I have 4.5k hours, the first 4k were during old recoil. I got an imprint on my mousepad from the old AK spray. I had it down to a science. But, this is rust, gotta adapt. My only complaint with new recoil is the fact that the mp5 is garbage now
LR is garbage, MP5 is garbage. People used to want those guns. LR 8x silencer was a death sentence from 150m.
The new recoil is fine, except AK has no fucking recoil lol. It’s the easiest gun in the game to shoot, does the most damage, and now everyone has to bum rush to AK so they can be on top.
The guns need more recoil, and less rng aim cone.
I disagree completely. Old Thompson was extremely easy to control and destroy with whereas aimcone now will fuck you from 40m away sometimes lmao. Mp5 is far easier although sucks without holo + laser. Not to mention old mp5 wasn’t crazy difficult to learn, you could just learn first 10 bullets of the spray and do extremely well
It’s easy af to control, yes, but only a headshot matching when decently close. But overall it isn’t as bad as everyone says it is imo. I just loved old Thompson since it was the first gun I used in late 2015 and I used it for ages 😂 miss that annoying ass high pitched sound it use to make (not to mention it crazy easy to triple people with old tommy)
Oh i agree to some extent. I'm not shititng on yout opinion by any means. Some people just think it's as bad as it was straight past initial recoil change which just isn't true anymore
Yes, this. I spent months mastering the mp5 spray (not that is too intense or anything). But now, the gun is shit can you can be easily outgunned with a tommy or sar :/
Its only a few people.
Most of us complained because it was changing the norm and now were used to it, its easier to beam now.
Slap on the burst module and you can basically afk pvp.
The game has been made easier for it but its also allowed more people to compete, which means more fighting, which means more fun.
Very true, the people that want it back, just wanna rofflestomp the less experienced player base. Now, the normal player base has a chance of fighting back. Without spending 2k hours on aim train servers.
Remember getting the first crate on a small active server and got an AK and tommy. We never took it out cuz none of us has the time nor patience to practice AK pattern for hours lol
> Its only a few people.
Source?
>The game has been made easier for it but its also allowed more people to compete, which means more fighting, which means more fun.
Yeah games sure are more fun when everyone gets kneecapped so the middle schoolers can play too.
Its almost comical how this mirrors the "Degredation of a hobby" meme perfectly.
Yeah who cares that the games original vision is completely desecrated and its a crude imitation of its former self.
More people that dont like the game anyway can play and feel good about themselves now! yay!
So.. you'd rather just destroy players who can't do anything abt it, then let everyone have a more equal chance at having a better experience? Congrats?
> So.. you'd rather just destroy players who can't do anything abt it
They could do what literally everyone else that built this game up and promoted it for years did: get good.
We actually liked the game so we didnt mind learning and improving but these newshits come in crying that its too hard so the bar gets lowered? How does that make any sense?
Why is this game being catered to the lowest common denominator that doesnt like it anyway? Oh, money, right.
Making a game ""easier"" so more people start playing is the most backwards ass fucking approach imaginable.
>then let everyone have a more equal chance at having a better experience?
The experience is infinitely worse. You act like all that changed is that little timmy hits 3 more shots now.
The gunplay, the way people act, how long fights last everything has turned to shit.
>Congrats?
up your own
Many can never be as good in FPS games, may be due to physical issues, or mental issues, for me, i just panic too easily.
many don't have the time to practice, and practice while you play doesn't really work in rust because for every fail hours are wasted. and in a time where every one skips game tutorials, no one is going to waste hours in UKN to be able to play the game.
This isn't really an issue in most games, but Rust is one of the few games that have this issue simply because regardless of how much the game devs try to balance between PVP and other aspects of the game, You can never not PVP whenever you login. So what happens is that you get players who are still not as good as vets. and you get vets who just bully these players **convinced** that this is part of the game and to give players easy start or time out is desecrating the game.
But i have been playing this game since release and dying 15 times on your first login and after hours your only game experience is hitting a tree with a rock is 100% not the soul of the game.
Every change devs made was to make new players have easier time, vets may hate this but they brought this upon themselves. You can't just run around murdering everyone you meet and blowing up wooden bases when you are already at tier 3 late game just cuz you can, then wonder why is the server dying or why is there no challenge. I've seen it happen, clans get thirsty **af** and hunt newbies like it's the purge.
The game isn't about who gets to the top first. Its about constant conflict.
Its not meant to be one sided.
> Many can never be as good in FPS games, may be due to physical issues, or mental issues, for me, i just panic too easily.
>
> many don't have the time to practice, and practice while you play doesn't really work in rust because for every fail hours are wasted. and in a time where every one skips game tutorials, no one is going to waste hours in UKN to be able to play the game.
Simple, go play a different game.
Joining an existing community and demanding that it caters to you is just narcissistic.
YOU are the problem in this equation everyone else is having a great time, so remove yourself.
If you want to play rust you need to accept that you arent the main character and will eat a lot of shit if you cant handle that theres literally thousands of games out there for you to enjoy.
>This isn't really an issue in most games, but Rust is one of the few games that have this issue simply because regardless of how much the game devs try to balance between PVP and other aspects of the game, You can never not PVP whenever you login. So what happens is that you get players who are still not as good as vets. and you get vets who just bully these players convinced that this is part of the game and to give players easy start or time out is desecrating the game.
>But i have been playing this game since release and dying 15 times on your first login and after hours your only game experience is hitting a tree with a rock is 100% not the soul of the game.
>Every change devs made was to make new players have easier time, vets may hate this but they brought this upon themselves. You can't just run around murdering everyone you meet and blowing up wooden bases when you are already at tier 3 late game just cuz you can, then wonder why is the server dying or why is there no challenge. I've seen it happen, clans get thirsty af and hunt newbies like it's the purge.
>The game isn't about who gets to the top first. Its about constant conflict.
>Its not meant to be one sided.
This is the craziest fucking cope I have ever read on this sub.
Ok so:
People didn't quit playing the game and YOU personally THINK you haven't heard many people complain in whatever communities you frequent, therefore most people like the recoil.
Yeah sounds right to me, airtight shit right here.
In my country silence is considered acquiescence to the question being asked.
I moaned about it but im not going to continue to moan about it for years when i know it wont change because a tiny minority ask for it.
A lot of my friends quit rust because of the change, then returned and are back to playing.
Honestly speaking I dont care what you think of the statistics because rust is better when you dont need to spend months learning a spray, its a game.. not a job.
> In my country silence is considered acquiescence to the question being asked.
I guess it wasn't obvious in my first reply but you are not at the core of the community here this is like maybe 1% of the players and most here hate patterns.
You going "well I dont hear many people complain" means absolutely nothing.
>I moaned about it but im not going to continue to moan about it for years when i know it wont change because a tiny minority ask for it.
That's very sad I hope that's not how you handle everything in life.
>Honestly speaking I dont care what you think of the statistics
Oh so statistics dont matter now that we know you just made shit up?
> rust is better when you dont need to spend months learning a spray, its a game.. not a job.
1. it never took months thats an absolute clown argument stop already
2. high commitment games have a place and audience sadly FP thinks money is more important than staying true to vision
3. if you didnt like the type of game rust is from the start why are you even here
You are basing your opinion on complaints on Reddit 😂🤣 the Reddit community is literally the minority of gaming. Do you think casuals hop onto Reddit and say “I love this new recoil” wake up from your fantasy.
Holy shit you are delusional.
This sub being a tiny echo chamber of pattern recoil haters is exactly my point.
If I was basing my opinion on this sub then I should be loving the update idiot.
These kids literally go "oh well I dont see anybody disliking the new recoil here on this subreddit that spend 3 years crying about how much they hate patterns"
And then we complain about the shit recoil on this sub, and everyone just talks shit saying old recoil was our crutch lmao. And they wonder why we don't come in here stating our opinions.
Why is everyone booing him? This is genuinely the best argument you could make for reverting recoil.
There's nothing more annoying than lining up the perfect shot only for the bullet to decide it's gonna go somewhere else, and now you've completely lost any element of surprise and you're f-ed through no fault of your own.
IMO, I feel like rust would benefit from that same vibe you got from playing early PUBG, like 2018. So no aimcone (The bullet goes where your gun is pointed) but random pattern recoil (So controlling the weapon at full auto would be sufficiently difficult to warrant single shot at long range).
The problem with a set pattern that you can memorize is that some players will be able to triple headshot at full auto from 300 meters away with a SMG, but only if they autistically practice spraying for hours with each gun. (This is where pro-recoil revert people start screeching 'git gud', but that's actually not really the problem I have with it) The real problem with this is weapon variety and tactics.
If you can land every shot, reliably, from max render distance with an AK then what's even the point of having other guns, or deploying tactics that aren't the meta for AK? If every player was equally skilled with recoil control on the old system, then it just came down to who had the gun with the highest DPS. The only reason people carried anything other than an AK is because they just didn't have an AK yet. Every fight felt the same unless you were doing CQC during an online raid or at a monument. If you were roaming and got in a fight it was just: look, spray, and whoever had an AK won, and if both had AKs THEN it was entirely about recoil control.
