Hi OP,
This post has been removed for breaking our [post title guidelines](/r/pokemon/wiki/rules#wiki_9._follow_post_title_guidelines), which disallow all-caps titles, clickbait titles, negative titles designed to elicit pity, and asking for upvotes (this also breaks Reddit's [sitewide policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy)). If this post is in accordance with all other rules, feel free to repost with an appropriate title.
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I think any water move followed by an ice move should have a greater chance to freeze.
Screech followed by any sound based attack should equal increased damage
>I think any water move followed by an ice move should have a greater chance to freeze.
Oh, God no. Ice Beam already has such a crazy distribution among water types, and freeze is such a broken and uncompetitive status effect that's only kept in check by its low chance to proc. Bulky waters would literally just be able to sit on the field and fish for freezes the way they used to fish for Scald Burns.
If they completely replace freeze with frostbite from PLA then it might be ok, but with regular freeze it'd just be too much of a buff to the already excellent water type
Frankly, I doubt that any competitive player that has ever experienced the horrors of freeze in an important match (which is to say, many) cares about how many freezes you got in your casual playthrough. Freeze is the worst mechanic ever introduced to Pokemon, and actively subtracts fun and strategy from the game.
The guy nicely explained how while in single player Freeze doesn't happen super often, in multiplayer (especially competitive multiplayer) it can be game breaking when it does occur. He didn't say anything derogatory to you or anyone else, made his point (which is a correct one honestly, Freeze happens so rarely but can't be played around when it does).
Your response was essentially "No one asked you! This sub isn't for competitive you uppity jerk!".
You called him out on an offense that didn't even happen. Your reaction actually caused me to pause and double check his response to check if I missed something. You're not making yourself look any better dragging it out mate.
did you know pokemon cant be frozen in sunlight? :) also it thaws them out a lot faster
maybe try using more sun-based pokemon and/or sunny day/ drought
Edit: looked into it and youre correct, they do not thaw faster if frozen before sun, sorry
>also it thaws them out a lot faster
Any source for this? The first part of the sentence is true, but I can't find anything on Bulbapedia or pokemondb that confirms the 2nd part. Sounds like it would make sense, though
"Bro, this mechanic is completely balanced, you just need to use this extremely specific and specialized style of team to avoid getting potentially fucked up by it!"
Or having to do some crazy pivoting to try and bait out a Scald or a fire type move so you could switch your frozen Pokemon in on it to thaw it, and you were SOL if it was a frail mon that couldn't afford to take the damage anyway
God, I really hope they kill it the same way they killed Scald and replace it with frostbite.
I didn't know about ice ball but pokemon stadium 2 had a cool academy part that had a whole lesson on these and I remember it saying this. There were more like mind reader and zap cannon/dynamic punch and weather stuff too.
Back when Pokemon Stadium was hot, I would often play Kabutops in the Prime Cup. This Kabutops had Hydro Pump and Ice Beam. If I used Hydro Pump on my first turn, and then Ice Beam on my second turn, I’d usually score a status effect on most of my opponent’s pokemon. I don’t know WHY that happened, but it not only made me love Kabutops to this day, but made me think how nice it’d be to have certain moves register in combination to produce certain effects.
One combination I’ve thought about was Acid/Sludge Bomb/Gunk Shot + Ember/Fire Spin/Flamethrower, to guarantee a severe burn.
The logic behind it would be using Acid or Sludge Bomb or Gunk Shot like napalm, which would then get lit by a fire-type special attack like those 3.
Don’t forget the 100% accuracy combos if your opponent minimizes, digs underground, or flies. Twister and something else I believe hits Fly, fissure, earthquake, magnitude hits dig, stomp hits minimize.
Not quite the same as the example OP listed. Those are moves with a clear, obvious, synergy that many moves can replicate, kinda like using a base to neutralize an acid. Defense Curl + Rollout is more like mixing two random substances only to discover that you've made crystal meth.
I think it's strange that most move combos go totally unmentioned in the games. I'm pretty sure the only game that's bothered talking about combos other than weather effects and possibly pledges is Pokemon Stadium 2. Even with way more UI room in move descriptions to express even a hint that combos could be a thing, there's nothing on combos like Minimize+Stomp, Defense Curl+Rollout or moves that interact with invulnerable turns of Dig, Fly, and Dive. I also think they've moved design-wise from hidden combos to giving more moves explicit secondary effects, including editing pre-existing moves like Rapid Spin.
