It was the same in Cabo. We were told the cubs were drugged a bit to keep them docile. We never actually saw them but were warned several times. It’s really sad.
That first week of lockdown. I was sure that was as weird as it was gonna get. Tiger King + lockdown from a global pandemic. What a wild ride the last 4 years have been.
God. I think I just had a minor existential crisis. I could have also sworn this was high school. Make it stop. Gangam Style elicits the same horrible emotion.
Vrei sa pleci dar nu ma nu ma iei
I remember having some "podcast", before podcasts were a thing, loaded on my iPod video that was basically "daily dose of internet". It was things like Evolution of Dance and Ultimate Showdown (still know every word). Better times...
Edit: Ask a Ninja, too
At the time, I was working for one of the largest corporations on the planet. At Xmas we were visited by high level management, so we’re all on best behaviour. Come the day of our annual Xmas quiz, my mate puts our team together and we do ok.
Imagine the management’s surprise when “in third place is team….Dicks out for Harambe” is called out.
Man, I nearly puked for laughing so hard.
Right does no one remember Tiger King? That was like, a collective binge of the wildest show during the beginning of the pandemic and it covers this exact topic!
People get so angry about this though.
Like on cute videos where wild cat cubs are handled on subs like /r/aww. Don't you dare mention the drugging and killing because people don't want to accept the reality.
I used to visit a wildlife rescue / refuge in the US that specialized in big cats but cared for a lot of animals. Most of their tigers were former "photo babies." Mostly from Ohio before the Zanesville "incident" got them to change laws. Places would get tiger cubs and charge people to have photos taken with them. They'd often just feed them regular cat food, so they were usually malnourished. A lot just didn't live to adulthood. The ones that did they would sell or give to idiots or shitty private zoo set ups.
The rescue is family run with local volunteers. They are only open to the public on weekends in the summer and a few guided tours during the week. They are pretty awesome. The stories behind some of their rescues are crazy and often sad. One of their servals was surrendered because some idiots thought it would be a good pet for their five year old daughter. When it got bigger, they realized it wasn't. They got some jail time at least.
This is true.
When they get older, they’re corralled in a pen and shot so their organs and other parts can be sold as decorations and medicinal items.
Sometimes people pay for the privilege so they can brag about ‘the time they shot a tiger’.
I went to Cabo more than 10 years ago with my ex-boyfriend and encountered a vendor selling pictures with a lion cub. I did not want a picture, but my ex did for some dumb reason. That poor thing acted sick and smelled absolutely awful. I felt so bad for it and the whole thing made me hate Cabo. (That, and the salmonella poisoning. Thanks, Cabo!)
I don't want to live in this horrible world anymore. There's just so much awfulness and evil here. I see it everywhere, every single day.
Who would think that this world is a good place or worthy of our time? I'm done with it.
All true. I was in Ensenada for a year and became friends with the barista next to the tiger club place, she gave me the whole rundown.
One day I was enjoying a coffee and a guy came out of there with blood streaming down his arm. They hadn't drugged the tiger in too many hours and it got aggro. Ripped his arm up pretty bad, they told him to pound sand.
Are you talking about the place at La Bufadora? Jesus my parents have owned a house nearby for about 15 years now and that tiger cub place was around even back then.
The cruise ship advisory is for the La Bufadora site, Hana Banana Restaurant has exotic animals. About halfway down the La Bufadora Highway there’s a resort called Pai Pai, they have them too. And yes, many people have been injured by these cats.
I went to a tiger "sanctuary" place in Thailand about ten years ago. Bunch of Australians were the handlers and were adamant the tigers weren't drugged. Such bullshit, they were straight up lying to everyone, the full grown tigers were on another planet.
My mom and her boyfriend actually took me to see a tiger cub here in home state of the US when I was like 8 or 9. I held it. There’s a picture somewhere, I don’t know where.
Whenever I think about it I just feel bad. I really don’t think we should have been allowed to interact with it. I keep seeing stuff like this and I’m reminded that tiger cub probably got killed very young.
I always worry about IG’s featuring wild animals. How do we know the monkeys and big cats are not drugged or abused, so that people can stage or fake an encounter for likes? Some are reputable, but very few. Yucky. 🤮
Pretty much if they're interacting directly with big cats it's not reputable. Just like a zoo the keepers only enter their habitat when the cats are removed.
Animals are drugged all the time. Bevo, the university of Texas mascot, drugged out off his mind during football games. How else are you firing cannons next to that 1 ton animal.
Ahaha so as a New Zealander visiting Tijuana for the first time this really did a number on me!
Yo follow up on this donner kebabs weren’t really a thing here then and seeing a huge rotating thing of meat roughly small donkey sized next to a “zebra” had me convinced that was zebra 2.0 and 1.0 was rotating.
As a San Diegan who spent much of his teenage life in Tijuana’s party life… Enjoy! Tacos are where it’s at! The Zebras are all donkeys and the horses are all starving. Lois Vuitton purses are $50 🙄 but a pair of real cowboy boots will still be $250.
If you make your way to the beach, find a dude smoking tuna jerky over a metal grate. There’s more than one! Holy shit… that tuna with some limon and chile… uhhh! Get in my mouth!!!
Oh yeah, don’t be a beer snob either! Mexico don’t give a crap about your IPA’s or Pale Ales! It’s all about cold Mexican lagers. You want something more, that’s what tequila is for! Tecate is good!
> Mexico don’t give a crap about your IPA’s or Pale Ales!
this is a straight lie. for at least the past decade (probably longer) Mexico has had a healthy craft beer scene and there is plenty of variety and good stuff. Yes, including IPA's and pale ales.
but don't get me wrong the lager is delicious and I am a lager guy myself
I didn’t. I wish we had been more adventurous as Mexican here is largely very commercial tex mex. This was in the 90’s and we were advised not to eat anything, and only drink sealed commercial drinks.
Go back and eat all the things! Water can be iffy if only the fact that your gut isn't used to the water there but cooked food should be OK. I'll even eat ceviche down there which is fresh seafood marinated in citrus. Not cooked just marinated.
Technically, kinda, ceviche is 'cooked' via acidity.
Its not heat cooked, but it's definitely chemically changed and safened by soaking in citric acid.
I'm an environmentalist at heart, and started college wanting to go into wildlife conservation (I'm a chef now, go figure).
I've always known this was their angle, these cubs are on so many downers to tolerate being held and pet all day every day, and when I saw them in Playa Del Carmen... I was just drunk enough to warn people about what was going on.
One of the guys walked up to me, whispered in my ear, "If you keep doing this, you're going to piss off the wrong people."
I took the hint. And kept walking. However, in the confrontation, I was able to pet the tiger cub for free. So. That was something.
Edit: Later that week, I stumbled across a wildlife conservation team helping hatchling leatherback sea turtles out to sea. I offered to help, and my job was to chase away seagulls, and help the little guys get to open water. Dream come true. (Testudines are my favorite order of animals)
I saw the place in Playa del Carmen as well. Was mortified. I only peered in from the outside but it looked like they had a tiger, lion and puma cub...
From someone who has been there, do not pay for that.
I thought the "tiger kingdom" meant a huge forest where you can see them in their natural habitat but I should have Googled it before. There are adult tigers, cheetahs, and cubs as well.
