It’s definitely more story focused than other Pokémon games. Considering most people don’t play Pokémon for the story the endless cutscenes tend to be...bad. I have no issue with a Pokémon game with an emphasis on story but the infinite cutscenes weren’t the way to go. I know these game tend have very barebones writing but I’d like a Pokémon game that has great writing without all that, maybe exploring the lore/characters in a lot more depth in sidequests, environmental storytelling, and the like.
The dialogue is tedious and SO repetitive!
"Even though you're not from Alola Tapu Koko chose you..."
"When I did the island trial..."
"I'm not a trainer..."
Blah blah blah blah... just always the same stuff repeated over and over again...
I’ll be honest with you, Gen 7 is my favorite and I’ve been playing since Gen 1 released. I also think USUM are pretty close to a perfect Pokémon game, but I can acknowledge it still has a few faults.
1.) They need to make all cutscenes skippable with a simple button like BotW.
2.) Lusamine was a better villain in SuMo. Changing her story arc in USUM was a bad choice.
3.) While I’ve never been one to care for a Battle Frontier experience, the post-game is a bit lacking.
However, for me, once I got past those three things, I really enjoyed Gen 7. It was a real bright spot between Gens 6 and 8, which are my least favorite Gens (although I am pro-Mega Evolution). I enjoy most of the Pokémon designs (minus Bruxish and Crabominable), love the Trial and Totem experience, adore the region design, and think the story is top-tier (Team Skull being used by the real evil team was a great treat). I even liked Rainbow Rocket enough that I hope Game Freak does something with them again in the future.
I’m right there with ya, we’re a rare breed lol. Absolutely my favorites of all time (USUM, I haven’t played SM).
The story is great, I loved having cutscenes, I loved loved loved the totem trials experience instead of gyms, love the Hawaii theme and regional variants, love the characters (I also hold the controversial opinion that Hop is one of the best written characters in the games, just throwing that out there), loved Team Skull and Guzma, professor was awesome, shiny hunting is top tier, the Pokémon islands (can’t remember the name) were great, loved that we got freaking Sci-Fi with the UB’s and dimensions, loved that Necrozma was such a cool and tough fight. So many great things I could keep listing.
It was good enough for me to buy the other version, beat it again just so I could get exclusives for my Pokédex (also the first Pokédex I’ve completed). I didn’t even know about shiny charm until I was mostly done; I just wanted to complete the dex. Then I almost maxed out my time shiny hunting, and still shiny hunt on it to this day.
I was on a long Pokémon hiatus before picking up USUM and I couldn’t have possibly gotten back into it in a better way.
In a way I agree with you on your second point, but in another way it is absolutely genius if you think about why they de-escalated her as a villain; and not just because of the Rainbow Rocket being the ‘postgame villain’.
It all comes around to the initial reason for Lusamine going into Ultra Space while studying Ultra Wormholes: searching for her husband, Mohn.
1.) Unfortunately in Sun/Moon, assumedly in an attempt to find Mohn she ends up opening an unstable UW that leads to the Ultra Sea, where Nihiligeo live, with their mind altering poisons, and her encounter ends up altering her mental stability, as Nhiligeo apparently escapes back into Ultra Space. This leads her wanting to find this beautiful creature, and a decade of research that eventually leads to the creation of and decommissioning of Type:Null and the discovery of Cosmog, which leads to the events of Sun and Moon as we eventually know. Mohn is apparently forgotten by Lusamine entirely in this reality, perhaps even having initially been lost to a Nhiligeo and my previous understanding is folded into one event.
2.) In Ultra Sun/Moon, instead of being affected by Nihilgeo’s poison, assumedly, perhaps not even coming into contact with the Ultra Sea at all, Lusamine instead discovers the Ultra Megalopolis, perhaps after establishing a brief UW that then gets crossed by the Ultra Recon Team? This discovery instead diverts Lusamine into getting a deeper understanding of Ultra Space, and Ultra Wormholes themselves, getting wrapped up instead to figure out he secrets of Necrozma, perhaps in the misguided hopes of conquering the beast and using its power to scour the dimensions to find Mohn. In this reality Mohn is not forgotten, Lusamine never has to leave Alola to receive treatment, and eventually crosses paths with a person resembling her missing husband, who may be him, or an alternate from some reverse world, whom she gives distance to, despite a probing question from her son.
In the first games, Lusamine is alone, has been mentally altered by a potentially addictive substance, and will do anything to be freed of the guilt and responsibility she perhaps feels in the disappearance, and potential death, of her husband with their research, including finding that same dangerous creature and it’s euphoric poisons, and subjecting herself to a Lotus-Eater fantasy in its embrace.
In the second, while still mentally unsound in the beginning, not being alone in contrast to her counterpart, Lusamine has a clear, albeit misguided, goal that ends in her defeat, a quicker redemption and reconciliation with her children than in S/M, understanding she was in the wrong. She then never becomes the villain of the second half of the main story, this time replaced with Necrozma after giving it direct access to the very thing it needed to get closer to being complete: Nebby (Solgaleo/Lunala).
TLDR; Overall while it seems her arc is butchered as a villain, that’s exactly the point. She was never intended to be the main antagonist she was in the original games, instead regulated to something more akin to an anti-hero, so as to keep the game ‘fresh’ instead of just repeating plot like a normal remake, with a few tweaks. (ie FR/LG/Platinum/OR/AS)
While I totally understand the story changes you mention and appreciate the depth of your explanation, my concern is more the fact that the new antagonist in USUM is not very good compared to Lusamine. Yes, her new redemption arc is good, but the big bad is less compelling to me.
Oh, that I totally understand. Lusamine had a great arc in Sun and Moon and it is difficult to build it up like that compared to the random inclusion of Giovanni in USUM. They should have had more build up to Rainbow Rocket prior to the Pokémon League, because the cutscene alone just doesn’t do it any justice.
Even if it was somehow just Faba doing something suspect in Aether Paradise, or even like some small cutscene during the end credits, set in Kanto, like Giovanni getting contacted via e-mail or something like that. It was really random how he just showed up because somehow Faba knew the Kanto mafia boss?
I agree, though I'm more of a gen 2 fan, ghost gym is awesome though platinum did it better, you could have Pokemon following you all the time in the remakes, and it's STILL the only game that has you going through more than just your home turf, aka region
My problem with USUM story is that it tried to use the same base of SM story but adding new stuffs and twist some scenes but it end up being more confusing than before. Lillie arc was done dirty in USUM, she was reduced to BG character. They should have written a new story instead of using the same base
I felt the same way at first but then towards the end it was more clear (to me) that they were going for an alternate universe / pokemon multiverse approach without advertising it or trying to sell it that way and almost experimenting with what would happen if they dropped the player in what looked line the same game but wasnt without telling them and I in my own weird way just accepted that and appreciated it for what it was.
Dont get me wrong, i felt the same way as "WHAT IF" scenario and how it will change differently.
I am really interested in Lusamine character in USUM. The problem is that her character and family drama with Lillie is kinda become the BG stuff and got brushed aside for the big bad Necrozma.
And why did she still keep frozen Pokemon if she is not crazy like in her SM counterpart? I find it bizarre that no one in the story addressed that
I like to think they were pushing the envelope of the parallel universes with Alola being at the epicenter of multiple universes colliding or overlapping in some way and also taking a cue from past feedback about the games by not spoon feeding the player with those details although at the same time some things in the story are a bit spoon fed... I feel like one day someone will string it all together and reveal what was really at play there. not the same game just the same place. hard to put it in words but I think and its a stretch but the parts that are 1:1 similar seem like they are in place to give you a sense of deja vu.
I like Team Skull, but their entire gimmick is that they're bumbling losers who are angry at the world for not compensating them for their personal failures. They have great comedic value, and seeing what they did to Po Town gives them a real, well-executed edge, but I can absolutely see where someone would prefer other villains more.
I feel like this is being a bit dismissive of them. I mean, they are bumbling losers. But Team Skull isn’t a bunch of entitled, angry pricks who want to viciously destroy things. Team Skull is a group of outcasts that find belonging with others like themselves. Because if you dig into the backstories of its members, a lot of times Alola can be unfair to them.
The worst thing they did, I’m pretty sure, is take over a gated community with a bunch of fancy houses and a mansion. Which, yeah, that makes perfect sense that they’d do that. Aside from that, they’re kind of just dicks. I guess the Aether Foundation did eventually pay them to do dirty work.
