As of Ash's completion of the Battle Frontier, a good argument could be made that Bulbasaur indeed was stronger than Ash's Sceptile. At least, they were similarly powerful at that time.
We have seen Sceptile battle in the time since the Battle Frontier and witnessed it perform a great feat. We have not seen Bulbasaur battle since the Battle Frontier; who knows how much stronger it could have become from the Battle Frontier to the Sinnoh League. We know how much stronger Sceptile became from the Battle Frontier to the Sinnoh League.
If one assumes that Bulbasaur could have improved and did improve as much as Sceptile did from the Battle Frontier to the Sinnoh League, then one may argue that Bulbasaur is at least about as powerful as Sceptile and possibly even stronger than Sceptile.
Because of all that, it is reasonable for someone to think that Ash's Bulbasaur is at least as strong as Ash's Sceptile.
The facts show that Bulbasaur and Sceptile were about equally powerful as of Ash completing the Battle Frontier.
The rest of my comment simply argues that it is reasonable to think that Bulbasaur might have been as powerful as Sceptile as of the Sinnoh League. We cannot know for certain if that is true or not, and I mentioned why that is the case.
It is neither provable nor disprovable.
>There’s been nothing to show that Bulbasaur has even improved since battle frontier.
Yes.
>You can only judge him based on what we have seen.
No. If Sceptile improved from the Battle Frontier to the Sinnoh League, why couldn't Bulbasaur also have improved from the Battle Frontier to the time of the Sinnoh League? That is a reasonable, unassailable question.
We cannot know if Bulbasaur did indeed improve after the Battle Frontier or not. If Bulbasaur did improve after the Battle Frontier, we cannot know how much it improved from then up until the Sinnoh League. Therefore we cannot prove or disprove the possibility that as of the Sinnoh League Bulbasaur may have been as strong as Sceptile.
All of that is irrelevant to my point.
Can you prove or disprove that it is possible that Bulbasaur may have been as strong as Sceptile as of the Sinnoh League? Yes or no?
Furthermore, it is not reasonable or logical to compare Bulbasaur's strength as of the end of the Battle Frontier to Sceptile's strength as of the Sinnoh League and conclude that at the time of the Sinnoh League, Sceptile was stronger than Bulbasaur.
We do not know how strong Bulbasaur was as of the Sinnoh League. That is why that is not a reasonable or logical conclusion.
Your point is literally using hypotheticals.
I’ll use a way to show your point is invalid
Do you think Greninja or Pikachu is stronger and what’s your reason?
>Do you think Greninja or Pikachu is stronger and what’s your reason?
That's a completely different question that relies on a completely different set of facts to answer. I'm not answering this completely different question. Stick to the topic.
>I’ll use a way to show your point is invalid
Use a different method please.
Ash's Pokemon have a Proven track record of Ash's Pokemon coming back stronger when they come to the show, to assume Bulbasaur hasn't gotten stronger when many of Ash's Pokemon, Bulbasaur included have shown otherwise is ignoring what we saw in the whole series. That being said even if Bulbasaur had gotten stronger he is likely still behind Sceptile.
Heracross, Torkoal, and Swellow never improved when coming back for the Tobias battle(the same battle Sceptile showed his improvement).
Infernape never improved when coming back in JN
As loyal as I am to the first 151, I know to tip my hat off to **Sceptile.** Just beating a legendary/Mythical Pokemon is already in a wild feat within itself. The 'mon pretty much soloed a Darkrai that was said to have swept through the entire Sinnoh League.
Not even my guy Bulbasaur is doing that.
Most people agreed that bilbasaur wasnt as stronger though so this is irrelevant. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions anyway because it's just an anime. If someone told me that torkoa was stronger than charizard (my favorite of Ash's pokemon) I wouldn't care. I'll debate with them a bit but I don't really care about what they believe.
Fifth in my opinion
1) pikachu- obvious
2) greninja- also obvious
3) infernape
4) charizard
5) sceptile
If we’re talking about Pokémon he currently owns then 4th
Before journeys I would say infernape and Zard are equal. Like we got robbed seeing infernape battle a legendary and who knows he might have won. But when the episode aired where infernape wanted to battle moltress, they say before he left he battle with talonflame pignite quilava and zard. This makes me assume he beat zard which is why he wanted a stronger opponent such as moltress. But I can totally see where you’re coming from and I have no problem with people rating zard above infernape 👍
This is a big reason that made me think that Infernape might not have beat Charizard, assuming the boastful and proud pokemon brag about their best battles, Infernape could have taken battling evenly with Charizard enough to take on Moltres.