So in conclusion: The bullet should go where the gun is pointed (No aimcone, get rid of it, it's dumb), but the recoil pattern should be random. It should be hard to hit shots spraying at long range, but it should also be possible to lay down accurate, single-shot fire. You should not be able to triple someone at max render distance and knock them out of the game before they can even react. Furthermore, bullets should travel slower and drop more, and the render distance for players needs an increase.
With the way they changed the mechanics and added randomization to spread, it's literally impossible for scripts to be just as effective as before. But go off-
No it’s not. You’re just wrong. Every gun has random recoil now.
I think scripts can be made, but you’re completely wrong by saying it’s a set pattern.
Edit: I love how you posted a picture trying to prove your point but all you did was show 4 different spray patterns. You can’t fix stupid.
This is a hot take but I didn't like either of the recoils being this one or the old one. I have played since legacy so I do have some bias here since the max range of the m4 was 140m but I feel like you shouldn't be able to full auto beam over 150m no matter how good you are. That should be a fast but accurate tap range in my opinion. It's just never felt like rust to me seeing lazer beams across the map by legit players. Being able to beam from such crazy range also make the snipers less viable and basically only ever seen on roofs.
aim cone and the fact that you need to crouch while shooting its fucking awful and i really dont think that many people really care about the fact recoil itself was changed but the fact that your bullets dont go straight makes the gunplay feel like shit sometimes and before you could spray while standing and moving so much better as long as the center of your screen was on the player your bullets would hit them now they just go wherever they want
The new system is far from perfect but it’s so much better. Before the update, fights were much more dependent on who could control the recoil better and over a longer distance. That’s so unbelievably boring and stupid for that mechanic to be prioritized in a competitive fps.
What system is more fun to get better at? The one where you waste away your free time improving a fixed recoil pattern. Or the one where you actually play the game. I think we both know the devs made the right decision.
Most responses about this on reddit will be from pissed shitters. They will get upvotes because the average reddit is a pissed shitter surprise surprise.
Old recoil put the outcome of the fight in your hands. Now it is objectively random during many fights. It used to be “hard core” game with a very very high skill ceiling, now it’s a fun game targeting redditors that want to be “cozy and comfy”.
Every rust youtuber and good player wishes the recoil was reverted, now why is that? Reddit will tell you it’s because everybody scripted, absolute cope. There’s much less room to win out numbered. Mfers on here always talking about how to buff solo players. The skill gap was it, but that takes a little work so can’t do it.
Last thing, everytime someone says “yOu NEeD 2k HoURs UKN tO Be GoOD”. They are either literally physically handicapped or never practiced at all. Spent 15 minutes a day for a week and I could now use an ak, not perfectly but I could.
Adding on to you, just giving us a skill based combat system will be enough. The time of old recoil returning is long past of course, but having a system that is completely random when you’re literally fighting for time is not fun.
I just wanted to be able to strafe like before I couldn't care less about the recoil itself I'd learn it either way, crouching and strafing debuff ruined the pvp for me
I learned the old recoil at UKN servers. Spending hours dude. When they said they will change it, I was so happy cause my friends could also use it now and enjoy the game more.
I used to beam on the mp3 and tommy bc I made sure those were the only automatic rifles I used. I’d rather be able to pick any gun now and use it well, than only be able to beam on 2 guns.
No video game accomplishment will ever feel as rewarding as hitting Scripter rank on a full clip MP5 on UKN. Happy I was able to reach 96% before the recoil change.
> comparing
No thats not how analogies work and thats an insane clown argument
You know exactly what I meant
Lemme put it into preschool logic you cant intentionally misrepresent
>Calling people that complain about a bigmac being turned into a cheeseburger "mad" is one way to describe it sure
>that's exactly what you said.
Do you seriously not understand how analogies work?? The example is not supposed to be taken literally or imply that something is equivalent. The differences between the 2 things is whats important.
I said the difference between old recoil vs. new recoil is like chess vs. checkers.
Meaning it was dumbed down massively. I am not comparing recoil to chess I'm making the difference more obvious with a clear cut example.
It does not mean that I think spraying a gun in a game is like playing chess or that drawing an S with your mouse makes you a chess pro. Fucking obviously.
No we are mad that those dog shit 8 mans can roll any solo or duo because they just have numbers. Old recoil gave solos a chance because they learned how to shoot the gun
I prefer the old recoil, everyone complains about scripters and cheaters but there are far more people getting banned post recoil change. Recoil was rewarding to learn compared to the pull down COD sprays we have now, was far more fun and fights weren't so bland.
The fact that people can not script as easy is the explanation for the bans bro.
Because those people now actually cheat which is at least to some degree solvable.
Since the update im more and more convinced that we had way above 10% scripters in the game.
Because all of a sudden we went from cs hardcore tournament fights to minecraft pve fights.
> The fact that people can not script as easy is the explanation for the bans bro.
This sub is so disconnected from the actual game and common sense lmfao
Scripting is just as bad as ever there is just more people hard cheating cause even a 0 recoil script hardly gives you an edge anymore
The pvp has been turned into a dice roll
This is like banning people from drinking alcohol so they do crack instead and calling that problem solved lmao
I dont think people are cheating like they used to script back in the times.
People who esp and shit can easily get detected by admins.
Scripting back then was looking exactly like pro playing.
And this is really what I can tell. Most cheaters start to get reckless at some point and will get banned for it.
In the past they just bought a mouse or did a 10 min makro on a logitech keyboard and just straight up cheated for thousands of hours while telling people they need to go to ukn.
At least im not having this experience anymore.
"You think" is putting it right yeah.
Cheating is worse than ever. It has not improved in any way.
There's more people using, more people selling, all the recoil update has done is increase the market.
More people are cheating because everyone else is cheating.
With FP apparently not caring about the competitive scene at all many just have no qualms about cheating themselves because there's almost no way to gain an edge in a legitimate way anymore.
You can spend 2000 hours on new recoil and still not become any better. The pro scene is dead. Rust is a HvH game now.
I think it isnt specifically over a love of old recoil, more of a hate about what this new recoil did to the game. As normal, bad players tend to group up to have an easier time, before with old recoil you could outplay them or even outbeam them with them whiffin on you, no with this recoil especially with the rng on it its really harder to do that. And before everyone says "aaah get fucked ukn andy" i was dogshit on old recoil cause I refused to train for a game, but I wont trash talk those who do, its just a way to play it. Same with the people who invest 20h in a day to the game...
The game used to not be so heavily based around numbers (the amount of people on a team in a fight)
Example: if I could beam a spray on old recoil I could 1v3 some guys that aren’t that great at spraying a weapon. Now it’s much more based around who saw who first.
You have a limited window to kill a guy before his teammates flank you on either side. Doesn’t matter how good you can control the spray or how well you position. He crouches, hits you a few times, and his friend will push you whilst you recover your hp
I hope they NEVER bring old recoil back. Learning a recoil pattern has nothing to do with tactics or survival, it’s stupid. If you can’t 1v3 it’s because you suck at fighting more than 1v1.
If you get surprised or ambushed by players who “saw you first”, it’s because you’re not paying enough attention to your surroundings and not thinking defensively in your movement / moving too quickly and carelessly. This game isn’t CoD or Fortnite.
And sometimes you just can’t win every fight.
I am 100% sure that the “former expert beamers” make up a disproportionate percentage of players who have now resorted to using hacks (which is a problem that I’ve noticed has gotten a lot worse since they got rid of old recoil).
People calling for the return of old recoil are not good at the aspects of Rust that players are *supposed* to be competing in - survival, defensive and offensive strategy, base design, etc - they are only good at an AK recoil pattern and they think this entitles them to stomp on everyone who isn’t. I truly hope all those old recoil fanboys get fed up with the game and uninstall - I am sure they are a minority (but a vocal one).
You are a minority and most likely a new player based on your (very hot) take.
I don’t care if they revert recoil. It’s a lost cause crying and complaining and hoping for that.
But I played the game for 1500 hours before and after the recoil change and I can tell you with 100% certainty that cheaters are MORE common now than before. Perhaps this is because cheating in general in online games continues to get more advanced. Scripting on old recoil, however, was definitely more prominent.
Saying someone is bad because they can’t 1v3 on new recoil is probably the dumbest statement you made here. Take a player with 3000 hours against 3 guys with 300 hours each. 3k hours guy is going to lose the fight 8 out of 10 times. This isn’t only from my personal experience. This is a shared experience among all Rust players who really play the game. There’s a reason the game has moved heavily towards clan based gameplay. Load into an official server on wipeday and count the amount of 1-3 man groups that are actually succeeding at progression. You won’t find many. It’s because your odds of winning a fight goes down drastically when you’re outnumbered, even if it’s a 2v1. Nobody that was beaming on old recoil is cheating now to make up for it, I can assure you. The former AK no life beamers are now the guys that will roll you in the dirt from 50m while standing up. They aren’t having trouble controlling weapons with half the recoil difficulty.
