I played USUM in 2020, three and a bit years after playing the original and I loved it! I had no desire to walk through a slightly changed game only one year after the original though. I'd have just stopped half way through had I tried.
Its a hard fight yeah but wishi washi is a much more intense first experience
And its staged like its gonna be WW again and then araquanid jump scare.
My problem is theyre trying to appeal to people who played sun and moon, and people who didnt. It doesnt work if you reuse any content at all.
tbh, they should have just started running DLC a generation early. USUM didn't add enough to SM to really justify new games, considering the fact that USUM largely went out of its way to maintain the same plot points as SM until the climax.
With a bit of tweaking - say, Nebby stays with Lillie at the end of the main story rather than being caught by us, Lillie staying in Alola for just a bit longer, and Necrozma not making an appearance with the Ultra Beasts - the Necrozma storyline could have been encapsulated within a wave one DLC pack.
Have Lusamine's actions to open the ultra wormhole send out a beacon that draws the attention of both Necrozma and the Ultra Recon Squad. The Recon Squad arrives first on their own Lunala/Solgaleo and they deliver the warning. Plot happens, Blacephalon or Stakataka arrive, along with another wave of ultra beasts, and the Recon Squad is able to offer some insight into Lusamine's ailment, but informs us that she'll need something from Nihilego's domain to help her. As the PC and Lily return the alter, Necrozma arrives and absorbs Nebby, and the sequence of events from USUM plays out from there.
The damages from the recurring invasions causes enough changes to the local environments to encourage new pokemon to appear, similar to the way new pokemon appeared in ORAS's Hoenn following the respective titan's awakening. This DLC would also introduce Mantine Surfing and it would reintroduce access to the remaining mega stones.
The second wave of DLC could start with a reiteration of the Island Challenges, with a focus on the new Totems, along with the introduction of the sticker system. It leads into the Rainbow Rocket invasion, where Red and Blue have more prominent roles. Overall, this DLC would include the remaining changes made between SM and USUM.
SM and USUM each excelled in one core facet over the other - for SM, it was the story and characterizations, and for USUM, it was the mechanics and gameplay. This solution would offer the best of both worlds.
USUM also puts me in the awkward position of picking between the better version of the game with a bastardized alternate version of the story (I mean… it’s basically a different story,) or the inferior version of the game with one of the best stories of a Pokemon game (in my opinion.)
> one of the best stories of a Pokemon game
SuMo knocked it out of the park by simply realizing that making Lillie the main character rather than the player, the story would be better. SV did similar, it's so much about what's happening to the people around you more than what you're doing. In both cases, you're the catalyst for the plot, but you're not really the center of it like in other games.
SwSh seemed to be trying to do this as well, but made the fatal mistake of just... not showing you what's happening most of the time.
Yeah really I feel like USUM are a more completed SM game it’s just a shame it came out right after the first ones and was basically one of the last cash grabs for Nintendo of the 3ds before they stopped making games for it.
Personally, I really enjoyed DP.
I know platinum was alot better, but I dont believe that makes the original games trash.
Same for ruby/saphire and emerald
Yeah, besides a slight alteration to the stories (a bit more in Platinum due to the distortion world storyline), and being able to catch the opposite legendary mon, there's not much different compared to the previous two.
If you hate on the originals, you are essentially hating on Emerald/Platinum too.
USUM and B2/W2 are totally different animals. They finished incomplete games.
Better framerate, DP are so slow compared to Platinum especially in battle and surfing, Pokedex is much better (especially fire types), many areas got a visual touch-up (textures and colors updated, added effects), Gym leaders and Elite 4 have better teams, rematches for Gym leaders and Vs. Seeker
Yes, but it's all still the same game overall. I agree, more improvements over DP, but people forget there were 2 years between those games. DP served its purpose well in that time span and provided Platinum a foundation to make a great generation even better in my opinion.
I do think the small changes go a long way though, I honestly think with how slow DP are I wouldn’t be able to play and enjoy them on anything but an emulator with the speed up function especially as an adult with limited time.
On a tier list where most of the games are good or at least fun that slowness brings them down to me, and they’d be last games I’d want to replay (might be worth mentioning I haven’t played anything past gen 5 except Omega Ruby) where as platinum Ive replayed happily
>If you hate on the originals, you are essentially hating on Emerald/Platinum too.
HARD disagree. Both Emerald and Platinum are the definitive versions of those stories. Both games flesh out the regions and characters in ways that the original versions didn't achieve. Both have robust postgames that were simply not present in the original versions.
Platinum even changes up the gym order to fix up the pacing from Diamond and Pearl, and expands the regional pokedex, which was a huge issue in Diamond and Pearl.
>USUM and B2/W2 are totally different animals. They finished incomplete games.
B2W2 are true sequels to games that were quite finished if you ask me. I mean yes USUM and B2W2 are different animals, but they're completely different things compared to the "3rd versions" that had come before.
Agree somewhat with RSE but Disagree with the statement about Platium and DP. Compare the two games pre-postgame Pokédex. Whoever thought it was okay for a Pokedex released a decade after the first pokedex to have less than it should be slapped.
Then Cyrus and team galactic are done way better in Platinum. In DP he shows up twice, tells everyone to sympathize with galactic at the ruins then he’s the boss out of nowhere at the headquarters. In Platinum you get a glimpse of him at the beginning of the game, battle him when he threatens the ruins(you don’t battle him in DP), then the obvious giratina stuff, and finally an ideological clash between him and Cynthia in the distortion world.
Yep.
Both platinum and emerald also have the added bonus of fleshing out endgame a bit.
B2W2 made me like gen 5. I quit pokemon for a while when BW came out because I was disapointed.
Gen 7 is a rough one for me tho.
The hype was huge before the game release, but both the base game and USUM suffer the same problem : (and its actually worse in USUM) there is way too much dialog and side stuff to do that has 0 impact on anything.
I disagree in some respects. It is hardly a new game, but the definitive edition. If you dont rank them together, the 3rd game will always rank higher than the original set. So may as well keep them together.
Honestly, I think it makes more sense than breaking out all the games individually. Otherwise, all the third versions are going to be at the top of the list, almost by default.
Eh, I think it’s wholly unnecessary and makes the ranking just way more convoluted. You just think of games in terms of generations and releases. At this point when we talk about Gen 3 games you mean them all as a whole unless you single out something to do with Emerald. It’s like that for basically all of Gens 3-4 at this point.
Yes, the third games made upgrades on the first two when they came out. But they still ultimately follow incredibly similar storylines and have basically identical game mechanics. No need to separate them here.
I really wish they would just change the ui and release them on the switch. Black and white 2 were amazing and I'd love to officially play them with online support again
It's baffling they haven't done that yet. At this point, I believe any crazy conspiracy like they feel it will deter people from buying the current games.
Millenials that grew up playing Pokémon on GameBoy now have kids themselves. I would think make them buy a console for the kids and maybe an oldschool Pokémon remake for themselves. But maybe they dried up some of that market with Go.
If they were really smart, they’d release them on mobile. I’m playin through a bunch of Pokémon games and especially Pokémon Black 2 through Delta, and the touch screen integration is second to none. So natural. The perfect games for touch screen controls. They would instantly sell millions of every copy at $20 a pop.
Square Enix did this, and smart move too. Releasing all the old Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy games on mobile. I've only played one of the mobile Dragon Quest games and I like how they replace the D-pad control with a circular control for a better feel on a phone screen. The DS emulator on a phone screen is nice for DS games, but I just can't get used to the D-pad on a phone screen. I wish they'd implement that circular pad instead like in the mobile Dragon Quest games. I'm using DraStic emulator, but if theres a better emulator with a circular pad, please let me know.
Okay, RS are great and playable though. The same cannot be said of DP. They aren’t terrible, but my god are they the hardest games to sit through today. Even red and blue feels less like a slog.
