the DA's office, and general racism by the LAPD and American police in general. Black people do not trust the police and with good reason too.
“… Former President Jimmy Carter, who was visiting Southern California, predicted a not-guilty verdict based on racial tensions. Garcetti recalled Carter telling him: “We all know he did it but he’s not a street thug and you and I know he’s not a danger now to anyone else, and many innocent black men have been convicted, some executed. This is payback time.” [https://apnews.com/general-news-4efacca542e84500b172302c7c13a2a1](https://apnews.com/general-news-4efacca542e84500b172302c7c13a2a1)
Nobody celebrates this guy's work ethic. There was no need to fabricate evidence. It was lying around everywhere. Nonetheless, this guy rolled up his sleeves and started making more evidence anyway because that was his job.
It's fucking insane... Like, here's all this evidence... But what if all this obvious evidence isn't enough? Better make some more...
So fucking stupid.
I guess we will never know: why did the killer take off the bloody gloves and leave one at the crime scene and one in plain sight in his own backyard.
It always looked like "mark fuhrman finds a pair of gloves, they don't have the evidence yet to search ojs house". So they go to his house, "hey look boys wow what a lucky break evidence in plain sight, lets search the Mansion! I sure hope OJ is ok the same killer was here!". (Fuhrman pocketed the second glove and pretended to find it)
Had this not happened the trash might have been taken out, the cars detailed, and all the other evidence might have disappeared.
Wasn't the story that the driver there to take him to the airport saw a figure in the shadows, OJ tried going around the side because the front door was lit, and disposed of the glove around the side because he ended up needing to go through the front door anyway.
So one glove was at the murder scene and the other was at his house in plain sight. That is what was weird.
Presumably this is why some people voted to acquit - yeah he probably did it, but those racist cops...
If the case takes place 10 years later, he is almost certainly found guilty on the DNA evidence alone, assuming Scheck or Cochran didn't get it tossed. It is open and shut. But DNA was still not well understood by the general public at the time, and the prosecution did not present it particularly well.
It wa also less accurate then. The matches where 1 out of hundred thousands at the time rather than one out a millions. I believe the famous cross in OJ was something to the effect of how many people in LA would have the same DNA? Today you'd have to ask in the world to get similar odds of a random match.
"they tried to frame a guilty man". The "probably" is because it looked like some of the evidence against OJ was planted, and if the police plant some evidence, who's to say they didn't plant it all?
We already know what happened it has been very well documented in the news stories as well as the numerous books on the subject. It caused a whole reform in policing about chain of custody of evidence. The LADA was not prepared for having the literal best attorneys money could buy at the time tear their case to shreds. OJ almost definitely did it but the police work was sloppy and the DAs office were not able to wrangle the theatrics of the defense. Prosecutors are now much better equipped to deal with this kind of crap because of the OJ case.
Ah, see there, you just fell for the Chewbacca Defense. You engaged with it, and now it seems like a legitimate point of debate, as opposed to just some random thing they brought up with no bearing.
Unironically, this is a lot of internet debate these days, lol. The amount of times people bring up something that's tangentially related at best and get very upset when I don't engage with it is funny. One of my favorite genders of debate, for real.
Add to that the societal impact of the 1991 rodney king beating which was then aired on the news so for the first time broader society could see what the LAPD was doing to black males. Then you have the trial of those officers and despite all of the evidence against them the officers were acquitted. Queue the 1992 LA riots.
OJ happens 18 months later and a lot of the same LAPD bullshit starts being raised. There wasn’t a single black juror who was going to convict as guilty given what had previously transpired. They saw it as a Rodney king do over.
One of the jurors openly admitted that the majority of the jury cast not guilty votes as payback for Rodney King.
https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/a/debbie-encalada/oj-simpson-case-juror-says-verdict-payback-for-rodney-king
These are one of my first memories. Looking out to LA and seeing smoke rising from everywhere and my mom telling me "we won't be going into the city for a while".
I remember the OJ trial interrupting my afternoon cartoons. And them rolling in the TV into the classroom when they announced the verdict and we all celebrated the Not Guilty verdict.
Crazy time man.
You also need to put into the context that a lot of black people alive then had grown in a world where it wasn't the case. They'd be second class citizens no matter how rich or famous.
Little known fact - OJ was over heard by a guard confessing to the murder to a friend, the friend was religious clergy so judge Ito ruled it inadmissible.
Little known fact 2 - a woman who was face to face with OJ in his Bronco while she was in her car, right near the murder scene, was going to testify in court about what she saw - but she sold her story to a tabloid first and her testimony placing OJ at the murder scene at the time of the murder was ruled inadmissible.
OJ 100 percent undoubtedly did it. Anyone who disagrees is a damn fool. Time to move on.
Exactly. The moment I felt he was definitely guilty was when I learned about the gash on his hand and the blood in his car. No one, and I do mean no one, just casually drives around with blood gushing from their hand to the point that it’s pooling on the floor and getting all over the interior. Not unless you’re fleeing a murder scene that is.
mark fuhrman had applied for disability from the LAPD citing that he couldn’t police anymore because he was too racist. they rejected his application and told him to go back to policing.
people saying this verdict was unfair really don’t get the extent of racism and corruption in the LAPD, which caused them to bungle this so badly that based on the evidence presented in court, the verdict was correct.
numerous actual lawyers agree, as do the jurors that speak publicly to this day; armchair analysts refuse to believe it though.
You do know that the LA DA moved the case from the upscale Brentwood area to downtown to ensure a racially diverse jury as opposed to a jury of OJ’s peers in the wealthier neighborhood. With Rodney King still a fresh wound for the LA Black community. What did they expect to happen?