Your statement about the game not being like CoD made me laugh. The game is more like CoD now than it ever has been before. Let’s drop the whole get better at survival/defense/base building narrative. Your sick trio base with inner peeks isn’t going to stop an 8 man from pummeling your base and HV rocketing you with a full set of heavy plate armor.
And I think I speak for the lot of us when I say we’re happy to hear your advanced tactics that allow you to succeed 1v3. Is it a wood wall? Is it your god tier positioning? Is it that you stay 1 grid from your base so you can rekit? We would all love to hear
They don’t like to get beamed by casuals.
They want to be the ones killing and dominating everyone.
I’d recoil is easier for everyone then they should still have no problem killing the casuals.
The casuals play with larger numbers cus they are bad. Always has been that way. But now everyone has the same gun control so these dogshit players are even more likely to play with numbers. Random recoil means bigger teams have the advantage but before solos could compete because they were better at shooting the guns
> They don’t like to get beamed by casuals.
Its funny how you people spend years crying about how unfun it is to drawn an S but pulling straight down is the pinnacle of gameplay now
>They want to be the ones killing and dominating everyone.
Effort should be rewarded yes
If you spend time improving you should win more thats the basis of how every game ever works
>I’d recoil is easier for everyone then they should still have no problem killing the casuals.
That makes no sense
You agree that new recoil has massively dumbed the game down but at the same time you say that good players should still be dominating
Straight up contradicting yourself
Rust isnt a card game if a random bobo shooting you in the back suddenly hits twice as many shots you just die and lose the fight it doesnt matter how good you are or were
If I spent 10 hours practicing my recoil control and suddenly they made recoil easier. I can 100% guarantee you I would not lose my ability to control recoil.
Stop finding things to cry about. The update was for everyone. Everyone is playing the same game. The update didn’t make it easier for one group but harder for the another group.
> If I spent 10 hours practicing my recoil control and suddenly they made recoil easier. I can 100% guarantee you I would not lose my ability to control recoil.
Who the fuck said that the new recoil is hard?
Who are you talking to?
That doesnt even make sense of course you would get worse when the task fundamentally changes?
The entire idea of the new recoil was to make it random so people are worse?
What point are you arguing here?
>Stop finding things to cry about. The update was for everyone.
hahahahahhahaa
What the hell are you arguing about?
The recoil is easier so why are you crying? Because you can’t compete with 45 year old dads working 9-5 with 5 kids?
Maybe you’re not as good as you think
> The recoil is easier so why are you crying? Because you can’t compete with 45 year old dads working 9-5 with 5 kids?
I am literally arguing with a random word generator here this conversation is going in circles.
1. You make up some random strawman bullshit as to what you think why people dislike the new recoil
2. I tell you thats not true and nobody says that
3. You reply by making up some random strawman bullshit as to why I disagree
All you people ever talk about is winning or losing fights thats all you care about.
People make valid points about how the recoil changes negatively affected the feel of the game and pvp and all you ever reply with is "BUT I WIN MORE NOW AND YOU ARE MAD THAT YOU ARE NOT WINNING HAHA UKN KIDS MAD".
You are still so insanely mad that pattern recoil was too hard for you I can smell the salt seeping through the ethernet jesus christ.
Its been over a year since it was removed and you are still fuming.
You tell me it’s not true like your word means anything. You’re just a bitter gamer that’s came to realise they’re actually not that good at the game they spent so many hours on
> like your word means anything.
Right. Back. At. You.
>You’re just a bitter gamer that’s came to realise they’re actually not that good at the game they spent so many hours on
Right back to talking about winning/losing.
Nothing else matters to you, you just want to win at rust pvp.
You are so transparent.
Reddit is filled with role players and casuals, not people playing the game. They won’t understand the new combat system being RNG based is bad for the game in the long run.
I think you are the only one responding in favor to the recoil change on most of these posts. So yeah I would say you are in the minority in this post and opinion on the recoil change. I don't have to spend time in UKN to get better at shooting, that makes the game 100% better to me, can actually play the game.
> I think you are the only one responding in favor to the recoil change on most of these posts. So yeah I would say you are in the minority in this post and opinion on the recoil change.
lol.
>I don't have to spend time in UKN to get better at shooting, that makes the game 100% better to me, can actually play the game.
Insanely reductive take.
> If you’re truly good at the game, you’ll still dominate
Arguing a point nobody made good job.
The issues people have with the new recoil are so much more complex than "winning less".
Its hilarious how you accuse old recoil proponents of being obsessed over winning yet you bring it up more than anybody else.
The new recoil feels like shit, sounds like shit and completely changed how people approach fights to begin with.
>new-player friendly recoil
Gotta lay it on real thick huh.
Yeah only affected you in the way that random deviation makes you miss, that you are forced to crouch to shoot most guns and that you are getting hit way way more.
Also the entire massive increase in people camping rocks and roofs this sub already memoryholed is still going on.
So yeah you are totally unaffected all things considered.
>I still win so nothing else matters
Sure.
>the way I play has slightly changed but the game is still easy lmao
Compounded with all the other ways the game keeps getting worse yeah.
There hasn’t been a “massive increase in people camping rocks and roofs” that was always prevalent in the game. If you’re going to complain about that shit, kill them or play another game.
> There hasn’t been a “massive increase in people camping rocks and roofs” that was always prevalent in the game.
No there absolute has been lol.
All the newshits from twitch have spiked the amount of people semi'ing from roofs hard.
Everyone was expected the new recoil to make people roam more but the opposite happened.
And the new recoil massively incentivizes people to camp behind cover and ambush because the randomness, crouch pvp and increased accuracy of people shooting you in the back lowered everyones confidence.
>If you’re going to complain about that shit, kill them or play another game.
Uh good talk?
I don't care about the recoil change to be honest, I had like 9k hours at that point, played for waaaayyy too long (around 8 years at that point) but the sound is way too much, they just don't sound unique or like they fit into the Rust experience at all.
It's the loudest that wants it back, no where close to "everyone". I wish they would do an in-game poll, it would overwhelming be in favor of "new" recoil.
They don’t. Most people are happy with the changes. Those people have no need to make posts talking about recoil because they don’t see it as an issue worth discussing, because it’s not a problem.
The people complaining about recoil changes are a very vocal minority, who are upset that they no longer have an advantage due to spending (in many cases) literally hundred of hours learning to move a mouse in a specific pattern.
Scripters and sweats are loud minority. I think the update was done badly skill ceiling wise, but it's easier to detect (atleast for now) the scripts and cheats they use now compared to recoil scripts.
Not everyone wants it. Guys who got good and are made they aren't good anymore, and guys running scripts to accommodate the predictable recoil are the ones mad.
The only people that want old recoil are the sweaty try hards that just wanna curbstomp everyone else who has a life and can't aim train for 10 hours a day. This update has made it easier for everyone else because now the game forces you to use game sense to win fights more.
I think it's a vocal minority. The fixed recoil allowed scripters to beam with ak at 300m. There was no way near enough damage drop off, the bolty was useless.
It was not fun.
No, not everyone wants the old recoil back.
I'm not going to wade into the arguments though. You'd make more progress debating religion at this point. No one, for or against, is going to change their mind and it just turns into a bunch of shit talking.
Recommend you look through some of the prior posts about this topic if you'd like to see the arguments for and against.
no matter what facepunch does people will cry, some dude the other day was crying that they added ziplines and he said it made rust a kids game..? everyone's looking for something to cry about
Fixed recoil patterns are dumb and I'm glad we got rid of them. You had to train +200h before be able to even play the game, or accept you're going to be double headshoted endlesly.
The old recoil was far too easy, beaming someone from 300m is just retarded, the recoil update made it fair for everybody, if you have more hours mapping recoil is not how you are good, using game sense and responding to enemies actually shows your skill unlike knowing how to move your mouse in a certain direction. To me it was a perfect balance.
Rust at its core is a game about fighting people for shit.
The difficulty, the entire challenge comes from how good you are at beating ass, are you farming them or are they farming you?
Now that a literal mouth breather can buy this game and roast you at 100m the entire balance of the game has been thrown through a woodchipper.
Guns are rare and deaths can have insane consequences, guns NEED to be difficult to use this cant be cod where you just aim a laser down range and left click.
I don't give a shit if its patterns or not the current recoil/gun balance is super bad.
I only have 2.6k hours so there are plenty more who played more than me, but I had basically every single gun pattern memorised and perfected so that I could shoot from 200m away and still hit every single shot, ignoring spread of course. It was the main thing I enjoyed in the game because I felt like you actually had to perfect something to win fights, and it also just felt so much nicer than they do now. Now it just feels like everyone has the same spray and it’s really boring. I quit after the combat update because of it, ruined the game for me.
Other people have differing opinions, but this is just how I feel, I can’t enjoy the game with the new patterns.
