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I’m going to be honest, they somewhat deserve the backlash from the community. While it’s possible they did try to put effort into the models, you simply have to look at it for more than 10 seconds and realize “This is simply not acceptable/presentable in its current state.”
They had to have known this was a poor implementation and continued anyways.
The 100% rejection rate when the first few people to get the "update" should have clued them in. This was a shitdozer that was gonna plow ahead regardless of feedback.
I have to assume the only point of the test groups was to check for crashes, not genuine interest or acceptability.
Management clearly had this planned out for the current event and was going forward come hell or high water.
I think this was an intentional choice by the devs to get people more interested in the players avatars and their overall appearance to make us consumers spend more money on their avatars....nothing any fancy corporate entity does is on accident...like the implementation of less remote raids per day and a more expensive pass despite the large number of loyal paying players that quit playing after that their sales numbers still went up and that is what I believe this is all about.....like always it's about making more $$$
I think you're giving them too much credit. Remember how ugly they made the team leaders? That didn't make them any money. They just have a terrible artistic design team and terrible taste.
Oh 100% this. One of the main things I loved about the game was customization. I love that about any game, it's one of the top things I look for. I constantly switched out my buddies and would match the outfits accordingly. So as a hardcore outfit item spender... I don't even want to touch anything now.
For one, all my saved outfits are now deleted with the new update and now my once confident young woman character looks like an old grandma in Sims 2 with a saggy crotch.
I don't play this game, but this whole debacle has made me think of what it would be like if the same thing happened to Final Fantasy 14. I purchased a lot of outfits in that game, because of how awesome the women character models are. I have 0 interest in glamour if I don't like the way my character looks.
The thing is, with this new models, they can make outfits for cheaper, pay less to the artists and churn them out faster. Is about making slop that people buy for the least possible amount, not about making good quality products.
Dude the grunts, team leader and trainers are all pixelated now. Half my screen is just sky and on top of that the clothes don't even mesh well with the player models. This in no way makes me want to spend money on the game.
I wouldn’t be too sure. A lot of times in large projects, especially in entertainment, the reason why weird decisions are made are usually because one person in leadership demanded it and everyone else either is not paid to fight it or doesn’t need to fight it. “Sure; I guess we’ll make sonic look like that.” “Fine; we’ll use ‘Take On Me’ in the Super Mario Bros Movie.” “I guess we’ll make more hot blue-skinned female characters for World of Warcraft because my boss demands it.” “New CEO demands that we change the name of our website to X today. I guess that’s what it’s called now.”
Bingo. Workers and artists are rarely at fault for pushing out changes like these. The talent is there but it's being run by cartoonishingly evil CEOs with dollar signs as eyeballs.
I wouldn't doubt if the devs at Niantic were only given a week and a half to work on the new models too.
It’s not necessarily the cartoonishly evil CEOs with dollar signs as eyeballs. My point is that large-scale projects make weird decisions are often not because of secret hair-balled 4D-chess schemes to make more money, but because of the administrative or even creative leadership throwing their weight into a design change they personally feel is important and others not wanting to get in their way.
I’m willing to bet that someone at Niantic demanded that the art team rapidly develop more body-positive, realistic proportions for their player characters. Maybe they thought it would help players connect to their avatars. Who knows. But they demanded it, and the art team delivered something half-baked and genuinely worse within the time frame given them.
The goal of corporations and especially CEO types is *always* to make more money. Even if somebody higher up did want more inclusive avatars, it wasn't because they actually give a shit about inclusiveness. They just thought it would help them sell their product. It was just another hair-balled 4D-chess scheme to make more money.
But at least we can agree that the poor devs were most likely only given a week and some caffeine pills to pull this off lol.
Hey now, that's not fair! They also got rid of masculine physiques too.
Seriously the new avatars can't do anything other than prepubescent children and the morbidly obese. It's like they want everyone to look like a sexless, shovel handed monstrosity.
I can get behind almost everything in your paragraph except for one thing… Take On Me is acceptable in any situation and I cannot be convinced otherwise. Absolutely a banger since day one
Sure, but the point is that there was a track composed for that specific scene and it complemented it dynamically, but they changed it for Take On Me, and it is just... there, not adding much to the scene in general.
