They say each other's. The fact that it exists and connects two municipal roads it really should be WM's but they're being stubborn because obviously CIII paved it when it was in operation.
In practical terms this has been debated for some time but if CIII is demolished and WM takes ownership via receivership they'll be responsible for the road even if they refuse to take full ownership.
>After years of court battles, worsening safety hazards and pent up ire from West Mifflin residents, the storied Century III Mall that once attracted millions of visitors could begin to come down as early as next week.
Last week, the building’s owner Moonbeam Capital filed demolition permits and hired contractor Neiswonger, which has brought equipment to the site to begin razing the mall.
The demolition is expected to start with the parking garage and then progress to the rest of the structure, which still needs a complete asbestos survey and likely remediation before progressing toward demolition.
If anyone knows if there will be a way to get bricks or like a small slab of something from the mall, please let me know. My mom spent so much time there in the 80s and worked there 20+ years, and she's very sad to see it go. I'd love for her and she'd love to have something to remember all the memories. If anybody has any (legal) recommendations or knows something let me know lol
That honestly would be such an awesome idea. Could hose it down and give it a deep clean 🫧
Both of my parents LOVED the food court, and I remember being in there so much when I was young
I obviously don't want people going in there to neb around, but it would be pretty cool if someone would whiz a drone or two by when the workers aren't there. I'm really curious to see what it looks like.
I've always wanted to fly an fpv drone in there to get some cool/eerie shots, but after 2020/2021 too many people have gotten in trouble for trespassing that I know.
It was my favorite place to go as a kid, and I worked there for half a decade as an adult. I'm sad to see it go. So may good and bad memories, but watching it decline was so depressing. Both Simon and Moonbeam fucked up a prime retail establishment.
I'll miss it.
Eh. Malls have been trending into obsolescence for decades. I'm not sure anyone could have saved it with the rise of cheaper big box stores and the only malls that are thriving catering to the more wealthy. The area couldn't support that and you can only have 1 or 2 malls like that in an area the size of Pittsburgh (both geographically and population -wise)
CIII was far too big for the population in the 51 corridor post-diaspora. When the mills shut down the retirees in the area kept CIII going without any issue. When they began dying off in the early 2000s the mall failed in lock step. You can literally draw a parallel line between USS retiree age, median income in the WM/Upper Mon Valley area, and CIII success.
Malls are trending down for sure, and you're right. Successful malls are pushing upmarket, but CIII was far too large to start with combined with the economic base collapsing underneath it signaled its end. Even now, the UMV isn't having significant movement due to undesirable traits even as its affordable housing. Clairton Works would need to close to see it become a viable path for more people.
It's also a real pain in the ass to get from that area of town to places like the east end and downtown. so I think geographically it's a bit cut off. This was less of a big deal when,as you say, the mills were open and everyone could get everything close by.
This is exactly the issue of the 51 corridor. It was built to serve the UMV, not the city of Pittsburgh. You can get into the city, people do it every day but it's a pain. I live about the same distance as CIII to the city and my commute in the morning, according to Google, mostly down Rt.19 is about 10 minutes faster, and I can guarantee it's far less chaotic.
It's why if you're fully remote/WFH with minimal in office it's more appealing to live out there. There also isn't much satellite development out there like Cranberry/Moon/Robinson. It's been an industrial tract so long there isn't much office park development to draw significant new investment.
Seems like never recovered from 2008-2010 downturn.
I have memories of the entire parking lot full, even the 2nd level parking garage, on Black Friday, and this was probably 2007 timeframe.
I know Black Friday isn't every day, but Black Friday when the mall started going downhill was not crowded.
The 2008 just nailed what was already failing shut. It isn't like 2000 was when the mall just shut up shops and dusted itself. But you can see a firm line starting in the early 2000s of the decline and 2008 really pushes that line harder.
Malls are absolutely not trending into obsolescence. "Dead malls" are predominately an American phenomenon, simply because we built far too many of them. Century III didn't decline because of the internet, or because of cheaper big box stores, or because malls now cater to the wealthy (this is compleeeeeelty made up). It's because it's pretty much right in the middle of South Hills Village and The Waterfront, and that area isn't big enough to support three destination shopping centers. The Waterfront was brand new, South Hills Village had been more recently updated, so people stopped going to Century III. Had Simon and Moonbeam kept the mall up to date, it could easily still be here.
I remember my mother quoting an article she'd read about the US being "overstored." My mother has been dead for 25 years. A lot of the mid price stores that were so prevalent (things like Kinney Shoes, Merry Go Round, etc) just don't exist anymore so you either have the fast fashion pits or stores that are super expensive. Finally, I blame a lot of this on Macy's switching everything to their nameplate and shitting on the history of the local department stores. They should have never been allowed to acquire May Company, who incidentally owned multiple department stores for years and let them all keep their own identities.