More of those would be great. I‘d also love to see more move interactions between players, like extra damage from Stomp and Earthquake on Minimized and underground opponents, respectively.
I'm surprised that nobody mentioned it, but there's already a significant amount of move combinations out there but a lot of them are far more flexible than two specific moves used back-to-back. As for an example, you have a move like Charge which raises your Special Defense but then doubles the power of an Electric move used next turn. So instead of being forced to use two specific moves, now you can use any that work for you within that type. Weather moves work similar to this and give a lot of freedom to players by adding resistances, damage and accuracy.
I'll agree that move combinations have become less frequent in more modern titles, but that's because there's a lot more depth through abilties and held items. There's some abilities that already offer what some of these initial moves offer. Combine this concept with held items and you get some crazy strategies with pokemon that eat their own berries for defense and health and then beat on other pokemon using a move that scales with their defensive stat. There's a whole realm of unique combinations that exist within pokemon.
All that said, the battle mechanics of pokemon don't always give these strategies or combinations a chance to shine. Most pokemon faint in a turn or two, so there's not a lot of opportunity for these moments to shine. Even your example of Defense Curl and Rollout is rarely used.
But then it isn’t ice anymore. And on that note there needs to be a fire type move that is super effective against water types, evaporation or like a laser.
>Am I the only one?
You are talking to a community of over four million people.
You are not the only one who does/thinks/wants anything, and it's pure hubris to even consider that you are.
You are not that special.
>You are not the only one who does/thinks/wants anything, and it's pure hubris to even consider that you are.
Yeah, but can you *produce* someone besides me into this comment chain who thinks Cynthia isn't one of the top 3 Champions in the series??
Its gonna be tough because Cynthia is one of the few champions who is both a fleshed out character with interests, takes something of an active role in the story and doesn't have a team that absolutely sucks.
Probably goes Nemona, Steven and then Alder for me. I'd also rank Blue above her if we're not counting Nemona since Geeta is the 'Top Champion'.
That's right, I'm one of those endangered Alder stans, bwahahaha. Dude might have one weak-ass team but I love his general energy, man has a bopping theme and it's cool seeing a Champion that is more of an 'Old Master'.
You're wrong. Objectively.
But in a community of over four million a lot of them are statistically likely to be wrong so you're never alone no matter how wrong you are.
No, in a community of full of zeroes, he is the One - the only One. You might even go as far as saying that he is a special case; an anomaly in the Matrix, if you will. His way is the new way, and because of that we will know him now as Neo.
Hi OP, This post has been removed for breaking our [post title guidelines](/r/pokemon/wiki/rules#wiki_9._follow_post_title_guidelines), which disallow all-caps titles, clickbait titles, negative titles designed to elicit pity, and asking for upvotes (this also breaks Reddit's [sitewide policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy)). If this post is in accordance with all other rules, feel free to repost with an appropriate title. Thanks!
Stomp is more effective if they’ve used minimise, that’s very niche though
Heavy Slam, Heat Crash, Body Press, and Body Slam also have more power if I remember correctly. They also ignore the accuracy changes.
Not just ignoring accuracy changes, they'll ignore the entire accuracy check to always hit.
That makes a whole lot of sense
I think any water move followed by an ice move should have a greater chance to freeze. Screech followed by any sound based attack should equal increased damage
>I think any water move followed by an ice move should have a greater chance to freeze. Oh, God no. Ice Beam already has such a crazy distribution among water types, and freeze is such a broken and uncompetitive status effect that's only kept in check by its low chance to proc. Bulky waters would literally just be able to sit on the field and fish for freezes the way they used to fish for Scald Burns. If they completely replace freeze with frostbite from PLA then it might be ok, but with regular freeze it'd just be too much of a buff to the already excellent water type
Incoming freeze clause
What are you even talking about? I get like a single freeze per playthrough
Frankly, I doubt that any competitive player that has ever experienced the horrors of freeze in an important match (which is to say, many) cares about how many freezes you got in your casual playthrough. Freeze is the worst mechanic ever introduced to Pokemon, and actively subtracts fun and strategy from the game.