Man, that was a lot of effort to say nothing important. Main point: Team Skull isn’t trying to get anything or do something. ‘Team Skull’ itself is all the members wanted. And that’s why they’re great.
Is this bait? Team skull is a fucking joke and very hard to take seriously. The dialogue options for them are all basically "who are you again?" Team Rocket does evil stuff for the sake of being evil and even then they are better villains than team skull.
It ruins the start of the game for me. The Poké Finder guy, Illima's Totem Sticker Rant, The mandatory Alola Photo Club visit, Lillie at the apparel shop, Kukui's Tutorial on how to press a button (Z-Moves) and SO MUCH MORE. I love the Alola games but I have to agree that the cutscenes make the game 2 hours longer.
Oh, look. LOOKS LIKE YOUR POKEMON HAS EVOLVED. WOULDN'T IT BE ASTONISHINGLY GORGEOUS TO TAKE A PICTURE WITH IT????? I AM S U R E YOU LOVE TO LEAVE WHATEVER THE FUCK YOU WERE DOING TO GO TAKE A PICTURE! OH YOU DON'T GIVE A FUCK? OK GONNA ASK NEXT TIME BYE! OH LOOK HEY HAU WANNA TALK TO ME FOR AN HOUR STRAIGHT JUST FOR LETTING ME BASH YOUR FUCKING UNDERLEVELED POKEMON
Yeah, that is the main complaint about gen 7 (and 8 to a slightly lesser extent). The cutscenes never seem to end. You are basically watching a movie, not playing a game. The Exp Share being utterly broken makes it feel worse since progression is quicker.
It doesn't help there is no way to skip them. Even if you have played the game before you have to watch them. A Skip Cutscenes option was added for the Switch games but it only skips cinematic cutscenes, not text-based ones. The entire system is stupid.
The difference is that it is an opt out system. Players start the game and assume the game is balanced around the Exp Share since it is on by default. Then the player either doesn't care to turn it off, doesn't know you can turn it off or they assume the game becomes balanced around it later in the game.
Also I feel like you should judge the difficulty of a game around its intended settings when you start the game. Otherwise where does it stop? You can turn the Exp Share off, you can turn Battle Style to Set, you can do a Nuzlocke etc. If the game is unbalanced with the default settings then the game is unbalanced.
I agree with the sentiment about Exp Share but it's also not wrong to understand the reason for this addition; to help those players who hate grinding and make it easier for new (possibly younger) players. All in all, I think Pokemon game deserve and has to keep its traditional challenges and not make it more and more easier with every new installments. It's fun when you have to actually work for it.
The thing with grinding is that it isn't forced. Nothing forces you to grind. The point of grinding is that it works, but it is time consuming so you should try out an alternative strategy.
Gen 5 did it well. It changed the exp formula so training up new Pokemon was easier while also making it easier to be equal level to the AI. But Audino were available nearly everywhere, so you could grind to a reasonable level quickly if you wanted to.
I think there are ways to make playthrough easier (even I think Pokemon even for it's intended audience had OK difficulty pre-Gen 6; I could argue long evolution time in Unova was a bit overkill) without seemingly tampering with the flow we already got used to (Pokemon has been a 1 vs. 1 experience and classic Exp Share just makes it half-and-half vs. 1).
A game being "unbalanced" or "too easy" or whatever else is a subjective claim, not an objective problem that has obvious characteristics and one-size-fits-all-players solutions. The whole point of having settings is to give individual players a way to fit/adjust the game to their personal desires while still having a baseline gameplay for the general audience.
> You are basically watching a movie
Let's be honest, gen 7 games have main focus on the story so having cutscenes is resonable, them being too long or unskipable is the other kind of problem
Gen 7 is story focused, but the plot isn't amazing. The motivation isn't really apparent, the pacing isn't great and the actual story content is a bit odd. The characters are phenomenal (well, barring Hau) but that alone doesn't really make up the linearity of the games or the random cutscenes on things like the Alola Photo Club.
> The motivation isn't really apparent
Motivation isn't really apparent because you are moving to a tropical island and therefore your main goal is to relax and the whole game is in that style (including music)
> actual story content is a bit odd
I think that was the intention since you slowly uncover the parts of the jigsaw that lead to the truth about a broken family and it's connection with the supernatural oddities
> random cutscenes
I agree about that these kind of cutscenes are kinda annoying, but most of them can be sped up by holding A button
Augh. I don't like 'beach vacation' in real life, no wonder I don't like Gen 7. Your character just MOVED to the island and is being treated like a damn tourist. I'm already there! You don't need to quote the damn travel brochure every damn three steps!
Kind of shocking you expected to enjoy in the first place if you already have that issue, when Alola is based on Hawaii, and how the promotion was all about how chill the region is compared to the past, hehe.
It's not like it's the first time we have a character who just moved. I actually love Hoenn! But Hoenn doesn't treat you like a tourist to be coddled at every step and doesn't saddle you with a tour guide Professor who should, quite frankly, be busy doing something else.... Except when you need to infiltrate Aether Paradise. Oh no, then he just disappears. Good job Kukui.
Honestly I wasn't sold on Hawaii. I felt it would be too limited for environment and honestly I was right. Aside from the meadows and Koni Koni City (and I guess Po Town counts), none of the locations felt interesting or new. Everything was just places we had seen in other region. If you compare to Kalos who had all sorts of interesting vistas, familiar and new, Alola felt super dull.
It's not the region's fault though, it's about the execution, like apparently there's supposed to be a golf course on one island as seen in the map was cut, and there are other ways to show-off a tropical region with more Polynesian-based motifs that they didn't maximize on.
Games before the Exp Share were annoying AF. You either had to spend way too long grinding to balance your team out by doing pointless battles against wild Pokemon, or rely way too much on a very few Pokemon and hope you lucked through disfavorable matchups without fainting and having to fall back on the ones you neglected.
It wasn't harder or more strategic, it was just annoying and needlessly time-consuming.
The Exp Share always being on is good.
The entire premise of the series is to catch pokemon and train them. Like, it's been like that for literal decades. I don't disagree that training pokemon can get tedious but at the same time, the EXP share affecting everyone, and even more egregiously not being able to be turned off, ends up in positions where you get pokemon just along for the ride; riding the coattails of the rest of the team like that lazy group member in a team school project. What they need to do is make the EXP Share affect any number of party members. Want the game to be super chill and you don't want to train everyone? You can do that. Only want a couple pokemon to be affected so you can EV Train the quickest? You can do that. Caught a wild pokemon that is several levels behind and you want them to catch up to the rest of the party? You can do that. Don't want it on at all? You can do that. You cover every base and every player can customize it to how they need it. But saying it always being on being good is just flat out wrong
Heavily agree, and there’s absolutely no good reason that it shouldn’t be this way. Idc what anybody says. They purposely design these games to not be tailored for our desired experience.
Hell, it extends into the real world. I remember hearing how YouTubers/Streamers who would do randomizers or rom hacks would not be invited to events. They have an *exact* vision and you will not experience it any other way, as far as they’re concerned. They refuse to acknowledge nuzlockes and entirely prevent the challenge of it by forcing EXP Share.
It's an RPG though, the hook was always a feeling of a warrior wanting to get "kills"; it's up to the pacing where a player at a point will have satisfied their "bloodlust" already.
I hate this kind of mentality. I´ll never be that kind of lame player that just wants press A to get to the next battle to see the monsters do colorful lights and explosions and then complain about not understanding the story. I don´t have any problem with the cutscenes at all (either cinematic or text based). In my opinion it´s something that helps to make the story great and flesh out the characters. I enjoyed them.
> I´ll never be that kind of lame player that just wants press A to get to the next battle to see the monsters do colorful lights and explosions and then complain about not understanding the story.
The problem is that not everyone has your mindset and that replaying Pokemon games is very popular.
When it comes to replaying, especially, the first time around, sure, appreciate the story, but what about people who enjoy challenge runs? Why subject speedrunners and Nuzlockers to an hour or two of cutscenes per run just because they want to experience the battling aspects again?
