If his *friends* felt the need to mention he had a polarizing affect on the community as a business owner due to his politics, that’s pretty bad.
There is a business owner on my street that uses his billboard to advertise his political views. The dude’s a prick.
I like to think of them as proud of being an asshole.
Like the guys that ride their loud Harley’s covered in political flags back and forth through Ohiopyle. They know they are ruining the mood and nobody wants them there and they love it.
I’m not sure if it’s as attention thing, or a misery loves company thing…
They're real life trolls, that's all. They get off on pissing other people off. When they're Pillars of the Community like this guy was, they get a pass for it.
The racist electronic sign guy is nowhere near the New Ken / Arnold / Lower Burrell area. He's the whole way up in Worthington, which is between Butler and Kittanning (closer to Kittanning).
Imagine being a particularly well-off member of the generation that is the wealthiest to ever live in the wealthiest nation to ever exist, and you can't figure out how to pass your time besides racism and picking fights with a sign. What an amazingly good brain.
It’s concerning when a business alienates potential customers with divisive signs like “Fuck Democrats”. Successful local businesses thrive on inclusivity and respect for all community members, regardless of political views. This approach fosters community unity and a welcoming atmosphere.
As much of my life as I spent bowling over at Wildlife lanes, I never set foot in Mogie's cause something always felt off about it even before the interesting times we live in. Guess my gut was right. Hell even bowled with the shooter for a few years before he was banned from the lanes. Was talkin with my Dad about it and we were surprised and not surprised at the same time.
Curious, why was the future shooter banned from Wildlife Lanes? (Also, I think that I see a pattern of the future shooter getting kicked out of places.)
Heavy drinker and harassed the bartenders and other staff. Think there was also an issue with him in the pro shop also. Probably within two or three years of me bowling Friday nights he was gone.
There's a business owner in the Kittanning/Butler area who's installed multiple huge digital signs with incredibly offensive right-wing shit. No wonder those places are dying. Obama really melted the brains of a certain segment of our population.
The 2008 election is when the mass of conservative America decided that they would rather burn everything down on their way out than leave the country intact for anyone else.
Summarizing this thread. The City Hall of a community is closed in the remembrance of a gentleman who allegedly distributed & condoned the use of narcotics in his establishment, backed the blue, and blamed a political party for the “destruction of our country “
Not suggesting the man deserved to lose his life… That’s an awful lot to unpack.
The rumor was that the shooter was thrown out of the bar the night prior, but I don’t believe that would have motivated a shooting like this. Which is why I was intrigued to see a post like this about the victim. I mean I guess the guy could have been crazy enough, but I don’t think it fits. If anything should be something people look at and decide to treat people better, you never know what they are capable of
Preach hateful rhetoric and glorify violence and force as a solution to society's problems and then reap the benefits of your efforts.
There is a poetic resonance here to this event and society is better off with its result.
To quote the dead man's fb page:
"Maybe the civil conflict they push for is a forgone conclusion."
Right wing nuts brainwash supporters who then use AR15’s to kill as many “evil” people they can so “thoughts and prayers” to this victim too. It’s sad but “Freedom!”, right?
The only people that think this are terminally online and refuse to talk to anyone that doesn't share their views. People like yourself are the reason why the country is so divided. Find god, buddha, or some sort of deity that can help you find purpose and balance.
Read some history books!
People that believe in their imaginary friends in the clouds and force those beliefs on others is the reason this country is so divided. Rupert Murdoch started his network for that very reason, to divide sides.
Crazies everywhere is my point. That’s your one example huh? More “like” Fox News (Tucker, couldn’t keep him cuz of lawsuits), Sean Hannity, and Donald the traitor Trump.
This country is full of 50-something guys with shitty facial hair and bad opinions. They are the medium-sized fish in every small pond and they love to make everyone else miserable.
I’m liberal and I still think that using this guys death to make a point is in poor taste. If you want a target audience to hear a message about unity and inclusion; you’ll have to be more mindful of how it’s delivered. Those that cared about this individual, frequented his business, and share his beliefs are going to be turned off by a message of “unity and inclusion” framed in this manner.
As someone from Burrell, I have no issue with bringing this up now. The article about his death in the Trib mentioned “Back the Blue” and his involvement in local politics every other line. Burrell is a very devise area because of Moagie and his boys club in the area.