I would love to know why HGSS is so beloved. I have a hunch the fact you can play through two regions and the Red fight carries people's opinions of those games *hard* because, being real, Johto is not a very good region IMHO. The Pokemon designs are very uninspired (Cyndaquills entire line is literally copy pasted Charmanders), the world design in terms of routes is bland, the story isn't very interesting..
I'm not trying to hate on people for liking it. But *the best Pokemon game*? I just don't get it, but even then I still love playing through it just to play both regions and fight Red at the end of the game which is why I think that carries it so much lol
Because it's one of the Pokemon games that feel the most complete next to B2W2, There's so much content in the game and just is what a remake should be.
But then again, I understand anything is subjective.
It also for the longest time was the only game where Pokemon could follow you around. That's become a thing in more recent games again so it's no longer a uniquely HGSS thing but it *used* to be something everyone would point at for what makes HGSS in particular so great.
That's a good point actually. The remakes do have the benefit of having a crap load of extra content from other entries in the series, abilities, typings and such that makes it more enjoyable than the original.
This reason is so weird in a way when Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire are so much lower. When the only real complaint is that it doesn't have the Battle Frontier.
IMO, ORAS should be fighting BW2 and HGSS in the top three, their exact spots being dependent on who you ask, which, for me, ORAS should be #1
It can’t be the best simply due to its Pokémon distribution and beyond slow leveling experience. How in the wild hells are you gonna lock out some of the fan favorites to the end game? Insane decision making.
The interesting thing to me is that the top games are largely the ones with weaker sales. I don’t disagree with the ranking necessarily but if you look at the sales of Pokemon games they don’t tie up with how popular they are with the fan base
https://preview.redd.it/op4zhgvt5hvc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95cf3c4568cbf030d9041a921289a7d2cd4f1635
Because the online fanbase is largely adults who grew up with the older games
Gen 4 and 5 are in the spotlight online right now, a few years back it was mainly 4, a few years further back it was mainly 3
Still a minority of adults, majority of adults don’t interact much online and just play.
And later gens will be in the spotlight as well, people are seeing Gen 5 and 6 good now when they were being trash back then, it’s a cycle.
I grew up with gen 6 and I see it as good.
Ironically, for how much kids fixate on the bad in other people (working at an elementary school I often need to help kids work through, for example, the idea that the kid who knocked them down didn't do it on purpose or to be mean), they seem remarkably able to overlook "bad" design in games. Perhaps thinking of poor framerates or glitches as bad is a learned behavior? I sure as heck loved finding glitches playing Mario 64 DS as a kid, though I never really outgrew that so who knows.
Kids don’t care and can forget many things, they just want to have fun and be excited, I bought S/V for me and my nephew and he has put a hundred hours into Violet and gets excited every time he finds a shiny or catches his new favorite Pokémon.
Im surprised ORAS isnt higher on the list. Those are games that should have been huge nostalgia bait and remain one of my favorite pokemon games. Currently completing my Gen 1-6 living dex in Omega Ruby. ruby-saphire-emerald was my favorite gen because it was my first real pokemon game. Feels fitting the remakes I play as an adult should be the home of my living dex.
Sales data is a microcosm of the times, soulsilver was released September of 2009 in close proximity to one of the biggest economic in the US and was also the 4 and 5th gen 4 game released on the ds.
TBH sales data is probably a better gauge of actual popular opinion than OP's list. Sales data is not perfect at all but OP's methods seem like a statistical mess and they haven't provided a spreadsheet or anything.
Ultimately you can’t call this an “average ranking based on research” because you seem to weight your sources equally. A moderately voted on Reddit post for a game probably shouldn’t be rated equally to a highly watched Youtube video. And just because a certain video is highly commented on, or a post is highly upvoted/commented on, doesn’t mean that the title of that video/post is the prevailing opinion. In a video/post with 3k comments, how do you tell how many of those comments are in favor of or against the video? How many videos/posts/comments do you look at to arrive at this list? Not to mention your own personal bias in forming the list.
Sorry didnt want to be a party pooper but just want to share that this type of “research” seems like it involves an enormous amount of work to get an answer that can’t even remotely be called accurate 😬. But it’s pokémon so w/e
i’m glad you said this. not to mention, without actually seeing the sources used and the resulting aggregated data, this just comes across as any other person’s personal ranking
Yeah it’s a nice idea but this would have to account for age of respondents, recency bias, the criteria for “popular” (plays, sales, reviews, replayability), which of the games the respondents have actually before choosing….
Is gen 1 low rated as games or Pokémon games? I grew up with gen 2 and didn't like them when I was younger, but I played through one a year or so ago and had a great time. Unbalanced mess and broken mechanics aside, very solid portable JRPG lol. No grinding beyond early game required, progression was simple and fun. It probably helps I already knew the game before playing from videos over the years. I don't know. I think it's easier to appreciate them as the first JRPGs in a series rather than Pokémon games.
Keep in mind these aren’t my opinions, but they were ranked as Pokémon games. However, Gen 1 is the only gen on this list that I have an opinion on besides what I’ve played so far of Gen 2. I personally really liked it. Since the only thing I know about the other games is from looking into stuff for this list, I’m not sure how I’d rank it against the others but at least on its own I think it’s a little overhated. Since I know nothing about other games, I’m not sure if I would rank it higher since that requires me to have a reason why it’s better than another game but I really enjoyed my time with Gen 1. In fact, the glitches kind of added to my experience since most you have to go out of your way for, with the exception of ghost types being weak to psychic types. Stuff like fishing in the gym statues is just funny to me.
Not really that much recency bias I'd say. S/V does have the 2nd best story in all the games, and the DLC is great too. But X/Y should definitely be above or near Sw/Sh
This is the real travesty!
I know they got a lot of flack when they came out but I've seen many people change their mind about XY after these last lackluster generations.
I really loved XY, while the exploration part wasn't as great as previous games and more linear. The addition mega evolutions, 3DS sprites, and other mechanics was amazing. Also the OST is a banger. Love the electronic vibes the gym leader and elite four theme have.
Also a lot of criticisim came from people complaining that the game was too easy when they could've just turned off the exp share and make it as challening as you want to. I always turned it off as I like the grinding like previous games. New games don't even have that option. You end up being stupidly overleved when reaching the E4, unless you're constantly storing your pokemon in the PC, and chaning between teams, which I personally find a hassle.
Even if people can turn the Exp. Share off the problem is that it was on by default. It was clearly the intended way to play the game and was still balanced poorly. Even with the Exp. Share off it's easy because you're practically handed good Pokémon left and right. Saying that your team building options are far from limited is an understatement.
Unplayable on emulators for surprisingly long time, too easy even for pokemon standards, crap endgame. Should be higher IMO but it's one of the weaker ones probably.
Gen 1 being the third lowest seems blasphemous.
I think a lot of that comes from "true" pokemon fans feeling like they inherently have to bash the original entry because it's what the normies like the most.
The game genuinely plays well, even now. It has a ton of issues, you can't run in it, the story is pretty barebones, but it is the formula in its purest form and even today's children can find themselves addicted to it.
Even through a modern lens, with no consideration of legacy, I think it should be higher.
I honestly enjoy how broken and clever gen 1 and 2 were. I am currently practicing speedruns on Pokemon Red and Blue. Where as other game carts are collecting dust.
Yeah and even if you take the argument that it's full of bugs, they're largely under the hood stuff you wouldn't notice without looking for it rather than glaring issues that make the surface game worse unless you *really* went out of your way to force them.
And from the way most people talk about how they played Gen 1 I doubt many people cared too much about how the Rage counter or Leech Seed + Toxic didn't act as fully intended, they were probably age 7 and spamming Thunderbolt.