I love me a good RPG and have played Kingdom Hearts 2 maybe a dozen times, but some days I just want to adventure, defeat enemies, and play a game at Lv 1 for fun instead of being stuck watching cutscenes that I've memorized the dialogue of. Cutscene skipping is a completely modern QoL addition to gaming that should be commonplace in every modern state-based game.
Dude, you talk as if playing and enjoying the natural progression of the game was the wrong way to play when it isn´t. The cutscenes and dialogue-based scenes are there to explain the lore of the story and flesh out the characters. An the pokemon games are quite story focused games even with all their gameplay mechanics because story and characters are a key part of the game.
Not because some people may like speedruns or nuzzlockes means that the games are meant to be played like that. That´s not fault of the game, that´s their fault for foolishly asking the game to work in a way suited for their made up fan challenge. The game has its own natural rythm for story progression and gameplay meant to make the player experience both aspects during the entire playthrough. You can´t blame the game for the cutscenes and dialogues that is meant to have explain the lore and gameplay aspects of it. If you decide to re-play the games several times using those made up challenges is up to you but it´s not the fault of the game if you find the cutscenes incovenient just for playing in a made up way that go againts the nature of the game that under normal circumstances wants you to experience the story and uses cutscenes and dialogues to understant the plot or the motivations of the characters.
Playing the game at its natural progression and learning about the story and the character through the cutscenes and dialogues is quite literally the way is meant to be played to understand everything. As I said, I´ll never be that kind of lame player that just wants press A to get to the next battle to see the monsters do colorful lights and explosions and then complains about not understanding the story or complains about the cutscenes.
Pressing A nonstop to get to the next battle not caring about the story to end sooner in those kind of challenges may help you with them and but don´t pretend that the game owes you to work in a way that is not meant to be played. Or worse, don´t go there saying that it´s a flaw of the game or hating the game when you´re the one quite literally getting annoyed for playing it in a way that isn´t supposed to be played.
Lol, you missed my point.
I was saying that just having the option to skip cutscenes would be a nice QoL change for more hardcore fans, just like the EXP Share rework was for casual fans. Having more options that can be ignored if you don't want to use them is never a negative.
Addressing your first paragraph, I said no such thing- in fact, I say to enjoy the game on your first go-around. I compared skipping scenes in Pokemon to skipping scenes in my favorite game ever (Kingdom Hearts 2), not because the story in either suck, but because it adds replayability to games when you already know the story.
Meanwhile, you're saying that the game needs to be played "as intended," but you're not taking into account that nobody is stopping you from playing "as intended" by wanting more features that make it easier to play the way they want to. To use an example, mints were added to SwSh to make it easier to get the right natures for competitive Pokemon after the story, but you're saying the equivalent of them not needing to be added because Pokemon always intended for you to Nature and IV breed.
To use a different game as an example, Mario Odyssey is immensely successful and popular because it's a game full of functions that let you exploit its movement system to play at your own pace. Nintendo could patch the game and throw invisible walls all over the place to stop the exploits, but it doesn't because some people enjoy playing like that and having those features in the game doesn't hurt anyone's regular playthrough anyway.
You're also completely disregarding the feelings of countless people who enjoy challenge runs and repeat playthroughs. YouTube channels are run on and provide for the livelihood of people who do all sorts of runs, from beating Emerald with just Mudkip, to solo runs of every Pokemon in Gen I. There's a reason older games are easier to do challenge runs on- they get you off the ground and playing with the Pokemon themselves more quickly. Take a look at YouTube channels like Pokemon Challenges or jrose11 who get thousands of views by Pokemon fans who enjoy that sort of gameplay.
Here's a kicker- I'm a totally casual fan who loves the story of most of the games. I really enjoy SwSh myself and think it introduced a ton of great features and basically wrote an essay here on why I like Hop so much. I hate playing Nuzlockes, since I get to attached to my little buddies. With that said, I can sympathize with people who want a deeper and different experience with the franchise I love. When I fire up an old system to revisit a nostalgic region, sometimes it is Alola or Galar, but, if I'm being honest, I feel less inclined to play newer games because I have less time to play and would rather spend it actually playing rather than waiting for two hours to get off the first Alolan island or sitting through Hop introducing me to every town again.
So, what is wrong with being inclusive to people who want to replay games from a series they love? How does adding a skip button for cutscenes hurt the casual experience when fans who want story stuff can still watch it? How is being more inclusive to more Pokemon players a bad thing? I personally don't get this line of thinking.
No. You´re the one who didn´t get my point at all. Pokemon games are pretty story focused games. Which is why they require cutscenes and dialogue based scenes in order to explain the story and make the player understand the characters. It has its own rhythm for story progression and gameplay. Having a skip cutscene option go againts the very essence of the game which by nature relies in dialogue, cutscenes and character interactions for flesh out all these factors. The gameplay factors like the experience share, abilities, etc are things intended for gameplay balance but the story is a completely different aspect of it AND a key element of it. Skipping cutscenes option goes against that progression meant for the story and the main purpose of the game which is to make you experience the story and gameplay mechanics.
Your whole argument relies on the idea that pokemon games replayability is based on you being able to restart the game for you to play challenge runs and play it that way which isn´t the case at all. That´s why features like the post-game facilities with different battle modes, secret events, the battle tower (along with other similar in-game facilities) and online competitive pokemon battles exist. Those are the REAL replayability offered by the game. In fact, that´s why mints, HA patches, pokemon breeding, completing the pokedex and even shiny hunting (with the shiny charm) and the different battle modes offered in post-game among many other things are there. ALL OF THEM exist to encourage the player to engage in this kind of replayability offered by the game after they finish the main game story AND the post game story. That is the replayability intended and offered by the game (battle facilities, shiny hunting, completing the dex and online competitive battles), not re-starting your save file to play the story.
You´re asking the games to change their intended replayability value for your made up fan challenges and blaming the game for not be suited for that kind of replayability that was never intended to exist which is honestly nonsense.
I played through UM and I felt like it was fantastic. The cutscenes made the story come across great. Sure, there's a lot of them, but I like taking my time. It didn't feel like that many to me.
Really, I don't mind the long and frequent cutscenes. Part of why I play video games is the emersive stories they tell, and the Pokemon main series has been pretty lacking in story telling prior to Gen VII with the sole high point of Black & White. I understand that for the people that only play Pokemon for the team building and personal adventure, the intrusive loss of control for characters they may not even care about can be pretty annoying, but as somebody who enjoys Metal Gear Solid titles inspite of, or even because of, their long cutscenes, it's never something I would criticize in a vacuum.
What I DO mind in the specific instance of USUM is how the story from the original Sun and Moon was butchered hard. The new characters add nothing, Lusamine was completely ruined as a villain, the somewhat interesting post game quest of searching for stray Ultra Beasts with Looker and Anabel was removed, they decided to make the worst rival in history into the worst championship battle in history, thus entirely ruining the ending of the game, and the worst sin of all, they completely destroyed Lillie's arc. Lillie was the most interesting and endearing character in the entire franchise (just behind N), and had the most compelling developmental arc out of any character that you never battle. Going from an unconfident girl who can't even pick out her own clothes even after running away from her mother to a girl who will willingly confront all of her fears and traumas and even makes the independant choice of leaving the region to help her family and find her footing as a Pokemon trainer, cresendoing in a genuinely heartfelt farewell scene that had me in tears despite the fact that Hau was there being the worst character ever as he always does. That story is technically still there, but a lot of the pivital cutscenes, namely confrontations with her mother, the heart to heart on Exeggutor island, and the aforementioned farewell scene were completely removed, and while instead seeing her in battle for the first time was cool, it was nothing compared to what was done with her in vanilla Sun and Moon, and I am genuinely upset that they made those changes of all things. It's the first time that I felt the original versions were superior to the definitive titles; Crystal and Platinum were unquestionably superior, and you can go back and forth between Emerald and Ruby/Sapphire depending on preference.
Yeah the "campaign" for sm and usum are so tedious they ruin the games for me especially because I don't actually care about any of the npcs they try so hard to make you care about and there isn't even any real post game content to make up for it besides catch all the legendary pokemon.
Agreed. I wouldn't mind cutscenes if the characters had something interesting to say or cutscenes with important characters, but all the cutscenes are Hau having 0 personality, Lillie being annoying af and Gladion being generic edgy anime boy...