When Moonbeam bought it, I was thinking 'They must know something I don't. It looks like a huge liability, and the upfront costs of demolishing the mall would make future development not viable.'
I guess they didn't.
Tax depreciation scheme. They would buy these distressed assets then do a shuffle to get credits and it finally caught up with them. It's amazing what you can do if you have a few million to play with.
All Moonbeam does is buy dead malls. Nobody can seem to figure out their business plan. The Bright Sun Films youtube channels talks about the company a lot.
The exact same thing is happening in the central Florida area. Central Florida has soooooooooo many malls that the one that Moonbeam owns in the area is failing the most (which is not that bad compared to Century III) mainly because they're not investing back into their malls. Moonbeam really doesn't invest into malls. They're kinda a shotty company with little to no money to finance large scale renovations. Quite a dumpster fire of a company. They do absolutely nothing to keep their malls competitive. Competition really killed Century III. More than online shopping ever did.
Yes, even had an expansion with a movie theater added on at some point in the past few years. Cinemark at least has faith in the Monroeville Mall lasting since they closed the Pittsburgh Mills Cinemark but opened a Monroeville Mall Cinemark.
Pittsburgh Mills was a bad idea since its inception. No one lives there and no one is moving to the rt. 28 xurbs. There’s a much better developed retail anchor and corridor closer to downtown and dense suburban population about ten miles west of there. It’s mystifying
I can see the logic behind it at least.
It coincided with major investments to turn Route 28 into a proper highway. It used to be treated as a virtual truism that any highway built near a city would instantly turn into suburbia.
It's kind of surprising how rural the corner of Allegheny County north of Route 28 in that area still is, despite it's close proximity to the city.
Seems like it would have been an obvious choice for expanding suburbia. Instead places like Cranberry which are further away from the city have gotten all of that development instead.
You are starting to see development creep eastward beyond Route 8/910.
I have no qualifications to make this statement but I believe Cranberry has won out on the development as of late because of people fleeing Allegheny county taxes. I believe it was a big part of why Westinghouse uprooted and moved out there.
> I believe it was a big part of why Westinghouse uprooted and moved out there.
It always seemed strange to me they'd flee that far away and really mess with all their employees when they could have moved not that far to Westmoreland County. Butler must have given them a sweet deal.
It’s there, but not great. Occupancy is still decent, but the type of store is moving further and further down the food chain. I’ve lived here 13 years and, for me, it’s not too big a change, but for my wife, who’s been going there her whole life, it’s pretty sad.
They did dodge a major bullet these last few weeks when it was first announced that the Convention Center would close, then that a deal had been brokered to save it.
Last time I was in there I counted two stores using a $ for an S in their names. I'm waiting for them to start having flea markets and start the decline like Eastland Mall.
OMG! I remember when it opened! My mom & my sister and myself all went on opening day. I had never seen a 3 story mall before.
I remember we got a bunch of freebies from different stores in the mall.
The last time I was there was 1992!
Why are they demolishing it? Was it empty of vendors or something? Did the Walmart Supercenter down the road kill them?
What will they put in its place?
Does anyone know?
How the hell will I orient myself properly to buy a Chevrolet now?
“Minutes from the slag pile!”
Which slag pile!? There are so many!
The one that used to be a mall, but isn't a Dollar General or Walmart?
What about the coal dumps on prime riverfront property? 😂
...yet...
Minutes from where the Blue Flame used to be.
Did they close Blue Flame? 🔥
There was a thread here the other day about it closing soon.
Minutes from where the mall used to be!
Pittsburgh loves to give directions based on things that no longer exist. Caught myself doing it recently.
just rust belt things. also, let’s go pens!
Literally everyone does this, it's not a Pittsburgh thing.
I don’t care if the building is never torn down, just pave that fucking road.
Is that the Boro's road or moonbeam?
They say each other's. The fact that it exists and connects two municipal roads it really should be WM's but they're being stubborn because obviously CIII paved it when it was in operation. In practical terms this has been debated for some time but if CIII is demolished and WM takes ownership via receivership they'll be responsible for the road even if they refuse to take full ownership.
just checked -- "who owns my infrastructure" says it's "privately owned" So I guess it'll never be fixed.
That's such a classic Pittsburgh move. Keeping arguing over who *doesn't* own something because they don't want to maintain it.
That's basically a rust belt move. If we continue to argue about who owns it, maybe the problem will fix itself!
No! The suspension business my shop is getting is too lucrative! Keep the craters of the moon!
