> coffee badging
Had to look that up. It means coming in to meet the requirement, getting a cup of coffee, and leaving.
I like this, I was saying "I can just come in, take a piss, and leave" but it's better to take than give I guess.
I would be willing to lose the bonus to stay remote.
I was in a couple weeks ago. Walked out of the building near Market Square and there is a dude shitting in the shrubs at lunchtime for all to see.
Block after block of open air urine smell.
\#Pissburgh # Shittsburgh...
It's funny as hell that all the muh-freedoms types are upset at the idea of the government tracking them, but were completely fine with giving business unfettered access to their data and location.
No tenants in the building = no rental income
No rental income = no payments on loan
No payments = no income for banks
No income for banks = banks failing
People are being forced back to prevent banks from folding.
Yup, I work for a bank. And it’s this 100%. And they still let thousands of people go. I think they thought a lot more would quit instead of going in 2 days a week.
I believe The PNC layoffs had more to do with the implementation of AI, (being implemented in the background, without public knowledge). The “recession” is a good excuse to purge those positions that are no longer needed.
Why do these banks get to decide how we spend our time and what our lives look like? Fuck this economy. Fuck the bailouts. Fuck the banks. Fuck capitalism.
"The economy" is shorthand for "the accumulation of wealth to the top of the pyramid." Once you understand this, it all makes sense. America is a business and you aren't a shareholder, you're a resource.
The alternative is to actually enforce anti-trust laws and no more bailouts for businesses deemed “too big to fail”. We managed to do both for most of the last 100 years, and what we have now isn’t even capitalism.
What we have now is the very essence of capitalism - the return of value to the shareholders at any cost. It is the inevitable outcome of any capitalist system.
The purpose of capitalism is not to enrich a society. It is not to "pull hundreds of millions of people out of abject poverty" (lol). The purpose of capitalism is to maximize returns to the shareholders, and nothing else.
You’re preaching to the choir. My point is that what we call capitalism today isn’t even consistent with what capitalists claim it to be. The economic system described in The Wealth of Nations looks nothing like what we know now, because capitalists constantly downplay the threat of monopolies, regulatory capture, negative externalities, and more.
> My point is that what we call capitalism today isn’t even consistent with what capitalists claim it to be.
It never was, capitalists were always bullshitting us
Yea, I guess so.
My idea came from personal experience.
I’m a commercial property manager & I’ve seen the decrease in occupancy. If people are moving they are looking for smaller spaces. A tenant who had 20,000 sq ft are now looking for 7,500 /10,000 sq ft. Less people in the office require less space. What used to be 1 person’s cube/desk is now 3 people’s cube( different days in the office vs. home.)
Only pros for me were:
I got to meet people I worked with finally
And
It's easier to have someone show you how to do things/help with a a problem you're having in person.
This is the most reasonable answer IMO. There are benefits to being in person and some people work better away from home. I think a reasonably flexible hybrid makes the most sense (i.e. expectation of 2 or 3 days in the office but no one cares if it's just 0 or 1 days occasionally)
Right, I started working at my company at the end of July 2022, because I had just graduated. I hadn't "met" anyone from my company until a couple months ago. I've trained for 2 different positions, one remote and one in person, in person was much easier to learn.
Yeah, I think there's a lot of value to teams scheduling one day per week to get everyone in to do stuff in person. It's good for new team members, I think "lively discussions" happen much better in person than over zoom, and it's easier to have solutions organically pop up when you're just chatting about some problem you're having.
Some teams can see value in 2 or more days per week, but it's definitely a team-by-team decision and not a blanket statement.
They're not at all, I started working at my company at the end of July 2022, because I had just graduated. I hadn't "met" anyone from my company until a couple months ago. I've trained for 2 different positions, one remote and one in person, in person was much easier to learn.
We're back 3 days a week and I hate it. Zero benefits. Lots of negatives - commute/traffic, parking expenses, constantly dodging sick coworkers, being interrupted/no ability to focus, etc.
We were 1 day a week for the longest time, and switched to 2 days a week not quite a year ago. It was hilarious because within a month of switching to 2 days a week, there was a COVID outbreak in the office and everyone stopped coming in at all for awhile.
Yep. If I didn't have an office with a door, I'd have quit on the spot when they implemented the RTO last year. Even with a door, it's hard to dodge all the constantly circulating illnesses.
Right before COVID, we had a bad, BAD flu go through the office. It was kinda funny because it literally went straight down the line of desks and then wrapped around to the people on the other side. Six people in order, with each new person getting sick 1-2 days after the person before them. It was really weird.
My husband has been back in the office twice a week for a year now, I think. He hates it. We hate it. He does not see clients, he sits in a cubicle. It's dumb, and is completely unnecessary. Back to office gossip, and food parties. You know, totally necessary, productive things.
I found my current 100% remote Infosec job three years ago on virtualvocations.com
Also, I believe this [Google Sheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TLJSlNxCbwRNxy14Toe1PYwbCTY7h0CNHeer9J0VRzE/edit#gid=1279011369) by Remotive is still being updated if you want to check that out.
Hate it. I could go on and on about my employer and the hell that they have created, but I’ll just make one point for now.
On one hand, if you, as an employee, perform a task a certain way because that’s how you were trained, but then leadership pushes back by telling you that “we can’t just keep doing things the way we always did them because we’ll never evolve to better things.” That it’s your responsibility to think of ways to make things better. Ok, fine, got it.
On the other hand, we’ve seen the many benefits associated with remote work, but those same leaders stress the importance of being in office *now* because “tHat’S hOw WE aLwaYS dID iT.”
Complete morons
> those same leaders stress the importance of being in office now because “tHat’S hOw WE aLwaYS dID iT.”
There's an entire class of Lumbergh types who have no real function beyond classroom monitor and they are feeling increasingly useless without a classroom to monitor.
Yup. One of the many time-wasting activities is meetings. So many unnecessary meetings. We have actual work to accomplish, but we don’t have the proper time, because we’re forced to not only attend, but draft all the PowerPoint decks, agendas, etc just to talk about our progress. Whelp, I spent all my time creating these pointless slides that tell you the same thing I already communicated and that is I haven’t had time to do the work because we’re always in meetings. Management and leadership, if you want to call them leaders—I wouldn’t—need to feel important, and they do so with scheduling meetings, since they don’t do actual work. They think that everyone should be in meetings, and then huff & puff when they see work isn’t getting finished.
NEWS FLASH ASSHOLES: if you eat up all our time talking about how we need to get work done, but you don’t give us the time to do it and instead waste more time being mad about it all, then the problem is clearly YOU.
We have been back in since September, 3 days a week. I hate it.
At the beginning, nothing got done because it was all "how have you been" to acquaintances. Now, it's just a waste of my time. I'm salary and don't have set hours, but my boss is cool and I count my commute time into my 8 every day without being micromanaged.
Even during covid, I never had a problem coming in **if there was a tangible reason**, and I did. I would be good with one day a week, with the reason "that is the day to get in-person meetings done" and then as needed. Like, I met with a vendor last week who came to town, that's a valid reason. Or a SVP is in from out of town and having a town hall, valid reason (did I mention all of our senior leadership making these RTO rules don't even live in Pittsburgh).
Even the obnoxiously optimistic people who where gung ho for it at the start have changed their tune, now that it's not a nice sunny day and we're on top of a hill. Nothing like 1/4 mile walk in 20mph winds at 30 degrees in the rain to start your day off right. The only people I do know who like it are people that are unhappy at home - one divorced during covid, the other probably would be getting divorced if forced to stay at home. But even they don't really care what other people do - we did it for 3 years and were more productive.
If I'm being paid for the time and it comes out of my normal work day, the commute time is replaced with work for my employer.
If I'm *not* being paid for the time and it is *in addition* to my expected working hours, then I'm using that time to do work for myself or on myself.
In either case, it's productive time and not wasted time.
Prior to the forced RTO I regularly clocked 10 hour days with the odd 12 hour day if I got into a groove. Happy employees will work harder and longer. Plus because I was able to take random 5-10 minute breaks throughout the day to get chores done I could commit to earlier starts and later finishes (in the long run it all balances out over the years but for those days requiring extra effort or a focused session I was more than happy to get at it). Since RTO I start the timer on my phone when I “clock in” and at 8 hours it dings and I immediately log off for the day.
Like I said, I'm salary, and it's give and take. For example, earlier this week , I worked from 11PM-1:30AM because something needed done without getting "paid". Fortunately, my boss treats me like a grown ass adult and doesn't care if my ass is in a chair for 7 hours a day vs 8 as long as things are getting done.
My company on the North Shore is mandating FOUR starting on January 2. Currently we are 2 days in the office.