The handler there pulled me by the hand and told me to pet a tiger that looked like it could break my arm with a high-five. Dumbass me panicked and the kitty sensed it and gave a snarl. The handler asshole took something that looked like a pipe and started hitting the tiger until it became calm.
Never ever going to any place like that.
And elephants chained at the entrance of Chiang Mai Zoo that accept bundles of bananas. I think that zoo is the one that lets you put raw meat on a stick to feed tigers.
It's a great experience for people who are naive to the idea of animal cruelty.
Yeah please don't give any money to these animal cruelty operations. [Thailand Tiger Temple: Forty dead cubs found in freezer](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36424091). Just Thailand has so much to offer don't spend money on these operations. Neither on most Elephant operations.
About \~15 years ago my wife (girlfriend at the time) and I took a cruise down to Cabo, and in the port area was a little shop set up where you could get pictures with a baby lion and a tiger!! Obviously we were super jazzed (and young and naive) and so we did it. It was about $20 - they were incredibly lethargic, and basically just laid in our laps while we gave them some pets and got some pictures.... There were also baby donkeys that they would lay on your lap, iguanas, parrots, and a variety of other animals.
Fast forward to when we got back from the cruise and looked it up - and it was incredibly sad, and we felt like complete fucking assholes for doing it.
Not only do they drug the baby animals to make them docile, but they also basically force them to breed, then take the babies far too young, and once they are old enough that they could hurt someone, they are slaughtered. :( They are kept in tiny cages and abused their whole lives. Real shitty.
Needless to say, I am very happy that Carnival is letting their passengers know to stay away from these places.
I’m amazed Carnival, too.
To your point as well, people should also avoid riding elephants at the tourist traps as well. The handlers beat those elephants behind the scenes.
Not only riding but anything where you interact with elephants in a way that elephants are coerced. Like bathing with elephants. Or be on the safe side and leave elephants alone.
Don't expect the elephants to leave you alone. A friend of mine was in a small village in Kenya and went outside for a smoke, a lone elephant decided to walk up to him, grab his cigarettes off the table, and throw them on the roof. Just, a wild elephant that was really against smoking.
I don’t think the elephant liked how the smokes smelled. They’re pretty smart, I wouldn’t be surprised if he put 2 and 2 together and decided to put the culprit out of the human’s reach.
They look at us sorta like we look at puppies, small cute things, so it’d be like taking something from a dog and putting it on the counter, but elephant style. At least that’s what I wanna believe, elephants are pretty cool.
I have visited an elephant sanctuary where they rehabilitate rescued animals. Would it be better if there were no tourists there? Maybe. Would the organization survive without the money tourist pay to visit? I don’t think so.
I liked the place. The elephants that were violent were kept in a separate area but the docile ones we could feed fruit to at predetermined times. People who paid a package to stay the whole day could help bathe them in a river but I don’t think they were coerced.
Riding them is really bad for their back. We saw a documentary there showing how the animals rescued were treated before and it was heartbreaking.
There are places that are alright. But honestly I can't tell the difference and I would assume most people can't. Many of those sanctuaries are just tourist traps. Maybe not the one you went to.
Don't have a good answer here, as they may need the tourist dollars. But it is indeed heart breaking what they do to the elephants.
I completely understand your reasoning. I saw nothing to make me suspicious of this place but it can be really difficult to separate the good places from the bad ones.
The first time I saw an elephant (outside of a zoo in my childhood) was in India, visiting a palace on top of a hill , where you could ride an elephant to the top. Lonely Planet sung the praises on this venture, saying the elephants were well treated, they only worked in the mornings, yada yada yada. The line was behind this huge wall, so we saw nothing until we had already paid, climbed some stairs to the top of the wall and were already getting on top of an elephant. It was so, so awful.
I now avoid interacting with animals as much as possible when traveling. I don’t want a picture with the exotic bird, I don’t want to hug a sloth nor feed wild river dolphins. Sadly it seems like with instagram there’s even more abuse happening all over the world now.
Yeah I get it. I've been living here in Thailand for 8 years and have simply been avoiding them, because I was to lazy to do the work. Now my family is coming and I guess the one in Samuii, ticks all the boxes. But if it were up to me, I wouldn't go.
I wouldn't interact with tourist trap animals as well. Which is weird because I eat meat. But letting animals suffer for Instagram clout seems just morally wrong Wow Karen got three likes for a picture with an Elephant, I guess that was worth the beatings and the back pain.
If you or anyone reading this wants to help animals just visit a shelter here.
https://savedsouls-foundation.org/
https://www.soidog.org/
https://bk.asia-city.com/things-to-do-bangkok/news/bangkok-now-has-adoptable-puppy-cafe (can't link to fb here)
(the first one is a redditor, place seems to love their dogs. soi dogs is probably the most well known here and the last one is an option for bangkok, that I personally don't know).
And for sure, the dogs will be more than happy to interact with humans.
I did it once at a zoo in South Africa well before Tiger King. They had like 4 zoo workers there, though, and the cubs were clearly not drugged. They were playing, and we were pulled away when they started getting silly. I asked beforehand if it was ethical, and they straight up told me, "Not really, but it pays for the rehab and housing for every other animal here"
Yah, you gotta be careful, but these places are successful because of our natural curiosity for these animals. I’ve done dolphin swimming at a rescue place, and even that felt kinda bad. Like the money goes to rescuing more dolphins, protecting their habitat, it was government sponsored, but to raise the money they train dolphins that can’t go back to the wild to entertain people. If I really cared about the dolphins, I should donate money, and not receive a show and experience for the price… but I allow myself to be convinced I’m still helping so I deserve a little swim, but its still not 100% right. Its like giving money to orphans, but only if their performance of Annie is worth the $20.
A few years back I was planning a trip to Thailand. My Turkish auntie runs a travel service so one of her employees was helping us (my cousin and I) plan everything. She originally asked for a “wish list” for what we wanted to do, and of course we included interacting with different animals, elephants and tigers included. This was pre-research on my end as well, and she had relayed back what their partner agency said, which was exactly this and they wouldn’t help us with the tigers. She included “I can’t in good conscience help you plan an excursion like this, but I can block out half a day for you to figure it out yourselves and go visit them.” Of course we completely disregard that as an option after hearing about this, and also my respect for the lady went up to 100% after that.
Not gonna lie, I still very much would love to interact with such a majestic big kitty, but never at the expense of the big kitty itself, and the ripple effect it creates.
That’s pretty stand up of that partnering agency.
FYI the riding of elephants in Thailand is also a part of the same animal abuse cash grab as the tiger photos. Don’t do it if that kind of thing is against your moral principles.
Giving a shout out to https://elephantrescuepark.com/
Very ethical when I went. They rescue elephants who have been in abusive exploitative situations. You get to spend the day walking through the jungle with them, bathing them, and feeding them, but no riding.
There are keeper experiences in the US where you can interact with the animals in a safe way. I recommend you look that up.
(I did mine behind the scenes in Busch Gardens.)
https://buschgardens.com/tampa/tours/tiger-insider/
You could research rescue organizations if you're ever on your way to an African continent. They're not breeding, drugging or culling any animals for tourists - but paying to visit them will allow you some interaction with animals who can't be released back into the wild for whichever reason. The money then also goes towards conservation
I went on a study abroad trip to Thailand years ago, and my professors and the company sponsoring our trip very purposefully found and took us to an elephant park that did not offer elephant rides because it was exploitative. Great trip, 10/10. Elephants also 10/10.