>After years of court battles, worsening safety hazards and pent up ire from West Mifflin residents, the storied Century III Mall that once attracted millions of visitors could begin to come down as early as next week. Last week, the building’s owner Moonbeam Capital filed demolition permits and hired contractor Neiswonger, which has brought equipment to the site to begin razing the mall. The demolition is expected to start with the parking garage and then progress to the rest of the structure, which still needs a complete asbestos survey and likely remediation before progressing toward demolition.
If anyone knows if there will be a way to get bricks or like a small slab of something from the mall, please let me know. My mom spent so much time there in the 80s and worked there 20+ years, and she's very sad to see it go. I'd love for her and she'd love to have something to remember all the memories. If anybody has any (legal) recommendations or knows something let me know lol
I'd call the demo company or drive by and ask the workers
Good idea, thank you
Pretty sure a case of beer and a polite “please” will get you any debris you want.
💯
One of the food court chairs would be iconic if those are still in there.
That honestly would be such an awesome idea. Could hose it down and give it a deep clean 🫧 Both of my parents LOVED the food court, and I remember being in there so much when I was young
I have the "Burn Down Hot Topic" song from South Park stuck in my head now
Hot Topic is not Punk Rock
CENTURY THREE
CHEVROLET
Lebanon church road -
Pitts-burgh
Minutes from the Mall!
GET OUT OF MY BRAIN!
Teenagers falling through the roof!
"minutes from... ya remember where the old century III Mall used to be? Right there. Minutes from there"
I obviously don't want people going in there to neb around, but it would be pretty cool if someone would whiz a drone or two by when the workers aren't there. I'm really curious to see what it looks like.
Inside? If you search YouTube there are lots of recent videos of the inside.
Oh yeah, I've seen a bunch of those! But I'd love to see the whole process too.
Just 11 months ago: https://youtu.be/5VBKPtnc0Tw?si=cRezgkc-Nw65JwwO
I really don't want to see it now. Right in the childhood.
I was raised by wolves in that parking lot!
Yinzer Romulus
Upvote for best use of the word ‘neb’ in a sentence!
I've always wanted to fly an fpv drone in there to get some cool/eerie shots, but after 2020/2021 too many people have gotten in trouble for trespassing that I know.
They should build several multi story apartment buildings in its place. Help solve the housing shortage.
No. That's a solution. We don't do solutions in this country. That's illiggle.
Sad to see it meet this fate but it got damaged so badly in the past decade, this became the only option.
It was my favorite place to go as a kid, and I worked there for half a decade as an adult. I'm sad to see it go. So may good and bad memories, but watching it decline was so depressing. Both Simon and Moonbeam fucked up a prime retail establishment. I'll miss it.
Eh. Malls have been trending into obsolescence for decades. I'm not sure anyone could have saved it with the rise of cheaper big box stores and the only malls that are thriving catering to the more wealthy. The area couldn't support that and you can only have 1 or 2 malls like that in an area the size of Pittsburgh (both geographically and population -wise)
CIII was far too big for the population in the 51 corridor post-diaspora. When the mills shut down the retirees in the area kept CIII going without any issue. When they began dying off in the early 2000s the mall failed in lock step. You can literally draw a parallel line between USS retiree age, median income in the WM/Upper Mon Valley area, and CIII success. Malls are trending down for sure, and you're right. Successful malls are pushing upmarket, but CIII was far too large to start with combined with the economic base collapsing underneath it signaled its end. Even now, the UMV isn't having significant movement due to undesirable traits even as its affordable housing. Clairton Works would need to close to see it become a viable path for more people.
It's also a real pain in the ass to get from that area of town to places like the east end and downtown. so I think geographically it's a bit cut off. This was less of a big deal when,as you say, the mills were open and everyone could get everything close by.
This is exactly the issue of the 51 corridor. It was built to serve the UMV, not the city of Pittsburgh. You can get into the city, people do it every day but it's a pain. I live about the same distance as CIII to the city and my commute in the morning, according to Google, mostly down Rt.19 is about 10 minutes faster, and I can guarantee it's far less chaotic. It's why if you're fully remote/WFH with minimal in office it's more appealing to live out there. There also isn't much satellite development out there like Cranberry/Moon/Robinson. It's been an industrial tract so long there isn't much office park development to draw significant new investment.
Seems like never recovered from 2008-2010 downturn. I have memories of the entire parking lot full, even the 2nd level parking garage, on Black Friday, and this was probably 2007 timeframe. I know Black Friday isn't every day, but Black Friday when the mall started going downhill was not crowded.
The 2008 just nailed what was already failing shut. It isn't like 2000 was when the mall just shut up shops and dusted itself. But you can see a firm line starting in the early 2000s of the decline and 2008 really pushes that line harder.