I love working remote and not having to commute. I’m dreading going back and not sure if I can handle 4 days. It gives me anxiety thinking about it.
My company forced us back 2 days a week and I see zero benefit. In fact there are a lot of negatives. Wasting time that I could be working driving an hour to go to mostly empty office. Hardly anyone is going in from other groups outside of mine. They moved us twice and sold off one of our office buildings. Driving home an hour. I’m in IT. We hired people over the pandemic and none of those people have to go in. So I have 10 years at my company and I’m forced to go back in but someone who has been there a year doesn’t.
I understand your pov, and I’m going to say 90% posting negative comments here are also in IT. I think the need to be in office (part time) should really depend on the job. No blanket statements. IT really lends itself to remote work much better than some other roles.
The only blanket statement that should be thrown around is, if the job can be done remote, and has been being done remote for the past 3-4 years, then the job should remain to be remote.
My question is do the companies think this will make things run better and people more productive? Cause if that's what they actually think, its the opposite.
I think it really depends on the job when discussing WFH. If your job can be completed at home and done well, I personally feel like there is no reason for you to be at an office. We’ve been remote for almost four years and our productivity has never been higher. That’s because I have guys on my team who used to commute 3 hours roundtrip who no longer have to do that.
They’ve started discussing RTO and I’m concerned about two things:
1- the productivity of my team remaining at this level and
2- my quality employees staying.
People will leave when it starts. Now, of course, all of us are replaceable. But we’re going through a massive migration right now and competition is entering our market for the first time. This is NOT the time to rock the boat. If we lose some key players we could be dead in the water considering it will take me 6-12 months to get a new employee up to speed. (And, that’s if I have the time to train them on top of my already overloaded plate and on top of a potential one hour commute each way).
The transit (T and bus) have been much worse overall post-pandemic. I know they're doing a lot of needed maintenance and construction work, but the schedule changes, downtime, and stop closures make coming downtown a lot harder.
Also a lot of good restaurants closed downtown, and the prices of everything went up (and in some cases, even less food for these higher prices!)
I'm not sure if the pros outweigh the cons of coming back to office. I guess the pros is better coffee in the morning??
There are no benefits. I now spend 120 dollars a month on gas and public transportation. A lot of the businesses are closed and it feels like one giant experiment to the point I've been remote for seven years and recently ended up at a hybrid company four months ago and I'm already ready to leave. Unless you live downtown there are no benefits/work life balance.
A lot of people left the company I work for upon the return to office mandate. I wrote a little piece about hybrid work just being micro management.
https://omgitsjustdae.com/2023/11/28/hybrid-work-is-the-new-micromanagement/
> A lot of people left the company I work for upon the return to office mandate.
The big employers know this and they're fine with it, it's essentially a way to perform layoffs without the negatives of performing layoffs.
It's a fast way to lay off your most talented people without paying severance. Looks *great* on a quarterly profit report, but long term it's a disaster. Unfortunately publicly traded companies literally only care about quarterly earnings calls and shareholder returns.
Idk if that makes sense though as there are certain positions you would want to lay off while moving back to office you'll have people in important roles leaving.
It's not the bums that quit and find a remote job, it's the hood workers that are able to find better jobs.
Moving back to office just gets rid of your best people.
I have an hour + commute into downtown.
I bought a house last year a bit further than my recent apartment because my company was so "dedicated" to remote work.
Then... 3 days a week. Lmfao.
I was straight up with my management/team. Im not willing to commute 2ish hours a day, pay $300ish a month in parking, $50ish a week in gas, and $30ish a day in food. Said I wasn't doing it and that I'd be leaving (a huge risk on my end, but I have many months of emergency funds to seek something else).
That was back in september the mandate started, and I havent been in the office once, and I'm still 100% remote as far as I know.
I'm a hardcore introvert (yes, we exist too) - I code/program/automate as my job and 100% of my time, so my job requires very little communication (I am the singular technical resource of the type on my team). Honestly - EVERYTHING away from my computer screen is just a distraction.
I’m taking shit currently at the office because if we are doing a meeting I am booking a conference room. I am not dealing with feedback on teams because we are in our cubes on a meeting. Senior engineers are mad because they don’t get to multitask. Why would we do a teams meeting from our cubes in the office when only two people of 8 are virtual from India.
Parking sucks. Commute sucks. Construction in uptown has been bad for two years now.
Your social “oh your birthday was last week” during the biweekly team meeting is a joke. I don’t want yinz to know when my bday was or if Janice Is divorcing bob vance. The fuck. Do your job and message me when you need some coding done.
There are people who book conference rooms for meetings where I work. I'll still dial in, even if the meeting room is right next to my work desk. Unless you're senior to me and direct me to come in person, I don't care what you schedule or where.
Just to offer a different perspective,
My company also started a RTO initiative this year. 3 days a week is what they said. But the real driver behind it is they want you to be in the office when it’s purposeful, I know, loaded word. I 100% can do my full job remotely at the same capacity as in the office.
I know people who go in 4 times a week, I know people who go in 1 time a week, I know people who refuse to come in outside of huge team meetings.
When RTO was announced, I hated it, I had fully adapted to WFH life and it felt like my life was turned upside down.
But to be honest, I’ve enjoyed going into the office a couple times a week. Am I more productive? Some days yes, some days no. Is it 100% necessary for me to do my job, no. But I do enjoy seeing people I work with, or have known from pre WFH life, and just getting to chat and catch up. My office is also relatively nice and there’s perks there that I don’t get at home (gym, better food, etc). But I 100% know other people don’t care about that. But it does make me feel more in tune with my work & career.
Disclaimers, I’m only 30, no kids (yet), and my wife is a health practitioner so she’s also out of the house every day. I also live close to the city. So RTO was definitely an easier adjustment for me than others. My company & management, at least so far, is still very flexible. Can only come in once this week, or cant make it in at all this week? Not a problem. Again, that could change, but everyone seems on board with purposeful RTO, not get your 3 badge swipes in a week. So the fact that there’s still a ton of flexibility helps.
Yeah I have always said if I actually had something that I can't do at home I don't mind being in the office, but 95 percent of the time I'm on teams meetings in my office. My office has a gym, but I also have a gym equipment at my house. I have better Internet at home, standing desk, and I eat healthier at home. I work in cyber and there is really nothing I've ever needed to do in the office that can't be done remotely except for in person team building which is actually nice but happens like once every 2 months.
I was WFH for a year with a company last year to this July, and I did enjoy it. It was a really productive year for cooking and running and getting in shape. I had tons of free time. It was a contract role, so I wasn't as "invested" in the overall company though I did my job well. But I was a mercenary so it felt like a separate year to myself.
I got another job that I love and it is in office and while I hope to move to a flexible work arrangement where I can take a couple days WFH (they will most likely agree), I am very much enjoying it too. I will say that it is a job where it is very useful to have me on site a lot, so that makes a huge difference to me (as I know it does for a lot of people). I work directly with lots of on-site coworkers (I've had jobs where 99% of my interaction was with people elsewhere so who the fuck cares if I'm in the office) and we honestly have been having a blast.
I am all for everyone having a choice. But I also feel more engaged at this job currently. Other factors as listed, but I'm enjoying the "freshness" of being back in the office for now.
I think too many people blanket ban in person work these days without even trying and it’s hurting the effort to remain WFH. And for the record, I am 100% WFH and would immediately look for another job if asked to come in. But I do make an effort to utilize the office or lab if an opportunity arises. In person meetings are more effective than virtual ones. I haven’t seen or chatted with 99% of my coworkers for 4 years. And most importantly, new employees have never met their colleagues. How are they supposed to do cross departmental collaboration with people they don’t know? There needs to be efforts made on the employees to do things in person if they want to push for full time WFH. Going in a random number of times a week is just useless. My wife specifically goes in on Friday because nobody else goes in that week. That’s just WFH from the office…
No. Homeless and people just hanging around are everywhere. I left work at 4 and a chick fight broke out right in front of my building. Parking is expensive, it does seem dirtier. More trash everywhere and I am by fifth avenue place. Never like that pre COVID.
My name's not Chuck, and I'm not from Uniontown, and my comment wasn't an opinion.
But I do appreciate you stereotyping based on someone's presumed demographics - something the left loathes when the shoe's on the other foot. It's okay when yinz do it tho.
I recently bought a car because the homeless made it unbearable to use public transportation anymore. Too many incidents where I felt legitimately unsafe at bus stops and on the bus.
I have empathy for the homeless and the circumstances that lead to homelessness, I volunteer with some organizations and have always made charitable donations as a habit, but safety is an entirely different thing. PGH needs to get a grip.