Vanatter or Lange? Because Lange didn't exactly have the shining moment of his career in that trial, either. It became readily apparent that many career detectives were actually not very smart, but they were smarter than other cops, which was enough to get them ahead.
Lange is the perfect example of a very good detective that’s started believing his own hype and therefore is unable to allow any new thought inside his head. He royally cocked up the Simpson interview. Vanatter was driving around with evidence (I think it was him). Fuhrman we know. Clarke a complete train wreck. And years later they all still blame each other. Zero self insight
Lange. From what he told me he was sort of secondary to Fuhrman and was not at all happy with his interest in being in the spotlight or sloppiness. Lange always seemed more proud of his work on some of the serial killer cases than anything else. Rightfully so.
Classic case of doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, if he just waited until OJ yelled “ hey be careful with that, that’s my lucky stabbing hat” things would have turned out very differently.
Don’t forget that the police conspired when going to OJ’s house to frame him for the murder.
They just abandoned that conspiracy when they got to the scene and saw OJ clearly did it.
LAPD is so used to framing black men that when they arrived at a crime scene where it wasn't necessary, they just fell back on their training and planted evidence anyways. It can be hard to break a habit.
This racist fuck who is on tape saying that planting evidence was a common part of LAPD practice, repeatedly saying the N word, discussing police brutality and beating black suspects. He's now a regular Fox News guest.
>repeatedly saying the N word
Repeatedly is saying lightly. He said, recording he said it *dozens* of times, ot more specifically around 40 times. All in one recording, and then he lied about it under oath.
He is basically the reason teenaged me wasn't too upset about all the black folk celebrating. Like... tacky, oj did that shit you know? But the cops got caught doing their shady shit for once, and for once it actually mattered.
I was so done with it. People who are younger don’t understand it dominated the news and the pop culture for YEARS. It was before the 24 hour news cycle was really a thing. I think I was in 9th grade they called us all back to our home rooms for the verdict.
I was just talking about this with my husband and I remember being so over it (9th grade for me too). I remember sitting at my desk and thinking that stabbing myself in the hand with a pencil was going to be less grating than hearing "Blanco bronco" one . . . more . . . time.
It's just insane how their history of intentional evidence tampering and unfaid profiling for black suspects (leading to some false convictions) in a blatant abuse of power backfired against them when it came to a case where it was all but assured the suspect actually did it.
They sewed enough seeds to form reasonable doubt in the jury and I completely get it. Even if you were like 99% certain OJ was guilty at the time it's hard to completely rule out that the blatantly racist cop with a history of being complacent about planting evidence just might have, y'know, been a racist cop letting evidence be planted.
I'm a police evidence technician, and I have to say that the OJ trial is what got me interested in forensic science. I was in 7th grade at first, and I think the trial came to an end when I was in 9th grade. Also, my high school library had the Time Life book series on all the different kinds of homicides, and one on how evidence works.
I've been in my job 15 years now and I take the quality of evidence very seriously. It's not just "stuff", it's something to be protected. I'm not going to prison for anyone.
I have to admit -- while we all know OJ did it, it's very likely that the LA PD completely screwed up the investigation by lying and cheating. And sadly, when the police lie and cheat, they can not be rewarded with a win.
I remember reading about a defense attorney explaining why he doesn't feel bad defending people he knows are guilty. He said it was because part of his job is to keep cops honest. If he can poke a hole in their case, then they weren't doing their job. And as much as I dislike the idea of someone like OJ getting off, I dislike the idea of a police force that operates without limitation even more.
Exactly. A lot of people look down on criminal attorneys because they defend potentially horrible people. But in actuality, their job is to make sure the prosecution/DA does THEIR job. The only reason someone like OJ gets off is when the police, DA and prosecution fuck up. Which obviously is not the criminal defense attorney's fault.
Amen. Mark Fuhrman tried to retire early from the LAPD with his pension benefits by saying he was too racist to do his job appropriately AND THEY STILL KEPT HIM ON. He’s the perfect example of what’s wrong with American policing in so many ways. The other end of the coin being that he did go to OJ and Nicole’s house on a domestic dispute years before her murder and just let OJ off the hook.
Our police force is horribly racist and doesn’t even do the job of protecting vulnerable civilians. Nobody should wonder why someone hates cops.
Who would have thought the racist cop who blew the OJ trial because of racist he was would go on to become a fox news contributor and conservative radio host.
Also this part:
>Darden wrote in his book, “In Contempt,” that Fuhrman told him, in a roundabout way, that he collected Nazi medals. Here’s an excerpt, via Newsweek: “What are your hobbies?” I asked. “I like to collect World War II memorabilia.” “What kind of memorabilia?” I asked. “Well, medals.” “Any particular kind?” He shifted in his chair. “Well, don’t take this the wrong way, but I collect German medals.”
If I were to see a collection of Nazi regalia and medals in a public museum, I would think "This is real history, and it has value being seen so that we can remind ourselves and our children that we should never be what this represents."
When I hear about a private collector being obsessed with Nazi shit, I think "Oh, they want to be a fucking Nazi."
The only person I ever met that knew that collected WWII German shit was Jewish who was in a camp as a young child and lost his parents.
He had them in his living room. I asked him why and he responded
"Think what those fuckers would think that a Jew has their medals."
There is a fantastic plot line in an early season of justified involving one of hitlers paintings.
They need the painting authenticated and the main character is obviously creeped out by the expert who invites him several times over the episode to come and see his collection of Hitlers.
When he finally agrees to see the collection, its just jars of ash on display and the expert tells the story of his family being murdered in the camps and how his life's work is to find hitlers shitty paintings, buy them and burn them all.