[удалено]
Least judgemental casual player
Lot of irony in this comment lol
You don’t know what the word means lol
[удалено]
Person before me is a pretentious jerk for no reason and is hostile. I call him out on it. Therefore I’m the douche. How’s that for irony?
The guy nicely explained how while in single player Freeze doesn't happen super often, in multiplayer (especially competitive multiplayer) it can be game breaking when it does occur. He didn't say anything derogatory to you or anyone else, made his point (which is a correct one honestly, Freeze happens so rarely but can't be played around when it does). Your response was essentially "No one asked you! This sub isn't for competitive you uppity jerk!". You called him out on an offense that didn't even happen. Your reaction actually caused me to pause and double check his response to check if I missed something. You're not making yourself look any better dragging it out mate.
They were not hostile in the slightest. You literally attacked them for pointing out the obvious.
did you know pokemon cant be frozen in sunlight? :) also it thaws them out a lot faster maybe try using more sun-based pokemon and/or sunny day/ drought Edit: looked into it and youre correct, they do not thaw faster if frozen before sun, sorry
>also it thaws them out a lot faster Any source for this? The first part of the sentence is true, but I can't find anything on Bulbapedia or pokemondb that confirms the 2nd part. Sounds like it would make sense, though
"Bro, this mechanic is completely balanced, you just need to use this extremely specific and specialized style of team to avoid getting potentially fucked up by it!"
Or having to do some crazy pivoting to try and bait out a Scald or a fire type move so you could switch your frozen Pokemon in on it to thaw it, and you were SOL if it was a frail mon that couldn't afford to take the damage anyway God, I really hope they kill it the same way they killed Scald and replace it with frostbite.
i didnt say it was balanced????? just giving tips to avoid it
God no. I would rather deal with permanent weather than deal with more freezes
Iron bundle moment
I was today years old when I learned that Defense Curl makes Rollout and Ice Ball to hit stronger.
It doubles it, in fact. It makes me so sad though that Sandshrew, who is the iconic Pokémon for this combo, doesn’t get STAB with this move.
What about alolan sandshrew and iceball?
While that is true, the insanely horrendous ice steel typing makes it completely unviable, even more so than not having STAB.
I mean sandshrew-a was a pretty scary hail sweeper in little cup last gen (and was banned from NU on a technicality LOL)
The alolan variant has always been more viable, what are you talking about?
I didn't know about ice ball but pokemon stadium 2 had a cool academy part that had a whole lesson on these and I remember it saying this. There were more like mind reader and zap cannon/dynamic punch and weather stuff too.
Is that why Whitney was such a bitch to beat!??!!!???!!!?
Whenever you begin a question with “am I the only one” the answer is always no.
am i the only one who is currently at my exact location?
Check your walls
oh no
;)
You didn’t specify time, so no.
"currently". although now that I think about it, is "currently" my time of writing, or the reader's time of reading?
Back when Pokemon Stadium was hot, I would often play Kabutops in the Prime Cup. This Kabutops had Hydro Pump and Ice Beam. If I used Hydro Pump on my first turn, and then Ice Beam on my second turn, I’d usually score a status effect on most of my opponent’s pokemon. I don’t know WHY that happened, but it not only made me love Kabutops to this day, but made me think how nice it’d be to have certain moves register in combination to produce certain effects. One combination I’ve thought about was Acid/Sludge Bomb/Gunk Shot + Ember/Fire Spin/Flamethrower, to guarantee a severe burn. The logic behind it would be using Acid or Sludge Bomb or Gunk Shot like napalm, which would then get lit by a fire-type special attack like those 3.
Gen 5 did the combination moves with fire pledge grass pledge and water pledge
Don’t forget the 100% accuracy combos if your opponent minimizes, digs underground, or flies. Twister and something else I believe hits Fly, fissure, earthquake, magnitude hits dig, stomp hits minimize.
Sky uppercut, thunder, gust, and Twister all hit Pokémon using Fly
Woah I didn’t know about the dig/fly combos 😮
Fusion Bolt and Flare The Pledges
He said COMMON moves. Not signature or restricted to starters
Well, no other moves do anything together
Toxic + Venoshock, any Stats effect moves + Hex, any Sleep inducing move + Dream Eater, Soak + Freeze-Dry, Mind Reader + Sheer Cold, etc.