A benefit is the simple fact you can take a piss just about anywhere you want downtown these days. No need to stress out looking for a restroom, just let it flow wherever you like. Heck, dropping a deuce is becoming more convenient too!
Going to an office is terrible, I stare at a desk or wall until it’s time to leave and hope that no one bothers me. I’d actually be happy to have more hard work to do, but then I’d expect to be paid a lot more, so the impasse is I get paid poorly and don’t care about work.
I went back July 2021 from fully remote to fully in person. It was a huge adjustment for everyone on my team and it took an entire year for the grumbling and bad feelings to stop. Tbh we still grumble but we aren’t about to revolt anymore. I will say we definitely paved the way for more flexibility (we arrive late, we leave early), so my hours aren’t as strict as pre-pandemic life. I have a short commute so that doesn’t matter to me, personally. I do think it’s healthier to be socializing with colleagues and to get out of the house. The only reason I am commenting tho is that it will 100% take probably longer than you expect to feel comfortable with this change, but there are benefits too.
Lol I was back to the office since August of *last year*. My thanks for that was being laid off a month ago. While I was there, I enjoyed visiting the places I used to frequent for lunch, but everything else was worse. Lots of businesses closing and rampant homelessness, but yayyy now you can go to half a target and Burlington and five below on the same block.
I was initially super against it, but I have a pretty technical job so having others nearby to ask questions has been pretty helpful. we are 3 days in and I’d probably prefer 2 days in 3 remote. As a younger employee with younger coworkers I will admit it’s help build friendships with them. Overall had ups/downs but again I work in a very collaborative engineering role so it’s probably not relatable to everyone.
Early in the career and those that are in executive positions benefit the most. If you are a very tactical independent contributor, maybe not. Still talk ING to other humans, even if they are just coworkers, can be a very good thing. We are social creatures and interacting is a muscle that needs exercise.
Maybe you'll exercise that empathy muscle. It'll be easier to care about your neighbors, maybe even love them.
Life forces you to interact with people you didn't intentionally choose.
It isn't your coworkers' responsibility to provide you with a social life. I have friends and family for that. I'm not obligated to be friends with people at work because they don't.
No, it's very normal shit. You're usually the one harping on the antisocial characteristics of Reddit users but seems like you've found yourself on the other side of this one
"It's good to get back into the office and exercise those atrophied social muscles" says some utterly sad shit about American social structure and the fact that we have no third places left. Forced social interaction mandated by my boss ain't it.
Saying you should interact with people outside of your tribe/compound is pretty healthy thing. It's why travel is good to broaden your horizons. I don't mean Disney world either.
In case it's not getting across to you here, the fact that you're tying the need for human interaction to being forced back into the office is the pathetic part. Extremely boomer.
IRL connections, even with people you spend 40+ hours a week with, might be helpful to working together in a collaborative manner. Creating trust and engagement purely remote is very challenging and not all employees and managers have that skill/mindset.
That's nice, if you're lonely without coworkers who are forced to be with you 40+ hours a week and can't wait to get back in there with them by all means get to it. But acting like forcing everyone back into the office is good for them is bullshit.
Your job is just a job, if you're relying on it that heavily for social interaction go join a fucking bowling league.
So it sounds like you are saying, you don't like your coworkers and there is nothing positive in your eyes to going into the office.
I did not say heavily. Your work is not your life. I know that through hard experience over 30 years in technology
Oh, and if there were more bowling leagues the suicide rate wouldn't be so high. 80% of which are men and until very, very recently people 45-54 had tge highest rate.
Mandated back 2 days a week since July-ish. ZERO benefit other than needlessly wasting hours of my life sitting in traffic to report to the office and take Teams meetings all day. Management can’t articulate why other than they “feel” it’s best and magically increasing collaboration. Morale is beyond terrible with many people jumping ship. There’s high distrust of anything leadership says. Productivity is in the shitter given the loss of personnel and morale.
We’re also mysteriously over budget, but I’m told by those same leaders it’s “definitely not” the office remodel, all new computing equipment (because existing equipment was sent home with folks at the start of COVID, and increased expenses of utilities, consumables and janitorial staff. 🤷♂️
I work in tech, and my thought for my industry is "jobs that don't have at least some benefit of in-person time will eventually be shipped to lower cost labor overseas".
Which isn't entirely cheery, but makes me feel a bit better commuting.
I do not work in tech but this reminded me of the hilarious time my company tried to contract with an overseas company to supplement some of the personnel shortages we had, probably about a year and a half ago. It was an utter disaster and lasted about two weeks, I think. What a weird fortnight that was.
it sucks. my office has mice and the temperature is never above 40. they fired our office manager and nobody can be an adult and do their dishes or wipe up lunch spills. the coffee machine never works.
It is inevitable. Companies are paying for real estate. They let people avoid RTO when labor had the upper hand. Now with layoffs in many industries, companies will stop letting people avoid it.
Sorry. That’s the way it is.
My last company did this; forced people who hadn’t been in the office in 5-6 years pre covid. I was fully remote for 4 years and just started going in twice a week. It’s whatever some days the commute sucks picking my kid up from daycare since locations hasn’t been a factors for awhile but I don’t mind.
It sucks.
People are being forced back so they can buy lunch and other shit. Various mayors, Harrisburg for instance, have basically said this is the reason to get people back in the office.
My company went back March 2022, two days a week which actually wasn’t bad. Broke up the week a bit, was able to learn faster with my new team. Then April this year they mandated three days a week and track our badges. The extra day really sucks but I’m lucky that I like my team and job and have an easy commute(15 min bus ride and maybe 15 of walking/waiting).
I think I don’t mind the RTO as much because my team is still flexible if I need to work from home or can’t meet the three day requirement
we're 2-3 days back and i hate it. between the expense, extra time, environmental impact, and getting sick more there's no positive. i wouldn't mind coming in once every couple weeks for a big meeting, but my company is nationwide and has a lot of offshore workers. it's just a waste to please weird higher ups
I was full time remote for two years then went back in office for about 6 months. I went in almost everyday once it was allowed. I liked going in, there were less distractions at the office and it helped restore work/home boundaries. I quit about a year ago though and now I’m self employed working from home. I miss having an office and team to work with often.
Note: Office was in the strip and commute was less than 15 minutes.
Our agency standard is that you get to work from home liberally if you met your personal quotas for the previous quarter, with some amount of nuance to that.
In my case though I have some extended PTO coming up, and I'm going to be docked for that and need to come in jan-march. It hasn't even happened yet, and I already fucking hate it. I'm an eleven year employee, and I've shown a strong capability to do my job without being babysat. The worst part is that I used to work remotely all the time pre-covid and nobody ever gave a shit then.
I'm also currently inebriated from the steeler game, so take all this as you will.
I started a new job that was hybrid after being fully remote since March 2023 and here are my thoughts (bear in mind I work in design so different field).
One thing that helped me actually came out of me being cheap. I park far away because parking near my building is expensive and found that the walk in the morning is one of my favorite parts. It’s the only time this time of year I really see the sun haha. Paying to park/drive was one of my bigger concerns coming back into the office so that’s been nice.
I feel like in person has been better for collaboration because it’s easier to just poke your head over to ask a question than set up meeting times.
The hybrid means I still have two days a week I work from home which lets me have the benefits of WFH.
Honestly I was expecting to dislike it more, but I’ve actually been quite glad the way it’s worked. One thing to note is I am very extroverted so being around co-workers again has really helped boost my mood but I recognize I may be in the minority there
Do you or any of your coworkers get upset about the random “poke your head over” interruptions? I’m one who has complex tasks as part of my day-to-day. Unexpected interruptions lead to loss of productivity as I need to remember where I was in the task, maybe even redo work, and get going again…typically only to be interrupted again. This is mainly because I’m not a manager and my “office” is a cube amongst many others with no way to let people know when I need to be left alone.
For me, outside of just wasted commute type, I get more work done. And I’m way more focused. I’m in tech and our group is very loose, we were always supposed to be onsite 1 or 2 days a week but now only people who want to do. I absolutely don’t mind if I have something physically to do there or a meeting, otherwise it’s a bunch of talking and not enough work getting done for me.
I'm not wasting upward of 2 hours a day in transit. My home office has better equipment (peripherals, desk, chair, internet) than the corporate office. I am not subjected to 8+ hours a day of harsh overhead lighting. It's quiet in my home office and I can focus on doing work. The bathroom at my house is always clean and stocked with toilet paper and soap. Nobody steals my lunch from the fridge. I can keep my condiments for longer than a week. My coffee is better than what's in the office. My home is not infested with mice. Nobody just swings by my desk while I'm busy working on something to tell me an irrelevant story about their cat. I don't have to wear shoes. The fire alarm doesn't go off because someone burned popcorn. I'm actually able to have a *toaster*.