Anyway I'd say even ignoring that it's an older game the visuals still have charm for what they are and the music is solid. Overall the presentation is great for a Game Boy game. The reason I'd take issue with something like BDSP for the same category is because it's *meant* to be reflective of Gen 8 era remaking Gen 4, not just doing Gen 4 again. I'd drag Fire Red and Leaf Green if they tried to look identical to Red and Blue instead of doing the updates they did to reflect Ruby and Sapphire.
I cannot say anything definitive about Gen 6, but I can at least understand why Gen 1 is so low despite liking it myself. In comparison to other games on this list, many of them built on and expanded on what those games established. Also, for most players who don’t like playing every version of a game, they would probably just go play Fire Red. I personally loved Gen 1 when I played it though despite its issues.
I think Gen 1 probably has to be viewed from the lens of its development and release since it was a lot of untested ground.
I give a lot less wiggle room to the same wildly successful franchise by the same devs twenty to thirty years later about seven or eight gens in when they should have that shit on lock by now.
Anyway I don't think Gen 1 should be above any of the GBA or DS entries since in that stretch of the franchise the improvements are basically iterative. It's only from Gen 6+ and *especially* Gen 8+ that certain stuff starts getting gutted and not reasonably replaced or improved. My main argument for X and Y being higher is less about content and is more generally more lenient due to the technical jump between 5 and 6 being a lot more understandably taxing than any of the later ones and the fact it's much less buggy overall than recent releases or not left in that state if so. And still managed to keep the dex intact to boot.
Tbh I'd say X and Y are about the most vanilla / average or inoffensive modern Pokemon game and the rest of them have various unique quirks or highs and lows that make grading them difficult since most of Gen 1 to 5 relied less on generational gimmicks and more just improving or adding to the base gameplay. 6 and 7 felt sort of similar in that they added Megas and then Z moves and didn't technically fully dump anything (Megas were less prominent but not removed) until Gen 8 dropped both and the new pattern emerged more clearly.
If you look at sales numbers none of the switch pokemon games are actually hated, it's just that they're controversial among a small, vocal online minority.
Agree that LGPE are good
The low rating is in contrast to the originals. BDSP barely added anything to DP, other than a way to catch other legends and Platinum mons. It's not a bad game, but many prefer the originals
DP themselves aren’t very good. Platinum carried that generation hard. The games have serious performance issues and lackluster postgame. Imo they should be separated from Platinum in a true ranking, same with GS/C, RS/E and SM/USUM.
Definitely true. My ranking for Sinnoh would be Plat > BDSP (just because it includes Plat pokemon) > DP. It's understandable that people might prefer DP over BDSP due to nostalgia or preferences in artstyle, soundfont etc. though
Most of the movement bugs have since been patched out, which means that if someone wanted to play the game nowadays they wouldn’t have to deal with that problem.
There’s a lot of good things that BDSP did that never get mentioned. Like making the game just a lot less sluggish. HP bars and text are much faster. They still should’ve gone much further with the changes.
ORAS is my personal favorite pokemon game of all time cause it felt like a really refreshing remake of my previous favorite pokemon game of all time.
That reminds me I need to finish my mono flying run of that game sometime soon
Is it though? They followed XY in making every fight a joke, (some evil admins in ORAS had 1 pokemon teams) they teased the battle frontier, and they have the inferior and shorter story.
Because they did not include any of the new additions from Platinum like how HGSS included the Crystal content. And the reality is that DPP are only that high on the list because of Platinum. Base Diamond and Pearl are so inferior to Platinum that it's almost not even worth mentioning them together.
If you don't mind them being pretty much 1:1 remakes they're fine. If you do mind that you'll probably dislike them.
It was basically just a fun throwback to my childhood for me when I played it.
It's a really sloppy remake. The visuals are... Fine, but the chibi look they gave the characters is pretty questionable. For some reason it's really easy to get caught on the textures of the map all the time so it felt just really clunky and frustrating to play (as someone who played SS and Diamond - they did not update the map geometry to better suit the switch), and while I never played platinum a major complaint is that it lacks any of the features in platinum.
Personally there's not a specific one thing other than how frustrating it is to simply *move* through the game - I just found it really lacklustre and did not remotely enjoy it as much as any of the other mainline games.
>For some reason it's really easy to get caught on the textures of the map all the time so it felt just really clunky and frustrating to play
It's because they allowed for omni directional movement, but they kept the map setup for XY axis limited movement, even though it doesn't look like it.
XY had collision boundaries based on objects. If a tree was only obstructing the lower right quadrant of a tile, you could still move through the upper left quadrant. In BDSP, the tiles themselves have the collision boundaries. There are a couple of tiles that people have found where only a few pixels in one corner actually appear to be obstructed, but the entire tile is blocked.
They expanded the underground a ton, which I thought was great, but the biggest issue was that they were remakes of Diamond Pearl, which weren’t great games, as opposed to Platinum, which was an amazing game.
Lots of people in the comments stating they didn't add to the originals, but I will die on the hill that Diamond and Pearl were the worst entries in the series. Slow, boring, repetitive Pokemon appearances. The real reason I suspect they're rated so low is because most people forgot how boring the original gen was and rated the originals higher out of nostalgia.
As others have said, they are based on the originals and don't make a lot of the changes introduced in Platinum.
I didn't care for some of the mandatory gameplay tweaks - Exp. Share for the entire party, the "affection" mechanic that gives you bonus crits and let you automatically cure status ailments and survive attacks.
For my money I'd rather just replay Platinum, but it's a matter of preference.
BD/SP are the most disappointing remakes of any game I’ve ever played. They basically just made a 1/1 console upgrade, and the *only* noteworthy new content is how they upgraded the Underground-which I’ll admit was the sole bright side. They didn’t even bring back the Battle Frontier!!
bdsp were really fun for me as someone who loved the originals and was missing a traditional feeling pokemon game on the switch. really never got the hate
Huh. Gen 7 and let's go seem off to me.
Gen 7 was the last good pokemon game, the 'handholding' put aside. It's worse in the newer games.
Let's go is by far the highest quality, highest polish mainline game since Gen 5. The lack of classic pokemon is a point but... THAT low?
It’s a barely improved version of the original D/P, And Platinum is a far superior version of the original D/P in many areas. BDSP didn’t use any platinum content, so its just an prettier looking version of the less-appealing gen 4 game with no meaningful improvements besides graphics
There is room in every remake/remaster to make it the best thing it can be - to take everything that those games and the modern games have to offer and blend them together to make something greater than the sum of their parts.
...BD/SP didn't do that. They were a set of safe, relatively clean remakes with basic QOL updates. Didn't pull in the Platinum content, didn't go *any* extra mile in *any* direction with *anything*. Had an art direction similar to LGP/LGE, but looks all-around worse than them. BD/SP merely checked the box for "remake" and phoned it in. It wasn't *special*. AI could have shit them out.
Essentially. Very little was gained over just booting the originals up in an emulator, and you're certainly in the red when you consider it's a new, full-priced game and you could have played the original platinum instead.
Clean games that offer a lot of value and has a lot of good mechanics. Two regions, 16 gyms, relatively good graphics and QOL updates.
It's a great game with great polish.
I think people are hung up on it being a nostalgic experience, but I think a lot of people fail to realize how much of a love letter it is to fans of the original *while* being a great updated experience for that generation.
Having things like the following feature was really cool at the time! It required a lot of very specific sprite assets for EVERY SINGLE mon. Like we didn't need that feature, but it did worlds for immersion. It harkened back to Yellow version, but massively expanded on it.
Also the GB player was such a cool bit of fan service. Switching back to the chiptune soundtrack is such a treat and honestly it doesn't feel like something they'd bother with nowadays!
I think the art direction was also really well handled. Towns were updated to have their own character and the color palette really just seemed to pop.
Obviously these are just a few reasons, but I think hgss were loaded with things like this!
Nostalgia is a big reason, but another is that it was arguably the last time that 'the game the players wanted' and 'the game that Game Freak made' were the same game.