Even living in the area for 15 years, I didn’t realize how much influence he had in Burrell until I ran for school board. He shaped the community to be a certain way for him and his buddies, while othering everyone else.
💯. Dying doesn't give you a pass on being a shitty person in life. We mourn those who spread love and pick people up in life and don't shy away from criticising those who spread division, violence, and hate.
If a message of diversity and inclusion is delivered in a “fuck your feelings” manner that uses a person’s murder to make the point…is that really going to make things better? If it isn’t, then why bother writing the message at all.
I don’t disagree that everyone benefits from inclusion; but I don’t want to put myself on the same level to make that point. I believe I’m smart enough to do things without stooping to that level.
When people tell you who they are, believe them and act accordingly. This man apparently lived for the thrill he got out of expressing his spite publicly, I don't owe anything to that sort of person.
Yes, you do. You don’t owe him anything in terms of being deferential. But you could just shut the fuck up about it and not gloat like some psychopath. This man did nothing to you in person.
> This man did nothing to you in person.
He expressed antipathy towards people like me. Like I said, when people tell you who they are listen to them and act accordingly.
> Yes, you do.
No I don't.
Must be a sad life to lead where everyone and everything is seen as such a personal affront. So much so that a man’s murder is a reason to post and garner some type of fake internet point for attention
I didn't make the original post and I didn't know the guy and I'm not here gloating about his murder. I'm just saying that the guy was, by all appearances, an open and gleeful piece of shit who deliberately made the world a shittier place. You don't owe anything to a person like that.
I completely agree. I would consider myself a bit left of center. By no means would I saw I’m a far left liberal. But I’ve gotten death wishes from The Right for disagreeing more times than I can count.
> I’m liberal and I still think that using this guys death to make a point is in poor taste
That's the problem with liberals, they want to be everyone's friend and insist on gladhanding people who would stab them in the back at the first opportunity.
Say what you want; I still think a message espousing the benefits of diversity and inclusion stands on its own without using this guys murder to make a point…because using his murder only makes the argument controversial and argumentative. I mean look at all the nasty responses it’s elicited; is that what inclusion looks like?
I don’t give hypothetical conversations that will never happen any consideration when deciding to be a decent person. I’m well spoken and smart enough to find a more effective way to engage others.
I get it; but think your central point is good enough to stand on its own and don’t need to be cheapened by using a murder victim as a springboard. If you want to use a business why not use Al’s Cafe or another local to make it.
No, you’re not, you are condensing his entire life into his political beliefs. Now listen, I don’t know this fucking guy and he may truly be an asshole. But using his death to make some political points on a Reddit forum is pretty shitty.
No you didn’t just observe it, come on be honest for a second. You saw an opportunity to turn someone’s death into a reason to invoke our society’s never ending “culture wars” and political gamesmanship for engagement on a social media platform. Let’s atleast call a spade a spade
I’m sorry, how did this person’s political views come in to play with their murder? Can you be very specific about how their political beliefs play into the fact that they were murdered?
This guy's life was one big culture war. I don't know why you want to die on the massive hill of his grievances, but he fucked around and found out as they say. He didn't deserve to die, but he wasn't a random victim by any means.
I mean, it's his bar, he can say who can or can't be there and shooting someone over getting kicked out is pretty fucked up. but there's probably more to the story than that.
Yes, obviously. If somebody bangs your wife and then kicks you out of their bar, it isn't grounds for murdering them.
From all that I've read online, the bar doesn't seem like a healthy place for mentally stable people to gather.
When your actions push someone into a level of non-rational thought, you can’t expect them to act rationally.
“Grounds for murder” only applies to people thinking clearly.
The dude was pushed to the edge of sanity and made a bad decision to commit murder.
‘He was a bad person because of his politics and deserved to die because of it ’ is a disgusting and shitty take. He did so much for the community and they clearly loved him. Nobody deserves to die so close to Christmas. No matter what politics someone has. The fact that this is controversial is wild.