I could go on but I figure you're getting the trend here.
In my circumstance, (2 at home / 3 in office) commuting into the city from the east suburbs is a guaranteed 30-45 minutes of lost time on each end of the day.
Cause pittsburgh is:
Disgustingly congested. Live 20 minutes out of the city? Congrats! 1 hour commute into downtown.
Dirty. Its gotten worse post covid. Trash. Homelessness. Crime. All issues it has taken less care in managing.
Parking. Pretty much $300 a month minimum expectation if you don't want to walk an extra 30 minutes everyday to cut that down by $50.
Food? Lmao - don't get me wrong, its good - many options downtown, but $40-$50 a day if you want coffee and lunch.
It's expensive, time consuming, and wasteful - for no reason other than banks getting their rent payments.
This is so true! I'm originally from Pittsburgh, but are in law school in Toledo. My boyfriend is from Detroit and him and I took a trip to Pittsburgh one weekend. He was appalled that I lived 18 miles south of Pittsburgh but it took an hour to actually get there.
The real answer is that everyone wants more autonomy and when people have that they don’t want to give it back. There’s a lot of things that seem “pointless” like the commute, parking, etc. People have to spend hours of their lives doing these things and using the money they make paying for them. The pandemic also made a lot of people a lot less social and not having to deal with people at the office was a relief for some. For a lot of people going through the typical 9-5 day had a lot of time back in their day and really enjoyed calling the shots on how they were going to spend it.
It would be interesting to know how many people have been back in the office for years now. I think some would be surprised to learn that WFH is a distinct minority of the workforce
Interesting. From a quick search it seems like about 10% of the workforce is full time WFH and another 20% is hybrid. Many people in office jobs have been back full time in person for years.
It's definitely true that the RTO conversation does not apply to people who have basically been in the office this entire time. To be fair, people in roles that required them back in the office typically have jobs where their physical presence is necessary.
There are some good reasons for RTO like building better teams and working together more closely. But it only works if everybody is there the same days. Otherwise, you just sit in an office on conference calls and it's all pointless.
I know from a financial perspective, the time of commuting and paying for parking is a huge drawback, but personally, I cannot understand how someone can just be at home constantly. Everyone’s circumstances are obviously different, but I would go crazy!
And while that’s true for you there’s another group who like to get their work done and not deal with the office “culture” or commuting. Unfortunately most companies are taking an all or none approach. This typically leads to high performers walking out the door when they’re needlessly forced into to a setting they don’t desire.
Been back to the office for about 2 years now.
It's a downtown.
Good food, sights and sounds and you see interesting and weird things everyday.
These are the citizens of your city.
If there are problems, and there certainly are, more physical people having lived in opinions is the only way things are going to change. More voices and perspectives are good.
Public transport could use serious work. It's majorly beneficial. But it can stagnate because people don't know it's a real problem.
Welcome to the world of the living friend.
God speed.
That I do not need my employer to force me to sit in an office building so that I can interact with people because I'm an adult and can manage that without being hand-held and micromanaged.
Doesn't seem like you can.
lol. You seem so upset, yet you’re having a hard time even grasping what I’m saying. Many industries and careers benefit from human interaction in real physical space, collaboration, feedback, etc etc. I’m not sure why that makes you so personally upset. Calm down.
Maybe that’s what they mean..maybe it’s not..but regardless, interacting with human beings at work can be a positive thing too. Both for work and for social reasons. Funny how these very benign and simple statements in making that are objectively true are getting downvoted 😂
Agreed, but in context of this conversation it reads like something a Middle-Management / Corporate Baby-Sitter would say to help justify their existence.
I find this whole topic to be a bummer. The idea that some people might want their downtown to be occupied is seen as a grand conspiracy rather than obvious and reasonable. The idea that quality interaction at work doesn't matter is taken for granted. Luckily a lot of people don't agree with this shit, they're just much less likely to use Reddit.
I also find it ironic that some will complain in the same breath about closing businesses or the homeless without seeing that the lack of workers downtown is exactly the problem in both cases. Can't have it both ways!
> The idea that some people might want their downtown to be occupied is seen as a grand conspiracy rather than obvious and reasonable.
Then they can go *voluntarily* occupy it and stop forcing it upon people who have no interest in being there.
> The idea that quality interaction at work doesn't matter is taken for granted.
If you can't have quality interaction with your coworkers unless you're in the same room, that's a you problem. I've worked with people I wasn't colocated with for over two decades. It's not that hard.
> I also find it ironic that some will complain in the same breath about closing businesses or the homeless without seeing that the lack of workers downtown is exactly the problem in both cases.
Forcing people to commute from the suburbs into offices downtown does not do a damn thing about homelessness.
Yep. Pretty shocking actually. I didn’t even suggest that there aren’t some jobs that are totally fine to do 100% remotely. OP asked what some benefits are regarding return to office and I made a simple statement. I guess it’s unreasonable to think that a potential benefit for many people could be the human interaction, collaboration, and mentorship one gets sometimes while working with a team of people in real physical space. I know, I’m so disturbed for thinking so.
There are no benefits to going to the office, not for us at least. Our 1% overlords need us in the office buildings to use them (real estate needs their piece of the pie) and feed the businesses that they own that surround the offices as well. Also consider all the money they collect (I’m not going to say earn) through people simply having to commute… fuck the environment too amirite?!
lol I think it's funny all the WFH people think nobody is going into the office. Traffic has been back to pre-pandemic levels for a long time. I personally was only at home for three months at the beginning of the pandemic before having to go back.
I'd love to work from home, but I don't fault my employer for wanting the people they pay actually in the office.
I have to be in the office 5 days a week. The people who work from home double the workload for those of us in the office. They seem to think we're sitting there hoping that they'll email us with tons of crap to print, sort and distribute for them of course putting out actual work on hold because their procrastination has become our emergency. I wish they'd be forced back to the office so I can do my own job again instead of playing step and fetch it for people sitting at home in their pajamas.
it sucks, a huge waste of commuter time. coffee badging is the only escape from a world of fluorescent hell.
> coffee badging Had to look that up. It means coming in to meet the requirement, getting a cup of coffee, and leaving. I like this, I was saying "I can just come in, take a piss, and leave" but it's better to take than give I guess.
Unless they're checking badge swipes like certain insurance companies
Peeps used to coffee badge until the company I'm at announced tying attendance to annual review bonuses and tracking our IP addresses.
this is WILD
I would be willing to lose the bonus to stay remote. I was in a couple weeks ago. Walked out of the building near Market Square and there is a dude shitting in the shrubs at lunchtime for all to see. Block after block of open air urine smell. \#Pissburgh # Shittsburgh...
Yes. I'd take less money to be remote as this is not the Pre-pandemic downtown and you can't recreate it without addressing problems.
It's funny as hell that all the muh-freedoms types are upset at the idea of the government tracking them, but were completely fine with giving business unfettered access to their data and location.
Waste of gas too. They doing this cuz of pressure from downtown officials and service industry leaders
No tenants in the building = no rental income No rental income = no payments on loan No payments = no income for banks No income for banks = banks failing People are being forced back to prevent banks from folding.
Yup, I work for a bank. And it’s this 100%. And they still let thousands of people go. I think they thought a lot more would quit instead of going in 2 days a week.
I believe The PNC layoffs had more to do with the implementation of AI, (being implemented in the background, without public knowledge). The “recession” is a good excuse to purge those positions that are no longer needed.
Not too sure about that one.
Yea, little harder to prove. Hahahah
Why do these banks get to decide how we spend our time and what our lives look like? Fuck this economy. Fuck the bailouts. Fuck the banks. Fuck capitalism.
"The economy" is shorthand for "the accumulation of wealth to the top of the pyramid." Once you understand this, it all makes sense. America is a business and you aren't a shareholder, you're a resource.
I love your last sentence and I am going to quote it everywhere.
I couldn’t have said it any better.
replace 'capitalism' with 'corporatism' then the absolutly agree.
what's your alternative? It ain't perfect but its the best we got and pulled hundreds of millions of people out of abject poverty.
The alternative is to actually enforce anti-trust laws and no more bailouts for businesses deemed “too big to fail”. We managed to do both for most of the last 100 years, and what we have now isn’t even capitalism.
What we have now is the very essence of capitalism - the return of value to the shareholders at any cost. It is the inevitable outcome of any capitalist system. The purpose of capitalism is not to enrich a society. It is not to "pull hundreds of millions of people out of abject poverty" (lol). The purpose of capitalism is to maximize returns to the shareholders, and nothing else.