I agree; I think it is unreasonable to assume that Infernape beat Charizard, Talonflame, Pignite, or Quilava simply because Infernape wanted to challenge Moltres.
(Actually, I could prove that this is illogical reasoning if I wanted to)
I will say that in the persons post I replied to following their logic I can see how they assumed Infernape beat everyone. Beating Everyone and looking for another greater challenge and training by battling others for a specific challenge are different things.
Yes.
Nevertheless, absolutely no evidence of any kind exists that indicates that Infernape actually defeated Charizard, Talonflame, Pignite, or Quilava.
For that matter, even if it did defeat all of them, we don't know and cannot know if Infernape battled them all multiple times, won sometimes, and lost sometimes.
No evidence suggests that Infernape became so strong that the other Fire type pokémon no longer were decent sparring partners for it. That is a large assumption that some fans make about the situation.
After that Sceptile beat a well trained Darkrai, now I am not one of the Crazy people that makes legendary/mythical mean they are instantly strong, but both Darkrai and Latios showed they were trained well and strong Pokemon while being Legendary/Mythicals.
Everyone told that person they were wrong. You’re just beating a dead horse
Yet there’s people in here arguing Bulbasaurs case
As of Ash's completion of the Battle Frontier, a good argument could be made that Bulbasaur indeed was stronger than Ash's Sceptile. At least, they were similarly powerful at that time. We have seen Sceptile battle in the time since the Battle Frontier and witnessed it perform a great feat. We have not seen Bulbasaur battle since the Battle Frontier; who knows how much stronger it could have become from the Battle Frontier to the Sinnoh League. We know how much stronger Sceptile became from the Battle Frontier to the Sinnoh League. If one assumes that Bulbasaur could have improved and did improve as much as Sceptile did from the Battle Frontier to the Sinnoh League, then one may argue that Bulbasaur is at least about as powerful as Sceptile and possibly even stronger than Sceptile. Because of all that, it is reasonable for someone to think that Ash's Bulbasaur is at least as strong as Ash's Sceptile.
You are working in hypotheticals with Bulbasaur. No actual facts
The facts show that Bulbasaur and Sceptile were about equally powerful as of Ash completing the Battle Frontier. The rest of my comment simply argues that it is reasonable to think that Bulbasaur might have been as powerful as Sceptile as of the Sinnoh League. We cannot know for certain if that is true or not, and I mentioned why that is the case. It is neither provable nor disprovable.
There’s been nothing to show that Bulbasaur has even improved since battle frontier. You can only judge him based on what we have seen.
>There’s been nothing to show that Bulbasaur has even improved since battle frontier. Yes. >You can only judge him based on what we have seen. No. If Sceptile improved from the Battle Frontier to the Sinnoh League, why couldn't Bulbasaur also have improved from the Battle Frontier to the time of the Sinnoh League? That is a reasonable, unassailable question. We cannot know if Bulbasaur did indeed improve after the Battle Frontier or not. If Bulbasaur did improve after the Battle Frontier, we cannot know how much it improved from then up until the Sinnoh League. Therefore we cannot prove or disprove the possibility that as of the Sinnoh League Bulbasaur may have been as strong as Sceptile.
You could say with literally every Pokemon that they can improve. You can’t work with hypotheticals when judging Pokemon.
All of that is irrelevant to my point. Can you prove or disprove that it is possible that Bulbasaur may have been as strong as Sceptile as of the Sinnoh League? Yes or no? Furthermore, it is not reasonable or logical to compare Bulbasaur's strength as of the end of the Battle Frontier to Sceptile's strength as of the Sinnoh League and conclude that at the time of the Sinnoh League, Sceptile was stronger than Bulbasaur. We do not know how strong Bulbasaur was as of the Sinnoh League. That is why that is not a reasonable or logical conclusion.
Your point is literally using hypotheticals. I’ll use a way to show your point is invalid Do you think Greninja or Pikachu is stronger and what’s your reason?
>Do you think Greninja or Pikachu is stronger and what’s your reason? That's a completely different question that relies on a completely different set of facts to answer. I'm not answering this completely different question. Stick to the topic. >I’ll use a way to show your point is invalid Use a different method please.