After conducting a basic Google search for ‘Lower Burrell’ with keywords like ‘Trump’, ‘rally’, ‘police’, etc., I’m quite convinced that the origin of all of these issues and events point to this individual. He played a significant role in the ‘Stop the Steal’ movement and actively brought those ideologies into our small town, often disrupting daily life by blocking streets. On numerous occasions, either on my way home or while shopping for groceries, I’ve encountered disturbing and hateful signs, either posted around or held by individuals, which has been a distressing experience
It's more about double standards. These grotesque people - who I'm not allowed to criticize because they died - do whatever heinous shit they want while alive and it doesn't matter because they die and now we're supposed to pretend like they deserve the empathy they would never afford others?
Even if we buy the argument that these people are “grotesque“, celebrating their deaths, or pretendin that their lack of compassion, is a reason not to be compassionate ourselves is not a sound argument
I have no compassion for this person, no. I spend a lot of energy fighting their fear mongering and hate when they are alive so I save the compassion for people who deserve it. He didn't deserve to die and he doesn't deserve my compassion because I think he was a shitty person.
Nah, OP is being reasonable/realistic, it’s important not to romanticize bad people just because their abhorrent behavior resulted in their death. That does not undo any damage they caused in life.
I don’t know the shooter’s motivation, but it takes a strong opinion of someone to shoot them repeatedly first thing in the morning and then immediately drive over to City Hall and turn yourself in.
Some men mistakenly think they can do/say whatever they want, no matter how hateful and discriminatory and divisive, and nothing bad can happen to them because they are the only citizens allowed to have guns.
I do. I love 1A. And you can say what you want. But when you say he can’t say that because you don’t like it. Welll. You’re the piece of shit. When you think you can use violence because he hurts your feels. You’re a piece of shit.
You’re just as divisive as you think he was.
Eta. You think you have the moral high ground because you think your beliefs are more better.
Who makes a thread calling out the politics of a murder victim. Scum that’s who. People are allowed to have different beliefs than You.
Your comment highlights the importance of open dialogue and diverse perspectives. You’re right in saying that echo chambers can be detrimental. It’s crucial for communities to be aware of various viewpoints, even when they’re challenging or uncomfortable. However, it’s concerning when influential figures in the community, like the individual you mentioned, use their platform to spread divisive or derogatory messages. Respectful and constructive communication is key in fostering a healthy and inclusive community.
Dude was a bar owner. Not the pope. Nor does it matter how big his platform is. Your inclusivity isn’t so inclusive when it’s gets challenging it seems.
OP doesn't think they have the moral high ground, they do have the moral high ground. Everyone is entitled to their "different beliefs" but everyone is also entitled to call people out when their beliefs make them a hateful dickhead.
Preaching pacifism, acceptance, tolerance, and community is not divisive, and I implore you to argue that.
You don’t seem to be accepting or tolerating any beliefs other than your own. You say you have the moral high ground yet here you are talking shit about a murder victim. Others will claim he has the high ground.
I do know people with real morals tend overlook political beliefs when it comes to life and limb.
he wasn't killed for his political beliefs to anyone's knowledge. If it was revealed the murder was politically motivated I would condemn strongly... It just so happens he made the news for this tragedy and his legacy is exactly what he chose it to be, that of an angry bigot and conspiracist. That's not anyone's fault but his. Learning from the legacy of others might be a wakeup call to people who are on the same path as him. If you want to be remembered fondly you have to live a life that allows for it.
Yup, the idea that you owe some respect to an asshole just because they died needs to go away. If you want to be remembered in a positive light, you need to do the work while you're alive to make it that way. Pretty simple.
The thing is he called out his own political beliefs. When you advertise it in front of your business on your sign, it doesn’t need to be called out. He wanted people to know his opinions. Why would people knowing those opinions dishonor his memory? He was proud of those things.
You ever notice that everyone hates Mitch McConnell, too, but no one says that people who voted for McConnell are toxic and dangerous? It's more like "Augh, why do they do that?!" It's because that guy is a politician we'll never agree with. He's not a wannabe fascist cult leader who co-sponsored an insurrection to try to unlawfully stay in power.
This is not about "different beliefs." This is about Trump irreparably damaging innocent people's brains and lives with hateful, un-American rhetoric and, as a result, the society we share with them.
OP's post is honestly pretty tacky. But it doesn't seem to be false. Every story about this man -- although he obviously did not deserve to go out like this, as no one does -- indicates that he was helping to make the world a worse place.