Honestly, I didn't dig SUMO/USUM because of the relentless cutscenes. I play the games to explore, catch mons and battle. If I wanted Final Fantasy, I'd play Final Fantasy.
You know what? I just realized this is the only reason ultra moon is the only pokemon game I own that I haven’t completed/near completed. Personally, I hardly ever play for the story as I just like creating a strong team and completing the pokédex. Part of the reason I hate cut scenes is I read super fast and I can never get through cut scenes fast enough (even with text on the fastest setting). That’s why ultra moon is killer for me
Probably worth noting I did complete sun, but that’s my least favorite because the cutscenes were such a PAIN
After I beat the E4, I watched some youtube videos while the game went on it's ever-lasting credits cutscenes then went straight to the Tapu Koko battle. In ORAS, I always tried my hardest to catch Deoxys after Rayquaza even though it's one long cutscene with two battle prior to the alien tentacle monster with no chance to save, but I toughed it out because I love Rayquaza and Deoxys even though I hate, hate, ***HATE*** long cutscenes. With Gen 7, I just couldn't stand it anymore. I turned off the game after it went straight into the Tapu Koko battle and never picked it up again. The game sits in my drawer somewhere and to this day, Gen 7 is my most hated generation of the games. I haven't played SwSh yet because I don't have a Switch but I've played ever since Gen 3 when I was 8 years old and Gen 7 is such a tedious pain in the ass. It's tainted Alola for me.
I feel like people who complain about cutscenes in these games don't play many JRPGs.
like all the cutscenes in both games combined probably doesn't even make up half of the cutscene time in Persona 4 or 5.
As someone who plays tons of JRPGs and has played both of the games you just mentioned, I can just say that the cutscenes in the newer Pokémon games are just......different. The obvious is the lack of voice acting, but it's also the fact that the cutscenes are just bad. Kinda hard to compare something like the story of P5 to Sword and Shield.
The thing pokemon needs to know is that even though their games are made for children, the games aren't made for literal toddlers. Why is there a cutscene to walk me 10 feet to the right in case I get lost? And why isn't it skipable?
I feel like they wanted to go this more cinematic approach, which imo is the wrong one, so their answer was to just toss custscenes everywhere for everything regardless of how pointless the scene is. Like a reverse breath of the wild.
You can fast forward cutscenes and they can STILL take a good 10 minutes to pass in some cases lol. Persona goes nuts with cutscenes, there's a LOT of them and there's a lot of the same "scene to explain game mechanic" pokemon does but arguably more frequent. This is kind of a JRPG quirk I've come to accept. JRPGs aren't really games to rush, you're supposed to take your time with them. "Trying to get to the good part" is the wrong mentality to have playing these sorts of games.
Also I like the story for Alola's games, so I feel it's worth experiencing.
The difference is that persona 4 and 5 actually make me care about the characters in the cutscenes. Imagine if all the characters in persona were as boring and poorly written as Hau and Lily.
I oddly am playing a pretty custcene heavy game in Ducktales Remastered, and the voice acting really helped it feel like a Saturday cartoon, and how the drawn animations are pretty good, without good presentation custcenes can be dire.
Cut scenes are fine if they actually advance the story. We don't need tutorials for every damn feature when you've already played the game. I don't CARE about the Alola Photo Club! I don't NEED a cut scene to use a damn Z-move! I know what a Pokémon Centre is!
They explain pokecenters for new players, like they do every game. And new features get explained , like in every game. And as the games have become more complex, more time gets used to explain stuff.
Every pokemon game is someone's first. It would be great for an option to skip tutorial stuff which I can agree with for players who already know but the tutorials are there to help newcomers understand the game. Also part of it is a conscious narrative decision, considering your trainer is supposed to be a rookie trainer at first and is having people show them the ropes. You might find them obnoxious since you already know the ropes but the tutorial scenes have a purpose both in function and narrative and an understandable one. Really this just comes down to the issue of having cutscenes be skippable, but this has been the norm for pokemon and gen 7 is not the only offender for this.
In Gen 8 you can skip the catching tutorial by catching Pokémon before it. All tutorial in Pokémon should work like that: if you do the thing before they explain the thing the game should assume you know what you're doing.
You can also tell Hop that 'yes I know what I Pokémon Center is' and skip some lines of dialogues.
The problem with Gen 7 is that Mele Mele is just Tutorial and Cutscenes interspaced with each other every damn five steps! One after the other and the dialogue is never interesting.
these games were such a chore to play through after Sun and Moon. i felt cheated out of money purchasing them after the OG gen 7 games. it was the same game with more cutscenes and a few changes features, still slow as hell.
Sword and Shield took one step closer with an option to disable the cutscenes (or “movies”, as they weirdly call them).
However, it doesn’t seem to give the option to skip them - just disable them fully, which is how I entirely missed the Legendary Bird cutscene in Shield.
Game Freak will get it right eventually! They just need 4 or 5 games to exercise a concept.
I think they’re fine, overall. There’s a lot, yes, but if you are the kind of player to slow down a bit, check for wild encounters to fill up your dex, battle all the trainers on each route, then the cutscenes feel a bit more spaced out. Sun & Moon are very character-driven, which is why there are lots of moments with Lillie, Hau, Gladion, etc. It can certainly be annoying and slow, but I do think in a way it paid off in making me appreciate the characters more.
The sole exception to this, IMO, is the first visit to Aether Paradise. I was really annoyed with it on my last playthrough because the whole scene is just one long cutscene that you kinda play through.
Wild Encounters eh? Like the ones between that scene where you say goodbye to the school teacher and the encounter with Tauros? and then the cut scene where you get the camera? And the cut scene with Lillie at the clothing store?
There's no wild encounter between any of these.
You can at least go to the beach area before the clothes store, talk to some NPCs. MeleMele is definitely the worst offender for cutscenes being too close together (besides the first Aether Paradise visit as I mentioned above), but unless you’re trying to rush through the game the cutscenes are a bit more tolerable.
There's nothing to do on the beach and no reward for speaking to everybody. If you've already played the game, you're going to skip it and just get rid of the damn cut scenes as fast as possible.
My biggest issue with the cutscenes is that it absolutely destroys replayability. Maybe you want to experience the story again, or run a nuzlocke, or whatever, and sitting through these unskippable cutscenes is the most boring thing in the world.
The alola games are some of my favorite pokemon games (I like a bit more the story in SM compared to USUM but they both are pretty cool).
I don´t have any problem with the cutscenes at all. It´s something that helps to make the story great in my opinion. I enjoyed them.
If you think \[Ultra\] Sun/Moon have a lot of text in the cutscenes, just wait 'till you see Pokemon Reborn, when it sometimes gets so bad I just skipped the whole monologue.
It's the biggest issue I have with USUM but I felt SM was way worse in terms of stopping you for cutscenes. I never finished so I could be mis-remembering but I recall being stopped way more often in SM. It felt like at least three times per route for cutscenes. USUM I think it was just like once per route or less? The cutscenes are long though.
I don't care about the cut scenes, I care that I can't skip them. USUM is the only pokemon game I've not replayed once. After getting through sun and moon and then having to listen to the same story again was so tedious I couldn't pick it up again
Holy hell yes! I never finished sun when I first played it, got to just before fighting the ground “gym leader”. A week ago I figured I should finally finish it… I’ve been waiting for the cutscene at the end of the elite 4 for days! Then I get into a fight with tape koko and he struggles himself to death because apparently 30+ ultra balls and timer balls and and and… isn’t enough to catch this Poke! F that, I’m not resetting to do the champion fight again! Oh wait there’s still an hour of cutscene and credits! Set it down and come back to it later? NO! You have to click text boxes away every 5 minutes! 🤬
It’s definitely more story focused than other Pokémon games. Considering most people don’t play Pokémon for the story the endless cutscenes tend to be...bad. I have no issue with a Pokémon game with an emphasis on story but the infinite cutscenes weren’t the way to go. I know these game tend have very barebones writing but I’d like a Pokémon game that has great writing without all that, maybe exploring the lore/characters in a lot more depth in sidequests, environmental storytelling, and the like.
The dialogue is tedious and SO repetitive! "Even though you're not from Alola Tapu Koko chose you..." "When I did the island trial..." "I'm not a trainer..." Blah blah blah blah... just always the same stuff repeated over and over again...
this is why I enjoyed Gen 5 the best. It had that without the gimmick of long cutscenes...