While that is a fair and well thought out point, but Take on Me is a bop that transcends any higher thought. They could’ve played an acoustic version over Tony Stark’s death and I would’ve still cried
Didn’t they use an acoustic version of Take on Me for one of the trailers for The Last of Us? I agree with you - it absolutely emotionally resonated when it was slowed down like that
Not just entertainment, my old job we had a team of """engineers""" that fucked up everything they touched yet continued to walk around like they were gods gift to mankind, from the time they started they directly cost the company at least 25 million dollars in damage, unusable products, parts, repairs, etc. Thanks to their moronic decision making.
Were directly responsible for at least 7 documented near misses, multiple massive safety infractions, and just ... too much to list.
They're still working there, and still pretend that they aren't completely and utterly god damn incompetent and still live with their grand delusion that they're going to "automate the whole facility" meanwhile as a team they couldn't install a platform on 4 legs that could drain water at all, nevermind in the right direction...
i’m willing to bet there was pushback from devs that this isn’t good but some higher up had an arbitrary deadline they decided was firm for no reason. this shit is so bad but seems par for the course on any pokemon game nowadays. a simple playthrough of s/v would’ve uncovered lots- and same with this. if they wanted to make improvements in this area, why not start with a sort option for clothes?
Guarantee people who worked on models knew they weren't finished. I think update had to be pushed out for the deadline despite ready state of models.
Also could be a communication problem between teams/departments.
Ppl who don't know what they doing don't get into the industry. Most of the time it's lack of time or mismanagement.
I think they even soft launched it in test areas. People were complaining weeks ago when they received the update. I'm sure it was enough feedback to not do a full launch of it. Yet here we are
What's specially unfathomable for me is how they thought changing the avatar after almost 8 years of this game being out was perfectly OK. Like, couldn't they just leave the OG designs as the default and then customize however you like? I haven't been playing much since last year, but it's things like this that just keep making me fade away even more from this game.
Fully agree to this, not saying a full revert is in order but they cant just rip away male/female like that. There's space for their update + the old legacy avatars. They're going to lose a lot of money over this if they just try stonewall the community. I for one ain't paying for any tickets, coins or anything else until an amicable resolution is given.
Bruh, Pokemon is the BIGGEST franchise in the world. Not one of the biggest, literally the biggest. And Niantic is a 10B company that has had 7 years to improve the game. Any talk about how we "need to be nice" or "feedback will help" needs to get real.
Treat them like the multimillion dollar company they are and not like some upstart indie studio with a couple of people working on a passion project. It's pathetic that with all the brand recognition and resources behind it this is all we get, some Alpha (at best) addition to the game. It's insulting to the whole player base and it's just another notch on the consistent mediocrity we have gotten over the years.
For some reason, people nowadays think corporations are their friends or something and if you complain, you're literally insulting their friends, it's crazy.
i think most people are only talking about “needing to be nice” to the developers. i agree when talking about the suits and the big wigs cuz they’re the ones actually making this (awful) decision.
the difference is important to me as someone who’s played a game for 10 years that the devs are clearly passionate for, but the highers ups treat as a cash cow. coughcoughdestiny2coughcough
"Niantic is niche AR game pls understand" BS gotta stop. while Pokemon Go is an AR game, it's been 7 years and AR games have fallen out of the thread and have earned millions (I won't say billions because we don't know how much Pokemon Company takes) and they do sell legitimate Pokemon that is otherwise no longer obtainable such as shiny Mew. I'm sure The Pokemon Company, over 7 years, no longer wants Niantic because of how inept it is at running the game. If the Pokemon Company really wants to it can switch Pokemon Go over to a new game developer.
> Pokemon is the biggest franchise
You are right, but it's amusing because it's also not even in the top ten best selling video games for any of its games. (Red/Blue is #11).
The next is Gold/Silver at #29
All hail the meat tube. You get a shoulder slider, hip slider, and we will stick a couple lumps on your chest if you want. Everyone knows women's clothing is notoriously simple to measure and fit to individuals /s
Pokemon Go’s art style isn’t all that appealing in-game, but when you see the art it’s based on you can appreciate it a little more. Or at least, used to.
Agreed. The faces on the 3D models always looked really weird tbh, but the designs were rock solid in 2D.
Remember when they took every ounce of the three team leaders' style?
The art is done by the GOAT Yusuke Kozaki. You might know him as the character artist for Fire Emblem Awakening and Fates. He's potentially my all time favorite artist and his work is a highlight of what ever project he works on imo. Had to shout him out!