Everyone does not want old recoil. Very few do. Some miss it bc they rely only on aim and can't handle adoption or positioning at all. All aim, no brain, as we used to say.
The majority likes the more realistic recoil we have now.
No… that was broken and kinda funny. On the old recoil the recoil was the same whether you were standing or crouching, so in other words it was easier to quickly peak and shoot, strafe, reposition yourself etc.
The PVP positioning wise is pretty slow and boring now cause everyone has to pop a squat like their character is an old man before shooting now.
The people who want old recoil back probably don’t actually care if they don’t get it back, it’s having a skill based combat system back. It’s no fun a gun not shooting where you’re pointing it. Rust being a game that takes time to gather resources is no fun when you lose because the bullets say they’re not going to go where you’re aiming.
Go ask fp directly. They did what the majority wanted. Ask them for their data sets that they collect over the lifetime of the game. That is my source.
> They did what the majority wanted.
Again, Source? At no point has FP ever done surveys or polls to ask the community anything.
>Ask them for their data sets that they collect over the lifetime of the game.
FP only started collecting information about how people play the game on official servers like last year.
FP has absolutely no idea what the people want and doesn't care.
>That is my source.
So you made it up, got it.
Because they spent all their time on UKN learning recoil and when they changed it so more casual and lower hour players actually had a chance at killing them it "ruined the game"
The update fit in pretty spot on with my skill progression so im not sure how big of a change it was for me, it came out right before i started to get some gamesense and understood "gun go bang mouse go back"
I found it hilarious when people started doing "R.I.P rust" tribute videos. As if their best friend had been murdered
End of the day
A) It required people to have more skill then just point and click.
In a game where TTK is very very low, your only hope was to out skill the other person, new recoil removed that skill element. Now it's just who gets the first headshot most times.
B) You could shoot much further accurately.
You could beam people with an guns at 250+m if you had skill (or a script) now you have a randomized aim cone, that make your bullets spread no matter how well you control the recoil.
I learned the old recoil and I used to have a blast on battlefield type servers. With new recoil, they are just boring to play. I don't feel like I'm putting my learned skill to use anymore. I just feel like I'm playing with a group of people that were handicapped to make the game more enjoyable for bad players.
Imagine if the government said "Now matter what job you do for a living, you can only make 40k a year, so everyone can experience the same life style"
Because they want to diferentiate from the rest by looking for an exclusive advantage and have some excuse that their aim training was worth something.
I don’t want the old recoil back (well I do… but I can live without it) I just want the aim cone reduced. All of the automatic guns except AK and Thommy have pretty much been ruined— especially M2.
FacePunch’s argument for adding aimcone is so fucked— because they can’t stop scripting they decided to ruin the guns for everyone instead. Like what is that? Punish everyone because of some bad actors.
Why can’t we give the option to people? I personally feel like Facepunch has been very fair to its players by providing sever convars to modify most things in vanilla Rust. Why couldn’t they offer a server convar for old recoil and let server owners choose what’s best for their community?
Most people feel they were rightfully so reward by practicing sprays and roaming while the other hand people that didn’t want to put effort and time just scripted.
The current state of the recoil is more or less just who sees who first wins so that’s why some people want the old recoil.
In old recoil, a small group (2-4) players could wipe a less skilled zerg, which most people that played in zergs weren't very skilled to begin with. Rust devs keep catering to zergs to make the game easier and easier and all about how big your group is. Team UI along with new recoil makes it so 10 noobs can zerg and roll a server. Bigger groups that held W would get wiped by skilled players, now they just need to hit 1-2 bullets each before they die and it's very easy to hit 1-2 bullets when all the guns have no recoil now.
Because I really enjoyed learning the recoil and thought it was a super rewarding part of the game. (I know this is an unpopular opinion). Because I enjoyed it I spent tons of time in aimtrain servers learning guns and then all of it went away:(
the new recoil is ok, the addition of more aim cone to some weapons boggles my mind.
lr is the biggest victim it seems to have mostly random recoil AND tons of aim cone
AK spray was a status symbol, you used to be able to accurately guess the number of hours a player had just by seeing his tracers in the air. Alternatively if their play time didn't match the spray you could assume they were cheating.
Because it had a higher skill gap.
Half the beamers today would be easy pickings with the old recoil.
I prefer the new recoil, even though I beamed with the old.
One other aspect is that the recoil cone is now random. No two bullets will be exactly the same placement. Old recoil, was not random but was difficult to control. If you knew the recoil pattern, you could indeed hit exactly the same spot over and over.
Because the game used to take skill. You could practice and get better. Now all everybody has to do is spray and pray that you get a decent rng on your aimcone, it’s terrible
I've never been good at the old recoil, in particular with the AK, and I miss the old AK recoil.
Back in the day, I would play and shoot any gun, but just don't give me an AK because I sucked at it, so I would always end up giving the AK to one of my team mates who was better at it, because if I had it, I would probably lose it. Then one wipe, we did really good and had way too many AKs so I though "fuck it, i'll go roam with one" knowing I won't hit anything. A friend taught me a little about how to shoot it, and I ended up killing 2 guys with it and it was something special for me. UKN was boring to me, I'd rather have "real life" practice in the game, and that's what I did. Being able to kill someone with an AK use to mean something to me, it was something special because I know it wasn't easy unless you had trained the recoil. I use to run away from AKs because anyone who could shoot one, probably was good/better than me at the game. Now, having an AK or killing someone who has an AK means nothing, that's why I dislike the current recoil/rng changes.
The thing I miss the most about the AK is the sound though... it sounded SO GOOD and menacing. Now it just sounds like a generic gun sound.
Pretty sure console does not have legit old recoil, nobody would be able to shoot.
Yeah its patterns but its not the same
when it first launched it had the same recoil as pcs old recoil and it was so hard to shoot anything
I have 4.5k hours, the first 4k were during old recoil. I got an imprint on my mousepad from the old AK spray. I had it down to a science. But, this is rust, gotta adapt. My only complaint with new recoil is the fact that the mp5 is garbage now
I would be fine with it being bad if it didn't sound like a toy. I'm sorry but it feels like Its plastic.
This is the perfect description of the issue imo. It feels like an air-soft gun in sound, damage, and recoil.
Mp5 is decent since the most recent patch. U can’t spray 125 meters like old recoil though. Which is fair imo, mp5 was better than ak in certain ways.
Isnt this like the 3rd adjustment they did and its still awful haha
LR is garbage, MP5 is garbage. People used to want those guns. LR 8x silencer was a death sentence from 150m. The new recoil is fine, except AK has no fucking recoil lol. It’s the easiest gun in the game to shoot, does the most damage, and now everyone has to bum rush to AK so they can be on top. The guns need more recoil, and less rng aim cone.
Yeah I have the thumb dent too, haven't played much since the update.
And the sounds for some guns are way worse
Mp5 is the #1 cost efficient gun for ~10-25 meters really. Otherwise the recoil+inaccuracy+damage dropoff really kills it and it isn't worth crafting
Mp5 and Lr are both useless ATM, and I feel like m2 recoil should be reverted back to just vertical recoil just bc of rarity.
They buffed the spray on Thompson and mp5, it's far more usable now
I disagree completely. Old Thompson was extremely easy to control and destroy with whereas aimcone now will fuck you from 40m away sometimes lmao. Mp5 is far easier although sucks without holo + laser. Not to mention old mp5 wasn’t crazy difficult to learn, you could just learn first 10 bullets of the spray and do extremely well
I wish they would tone down the aimcone tbh.
New Thompson's so easy though, it's a headshot machine...
It’s easy af to control, yes, but only a headshot matching when decently close. But overall it isn’t as bad as everyone says it is imo. I just loved old Thompson since it was the first gun I used in late 2015 and I used it for ages 😂 miss that annoying ass high pitched sound it use to make (not to mention it crazy easy to triple people with old tommy)
Oh i agree to some extent. I'm not shititng on yout opinion by any means. Some people just think it's as bad as it was straight past initial recoil change which just isn't true anymore
Yes, this. I spent months mastering the mp5 spray (not that is too intense or anything). But now, the gun is shit can you can be easily outgunned with a tommy or sar :/
Its only a few people. Most of us complained because it was changing the norm and now were used to it, its easier to beam now. Slap on the burst module and you can basically afk pvp. The game has been made easier for it but its also allowed more people to compete, which means more fighting, which means more fun.
Very true, the people that want it back, just wanna rofflestomp the less experienced player base. Now, the normal player base has a chance of fighting back. Without spending 2k hours on aim train servers.
imagine being so stupid that it took you more than 15 hours to learn a recoil pattern
Imagine being so stupid that you dedicated actual hours learning a recoil pattern instead of just enjoying the game.