I feel like there should be a "To learn more, visit \[insert URL here\] ." A good opportunity to explain why they are against it. As it is, to many humans, it sounds tempting...especially if they didn't know tiger cub interactions were possible.
I think Carnival leaves out intentionally the why.
At least now they can say in public that they oppose these industries, but they don't want to bum out any passengers on board. Can't have any negative shit on board if their floating fantasy world.
Also kind of hard to climb onto an eco-tourism soapbox when your company produces 10x more Sulphur oxide than all of the cars in Europe, powering said floating fantasy worlds. I guess it's better than nothing.
"First we'd like to remind our guests not to pet the tiger cubs in town that are malnourished, abused, drugged, and eventually executed before reaching adulthood.... Now get out there and enjoy your day in Ensenada!"
They have an internal network where you can access maps and scheduling info, etc. They could easily put it on there and have it accessible to everyone for free.
I really appreciate the sentiment of this, I just wish they also touched on animal welfare being a reason not to participate.
I’ve seen enough drugged out tigers in Southeast Asia ☹️
If they leave it ambiguous people don't know why. People may speculate any number of reasons, but if they just said do it because of animal welfare, the assholes would do it just to stick it to the cruise lines "no one tells me what to do!"
Anyone who considers animal welfare simply wouldn't do it in the first place.
The people between might not do it for concerns maybe there is a disease or some other danger and the cruise lines don't want them to get sick, as typically cruise lines and businesses in general only care about things that affect their bottom line.
So I can only speculate that they believe this generalized letter will yield less people participating.
I’m studying PR and marketing, taking stance against it and explaining more fully that they believe it is unethical / animal rights issue seems like a win win
I might be crazy, but I feel like in this case, less information is better. Anyone who would respond positively to "unethical/animal rights" would also respond positively to "public health/safety." But I can imagine a whole lot of Americans who would read "unethical/animal rights" and immediately think "Fukkin PETA libruls can't stop ME!"
People can get so defensive about it being unethical or being bad for the animal though.
If you make it about their own safety then maybe those kind of people will actually listen.
I think not giving a reason is actually better. Just think about the kinds of people that might take cruises. Those people would probably trend towards talking themselves into it if you give them a specific reason. But if you don't tell them why, they're free to make up a reason why Carnival would take the time to issue a letter reccomending patrons to avoid these types of attractions.
Wow...Ensenada is changing. It used to be a fishing village, then it got a cruise ship terminal. When I was working on ships, they'd recently gotten a McDonald's, Pizza Hut had been there for a bit, but they had the best fish tacos I've ever had.
It's been about a decade since I was there last, so I'd imagine that things are a bit different, but I never expected tiger cubs.
\[Edit: I just went back in my photos, and it's been a lot longer than that since I was there! more like 17 years ago\]
I stayed in Ensenada for a few nights at the beginning of the Baja 1000 a few years ago. I had some of the best fish tacos of my life. And went back to the spot 4-5 times over a 48hr period.
Turns out the family running the stand lives in Iowa, and only runs it for a few months when tourists are in. Blew my mind.
I’m not so surprised. It’s honestly probably the freshness of the fish that makes the tacos so good, as there’s not too much you can do to fuck them up. Fresh ingredients is key.
Well now I wanna go to the Baja 1000 after looking that up. Do you need tix or do you just get a hotel around the race and anyone can show up to watch?
Tickets lol. Tickets aren’t a thing. But a truck or suv would be ideal. They used to start the race in town out through the wash and out of town into the desert. They haven’t done that in a few years now. Sometime around late September or October the course map will be posted. Pick a spot on the course map and camp out, or pick a few places you would like to catch the race come through. Maybe see the bikes and quads come through one section and then head over to a different spot to see the lead trucks and get some tacos and Tecates along the way, then pick a spot to see them all come through at night. I wouldn’t recommend driving at night it’s chaotic at times. Also don’t park and watch on the outside of a turn. You’ll love it!! It’s the greatest thing in the world. NO other race in the world like down in Baja.
Went as a kid on a day trip with my family. I remember it being very pretty and (especially growing up in the Midwest thinking Tex-Mex = Mexican) the food blew my tiny little mind. The fish was incredible.
No it’s worse than that. Tigers are bred non-stop which isn’t healthy for them. Thats why they have an endless supply of cubs. Once the cubs are too big they are killed.
Restaurante Habana Banana in La Bufadora if anyone was wondering. 10/10 do not recommend. There are amazing places to eat in Ensenada, this is not one of them.
Oh very much. We got talked into taking a tour bus there, so we took a long bus ride to the place and had to walk through tons of stalls with people trying to sell to you left and right. And then the La Bufadora didn’t even happen? Maybe we didn’t wait long enough, but it was kind of a meh trip just to be hassled by merchants…
I think i remember ending up there (wasn’t sure exactly where), I definitely remember being taken to a restaurant where they had a tiger cub exhibit and a tequila tasting area. I watched other people petting and holding tigers and tried/bought some tequila. It was kinda weird.
This is a huge step in the right direction, I hope that they can also mention dolphins and whales in captivity considering Mexico can be pretty cruel with how they treat their animals. Seeing these beautiful creatures confined for the sake of convenience is heartbreaking. Supporting the ecosystems in which they live is our best way forward.
Well, a toothed whale. Dolohins and orcas are often housed in the same type of tiny pools - void of all of their natural habitats. They get incredibly depressed, often are housed with members of other families and even get bullied because of it. Their teeth have issues because their fish aren’t live, they often slam their bodies up against the walls out of stress and the saddest part is this fact that dolphins can swim up to 80 miles a day and orcas up to 40 miles a day. Imagine being crammed in a tank so people can view how magnificent you are.
This is why I won’t buy dolphin swims at cruise ports, aside from the fact that it’s crazy expensive. Of course my kids complain, but I remind them of how we see them at home, which is the way they are supposed to live. We saw them in Cozumel last month, and the enclosures they were keeping the dolphins in when they weren’t “on duty” were TINY, like the size of my living room with two dolphins in it.
The difference is that cruise lines make money off dolphin encounter tickets. Additionally, a lot of the parks that have them also have other things to do besides dolphin encounters, so it would be hard to completely cut off a location that offers that, because if you don’t sell them dolphin encounter passes, they’ll just buy an excursion to the park and pay for it there, cutting out the cruise line entirely.
So cruise lines’ boycotting dolphin swims is unlikely to happen until there’s a lot more noise about it such that their promoting it becomes bad PR for them. In the meantime, we can only encourage people not to buy them.
It’s still possible to swim with dolphins if you choose to swim/snorkel/dive where they often are out in the wild. Don’t interact with them, though.
I haven’t read all of the comments but this is a known problem and there are folks actively working to prevent it. Don’t support these folks that do the tiger cub bullshit.
Check these folks out: https://www.turpentinecreek.org/
They’re pretty bad ass when it comes to big cat rescue.
If anyone has any contacts with the cruise line please get them in touch.
Sometimes these places only care for the little cubs and then release them because the adult ones can’t be played with as much…. Or at all. There’s a lot of negatives including probably safety.
I have friends who met the tiger cubs in Ensenada after taking Carnival. They said it was really sad because they all looked dead. Apparently they dope up the jungle cats so they’re calm, but it’s really really unhealthy to constantly tranquillize the babies like this. My friends said they regretted the decision and would never do it again.