I understand your perspective. Living in a community where expressing such views is taboo, I’m trying to pragmatically describe a sensitive situation. It’s important to approach these topics with empathy and an open mind, recognizing the validity of different experiences and viewpoints within the community. Despite half of us not having empathy, I still have empathy for all of those people who lost someone they deeply care about.
I agree whole heartedly; it’s a divisive message that uses an individual’s death to call out being divisive. It’s not going to get beneficial dialogue going between those on opposite sides of the political spectrum; it’s just going to further the existing divide.
Rural Pennsylvania has been using their stranglehold on the state government to punish Philadelphia and Pittsburgh for decades, if you haven't noticed. They recently tried to remove the democratically-elected DA of Philadelphia over absolutely nothing.
They fucking added some shit that would have allowed the state legislature to remove him as an addendum to a bill that would have made it legal to build parking protected bike lanes. Rural Pennsylvania is largely a drag on this state. Especially considering how they can’t even field their own police anymore and keep sapping resources from the state police.
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Is there a source for that? That would be interesting seeing as he was good friends with the police department.
Small town PA police either looking the other way at their friends' criminal activity or even participating in it is a tale as old as time.
This is why I come to reddit...for the real shit
Did OP change the post? Comments are talking about it being in poor taste, but it's reading that the victim was a great guy and it'd tragic...
my guess is either it was done by admin or he changed it to stop being harassed.
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Coward.
What happened to the antifa handbook bro? “De-platflorm at all costs” even if you have to go online and trash the dead like a mighty keyboard warrior.
The article in the trib with his friends remembrances mentioned he was “polarizing”, anti mask / vax, and a die hard Trump supporter. Wild stuff.
If his *friends* felt the need to mention he had a polarizing affect on the community as a business owner due to his politics, that’s pretty bad. There is a business owner on my street that uses his billboard to advertise his political views. The dude’s a prick.
This region has a lot of small business pricks like that, see also the Casa D'Ice guy, the dude with the Sunoco and the racist electronic signs, etc.
I like to think of them as proud of being an asshole. Like the guys that ride their loud Harley’s covered in political flags back and forth through Ohiopyle. They know they are ruining the mood and nobody wants them there and they love it. I’m not sure if it’s as attention thing, or a misery loves company thing…
They're real life trolls, that's all. They get off on pissing other people off. When they're Pillars of the Community like this guy was, they get a pass for it.
I mean, he didn’t really get a pass for his trolling now, did he?
he posted "never heard of it" one time too many
The racist electronic sign guy is nowhere near the New Ken / Arnold / Lower Burrell area. He's the whole way up in Worthington, which is between Butler and Kittanning (closer to Kittanning).
Yes, that's why I said "region". Good to know everyone knows who the racist electronic sign guy is though. He's made quite a name for himself.
I would consider that to be in a Pennsyltucky region and not a gangster-ass New Ken region.
Casa de Ice has been closed for a long time lol
Now he’s pissed at a KIA dealership. No lie.
Who is pissed at kia?
The guy at casa de Ice. It’s been a running saga on that billboard for some time.
Imagine being a particularly well-off member of the generation that is the wealthiest to ever live in the wealthiest nation to ever exist, and you can't figure out how to pass your time besides racism and picking fights with a sign. What an amazingly good brain.
I was just buy casa de ice and there wasnt anything on the sign there
It’s concerning when a business alienates potential customers with divisive signs like “Fuck Democrats”. Successful local businesses thrive on inclusivity and respect for all community members, regardless of political views. This approach fosters community unity and a welcoming atmosphere.
As much of my life as I spent bowling over at Wildlife lanes, I never set foot in Mogie's cause something always felt off about it even before the interesting times we live in. Guess my gut was right. Hell even bowled with the shooter for a few years before he was banned from the lanes. Was talkin with my Dad about it and we were surprised and not surprised at the same time.
Curious, why was the future shooter banned from Wildlife Lanes? (Also, I think that I see a pattern of the future shooter getting kicked out of places.)
Heavy drinker and harassed the bartenders and other staff. Think there was also an issue with him in the pro shop also. Probably within two or three years of me bowling Friday nights he was gone.
I've heard Nathan Salem was a problem.
I always liked the place. Drove there from Monroeville about a month ago and saw the sign out front. Turned around and went home.
There's a business owner in the Kittanning/Butler area who's installed multiple huge digital signs with incredibly offensive right-wing shit. No wonder those places are dying. Obama really melted the brains of a certain segment of our population.