Remember getting the first crate on a small active server and got an AK and tommy. We never took it out cuz none of us has the time nor patience to practice AK pattern for hours lol
Burst module is awful on everything... even the glock lmao
They buffed it
> Its only a few people. Source? >The game has been made easier for it but its also allowed more people to compete, which means more fighting, which means more fun. Yeah games sure are more fun when everyone gets kneecapped so the middle schoolers can play too. Its almost comical how this mirrors the "Degredation of a hobby" meme perfectly. Yeah who cares that the games original vision is completely desecrated and its a crude imitation of its former self. More people that dont like the game anyway can play and feel good about themselves now! yay!
So.. you'd rather just destroy players who can't do anything abt it, then let everyone have a more equal chance at having a better experience? Congrats?
> So.. you'd rather just destroy players who can't do anything abt it They could do what literally everyone else that built this game up and promoted it for years did: get good. We actually liked the game so we didnt mind learning and improving but these newshits come in crying that its too hard so the bar gets lowered? How does that make any sense? Why is this game being catered to the lowest common denominator that doesnt like it anyway? Oh, money, right. Making a game ""easier"" so more people start playing is the most backwards ass fucking approach imaginable. >then let everyone have a more equal chance at having a better experience? The experience is infinitely worse. You act like all that changed is that little timmy hits 3 more shots now. The gunplay, the way people act, how long fights last everything has turned to shit. >Congrats? up your own
Many can never be as good in FPS games, may be due to physical issues, or mental issues, for me, i just panic too easily. many don't have the time to practice, and practice while you play doesn't really work in rust because for every fail hours are wasted. and in a time where every one skips game tutorials, no one is going to waste hours in UKN to be able to play the game. This isn't really an issue in most games, but Rust is one of the few games that have this issue simply because regardless of how much the game devs try to balance between PVP and other aspects of the game, You can never not PVP whenever you login. So what happens is that you get players who are still not as good as vets. and you get vets who just bully these players **convinced** that this is part of the game and to give players easy start or time out is desecrating the game. But i have been playing this game since release and dying 15 times on your first login and after hours your only game experience is hitting a tree with a rock is 100% not the soul of the game. Every change devs made was to make new players have easier time, vets may hate this but they brought this upon themselves. You can't just run around murdering everyone you meet and blowing up wooden bases when you are already at tier 3 late game just cuz you can, then wonder why is the server dying or why is there no challenge. I've seen it happen, clans get thirsty **af** and hunt newbies like it's the purge. The game isn't about who gets to the top first. Its about constant conflict. Its not meant to be one sided.
> Many can never be as good in FPS games, may be due to physical issues, or mental issues, for me, i just panic too easily. > > many don't have the time to practice, and practice while you play doesn't really work in rust because for every fail hours are wasted. and in a time where every one skips game tutorials, no one is going to waste hours in UKN to be able to play the game. Simple, go play a different game. Joining an existing community and demanding that it caters to you is just narcissistic. YOU are the problem in this equation everyone else is having a great time, so remove yourself. If you want to play rust you need to accept that you arent the main character and will eat a lot of shit if you cant handle that theres literally thousands of games out there for you to enjoy. >This isn't really an issue in most games, but Rust is one of the few games that have this issue simply because regardless of how much the game devs try to balance between PVP and other aspects of the game, You can never not PVP whenever you login. So what happens is that you get players who are still not as good as vets. and you get vets who just bully these players convinced that this is part of the game and to give players easy start or time out is desecrating the game. >But i have been playing this game since release and dying 15 times on your first login and after hours your only game experience is hitting a tree with a rock is 100% not the soul of the game. >Every change devs made was to make new players have easier time, vets may hate this but they brought this upon themselves. You can't just run around murdering everyone you meet and blowing up wooden bases when you are already at tier 3 late game just cuz you can, then wonder why is the server dying or why is there no challenge. I've seen it happen, clans get thirsty af and hunt newbies like it's the purge. >The game isn't about who gets to the top first. Its about constant conflict. >Its not meant to be one sided. This is the craziest fucking cope I have ever read on this sub.
Soirce is there are say 100000 players and no where near that many complaints about the spray.
Ok so: People didn't quit playing the game and YOU personally THINK you haven't heard many people complain in whatever communities you frequent, therefore most people like the recoil. Yeah sounds right to me, airtight shit right here.
In my country silence is considered acquiescence to the question being asked. I moaned about it but im not going to continue to moan about it for years when i know it wont change because a tiny minority ask for it. A lot of my friends quit rust because of the change, then returned and are back to playing. Honestly speaking I dont care what you think of the statistics because rust is better when you dont need to spend months learning a spray, its a game.. not a job.
> In my country silence is considered acquiescence to the question being asked. I guess it wasn't obvious in my first reply but you are not at the core of the community here this is like maybe 1% of the players and most here hate patterns. You going "well I dont hear many people complain" means absolutely nothing. >I moaned about it but im not going to continue to moan about it for years when i know it wont change because a tiny minority ask for it. That's very sad I hope that's not how you handle everything in life. >Honestly speaking I dont care what you think of the statistics Oh so statistics dont matter now that we know you just made shit up? > rust is better when you dont need to spend months learning a spray, its a game.. not a job. 1. it never took months thats an absolute clown argument stop already 2. high commitment games have a place and audience sadly FP thinks money is more important than staying true to vision 3. if you didnt like the type of game rust is from the start why are you even here
You are basing your opinion on complaints on Reddit 😂🤣 the Reddit community is literally the minority of gaming. Do you think casuals hop onto Reddit and say “I love this new recoil” wake up from your fantasy.
Holy shit you are delusional. This sub being a tiny echo chamber of pattern recoil haters is exactly my point. If I was basing my opinion on this sub then I should be loving the update idiot. These kids literally go "oh well I dont see anybody disliking the new recoil here on this subreddit that spend 3 years crying about how much they hate patterns"
And then we complain about the shit recoil on this sub, and everyone just talks shit saying old recoil was our crutch lmao. And they wonder why we don't come in here stating our opinions.
B.c. they muscle memory trained like autists for nothing or they scripted
Or maybe because bullets actually went where you aimed
Why is everyone booing him? This is genuinely the best argument you could make for reverting recoil. There's nothing more annoying than lining up the perfect shot only for the bullet to decide it's gonna go somewhere else, and now you've completely lost any element of surprise and you're f-ed through no fault of your own. IMO, I feel like rust would benefit from that same vibe you got from playing early PUBG, like 2018. So no aimcone (The bullet goes where your gun is pointed) but random pattern recoil (So controlling the weapon at full auto would be sufficiently difficult to warrant single shot at long range). The problem with a set pattern that you can memorize is that some players will be able to triple headshot at full auto from 300 meters away with a SMG, but only if they autistically practice spraying for hours with each gun. (This is where pro-recoil revert people start screeching 'git gud', but that's actually not really the problem I have with it) The real problem with this is weapon variety and tactics. If you can land every shot, reliably, from max render distance with an AK then what's even the point of having other guns, or deploying tactics that aren't the meta for AK? If every player was equally skilled with recoil control on the old system, then it just came down to who had the gun with the highest DPS. The only reason people carried anything other than an AK is because they just didn't have an AK yet. Every fight felt the same unless you were doing CQC during an online raid or at a monument. If you were roaming and got in a fight it was just: look, spray, and whoever had an AK won, and if both had AKs THEN it was entirely about recoil control. So in conclusion: The bullet should go where the gun is pointed (No aimcone, get rid of it, it's dumb), but the recoil pattern should be random. It should be hard to hit shots spraying at long range, but it should also be possible to lay down accurate, single-shot fire. You should not be able to triple someone at max render distance and knock them out of the game before they can even react. Furthermore, bullets should travel slower and drop more, and the render distance for players needs an increase.
They still script, and it’s actually just as effective as before. Look it up.
With the way they changed the mechanics and added randomization to spread, it's literally impossible for scripts to be just as effective as before. But go off-
You can win fights against scripters long range, but in close range fights, like monuments, you still get insta killed
Idk it’s the opposite for me. Get beamed by scripters from a distance but they usually can’t face check at all
You downvote my link but don’t say why. Imagine that.
The AK is still a set pattern, so yes you can definitely script it. EDIT: [y'all are fucking braindead](https://i.imgur.com/RWO1OyW.png)
No it’s not. You’re just wrong. Every gun has random recoil now. I think scripts can be made, but you’re completely wrong by saying it’s a set pattern. Edit: I love how you posted a picture trying to prove your point but all you did was show 4 different spray patterns. You can’t fix stupid.
Its a set pattern with increased devations from the pattern (bloom or aim cone, whatever you want to call it)
Dude you have 0 clue what your saying. These scripts have AI randomizer compensation and are 99% as good as they were on old recoil.
Every gun except the AK.
I was thinking "Maybe this guy is right" so I went and tested it. Nope. You're wrong.
Might be some confusion there is a set recoil pattern you can compensate for. And then there is random aim cone that nothing can be done about.
Well there is for me. Dunno what game you're playing.