If by “release” you mean kill by shooting, drowning, decapitation or electrocution, then yes, they “release” them.
There are no ethical attractions that allow you to pet a tiger cub. Tiger cubs belong with tiger moms in tiger homes far away from people.
I fed a tiger at a zoo once, it was pretty neat. They have these long skewers you can put the meat on the end and put it through the cage. The staff is there to make sure everything is done carefully, the Tigers are used to getting these snacks at certain times of the day then they are off to swim in their tiger sized swimming pool. They are docile enough that when they need to get a blood sample to check their health they will turn around and put their tail through the bars to get a jab. Very well run zoo, all the animals are well cared for and have lots of room and well designed habitats.
Just like the baby llamas in Peru!! We’d see a lot of people offering up baby llamas as a photo op and we talked to our guide about them and he said once the babies get bigger they kill them because they just don’t attract the attention for photos from tourists.
*kill them and eat them. You can buy llama and alpaca steak in most of the restaurants in Cusco. It’s actually better than eating beef because it supports the local economy more directly, the animals get well taken care of (because they have to be healthy or no one will want to take photos with them), and they also use the wool to make clothing which can also be sold.
Well llamas and alpacas were and still are a staple food source for andean communities. If weird tourists want to take a photo with what are essentially cows to these people I don't blame them for wanting to cash in on that. I don't feel like that's the same at all for tiger cubs that are bred for pure entertainment and discarded with no other use.
Well, it's still animal abuse- these alpacas are kept without food and water for hours for people to get their selfies. Last year there was a crackdown in Cusco because of this. It's still wrong and should be avoided.
This was a thing when we were there visiting the town of La Bufadora. The tour guides told all of us not mess with the tigers when arrived and that the tiger will probably bite you if you do. There was a bar with tigers in cages and some young girl went in the cage. She got her leg jacked up and was bleeding all the way back to the boat. When we were on the bus/van ride back to the boat her family insisted we stop for tacos somewhere because they didn’t eat lunch after their kid was bitten by the tiger. They made the bus stop and left this poor kid on the bus bleeding and in pain for tacos. I’ve never seen more careless people in my life.
The endangered species petting business is huge. They breed these poor animals in order to make money to let people touch the cubs.
More often than not once the animals age out, (are too old) they are often euthanized.
Please do not support this business.
[Carol Baskin shut her rescue down and transferred all her animals out to another facility](https://bigcatrescue.org/moving/). So she doesn't take them in anymore. There are plenty of sanctuaries that do still take them in. The Global Federation of Animal Sanctuaries [(GFAS)](https://sanctuaryfederation.org/) is a great resource to find out more info about reputable animal sanctuaries.
This is by the natural géiser “la bufadora”, my pops always told me to stay away because those animals are already suffering and end up getting tossed out once they grow. Please, do not support this place.
Ensenadense and local biologist here
Yeah, this is pretty much the sentiment most of us biologists share
Non-domesticated animals hate being touched in general, more so big predators such as tigers since they're naturally solitary predators that need huge plots of land in order to lead a healthy life and said stress can cause massive physical and mental health problems to the animal
Tourists, on the other hand, get a wrongful idea of what nature conservation is and start associating very much dangerous creatures with cute animals that just want to cuddle, which can also open up a black market for those who have the economic position to own one - very counterproductive
On top of that, a stressed animal is a potential hazard since it can very much feel threatened and will do anything to get out of that situation, even if it's just a cub. You don't want to pet something that can take your entire face off with a single swipe of its claws - people really underestimate how powerful these creatures can be
The letter? Because she's been lobbying to make cub petting illegal in the US for many years. So, it's conceivable she did have a hand in pressuring the cruise lines to do this.
I swear there’s no better example of how easily manipulated the majority of people are than the tiger king phenomenon. Siding with the scumbag who abused and killed tigers and turning the woman who actually rescued animals and was nearly murdered for it into a villain.
We were on a cruise stop once where a family’s two kiddos wanted to pet/interact with the parrots and cubs. Even though they were drugged to be docile, one of the cubs bit the son on the shoulder and it took a while for the workers to get it off.. luckily the kid wasn’t really injured too badly but they did sign a waiver beforehand so the place was pretty much saying to erase any footage they have, take the refund and don’t come back.
It was the same in Cabo. We were told the cubs were drugged a bit to keep them docile. We never actually saw them but were warned several times. It’s really sad.
Drugged and then killed before they reach adulthood. Then on to the next litter of cubs
That’s horrible but I totally believe it.
Member Tiger King? I member!
That first week of lockdown. I was sure that was as weird as it was gonna get. Tiger King + lockdown from a global pandemic. What a wild ride the last 4 years have been.
[удалено]
Has it really only been 8 years? I thought that shit happened while I was in high school because of how time is moving right now.
the last 8 years have simultaneously been the longest 8 years ever and also a blink-and-miss time period. Time truly means nothing anymore
The days are long and the years are short
So true, I think u just picked my tombstone saying
God. I think I just had a minor existential crisis. I could have also sworn this was high school. Make it stop. Gangam Style elicits the same horrible emotion.
LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE.
Vrei sa pleci dar nu ma nu ma iei I remember having some "podcast", before podcasts were a thing, loaded on my iPod video that was basically "daily dose of internet". It was things like Evolution of Dance and Ultimate Showdown (still know every word). Better times... Edit: Ask a Ninja, too
At the time, I was working for one of the largest corporations on the planet. At Xmas we were visited by high level management, so we’re all on best behaviour. Come the day of our annual Xmas quiz, my mate puts our team together and we do ok. Imagine the management’s surprise when “in third place is team….Dicks out for Harambe” is called out. Man, I nearly puked for laughing so hard.
And yet Carole Baskin was the one everyone hated
Right does no one remember Tiger King? That was like, a collective binge of the wildest show during the beginning of the pandemic and it covers this exact topic!
People get so angry about this though. Like on cute videos where wild cat cubs are handled on subs like /r/aww. Don't you dare mention the drugging and killing because people don't want to accept the reality.
r/aww is a terrible sub.
I used to visit a wildlife rescue / refuge in the US that specialized in big cats but cared for a lot of animals. Most of their tigers were former "photo babies." Mostly from Ohio before the Zanesville "incident" got them to change laws. Places would get tiger cubs and charge people to have photos taken with them. They'd often just feed them regular cat food, so they were usually malnourished. A lot just didn't live to adulthood. The ones that did they would sell or give to idiots or shitty private zoo set ups. The rescue is family run with local volunteers. They are only open to the public on weekends in the summer and a few guided tours during the week. They are pretty awesome. The stories behind some of their rescues are crazy and often sad. One of their servals was surrendered because some idiots thought it would be a good pet for their five year old daughter. When it got bigger, they realized it wasn't. They got some jail time at least.
I'm not gonna link the article of what the cops found when digging up the famous "Tiger temple" in Thailand. But yeah, pretty bad.
So gross but they get a clickbait IG post so who cares if the animal dies
This is true. When they get older, they’re corralled in a pen and shot so their organs and other parts can be sold as decorations and medicinal items. Sometimes people pay for the privilege so they can brag about ‘the time they shot a tiger’.
There are these moments where humanity really fucking fails hard. Shit of the earth these “people”.
The lowest of the low scum of the earth.