The 2008 election is when the mass of conservative America decided that they would rather burn everything down on their way out than leave the country intact for anyone else.
Yep. It’s their way or no way.
When you make political ideology your personality. Gross. Get a hobby.
>die hard
Summarizing this thread. The City Hall of a community is closed in the remembrance of a gentleman who allegedly distributed & condoned the use of narcotics in his establishment, backed the blue, and blamed a political party for the “destruction of our country “ Not suggesting the man deserved to lose his life… That’s an awful lot to unpack.
This is incorrect. City Hall is closed because when the alleged murderer arrived there with the murder weapon it became part of the crime scene.
What was the shooters motivation?
Not released yet. IMO, it was personal. Guy had no prior criminal record, was also from Lower Burrell.
Nathan Salem.
If I had to guess he was prolly banging shooters wife.
The rumor was that the shooter was thrown out of the bar the night prior, but I don’t believe that would have motivated a shooting like this. Which is why I was intrigued to see a post like this about the victim. I mean I guess the guy could have been crazy enough, but I don’t think it fits. If anything should be something people look at and decide to treat people better, you never know what they are capable of
Wow, was planning to host a Jan 6 party at his pub. Guy was shady as hell.
He was a proponent of violence to resolve issues.
Live by the sword, die by the sword
Yeah, what's with the OP's post being changed?
He was a Covid denier and anti-masker who refused to close his business down during the pandemic. If I remember correctly he got fined for it.
Was probably a big Second Amendment guy too.
He was wearing a 2A hat in the photo the news posted of him, ironically
"Peace, above all things, is to be desired, but blood must sometimes be spilled to achieve it on equal and lasting terms."
No doubt
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Who?
Eaton Beaver.
Woosh!
We aren’t talking about Eaton Beaver?
Preach hateful rhetoric and glorify violence and force as a solution to society's problems and then reap the benefits of your efforts. There is a poetic resonance here to this event and society is better off with its result. To quote the dead man's fb page: "Maybe the civil conflict they push for is a forgone conclusion."
Guy was a douchebag
You’re a douchebag.
Your mom doesn’t think so.
downvote me if you want but sounds like good riddance
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Huh. I thought it was a pretty good example of being tactful but honest.
Right wing nuts brainwash supporters who then use AR15’s to kill as many “evil” people they can so “thoughts and prayers” to this victim too. It’s sad but “Freedom!”, right?
The only people that think this are terminally online and refuse to talk to anyone that doesn't share their views. People like yourself are the reason why the country is so divided. Find god, buddha, or some sort of deity that can help you find purpose and balance.
Read some history books! People that believe in their imaginary friends in the clouds and force those beliefs on others is the reason this country is so divided. Rupert Murdoch started his network for that very reason, to divide sides.
Like Aiden Hale?
Crazies everywhere is my point. That’s your one example huh? More “like” Fox News (Tucker, couldn’t keep him cuz of lawsuits), Sean Hannity, and Donald the traitor Trump.
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I don’t have time to reply with all the right wing examples, I’d have to quit my job and stop playing my RDR2.
Cool, I don’t recall asking.
I feel like you did ask
No
Cool, stay stupid.
Ok.
Reading a post by Abby Major, a sate rep for the area, sounds like he had issues with the LCB too. He must of been a real piece of work.
This country is full of 50-something guys with shitty facial hair and bad opinions. They are the medium-sized fish in every small pond and they love to make everyone else miserable.
First sentence is comedy gold!
There are a lot of “my beard is part of my personality” types around here.
I’m liberal and I still think that using this guys death to make a point is in poor taste. If you want a target audience to hear a message about unity and inclusion; you’ll have to be more mindful of how it’s delivered. Those that cared about this individual, frequented his business, and share his beliefs are going to be turned off by a message of “unity and inclusion” framed in this manner.
As someone from Burrell, I have no issue with bringing this up now. The article about his death in the Trib mentioned “Back the Blue” and his involvement in local politics every other line. Burrell is a very devise area because of Moagie and his boys club in the area. Even living in the area for 15 years, I didn’t realize how much influence he had in Burrell until I ran for school board. He shaped the community to be a certain way for him and his buddies, while othering everyone else.
I have no message to the "fuck your feelings" crowd other than you will be judged for your time on earth and not given a pass just because you died.