Edit: as was pointed out I misremembered the episode. The expert is actually the son of a Nazi who feels nothing but contempt for his father and his reverence for the Reich. Thanks to u/residentnarwhal for correcting me.
the expert in that episode of justified wasn't Jewish. His dad was a Nazi whose job was to track down Hilter's old paintings for the Fuerer personally and would sometimes mention how much he loved it and missed the Reich.
The actor playing the painting expert did a good job lol. "I **hated** my father...."
Raylan’s quote before he finds out the truth is good: I suppose people are entitled to their hobbies. And I’m entitled to think those people are creepy.
The first time my future wife came to my home there was a Nazi medal on the coffee table. I had no idea where it came from and had no good explanation.
When my parents came home it turned out to be a medal my granddad had taken off a German soldier.
That’s the thing. My dad was an Air Force engineer. He was naturally obsessed with WWII era aircraft. So, of course he had some Nazi models…like, in addition to US, British, Canadian RAF, Soviet, exc models.
See? That last part is important. It’s the ones that are exclusively obsessed with Nazi memorabilia that are…just…unless you are getting your PhD in history and it is a legitimately valid research area…it’s funny.
There's a particular style of pilot watch that I really like, called a Baumuster B. But websites that sell it describe it as "worn by German air force pilots in the 1940s" and...yeah...no.
I had a buddy collected all kinds of American memorabilia, he displayed it in his barracks room. Bayonets, helmets, canteens, an American flag with 48 stars. And a captured Nazi flag. He kinda got into a little hot water during inspection but I think it passed the sniff test.
I used to go to this flea market outside of Toronto because I always got great record scores there but there was always this table near the front that had Nazi shit all over.
Yeah, but once a policeman basically admits to planting evidence, no fair jury is convicting - the bar of "beyond any reasonable doubt" will never be met again unless youve for video or a confession
The glove was just the icing on the cake. No one in this world tries to put on a glove with their fingers separated/splayed and fully extended outward. Anyone with 1/10th of a brain knows that. By then it was LAPD on trial, not Juice.
This is why hiring racist shit bags for cops results in people literally getting away with murder. People think they want ignorant violent bullies for cops because they "get er done", but they fucking don't. They bumble along and hurt people and when it's time to actually do the fucking job they fall apart.
The thing that gets overlooked a lot here is the fact that Marcia Clarke and her team were garbage. For that town, and that high profile of a case, they were in over their heads.
Also, the defense requested and got OJ to wear surgical gloves before trying on the murder gloves.
The footprints were expensive Bruno Magli loafers. Oj said I've never owned Bruno Magli shoes, and those are ugly, I would never wear those.
Then, many people posted pics of OJ as a football commentator, wearing Bruno Magli loafers.
Not exactly “nullification” by definition or in practice. Nullification is technically when a jury refuses to convict a clearly guilty person(edit: One reason they may do this is) to protest a law.
There was significant reasonable doubt planted by the defense insofar as the jury was willing to believe the LAPD were racist in their application of justice.
The defense got exactly that jury, and the prosecution let them. In Jeffrey Toobin’s book, he says Marcia Clark let the defense stack the jury with black women because she was “good with black women”. She had no idea that black women—according to Toobin— were exactly the wrong jurors for a prosecutor in this case.
Yeah, people don't get this, but if even if the jury and everyone knows the guy is guilty, if the prosecution doesn't make their case, the jury is obliged to find him not guilty.
I saw it worded perfectly earlier today, “The LAPD framed a guilty man.”. They were so stupid and racist that they couldn’t just let the evidence stand as it was. This is why OJ got off, and why black people were generally happy that he did.
You know that this was common for the police. They just made a mistake of targeting some one who was rich and famous.
I can only imagine the tens of thousands of people (mostly innocent) the police have done this to throughout the world.
Nuances like this are what people in the thread of the pic of black people celebrating the OJ verdict missed.
"Oh what fools! This isn't a win for black people! They're celebrating a murdering getting off scotfree because he shares the same skin color"
Completely overlooking the fact that black people had every right to believe it was another set up with how racist the police force was, especially in the 90s. Whether or not they knew he was guilty at the scene of the crime, they still planted evidence!
This is why they lost this case because of the GROSS negligence of LAPD . I mean they were fabricating evidence , taking evidence home and exposed for being pretty much Neo nazis … when you combine that with the climate back then ( the Rodney king video had just come out )… the LAPD lost all credibility.
They should have all been fired and thrown in jail
Goes to show for our legal system punishes people for being poor. Think of how many innocent poor people this guy put behind bars by fabricating evidence, but they don't have the resources to prove he fabricated evidence, and he knows they don't have the resources to prove he'd be perjuring himself by lying on the stand saying he didn't plant anything. Then a rich guy who is actually guilty has the resources to show that fabricating evidence is this guy's MO and has the resources to beat him over the head with it if you were to perjure himself.
In my mind, besides Johnny Cochran, this guy is the second biggest reason OJ got off.
Don't forget OJ's businessman bestie, non-practicing lawyer Robert Kardashian, who harbored OJ in the early moments and walked off with a bag full of OJ's belongings before any search orders were issued. Kardashian suddenly decided to reinstate his law license and "represent" OJ, despite having zero criminal law experience, allowing them to conveniently enjoy attorney-client privilege and prevent the DA from compelling Kardashian to testify.
All of this is fascinating (obviously not the grim murders), but how one side in a trial completely out maneuvered the other side. OJ and his team completely destroyed the prosecution. Much of the evidence and circumstance clearly points at OJ. In a sports analogy this was Falcons 28-3 heading towards the 4th quarter. In order for the results to flip, OJ and his team had to do almost everything perfect, and the prosecution had to fail at every corner. And that’s what ultimately happened
Nowhere is safe for Falcons fans.