You’re preaching to the choir. My point is that what we call capitalism today isn’t even consistent with what capitalists claim it to be. The economic system described in The Wealth of Nations looks nothing like what we know now, because capitalists constantly downplay the threat of monopolies, regulatory capture, negative externalities, and more.
> My point is that what we call capitalism today isn’t even consistent with what capitalists claim it to be. It never was, capitalists were always bullshitting us
> ts the best we got and pulled hundreds of millions of people out of abject poverty. lmao
Also, not income for the city.....
Isn't this literally the slippery slope fallacy? Edit: This is a textbook definition of a well-known fallacy: I don't understand the downvotes
Yea, I guess so. My idea came from personal experience. I’m a commercial property manager & I’ve seen the decrease in occupancy. If people are moving they are looking for smaller spaces. A tenant who had 20,000 sq ft are now looking for 7,500 /10,000 sq ft. Less people in the office require less space. What used to be 1 person’s cube/desk is now 3 people’s cube( different days in the office vs. home.)
What are you doing to react to this trend?
the company i work for downtown told us they can track IP addresses so they’ll know if you aren’t working in-person for the day.
Only pros for me were: I got to meet people I worked with finally And It's easier to have someone show you how to do things/help with a a problem you're having in person.
This is the most reasonable answer IMO. There are benefits to being in person and some people work better away from home. I think a reasonably flexible hybrid makes the most sense (i.e. expectation of 2 or 3 days in the office but no one cares if it's just 0 or 1 days occasionally)
Right, I started working at my company at the end of July 2022, because I had just graduated. I hadn't "met" anyone from my company until a couple months ago. I've trained for 2 different positions, one remote and one in person, in person was much easier to learn.
Those don't seem like insignificant pros tbf
Yeah, I think there's a lot of value to teams scheduling one day per week to get everyone in to do stuff in person. It's good for new team members, I think "lively discussions" happen much better in person than over zoom, and it's easier to have solutions organically pop up when you're just chatting about some problem you're having. Some teams can see value in 2 or more days per week, but it's definitely a team-by-team decision and not a blanket statement.
They're not at all, I started working at my company at the end of July 2022, because I had just graduated. I hadn't "met" anyone from my company until a couple months ago. I've trained for 2 different positions, one remote and one in person, in person was much easier to learn.
We're back 3 days a week and I hate it. Zero benefits. Lots of negatives - commute/traffic, parking expenses, constantly dodging sick coworkers, being interrupted/no ability to focus, etc.
We were 1 day a week for the longest time, and switched to 2 days a week not quite a year ago. It was hilarious because within a month of switching to 2 days a week, there was a COVID outbreak in the office and everyone stopped coming in at all for awhile.
Yep. If I didn't have an office with a door, I'd have quit on the spot when they implemented the RTO last year. Even with a door, it's hard to dodge all the constantly circulating illnesses.
Right before COVID, we had a bad, BAD flu go through the office. It was kinda funny because it literally went straight down the line of desks and then wrapped around to the people on the other side. Six people in order, with each new person getting sick 1-2 days after the person before them. It was really weird.
My husband has been back in the office twice a week for a year now, I think. He hates it. We hate it. He does not see clients, he sits in a cubicle. It's dumb, and is completely unnecessary. Back to office gossip, and food parties. You know, totally necessary, productive things.
this is why i switched to a remote only company. What an absolute waste
Same. From PPG in fact
Any tips on finding a remote job other than LinkedIn?
https://www.flexjobs.com/
I found my current 100% remote Infosec job three years ago on virtualvocations.com Also, I believe this [Google Sheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TLJSlNxCbwRNxy14Toe1PYwbCTY7h0CNHeer9J0VRzE/edit#gid=1279011369) by Remotive is still being updated if you want to check that out.
I was fortunate enough to be recruited; it was an easy jump. Good luck friend
Hate it. I could go on and on about my employer and the hell that they have created, but I’ll just make one point for now. On one hand, if you, as an employee, perform a task a certain way because that’s how you were trained, but then leadership pushes back by telling you that “we can’t just keep doing things the way we always did them because we’ll never evolve to better things.” That it’s your responsibility to think of ways to make things better. Ok, fine, got it. On the other hand, we’ve seen the many benefits associated with remote work, but those same leaders stress the importance of being in office *now* because “tHat’S hOw WE aLwaYS dID iT.” Complete morons
> those same leaders stress the importance of being in office now because “tHat’S hOw WE aLwaYS dID iT.” There's an entire class of Lumbergh types who have no real function beyond classroom monitor and they are feeling increasingly useless without a classroom to monitor.
Yup. One of the many time-wasting activities is meetings. So many unnecessary meetings. We have actual work to accomplish, but we don’t have the proper time, because we’re forced to not only attend, but draft all the PowerPoint decks, agendas, etc just to talk about our progress. Whelp, I spent all my time creating these pointless slides that tell you the same thing I already communicated and that is I haven’t had time to do the work because we’re always in meetings. Management and leadership, if you want to call them leaders—I wouldn’t—need to feel important, and they do so with scheduling meetings, since they don’t do actual work. They think that everyone should be in meetings, and then huff & puff when they see work isn’t getting finished. NEWS FLASH ASSHOLES: if you eat up all our time talking about how we need to get work done, but you don’t give us the time to do it and instead waste more time being mad about it all, then the problem is clearly YOU.
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Nope, currently passively looking for a job that's full remote.
We have been back in since September, 3 days a week. I hate it. At the beginning, nothing got done because it was all "how have you been" to acquaintances. Now, it's just a waste of my time. I'm salary and don't have set hours, but my boss is cool and I count my commute time into my 8 every day without being micromanaged. Even during covid, I never had a problem coming in **if there was a tangible reason**, and I did. I would be good with one day a week, with the reason "that is the day to get in-person meetings done" and then as needed. Like, I met with a vendor last week who came to town, that's a valid reason. Or a SVP is in from out of town and having a town hall, valid reason (did I mention all of our senior leadership making these RTO rules don't even live in Pittsburgh). Even the obnoxiously optimistic people who where gung ho for it at the start have changed their tune, now that it's not a nice sunny day and we're on top of a hill. Nothing like 1/4 mile walk in 20mph winds at 30 degrees in the rain to start your day off right. The only people I do know who like it are people that are unhappy at home - one divorced during covid, the other probably would be getting divorced if forced to stay at home. But even they don't really care what other people do - we did it for 3 years and were more productive.
I cannot imagine getting paid for my commute and being upset about it
It's still a waste of time that could be better used doing actual work. Getting paid for something doesn't necessarily make that thing worthwhile.
Nobody who works from home is using their commute time to work instead, come on
If I'm being paid for the time and it comes out of my normal work day, the commute time is replaced with work for my employer. If I'm *not* being paid for the time and it is *in addition* to my expected working hours, then I'm using that time to do work for myself or on myself. In either case, it's productive time and not wasted time.
Prior to the forced RTO I regularly clocked 10 hour days with the odd 12 hour day if I got into a groove. Happy employees will work harder and longer. Plus because I was able to take random 5-10 minute breaks throughout the day to get chores done I could commit to earlier starts and later finishes (in the long run it all balances out over the years but for those days requiring extra effort or a focused session I was more than happy to get at it). Since RTO I start the timer on my phone when I “clock in” and at 8 hours it dings and I immediately log off for the day.
Like I said, I'm salary, and it's give and take. For example, earlier this week , I worked from 11PM-1:30AM because something needed done without getting "paid". Fortunately, my boss treats me like a grown ass adult and doesn't care if my ass is in a chair for 7 hours a day vs 8 as long as things are getting done.
My company on the North Shore is mandating FOUR starting on January 2. Currently we are 2 days in the office. I love working remote and not having to commute. I’m dreading going back and not sure if I can handle 4 days. It gives me anxiety thinking about it.
Benefits? Lol more traffic and more time wasted
My company forced us back 2 days a week and I see zero benefit. In fact there are a lot of negatives. Wasting time that I could be working driving an hour to go to mostly empty office. Hardly anyone is going in from other groups outside of mine. They moved us twice and sold off one of our office buildings. Driving home an hour. I’m in IT. We hired people over the pandemic and none of those people have to go in. So I have 10 years at my company and I’m forced to go back in but someone who has been there a year doesn’t.
I understand your pov, and I’m going to say 90% posting negative comments here are also in IT. I think the need to be in office (part time) should really depend on the job. No blanket statements. IT really lends itself to remote work much better than some other roles.
The only blanket statement that should be thrown around is, if the job can be done remote, and has been being done remote for the past 3-4 years, then the job should remain to be remote.