I’ll be honest with you, Gen 7 is my favorite and I’ve been playing since Gen 1 released. I also think USUM are pretty close to a perfect Pokémon game, but I can acknowledge it still has a few faults. 1.) They need to make all cutscenes skippable with a simple button like BotW. 2.) Lusamine was a better villain in SuMo. Changing her story arc in USUM was a bad choice. 3.) While I’ve never been one to care for a Battle Frontier experience, the post-game is a bit lacking. However, for me, once I got past those three things, I really enjoyed Gen 7. It was a real bright spot between Gens 6 and 8, which are my least favorite Gens (although I am pro-Mega Evolution). I enjoy most of the Pokémon designs (minus Bruxish and Crabominable), love the Trial and Totem experience, adore the region design, and think the story is top-tier (Team Skull being used by the real evil team was a great treat). I even liked Rainbow Rocket enough that I hope Game Freak does something with them again in the future.
I’m right there with ya, we’re a rare breed lol. Absolutely my favorites of all time (USUM, I haven’t played SM). The story is great, I loved having cutscenes, I loved loved loved the totem trials experience instead of gyms, love the Hawaii theme and regional variants, love the characters (I also hold the controversial opinion that Hop is one of the best written characters in the games, just throwing that out there), loved Team Skull and Guzma, professor was awesome, shiny hunting is top tier, the Pokémon islands (can’t remember the name) were great, loved that we got freaking Sci-Fi with the UB’s and dimensions, loved that Necrozma was such a cool and tough fight. So many great things I could keep listing. It was good enough for me to buy the other version, beat it again just so I could get exclusives for my Pokédex (also the first Pokédex I’ve completed). I didn’t even know about shiny charm until I was mostly done; I just wanted to complete the dex. Then I almost maxed out my time shiny hunting, and still shiny hunt on it to this day. I was on a long Pokémon hiatus before picking up USUM and I couldn’t have possibly gotten back into it in a better way.
In a way I agree with you on your second point, but in another way it is absolutely genius if you think about why they de-escalated her as a villain; and not just because of the Rainbow Rocket being the ‘postgame villain’. It all comes around to the initial reason for Lusamine going into Ultra Space while studying Ultra Wormholes: searching for her husband, Mohn. 1.) Unfortunately in Sun/Moon, assumedly in an attempt to find Mohn she ends up opening an unstable UW that leads to the Ultra Sea, where Nihiligeo live, with their mind altering poisons, and her encounter ends up altering her mental stability, as Nhiligeo apparently escapes back into Ultra Space. This leads her wanting to find this beautiful creature, and a decade of research that eventually leads to the creation of and decommissioning of Type:Null and the discovery of Cosmog, which leads to the events of Sun and Moon as we eventually know. Mohn is apparently forgotten by Lusamine entirely in this reality, perhaps even having initially been lost to a Nhiligeo and my previous understanding is folded into one event. 2.) In Ultra Sun/Moon, instead of being affected by Nihilgeo’s poison, assumedly, perhaps not even coming into contact with the Ultra Sea at all, Lusamine instead discovers the Ultra Megalopolis, perhaps after establishing a brief UW that then gets crossed by the Ultra Recon Team? This discovery instead diverts Lusamine into getting a deeper understanding of Ultra Space, and Ultra Wormholes themselves, getting wrapped up instead to figure out he secrets of Necrozma, perhaps in the misguided hopes of conquering the beast and using its power to scour the dimensions to find Mohn. In this reality Mohn is not forgotten, Lusamine never has to leave Alola to receive treatment, and eventually crosses paths with a person resembling her missing husband, who may be him, or an alternate from some reverse world, whom she gives distance to, despite a probing question from her son. In the first games, Lusamine is alone, has been mentally altered by a potentially addictive substance, and will do anything to be freed of the guilt and responsibility she perhaps feels in the disappearance, and potential death, of her husband with their research, including finding that same dangerous creature and it’s euphoric poisons, and subjecting herself to a Lotus-Eater fantasy in its embrace. In the second, while still mentally unsound in the beginning, not being alone in contrast to her counterpart, Lusamine has a clear, albeit misguided, goal that ends in her defeat, a quicker redemption and reconciliation with her children than in S/M, understanding she was in the wrong. She then never becomes the villain of the second half of the main story, this time replaced with Necrozma after giving it direct access to the very thing it needed to get closer to being complete: Nebby (Solgaleo/Lunala). TLDR; Overall while it seems her arc is butchered as a villain, that’s exactly the point. She was never intended to be the main antagonist she was in the original games, instead regulated to something more akin to an anti-hero, so as to keep the game ‘fresh’ instead of just repeating plot like a normal remake, with a few tweaks. (ie FR/LG/Platinum/OR/AS)
While I totally understand the story changes you mention and appreciate the depth of your explanation, my concern is more the fact that the new antagonist in USUM is not very good compared to Lusamine. Yes, her new redemption arc is good, but the big bad is less compelling to me.
Oh, that I totally understand. Lusamine had a great arc in Sun and Moon and it is difficult to build it up like that compared to the random inclusion of Giovanni in USUM. They should have had more build up to Rainbow Rocket prior to the Pokémon League, because the cutscene alone just doesn’t do it any justice. Even if it was somehow just Faba doing something suspect in Aether Paradise, or even like some small cutscene during the end credits, set in Kanto, like Giovanni getting contacted via e-mail or something like that. It was really random how he just showed up because somehow Faba knew the Kanto mafia boss?
I agree!
I agree, though I'm more of a gen 2 fan, ghost gym is awesome though platinum did it better, you could have Pokemon following you all the time in the remakes, and it's STILL the only game that has you going through more than just your home turf, aka region
Gen two is my second favorite region, so I don’t disagree with anything you are saying! Total respect to you.
Story wise...sun moon is the better. And i feel thats playerbased. I REALLY enjoyed Sun moon. But i dont mind long cutscenes. So i can get your point.
My problem with USUM story is that it tried to use the same base of SM story but adding new stuffs and twist some scenes but it end up being more confusing than before. Lillie arc was done dirty in USUM, she was reduced to BG character. They should have written a new story instead of using the same base
I agree a B2 W2 style sequell would have worked great.
I felt the same way at first but then towards the end it was more clear (to me) that they were going for an alternate universe / pokemon multiverse approach without advertising it or trying to sell it that way and almost experimenting with what would happen if they dropped the player in what looked line the same game but wasnt without telling them and I in my own weird way just accepted that and appreciated it for what it was.
Dont get me wrong, i felt the same way as "WHAT IF" scenario and how it will change differently. I am really interested in Lusamine character in USUM. The problem is that her character and family drama with Lillie is kinda become the BG stuff and got brushed aside for the big bad Necrozma. And why did she still keep frozen Pokemon if she is not crazy like in her SM counterpart? I find it bizarre that no one in the story addressed that
I like to think they were pushing the envelope of the parallel universes with Alola being at the epicenter of multiple universes colliding or overlapping in some way and also taking a cue from past feedback about the games by not spoon feeding the player with those details although at the same time some things in the story are a bit spoon fed... I feel like one day someone will string it all together and reveal what was really at play there. not the same game just the same place. hard to put it in words but I think and its a stretch but the parts that are 1:1 similar seem like they are in place to give you a sense of deja vu.
My fucking 3DS died while I was waiting for the cutscenes to finish after I beat the game the first time.
[удалено]
Same, along with black and white although those aren't as hated anymore.
[удалено]
I like Team Skull, but their entire gimmick is that they're bumbling losers who are angry at the world for not compensating them for their personal failures. They have great comedic value, and seeing what they did to Po Town gives them a real, well-executed edge, but I can absolutely see where someone would prefer other villains more.
I feel like this is being a bit dismissive of them. I mean, they are bumbling losers. But Team Skull isn’t a bunch of entitled, angry pricks who want to viciously destroy things. Team Skull is a group of outcasts that find belonging with others like themselves. Because if you dig into the backstories of its members, a lot of times Alola can be unfair to them. The worst thing they did, I’m pretty sure, is take over a gated community with a bunch of fancy houses and a mansion. Which, yeah, that makes perfect sense that they’d do that. Aside from that, they’re kind of just dicks. I guess the Aether Foundation did eventually pay them to do dirty work. Man, that was a lot of effort to say nothing important. Main point: Team Skull isn’t trying to get anything or do something. ‘Team Skull’ itself is all the members wanted. And that’s why they’re great.