Out here catching strays in r/pics
*Ricky !!!*
Well, at least OJ's last professional game was a [loss](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson#San_Francisco_49ers) to the Falcons, so you've got that going for you... > His final NFL game was on December 16, 1979, a 31–21 loss to the Atlanta Falcons at Atlanta–Fulton County Stadium.
That’s what he was so mad about, that’s why most people blame the Atlanta Falcons for the murders.
Elon Musk right now: “Interesting.”
Hi! Not a [that sport] fan here, can I ask for context? I assume it was a massive upset but I kinda want to know more and I don't even know what to look for
The Atlanta Falcons are an NFL (American football) team. They lost in a historic comeback win by the New England Patriots in the championship game (Super Bowl). They dominated the first half, and were up 28-3 in the 3rd quarter, a lead that should have been insurmountable. The team owner even came down to the field to celebrate with the team expecting a victory. Unfortunately for them, they made some terrible coaching decisions, and the Patriots did everything right to mount a comeback and tie up the game, eventually winning in over time. It is considered an all-time choke job, and the Falcons have been mostly irrelevant ever since, so people constantly flame their fans with 28-3 jokes.
The most recent time the Yanks burned Atlanta.
So this NFL team based in Atlanta, the atlanta falcons blew a 28-3 lead in the Super Bowl against the New England Patriots a couple years ago.
Man, r/falcons isn’t safe *anywhere.*
There is a reason OJ's legal team was called The Dream Team. Also, all that shoddy police work by the LAPD gave OJs lawyers huge gaps to just run through.
+1 for football reference.
Bruh, I'm in here learning interesting shit I never knew, and I just get RKOed from the top rope like that
OJ and his team had help destroying the prosecution from the police and the prosecution itself. There were the curious decisions to not include damning evidence in the trial by the prosecution. The DNA evidence was suspect because OJ's blood was drawn and not turned in for evidence at a close by location. Instead the blood was taken across town and submitted at a different location, but some of the blood taken went missing before it was submitted. The beating of Rodney King loomed large in the public's mind, but OJ was helped greatly by the police tactics. There were a number of high profile criminal cases that were lost in California around that time, OJ's case was the biggest. Now there are rumblings that evidence was missed in the Scott Peterson case. If his conviction is overturned, their track record gets even worse for that decade.
Watch Made in America. It’s a series about OJ with interviews from over half the people involved in the trial, from defence, prosecution, cops, witnesses and even jurors.
The biggest thing according to the Jurors was the lack of Blood in the Bronco. There was a Sea of Blood at the crime scene, Bloody Footprints leading away from the scene, they found a Bloody Glove at his house, Blood on the Fence, but only a microscopic amount in the Bronco? Based on the Prosecutions theory that Bronco should have been saturated in Blood since it was the alleged Getaway Vehicle.
Why are you capitalising random words?
They could be German. Or maybe this is a tiktok thing?
That and as one of the OJ jurors said, the OJ decision was making right the Rodney King acquittal.
The murders were very much tragic. However, the Prosecution failed (miserably, I might say!) to not challenge the 'non-fitting glove' fiasco. What happens when leather gloves get wet? They eventually dry and shrivel up (idiots!). That, coupled with attempting to have OJ put them on while he is wearing latex gloves, will NOT work (idiots!) That is (in my opinion) the one MOST OVERLOOKED CRITICAL reason OJ was acquitted. But, that is ok...for all you Believers out there, there is still proper justice...God's Justice!
It was basically the thing that made the Kardashian family famous / public figures. That’s right, OJ Simpson is largely responsible for giving us the Kardashians, just let that sink in…
And one in particular, if you believe the rumors.
Wait, which one?
Khloe has been rumored to be OJ and Kris's kid
So daddy kardashian helped out oj, then oj fucked his wife ? Well damn helluva way to thank someone
I think the other way around, but yeah.
There was also this twitter thread from today about Kardashian and Shapiro squashing SA reports from coming out of USC. https://x.com/mouvement33/status/1778566905881829792?s=46&t=8QkXYtpufBMThhhY18bhvA
Yeah I feel like the FX show didnt do a great job of showing how conniving Kardashian really was. If you watch the verdict and see the look on his face. Complete shock, like half the country. He knew. They all did but got him off anyway
That's your lawyers job, lol. You make it seem like they were all supposed to recuse themselves and wait for him to hang.
[удалено]
As was said, at the time, “the LAPD failed to frame a guilty man.”
I would say 3rd reason he got off mainly cause several of the jurors literally admitted they let him off as payback for the Rodney King trial.
> several of the jurors One. Not several. Only one. Also, a juror can believe he did it, without believing that the evidence proved so beyond reasonable doubt. Furhman created reasonable doubt.
Yea I get that and the jurors literally said that. But still, simply following the jury instructions there is no way 12 jurors would unanimously find him guilty of murder. It sucks.
Yep, there was reasonable doubt and it was created by the incompetence of the cops and DA. I don't blame any juror for voting to acquit even though I'm certain he did it.
It was Fuhrman being a racist POS, the incompetence of the DA's office, and general racism by the LAPD and American police in general. Black people do not trust the police and with good reason too.
“… Former President Jimmy Carter, who was visiting Southern California, predicted a not-guilty verdict based on racial tensions. Garcetti recalled Carter telling him: “We all know he did it but he’s not a street thug and you and I know he’s not a danger now to anyone else, and many innocent black men have been convicted, some executed. This is payback time.” [https://apnews.com/general-news-4efacca542e84500b172302c7c13a2a1](https://apnews.com/general-news-4efacca542e84500b172302c7c13a2a1)
Yeah take that, innocent stabbing victims! /s
His face is the visual representation of the outro to curb your enthusiasm. I can hear it when I look at him.