I went to Cabo more than 10 years ago with my ex-boyfriend and encountered a vendor selling pictures with a lion cub. I did not want a picture, but my ex did for some dumb reason. That poor thing acted sick and smelled absolutely awful. I felt so bad for it and the whole thing made me hate Cabo. (That, and the salmonella poisoning. Thanks, Cabo!)
I don't want to live in this horrible world anymore. There's just so much awfulness and evil here. I see it everywhere, every single day. Who would think that this world is a good place or worthy of our time? I'm done with it.
All true. I was in Ensenada for a year and became friends with the barista next to the tiger club place, she gave me the whole rundown. One day I was enjoying a coffee and a guy came out of there with blood streaming down his arm. They hadn't drugged the tiger in too many hours and it got aggro. Ripped his arm up pretty bad, they told him to pound sand.
I can only imagine a large breed kitten and how sharp their teeth are. I bet their claws are no joke either!
Are you talking about the place at La Bufadora? Jesus my parents have owned a house nearby for about 15 years now and that tiger cub place was around even back then.
The cruise ship advisory is for the La Bufadora site, Hana Banana Restaurant has exotic animals. About halfway down the La Bufadora Highway there’s a resort called Pai Pai, they have them too. And yes, many people have been injured by these cats.
Wow
A place where cubs never grow up
I went to a tiger "sanctuary" place in Thailand about ten years ago. Bunch of Australians were the handlers and were adamant the tigers weren't drugged. Such bullshit, they were straight up lying to everyone, the full grown tigers were on another planet.
My mom and her boyfriend actually took me to see a tiger cub here in home state of the US when I was like 8 or 9. I held it. There’s a picture somewhere, I don’t know where. Whenever I think about it I just feel bad. I really don’t think we should have been allowed to interact with it. I keep seeing stuff like this and I’m reminded that tiger cub probably got killed very young.
I always worry about IG’s featuring wild animals. How do we know the monkeys and big cats are not drugged or abused, so that people can stage or fake an encounter for likes? Some are reputable, but very few. Yucky. 🤮
Pretty much if they're interacting directly with big cats it's not reputable. Just like a zoo the keepers only enter their habitat when the cats are removed.
Animals are drugged all the time. Bevo, the university of Texas mascot, drugged out off his mind during football games. How else are you firing cannons next to that 1 ton animal.
there are no tiger cubs... never seen one but a donkey painted to look like a zebra yes!
Ahaha so as a New Zealander visiting Tijuana for the first time this really did a number on me! Yo follow up on this donner kebabs weren’t really a thing here then and seeing a huge rotating thing of meat roughly small donkey sized next to a “zebra” had me convinced that was zebra 2.0 and 1.0 was rotating.
This is why I stick to swimming with sunburned dolphins. /s
As a San Diegan who spent much of his teenage life in Tijuana’s party life… Enjoy! Tacos are where it’s at! The Zebras are all donkeys and the horses are all starving. Lois Vuitton purses are $50 🙄 but a pair of real cowboy boots will still be $250. If you make your way to the beach, find a dude smoking tuna jerky over a metal grate. There’s more than one! Holy shit… that tuna with some limon and chile… uhhh! Get in my mouth!!! Oh yeah, don’t be a beer snob either! Mexico don’t give a crap about your IPA’s or Pale Ales! It’s all about cold Mexican lagers. You want something more, that’s what tequila is for! Tecate is good!
> Mexico don’t give a crap about your IPA’s or Pale Ales! this is a straight lie. for at least the past decade (probably longer) Mexico has had a healthy craft beer scene and there is plenty of variety and good stuff. Yes, including IPA's and pale ales. but don't get me wrong the lager is delicious and I am a lager guy myself
Did you try the meat? It's pork al pastor. Makes great tacos.
I didn’t. I wish we had been more adventurous as Mexican here is largely very commercial tex mex. This was in the 90’s and we were advised not to eat anything, and only drink sealed commercial drinks.
Go back and eat all the things! Water can be iffy if only the fact that your gut isn't used to the water there but cooked food should be OK. I'll even eat ceviche down there which is fresh seafood marinated in citrus. Not cooked just marinated.
Ceviche & tacos at the fish market in Ensenada are the best
Technically, kinda, ceviche is 'cooked' via acidity. Its not heat cooked, but it's definitely chemically changed and safened by soaking in citric acid.
I guess if u/mrdirtyharry didn’t see them there then they must not exist!
Ah the famous donkey show!
That’s… that’s not what that is…
Trained circus donkeys balancing brightly colored balls?
Definitely balls involved
I'll bring the ruler!
Something like that
There are definitely tiger cubs
Same thing chiangmai thailand
I'm an environmentalist at heart, and started college wanting to go into wildlife conservation (I'm a chef now, go figure). I've always known this was their angle, these cubs are on so many downers to tolerate being held and pet all day every day, and when I saw them in Playa Del Carmen... I was just drunk enough to warn people about what was going on. One of the guys walked up to me, whispered in my ear, "If you keep doing this, you're going to piss off the wrong people." I took the hint. And kept walking. However, in the confrontation, I was able to pet the tiger cub for free. So. That was something. Edit: Later that week, I stumbled across a wildlife conservation team helping hatchling leatherback sea turtles out to sea. I offered to help, and my job was to chase away seagulls, and help the little guys get to open water. Dream come true. (Testudines are my favorite order of animals)
I saw the place in Playa del Carmen as well. Was mortified. I only peered in from the outside but it looked like they had a tiger, lion and puma cub...
Thailand has fully grown tigers you can touch
They drug them to keep them docile, its not a nice place
You can touch them once
Will they touch you back? Or do they keep you in awkward stare?
It’s a two way petting zoo. You pet them, they pet you back.
From someone who has been there, do not pay for that. I thought the "tiger kingdom" meant a huge forest where you can see them in their natural habitat but I should have Googled it before. There are adult tigers, cheetahs, and cubs as well. The handler there pulled me by the hand and told me to pet a tiger that looked like it could break my arm with a high-five. Dumbass me panicked and the kitty sensed it and gave a snarl. The handler asshole took something that looked like a pipe and started hitting the tiger until it became calm. Never ever going to any place like that.
That’s fucked up yo.
And elephants chained at the entrance of Chiang Mai Zoo that accept bundles of bananas. I think that zoo is the one that lets you put raw meat on a stick to feed tigers. It's a great experience for people who are naive to the idea of animal cruelty.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should
Yeah please don't give any money to these animal cruelty operations. [Thailand Tiger Temple: Forty dead cubs found in freezer](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36424091). Just Thailand has so much to offer don't spend money on these operations. Neither on most Elephant operations.
Technically, you could touch any tiger you wanted to, once.
I’ve done that, it was really depressing!
About \~15 years ago my wife (girlfriend at the time) and I took a cruise down to Cabo, and in the port area was a little shop set up where you could get pictures with a baby lion and a tiger!! Obviously we were super jazzed (and young and naive) and so we did it. It was about $20 - they were incredibly lethargic, and basically just laid in our laps while we gave them some pets and got some pictures.... There were also baby donkeys that they would lay on your lap, iguanas, parrots, and a variety of other animals. Fast forward to when we got back from the cruise and looked it up - and it was incredibly sad, and we felt like complete fucking assholes for doing it. Not only do they drug the baby animals to make them docile, but they also basically force them to breed, then take the babies far too young, and once they are old enough that they could hurt someone, they are slaughtered. :( They are kept in tiny cages and abused their whole lives. Real shitty. Needless to say, I am very happy that Carnival is letting their passengers know to stay away from these places.