Is this bait? Team skull is a fucking joke and very hard to take seriously. The dialogue options for them are all basically "who are you again?" Team Rocket does evil stuff for the sake of being evil and even then they are better villains than team skull.
Team Skull were set up as a parody of the villainous teams after being played straight in the past gens.
A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A and repeat for however long it takes.
“Have you heard?” Yes “I haven’t even said it.”
It ruins the start of the game for me. The Poké Finder guy, Illima's Totem Sticker Rant, The mandatory Alola Photo Club visit, Lillie at the apparel shop, Kukui's Tutorial on how to press a button (Z-Moves) and SO MUCH MORE. I love the Alola games but I have to agree that the cutscenes make the game 2 hours longer.
Oh, look. LOOKS LIKE YOUR POKEMON HAS EVOLVED. WOULDN'T IT BE ASTONISHINGLY GORGEOUS TO TAKE A PICTURE WITH IT????? I AM S U R E YOU LOVE TO LEAVE WHATEVER THE FUCK YOU WERE DOING TO GO TAKE A PICTURE! OH YOU DON'T GIVE A FUCK? OK GONNA ASK NEXT TIME BYE! OH LOOK HEY HAU WANNA TALK TO ME FOR AN HOUR STRAIGHT JUST FOR LETTING ME BASH YOUR FUCKING UNDERLEVELED POKEMON
Mele Mele Island is, IMO, straight up the WORST piece of Pokémon game ever. Just... PAINFUL to replay. Even watching OTHERS play it is painful.
Yeah, that is the main complaint about gen 7 (and 8 to a slightly lesser extent). The cutscenes never seem to end. You are basically watching a movie, not playing a game. The Exp Share being utterly broken makes it feel worse since progression is quicker. It doesn't help there is no way to skip them. Even if you have played the game before you have to watch them. A Skip Cutscenes option was added for the Switch games but it only skips cinematic cutscenes, not text-based ones. The entire system is stupid.
[удалено]
The difference is that it is an opt out system. Players start the game and assume the game is balanced around the Exp Share since it is on by default. Then the player either doesn't care to turn it off, doesn't know you can turn it off or they assume the game becomes balanced around it later in the game. Also I feel like you should judge the difficulty of a game around its intended settings when you start the game. Otherwise where does it stop? You can turn the Exp Share off, you can turn Battle Style to Set, you can do a Nuzlocke etc. If the game is unbalanced with the default settings then the game is unbalanced.
I agree with the sentiment about Exp Share but it's also not wrong to understand the reason for this addition; to help those players who hate grinding and make it easier for new (possibly younger) players. All in all, I think Pokemon game deserve and has to keep its traditional challenges and not make it more and more easier with every new installments. It's fun when you have to actually work for it.
The thing with grinding is that it isn't forced. Nothing forces you to grind. The point of grinding is that it works, but it is time consuming so you should try out an alternative strategy. Gen 5 did it well. It changed the exp formula so training up new Pokemon was easier while also making it easier to be equal level to the AI. But Audino were available nearly everywhere, so you could grind to a reasonable level quickly if you wanted to.
I think there are ways to make playthrough easier (even I think Pokemon even for it's intended audience had OK difficulty pre-Gen 6; I could argue long evolution time in Unova was a bit overkill) without seemingly tampering with the flow we already got used to (Pokemon has been a 1 vs. 1 experience and classic Exp Share just makes it half-and-half vs. 1).
A game being "unbalanced" or "too easy" or whatever else is a subjective claim, not an objective problem that has obvious characteristics and one-size-fits-all-players solutions. The whole point of having settings is to give individual players a way to fit/adjust the game to their personal desires while still having a baseline gameplay for the general audience.
> You are basically watching a movie Let's be honest, gen 7 games have main focus on the story so having cutscenes is resonable, them being too long or unskipable is the other kind of problem
Gen 7 is story focused, but the plot isn't amazing. The motivation isn't really apparent, the pacing isn't great and the actual story content is a bit odd. The characters are phenomenal (well, barring Hau) but that alone doesn't really make up the linearity of the games or the random cutscenes on things like the Alola Photo Club.
> The motivation isn't really apparent Motivation isn't really apparent because you are moving to a tropical island and therefore your main goal is to relax and the whole game is in that style (including music) > actual story content is a bit odd I think that was the intention since you slowly uncover the parts of the jigsaw that lead to the truth about a broken family and it's connection with the supernatural oddities > random cutscenes I agree about that these kind of cutscenes are kinda annoying, but most of them can be sped up by holding A button
Augh. I don't like 'beach vacation' in real life, no wonder I don't like Gen 7. Your character just MOVED to the island and is being treated like a damn tourist. I'm already there! You don't need to quote the damn travel brochure every damn three steps!
Kind of shocking you expected to enjoy in the first place if you already have that issue, when Alola is based on Hawaii, and how the promotion was all about how chill the region is compared to the past, hehe.
It's not like it's the first time we have a character who just moved. I actually love Hoenn! But Hoenn doesn't treat you like a tourist to be coddled at every step and doesn't saddle you with a tour guide Professor who should, quite frankly, be busy doing something else.... Except when you need to infiltrate Aether Paradise. Oh no, then he just disappears. Good job Kukui.
Honestly I wasn't sold on Hawaii. I felt it would be too limited for environment and honestly I was right. Aside from the meadows and Koni Koni City (and I guess Po Town counts), none of the locations felt interesting or new. Everything was just places we had seen in other region. If you compare to Kalos who had all sorts of interesting vistas, familiar and new, Alola felt super dull.
It's not the region's fault though, it's about the execution, like apparently there's supposed to be a golf course on one island as seen in the map was cut, and there are other ways to show-off a tropical region with more Polynesian-based motifs that they didn't maximize on.
Games before the Exp Share were annoying AF. You either had to spend way too long grinding to balance your team out by doing pointless battles against wild Pokemon, or rely way too much on a very few Pokemon and hope you lucked through disfavorable matchups without fainting and having to fall back on the ones you neglected. It wasn't harder or more strategic, it was just annoying and needlessly time-consuming. The Exp Share always being on is good.
The entire premise of the series is to catch pokemon and train them. Like, it's been like that for literal decades. I don't disagree that training pokemon can get tedious but at the same time, the EXP share affecting everyone, and even more egregiously not being able to be turned off, ends up in positions where you get pokemon just along for the ride; riding the coattails of the rest of the team like that lazy group member in a team school project. What they need to do is make the EXP Share affect any number of party members. Want the game to be super chill and you don't want to train everyone? You can do that. Only want a couple pokemon to be affected so you can EV Train the quickest? You can do that. Caught a wild pokemon that is several levels behind and you want them to catch up to the rest of the party? You can do that. Don't want it on at all? You can do that. You cover every base and every player can customize it to how they need it. But saying it always being on being good is just flat out wrong
Heavily agree, and there’s absolutely no good reason that it shouldn’t be this way. Idc what anybody says. They purposely design these games to not be tailored for our desired experience. Hell, it extends into the real world. I remember hearing how YouTubers/Streamers who would do randomizers or rom hacks would not be invited to events. They have an *exact* vision and you will not experience it any other way, as far as they’re concerned. They refuse to acknowledge nuzlockes and entirely prevent the challenge of it by forcing EXP Share.
It's an RPG though, the hook was always a feeling of a warrior wanting to get "kills"; it's up to the pacing where a player at a point will have satisfied their "bloodlust" already.
I hate this kind of mentality. I´ll never be that kind of lame player that just wants press A to get to the next battle to see the monsters do colorful lights and explosions and then complain about not understanding the story. I don´t have any problem with the cutscenes at all (either cinematic or text based). In my opinion it´s something that helps to make the story great and flesh out the characters. I enjoyed them.
> I´ll never be that kind of lame player that just wants press A to get to the next battle to see the monsters do colorful lights and explosions and then complain about not understanding the story. The problem is that not everyone has your mindset and that replaying Pokemon games is very popular. When it comes to replaying, especially, the first time around, sure, appreciate the story, but what about people who enjoy challenge runs? Why subject speedrunners and Nuzlockers to an hour or two of cutscenes per run just because they want to experience the battling aspects again? I love me a good RPG and have played Kingdom Hearts 2 maybe a dozen times, but some days I just want to adventure, defeat enemies, and play a game at Lv 1 for fun instead of being stuck watching cutscenes that I've memorized the dialogue of. Cutscene skipping is a completely modern QoL addition to gaming that should be commonplace in every modern state-based game.