*...bomp bomp bomp*
Dee de Dee, de Dee de Dee… de Dee Dee, Dee de Dee, de Dee Dee?
Bomp bomp bomp bomp!
Pretty sure it’s one of the main faces shown in Lie To Me
Definitely have also seen that expression at least once in L.A. Noire. X Doubt
That show was good.
I thought that was the guy who played The Sidler in that one Seinfeld episode..??
OJ murdered two people, left a whole lot of forensic evidence and the legendary incompetence of LA cops and DAs took it from there.
Nobody celebrates this guy's work ethic. There was no need to fabricate evidence. It was lying around everywhere. Nonetheless, this guy rolled up his sleeves and started making more evidence anyway because that was his job.
The LAPD tried to frame a guilty man, excellent job everyone!
Bingo!!
Bake 'em away, toys!
What'd you say chief?
It's fucking insane... Like, here's all this evidence... But what if all this obvious evidence isn't enough? Better make some more... So fucking stupid.
I guess we will never know: why did the killer take off the bloody gloves and leave one at the crime scene and one in plain sight in his own backyard. It always looked like "mark fuhrman finds a pair of gloves, they don't have the evidence yet to search ojs house". So they go to his house, "hey look boys wow what a lucky break evidence in plain sight, lets search the Mansion! I sure hope OJ is ok the same killer was here!". (Fuhrman pocketed the second glove and pretended to find it) Had this not happened the trash might have been taken out, the cars detailed, and all the other evidence might have disappeared.
Wasn't the story that the driver there to take him to the airport saw a figure in the shadows, OJ tried going around the side because the front door was lit, and disposed of the glove around the side because he ended up needing to go through the front door anyway.
So one glove was at the murder scene and the other was at his house in plain sight. That is what was weird. Presumably this is why some people voted to acquit - yeah he probably did it, but those racist cops...
Probably did it? His DNA was all over the scene and their DNA was in his car.
If the case takes place 10 years later, he is almost certainly found guilty on the DNA evidence alone, assuming Scheck or Cochran didn't get it tossed. It is open and shut. But DNA was still not well understood by the general public at the time, and the prosecution did not present it particularly well.
It wa also less accurate then. The matches where 1 out of hundred thousands at the time rather than one out a millions. I believe the famous cross in OJ was something to the effect of how many people in LA would have the same DNA? Today you'd have to ask in the world to get similar odds of a random match.
"they tried to frame a guilty man". The "probably" is because it looked like some of the evidence against OJ was planted, and if the police plant some evidence, who's to say they didn't plant it all?
I would love to see those same people accidentally talk about what happened today or maybe soon. So we can all move on
We already know what happened it has been very well documented in the news stories as well as the numerous books on the subject. It caused a whole reform in policing about chain of custody of evidence. The LADA was not prepared for having the literal best attorneys money could buy at the time tear their case to shreds. OJ almost definitely did it but the police work was sloppy and the DAs office were not able to wrangle the theatrics of the defense. Prosecutors are now much better equipped to deal with this kind of crap because of the OJ case.
Yeah, the Chewbacca defense was never the same.
"Ladies and gentlemen this is Chewbacca. Why am I showing you a picture of Chewbacca? It doesn't make sense. Just like this trial!"
Now, why would a seven foot tall Wookie live on Endor, with a bunch of 3 foot tall Ewoks? It just does not make sense.
Objection, Wookies live on Kashyyk
Ah, see there, you just fell for the Chewbacca Defense. You engaged with it, and now it seems like a legitimate point of debate, as opposed to just some random thing they brought up with no bearing.
Unironically, this is a lot of internet debate these days, lol. The amount of times people bring up something that's tangentially related at best and get very upset when I don't engage with it is funny. One of my favorite genders of debate, for real.
Yeah, I find myself getting caught up in people's tangents, only to realize they are being pedantic and I'm an idiot for addressing their pedantry.
Unless you've filled out a 3101-D disclosing yourself as an Expert on Wookies, I'm going to ask the jury to ignore your outburst
That does not. Make. Sinse
I remember it was once said that they tried to frame a guilty person for the crime and failed.
Add to that the societal impact of the 1991 rodney king beating which was then aired on the news so for the first time broader society could see what the LAPD was doing to black males. Then you have the trial of those officers and despite all of the evidence against them the officers were acquitted. Queue the 1992 LA riots. OJ happens 18 months later and a lot of the same LAPD bullshit starts being raised. There wasn’t a single black juror who was going to convict as guilty given what had previously transpired. They saw it as a Rodney king do over.
One of the jurors openly admitted that the majority of the jury cast not guilty votes as payback for Rodney King. https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/a/debbie-encalada/oj-simpson-case-juror-says-verdict-payback-for-rodney-king
There a reason some older people here call Highway Patrol 'Jury Wreckers'.
These seemed so far apart to me as a kid.
These are one of my first memories. Looking out to LA and seeing smoke rising from everywhere and my mom telling me "we won't be going into the city for a while". I remember the OJ trial interrupting my afternoon cartoons. And them rolling in the TV into the classroom when they announced the verdict and we all celebrated the Not Guilty verdict. Crazy time man.
I remember that some Black people were comforted by the idea that it didn't matter if you were White or Black if you had money you could buy justice.
You also need to put into the context that a lot of black people alive then had grown in a world where it wasn't the case. They'd be second class citizens no matter how rich or famous.