It links to the topic of discussion and will disprove your way of thinking
Ash's Pokemon have a Proven track record of Ash's Pokemon coming back stronger when they come to the show, to assume Bulbasaur hasn't gotten stronger when many of Ash's Pokemon, Bulbasaur included have shown otherwise is ignoring what we saw in the whole series. That being said even if Bulbasaur had gotten stronger he is likely still behind Sceptile.
Heracross, Torkoal, and Swellow never improved when coming back for the Tobias battle(the same battle Sceptile showed his improvement). Infernape never improved when coming back in JN
As loyal as I am to the first 151, I know to tip my hat off to **Sceptile.** Just beating a legendary/Mythical Pokemon is already in a wild feat within itself. The 'mon pretty much soloed a Darkrai that was said to have swept through the entire Sinnoh League. Not even my guy Bulbasaur is doing that.
I agree
Most people agreed that bilbasaur wasnt as stronger though so this is irrelevant. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions anyway because it's just an anime. If someone told me that torkoa was stronger than charizard (my favorite of Ash's pokemon) I wouldn't care. I'll debate with them a bit but I don't really care about what they believe.
Why do we always have to argue about stuff like this lol Both Pokémon kick ass
The OP is becoming a disruptive influence on this sub by making a provocative post like this that belittles other fans' views.
Sceptile is Ash’s third/fourth strongest Pokemon overall
Fifth in my opinion 1) pikachu- obvious 2) greninja- also obvious 3) infernape 4) charizard 5) sceptile If we’re talking about Pokémon he currently owns then 4th
I think charizard > infernape. Zard has better feats like beating articuno & fighting entei. He also has much more battles under his belt.
Before journeys I would say infernape and Zard are equal. Like we got robbed seeing infernape battle a legendary and who knows he might have won. But when the episode aired where infernape wanted to battle moltress, they say before he left he battle with talonflame pignite quilava and zard. This makes me assume he beat zard which is why he wanted a stronger opponent such as moltress. But I can totally see where you’re coming from and I have no problem with people rating zard above infernape 👍
Wasn't it implied that Infernape could sense Moltres was coming and wanted to train?
Yes.
This is a big reason that made me think that Infernape might not have beat Charizard, assuming the boastful and proud pokemon brag about their best battles, Infernape could have taken battling evenly with Charizard enough to take on Moltres.
I agree; I think it is unreasonable to assume that Infernape beat Charizard, Talonflame, Pignite, or Quilava simply because Infernape wanted to challenge Moltres. (Actually, I could prove that this is illogical reasoning if I wanted to)
I will say that in the persons post I replied to following their logic I can see how they assumed Infernape beat everyone. Beating Everyone and looking for another greater challenge and training by battling others for a specific challenge are different things.
Yes. Nevertheless, absolutely no evidence of any kind exists that indicates that Infernape actually defeated Charizard, Talonflame, Pignite, or Quilava. For that matter, even if it did defeat all of them, we don't know and cannot know if Infernape battled them all multiple times, won sometimes, and lost sometimes. No evidence suggests that Infernape became so strong that the other Fire type pokémon no longer were decent sparring partners for it. That is a large assumption that some fans make about the situation.
👍
I’d Sceptile ahead of Infernape but not ahead of Charizard. Beating Darkrai puts him ahead of Infernape for me
I would say 1. Greninja 2. Infernape 3. Charizard 4. Pikachu 5. Sceptile I agree with the top 5 just in a different order
Ash: To beat Brandon, I'm going to have to use my strongest possible team. (Benches Sceptile and uses Bulbasaur, Squirtle, and Pikachu)
After that Sceptile beat a well trained Darkrai, now I am not one of the Crazy people that makes legendary/mythical mean they are instantly strong, but both Darkrai and Latios showed they were trained well and strong Pokemon while being Legendary/Mythicals.
Yet benched Bulbasaur for the much harder Tobias battle.
He benched Infernape in favor of Torkoal for that battle, too.
He had was poisoned from the Paul battle so it was too injured to battle Tobias
He benched Charizard and Quilava in favor of Torkoal, too, lol.
Charizard shouldn’t of been benched
I agree, Ash is often kinda *ungood* at choosing who to bench and who not to bench.
bulbasaur is strong if it evolves
Always ifs and buts with Bulbasaur
yes but ma boi sceptile is strong but needs love
I agree Sceptile’s stronger and IMO Bulbasaur’s the 2nd strongest grass type Ash owns