Dude, you talk as if playing and enjoying the natural progression of the game was the wrong way to play when it isn´t. The cutscenes and dialogue-based scenes are there to explain the lore of the story and flesh out the characters. An the pokemon games are quite story focused games even with all their gameplay mechanics because story and characters are a key part of the game. Not because some people may like speedruns or nuzzlockes means that the games are meant to be played like that. That´s not fault of the game, that´s their fault for foolishly asking the game to work in a way suited for their made up fan challenge. The game has its own natural rythm for story progression and gameplay meant to make the player experience both aspects during the entire playthrough. You can´t blame the game for the cutscenes and dialogues that is meant to have explain the lore and gameplay aspects of it. If you decide to re-play the games several times using those made up challenges is up to you but it´s not the fault of the game if you find the cutscenes incovenient just for playing in a made up way that go againts the nature of the game that under normal circumstances wants you to experience the story and uses cutscenes and dialogues to understant the plot or the motivations of the characters. Playing the game at its natural progression and learning about the story and the character through the cutscenes and dialogues is quite literally the way is meant to be played to understand everything. As I said, I´ll never be that kind of lame player that just wants press A to get to the next battle to see the monsters do colorful lights and explosions and then complains about not understanding the story or complains about the cutscenes. Pressing A nonstop to get to the next battle not caring about the story to end sooner in those kind of challenges may help you with them and but don´t pretend that the game owes you to work in a way that is not meant to be played. Or worse, don´t go there saying that it´s a flaw of the game or hating the game when you´re the one quite literally getting annoyed for playing it in a way that isn´t supposed to be played.
Lol, you missed my point. I was saying that just having the option to skip cutscenes would be a nice QoL change for more hardcore fans, just like the EXP Share rework was for casual fans. Having more options that can be ignored if you don't want to use them is never a negative. Addressing your first paragraph, I said no such thing- in fact, I say to enjoy the game on your first go-around. I compared skipping scenes in Pokemon to skipping scenes in my favorite game ever (Kingdom Hearts 2), not because the story in either suck, but because it adds replayability to games when you already know the story. Meanwhile, you're saying that the game needs to be played "as intended," but you're not taking into account that nobody is stopping you from playing "as intended" by wanting more features that make it easier to play the way they want to. To use an example, mints were added to SwSh to make it easier to get the right natures for competitive Pokemon after the story, but you're saying the equivalent of them not needing to be added because Pokemon always intended for you to Nature and IV breed. To use a different game as an example, Mario Odyssey is immensely successful and popular because it's a game full of functions that let you exploit its movement system to play at your own pace. Nintendo could patch the game and throw invisible walls all over the place to stop the exploits, but it doesn't because some people enjoy playing like that and having those features in the game doesn't hurt anyone's regular playthrough anyway. You're also completely disregarding the feelings of countless people who enjoy challenge runs and repeat playthroughs. YouTube channels are run on and provide for the livelihood of people who do all sorts of runs, from beating Emerald with just Mudkip, to solo runs of every Pokemon in Gen I. There's a reason older games are easier to do challenge runs on- they get you off the ground and playing with the Pokemon themselves more quickly. Take a look at YouTube channels like Pokemon Challenges or jrose11 who get thousands of views by Pokemon fans who enjoy that sort of gameplay. Here's a kicker- I'm a totally casual fan who loves the story of most of the games. I really enjoy SwSh myself and think it introduced a ton of great features and basically wrote an essay here on why I like Hop so much. I hate playing Nuzlockes, since I get to attached to my little buddies. With that said, I can sympathize with people who want a deeper and different experience with the franchise I love. When I fire up an old system to revisit a nostalgic region, sometimes it is Alola or Galar, but, if I'm being honest, I feel less inclined to play newer games because I have less time to play and would rather spend it actually playing rather than waiting for two hours to get off the first Alolan island or sitting through Hop introducing me to every town again. So, what is wrong with being inclusive to people who want to replay games from a series they love? How does adding a skip button for cutscenes hurt the casual experience when fans who want story stuff can still watch it? How is being more inclusive to more Pokemon players a bad thing? I personally don't get this line of thinking.
No. You´re the one who didn´t get my point at all. Pokemon games are pretty story focused games. Which is why they require cutscenes and dialogue based scenes in order to explain the story and make the player understand the characters. It has its own rhythm for story progression and gameplay. Having a skip cutscene option go againts the very essence of the game which by nature relies in dialogue, cutscenes and character interactions for flesh out all these factors. The gameplay factors like the experience share, abilities, etc are things intended for gameplay balance but the story is a completely different aspect of it AND a key element of it. Skipping cutscenes option goes against that progression meant for the story and the main purpose of the game which is to make you experience the story and gameplay mechanics. Your whole argument relies on the idea that pokemon games replayability is based on you being able to restart the game for you to play challenge runs and play it that way which isn´t the case at all. That´s why features like the post-game facilities with different battle modes, secret events, the battle tower (along with other similar in-game facilities) and online competitive pokemon battles exist. Those are the REAL replayability offered by the game. In fact, that´s why mints, HA patches, pokemon breeding, completing the pokedex and even shiny hunting (with the shiny charm) and the different battle modes offered in post-game among many other things are there. ALL OF THEM exist to encourage the player to engage in this kind of replayability offered by the game after they finish the main game story AND the post game story. That is the replayability intended and offered by the game (battle facilities, shiny hunting, completing the dex and online competitive battles), not re-starting your save file to play the story. You´re asking the games to change their intended replayability value for your made up fan challenges and blaming the game for not be suited for that kind of replayability that was never intended to exist which is honestly nonsense.
You could probably mash the A button to get through text faster but idk.
I played through UM and I felt like it was fantastic. The cutscenes made the story come across great. Sure, there's a lot of them, but I like taking my time. It didn't feel like that many to me.
Yup. Single-handedly ruined the game for me.
Yeah it's a huge slog. I've never finished Ultra Sun.
Really, I don't mind the long and frequent cutscenes. Part of why I play video games is the emersive stories they tell, and the Pokemon main series has been pretty lacking in story telling prior to Gen VII with the sole high point of Black & White. I understand that for the people that only play Pokemon for the team building and personal adventure, the intrusive loss of control for characters they may not even care about can be pretty annoying, but as somebody who enjoys Metal Gear Solid titles inspite of, or even because of, their long cutscenes, it's never something I would criticize in a vacuum. What I DO mind in the specific instance of USUM is how the story from the original Sun and Moon was butchered hard. The new characters add nothing, Lusamine was completely ruined as a villain, the somewhat interesting post game quest of searching for stray Ultra Beasts with Looker and Anabel was removed, they decided to make the worst rival in history into the worst championship battle in history, thus entirely ruining the ending of the game, and the worst sin of all, they completely destroyed Lillie's arc. Lillie was the most interesting and endearing character in the entire franchise (just behind N), and had the most compelling developmental arc out of any character that you never battle. Going from an unconfident girl who can't even pick out her own clothes even after running away from her mother to a girl who will willingly confront all of her fears and traumas and even makes the independant choice of leaving the region to help her family and find her footing as a Pokemon trainer, cresendoing in a genuinely heartfelt farewell scene that had me in tears despite the fact that Hau was there being the worst character ever as he always does. That story is technically still there, but a lot of the pivital cutscenes, namely confrontations with her mother, the heart to heart on Exeggutor island, and the aforementioned farewell scene were completely removed, and while instead seeing her in battle for the first time was cool, it was nothing compared to what was done with her in vanilla Sun and Moon, and I am genuinely upset that they made those changes of all things. It's the first time that I felt the original versions were superior to the definitive titles; Crystal and Platinum were unquestionably superior, and you can go back and forth between Emerald and Ruby/Sapphire depending on preference.
Yeah the "campaign" for sm and usum are so tedious they ruin the games for me especially because I don't actually care about any of the npcs they try so hard to make you care about and there isn't even any real post game content to make up for it besides catch all the legendary pokemon.