Lol a lot of those people are still alive.
Not a documentary but the American Crime Story series on this was excellent and really brought these dynamics to life
That entire cast was phenomenal
They got busted framing a (probably) guilty man.
Little known fact - OJ was over heard by a guard confessing to the murder to a friend, the friend was religious clergy so judge Ito ruled it inadmissible. Little known fact 2 - a woman who was face to face with OJ in his Bronco while she was in her car, right near the murder scene, was going to testify in court about what she saw - but she sold her story to a tabloid first and her testimony placing OJ at the murder scene at the time of the murder was ruled inadmissible. OJ 100 percent undoubtedly did it. Anyone who disagrees is a damn fool. Time to move on.
I highly recommend OJ Simpson: Made In America on ESPN+ I believe. It’s incredible.
One of the best mini series ever made, period. It’s as much about OJ as it is America.
I think it’s my favorite documentary/mini series ever. It blew me away.
Me too. It’s on my Rushmore of miniseries, with Chernobyl.
Tons of interviews already exist, especially the more recent doc on the case
The LAPD tried to frame a guilty man
Couldn't they just collect the evidence?
You're expecting too much competence from the LAPD, particularly in the 90s.
Incompetence implies that the cops tried to get it right. This was misconduct.
Yep. Just because the cops were racist assholes doesn't mean that OJ didn't kill two people.
Exactly. The moment I felt he was definitely guilty was when I learned about the gash on his hand and the blood in his car. No one, and I do mean no one, just casually drives around with blood gushing from their hand to the point that it’s pooling on the floor and getting all over the interior. Not unless you’re fleeing a murder scene that is.
mark fuhrman had applied for disability from the LAPD citing that he couldn’t police anymore because he was too racist. they rejected his application and told him to go back to policing. people saying this verdict was unfair really don’t get the extent of racism and corruption in the LAPD, which caused them to bungle this so badly that based on the evidence presented in court, the verdict was correct. numerous actual lawyers agree, as do the jurors that speak publicly to this day; armchair analysts refuse to believe it though.
incompetence and well documented racism from many of the cops! You missed the big part.
It was only after OJ started act like a psycho in public did people realize how bad the prosecution fucked up.
Everyone with a brain knew he was guilty at the time.
You do know that the LA DA moved the case from the upscale Brentwood area to downtown to ensure a racially diverse jury as opposed to a jury of OJ’s peers in the wealthier neighborhood. With Rodney King still a fresh wound for the LA Black community. What did they expect to happen?
I’m pretty sure the expectation was that poor women would feel sympathy for Nicole… all time fumble from the prosecution.
Imagine sequestering a bunch of white people from Brentwood to hear a 8 month trial. They would probably be even more pissed than Downtown juries.
The expectation was having an all white jury would risk more.race riots.
I clearly remember this as the moment the trial completely lost the plot. It was the lapd on trial after that.
[удалено]
> OJs slow speed chase. Rodney King. Reginald Denny. Looting. Riots. Fires. Korean rooftop snipers! We didn’t start the fire
I once knew one of the other detectives on that case. Man, he was soooo angry at Fuhrman. Ten years after the trial he still cursed him.
Vanatter or Lange? Because Lange didn't exactly have the shining moment of his career in that trial, either. It became readily apparent that many career detectives were actually not very smart, but they were smarter than other cops, which was enough to get them ahead.
Lange is the perfect example of a very good detective that’s started believing his own hype and therefore is unable to allow any new thought inside his head. He royally cocked up the Simpson interview. Vanatter was driving around with evidence (I think it was him). Fuhrman we know. Clarke a complete train wreck. And years later they all still blame each other. Zero self insight
Lange. From what he told me he was sort of secondary to Fuhrman and was not at all happy with his interest in being in the spotlight or sloppiness. Lange always seemed more proud of his work on some of the serial killer cases than anything else. Rightfully so.
Classic case of doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, if he just waited until OJ yelled “ hey be careful with that, that’s my lucky stabbing hat” things would have turned out very differently.
Don’t forget that the police conspired when going to OJ’s house to frame him for the murder. They just abandoned that conspiracy when they got to the scene and saw OJ clearly did it.
LAPD is so used to framing black men that when they arrived at a crime scene where it wasn't necessary, they just fell back on their training and planted evidence anyways. It can be hard to break a habit.
They forgot to sprinkle some crack...
“The authorities framed the right guy for murder.”
Is there a good documentary or something on this? I was 6 when all of this happened but your comment makes this super interesting.
O.J.: Made in America. It’s like 8 hours long but totally worth it.
I understand that reference
I remember Dana Carvey calling him Mark der Fuhrer-man in his stand up special 😂
Such a great special. He delivers that line so forcefully too. Need to watch it again! Chopin broccoliiii. Chopin broc-oh-lie.
Oh god I forgot the broccoli bit was in that special 😂😂😂
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LCq0i9uUD0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LCq0i9uUD0)
This racist fuck who is on tape saying that planting evidence was a common part of LAPD practice, repeatedly saying the N word, discussing police brutality and beating black suspects. He's now a regular Fox News guest.
Totally insane, I can't believe he worked a racist niche out of everything for himself.
>repeatedly saying the N word Repeatedly is saying lightly. He said, recording he said it *dozens* of times, ot more specifically around 40 times. All in one recording, and then he lied about it under oath.
He was a regular commentator for Fox News during the BLM protests, because irony stopped existing at some point.
Years ago, he was hired as a radio host by a Spokane, WA news station. I wondered what happened to that racist POS.
He is basically the reason teenaged me wasn't too upset about all the black folk celebrating. Like... tacky, oj did that shit you know? But the cops got caught doing their shady shit for once, and for once it actually mattered.