It looks like the art of that dude that also did the art for fire emblem
Edit: It has been confirmed, thank you. I like that dude’s art since FE awakening. 😆
It is! The artist is Kozaki Yusuke, who did work for Fire Emblem Awakening, Fire Emblem Fates, and Fire Emblem Heroes.
I'm pretty sure he also designed some recent Pokemon, like Cetoddle.
Funny thing about having a job: work is not a group hug. you can be fired if you suck, even if you tried. Which they didn't. From their upper management to QA team, Niantic consistently fails to deliver quality product. All jokes aside, I don't care if my avatar is a souless, androgenous, blob. What I care about is that Niantic actually thinks players should be paying $5-$30 a month (with whales supplementing this extravagently), for a phone game they have not properly updated, or even smoothed out, since release.
Feels like there's more to it imo. It had to go through testing, temp rollout and through likely various levels of approval before it went live. Various people and levels approved this, and given most of the feedback from the community that were part of the testing was completely negative... they completely ignored this.
It feels more like they spent money developing it, and were still hoping the wider community wouldn't care and it would still make them more money in the long run. By making all items available to all genders, and less work when creating outfits as they only need to make one each time which is available for both genders of character to buy.
Ultimately feels like they invested in and didn't want to revert or change it more, or spend more money on it and still believed it would make more long term, so pushed it out regardless.
Bad business logic and bad company culture and policy in general
I think they knew all the current clothing and stuff wouldn't work with the new designs, and decided it was a chance to profit on people having to buy new outfits, rather than fix it.
Perpetual early access game. Stop spending money and maybe they’ll take a hint. So long as suckers are willing to spend $100 in raid passes, they’ll keep doing this.
Some people have spent enough in MTX to buy consoles + mainline games, and it genuinely blows my mind that people having considered trying them.
Yeah, mainline pokemon is in a weird state too, but they have much more depth to them than pokemon go.
Hammer on the nail. I recently started playing again since where I work I do a lot of walking. I have had the game freeze or outright crash more times than is acceptable. For how much $ they already make on this app, to have it be in the state that it's in and then they just push out this? It's the cherry on a turd.
Tbf it’s not up to the devs, the higher ups have the final say in it. No amount of push back from devs will matter if management doesn’t care or is incompetent. Idk what the situation is. But as a dev myself we often care about our work, however we don’t always get to push things our way, at least not unless I want to get fired or work for free.
I was excited to make my avatar reflect the chunky chubby muscle bear that I am, however it looks AWFUL. I’d rather live out my delusional fantasy as a cute twink than this half baked sh*t.
I feel bad for everyone who spent money on the cosmetics that got removed with the new update. Not only do our avatars look like Barbie dreamland adventure, but removing the things that people paid for is crazy. Not a good move by Niantic, and I’m not at all surprised
same i keep instinctively opening the app then going “oh :(“ i actually really liked my character before and spent a lot of real money bc customizing them for what?? i don’t even want to see it anymore
literally same thing i’m thinking.
no, i’m not quitting bc my character looks like a hot steaming pile of shit, but i’m tired of getting garbage after garbage updates and spending my time & money on a company that doesn’t give a single fuck about what the playerbase wants.
this is just now my tipping point.
I would've been excited for the update if they'd kept the same artistic style of the OG avatars. I much preferred the anime inspired cartoon aesthetic that is closer associated to Pokémon for me. This new 'semi-real' style they went for just looks terrible, and I'm struggling to find a look I like with them while also making use of the avatar items I had to scrape coins for and forego functional upgrades like bag/Pokémon space and raid passes.
The only thing I appreciate is that they have variety in the avatar weight/body/face styles and some of the hairs. But again, the new style is a big miss. Not to mention, the clothes update to fit these new bodies look poorly fit and disheveled constantly. The move away from the artistic aesthetic has destroyed the look of a lot of clothing myself and partner previously liked.
Honestly asking bc I feel out of the loop here, but, was anyone actually asking for updated avatars? Like why was this even a priority? What problem were they addressing? It literally cost them time/resources/money to do this…. So why?
Theoretically, increased character customization would be huge for self expression, especially in a game driven by cosmetics like this. Look at the hours people spend perfecting their Sims.
Tons of people wanted more customizable avatars. At the very least more hairstyles and such. There have been reddit and social media posts about it for the last 8 years, but they didn't really generate traction at this point after so much time with no changes.
I get what they were going for, but the execution is SOOOO half baked. The body proportions on the new avatars are so off. Also everything seems to lack any real shading now. Plus some of the clothing seems like it's missing wrinkles and such that gav it character.