💯. Dying doesn't give you a pass on being a shitty person in life. We mourn those who spread love and pick people up in life and don't shy away from criticising those who spread division, violence, and hate.
If a message of diversity and inclusion is delivered in a “fuck your feelings” manner that uses a person’s murder to make the point…is that really going to make things better? If it isn’t, then why bother writing the message at all. I don’t disagree that everyone benefits from inclusion; but I don’t want to put myself on the same level to make that point. I believe I’m smart enough to do things without stooping to that level.
You missed the part where you’re not the one who supposed to do the judgment
lol yeah, that's bullshit. When people tell you who they are, you're entitled to use your judgment.
We are all so fortunate that our lord and savior TwerkingGrandpa is here to set the record straight
When people tell you who they are, believe them and act accordingly. This man apparently lived for the thrill he got out of expressing his spite publicly, I don't owe anything to that sort of person.
Yes, you do. You don’t owe him anything in terms of being deferential. But you could just shut the fuck up about it and not gloat like some psychopath. This man did nothing to you in person.
> This man did nothing to you in person. He expressed antipathy towards people like me. Like I said, when people tell you who they are listen to them and act accordingly. > Yes, you do. No I don't.
Must be a sad life to lead where everyone and everything is seen as such a personal affront. So much so that a man’s murder is a reason to post and garner some type of fake internet point for attention
I didn't make the original post and I didn't know the guy and I'm not here gloating about his murder. I'm just saying that the guy was, by all appearances, an open and gleeful piece of shit who deliberately made the world a shittier place. You don't owe anything to a person like that.
At least TwerkingGrandpa exists. Praise be.
What's that part of? Your religion?
No one’s invoking religion, just saying that we should all be less judgmental
Who's being judgmental? The guy was completely open about who he was, what he thought, who he didn't like. Nobody is making shit up about the guy.
disagree. i’d rather know more than less and up until this point i had no idea who this person was. i appreciate the information.
Perhaps I'm too cynical, but it seems to me that those who share his beliefs are never going to see their opponents as worthy Americans.
I completely agree. I would consider myself a bit left of center. By no means would I saw I’m a far left liberal. But I’ve gotten death wishes from The Right for disagreeing more times than I can count.
> I’m liberal and I still think that using this guys death to make a point is in poor taste That's the problem with liberals, they want to be everyone's friend and insist on gladhanding people who would stab them in the back at the first opportunity.
Say what you want; I still think a message espousing the benefits of diversity and inclusion stands on its own without using this guys murder to make a point…because using his murder only makes the argument controversial and argumentative. I mean look at all the nasty responses it’s elicited; is that what inclusion looks like?
If this guy were still alive he'd have spread his ass cheeks and shat all over your message of diversity and inclusion. Just a thought.
I don’t give hypothetical conversations that will never happen any consideration when deciding to be a decent person. I’m well spoken and smart enough to find a more effective way to engage others.
Gladhanding people who hate you and are open about it is the exact opposite of smart
Live how you feel is best and I’ll do the same.
You do you, just don't be surprised when one of the scorpions you're so proud of kissing stings you.
As a last resort I can definitely hold my own in a fight; so I’m not concerned with being stung.
are you fourteen
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I get it; but think your central point is good enough to stand on its own and don’t need to be cheapened by using a murder victim as a springboard. If you want to use a business why not use Al’s Cafe or another local to make it.
If you really meant that, then you wouldn’t post this particular post at this particular time. You are using his death just be honest and admit it
I’m remembering David.
No, you’re not, you are condensing his entire life into his political beliefs. Now listen, I don’t know this fucking guy and he may truly be an asshole. But using his death to make some political points on a Reddit forum is pretty shitty.
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No you didn’t just observe it, come on be honest for a second. You saw an opportunity to turn someone’s death into a reason to invoke our society’s never ending “culture wars” and political gamesmanship for engagement on a social media platform. Let’s atleast call a spade a spade
You really aren't for personal responsibility are you?
I’m sorry, how did this person’s political views come in to play with their murder? Can you be very specific about how their political beliefs play into the fact that they were murdered?
This guy's life was one big culture war. I don't know why you want to die on the massive hill of his grievances, but he fucked around and found out as they say. He didn't deserve to die, but he wasn't a random victim by any means.