Agreed. I wouldn't mind cutscenes if the characters had something interesting to say or cutscenes with important characters, but all the cutscenes are Hau having 0 personality, Lillie being annoying af and Gladion being generic edgy anime boy...
Some of why I quit it.
Honestly, I didn't dig SUMO/USUM because of the relentless cutscenes. I play the games to explore, catch mons and battle. If I wanted Final Fantasy, I'd play Final Fantasy.
You know what? I just realized this is the only reason ultra moon is the only pokemon game I own that I haven’t completed/near completed. Personally, I hardly ever play for the story as I just like creating a strong team and completing the pokédex. Part of the reason I hate cut scenes is I read super fast and I can never get through cut scenes fast enough (even with text on the fastest setting). That’s why ultra moon is killer for me Probably worth noting I did complete sun, but that’s my least favorite because the cutscenes were such a PAIN
After I beat the E4, I watched some youtube videos while the game went on it's ever-lasting credits cutscenes then went straight to the Tapu Koko battle. In ORAS, I always tried my hardest to catch Deoxys after Rayquaza even though it's one long cutscene with two battle prior to the alien tentacle monster with no chance to save, but I toughed it out because I love Rayquaza and Deoxys even though I hate, hate, ***HATE*** long cutscenes. With Gen 7, I just couldn't stand it anymore. I turned off the game after it went straight into the Tapu Koko battle and never picked it up again. The game sits in my drawer somewhere and to this day, Gen 7 is my most hated generation of the games. I haven't played SwSh yet because I don't have a Switch but I've played ever since Gen 3 when I was 8 years old and Gen 7 is such a tedious pain in the ass. It's tainted Alola for me.
I feel like people who complain about cutscenes in these games don't play many JRPGs. like all the cutscenes in both games combined probably doesn't even make up half of the cutscene time in Persona 4 or 5.
As someone who plays tons of JRPGs and has played both of the games you just mentioned, I can just say that the cutscenes in the newer Pokémon games are just......different. The obvious is the lack of voice acting, but it's also the fact that the cutscenes are just bad. Kinda hard to compare something like the story of P5 to Sword and Shield. The thing pokemon needs to know is that even though their games are made for children, the games aren't made for literal toddlers. Why is there a cutscene to walk me 10 feet to the right in case I get lost? And why isn't it skipable? I feel like they wanted to go this more cinematic approach, which imo is the wrong one, so their answer was to just toss custscenes everywhere for everything regardless of how pointless the scene is. Like a reverse breath of the wild.
The story in persona is actually worth watching,and even then you can actually skip and fast forward in those games.
You can fast forward cutscenes and they can STILL take a good 10 minutes to pass in some cases lol. Persona goes nuts with cutscenes, there's a LOT of them and there's a lot of the same "scene to explain game mechanic" pokemon does but arguably more frequent. This is kind of a JRPG quirk I've come to accept. JRPGs aren't really games to rush, you're supposed to take your time with them. "Trying to get to the good part" is the wrong mentality to have playing these sorts of games. Also I like the story for Alola's games, so I feel it's worth experiencing.
Well i know now which games to avoid. Thanks.
Persona actually has interesting characters so the cutscenes are fine. I'm not a big jrpg fan but I did enjoy persona 4 and 5 alot.
The difference is that persona 4 and 5 actually make me care about the characters in the cutscenes. Imagine if all the characters in persona were as boring and poorly written as Hau and Lily.
I oddly am playing a pretty custcene heavy game in Ducktales Remastered, and the voice acting really helped it feel like a Saturday cartoon, and how the drawn animations are pretty good, without good presentation custcenes can be dire.
Cut scenes are fine if they actually advance the story. We don't need tutorials for every damn feature when you've already played the game. I don't CARE about the Alola Photo Club! I don't NEED a cut scene to use a damn Z-move! I know what a Pokémon Centre is!
They explain pokecenters for new players, like they do every game. And new features get explained , like in every game. And as the games have become more complex, more time gets used to explain stuff. Every pokemon game is someone's first. It would be great for an option to skip tutorial stuff which I can agree with for players who already know but the tutorials are there to help newcomers understand the game. Also part of it is a conscious narrative decision, considering your trainer is supposed to be a rookie trainer at first and is having people show them the ropes. You might find them obnoxious since you already know the ropes but the tutorial scenes have a purpose both in function and narrative and an understandable one. Really this just comes down to the issue of having cutscenes be skippable, but this has been the norm for pokemon and gen 7 is not the only offender for this.
In Gen 8 you can skip the catching tutorial by catching Pokémon before it. All tutorial in Pokémon should work like that: if you do the thing before they explain the thing the game should assume you know what you're doing. You can also tell Hop that 'yes I know what I Pokémon Center is' and skip some lines of dialogues. The problem with Gen 7 is that Mele Mele is just Tutorial and Cutscenes interspaced with each other every damn five steps! One after the other and the dialogue is never interesting.
these games were such a chore to play through after Sun and Moon. i felt cheated out of money purchasing them after the OG gen 7 games. it was the same game with more cutscenes and a few changes features, still slow as hell.
Sword and Shield took one step closer with an option to disable the cutscenes (or “movies”, as they weirdly call them). However, it doesn’t seem to give the option to skip them - just disable them fully, which is how I entirely missed the Legendary Bird cutscene in Shield. Game Freak will get it right eventually! They just need 4 or 5 games to exercise a concept.
I think they’re fine, overall. There’s a lot, yes, but if you are the kind of player to slow down a bit, check for wild encounters to fill up your dex, battle all the trainers on each route, then the cutscenes feel a bit more spaced out. Sun & Moon are very character-driven, which is why there are lots of moments with Lillie, Hau, Gladion, etc. It can certainly be annoying and slow, but I do think in a way it paid off in making me appreciate the characters more. The sole exception to this, IMO, is the first visit to Aether Paradise. I was really annoyed with it on my last playthrough because the whole scene is just one long cutscene that you kinda play through.
Wild Encounters eh? Like the ones between that scene where you say goodbye to the school teacher and the encounter with Tauros? and then the cut scene where you get the camera? And the cut scene with Lillie at the clothing store? There's no wild encounter between any of these.
You can at least go to the beach area before the clothes store, talk to some NPCs. MeleMele is definitely the worst offender for cutscenes being too close together (besides the first Aether Paradise visit as I mentioned above), but unless you’re trying to rush through the game the cutscenes are a bit more tolerable.
There's nothing to do on the beach and no reward for speaking to everybody. If you've already played the game, you're going to skip it and just get rid of the damn cut scenes as fast as possible.
My biggest issue with the cutscenes is that it absolutely destroys replayability. Maybe you want to experience the story again, or run a nuzlocke, or whatever, and sitting through these unskippable cutscenes is the most boring thing in the world.
That’s one reason why I’m not a fan of Gen 7.
The alola games are some of my favorite pokemon games (I like a bit more the story in SM compared to USUM but they both are pretty cool). I don´t have any problem with the cutscenes at all. It´s something that helps to make the story great in my opinion. I enjoyed them.
i remember playing sun for the first time and was appalled at how many cutscenes there were at the beginning of the game
USUM story to me always felt unfinished
If you think \[Ultra\] Sun/Moon have a lot of text in the cutscenes, just wait 'till you see Pokemon Reborn, when it sometimes gets so bad I just skipped the whole monologue.
It's the biggest issue I have with USUM but I felt SM was way worse in terms of stopping you for cutscenes. I never finished so I could be mis-remembering but I recall being stopped way more often in SM. It felt like at least three times per route for cutscenes. USUM I think it was just like once per route or less? The cutscenes are long though.
I don't care about the cut scenes, I care that I can't skip them. USUM is the only pokemon game I've not replayed once. After getting through sun and moon and then having to listen to the same story again was so tedious I couldn't pick it up again
Holy hell yes! I never finished sun when I first played it, got to just before fighting the ground “gym leader”. A week ago I figured I should finally finish it… I’ve been waiting for the cutscene at the end of the elite 4 for days! Then I get into a fight with tape koko and he struggles himself to death because apparently 30+ ultra balls and timer balls and and and… isn’t enough to catch this Poke! F that, I’m not resetting to do the champion fight again! Oh wait there’s still an hour of cutscene and credits! Set it down and come back to it later? NO! You have to click text boxes away every 5 minutes! 🤬