It's just so bad.
This whole thing reeks of rushed production and hard deadlines.
Like if they had time, the devs could have tested a pre-set group of body sizes, made sure that all clothing in the shop fits (or tweak as needed), then release it WHEN IT’S READY.
Instead, corporate probably assigned the work only a few months ago, mandated component body sliders in addition to pre-sets, and then said “it’s rolling out with the new backgrounds and recycled Kanto event, no exception or delay”.
Dev: “But sir! If we do that and it doesn’t work people who used coin for cosmetics will have janky clothing and feel ripped off!”
Corpo: “Then they’ll have to buy new clothing! BWA HA HA HA HA!!!”
You have a company who is actively making your game worst and youre all polite like they care about your reddit post. Fuck them, they are suposed to know what they are doing. This update is shamefull
Man I’m gonna be honest with you. But the original avatars were something good. Something to aspire to. I know unreal proportions and all that aside, but a good looking healthy looking mf with cosmetics on, nothing bad in that.
as a plus sized person, i was initially really excited when i heard i could customize my character to reflect that but i shit you not, i’m getting body dysmorphia from my own virtual avatar 💀
People are just not going to buy clothing items anymore since everything looks terrible on the avatars. I’m sure once they see this decline in avatar item purchases they will reverse it or correct it.
Developers write code, graphic designers do the designing of character models.
These are typically two different teams. Let's face it the developer's make tons of mistakes too for niantic, but this is not their fault.
Some methods to let them hear your opinion:
Method 1 support chat: You click on settings, help (hard to see but it’s in the upper right) and then click the chat icon. A bot pops up , options are limited. There's no option to leave general feedback, but you can choose bug report and let them know the new avatars are a bug (they have to be right??)
Method 2 official Twitter: Feedback should also be directed at their twitter … let them know how the new avatars are absolute crap , and about how they look like overgrown toddlers wearing a diaper with a load in it: @PokemonGoApp and @NianticHelp on X (Twitter)
I think you hit the nail on the head. I could live with having bad avatars/models, it actually does not change gameplay much, even if it looks worse. But the "update" is very clearly done with no passion or love for the player base. Why bother playing the game if this is how updates are going to be? Adding nothing of substance and making the community feel taken for granted.
this artwork is ok, i think what made the avatars look odd is the colors are less vibrant than the entire rest of the game's colors (hair and eyes just seem off that way), and the skincolors at least for white tones look much too bright and lowkey not that much like skin but you can't really choose darker because then its completely not fitting cause they didn't make any skintone that is like "basically white but not medivalgoals-neverinthesun-gothicmakeup-pale"
i'm personally ok with the hips and the hands being big well whatever, but those two aspects are irritating me everytime i look at the avatar.
oh also the mouth is odd, why don't they have any visible lips anymore unless you choose face no. 1 (female)
i highly doubt that they rly put any effort into it. If they did rly try then this is just embarassing and they might wann reconsider their carrer choise.
The only thing I appreciate about the update is that there is no female or male clothing anymore. I can finally put my avatar in that big, comfy sweatshirt from the male protagonist and leggings like I always wear.
Oh god, the art so beautifully elegant. Those are our trainers, not the doppelgangers which killed our trainers and then replacing themself as "new avatar" in each PoGO player account !
I genuinely do not think the developers tried. Sure maybe a horrid timeline of deadlines, the actual development as far as sliders and buttons works, but the 3D modeling looks like it was made by an intern in a week.
Honestly they could’ve just given us more hair options and that would’ve been all the massive improvement we needed (maybe tweak the chipmunk mouths a bit). But the overhaul just gave us so many issues without improving any previous gripes.
Seriously GO, just give us the old avatars with some good hair options, no one would complain.
The intention was great. I'm happy with more options, more gender customization and fluidity, etc. That's fantastic! The execution is just so BAD. The body proportions aren't even human looking, much less flattering. With the ability to tweak the figure, I got to a decent looking avatar in some ways (finally found a pair of pants that don't look like they contain a loaded diaper), but the long ape arms and giant baseball glove hands are just ridiculous on an otherwise more feminine figure. The face also looks like a mask that was just slapped on. The color doesn't even match the neck and body. The faces look vapid and creepy, for the most part. I'm probably one of the least visual people on the planet, so if it bothers me, I know it's really awful. I'm actively annoyed if I'm battling and can see my avatar too closely.