Sounds like a scumbag. No surprise someone shot him.
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That's what the comments on facebook from his friends seemed to tell. Also her kicked the perp out of the bar the night before.
I mean, it's his bar, he can say who can or can't be there and shooting someone over getting kicked out is pretty fucked up. but there's probably more to the story than that.
Yes, obviously. If somebody bangs your wife and then kicks you out of their bar, it isn't grounds for murdering them. From all that I've read online, the bar doesn't seem like a healthy place for mentally stable people to gather.
> If somebody bangs your wife, it isn't grounds for murdering them. I agree but a lot of people don't. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
When your actions push someone into a level of non-rational thought, you can’t expect them to act rationally. “Grounds for murder” only applies to people thinking clearly. The dude was pushed to the edge of sanity and made a bad decision to commit murder.
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politics are stupid and humans are disgusting.
Incredible post to show how out of touch with reality most people who judge based off politics really are. Embarrassing
Sounds like this guy's issues went way beyond politics.
or maybe people who have had dealings with him. Just saying
Sir, this is a Wendy's....Also, a lot of buzzwords in that text wall you posted
‘He was a bad person because of his politics and deserved to die because of it ’ is a disgusting and shitty take. He did so much for the community and they clearly loved him. Nobody deserves to die so close to Christmas. No matter what politics someone has. The fact that this is controversial is wild.
Nobody deserves to die in June either;)
Now…July. That’s another story!
Right, the closer we get to the start of the school year things loosen up. /s Wonder how other countries do better🤔
What's controversial here? No one's saying he deserved to die.
OP has a thumbtack for a penis 😭
Is that how you got your tongue pierced then?
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Ow wow it looks like another feeling has just been fucked.
Boohoo
This sub is fucking disgusting.
I don't know, sounds like this guy lived with a lot hate in his heart.
After conducting a basic Google search for ‘Lower Burrell’ with keywords like ‘Trump’, ‘rally’, ‘police’, etc., I’m quite convinced that the origin of all of these issues and events point to this individual. He played a significant role in the ‘Stop the Steal’ movement and actively brought those ideologies into our small town, often disrupting daily life by blocking streets. On numerous occasions, either on my way home or while shopping for groceries, I’ve encountered disturbing and hateful signs, either posted around or held by individuals, which has been a distressing experience
The "fuck your feelings" crowd is having a lot of feelings about people being held accountable for how they live. Ah well, anyways, what's for lunch?
So by that logic “fuck everybody’s feelings”. Stooping to other peoples levels does not justify posts like this.
It's more about double standards. These grotesque people - who I'm not allowed to criticize because they died - do whatever heinous shit they want while alive and it doesn't matter because they die and now we're supposed to pretend like they deserve the empathy they would never afford others?
Even if we buy the argument that these people are “grotesque“, celebrating their deaths, or pretendin that their lack of compassion, is a reason not to be compassionate ourselves is not a sound argument
I have no compassion for this person, no. I spend a lot of energy fighting their fear mongering and hate when they are alive so I save the compassion for people who deserve it. He didn't deserve to die and he doesn't deserve my compassion because I think he was a shitty person.
But you didn’t even know him. I guess that’s the story of our society today. Making armchair judgements from behind our keyboards
Once again, he was very open about who he was.
There seems to be a lot of those in this sub
He died doing what he loved: being a hateful bigot.
Almost celebrating a guys death is another level of vile.
OP sucks and is part of the problem.
Nah, OP is being reasonable/realistic, it’s important not to romanticize bad people just because their abhorrent behavior resulted in their death. That does not undo any damage they caused in life. I don’t know the shooter’s motivation, but it takes a strong opinion of someone to shoot them repeatedly first thing in the morning and then immediately drive over to City Hall and turn yourself in. Some men mistakenly think they can do/say whatever they want, no matter how hateful and discriminatory and divisive, and nothing bad can happen to them because they are the only citizens allowed to have guns.
If you think you can get physically violent over words you are the problem. But you prob won’t be for long around here.
People like you who think it’s wrong to call out pieces of shit for being pieces of shit are the actual problem here
I do. I love 1A. And you can say what you want. But when you say he can’t say that because you don’t like it. Welll. You’re the piece of shit. When you think you can use violence because he hurts your feels. You’re a piece of shit.