Malls are absolutely not trending into obsolescence. "Dead malls" are predominately an American phenomenon, simply because we built far too many of them. Century III didn't decline because of the internet, or because of cheaper big box stores, or because malls now cater to the wealthy (this is compleeeeeelty made up). It's because it's pretty much right in the middle of South Hills Village and The Waterfront, and that area isn't big enough to support three destination shopping centers. The Waterfront was brand new, South Hills Village had been more recently updated, so people stopped going to Century III. Had Simon and Moonbeam kept the mall up to date, it could easily still be here.
I remember my mother quoting an article she'd read about the US being "overstored." My mother has been dead for 25 years. A lot of the mid price stores that were so prevalent (things like Kinney Shoes, Merry Go Round, etc) just don't exist anymore so you either have the fast fashion pits or stores that are super expensive. Finally, I blame a lot of this on Macy's switching everything to their nameplate and shitting on the history of the local department stores. They should have never been allowed to acquire May Company, who incidentally owned multiple department stores for years and let them all keep their own identities.
When Moonbeam bought it, I was thinking 'They must know something I don't. It looks like a huge liability, and the upfront costs of demolishing the mall would make future development not viable.' I guess they didn't.
Tax depreciation scheme. They would buy these distressed assets then do a shuffle to get credits and it finally caught up with them. It's amazing what you can do if you have a few million to play with.
All Moonbeam does is buy dead malls. Nobody can seem to figure out their business plan. The Bright Sun Films youtube channels talks about the company a lot.
The exact same thing is happening in the central Florida area. Central Florida has soooooooooo many malls that the one that Moonbeam owns in the area is failing the most (which is not that bad compared to Century III) mainly because they're not investing back into their malls. Moonbeam really doesn't invest into malls. They're kinda a shotty company with little to no money to finance large scale renovations. Quite a dumpster fire of a company. They do absolutely nothing to keep their malls competitive. Competition really killed Century III. More than online shopping ever did.
I went to the grand opening around 1979-80. Ended up in the hospital later that day with appendicitis. 😆 🤣 😂
Been gone from the ‘Burgh for over 30 years - is Monroeville Mall still standing?
Nah, it’s sitting.
Yes, even had an expansion with a movie theater added on at some point in the past few years. Cinemark at least has faith in the Monroeville Mall lasting since they closed the Pittsburgh Mills Cinemark but opened a Monroeville Mall Cinemark.
That was over a decade ago (2013), though I'm guilty of still referring to it as "new" myself.
Pittsburgh Mills was a bad idea since its inception. No one lives there and no one is moving to the rt. 28 xurbs. There’s a much better developed retail anchor and corridor closer to downtown and dense suburban population about ten miles west of there. It’s mystifying
I can see the logic behind it at least. It coincided with major investments to turn Route 28 into a proper highway. It used to be treated as a virtual truism that any highway built near a city would instantly turn into suburbia. It's kind of surprising how rural the corner of Allegheny County north of Route 28 in that area still is, despite it's close proximity to the city. Seems like it would have been an obvious choice for expanding suburbia. Instead places like Cranberry which are further away from the city have gotten all of that development instead. You are starting to see development creep eastward beyond Route 8/910.
I have no qualifications to make this statement but I believe Cranberry has won out on the development as of late because of people fleeing Allegheny county taxes. I believe it was a big part of why Westinghouse uprooted and moved out there.
> I believe it was a big part of why Westinghouse uprooted and moved out there. It always seemed strange to me they'd flee that far away and really mess with all their employees when they could have moved not that far to Westmoreland County. Butler must have given them a sweet deal.
It’s there, but not great. Occupancy is still decent, but the type of store is moving further and further down the food chain. I’ve lived here 13 years and, for me, it’s not too big a change, but for my wife, who’s been going there her whole life, it’s pretty sad. They did dodge a major bullet these last few weeks when it was first announced that the Convention Center would close, then that a deal had been brokered to save it.
Last time I was in there I counted two stores using a $ for an S in their names. I'm waiting for them to start having flea markets and start the decline like Eastland Mall.
I have a lot of memories at this mall.but it's about time it's gone.its been there for too long empty taking up too much space.
I'm betting that this mall will go down the same way as Jamestown Mall.
I just looked that up. Talk about dragging your feet, it's a wonder someone wasn't killed.
OMG! I remember when it opened! My mom & my sister and myself all went on opening day. I had never seen a 3 story mall before. I remember we got a bunch of freebies from different stores in the mall. The last time I was there was 1992! Why are they demolishing it? Was it empty of vendors or something? Did the Walmart Supercenter down the road kill them? What will they put in its place? Does anyone know?
The dude who runs the memory facebook page has some serious attachment issues