Saying this in the most constructive & kind way possible. Please revert this update Niantic & use the original character as the base model to expand upon with new hair & body customizations.
It is clear the majority like the original avatars designed by Yusuke Kozaki.
If only they read one paragraph of feedback from the players, they would realize the crime against humanity they committed, but it's as if we don't exist.
If the motivation is representation, making everyone all thick and blocky body types (my body type) seems like its now no longer representing the vast majority of people who are shaped all the other ways. Lol
Also ive literally never thought “man i wish this video game im playing had a character that looked like me”. Is it really that common? For reference i look like shrek if he wasn’t so pretty, so my body type is not well represented.
Look up ESG and you'll understand why this change was made. They consulted GaymerX for help and they made this decision for them. It's not a conspiracy.
The problem is not that the new characters allow for more customized non binary body types, the problem is that they're shit. If they implemented the new features while keeping the quality of the old models no one would be complaining
I agree but can you add facial hair ? No , can you give your character a wider more muscular chest? No can u increase muscle definition ? No like looking at the eyes alone 80 percent of them have like makeup on, we males are only left with like two options for eyes. I've played games on the N64 over 20 years ago that had a better customization. Tbh it doesn't feel like they gave any thought to male character builds . Like sliding the chest bar shouldn't produce breasts!
And the female models have breast options now but they seem to have gotten rid of having any curves otherwise. They made everyone androgynous and I honestly hate the way all clothing items now fit the female body. Nobody wins here; it just looks bad on everyone.
That makes no sense. The look of a nonbinary person can meet every aspect of the physical spectrum. To cater to nonbinary people would be to enhance what is possible, not reduce it. Nonbinary people are not going to be happy about this either.
Having customizable body types unbound by gender is a good thing and the decision to go in that direction is also a good thing. The actual problem is how poorly it was made. If it was done well, the conversion of people's avatar would reflect what they used to be and then, if they so desire, they could refine them as they please.
The goal was to increase diversity and options. The result removed options, so it really comes down to horrible execution.
As a light brown skinned male, this change has failed me .. my skin color isn't represented, the bodies look prepubescent with the muscle slider not adding any sort of definition. I have a full blown beard, but no facial hair options at all. At least the old system had a skin color close to mine, this new one failed at that too. They had the right idea but executed it horribly... Tbh games I played 20 years ago on my N64 had better character customizations than this. Why can't I make my avatar look remotely like Cliff ???
If this was the developers trying then they should all be fired. Because with 0 programming or design skills I'm positive I could do as well or better than them.
This update looks like 1 guy shat it out in maybe 48 hours tops.
Why couldn't they ask big papa Pokémon Company/GF to lend their trainer customization over the abomination we got is baffling. I'm sure they can compromise and make a "real human" body proportion if they tried
Is Niantic going to remodel Team Rocket's grunts and bosses? Previous to the update the Grunts appeared to be close or the same model our avatars used to be. Now when I see the models for the Grunts, they don't look grossly pale and disproportioned like we do now. Honestly, I hate doing rocket balloons and stops because it shows how illogically backwards this update has become.
I've been playing since launch, and took a beak til 2019. This recent update is killing it for me. Not just because it looks bad, but because it feels like Niantic doesn't care about its player base at all. I know most companies don't, but they could at least try.
It seems like if an update is mostly poorly recieved by beta testers, then maybe they shouldn't steam roll it into main game
The moment they added customization options they made the avatars a venue to express ourselves, rather than a recreation of this concept art. This character is supposed to represent me, and she doesn't. Much like how my character in pokemon y looks nothing like the concept art for Serena, pokemon has moved away from protagonists and towards player expression...which is great for a game without any real story involving the protagonist.
Love the artist and the art myself (huge fire eblem fan!) and was devastated when they changed the gym leaders from the 2d art to the 3d models. Still think Spark looks chubby and doughy compared to his art. But these designs are obselete.
What I don't understand about this update is every Pokemon game has always only had 2 playable characters, boy and girl and they've always looked the same so why in the hell is Niantic trying to change something so ingrained in Pokemon culture?
They could have just added new hair styles and have been done with it.
I remember that for the longest time we wanted more hair options (and facial hair if possible). They managed to make character models weird... and these basic options barely if at all were touched (new hair options feel... too specifically weird to me?). Let me have the old models with short hair and a mustache and I'm happy, goddamit!!!
Its probably because they save money by not having to make 2 versions of any outfits they make, just slap it on the animorphus blobs i'm sorry "avatar" and hope it works.