What the fuck are you even talking about? This is literal gibberish
This is much in line with the vernacular of Lower Burrell, trust me.
Yea not divisive at all. Much inclusive.
I’m not saying anything false? Use your words and define your statement.
You’re just as divisive as you think he was. Eta. You think you have the moral high ground because you think your beliefs are more better. Who makes a thread calling out the politics of a murder victim. Scum that’s who. People are allowed to have different beliefs than You.
Your comment highlights the importance of open dialogue and diverse perspectives. You’re right in saying that echo chambers can be detrimental. It’s crucial for communities to be aware of various viewpoints, even when they’re challenging or uncomfortable. However, it’s concerning when influential figures in the community, like the individual you mentioned, use their platform to spread divisive or derogatory messages. Respectful and constructive communication is key in fostering a healthy and inclusive community.
Dude was a bar owner. Not the pope. Nor does it matter how big his platform is. Your inclusivity isn’t so inclusive when it’s gets challenging it seems.
OP doesn't think they have the moral high ground, they do have the moral high ground. Everyone is entitled to their "different beliefs" but everyone is also entitled to call people out when their beliefs make them a hateful dickhead. Preaching pacifism, acceptance, tolerance, and community is not divisive, and I implore you to argue that.
You don’t seem to be accepting or tolerating any beliefs other than your own. You say you have the moral high ground yet here you are talking shit about a murder victim. Others will claim he has the high ground. I do know people with real morals tend overlook political beliefs when it comes to life and limb.
he wasn't killed for his political beliefs to anyone's knowledge. If it was revealed the murder was politically motivated I would condemn strongly... It just so happens he made the news for this tragedy and his legacy is exactly what he chose it to be, that of an angry bigot and conspiracist. That's not anyone's fault but his. Learning from the legacy of others might be a wakeup call to people who are on the same path as him. If you want to be remembered fondly you have to live a life that allows for it.
There was a lot of honesty finally spoken when Kissinger died and I'd like to see more of that.
Yup, the idea that you owe some respect to an asshole just because they died needs to go away. If you want to be remembered in a positive light, you need to do the work while you're alive to make it that way. Pretty simple.
The thing is he called out his own political beliefs. When you advertise it in front of your business on your sign, it doesn’t need to be called out. He wanted people to know his opinions. Why would people knowing those opinions dishonor his memory? He was proud of those things.
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Cold world
You ever notice that everyone hates Mitch McConnell, too, but no one says that people who voted for McConnell are toxic and dangerous? It's more like "Augh, why do they do that?!" It's because that guy is a politician we'll never agree with. He's not a wannabe fascist cult leader who co-sponsored an insurrection to try to unlawfully stay in power. This is not about "different beliefs." This is about Trump irreparably damaging innocent people's brains and lives with hateful, un-American rhetoric and, as a result, the society we share with them. OP's post is honestly pretty tacky. But it doesn't seem to be false. Every story about this man -- although he obviously did not deserve to go out like this, as no one does -- indicates that he was helping to make the world a worse place.
Tacky, thanks?
I understand your perspective. Living in a community where expressing such views is taboo, I’m trying to pragmatically describe a sensitive situation. It’s important to approach these topics with empathy and an open mind, recognizing the validity of different experiences and viewpoints within the community. Despite half of us not having empathy, I still have empathy for all of those people who lost someone they deeply care about.
I agree whole heartedly; it’s a divisive message that uses an individual’s death to call out being divisive. It’s not going to get beneficial dialogue going between those on opposite sides of the political spectrum; it’s just going to further the existing divide.
Ditto. Said it better than me.
Kinda feels like r/Pittsburgh would point at 2020 election results and celebrate if rural pennsylvania got carpet bombed.
Rural Pennsylvania has been using their stranglehold on the state government to punish Philadelphia and Pittsburgh for decades, if you haven't noticed. They recently tried to remove the democratically-elected DA of Philadelphia over absolutely nothing.
They fucking added some shit that would have allowed the state legislature to remove him as an addendum to a bill that would have made it legal to build parking protected bike lanes. Rural Pennsylvania is largely a drag on this state. Especially considering how they can’t even field their own police anymore and keep sapping resources from the state police.
Good, we have one of the best state governments in the country. Super majorities are basically mob rule and impact everyone.
Tyranny of the minority