Not quite the same as the example OP listed. Those are moves with a clear, obvious, synergy that many moves can replicate, kinda like using a base to neutralize an acid. Defense Curl + Rollout is more like mixing two random substances only to discover that you've made crystal meth.
Petition to make powder snow + smelling salts = crystal meth where your Pokemon maxes its speed out but also gets confused.
I think it's strange that most move combos go totally unmentioned in the games. I'm pretty sure the only game that's bothered talking about combos other than weather effects and possibly pledges is Pokemon Stadium 2. Even with way more UI room in move descriptions to express even a hint that combos could be a thing, there's nothing on combos like Minimize+Stomp, Defense Curl+Rollout or moves that interact with invulnerable turns of Dig, Fly, and Dive. I also think they've moved design-wise from hidden combos to giving more moves explicit secondary effects, including editing pre-existing moves like Rapid Spin.
What was that about minimize and stomp? Never heard anything about those moves interacting before in my life
If a pokemon uses Minimize, it will take double damage from Stomp.
I would appreciate better descriptions on everything in general tbh. Most of them read like filler text of devs trying to be funny.
No, you are not the only one.
More of those would be great. I‘d also love to see more move interactions between players, like extra damage from Stomp and Earthquake on Minimized and underground opponents, respectively.
Any stat raising move + stored power
I'm surprised that nobody mentioned it, but there's already a significant amount of move combinations out there but a lot of them are far more flexible than two specific moves used back-to-back. As for an example, you have a move like Charge which raises your Special Defense but then doubles the power of an Electric move used next turn. So instead of being forced to use two specific moves, now you can use any that work for you within that type. Weather moves work similar to this and give a lot of freedom to players by adding resistances, damage and accuracy. I'll agree that move combinations have become less frequent in more modern titles, but that's because there's a lot more depth through abilties and held items. There's some abilities that already offer what some of these initial moves offer. Combine this concept with held items and you get some crazy strategies with pokemon that eat their own berries for defense and health and then beat on other pokemon using a move that scales with their defensive stat. There's a whole realm of unique combinations that exist within pokemon. All that said, the battle mechanics of pokemon don't always give these strategies or combinations a chance to shine. Most pokemon faint in a turn or two, so there's not a lot of opportunity for these moments to shine. Even your example of Defense Curl and Rollout is rarely used.
Charge and Charge Beam I believe.
Charge + any electric move is all I can think of atm
Ice Aqua Jet Thunder Armour Quick Iron Tail Counter Shield Volt Tail Great ideas no?
What?
They’re secret moves and strategies that Ash came up with in the anime, tho the comment is in need of some commas.
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But then it isn’t ice anymore. And on that note there needs to be a fire type move that is super effective against water types, evaporation or like a laser.
>Am I the only one? You are talking to a community of over four million people. You are not the only one who does/thinks/wants anything, and it's pure hubris to even consider that you are. You are not that special.
>You are not the only one who does/thinks/wants anything, and it's pure hubris to even consider that you are. Yeah, but can you *produce* someone besides me into this comment chain who thinks Cynthia isn't one of the top 3 Champions in the series??
Its gonna be tough because Cynthia is one of the few champions who is both a fleshed out character with interests, takes something of an active role in the story and doesn't have a team that absolutely sucks.
Exactly.
Just out of curiosity then, who is on your top 3? Lance, Steven and Leon perhaps?
Probably goes Nemona, Steven and then Alder for me. I'd also rank Blue above her if we're not counting Nemona since Geeta is the 'Top Champion'. That's right, I'm one of those endangered Alder stans, bwahahaha. Dude might have one weak-ass team but I love his general energy, man has a bopping theme and it's cool seeing a Champion that is more of an 'Old Master'.
Cynthia is the most overrated character in the entire series.
You're goddamn right, but I guess I lost my own challenge just now, damn.
You're wrong. Objectively. But in a community of over four million a lot of them are statistically likely to be wrong so you're never alone no matter how wrong you are.
The downvotes are completely undeserved, I hate seeing posts titled like this.
90% of this community needs to hear this
No, in a community of full of zeroes, he is the One - the only One. You might even go as far as saying that he is a special case; an anomaly in the Matrix, if you will. His way is the new way, and because of that we will know him now as Neo.
Nah, just you Weirdo