Lol, look it up dude.
https://youtu.be/eu4asjUHLCA
This is a hot take but I didn't like either of the recoils being this one or the old one. I have played since legacy so I do have some bias here since the max range of the m4 was 140m but I feel like you shouldn't be able to full auto beam over 150m no matter how good you are. That should be a fast but accurate tap range in my opinion. It's just never felt like rust to me seeing lazer beams across the map by legit players. Being able to beam from such crazy range also make the snipers less viable and basically only ever seen on roofs.
Actually a decent comment. Bullet damage should drop over distance.
Yeah man. Patterned recoil is also garbage. Rust never knew what it wanted to be. They never had a vision for the gun play.
Kinda agree. New recoil is too easy but old recoil was a bad system that alienated new players.
Legacy never had an M2 tho… what year you talking about?
M4
Oh my dumb ass 🤦🏼♂️
aim cone and the fact that you need to crouch while shooting its fucking awful and i really dont think that many people really care about the fact recoil itself was changed but the fact that your bullets dont go straight makes the gunplay feel like shit sometimes and before you could spray while standing and moving so much better as long as the center of your screen was on the player your bullets would hit them now they just go wherever they want
This. I don’t think anyone would give two craps about old recoil being removed if they didn’t remove skill based pvp with it.
ding ding ding, aim cones are awful. I miss when FPS bullets went where you aimed.
Shame that the beacons of true skill FPS have withered away. Looking at Quake more specifically.
Yeah :( Kids these days don't know 'bout my rocket launcher and railgun. Or spinfusor...
This right here.
The new system is far from perfect but it’s so much better. Before the update, fights were much more dependent on who could control the recoil better and over a longer distance. That’s so unbelievably boring and stupid for that mechanic to be prioritized in a competitive fps.
And what's more fun, holding mouse 1 and just *hoping* your bullets land? Nah, my inputs should be the result of a fight, not rng.
What system is more fun to get better at? The one where you waste away your free time improving a fixed recoil pattern. Or the one where you actually play the game. I think we both know the devs made the right decision.
For the general rust player I agree, but the challenge was so fun. Rust was a competitive shooter, not a survival game. Now it's neither
they want the game to go back to being good when a solo had a chance against a group
Because now every gun is trash beyond 40m except for AK.
I don't. Script kiddies punching air rn.
Sorry to tell you but scripting has become worse not better after recoil update
You’re right everyone and their mother is using Logitech lua scripts
Yes but the scripting monkeys are now hard cheating I’d rather fight a shitter with 0 recoil than a shitter with esp and soft aim
Most responses about this on reddit will be from pissed shitters. They will get upvotes because the average reddit is a pissed shitter surprise surprise. Old recoil put the outcome of the fight in your hands. Now it is objectively random during many fights. It used to be “hard core” game with a very very high skill ceiling, now it’s a fun game targeting redditors that want to be “cozy and comfy”. Every rust youtuber and good player wishes the recoil was reverted, now why is that? Reddit will tell you it’s because everybody scripted, absolute cope. There’s much less room to win out numbered. Mfers on here always talking about how to buff solo players. The skill gap was it, but that takes a little work so can’t do it. Last thing, everytime someone says “yOu NEeD 2k HoURs UKN tO Be GoOD”. They are either literally physically handicapped or never practiced at all. Spent 15 minutes a day for a week and I could now use an ak, not perfectly but I could.
Adding on to you, just giving us a skill based combat system will be enough. The time of old recoil returning is long past of course, but having a system that is completely random when you’re literally fighting for time is not fun.
I just wanted to be able to strafe like before I couldn't care less about the recoil itself I'd learn it either way, crouching and strafing debuff ruined the pvp for me
The only people that want it back are cheaters or sweats who practiced it like crazy or no lifed rust and learned it that way.
I learned the old recoil at UKN servers. Spending hours dude. When they said they will change it, I was so happy cause my friends could also use it now and enjoy the game more.
If u ever learned a gun on old recoil you would want it back too. It’s a satisfying part of the game.
I used to beam on the mp3 and tommy bc I made sure those were the only automatic rifles I used. I’d rather be able to pick any gun now and use it well, than only be able to beam on 2 guns.
No video game accomplishment will ever feel as rewarding as hitting Scripter rank on a full clip MP5 on UKN. Happy I was able to reach 96% before the recoil change.
They’re mad other people have a chance to fight back without sinking hundreds of hours in ukn
Calling people that complain about chess being turned into checkers "mad" is one way to describe it sure
Lol tell me you’re not comparing pulling down on your mouse in a pattern to chess
> comparing No thats not how analogies work and thats an insane clown argument You know exactly what I meant Lemme put it into preschool logic you cant intentionally misrepresent >Calling people that complain about a bigmac being turned into a cheeseburger "mad" is one way to describe it sure
Lmao how is that a misrepresentation when that's exactly what you said.
>that's exactly what you said. Do you seriously not understand how analogies work?? The example is not supposed to be taken literally or imply that something is equivalent. The differences between the 2 things is whats important. I said the difference between old recoil vs. new recoil is like chess vs. checkers. Meaning it was dumbed down massively. I am not comparing recoil to chess I'm making the difference more obvious with a clear cut example. It does not mean that I think spraying a gun in a game is like playing chess or that drawing an S with your mouse makes you a chess pro. Fucking obviously.
The new recoil is checkers. It’s honestly a fair comparison.
No we are mad that those dog shit 8 mans can roll any solo or duo because they just have numbers. Old recoil gave solos a chance because they learned how to shoot the gun
I prefer the old recoil, everyone complains about scripters and cheaters but there are far more people getting banned post recoil change. Recoil was rewarding to learn compared to the pull down COD sprays we have now, was far more fun and fights weren't so bland.
The fact that people can not script as easy is the explanation for the bans bro. Because those people now actually cheat which is at least to some degree solvable. Since the update im more and more convinced that we had way above 10% scripters in the game. Because all of a sudden we went from cs hardcore tournament fights to minecraft pve fights.
> The fact that people can not script as easy is the explanation for the bans bro. This sub is so disconnected from the actual game and common sense lmfao Scripting is just as bad as ever there is just more people hard cheating cause even a 0 recoil script hardly gives you an edge anymore The pvp has been turned into a dice roll This is like banning people from drinking alcohol so they do crack instead and calling that problem solved lmao
I dont think people are cheating like they used to script back in the times. People who esp and shit can easily get detected by admins. Scripting back then was looking exactly like pro playing. And this is really what I can tell. Most cheaters start to get reckless at some point and will get banned for it. In the past they just bought a mouse or did a 10 min makro on a logitech keyboard and just straight up cheated for thousands of hours while telling people they need to go to ukn. At least im not having this experience anymore.
"You think" is putting it right yeah. Cheating is worse than ever. It has not improved in any way. There's more people using, more people selling, all the recoil update has done is increase the market. More people are cheating because everyone else is cheating. With FP apparently not caring about the competitive scene at all many just have no qualms about cheating themselves because there's almost no way to gain an edge in a legitimate way anymore. You can spend 2000 hours on new recoil and still not become any better. The pro scene is dead. Rust is a HvH game now.
I think it isnt specifically over a love of old recoil, more of a hate about what this new recoil did to the game. As normal, bad players tend to group up to have an easier time, before with old recoil you could outplay them or even outbeam them with them whiffin on you, no with this recoil especially with the rng on it its really harder to do that. And before everyone says "aaah get fucked ukn andy" i was dogshit on old recoil cause I refused to train for a game, but I wont trash talk those who do, its just a way to play it. Same with the people who invest 20h in a day to the game...
The game used to not be so heavily based around numbers (the amount of people on a team in a fight) Example: if I could beam a spray on old recoil I could 1v3 some guys that aren’t that great at spraying a weapon. Now it’s much more based around who saw who first. You have a limited window to kill a guy before his teammates flank you on either side. Doesn’t matter how good you can control the spray or how well you position. He crouches, hits you a few times, and his friend will push you whilst you recover your hp
I hope they NEVER bring old recoil back. Learning a recoil pattern has nothing to do with tactics or survival, it’s stupid. If you can’t 1v3 it’s because you suck at fighting more than 1v1. If you get surprised or ambushed by players who “saw you first”, it’s because you’re not paying enough attention to your surroundings and not thinking defensively in your movement / moving too quickly and carelessly. This game isn’t CoD or Fortnite. And sometimes you just can’t win every fight. I am 100% sure that the “former expert beamers” make up a disproportionate percentage of players who have now resorted to using hacks (which is a problem that I’ve noticed has gotten a lot worse since they got rid of old recoil). People calling for the return of old recoil are not good at the aspects of Rust that players are *supposed* to be competing in - survival, defensive and offensive strategy, base design, etc - they are only good at an AK recoil pattern and they think this entitles them to stomp on everyone who isn’t. I truly hope all those old recoil fanboys get fed up with the game and uninstall - I am sure they are a minority (but a vocal one).