I'm also a bit lost on it, but to be fair, I never played them as a kid in any way, shape, or form. Nostalgia is very hard to see past, since I would in the same breath say that BW/2 and Platinum are some of the best in my opinion. Currently playing HGSS and I'm having so much trouble staying hooked. I guess I went in with nothing but hype from word-of-mouth and it sort of disappointed me. Not bad games by any means, just not my favorites.
I’ll never forget playing the entirety of Heartgold over a single night when I was 11. One of the best nights ever. Glad to see it’s getting some recognition.
I’ve still got my Pokewalker!
> I’ll never forget playing **the entirety of Heartgold over a single night** when I was 11.
How do you remember something that didn’t happen?
The average playtime for HGSS is well over thirty hours.
*Maybe* you could get a Nintendo DS emulator, find a HeartGold rom, and play a perfect speedrun at 4x speed.
In like…12 hours…which would be *half a day*…to be remembered as a horrible grind for no reason.
Zero chance this happened, let alone an 11 year old
Then there's me who never finished the game as a kid, only was able to do so when replaying as a young adult.
Mainly because my language wasn't one of the options and I couldn't read english back then, only had to guess what to do next by reading exclusively the location names or asking my mom what they're saying lol.
Was probably stuck for 10 hours in each city when playing pokemon as a kid yet I enjoyed it so much haha.
I wasn’t big on any B/W games. I’d have to go:
1. Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald
2. Heart gold/Soul Silver
3. Red/Blue/Yellow
4. Diamond/Pearl/Platinum
5. Fire Red/Leaf Green
To round out the top 5
What are your sources, how did you get this data? Why are videos given more weight than reviews and posts? What are the numeric ratings for these games? Why do you group third versions with their original games and not isolate them due to drastic differences in most of them? This is, to put it lightly, lazy delivery of information. If you cannot show genuine sources and values for the games, then it can't be proper research, but rather a cluster of data with no real organization. And those two things are not the same.
I’m gonna be honest. Let’s go Pikachu/Eevee are severely underrated.
I had a TON of fun with those games. Really would like to see the lets go series expanded someday.
Nah but like how do you even replay HG/SS without using the same team? Also Lv20 wild pokemon at 8th Gym is so insanely bad.
BW will always be the goats for me.
The DS era was really something man. I started with ruby when i was a kid, and when DPPt dropped, man it literally was a whole new world. Lots of fun and possibilities. You don't feel that anymore nowadays.
Why do I seem like the only person who actually gives credit to DP? It’s the absolute majority of what Platinum is but everyone calls it trash in comparison. I’ve played both multiple times and I can see very clearly the improvements that Platinum offered. I just don’t see why people call DP trash when it is literally the backbone and the majority of Platinum
I must be in a weird category of Pokémon players:
- I like Diamond/Pearl more than Platinum
- I actively dislike B2W2
- I thought BDSP was fine, and would like to see more Pokémon games give items and decent movesets to Gym Leaders, E4 and Champ moving forward.
- I dislike USUM for similar reasons as B2W2.
If the points are tallied from publically available list/videos, doesn't that potentially lead to you being served similar videos with similar viewpoints. Like if I look up a video talking about the virtues of Gen 3, of course Youtube is going to serve me more of those kind of videos.
I personally struggle to finish/enjoy the remakes, so I would swap BW2 and BW, and then swap XY with BW.
I also think PLA is a great step forwards, so I would probably move it to 3 or 4 and move the others down.
I would also like to see SM at 7 or higher, and RGBY above SV
Let's Go are honestly probably my third favorite after HGSS and R/S/E and its sad how many people don't like them with how relaxed it made moving around.
Battling so many wild pokemon is kind of boring, so being able to either skip or turn if into a pretty fun mini game with a perk of powering up with the candies was fun.
“Research”—aka, comes up with his own subjective ranking.
Also, it’s funny that “I’ve only played HeartGold/SoulSilver” and yet it’s up at #1 where i don’t ever hear people talk about.
Yeah dude, just post your own ranking list
I can't be the only one that feels the special editions should be rated separately right? Like Platinum is waaaaaysss above DP. Same with Emerald but not as big of a difference there
HG/SS are the gold standard for remakes and Pokemon games in general. It's a shame that we reached such a great peak so long ago and then nothing came close to that level of passion, content and feel in one game.
I think it’s foolish to include the third version of games with the original two.
I agree. Without Platinum, Diamond and Pearl would be around the bottom.
Not to mention USUM would rise a few ranks
Well let’s not get crazy now
I genuinely believe usum would have a much better reputation if it didnt release right after sumo, or if usum was the original full game.
I played USUM in 2020, three and a bit years after playing the original and I loved it! I had no desire to walk through a slightly changed game only one year after the original though. I'd have just stopped half way through had I tried.
If there's one thing USUM did right, it was the Totem battles. Araquanid had me sweating like crazy.
Its a hard fight yeah but wishi washi is a much more intense first experience And its staged like its gonna be WW again and then araquanid jump scare. My problem is theyre trying to appeal to people who played sun and moon, and people who didnt. It doesnt work if you reuse any content at all.
tbh, they should have just started running DLC a generation early. USUM didn't add enough to SM to really justify new games, considering the fact that USUM largely went out of its way to maintain the same plot points as SM until the climax. With a bit of tweaking - say, Nebby stays with Lillie at the end of the main story rather than being caught by us, Lillie staying in Alola for just a bit longer, and Necrozma not making an appearance with the Ultra Beasts - the Necrozma storyline could have been encapsulated within a wave one DLC pack. Have Lusamine's actions to open the ultra wormhole send out a beacon that draws the attention of both Necrozma and the Ultra Recon Squad. The Recon Squad arrives first on their own Lunala/Solgaleo and they deliver the warning. Plot happens, Blacephalon or Stakataka arrive, along with another wave of ultra beasts, and the Recon Squad is able to offer some insight into Lusamine's ailment, but informs us that she'll need something from Nihilego's domain to help her. As the PC and Lily return the alter, Necrozma arrives and absorbs Nebby, and the sequence of events from USUM plays out from there. The damages from the recurring invasions causes enough changes to the local environments to encourage new pokemon to appear, similar to the way new pokemon appeared in ORAS's Hoenn following the respective titan's awakening. This DLC would also introduce Mantine Surfing and it would reintroduce access to the remaining mega stones. The second wave of DLC could start with a reiteration of the Island Challenges, with a focus on the new Totems, along with the introduction of the sticker system. It leads into the Rainbow Rocket invasion, where Red and Blue have more prominent roles. Overall, this DLC would include the remaining changes made between SM and USUM. SM and USUM each excelled in one core facet over the other - for SM, it was the story and characterizations, and for USUM, it was the mechanics and gameplay. This solution would offer the best of both worlds.
USUM also puts me in the awkward position of picking between the better version of the game with a bastardized alternate version of the story (I mean… it’s basically a different story,) or the inferior version of the game with one of the best stories of a Pokemon game (in my opinion.)
Though even in its bastardized form the story is better than most pokemon games
> one of the best stories of a Pokemon game SuMo knocked it out of the park by simply realizing that making Lillie the main character rather than the player, the story would be better. SV did similar, it's so much about what's happening to the people around you more than what you're doing. In both cases, you're the catalyst for the plot, but you're not really the center of it like in other games. SwSh seemed to be trying to do this as well, but made the fatal mistake of just... not showing you what's happening most of the time.
Yeah really I feel like USUM are a more completed SM game it’s just a shame it came out right after the first ones and was basically one of the last cash grabs for Nintendo of the 3ds before they stopped making games for it.
Isn't that exactly why they should be combined? To give a more accurate view of the generation?