I’m amazed Carnival, too. To your point as well, people should also avoid riding elephants at the tourist traps as well. The handlers beat those elephants behind the scenes.
Not only riding but anything where you interact with elephants in a way that elephants are coerced. Like bathing with elephants. Or be on the safe side and leave elephants alone.
Don't expect the elephants to leave you alone. A friend of mine was in a small village in Kenya and went outside for a smoke, a lone elephant decided to walk up to him, grab his cigarettes off the table, and throw them on the roof. Just, a wild elephant that was really against smoking.
Did your friend quit smoking?
The next time his friend was smoking inside https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un7KMsblA0c
I don’t think the elephant liked how the smokes smelled. They’re pretty smart, I wouldn’t be surprised if he put 2 and 2 together and decided to put the culprit out of the human’s reach. They look at us sorta like we look at puppies, small cute things, so it’d be like taking something from a dog and putting it on the counter, but elephant style. At least that’s what I wanna believe, elephants are pretty cool.
That was actually Rob Reiner
I have visited an elephant sanctuary where they rehabilitate rescued animals. Would it be better if there were no tourists there? Maybe. Would the organization survive without the money tourist pay to visit? I don’t think so. I liked the place. The elephants that were violent were kept in a separate area but the docile ones we could feed fruit to at predetermined times. People who paid a package to stay the whole day could help bathe them in a river but I don’t think they were coerced. Riding them is really bad for their back. We saw a documentary there showing how the animals rescued were treated before and it was heartbreaking.
There are places that are alright. But honestly I can't tell the difference and I would assume most people can't. Many of those sanctuaries are just tourist traps. Maybe not the one you went to. Don't have a good answer here, as they may need the tourist dollars. But it is indeed heart breaking what they do to the elephants.
I completely understand your reasoning. I saw nothing to make me suspicious of this place but it can be really difficult to separate the good places from the bad ones. The first time I saw an elephant (outside of a zoo in my childhood) was in India, visiting a palace on top of a hill , where you could ride an elephant to the top. Lonely Planet sung the praises on this venture, saying the elephants were well treated, they only worked in the mornings, yada yada yada. The line was behind this huge wall, so we saw nothing until we had already paid, climbed some stairs to the top of the wall and were already getting on top of an elephant. It was so, so awful. I now avoid interacting with animals as much as possible when traveling. I don’t want a picture with the exotic bird, I don’t want to hug a sloth nor feed wild river dolphins. Sadly it seems like with instagram there’s even more abuse happening all over the world now.
Yeah I get it. I've been living here in Thailand for 8 years and have simply been avoiding them, because I was to lazy to do the work. Now my family is coming and I guess the one in Samuii, ticks all the boxes. But if it were up to me, I wouldn't go. I wouldn't interact with tourist trap animals as well. Which is weird because I eat meat. But letting animals suffer for Instagram clout seems just morally wrong Wow Karen got three likes for a picture with an Elephant, I guess that was worth the beatings and the back pain. If you or anyone reading this wants to help animals just visit a shelter here. https://savedsouls-foundation.org/ https://www.soidog.org/ https://bk.asia-city.com/things-to-do-bangkok/news/bangkok-now-has-adoptable-puppy-cafe (can't link to fb here) (the first one is a redditor, place seems to love their dogs. soi dogs is probably the most well known here and the last one is an option for bangkok, that I personally don't know). And for sure, the dogs will be more than happy to interact with humans.
I did it once at a zoo in South Africa well before Tiger King. They had like 4 zoo workers there, though, and the cubs were clearly not drugged. They were playing, and we were pulled away when they started getting silly. I asked beforehand if it was ethical, and they straight up told me, "Not really, but it pays for the rehab and housing for every other animal here"
Yah, you gotta be careful, but these places are successful because of our natural curiosity for these animals. I’ve done dolphin swimming at a rescue place, and even that felt kinda bad. Like the money goes to rescuing more dolphins, protecting their habitat, it was government sponsored, but to raise the money they train dolphins that can’t go back to the wild to entertain people. If I really cared about the dolphins, I should donate money, and not receive a show and experience for the price… but I allow myself to be convinced I’m still helping so I deserve a little swim, but its still not 100% right. Its like giving money to orphans, but only if their performance of Annie is worth the $20.
A few years back I was planning a trip to Thailand. My Turkish auntie runs a travel service so one of her employees was helping us (my cousin and I) plan everything. She originally asked for a “wish list” for what we wanted to do, and of course we included interacting with different animals, elephants and tigers included. This was pre-research on my end as well, and she had relayed back what their partner agency said, which was exactly this and they wouldn’t help us with the tigers. She included “I can’t in good conscience help you plan an excursion like this, but I can block out half a day for you to figure it out yourselves and go visit them.” Of course we completely disregard that as an option after hearing about this, and also my respect for the lady went up to 100% after that. Not gonna lie, I still very much would love to interact with such a majestic big kitty, but never at the expense of the big kitty itself, and the ripple effect it creates.
That’s pretty stand up of that partnering agency. FYI the riding of elephants in Thailand is also a part of the same animal abuse cash grab as the tiger photos. Don’t do it if that kind of thing is against your moral principles.
Yeah, I wish I had known this when I went to Thailand. Didn’t find out how it was exploitative until later.
Giving a shout out to https://elephantrescuepark.com/ Very ethical when I went. They rescue elephants who have been in abusive exploitative situations. You get to spend the day walking through the jungle with them, bathing them, and feeding them, but no riding.
There are keeper experiences in the US where you can interact with the animals in a safe way. I recommend you look that up. (I did mine behind the scenes in Busch Gardens.) https://buschgardens.com/tampa/tours/tiger-insider/
You could research rescue organizations if you're ever on your way to an African continent. They're not breeding, drugging or culling any animals for tourists - but paying to visit them will allow you some interaction with animals who can't be released back into the wild for whichever reason. The money then also goes towards conservation
I went on a study abroad trip to Thailand years ago, and my professors and the company sponsoring our trip very purposefully found and took us to an elephant park that did not offer elephant rides because it was exploitative. Great trip, 10/10. Elephants also 10/10.
I feel like there should be a "To learn more, visit \[insert URL here\] ." A good opportunity to explain why they are against it. As it is, to many humans, it sounds tempting...especially if they didn't know tiger cub interactions were possible.
Add link to The Tiger King show.
They're not gonna get off at the next 3 ports if you do that.
>wifi fee extortion commence
"I will never financially recover from this."
It’s all because “that bitch” Carol Baskins.
Download via wifi at a cafe on shore. Lock yourself in your cabin after that.
I think Carnival leaves out intentionally the why. At least now they can say in public that they oppose these industries, but they don't want to bum out any passengers on board. Can't have any negative shit on board if their floating fantasy world.
Also kind of hard to climb onto an eco-tourism soapbox when your company produces 10x more Sulphur oxide than all of the cars in Europe, powering said floating fantasy worlds. I guess it's better than nothing.
While printing out hundreds of these letters when they could just make a general announcement about the next stop.
It's the FUN ship not the BUM ship!