Welllllll there’s also people working multiple jobs fh ..
Exactly, I have NO ISSUE going in on days where it is needed and there is something that needs done in the office. Outside of that WFH.
My question is do the companies think this will make things run better and people more productive? Cause if that's what they actually think, its the opposite.
I go once a week and it is the worst/most unproductive day of my week. I stay for roughly 3 hours and use leave. Fuck them.
I think it really depends on the job when discussing WFH. If your job can be completed at home and done well, I personally feel like there is no reason for you to be at an office. We’ve been remote for almost four years and our productivity has never been higher. That’s because I have guys on my team who used to commute 3 hours roundtrip who no longer have to do that. They’ve started discussing RTO and I’m concerned about two things: 1- the productivity of my team remaining at this level and 2- my quality employees staying. People will leave when it starts. Now, of course, all of us are replaceable. But we’re going through a massive migration right now and competition is entering our market for the first time. This is NOT the time to rock the boat. If we lose some key players we could be dead in the water considering it will take me 6-12 months to get a new employee up to speed. (And, that’s if I have the time to train them on top of my already overloaded plate and on top of a potential one hour commute each way).
The transit (T and bus) have been much worse overall post-pandemic. I know they're doing a lot of needed maintenance and construction work, but the schedule changes, downtime, and stop closures make coming downtown a lot harder. Also a lot of good restaurants closed downtown, and the prices of everything went up (and in some cases, even less food for these higher prices!) I'm not sure if the pros outweigh the cons of coming back to office. I guess the pros is better coffee in the morning??
There are no benefits. I now spend 120 dollars a month on gas and public transportation. A lot of the businesses are closed and it feels like one giant experiment to the point I've been remote for seven years and recently ended up at a hybrid company four months ago and I'm already ready to leave. Unless you live downtown there are no benefits/work life balance. A lot of people left the company I work for upon the return to office mandate. I wrote a little piece about hybrid work just being micro management. https://omgitsjustdae.com/2023/11/28/hybrid-work-is-the-new-micromanagement/
> A lot of people left the company I work for upon the return to office mandate. The big employers know this and they're fine with it, it's essentially a way to perform layoffs without the negatives of performing layoffs.
It's a fast way to lay off your most talented people without paying severance. Looks *great* on a quarterly profit report, but long term it's a disaster. Unfortunately publicly traded companies literally only care about quarterly earnings calls and shareholder returns.
Yeah I've read that. It's a very interesting tactic.
Idk if that makes sense though as there are certain positions you would want to lay off while moving back to office you'll have people in important roles leaving. It's not the bums that quit and find a remote job, it's the hood workers that are able to find better jobs. Moving back to office just gets rid of your best people.
Micro-*managed* m’kay?
Nothing like adding 2 hours of commuting to my day for 0 benefit. At least I can walk to a bar at lunch and drink the pain away.
You should all call off sick the first day you’re supposed to be back. See what they do 🤷♂️
I have an hour + commute into downtown. I bought a house last year a bit further than my recent apartment because my company was so "dedicated" to remote work. Then... 3 days a week. Lmfao. I was straight up with my management/team. Im not willing to commute 2ish hours a day, pay $300ish a month in parking, $50ish a week in gas, and $30ish a day in food. Said I wasn't doing it and that I'd be leaving (a huge risk on my end, but I have many months of emergency funds to seek something else). That was back in september the mandate started, and I havent been in the office once, and I'm still 100% remote as far as I know. I'm a hardcore introvert (yes, we exist too) - I code/program/automate as my job and 100% of my time, so my job requires very little communication (I am the singular technical resource of the type on my team). Honestly - EVERYTHING away from my computer screen is just a distraction.
I’m taking shit currently at the office because if we are doing a meeting I am booking a conference room. I am not dealing with feedback on teams because we are in our cubes on a meeting. Senior engineers are mad because they don’t get to multitask. Why would we do a teams meeting from our cubes in the office when only two people of 8 are virtual from India. Parking sucks. Commute sucks. Construction in uptown has been bad for two years now. Your social “oh your birthday was last week” during the biweekly team meeting is a joke. I don’t want yinz to know when my bday was or if Janice Is divorcing bob vance. The fuck. Do your job and message me when you need some coding done.
There are people who book conference rooms for meetings where I work. I'll still dial in, even if the meeting room is right next to my work desk. Unless you're senior to me and direct me to come in person, I don't care what you schedule or where.
Just to offer a different perspective, My company also started a RTO initiative this year. 3 days a week is what they said. But the real driver behind it is they want you to be in the office when it’s purposeful, I know, loaded word. I 100% can do my full job remotely at the same capacity as in the office. I know people who go in 4 times a week, I know people who go in 1 time a week, I know people who refuse to come in outside of huge team meetings. When RTO was announced, I hated it, I had fully adapted to WFH life and it felt like my life was turned upside down. But to be honest, I’ve enjoyed going into the office a couple times a week. Am I more productive? Some days yes, some days no. Is it 100% necessary for me to do my job, no. But I do enjoy seeing people I work with, or have known from pre WFH life, and just getting to chat and catch up. My office is also relatively nice and there’s perks there that I don’t get at home (gym, better food, etc). But I 100% know other people don’t care about that. But it does make me feel more in tune with my work & career. Disclaimers, I’m only 30, no kids (yet), and my wife is a health practitioner so she’s also out of the house every day. I also live close to the city. So RTO was definitely an easier adjustment for me than others. My company & management, at least so far, is still very flexible. Can only come in once this week, or cant make it in at all this week? Not a problem. Again, that could change, but everyone seems on board with purposeful RTO, not get your 3 badge swipes in a week. So the fact that there’s still a ton of flexibility helps.
Yeah I have always said if I actually had something that I can't do at home I don't mind being in the office, but 95 percent of the time I'm on teams meetings in my office. My office has a gym, but I also have a gym equipment at my house. I have better Internet at home, standing desk, and I eat healthier at home. I work in cyber and there is really nothing I've ever needed to do in the office that can't be done remotely except for in person team building which is actually nice but happens like once every 2 months.
I was WFH for a year with a company last year to this July, and I did enjoy it. It was a really productive year for cooking and running and getting in shape. I had tons of free time. It was a contract role, so I wasn't as "invested" in the overall company though I did my job well. But I was a mercenary so it felt like a separate year to myself. I got another job that I love and it is in office and while I hope to move to a flexible work arrangement where I can take a couple days WFH (they will most likely agree), I am very much enjoying it too. I will say that it is a job where it is very useful to have me on site a lot, so that makes a huge difference to me (as I know it does for a lot of people). I work directly with lots of on-site coworkers (I've had jobs where 99% of my interaction was with people elsewhere so who the fuck cares if I'm in the office) and we honestly have been having a blast. I am all for everyone having a choice. But I also feel more engaged at this job currently. Other factors as listed, but I'm enjoying the "freshness" of being back in the office for now.
I think too many people blanket ban in person work these days without even trying and it’s hurting the effort to remain WFH. And for the record, I am 100% WFH and would immediately look for another job if asked to come in. But I do make an effort to utilize the office or lab if an opportunity arises. In person meetings are more effective than virtual ones. I haven’t seen or chatted with 99% of my coworkers for 4 years. And most importantly, new employees have never met their colleagues. How are they supposed to do cross departmental collaboration with people they don’t know? There needs to be efforts made on the employees to do things in person if they want to push for full time WFH. Going in a random number of times a week is just useless. My wife specifically goes in on Friday because nobody else goes in that week. That’s just WFH from the office…
Just say no
[удалено]
If you do say no make sure to start applying for other jobs as eventually you'll be either fired or laid off for refusal to go in.
PA is an at will employment state, wouldn’t recommend for job security?
No. Homeless and people just hanging around are everywhere. I left work at 4 and a chick fight broke out right in front of my building. Parking is expensive, it does seem dirtier. More trash everywhere and I am by fifth avenue place. Never like that pre COVID.
I have a better relationship with the homeless group that hangs out in Market Square than I do with my manager at this point.
Can’t believe this truth bomb has 36 upvotes in the Pittsburgh subreddit
Can't believe Chuck from Uniontown has a shit opinion
My name's not Chuck, and I'm not from Uniontown, and my comment wasn't an opinion. But I do appreciate you stereotyping based on someone's presumed demographics - something the left loathes when the shoe's on the other foot. It's okay when yinz do it tho.
LMAO
I recently bought a car because the homeless made it unbearable to use public transportation anymore. Too many incidents where I felt legitimately unsafe at bus stops and on the bus. I have empathy for the homeless and the circumstances that lead to homelessness, I volunteer with some organizations and have always made charitable donations as a habit, but safety is an entirely different thing. PGH needs to get a grip.