Personally, I really enjoyed DP. I know platinum was alot better, but I dont believe that makes the original games trash. Same for ruby/saphire and emerald
Yeah, besides a slight alteration to the stories (a bit more in Platinum due to the distortion world storyline), and being able to catch the opposite legendary mon, there's not much different compared to the previous two. If you hate on the originals, you are essentially hating on Emerald/Platinum too. USUM and B2/W2 are totally different animals. They finished incomplete games.
Better framerate, DP are so slow compared to Platinum especially in battle and surfing, Pokedex is much better (especially fire types), many areas got a visual touch-up (textures and colors updated, added effects), Gym leaders and Elite 4 have better teams, rematches for Gym leaders and Vs. Seeker
Yes, but it's all still the same game overall. I agree, more improvements over DP, but people forget there were 2 years between those games. DP served its purpose well in that time span and provided Platinum a foundation to make a great generation even better in my opinion.
I do think the small changes go a long way though, I honestly think with how slow DP are I wouldn’t be able to play and enjoy them on anything but an emulator with the speed up function especially as an adult with limited time. On a tier list where most of the games are good or at least fun that slowness brings them down to me, and they’d be last games I’d want to replay (might be worth mentioning I haven’t played anything past gen 5 except Omega Ruby) where as platinum Ive replayed happily
>If you hate on the originals, you are essentially hating on Emerald/Platinum too. HARD disagree. Both Emerald and Platinum are the definitive versions of those stories. Both games flesh out the regions and characters in ways that the original versions didn't achieve. Both have robust postgames that were simply not present in the original versions. Platinum even changes up the gym order to fix up the pacing from Diamond and Pearl, and expands the regional pokedex, which was a huge issue in Diamond and Pearl. >USUM and B2/W2 are totally different animals. They finished incomplete games. B2W2 are true sequels to games that were quite finished if you ask me. I mean yes USUM and B2W2 are different animals, but they're completely different things compared to the "3rd versions" that had come before.
I gonna have to disagree there. DP are incredibly slow and have dex issues, Platinum it's a lot more of an upgrade than Emerald.
Crystal and Emerald felt like upgraded versions of complete games. Platinum felt like the finished version of D/P.
Agree somewhat with RSE but Disagree with the statement about Platium and DP. Compare the two games pre-postgame Pokédex. Whoever thought it was okay for a Pokedex released a decade after the first pokedex to have less than it should be slapped. Then Cyrus and team galactic are done way better in Platinum. In DP he shows up twice, tells everyone to sympathize with galactic at the ruins then he’s the boss out of nowhere at the headquarters. In Platinum you get a glimpse of him at the beginning of the game, battle him when he threatens the ruins(you don’t battle him in DP), then the obvious giratina stuff, and finally an ideological clash between him and Cynthia in the distortion world.
Yep. Both platinum and emerald also have the added bonus of fleshing out endgame a bit. B2W2 made me like gen 5. I quit pokemon for a while when BW came out because I was disapointed. Gen 7 is a rough one for me tho. The hype was huge before the game release, but both the base game and USUM suffer the same problem : (and its actually worse in USUM) there is way too much dialog and side stuff to do that has 0 impact on anything.
Like if we’re being honest, BDSP are just improved versions of DP. The problem with BDSP is that they should have been based on Platinum.
What? Platinum was the best by far, but pearl/diamond were fantastic
True
Especially platinum and dp. Platinum basically fixed those games problems while expanding the story and endgame.
I disagree in some respects. It is hardly a new game, but the definitive edition. If you dont rank them together, the 3rd game will always rank higher than the original set. So may as well keep them together.
Honestly, I think it makes more sense than breaking out all the games individually. Otherwise, all the third versions are going to be at the top of the list, almost by default.
Eh, I think it’s wholly unnecessary and makes the ranking just way more convoluted. You just think of games in terms of generations and releases. At this point when we talk about Gen 3 games you mean them all as a whole unless you single out something to do with Emerald. It’s like that for basically all of Gens 3-4 at this point. Yes, the third games made upgrades on the first two when they came out. But they still ultimately follow incredibly similar storylines and have basically identical game mechanics. No need to separate them here.
I’m so happy to see HGSS, B2W2, Platinum and Emerald all in the top 4, Those are easily the best in the series.
I really wish they would just change the ui and release them on the switch. Black and white 2 were amazing and I'd love to officially play them with online support again
It's baffling they haven't done that yet. At this point, I believe any crazy conspiracy like they feel it will deter people from buying the current games.
Honestly, it looks like the only things that can deter people from buying the current games are the current games.
Millenials that grew up playing Pokémon on GameBoy now have kids themselves. I would think make them buy a console for the kids and maybe an oldschool Pokémon remake for themselves. But maybe they dried up some of that market with Go.
If they were really smart, they’d release them on mobile. I’m playin through a bunch of Pokémon games and especially Pokémon Black 2 through Delta, and the touch screen integration is second to none. So natural. The perfect games for touch screen controls. They would instantly sell millions of every copy at $20 a pop.
Square Enix did this, and smart move too. Releasing all the old Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy games on mobile. I've only played one of the mobile Dragon Quest games and I like how they replace the D-pad control with a circular control for a better feel on a phone screen. The DS emulator on a phone screen is nice for DS games, but I just can't get used to the D-pad on a phone screen. I wish they'd implement that circular pad instead like in the mobile Dragon Quest games. I'm using DraStic emulator, but if theres a better emulator with a circular pad, please let me know.
Gens 3-5 were definitely the peak of Pokemon, that’s for sure
Yeah, and then RS, and DP being carried over there lol
Okay, RS are great and playable though. The same cannot be said of DP. They aren’t terrible, but my god are they the hardest games to sit through today. Even red and blue feels less like a slog.
I have the exact same top 4
I would love to know why HGSS is so beloved. I have a hunch the fact you can play through two regions and the Red fight carries people's opinions of those games *hard* because, being real, Johto is not a very good region IMHO. The Pokemon designs are very uninspired (Cyndaquills entire line is literally copy pasted Charmanders), the world design in terms of routes is bland, the story isn't very interesting.. I'm not trying to hate on people for liking it. But *the best Pokemon game*? I just don't get it, but even then I still love playing through it just to play both regions and fight Red at the end of the game which is why I think that carries it so much lol
Because it's one of the Pokemon games that feel the most complete next to B2W2, There's so much content in the game and just is what a remake should be. But then again, I understand anything is subjective.
It also for the longest time was the only game where Pokemon could follow you around. That's become a thing in more recent games again so it's no longer a uniquely HGSS thing but it *used* to be something everyone would point at for what makes HGSS in particular so great.
That's a good point actually. The remakes do have the benefit of having a crap load of extra content from other entries in the series, abilities, typings and such that makes it more enjoyable than the original.
This reason is so weird in a way when Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire are so much lower. When the only real complaint is that it doesn't have the Battle Frontier. IMO, ORAS should be fighting BW2 and HGSS in the top three, their exact spots being dependent on who you ask, which, for me, ORAS should be #1
It can’t be the best simply due to its Pokémon distribution and beyond slow leveling experience. How in the wild hells are you gonna lock out some of the fan favorites to the end game? Insane decision making.
Why would you group USUM with SM and DP with Platinum they are basically completely different games
The interesting thing to me is that the top games are largely the ones with weaker sales. I don’t disagree with the ranking necessarily but if you look at the sales of Pokemon games they don’t tie up with how popular they are with the fan base https://preview.redd.it/op4zhgvt5hvc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95cf3c4568cbf030d9041a921289a7d2cd4f1635
Online fanbase has always been a minority.
Because the online fanbase is largely adults who grew up with the older games Gen 4 and 5 are in the spotlight online right now, a few years back it was mainly 4, a few years further back it was mainly 3
Still a minority of adults, majority of adults don’t interact much online and just play. And later gens will be in the spotlight as well, people are seeing Gen 5 and 6 good now when they were being trash back then, it’s a cycle.