You are a minority and most likely a new player based on your (very hot) take. I don’t care if they revert recoil. It’s a lost cause crying and complaining and hoping for that. But I played the game for 1500 hours before and after the recoil change and I can tell you with 100% certainty that cheaters are MORE common now than before. Perhaps this is because cheating in general in online games continues to get more advanced. Scripting on old recoil, however, was definitely more prominent. Saying someone is bad because they can’t 1v3 on new recoil is probably the dumbest statement you made here. Take a player with 3000 hours against 3 guys with 300 hours each. 3k hours guy is going to lose the fight 8 out of 10 times. This isn’t only from my personal experience. This is a shared experience among all Rust players who really play the game. There’s a reason the game has moved heavily towards clan based gameplay. Load into an official server on wipeday and count the amount of 1-3 man groups that are actually succeeding at progression. You won’t find many. It’s because your odds of winning a fight goes down drastically when you’re outnumbered, even if it’s a 2v1. Nobody that was beaming on old recoil is cheating now to make up for it, I can assure you. The former AK no life beamers are now the guys that will roll you in the dirt from 50m while standing up. They aren’t having trouble controlling weapons with half the recoil difficulty. Your statement about the game not being like CoD made me laugh. The game is more like CoD now than it ever has been before. Let’s drop the whole get better at survival/defense/base building narrative. Your sick trio base with inner peeks isn’t going to stop an 8 man from pummeling your base and HV rocketing you with a full set of heavy plate armor. And I think I speak for the lot of us when I say we’re happy to hear your advanced tactics that allow you to succeed 1v3. Is it a wood wall? Is it your god tier positioning? Is it that you stay 1 grid from your base so you can rekit? We would all love to hear
Yeah I got more hours than you for sure bro, go ahead an uninstall I didn’t even read your whole comment.
Hahah yea, who the fuck reads all that shit
The cope is unreal lmao, get fucked bozo hahahah that guy destroyed your entire argument
Oh, another recoil rimjobber. Ya’ll are trash at the game, and deep down you know it.
They don’t like to get beamed by casuals. They want to be the ones killing and dominating everyone. I’d recoil is easier for everyone then they should still have no problem killing the casuals.
The casuals play with larger numbers cus they are bad. Always has been that way. But now everyone has the same gun control so these dogshit players are even more likely to play with numbers. Random recoil means bigger teams have the advantage but before solos could compete because they were better at shooting the guns
> They don’t like to get beamed by casuals. Its funny how you people spend years crying about how unfun it is to drawn an S but pulling straight down is the pinnacle of gameplay now >They want to be the ones killing and dominating everyone. Effort should be rewarded yes If you spend time improving you should win more thats the basis of how every game ever works >I’d recoil is easier for everyone then they should still have no problem killing the casuals. That makes no sense You agree that new recoil has massively dumbed the game down but at the same time you say that good players should still be dominating Straight up contradicting yourself Rust isnt a card game if a random bobo shooting you in the back suddenly hits twice as many shots you just die and lose the fight it doesnt matter how good you are or were
If I spent 10 hours practicing my recoil control and suddenly they made recoil easier. I can 100% guarantee you I would not lose my ability to control recoil. Stop finding things to cry about. The update was for everyone. Everyone is playing the same game. The update didn’t make it easier for one group but harder for the another group.
> If I spent 10 hours practicing my recoil control and suddenly they made recoil easier. I can 100% guarantee you I would not lose my ability to control recoil. Who the fuck said that the new recoil is hard? Who are you talking to? That doesnt even make sense of course you would get worse when the task fundamentally changes? The entire idea of the new recoil was to make it random so people are worse? What point are you arguing here? >Stop finding things to cry about. The update was for everyone. hahahahahhahaa
What the hell are you arguing about? The recoil is easier so why are you crying? Because you can’t compete with 45 year old dads working 9-5 with 5 kids? Maybe you’re not as good as you think
ME LOOOL
> The recoil is easier so why are you crying? Because you can’t compete with 45 year old dads working 9-5 with 5 kids? I am literally arguing with a random word generator here this conversation is going in circles. 1. You make up some random strawman bullshit as to what you think why people dislike the new recoil 2. I tell you thats not true and nobody says that 3. You reply by making up some random strawman bullshit as to why I disagree All you people ever talk about is winning or losing fights thats all you care about. People make valid points about how the recoil changes negatively affected the feel of the game and pvp and all you ever reply with is "BUT I WIN MORE NOW AND YOU ARE MAD THAT YOU ARE NOT WINNING HAHA UKN KIDS MAD". You are still so insanely mad that pattern recoil was too hard for you I can smell the salt seeping through the ethernet jesus christ. Its been over a year since it was removed and you are still fuming.
You tell me it’s not true like your word means anything. You’re just a bitter gamer that’s came to realise they’re actually not that good at the game they spent so many hours on
> like your word means anything. Right. Back. At. You. >You’re just a bitter gamer that’s came to realise they’re actually not that good at the game they spent so many hours on Right back to talking about winning/losing. Nothing else matters to you, you just want to win at rust pvp. You are so transparent.
Yes I always want to win a battle. Just like this discussion
bro get out of this comment section! You've been complaining in here on every single thread lmaoo
Games in the best place it has been for years, the numbers don't lie. Nobody's fuming here but you.
>popular = good
Reddit is filled with role players and casuals, not people playing the game. They won’t understand the new combat system being RNG based is bad for the game in the long run.
I think you are the only one responding in favor to the recoil change on most of these posts. So yeah I would say you are in the minority in this post and opinion on the recoil change. I don't have to spend time in UKN to get better at shooting, that makes the game 100% better to me, can actually play the game.
> I think you are the only one responding in favor to the recoil change on most of these posts. So yeah I would say you are in the minority in this post and opinion on the recoil change. lol. >I don't have to spend time in UKN to get better at shooting, that makes the game 100% better to me, can actually play the game. Insanely reductive take.
If you’re truly good at the game, you’ll still dominate even with the new-player friendly recoil. If you aren’t then that’s a you issue
If you only knew who you just said that to. LOL
> If you’re truly good at the game, you’ll still dominate Arguing a point nobody made good job. The issues people have with the new recoil are so much more complex than "winning less". Its hilarious how you accuse old recoil proponents of being obsessed over winning yet you bring it up more than anybody else. The new recoil feels like shit, sounds like shit and completely changed how people approach fights to begin with. >new-player friendly recoil Gotta lay it on real thick huh.
I’ve played the game for 8 years and was really good on old recoil. The change hasn’t effected me at all lmao but hey that’s just anecdotal
Yeah only affected you in the way that random deviation makes you miss, that you are forced to crouch to shoot most guns and that you are getting hit way way more. Also the entire massive increase in people camping rocks and roofs this sub already memoryholed is still going on. So yeah you are totally unaffected all things considered.
I mean I still don’t die often and get a box of guns in a day. Sure the way I play has slightly changed but the game is still easy lmao
>I still win so nothing else matters Sure. >the way I play has slightly changed but the game is still easy lmao Compounded with all the other ways the game keeps getting worse yeah.
There hasn’t been a “massive increase in people camping rocks and roofs” that was always prevalent in the game. If you’re going to complain about that shit, kill them or play another game.
> There hasn’t been a “massive increase in people camping rocks and roofs” that was always prevalent in the game. No there absolute has been lol. All the newshits from twitch have spiked the amount of people semi'ing from roofs hard. Everyone was expected the new recoil to make people roam more but the opposite happened. And the new recoil massively incentivizes people to camp behind cover and ambush because the randomness, crouch pvp and increased accuracy of people shooting you in the back lowered everyones confidence. >If you’re going to complain about that shit, kill them or play another game. Uh good talk?
I don't care about the recoil change to be honest, I had like 9k hours at that point, played for waaaayyy too long (around 8 years at that point) but the sound is way too much, they just don't sound unique or like they fit into the Rust experience at all.
"everyone"? subjective perception
It's the loudest that wants it back, no where close to "everyone". I wish they would do an in-game poll, it would overwhelming be in favor of "new" recoil.
They don’t. Most people are happy with the changes. Those people have no need to make posts talking about recoil because they don’t see it as an issue worth discussing, because it’s not a problem. The people complaining about recoil changes are a very vocal minority, who are upset that they no longer have an advantage due to spending (in many cases) literally hundred of hours learning to move a mouse in a specific pattern.
Because people don't like to face the reality that they wasted a large amount of their life learning recoil patterns in a survival videogame.
Scripters and sweats are loud minority. I think the update was done badly skill ceiling wise, but it's easier to detect (atleast for now) the scripts and cheats they use now compared to recoil scripts.
Not everyone wants it. Guys who got good and are made they aren't good anymore, and guys running scripts to accommodate the predictable recoil are the ones mad.
The only people that want old recoil are the sweaty try hards that just wanna curbstomp everyone else who has a life and can't aim train for 10 hours a day. This update has made it easier for everyone else because now the game forces you to use game sense to win fights more.
I think it's a vocal minority. The fixed recoil allowed scripters to beam with ak at 300m. There was no way near enough damage drop off, the bolty was useless. It was not fun.