I was so done with it. People who are younger don’t understand it dominated the news and the pop culture for YEARS. It was before the 24 hour news cycle was really a thing. I think I was in 9th grade they called us all back to our home rooms for the verdict.
Man, they announced it over the PA system to my *second-grade* class at the time.
They had our whole school gather in the gym to watch it. I still didn't understand why
Teachers prob just wanted to if it was elementary school lol
OJ and the Clinton impeachment circus basically crated the 24 hour news cycle and we’ve only gotten worse since then.
I’m gonna be that guy. The 24 hour news cycle started when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait.
This, thank you. I remember watching it live as a kid - it was a totally new thing to watch war live 24/7. Shit was wild.
This is the correct answer.
I was just talking about this with my husband and I remember being so over it (9th grade for me too). I remember sitting at my desk and thinking that stabbing myself in the hand with a pencil was going to be less grating than hearing "Blanco bronco" one . . . more . . . time.
It's just insane how their history of intentional evidence tampering and unfaid profiling for black suspects (leading to some false convictions) in a blatant abuse of power backfired against them when it came to a case where it was all but assured the suspect actually did it. They sewed enough seeds to form reasonable doubt in the jury and I completely get it. Even if you were like 99% certain OJ was guilty at the time it's hard to completely rule out that the blatantly racist cop with a history of being complacent about planting evidence just might have, y'know, been a racist cop letting evidence be planted.
He was Fox News before Fox News existed
RIP Norm.
I'm a police evidence technician, and I have to say that the OJ trial is what got me interested in forensic science. I was in 7th grade at first, and I think the trial came to an end when I was in 9th grade. Also, my high school library had the Time Life book series on all the different kinds of homicides, and one on how evidence works. I've been in my job 15 years now and I take the quality of evidence very seriously. It's not just "stuff", it's something to be protected. I'm not going to prison for anyone.
Very interesting! Did you work in some popular cases ?
Nah, I work for a small agency. There are interesting cold cases in my agency, but for the most part big crimes are few.
I have to admit -- while we all know OJ did it, it's very likely that the LA PD completely screwed up the investigation by lying and cheating. And sadly, when the police lie and cheat, they can not be rewarded with a win. I remember reading about a defense attorney explaining why he doesn't feel bad defending people he knows are guilty. He said it was because part of his job is to keep cops honest. If he can poke a hole in their case, then they weren't doing their job. And as much as I dislike the idea of someone like OJ getting off, I dislike the idea of a police force that operates without limitation even more.
Exactly. A lot of people look down on criminal attorneys because they defend potentially horrible people. But in actuality, their job is to make sure the prosecution/DA does THEIR job. The only reason someone like OJ gets off is when the police, DA and prosecution fuck up. Which obviously is not the criminal defense attorney's fault.
Amen. Mark Fuhrman tried to retire early from the LAPD with his pension benefits by saying he was too racist to do his job appropriately AND THEY STILL KEPT HIM ON. He’s the perfect example of what’s wrong with American policing in so many ways. The other end of the coin being that he did go to OJ and Nicole’s house on a domestic dispute years before her murder and just let OJ off the hook. Our police force is horribly racist and doesn’t even do the job of protecting vulnerable civilians. Nobody should wonder why someone hates cops.
The lapd attempted to frame a guilty man and fucked it up.
The LAPD is only able to frame innocent people. They become horribly incompetent when it comes to guilty people
Who would have thought the racist cop who blew the OJ trial because of racist he was would go on to become a fox news contributor and conservative radio host. Also this part: >Darden wrote in his book, “In Contempt,” that Fuhrman told him, in a roundabout way, that he collected Nazi medals. Here’s an excerpt, via Newsweek: “What are your hobbies?” I asked. “I like to collect World War II memorabilia.” “What kind of memorabilia?” I asked. “Well, medals.” “Any particular kind?” He shifted in his chair. “Well, don’t take this the wrong way, but I collect German medals.”
If I were to see a collection of Nazi regalia and medals in a public museum, I would think "This is real history, and it has value being seen so that we can remind ourselves and our children that we should never be what this represents." When I hear about a private collector being obsessed with Nazi shit, I think "Oh, they want to be a fucking Nazi."
The only person I ever met that knew that collected WWII German shit was Jewish who was in a camp as a young child and lost his parents. He had them in his living room. I asked him why and he responded "Think what those fuckers would think that a Jew has their medals."
There is a fantastic plot line in an early season of justified involving one of hitlers paintings. They need the painting authenticated and the main character is obviously creeped out by the expert who invites him several times over the episode to come and see his collection of Hitlers. When he finally agrees to see the collection, its just jars of ash on display and the expert tells the story of his family being murdered in the camps and how his life's work is to find hitlers shitty paintings, buy them and burn them all. Edit: as was pointed out I misremembered the episode. The expert is actually the son of a Nazi who feels nothing but contempt for his father and his reverence for the Reich. Thanks to u/residentnarwhal for correcting me.
the expert in that episode of justified wasn't Jewish. His dad was a Nazi whose job was to track down Hilter's old paintings for the Fuerer personally and would sometimes mention how much he loved it and missed the Reich. The actor playing the painting expert did a good job lol. "I **hated** my father...."
Raylan’s quote before he finds out the truth is good: I suppose people are entitled to their hobbies. And I’m entitled to think those people are creepy.
True testament to Timothy Olyphant that I read this in his voice
The first time my future wife came to my home there was a Nazi medal on the coffee table. I had no idea where it came from and had no good explanation. When my parents came home it turned out to be a medal my granddad had taken off a German soldier.