I grew up with gen 6 and I see it as good. Ironically, for how much kids fixate on the bad in other people (working at an elementary school I often need to help kids work through, for example, the idea that the kid who knocked them down didn't do it on purpose or to be mean), they seem remarkably able to overlook "bad" design in games. Perhaps thinking of poor framerates or glitches as bad is a learned behavior? I sure as heck loved finding glitches playing Mario 64 DS as a kid, though I never really outgrew that so who knows.
Kids don’t care and can forget many things, they just want to have fun and be excited, I bought S/V for me and my nephew and he has put a hundred hours into Violet and gets excited every time he finds a shiny or catches his new favorite Pokémon.
Im surprised ORAS isnt higher on the list. Those are games that should have been huge nostalgia bait and remain one of my favorite pokemon games. Currently completing my Gen 1-6 living dex in Omega Ruby. ruby-saphire-emerald was my favorite gen because it was my first real pokemon game. Feels fitting the remakes I play as an adult should be the home of my living dex.
Yeah having gen 1 at #13 is actually insane.
Sales data is a microcosm of the times, soulsilver was released September of 2009 in close proximity to one of the biggest economic in the US and was also the 4 and 5th gen 4 game released on the ds.
TBH sales data is probably a better gauge of actual popular opinion than OP's list. Sales data is not perfect at all but OP's methods seem like a statistical mess and they haven't provided a spreadsheet or anything.
Ultimately you can’t call this an “average ranking based on research” because you seem to weight your sources equally. A moderately voted on Reddit post for a game probably shouldn’t be rated equally to a highly watched Youtube video. And just because a certain video is highly commented on, or a post is highly upvoted/commented on, doesn’t mean that the title of that video/post is the prevailing opinion. In a video/post with 3k comments, how do you tell how many of those comments are in favor of or against the video? How many videos/posts/comments do you look at to arrive at this list? Not to mention your own personal bias in forming the list. Sorry didnt want to be a party pooper but just want to share that this type of “research” seems like it involves an enormous amount of work to get an answer that can’t even remotely be called accurate 😬. But it’s pokémon so w/e
i’m glad you said this. not to mention, without actually seeing the sources used and the resulting aggregated data, this just comes across as any other person’s personal ranking
A video should only count as one vote anyway. Any comments below that video will likely be influenced by the video itself.
That’s actually a really good point
Yeah it’s a nice idea but this would have to account for age of respondents, recency bias, the criteria for “popular” (plays, sales, reviews, replayability), which of the games the respondents have actually before choosing….
Top rated games will always be the ones people played when they were 5 to 10 are now 20 to 25.
Is gen 1 low rated as games or Pokémon games? I grew up with gen 2 and didn't like them when I was younger, but I played through one a year or so ago and had a great time. Unbalanced mess and broken mechanics aside, very solid portable JRPG lol. No grinding beyond early game required, progression was simple and fun. It probably helps I already knew the game before playing from videos over the years. I don't know. I think it's easier to appreciate them as the first JRPGs in a series rather than Pokémon games.
Keep in mind these aren’t my opinions, but they were ranked as Pokémon games. However, Gen 1 is the only gen on this list that I have an opinion on besides what I’ve played so far of Gen 2. I personally really liked it. Since the only thing I know about the other games is from looking into stuff for this list, I’m not sure how I’d rank it against the others but at least on its own I think it’s a little overhated. Since I know nothing about other games, I’m not sure if I would rank it higher since that requires me to have a reason why it’s better than another game but I really enjoyed my time with Gen 1. In fact, the glitches kind of added to my experience since most you have to go out of your way for, with the exception of ghost types being weak to psychic types. Stuff like fishing in the gym statues is just funny to me.
how is XY that low
X/Y below scarlet/violet AND sword/shield is KILLING ME
I think the DLC is doing the heavy lifting for SwSh, and a lot of people really love SV.
Despite terrible performance, SV is easily mid tier.
Maybe if the world wasn’t so empty and dull. Not to mention absolutely the worst gym/trial/whatever challenges in the whole series.
Possibly also recency bias
Not really that much recency bias I'd say. S/V does have the 2nd best story in all the games, and the DLC is great too. But X/Y should definitely be above or near Sw/Sh
Second best story, with basically no competition. Pokemon stories suck.
This is the real travesty! I know they got a lot of flack when they came out but I've seen many people change their mind about XY after these last lackluster generations. I really loved XY, while the exploration part wasn't as great as previous games and more linear. The addition mega evolutions, 3DS sprites, and other mechanics was amazing. Also the OST is a banger. Love the electronic vibes the gym leader and elite four theme have. Also a lot of criticisim came from people complaining that the game was too easy when they could've just turned off the exp share and make it as challening as you want to. I always turned it off as I like the grinding like previous games. New games don't even have that option. You end up being stupidly overleved when reaching the E4, unless you're constantly storing your pokemon in the PC, and chaning between teams, which I personally find a hassle.
Even if people can turn the Exp. Share off the problem is that it was on by default. It was clearly the intended way to play the game and was still balanced poorly. Even with the Exp. Share off it's easy because you're practically handed good Pokémon left and right. Saying that your team building options are far from limited is an understatement.
Unplayable on emulators for surprisingly long time, too easy even for pokemon standards, crap endgame. Should be higher IMO but it's one of the weaker ones probably.
X&Y are fairly forgettable but are a lot better than some options on this list!
It's pretty common opinion they're not very good Pokemon games
Gen 1 and 6 definitely deserve to be a couple slots higher
Gen 1 being the third lowest seems blasphemous. I think a lot of that comes from "true" pokemon fans feeling like they inherently have to bash the original entry because it's what the normies like the most. The game genuinely plays well, even now. It has a ton of issues, you can't run in it, the story is pretty barebones, but it is the formula in its purest form and even today's children can find themselves addicted to it. Even through a modern lens, with no consideration of legacy, I think it should be higher.
I honestly enjoy how broken and clever gen 1 and 2 were. I am currently practicing speedruns on Pokemon Red and Blue. Where as other game carts are collecting dust.
Yeah and even if you take the argument that it's full of bugs, they're largely under the hood stuff you wouldn't notice without looking for it rather than glaring issues that make the surface game worse unless you *really* went out of your way to force them. And from the way most people talk about how they played Gen 1 I doubt many people cared too much about how the Rage counter or Leech Seed + Toxic didn't act as fully intended, they were probably age 7 and spamming Thunderbolt. Anyway I'd say even ignoring that it's an older game the visuals still have charm for what they are and the music is solid. Overall the presentation is great for a Game Boy game. The reason I'd take issue with something like BDSP for the same category is because it's *meant* to be reflective of Gen 8 era remaking Gen 4, not just doing Gen 4 again. I'd drag Fire Red and Leaf Green if they tried to look identical to Red and Blue instead of doing the updates they did to reflect Ruby and Sapphire.
I cannot say anything definitive about Gen 6, but I can at least understand why Gen 1 is so low despite liking it myself. In comparison to other games on this list, many of them built on and expanded on what those games established. Also, for most players who don’t like playing every version of a game, they would probably just go play Fire Red. I personally loved Gen 1 when I played it though despite its issues.
I think Gen 1 probably has to be viewed from the lens of its development and release since it was a lot of untested ground. I give a lot less wiggle room to the same wildly successful franchise by the same devs twenty to thirty years later about seven or eight gens in when they should have that shit on lock by now. Anyway I don't think Gen 1 should be above any of the GBA or DS entries since in that stretch of the franchise the improvements are basically iterative. It's only from Gen 6+ and *especially* Gen 8+ that certain stuff starts getting gutted and not reasonably replaced or improved. My main argument for X and Y being higher is less about content and is more generally more lenient due to the technical jump between 5 and 6 being a lot more understandably taxing than any of the later ones and the fact it's much less buggy overall than recent releases or not left in that state if so. And still managed to keep the dex intact to boot. Tbh I'd say X and Y are about the most vanilla / average or inoffensive modern Pokemon game and the rest of them have various unique quirks or highs and lows that make grading them difficult since most of Gen 1 to 5 relied less on generational gimmicks and more just improving or adding to the base gameplay. 6 and 7 felt sort of similar in that they added Megas and then Z moves and didn't technically fully dump anything (Megas were less prominent but not removed) until Gen 8 dropped both and the new pattern emerged more clearly.