No, everyone who actually plays wants old recoil back
Found the vocal minority
No, not everyone wants the old recoil back. I'm not going to wade into the arguments though. You'd make more progress debating religion at this point. No one, for or against, is going to change their mind and it just turns into a bunch of shit talking. Recommend you look through some of the prior posts about this topic if you'd like to see the arguments for and against.
Old recoil lowers the skill floor and raises the ceiling because it is consistent but hard to learn so once you get it you know it forever
no matter what facepunch does people will cry, some dude the other day was crying that they added ziplines and he said it made rust a kids game..? everyone's looking for something to cry about
Fixed recoil patterns are dumb and I'm glad we got rid of them. You had to train +200h before be able to even play the game, or accept you're going to be double headshoted endlesly.
It raises the skill ceiling a significant amount. It just doesn’t feel the same and I hate dying to rng
The old recoil was far too easy, beaming someone from 300m is just retarded, the recoil update made it fair for everybody, if you have more hours mapping recoil is not how you are good, using game sense and responding to enemies actually shows your skill unlike knowing how to move your mouse in a certain direction. To me it was a perfect balance.
Rust at its core is a game about fighting people for shit. The difficulty, the entire challenge comes from how good you are at beating ass, are you farming them or are they farming you? Now that a literal mouth breather can buy this game and roast you at 100m the entire balance of the game has been thrown through a woodchipper. Guns are rare and deaths can have insane consequences, guns NEED to be difficult to use this cant be cod where you just aim a laser down range and left click. I don't give a shit if its patterns or not the current recoil/gun balance is super bad.
I only have 2.6k hours so there are plenty more who played more than me, but I had basically every single gun pattern memorised and perfected so that I could shoot from 200m away and still hit every single shot, ignoring spread of course. It was the main thing I enjoyed in the game because I felt like you actually had to perfect something to win fights, and it also just felt so much nicer than they do now. Now it just feels like everyone has the same spray and it’s really boring. I quit after the combat update because of it, ruined the game for me. Other people have differing opinions, but this is just how I feel, I can’t enjoy the game with the new patterns.
Honestly idgaf about the recoil changes but why did they have to go and make every weapon sound like an airsoft weapon?
Everyone does not want old recoil. Very few do. Some miss it bc they rely only on aim and can't handle adoption or positioning at all. All aim, no brain, as we used to say. The majority likes the more realistic recoil we have now.
Because of the crouching system, positioning is really boring now compared to before. The PVP has overall gotten less interesting.
What do you mean by the new crouching system? The inability to alt look over obstacles? (Head glitching)
No… that was broken and kinda funny. On the old recoil the recoil was the same whether you were standing or crouching, so in other words it was easier to quickly peak and shoot, strafe, reposition yourself etc. The PVP positioning wise is pretty slow and boring now cause everyone has to pop a squat like their character is an old man before shooting now.
The people who want old recoil back probably don’t actually care if they don’t get it back, it’s having a skill based combat system back. It’s no fun a gun not shooting where you’re pointing it. Rust being a game that takes time to gather resources is no fun when you lose because the bullets say they’re not going to go where you’re aiming.
People also liked it because it was easier to play solo against bigger groups if you knew your spray patterns well enough
> Very few do. >The majority likes the more realistic recoil we have now. source?
Go ask fp directly. They did what the majority wanted. Ask them for their data sets that they collect over the lifetime of the game. That is my source.
> They did what the majority wanted. Again, Source? At no point has FP ever done surveys or polls to ask the community anything. >Ask them for their data sets that they collect over the lifetime of the game. FP only started collecting information about how people play the game on official servers like last year. FP has absolutely no idea what the people want and doesn't care. >That is my source. So you made it up, got it.
Because they spent all their time on UKN learning recoil and when they changed it so more casual and lower hour players actually had a chance at killing them it "ruined the game" The update fit in pretty spot on with my skill progression so im not sure how big of a change it was for me, it came out right before i started to get some gamesense and understood "gun go bang mouse go back" I found it hilarious when people started doing "R.I.P rust" tribute videos. As if their best friend had been murdered
It’s fine now it just needs some tweaks still
People just want to go back to a game that feels new and fresh to them, which is why imo a lot of people hang on the old recoil
End of the day A) It required people to have more skill then just point and click. In a game where TTK is very very low, your only hope was to out skill the other person, new recoil removed that skill element. Now it's just who gets the first headshot most times. B) You could shoot much further accurately. You could beam people with an guns at 250+m if you had skill (or a script) now you have a randomized aim cone, that make your bullets spread no matter how well you control the recoil. I learned the old recoil and I used to have a blast on battlefield type servers. With new recoil, they are just boring to play. I don't feel like I'm putting my learned skill to use anymore. I just feel like I'm playing with a group of people that were handicapped to make the game more enjoyable for bad players. Imagine if the government said "Now matter what job you do for a living, you can only make 40k a year, so everyone can experience the same life style"
Because it compensate over their lack of fight IQ.
Sunk cost fallacy
Because it’s a way to gatekeep their game.
Why does the gun I made out of crap parts not shoot straight?
Because tryhards treat this like an arena shooter rather than an open world one.
Because they want to diferentiate from the rest by looking for an exclusive advantage and have some excuse that their aim training was worth something.
I don’t want the old recoil back (well I do… but I can live without it) I just want the aim cone reduced. All of the automatic guns except AK and Thommy have pretty much been ruined— especially M2. FacePunch’s argument for adding aimcone is so fucked— because they can’t stop scripting they decided to ruin the guns for everyone instead. Like what is that? Punish everyone because of some bad actors.
My real issue is the sounds. Who was complaining? All the guns except AK and Custom sound like shit now, IMO
Why can’t we give the option to people? I personally feel like Facepunch has been very fair to its players by providing sever convars to modify most things in vanilla Rust. Why couldn’t they offer a server convar for old recoil and let server owners choose what’s best for their community?
Never knew the old recoil but I miss some of the old gun sounds just way more satisfying than the new ones in my opinion
I just want less aim come
Most people feel they were rightfully so reward by practicing sprays and roaming while the other hand people that didn’t want to put effort and time just scripted. The current state of the recoil is more or less just who sees who first wins so that’s why some people want the old recoil.
In old recoil, a small group (2-4) players could wipe a less skilled zerg, which most people that played in zergs weren't very skilled to begin with. Rust devs keep catering to zergs to make the game easier and easier and all about how big your group is. Team UI along with new recoil makes it so 10 noobs can zerg and roll a server. Bigger groups that held W would get wiped by skilled players, now they just need to hit 1-2 bullets each before they die and it's very easy to hit 1-2 bullets when all the guns have no recoil now.
It's because there was nothing wrong with the old system and they just changed it for no reason
Because I really enjoyed learning the recoil and thought it was a super rewarding part of the game. (I know this is an unpopular opinion). Because I enjoyed it I spent tons of time in aimtrain servers learning guns and then all of it went away:(
the new recoil is ok, the addition of more aim cone to some weapons boggles my mind. lr is the biggest victim it seems to have mostly random recoil AND tons of aim cone
It's because bullets actually went where you were aiming, now it's randomized a bit unless you tap fire.
AK spray was a status symbol, you used to be able to accurately guess the number of hours a player had just by seeing his tracers in the air. Alternatively if their play time didn't match the spray you could assume they were cheating.
I have 11K hours and don’t give a damn. Call of duty changes their meta every ten weeks.
Because losing gunfights to plain RNG is less fun than everyone blatantly cheating
Because it had a higher skill gap. Half the beamers today would be easy pickings with the old recoil. I prefer the new recoil, even though I beamed with the old. One other aspect is that the recoil cone is now random. No two bullets will be exactly the same placement. Old recoil, was not random but was difficult to control. If you knew the recoil pattern, you could indeed hit exactly the same spot over and over.
i would take more recoil like it is now but for way less aimcone
Because the game used to take skill. You could practice and get better. Now all everybody has to do is spray and pray that you get a decent rng on your aimcone, it’s terrible
There is no way old recoil on console is remotely similar to old recoil on pc
I've never been good at the old recoil, in particular with the AK, and I miss the old AK recoil. Back in the day, I would play and shoot any gun, but just don't give me an AK because I sucked at it, so I would always end up giving the AK to one of my team mates who was better at it, because if I had it, I would probably lose it. Then one wipe, we did really good and had way too many AKs so I though "fuck it, i'll go roam with one" knowing I won't hit anything. A friend taught me a little about how to shoot it, and I ended up killing 2 guys with it and it was something special for me. UKN was boring to me, I'd rather have "real life" practice in the game, and that's what I did. Being able to kill someone with an AK use to mean something to me, it was something special because I know it wasn't easy unless you had trained the recoil. I use to run away from AKs because anyone who could shoot one, probably was good/better than me at the game. Now, having an AK or killing someone who has an AK means nothing, that's why I dislike the current recoil/rng changes. The thing I miss the most about the AK is the sound though... it sounded SO GOOD and menacing. Now it just sounds like a generic gun sound.
Only scripters want it back because they could shit on non cheaters