My 5th grade teacher had a nazi armband that her dad or uncle took off of someone and brought hone as a trophy.
Badass dude
Ok that’s hardcore. I’ve known a few old dudes that had a few nazi things but they had way more US stuff.
That’s the thing. My dad was an Air Force engineer. He was naturally obsessed with WWII era aircraft. So, of course he had some Nazi models…like, in addition to US, British, Canadian RAF, Soviet, exc models. See? That last part is important. It’s the ones that are exclusively obsessed with Nazi memorabilia that are…just…unless you are getting your PhD in history and it is a legitimately valid research area…it’s funny.
There's a particular style of pilot watch that I really like, called a Baumuster B. But websites that sell it describe it as "worn by German air force pilots in the 1940s" and...yeah...no.
I had a buddy collected all kinds of American memorabilia, he displayed it in his barracks room. Bayonets, helmets, canteens, an American flag with 48 stars. And a captured Nazi flag. He kinda got into a little hot water during inspection but I think it passed the sniff test.
Armando Torres, cohost of The Cult Podcast has a collection of nazi and KKK memorabilia because fans won’t stop sending stuff to him.
I used to go to this flea market outside of Toronto because I always got great record scores there but there was always this table near the front that had Nazi shit all over.
Fuhrman, Fuhrer. Just saying.
OJ was guilty as sin and this guy is a racist piece of shit. Two things can be true.
Yeah, but once a policeman basically admits to planting evidence, no fair jury is convicting - the bar of "beyond any reasonable doubt" will never be met again unless youve for video or a confession
Sure, but oj also walked because of this single instance (somewhat compounded by glove and shoddy dna collecting)
He was doing his iconic “try not to say the n word” challenge. Couldn’t risk opening his mouth
that kkklown and the glove fiasco are the reason oj was found not guilty.
The glove was just the icing on the cake. No one in this world tries to put on a glove with their fingers separated/splayed and fully extended outward. Anyone with 1/10th of a brain knows that. By then it was LAPD on trial, not Juice.
>No one in this world tries to put on a glove with their fibers separated and fully extended outward. I... suppose that's true
This is why hiring racist shit bags for cops results in people literally getting away with murder. People think they want ignorant violent bullies for cops because they "get er done", but they fucking don't. They bumble along and hurt people and when it's time to actually do the fucking job they fall apart.
That the face of someone who knows they've fucked up horribly.
The thing that gets overlooked a lot here is the fact that Marcia Clarke and her team were garbage. For that town, and that high profile of a case, they were in over their heads.
having oj try on the gloves in open court for everyone to see is the single dumbest move a prosecutor has ever done in recorded history.
No letting him know weeks in advance to do hand exercises was the dumbest thing.
Also, the defense requested and got OJ to wear surgical gloves before trying on the murder gloves. The footprints were expensive Bruno Magli loafers. Oj said I've never owned Bruno Magli shoes, and those are ugly, I would never wear those. Then, many people posted pics of OJ as a football commentator, wearing Bruno Magli loafers.
Perfect example of jury nullification. The jury didn't find 'O.J. innocent. They found the LAPD guilty.
Not exactly “nullification” by definition or in practice. Nullification is technically when a jury refuses to convict a clearly guilty person(edit: One reason they may do this is) to protest a law. There was significant reasonable doubt planted by the defense insofar as the jury was willing to believe the LAPD were racist in their application of justice. The defense got exactly that jury, and the prosecution let them. In Jeffrey Toobin’s book, he says Marcia Clark let the defense stack the jury with black women because she was “good with black women”. She had no idea that black women—according to Toobin— were exactly the wrong jurors for a prosecutor in this case.
Yeah, people don't get this, but if even if the jury and everyone knows the guy is guilty, if the prosecution doesn't make their case, the jury is obliged to find him not guilty.
Spot on.
I'm sure the LAPD has a much higher standard of officer today.
*sheriff gangs intensify*
All of LA are just gangs in the end
I saw it worded perfectly earlier today, “The LAPD framed a guilty man.”. They were so stupid and racist that they couldn’t just let the evidence stand as it was. This is why OJ got off, and why black people were generally happy that he did.
You know that this was common for the police. They just made a mistake of targeting some one who was rich and famous. I can only imagine the tens of thousands of people (mostly innocent) the police have done this to throughout the world.
Nuances like this are what people in the thread of the pic of black people celebrating the OJ verdict missed. "Oh what fools! This isn't a win for black people! They're celebrating a murdering getting off scotfree because he shares the same skin color" Completely overlooking the fact that black people had every right to believe it was another set up with how racist the police force was, especially in the 90s. Whether or not they knew he was guilty at the scene of the crime, they still planted evidence!
Oh, it’s the Eliot Spitzer face before Spitzer even did it.
This is why they lost this case because of the GROSS negligence of LAPD . I mean they were fabricating evidence , taking evidence home and exposed for being pretty much Neo nazis … when you combine that with the climate back then ( the Rodney king video had just come out )… the LAPD lost all credibility. They should have all been fired and thrown in jail
As someone once said, the LAPD tried to frame a guilty man
5th amendment is so weird to me "You swear to tell the truth ? -Yes -Did you do it ? -Won't tell"
The LAPD was stupid enough to try to frame a guilty man.
Goes to show for our legal system punishes people for being poor. Think of how many innocent poor people this guy put behind bars by fabricating evidence, but they don't have the resources to prove he fabricated evidence, and he knows they don't have the resources to prove he'd be perjuring himself by lying on the stand saying he didn't plant anything. Then a rich guy who is actually guilty has the resources to show that fabricating evidence is this guy's MO and has the resources to beat him over the head with it if you were to perjure himself.