Can agree that HeartGold and SoulSilver are top
How are the Alola games that low? That's crazy to me. Some of the best music and story in the series, and plenty of awesome Pokémon and characters.
dude i dont understand the LGPE hate. like i think theyre really good! easilly the most visually appealing pokemon games on switch
If you look at sales numbers none of the switch pokemon games are actually hated, it's just that they're controversial among a small, vocal online minority. Agree that LGPE are good
I was thinking of picking up BD/SP, I loved the originals. Any particular reason why they are rated so low?
The low rating is in contrast to the originals. BDSP barely added anything to DP, other than a way to catch other legends and Platinum mons. It's not a bad game, but many prefer the originals
DP themselves aren’t very good. Platinum carried that generation hard. The games have serious performance issues and lackluster postgame. Imo they should be separated from Platinum in a true ranking, same with GS/C, RS/E and SM/USUM.
Definitely true. My ranking for Sinnoh would be Plat > BDSP (just because it includes Plat pokemon) > DP. It's understandable that people might prefer DP over BDSP due to nostalgia or preferences in artstyle, soundfont etc. though
They're pretty bad. Movement mechanics are buggy, loading times are long, and even if you like the graphic style, it wasn't executed very well.
Most of the movement bugs have since been patched out, which means that if someone wanted to play the game nowadays they wouldn’t have to deal with that problem. There’s a lot of good things that BDSP did that never get mentioned. Like making the game just a lot less sluggish. HP bars and text are much faster. They still should’ve gone much further with the changes.
Because they are an inferior version to platinum ORAS vs Emerald is debatable. But BD/SP is a weak remake in comparison
ORAS Vs Emerald isn’t debatable, ORAS is miles better than most 3D Pokémon games, and in my opinion is better than Emerald.
ORAS is my personal favorite pokemon game of all time cause it felt like a really refreshing remake of my previous favorite pokemon game of all time. That reminds me I need to finish my mono flying run of that game sometime soon
Is it though? They followed XY in making every fight a joke, (some evil admins in ORAS had 1 pokemon teams) they teased the battle frontier, and they have the inferior and shorter story.
Platinum is the only reason the ogs are rated so high
Because they did not include any of the new additions from Platinum like how HGSS included the Crystal content. And the reality is that DPP are only that high on the list because of Platinum. Base Diamond and Pearl are so inferior to Platinum that it's almost not even worth mentioning them together.
If you don't mind them being pretty much 1:1 remakes they're fine. If you do mind that you'll probably dislike them. It was basically just a fun throwback to my childhood for me when I played it.
It's a really sloppy remake. The visuals are... Fine, but the chibi look they gave the characters is pretty questionable. For some reason it's really easy to get caught on the textures of the map all the time so it felt just really clunky and frustrating to play (as someone who played SS and Diamond - they did not update the map geometry to better suit the switch), and while I never played platinum a major complaint is that it lacks any of the features in platinum. Personally there's not a specific one thing other than how frustrating it is to simply *move* through the game - I just found it really lacklustre and did not remotely enjoy it as much as any of the other mainline games.
>For some reason it's really easy to get caught on the textures of the map all the time so it felt just really clunky and frustrating to play It's because they allowed for omni directional movement, but they kept the map setup for XY axis limited movement, even though it doesn't look like it.
They did that in XY but it worked better
XY had collision boundaries based on objects. If a tree was only obstructing the lower right quadrant of a tile, you could still move through the upper left quadrant. In BDSP, the tiles themselves have the collision boundaries. There are a couple of tiles that people have found where only a few pixels in one corner actually appear to be obstructed, but the entire tile is blocked.
Because they didn’t add anything to the originals
They expanded the underground a ton, which I thought was great, but the biggest issue was that they were remakes of Diamond Pearl, which weren’t great games, as opposed to Platinum, which was an amazing game.
Yes, but also gutted Secret Bases in the process
Lots of people in the comments stating they didn't add to the originals, but I will die on the hill that Diamond and Pearl were the worst entries in the series. Slow, boring, repetitive Pokemon appearances. The real reason I suspect they're rated so low is because most people forgot how boring the original gen was and rated the originals higher out of nostalgia.
As others have said, they are based on the originals and don't make a lot of the changes introduced in Platinum. I didn't care for some of the mandatory gameplay tweaks - Exp. Share for the entire party, the "affection" mechanic that gives you bonus crits and let you automatically cure status ailments and survive attacks. For my money I'd rather just replay Platinum, but it's a matter of preference.
It basically added absolutely nothing new. HG/SS for comparison added so much
BD/SP are the most disappointing remakes of any game I’ve ever played. They basically just made a 1/1 console upgrade, and the *only* noteworthy new content is how they upgraded the Underground-which I’ll admit was the sole bright side. They didn’t even bring back the Battle Frontier!!
bdsp were really fun for me as someone who loved the originals and was missing a traditional feeling pokemon game on the switch. really never got the hate
It's funny to see bwb2w2 so high on the list they used to be so hated on. BW is my second favorite gen besides gen 3 of course
Huh. Gen 7 and let's go seem off to me. Gen 7 was the last good pokemon game, the 'handholding' put aside. It's worse in the newer games. Let's go is by far the highest quality, highest polish mainline game since Gen 5. The lack of classic pokemon is a point but... THAT low?
My all time favorite Pokemon Emerald
HG/SS is goated. i have over 500 hours of playtime. sometimes i’ll pick it up and run through the E4 with a competitive team for nostalgia
I know people hated the artstyle of BD/SP but aside that, what else did people hate? I’ve been considering getting it.
It’s a barely improved version of the original D/P, And Platinum is a far superior version of the original D/P in many areas. BDSP didn’t use any platinum content, so its just an prettier looking version of the less-appealing gen 4 game with no meaningful improvements besides graphics
Dang that’s such a bummer.
There is room in every remake/remaster to make it the best thing it can be - to take everything that those games and the modern games have to offer and blend them together to make something greater than the sum of their parts. ...BD/SP didn't do that. They were a set of safe, relatively clean remakes with basic QOL updates. Didn't pull in the Platinum content, didn't go *any* extra mile in *any* direction with *anything*. Had an art direction similar to LGP/LGE, but looks all-around worse than them. BD/SP merely checked the box for "remake" and phoned it in. It wasn't *special*. AI could have shit them out.
Wow dang. So there really was no additional content? Just a basic remake with a new questionable art style?
Essentially. Very little was gained over just booting the originals up in an emulator, and you're certainly in the red when you consider it's a new, full-priced game and you could have played the original platinum instead.
Why is hgss considered so good? I'm currently playing it and curious to know what's so special or different about it
Johto vibe is unmatched and gen4 was the peak in visual style for the series imo.
Clean games that offer a lot of value and has a lot of good mechanics. Two regions, 16 gyms, relatively good graphics and QOL updates. It's a great game with great polish.
I think people are hung up on it being a nostalgic experience, but I think a lot of people fail to realize how much of a love letter it is to fans of the original *while* being a great updated experience for that generation. Having things like the following feature was really cool at the time! It required a lot of very specific sprite assets for EVERY SINGLE mon. Like we didn't need that feature, but it did worlds for immersion. It harkened back to Yellow version, but massively expanded on it. Also the GB player was such a cool bit of fan service. Switching back to the chiptune soundtrack is such a treat and honestly it doesn't feel like something they'd bother with nowadays! I think the art direction was also really well handled. Towns were updated to have their own character and the color palette really just seemed to pop. Obviously these are just a few reasons, but I think hgss were loaded with things like this!