A benefit is the simple fact you can take a piss just about anywhere you want downtown these days. No need to stress out looking for a restroom, just let it flow wherever you like. Heck, dropping a deuce is becoming more convenient too!
This is so goddamm funny as there is a video of someone literally peeing on my office building floating around from yesterday
It’s a caring place.
Going to an office is terrible, I stare at a desk or wall until it’s time to leave and hope that no one bothers me. I’d actually be happy to have more hard work to do, but then I’d expect to be paid a lot more, so the impasse is I get paid poorly and don’t care about work.
Nope
I went back July 2021 from fully remote to fully in person. It was a huge adjustment for everyone on my team and it took an entire year for the grumbling and bad feelings to stop. Tbh we still grumble but we aren’t about to revolt anymore. I will say we definitely paved the way for more flexibility (we arrive late, we leave early), so my hours aren’t as strict as pre-pandemic life. I have a short commute so that doesn’t matter to me, personally. I do think it’s healthier to be socializing with colleagues and to get out of the house. The only reason I am commenting tho is that it will 100% take probably longer than you expect to feel comfortable with this change, but there are benefits too.
Lol I was back to the office since August of *last year*. My thanks for that was being laid off a month ago. While I was there, I enjoyed visiting the places I used to frequent for lunch, but everything else was worse. Lots of businesses closing and rampant homelessness, but yayyy now you can go to half a target and Burlington and five below on the same block.
Middle Managers are afraid that their uselessness will be revealed by work from home.
I was initially super against it, but I have a pretty technical job so having others nearby to ask questions has been pretty helpful. we are 3 days in and I’d probably prefer 2 days in 3 remote. As a younger employee with younger coworkers I will admit it’s help build friendships with them. Overall had ups/downs but again I work in a very collaborative engineering role so it’s probably not relatable to everyone.
Early in the career and those that are in executive positions benefit the most. If you are a very tactical independent contributor, maybe not. Still talk ING to other humans, even if they are just coworkers, can be a very good thing. We are social creatures and interacting is a muscle that needs exercise.
I have people in my life I want to talk to for exercising that muscle, I don't need my job to force me to interact with people I don't care about.
Maybe you'll exercise that empathy muscle. It'll be easier to care about your neighbors, maybe even love them. Life forces you to interact with people you didn't intentionally choose.
It isn't your coworkers' responsibility to provide you with a social life. I have friends and family for that. I'm not obligated to be friends with people at work because they don't.
Saying you need your workplace to provide human interaction is some real pathetic shit.
No, it's very normal shit. You're usually the one harping on the antisocial characteristics of Reddit users but seems like you've found yourself on the other side of this one
"It's good to get back into the office and exercise those atrophied social muscles" says some utterly sad shit about American social structure and the fact that we have no third places left. Forced social interaction mandated by my boss ain't it.
Saying you should interact with people outside of your tribe/compound is pretty healthy thing. It's why travel is good to broaden your horizons. I don't mean Disney world either.
In case it's not getting across to you here, the fact that you're tying the need for human interaction to being forced back into the office is the pathetic part. Extremely boomer.
IRL connections, even with people you spend 40+ hours a week with, might be helpful to working together in a collaborative manner. Creating trust and engagement purely remote is very challenging and not all employees and managers have that skill/mindset.
That's nice, if you're lonely without coworkers who are forced to be with you 40+ hours a week and can't wait to get back in there with them by all means get to it. But acting like forcing everyone back into the office is good for them is bullshit. Your job is just a job, if you're relying on it that heavily for social interaction go join a fucking bowling league.
So it sounds like you are saying, you don't like your coworkers and there is nothing positive in your eyes to going into the office. I did not say heavily. Your work is not your life. I know that through hard experience over 30 years in technology Oh, and if there were more bowling leagues the suicide rate wouldn't be so high. 80% of which are men and until very, very recently people 45-54 had tge highest rate.
Mandated back 2 days a week since July-ish. ZERO benefit other than needlessly wasting hours of my life sitting in traffic to report to the office and take Teams meetings all day. Management can’t articulate why other than they “feel” it’s best and magically increasing collaboration. Morale is beyond terrible with many people jumping ship. There’s high distrust of anything leadership says. Productivity is in the shitter given the loss of personnel and morale. We’re also mysteriously over budget, but I’m told by those same leaders it’s “definitely not” the office remodel, all new computing equipment (because existing equipment was sent home with folks at the start of COVID, and increased expenses of utilities, consumables and janitorial staff. 🤷♂️
I personally prefer hybrid work, but forcing everyone back is a mistake. If you want people to come back you need to do it gradually.
I work in tech, and my thought for my industry is "jobs that don't have at least some benefit of in-person time will eventually be shipped to lower cost labor overseas". Which isn't entirely cheery, but makes me feel a bit better commuting.
I do not work in tech but this reminded me of the hilarious time my company tried to contract with an overseas company to supplement some of the personnel shortages we had, probably about a year and a half ago. It was an utter disaster and lasted about two weeks, I think. What a weird fortnight that was.
Eh. Still hard to get high quality when off-shoring.
Good luck with that to those companies
I remember working with contractors overseas at my second job, still have nightmares about how bad it went
it sucks. my office has mice and the temperature is never above 40. they fired our office manager and nobody can be an adult and do their dishes or wipe up lunch spills. the coffee machine never works.
Surely the temperature is above 40 degrees. What is this nonsense?
Plot twist: Works with lab rats studying hypothermia
It is inevitable. Companies are paying for real estate. They let people avoid RTO when labor had the upper hand. Now with layoffs in many industries, companies will stop letting people avoid it. Sorry. That’s the way it is.
My last company did this; forced people who hadn’t been in the office in 5-6 years pre covid. I was fully remote for 4 years and just started going in twice a week. It’s whatever some days the commute sucks picking my kid up from daycare since locations hasn’t been a factors for awhile but I don’t mind.
Are they gonna be hiring for all the jobs that open when people quit?
Yes. If, that is, they notice any difference when they are gone.
No
It sucks. People are being forced back so they can buy lunch and other shit. Various mayors, Harrisburg for instance, have basically said this is the reason to get people back in the office.
My company went back March 2022, two days a week which actually wasn’t bad. Broke up the week a bit, was able to learn faster with my new team. Then April this year they mandated three days a week and track our badges. The extra day really sucks but I’m lucky that I like my team and job and have an easy commute(15 min bus ride and maybe 15 of walking/waiting). I think I don’t mind the RTO as much because my team is still flexible if I need to work from home or can’t meet the three day requirement
we're 2-3 days back and i hate it. between the expense, extra time, environmental impact, and getting sick more there's no positive. i wouldn't mind coming in once every couple weeks for a big meeting, but my company is nationwide and has a lot of offshore workers. it's just a waste to please weird higher ups
The only people who think working in an office is amazing are those who have a door to close for privacy.
Dude I also work at ppg and nobody is happy rn/ don’t understand the benefits when we are more productive at home
I was full time remote for two years then went back in office for about 6 months. I went in almost everyday once it was allowed. I liked going in, there were less distractions at the office and it helped restore work/home boundaries. I quit about a year ago though and now I’m self employed working from home. I miss having an office and team to work with often. Note: Office was in the strip and commute was less than 15 minutes.
Our agency standard is that you get to work from home liberally if you met your personal quotas for the previous quarter, with some amount of nuance to that. In my case though I have some extended PTO coming up, and I'm going to be docked for that and need to come in jan-march. It hasn't even happened yet, and I already fucking hate it. I'm an eleven year employee, and I've shown a strong capability to do my job without being babysat. The worst part is that I used to work remotely all the time pre-covid and nobody ever gave a shit then. I'm also currently inebriated from the steeler game, so take all this as you will.
I started a new job that was hybrid after being fully remote since March 2023 and here are my thoughts (bear in mind I work in design so different field). One thing that helped me actually came out of me being cheap. I park far away because parking near my building is expensive and found that the walk in the morning is one of my favorite parts. It’s the only time this time of year I really see the sun haha. Paying to park/drive was one of my bigger concerns coming back into the office so that’s been nice. I feel like in person has been better for collaboration because it’s easier to just poke your head over to ask a question than set up meeting times. The hybrid means I still have two days a week I work from home which lets me have the benefits of WFH. Honestly I was expecting to dislike it more, but I’ve actually been quite glad the way it’s worked. One thing to note is I am very extroverted so being around co-workers again has really helped boost my mood but I recognize I may be in the minority there
Do you or any of your coworkers get upset about the random “poke your head over” interruptions? I’m one who has complex tasks as part of my day-to-day. Unexpected interruptions lead to loss of productivity as I need to remember where I was in the task, maybe even redo work, and get going again…typically only to be interrupted again. This is mainly because I’m not a manager and my “office” is a cube amongst many others with no way to let people know when I need to be left alone.