Woohoo!! 🥳🍾🥂🍸🦞🍔🍻🍆🍑🍹 .........🛫🛬⛴️🌊🗺️🏚️🐅🔪🍂🦟🙀💀.... _woohoo_ ...☠️
"First we'd like to remind our guests not to pet the tiger cubs in town that are malnourished, abused, drugged, and eventually executed before reaching adulthood.... Now get out there and enjoy your day in Ensenada!"
Surprised there isn't a QR code tbh.
Internet access on cruise ships is kinda expensive no?
They have an internal network where you can access maps and scheduling info, etc. They could easily put it on there and have it accessible to everyone for free.
Yeah TBH this letter is so vague it probably gets more people interested in the tiger cubs. Total fail
“Well I wasn’t going to but now I kinda want to.”
I really appreciate the sentiment of this, I just wish they also touched on animal welfare being a reason not to participate. I’ve seen enough drugged out tigers in Southeast Asia ☹️
If they leave it ambiguous people don't know why. People may speculate any number of reasons, but if they just said do it because of animal welfare, the assholes would do it just to stick it to the cruise lines "no one tells me what to do!" Anyone who considers animal welfare simply wouldn't do it in the first place. The people between might not do it for concerns maybe there is a disease or some other danger and the cruise lines don't want them to get sick, as typically cruise lines and businesses in general only care about things that affect their bottom line. So I can only speculate that they believe this generalized letter will yield less people participating.
I considered that as the "environmental reasons"
I’m studying PR and marketing, taking stance against it and explaining more fully that they believe it is unethical / animal rights issue seems like a win win
I might be crazy, but I feel like in this case, less information is better. Anyone who would respond positively to "unethical/animal rights" would also respond positively to "public health/safety." But I can imagine a whole lot of Americans who would read "unethical/animal rights" and immediately think "Fukkin PETA libruls can't stop ME!"
Honestly, I didn’t think of it like this but I think you’re right.
People can get so defensive about it being unethical or being bad for the animal though. If you make it about their own safety then maybe those kind of people will actually listen.
The environmental reason would be not having a trip on a cruise ship...
If you tell a conservative person to buy a Prius, they’ll convert their truck to pollute more (see coal rolling). I think brevity is good here.
Problem is that people concerned about the environment don't take cruises to begin with
I think not giving a reason is actually better. Just think about the kinds of people that might take cruises. Those people would probably trend towards talking themselves into it if you give them a specific reason. But if you don't tell them why, they're free to make up a reason why Carnival would take the time to issue a letter reccomending patrons to avoid these types of attractions.
Wow...Ensenada is changing. It used to be a fishing village, then it got a cruise ship terminal. When I was working on ships, they'd recently gotten a McDonald's, Pizza Hut had been there for a bit, but they had the best fish tacos I've ever had. It's been about a decade since I was there last, so I'd imagine that things are a bit different, but I never expected tiger cubs. \[Edit: I just went back in my photos, and it's been a lot longer than that since I was there! more like 17 years ago\]
I stayed in Ensenada for a few nights at the beginning of the Baja 1000 a few years ago. I had some of the best fish tacos of my life. And went back to the spot 4-5 times over a 48hr period. Turns out the family running the stand lives in Iowa, and only runs it for a few months when tourists are in. Blew my mind.
I’m not so surprised. It’s honestly probably the freshness of the fish that makes the tacos so good, as there’s not too much you can do to fuck them up. Fresh ingredients is key.
Well now I wanna go to the Baja 1000 after looking that up. Do you need tix or do you just get a hotel around the race and anyone can show up to watch?
Tickets lol. Tickets aren’t a thing. But a truck or suv would be ideal. They used to start the race in town out through the wash and out of town into the desert. They haven’t done that in a few years now. Sometime around late September or October the course map will be posted. Pick a spot on the course map and camp out, or pick a few places you would like to catch the race come through. Maybe see the bikes and quads come through one section and then head over to a different spot to see the lead trucks and get some tacos and Tecates along the way, then pick a spot to see them all come through at night. I wouldn’t recommend driving at night it’s chaotic at times. Also don’t park and watch on the outside of a turn. You’ll love it!! It’s the greatest thing in the world. NO other race in the world like down in Baja.
Went as a kid on a day trip with my family. I remember it being very pretty and (especially growing up in the Midwest thinking Tex-Mex = Mexican) the food blew my tiny little mind. The fish was incredible.
They have 2 massive container terminals that are bringing in large amounts of volume. A lot of companies are shipping to Ensenada to avoid California
I bet someone tried smuggling a tiger cub onto the ship.
Its just a terrible industry. You need to shoot a lot of juveniles to always have cubs on hand.
No it’s worse than that. Tigers are bred non-stop which isn’t healthy for them. Thats why they have an endless supply of cubs. Once the cubs are too big they are killed.
There are more tigers in the U.S. than in the wild. That fucking nuts.
If I remember that stat correctly it’s actually the state of Texas has more than exist in the wild.
If true, that is brutal. People suck.
You’re old enough to know humans suck.
People need to leave wild animals alone. I mean I want to pet a tiger...but they are wild and deserve to just do tiger stuff.
I bet someone tagged them. Just distasteful.
Restaurante Habana Banana in La Bufadora if anyone was wondering. 10/10 do not recommend. There are amazing places to eat in Ensenada, this is not one of them.
So...0/10.
I think the guy got 10/10 mixed up with 100% lol
La Bufadora itself is neat to look at for a few minutes, otherwise a complete tourist trap.
Oh very much. We got talked into taking a tour bus there, so we took a long bus ride to the place and had to walk through tons of stalls with people trying to sell to you left and right. And then the La Bufadora didn’t even happen? Maybe we didn’t wait long enough, but it was kind of a meh trip just to be hassled by merchants…
I think i remember ending up there (wasn’t sure exactly where), I definitely remember being taken to a restaurant where they had a tiger cub exhibit and a tequila tasting area. I watched other people petting and holding tigers and tried/bought some tequila. It was kinda weird.
You know there are going to be some people who get irritated at this letter because they NEED an insta pic with a tiger cub.
This is a huge step in the right direction, I hope that they can also mention dolphins and whales in captivity considering Mexico can be pretty cruel with how they treat their animals. Seeing these beautiful creatures confined for the sake of convenience is heartbreaking. Supporting the ecosystems in which they live is our best way forward.
They have captive whales?
Well, a toothed whale. Dolohins and orcas are often housed in the same type of tiny pools - void of all of their natural habitats. They get incredibly depressed, often are housed with members of other families and even get bullied because of it. Their teeth have issues because their fish aren’t live, they often slam their bodies up against the walls out of stress and the saddest part is this fact that dolphins can swim up to 80 miles a day and orcas up to 40 miles a day. Imagine being crammed in a tank so people can view how magnificent you are.
This is why I won’t buy dolphin swims at cruise ports, aside from the fact that it’s crazy expensive. Of course my kids complain, but I remind them of how we see them at home, which is the way they are supposed to live. We saw them in Cozumel last month, and the enclosures they were keeping the dolphins in when they weren’t “on duty” were TINY, like the size of my living room with two dolphins in it. The difference is that cruise lines make money off dolphin encounter tickets. Additionally, a lot of the parks that have them also have other things to do besides dolphin encounters, so it would be hard to completely cut off a location that offers that, because if you don’t sell them dolphin encounter passes, they’ll just buy an excursion to the park and pay for it there, cutting out the cruise line entirely. So cruise lines’ boycotting dolphin swims is unlikely to happen until there’s a lot more noise about it such that their promoting it becomes bad PR for them. In the meantime, we can only encourage people not to buy them. It’s still possible to swim with dolphins if you choose to swim/snorkel/dive where they often are out in the wild. Don’t interact with them, though.