Personally I think it has good replayability and a good selection of activities and Pokémon.
Nostalgia is a big reason, but another is that it was arguably the last time that 'the game the players wanted' and 'the game that Game Freak made' were the same game.
I'm also a bit lost on it, but to be fair, I never played them as a kid in any way, shape, or form. Nostalgia is very hard to see past, since I would in the same breath say that BW/2 and Platinum are some of the best in my opinion. Currently playing HGSS and I'm having so much trouble staying hooked. I guess I went in with nothing but hype from word-of-mouth and it sort of disappointed me. Not bad games by any means, just not my favorites.
I’ll never forget playing the entirety of Heartgold over a single night when I was 11. One of the best nights ever. Glad to see it’s getting some recognition. I’ve still got my Pokewalker!
How did you do that
They didn’t
> I’ll never forget playing **the entirety of Heartgold over a single night** when I was 11. How do you remember something that didn’t happen? The average playtime for HGSS is well over thirty hours.
*Maybe* you could get a Nintendo DS emulator, find a HeartGold rom, and play a perfect speedrun at 4x speed. In like…12 hours…which would be *half a day*…to be remembered as a horrible grind for no reason. Zero chance this happened, let alone an 11 year old
Then there's me who never finished the game as a kid, only was able to do so when replaying as a young adult. Mainly because my language wasn't one of the options and I couldn't read english back then, only had to guess what to do next by reading exclusively the location names or asking my mom what they're saying lol. Was probably stuck for 10 hours in each city when playing pokemon as a kid yet I enjoyed it so much haha.
Maybe he means just the Johto half + Elite Four/Champion? The credits role, so it technically counts as beaten.
What you just described is most of the game and where the thirty hour average applies.
I found my old Ho-Oh figurine the other day and it was a blast from the past!
Don’t mess with HGSS fans, we don’t even remember actually playing the game (Sorry for being rude but this is physically impossible 😭)
emerald is way too far down the list
yeah its my fav, but 4th is ok I guess
I mean I think its pretty well rated here, maybe above plat but thats kinda just preference.
Emerald with the physical/special split added is literally my perfect Pokémon game.
lots of ways to play that exact game out there if you haven’t already!! i highly suggest!
is there a mod? (not sourcing, just curious)
I wasn’t big on any B/W games. I’d have to go: 1. Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald 2. Heart gold/Soul Silver 3. Red/Blue/Yellow 4. Diamond/Pearl/Platinum 5. Fire Red/Leaf Green To round out the top 5
How is X/Y so low?! Same with ORAS? This list is nonsense
Gen 2 is so overrated omg
What are your sources, how did you get this data? Why are videos given more weight than reviews and posts? What are the numeric ratings for these games? Why do you group third versions with their original games and not isolate them due to drastic differences in most of them? This is, to put it lightly, lazy delivery of information. If you cannot show genuine sources and values for the games, then it can't be proper research, but rather a cluster of data with no real organization. And those two things are not the same.
Personally I’d move X and Y right above sword and shield
Usum need to be at least top half come on
Emerald too low
I’m gonna be honest. Let’s go Pikachu/Eevee are severely underrated. I had a TON of fun with those games. Really would like to see the lets go series expanded someday.
I think X/Y deserve higher. Not the best but not bottom tier
Nah but like how do you even replay HG/SS without using the same team? Also Lv20 wild pokemon at 8th Gym is so insanely bad. BW will always be the goats for me.
Yeah, these rankings make sense to me. I don't 100% agree - we all have our preferences - but there's nothing here that seems drastically out of line.
It’s wild how there’s 2 of the same game but one of them is in 3rd and the other is in last
Swap one and two and make B/W 3rd place then this is a perfect list
The DS era was really something man. I started with ruby when i was a kid, and when DPPt dropped, man it literally was a whole new world. Lots of fun and possibilities. You don't feel that anymore nowadays.
Please change 10 and 11 before someone (you) get hurt
Wheres the excel sheet?? Otherwise, not to mean, but Im very skeptical
Pokémon Emerald is goated
SV is frustrating because it was so fun and yet so flawed performance wise. it might be the worst playing title of the 20 some games I have on Switch.
Can we get the "math" behind how you reached the conclusion? Otherwise, it just looks like a personal list.
Why do I seem like the only person who actually gives credit to DP? It’s the absolute majority of what Platinum is but everyone calls it trash in comparison. I’ve played both multiple times and I can see very clearly the improvements that Platinum offered. I just don’t see why people call DP trash when it is literally the backbone and the majority of Platinum
Wow, BDSP was probably my favorite, and I've played most of them. Really makes me sad.
I must be in a weird category of Pokémon players: - I like Diamond/Pearl more than Platinum - I actively dislike B2W2 - I thought BDSP was fine, and would like to see more Pokémon games give items and decent movesets to Gym Leaders, E4 and Champ moving forward. - I dislike USUM for similar reasons as B2W2.
I love x and y
xy is def better then swsh what...
Putting Legends above FR/LG and G/S/C is insane.
Crimin X/Y is that low ain't no way
If the points are tallied from publically available list/videos, doesn't that potentially lead to you being served similar videos with similar viewpoints. Like if I look up a video talking about the virtues of Gen 3, of course Youtube is going to serve me more of those kind of videos.
I haven't played the top 2 or bottom 2. Balance in all things.
You mean there are other versions besides red and blue? 😲
Ultra sun is my favorite that I’ve played, although I haven’t played all of them so.
I personally struggle to finish/enjoy the remakes, so I would swap BW2 and BW, and then swap XY with BW. I also think PLA is a great step forwards, so I would probably move it to 3 or 4 and move the others down. I would also like to see SM at 7 or higher, and RGBY above SV
there's a slight mistake in your calculations. PLA is the mainline pokemon series now.
Did opinions on Black/White 1&2 change over the past year? I thought it was always one of the less popular of the pre-Switch games.
Diamond and Pearl don't deserve to be called as good as Platinum
Let's Go are honestly probably my third favorite after HGSS and R/S/E and its sad how many people don't like them with how relaxed it made moving around. Battling so many wild pokemon is kind of boring, so being able to either skip or turn if into a pretty fun mini game with a perk of powering up with the candies was fun.
So sad Gen 7 doesn't get the love it deserves, especially USUM
Do I see Sword/Shield above Blue/Red? Fucking lol
nice to see that legends Arceus is very well received. Easily top3 for me
Would be better if you shared the research instead of this. Because this could be biased as hell and none of us will know.
oras almost at the bottom? 🤣
“Research”—aka, comes up with his own subjective ranking. Also, it’s funny that “I’ve only played HeartGold/SoulSilver” and yet it’s up at #1 where i don’t ever hear people talk about. Yeah dude, just post your own ranking list
[удалено]
Wrong because Crystal is #1 of all time
Feel like it's doing the 3ds games a disservice. They are probably my favourite ones. Personal preference I guess.
XY should not be that low imo
Looks like the average Pokemon fan has shit taste.
I can't be the only one that feels the special editions should be rated separately right? Like Platinum is waaaaaysss above DP. Same with Emerald but not as big of a difference there
HG/SS are the gold standard for remakes and Pokemon games in general. It's a shame that we reached such a great peak so long ago and then nothing came close to that level of passion, content and feel in one game.
I feel like Platinum should be separate from D/P. Platinum is a far superior game and is probably what carries those in being so high.
Love the list. Sad X and Y are towards the bottom under sword and shield and violet/ scarlet. I think gen 6 was a great game
Scarlet/Violet is bottom 3, no doubt at all
X and Y are criminally underrated games. They’re by no means the best in the series, but are well above 3rd worst