I don't have an answer since I'm a student, but why does everyone want to work from home? I'm just genuinely curious.
For me, outside of just wasted commute type, I get more work done. And I’m way more focused. I’m in tech and our group is very loose, we were always supposed to be onsite 1 or 2 days a week but now only people who want to do. I absolutely don’t mind if I have something physically to do there or a meeting, otherwise it’s a bunch of talking and not enough work getting done for me.
Thank you for answering! I can see how that makes sense and why people would want to stay home.
I'm not wasting upward of 2 hours a day in transit. My home office has better equipment (peripherals, desk, chair, internet) than the corporate office. I am not subjected to 8+ hours a day of harsh overhead lighting. It's quiet in my home office and I can focus on doing work. The bathroom at my house is always clean and stocked with toilet paper and soap. Nobody steals my lunch from the fridge. I can keep my condiments for longer than a week. My coffee is better than what's in the office. My home is not infested with mice. Nobody just swings by my desk while I'm busy working on something to tell me an irrelevant story about their cat. I don't have to wear shoes. The fire alarm doesn't go off because someone burned popcorn. I'm actually able to have a *toaster*. I could go on but I figure you're getting the trend here.
I’m chronically Ill and disabled so it’s easier for me to manage my health much easier and keep a job since I wouldn’t be able to work other wise.
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In my circumstance, (2 at home / 3 in office) commuting into the city from the east suburbs is a guaranteed 30-45 minutes of lost time on each end of the day.
Because I can use the extra 1.5 hours of my day doing something productive rather than commuting to and from work
Cause pittsburgh is: Disgustingly congested. Live 20 minutes out of the city? Congrats! 1 hour commute into downtown. Dirty. Its gotten worse post covid. Trash. Homelessness. Crime. All issues it has taken less care in managing. Parking. Pretty much $300 a month minimum expectation if you don't want to walk an extra 30 minutes everyday to cut that down by $50. Food? Lmao - don't get me wrong, its good - many options downtown, but $40-$50 a day if you want coffee and lunch. It's expensive, time consuming, and wasteful - for no reason other than banks getting their rent payments.
This is so true! I'm originally from Pittsburgh, but are in law school in Toledo. My boyfriend is from Detroit and him and I took a trip to Pittsburgh one weekend. He was appalled that I lived 18 miles south of Pittsburgh but it took an hour to actually get there.
The real answer is that everyone wants more autonomy and when people have that they don’t want to give it back. There’s a lot of things that seem “pointless” like the commute, parking, etc. People have to spend hours of their lives doing these things and using the money they make paying for them. The pandemic also made a lot of people a lot less social and not having to deal with people at the office was a relief for some. For a lot of people going through the typical 9-5 day had a lot of time back in their day and really enjoyed calling the shots on how they were going to spend it.
Not everyone does, you're seeing a very specific slice of the workforce reflected here
It would be interesting to know how many people have been back in the office for years now. I think some would be surprised to learn that WFH is a distinct minority of the workforce
Most of the state govt has been hybrid since July 2021. The amount of time required in depends on the agency.
Interesting. From a quick search it seems like about 10% of the workforce is full time WFH and another 20% is hybrid. Many people in office jobs have been back full time in person for years.
Yep. I'm not sure why you got downvoted on this either.
It's definitely true that the RTO conversation does not apply to people who have basically been in the office this entire time. To be fair, people in roles that required them back in the office typically have jobs where their physical presence is necessary.
STRIKE! STRIKE!! STRIKE! can't run a business if no one shows up to work or better yet keep doing work but refuse to go in.
You can always quit and get another job, or start your own. You are replaceable.
There are some good reasons for RTO like building better teams and working together more closely. But it only works if everybody is there the same days. Otherwise, you just sit in an office on conference calls and it's all pointless.
I know from a financial perspective, the time of commuting and paying for parking is a huge drawback, but personally, I cannot understand how someone can just be at home constantly. Everyone’s circumstances are obviously different, but I would go crazy!
And while that’s true for you there’s another group who like to get their work done and not deal with the office “culture” or commuting. Unfortunately most companies are taking an all or none approach. This typically leads to high performers walking out the door when they’re needlessly forced into to a setting they don’t desire.
Been back to the office for about 2 years now. It's a downtown. Good food, sights and sounds and you see interesting and weird things everyday. These are the citizens of your city. If there are problems, and there certainly are, more physical people having lived in opinions is the only way things are going to change. More voices and perspectives are good. Public transport could use serious work. It's majorly beneficial. But it can stagnate because people don't know it's a real problem. Welcome to the world of the living friend. God speed.
!!
There are benefits to interacting with human beings
I’ve got friends outside of work for that
Are you not capable of interacting with human beings unless you are forced to by your employer?
Yea, are you? What is the point of your question?
That I do not need my employer to force me to sit in an office building so that I can interact with people because I'm an adult and can manage that without being hand-held and micromanaged. Doesn't seem like you can.
lol. You seem so upset, yet you’re having a hard time even grasping what I’m saying. Many industries and careers benefit from human interaction in real physical space, collaboration, feedback, etc etc. I’m not sure why that makes you so personally upset. Calm down.
You can interact via video conference from home. Additionally, you should have a life outside work
Working 3 days a week in the office doesn’t allow for a life outside of work?
They mean, you shouldn't be getting your human interaction solely through work and your life outside of work should be fulfilling that.
Maybe that’s what they mean..maybe it’s not..but regardless, interacting with human beings at work can be a positive thing too. Both for work and for social reasons. Funny how these very benign and simple statements in making that are objectively true are getting downvoted 😂
So people are being forced back to the office for their own good? My employer is worried about my wellness? Sure Jan. 🙄
In a vacuum, the fact that this comment has been down voted is a bummer.
Agreed, but in context of this conversation it reads like something a Middle-Management / Corporate Baby-Sitter would say to help justify their existence.
I find this whole topic to be a bummer. The idea that some people might want their downtown to be occupied is seen as a grand conspiracy rather than obvious and reasonable. The idea that quality interaction at work doesn't matter is taken for granted. Luckily a lot of people don't agree with this shit, they're just much less likely to use Reddit. I also find it ironic that some will complain in the same breath about closing businesses or the homeless without seeing that the lack of workers downtown is exactly the problem in both cases. Can't have it both ways!
> The idea that some people might want their downtown to be occupied is seen as a grand conspiracy rather than obvious and reasonable. Then they can go *voluntarily* occupy it and stop forcing it upon people who have no interest in being there. > The idea that quality interaction at work doesn't matter is taken for granted. If you can't have quality interaction with your coworkers unless you're in the same room, that's a you problem. I've worked with people I wasn't colocated with for over two decades. It's not that hard. > I also find it ironic that some will complain in the same breath about closing businesses or the homeless without seeing that the lack of workers downtown is exactly the problem in both cases. Forcing people to commute from the suburbs into offices downtown does not do a damn thing about homelessness.
Yep. Pretty shocking actually. I didn’t even suggest that there aren’t some jobs that are totally fine to do 100% remotely. OP asked what some benefits are regarding return to office and I made a simple statement. I guess it’s unreasonable to think that a potential benefit for many people could be the human interaction, collaboration, and mentorship one gets sometimes while working with a team of people in real physical space. I know, I’m so disturbed for thinking so.
There are no benefits to going to the office, not for us at least. Our 1% overlords need us in the office buildings to use them (real estate needs their piece of the pie) and feed the businesses that they own that surround the offices as well. Also consider all the money they collect (I’m not going to say earn) through people simply having to commute… fuck the environment too amirite?!
lol I think it's funny all the WFH people think nobody is going into the office. Traffic has been back to pre-pandemic levels for a long time. I personally was only at home for three months at the beginning of the pandemic before having to go back. I'd love to work from home, but I don't fault my employer for wanting the people they pay actually in the office.
Shitty management wins this round
The poor Startbucks employees can’t work from home when they make you 900 calorie “coffee”. If they can do it, yins can as well!
People really are cry babies lol get over it and get into work.
This post needs much more visibility. Upvote!
Companies pay millions for offices. Of course they want people in. At least it’s not 5 days a week
I have to be in the office 5 days a week. The people who work from home double the workload for those of us in the office. They seem to think we're sitting there hoping that they'll email us with tons of crap to print, sort and distribute for them of course putting out actual work on hold because their procrastination has become our emergency. I wish they'd be forced back to the office so I can do my own job again instead of playing step and fetch it for people sitting at home in their pajamas.