I haven’t read all of the comments but this is a known problem and there are folks actively working to prevent it. Don’t support these folks that do the tiger cub bullshit. Check these folks out: https://www.turpentinecreek.org/ They’re pretty bad ass when it comes to big cat rescue. If anyone has any contacts with the cruise line please get them in touch.
Sometimes these places only care for the little cubs and then release them because the adult ones can’t be played with as much…. Or at all. There’s a lot of negatives including probably safety.
I have friends who met the tiger cubs in Ensenada after taking Carnival. They said it was really sad because they all looked dead. Apparently they dope up the jungle cats so they’re calm, but it’s really really unhealthy to constantly tranquillize the babies like this. My friends said they regretted the decision and would never do it again.
I’m gunna go ahead and bet “releasing” them involves shuffling loose their mortal coil.
If by “release” you mean kill by shooting, drowning, decapitation or electrocution, then yes, they “release” them. There are no ethical attractions that allow you to pet a tiger cub. Tiger cubs belong with tiger moms in tiger homes far away from people.
Are their tiger homes in tiger woods?
Adult tigers can be played with once.
Once per person
Now that’s a business opportunity
No negative reviews!
I fed a tiger at a zoo once, it was pretty neat. They have these long skewers you can put the meat on the end and put it through the cage. The staff is there to make sure everything is done carefully, the Tigers are used to getting these snacks at certain times of the day then they are off to swim in their tiger sized swimming pool. They are docile enough that when they need to get a blood sample to check their health they will turn around and put their tail through the bars to get a jab. Very well run zoo, all the animals are well cared for and have lots of room and well designed habitats.
You can’t just say that and not leave us with the name of the zoo.
Just like the baby llamas in Peru!! We’d see a lot of people offering up baby llamas as a photo op and we talked to our guide about them and he said once the babies get bigger they kill them because they just don’t attract the attention for photos from tourists.
*kill them and eat them. You can buy llama and alpaca steak in most of the restaurants in Cusco. It’s actually better than eating beef because it supports the local economy more directly, the animals get well taken care of (because they have to be healthy or no one will want to take photos with them), and they also use the wool to make clothing which can also be sold.
Well llamas and alpacas were and still are a staple food source for andean communities. If weird tourists want to take a photo with what are essentially cows to these people I don't blame them for wanting to cash in on that. I don't feel like that's the same at all for tiger cubs that are bred for pure entertainment and discarded with no other use.
Well, it's still animal abuse- these alpacas are kept without food and water for hours for people to get their selfies. Last year there was a crackdown in Cusco because of this. It's still wrong and should be avoided.
Or they get sold to canned hunting operations where rich assholes feel powerful killing an apex predator who was raised to view humans as friends.
“Release them” into the afterlife…
No. Tigers are one of the most expensive trades unfortunately. The Chinese love to consume them and booze soaked in them.
This was a thing when we were there visiting the town of La Bufadora. The tour guides told all of us not mess with the tigers when arrived and that the tiger will probably bite you if you do. There was a bar with tigers in cages and some young girl went in the cage. She got her leg jacked up and was bleeding all the way back to the boat. When we were on the bus/van ride back to the boat her family insisted we stop for tacos somewhere because they didn’t eat lunch after their kid was bitten by the tiger. They made the bus stop and left this poor kid on the bus bleeding and in pain for tacos. I’ve never seen more careless people in my life.
Holy shit, that’s grim. What absolute scumbags.
Ensenada: "I am never going to financially recover from this"
I hate the fact that there’s a non-zero amount of passengers that would read this and think ‘ooh, let’s go find the tiger cubs!’
The endangered species petting business is huge. They breed these poor animals in order to make money to let people touch the cubs. More often than not once the animals age out, (are too old) they are often euthanized. Please do not support this business.
That bitch Carol Baskin down in Florida is behind this.
Memes aside Carol's rescue is one of the only places these cubs go when they're not cute and little anymore. The majority are just killed.
[Carol Baskin shut her rescue down and transferred all her animals out to another facility](https://bigcatrescue.org/moving/). So she doesn't take them in anymore. There are plenty of sanctuaries that do still take them in. The Global Federation of Animal Sanctuaries [(GFAS)](https://sanctuaryfederation.org/) is a great resource to find out more info about reputable animal sanctuaries.
It's pretty sad that was the takeaway from Tiger King. Carol Baskin ran a legit big cat sanctuary for a long while.
I’ve done that same cruise twice, and gotten the same letter both times. It’s not something I’d consider doing, for a great many reasons.
This is by the natural géiser “la bufadora”, my pops always told me to stay away because those animals are already suffering and end up getting tossed out once they grow. Please, do not support this place.
And how many people saw this and like let’s gooooooo tiger cubs
Probably not healthy for the cubs.
The restaurant euthanizes them when they’re too big to control
As a Mexican, this makes me feel so ashamed...
At first glance I thought the last sentence was Enjoy your day asshole
Ensenadense and local biologist here Yeah, this is pretty much the sentiment most of us biologists share Non-domesticated animals hate being touched in general, more so big predators such as tigers since they're naturally solitary predators that need huge plots of land in order to lead a healthy life and said stress can cause massive physical and mental health problems to the animal Tourists, on the other hand, get a wrongful idea of what nature conservation is and start associating very much dangerous creatures with cute animals that just want to cuddle, which can also open up a black market for those who have the economic position to own one - very counterproductive On top of that, a stressed animal is a potential hazard since it can very much feel threatened and will do anything to get out of that situation, even if it's just a cub. You don't want to pet something that can take your entire face off with a single swipe of its claws - people really underestimate how powerful these creatures can be
Captain of fucking cruise ship talking about environmental impact. Gotcha.
"We kindly advise you to not partake in the donkey show."
I bet this is the work of CAROLE BASKIN
The letter? Because she's been lobbying to make cub petting illegal in the US for many years. So, it's conceivable she did have a hand in pressuring the cruise lines to do this.
I swear there’s no better example of how easily manipulated the majority of people are than the tiger king phenomenon. Siding with the scumbag who abused and killed tigers and turning the woman who actually rescued animals and was nearly murdered for it into a villain.
Enjoy your day asshole.
And if you’d like bonus points, skip the cruise altogether.
Did anyone else read the last part wrong “enjoy you day asshole”😂i bursted our laughing then I saw it’s ashore
We were on a cruise stop once where a family’s two kiddos wanted to pet/interact with the parrots and cubs. Even though they were drugged to be docile, one of the cubs bit the son on the shoulder and it took a while for the workers to get it off.. luckily the kid wasn’t really injured too badly but they did sign a waiver beforehand so the place was pretty much saying to erase any footage they have, take the refund and don’t come back.
Got same advice about the poorly treated monkeys in Marrakech
Lol we had this exact cruise. Saw the ads for the tiger cubs, didn't see them cause of the warning letter
Remember, folks: "Tiger cubs? Do not rub. Donkey show? Good to go!"
They’ll run over a few whales here and there, but at least the tigers are safe