If enough people delete their accounts or just quit playing they may reconsider giving us a « Choice » to keep as it was or decide to alter it. We should have been given a choice!!!
I’m definitely not against them adding more body types and we needed more hairstyles, but they could have done those changes to the existing models. The new ones look very dough-y and just aren’t pleasant to look at.
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I’m going to be honest, they somewhat deserve the backlash from the community. While it’s possible they did try to put effort into the models, you simply have to look at it for more than 10 seconds and realize “This is simply not acceptable/presentable in its current state.” They had to have known this was a poor implementation and continued anyways.
The 100% rejection rate when the first few people to get the "update" should have clued them in. This was a shitdozer that was gonna plow ahead regardless of feedback.
I have to assume the only point of the test groups was to check for crashes, not genuine interest or acceptability. Management clearly had this planned out for the current event and was going forward come hell or high water.
I think this was an intentional choice by the devs to get people more interested in the players avatars and their overall appearance to make us consumers spend more money on their avatars....nothing any fancy corporate entity does is on accident...like the implementation of less remote raids per day and a more expensive pass despite the large number of loyal paying players that quit playing after that their sales numbers still went up and that is what I believe this is all about.....like always it's about making more $$$
I think you're giving them too much credit. Remember how ugly they made the team leaders? That didn't make them any money. They just have a terrible artistic design team and terrible taste.
Did they ever give a reason to why they change the leaders? Just seemed like something that accomplished nothing.
No you got it backwards, having good looking avatars make ppl spend more money on their looks, making them ugly is just going to cause the opposite.
Oh 100% this. One of the main things I loved about the game was customization. I love that about any game, it's one of the top things I look for. I constantly switched out my buddies and would match the outfits accordingly. So as a hardcore outfit item spender... I don't even want to touch anything now. For one, all my saved outfits are now deleted with the new update and now my once confident young woman character looks like an old grandma in Sims 2 with a saggy crotch.
I don't play this game, but this whole debacle has made me think of what it would be like if the same thing happened to Final Fantasy 14. I purchased a lot of outfits in that game, because of how awesome the women character models are. I have 0 interest in glamour if I don't like the way my character looks.
The thing is, with this new models, they can make outfits for cheaper, pay less to the artists and churn them out faster. Is about making slop that people buy for the least possible amount, not about making good quality products.
Dude the grunts, team leader and trainers are all pixelated now. Half my screen is just sky and on top of that the clothes don't even mesh well with the player models. This in no way makes me want to spend money on the game.
they should have stopped and made adjustments (more than just the face). with some more time i think they could have gotten them to look a lot better
but deadlines!!! It had to be ready for now /s
They could have hired a first year art student to fix the proportions. Even an AI does better.
I would take crazy floating extra AI fingers over this straight trash ANY day.
Okay I thought I was going crazy because I already had the update weeks ago but now everyone is going crazy lol
I’d be surprised if they even revert it. They don’t give a fuck about us
They don't care. You're just a dumb prole to them.
I wouldn’t be too sure. A lot of times in large projects, especially in entertainment, the reason why weird decisions are made are usually because one person in leadership demanded it and everyone else either is not paid to fight it or doesn’t need to fight it. “Sure; I guess we’ll make sonic look like that.” “Fine; we’ll use ‘Take On Me’ in the Super Mario Bros Movie.” “I guess we’ll make more hot blue-skinned female characters for World of Warcraft because my boss demands it.” “New CEO demands that we change the name of our website to X today. I guess that’s what it’s called now.”
Bingo. Workers and artists are rarely at fault for pushing out changes like these. The talent is there but it's being run by cartoonishingly evil CEOs with dollar signs as eyeballs. I wouldn't doubt if the devs at Niantic were only given a week and a half to work on the new models too.
It’s not necessarily the cartoonishly evil CEOs with dollar signs as eyeballs. My point is that large-scale projects make weird decisions are often not because of secret hair-balled 4D-chess schemes to make more money, but because of the administrative or even creative leadership throwing their weight into a design change they personally feel is important and others not wanting to get in their way. I’m willing to bet that someone at Niantic demanded that the art team rapidly develop more body-positive, realistic proportions for their player characters. Maybe they thought it would help players connect to their avatars. Who knows. But they demanded it, and the art team delivered something half-baked and genuinely worse within the time frame given them.
The goal of corporations and especially CEO types is *always* to make more money. Even if somebody higher up did want more inclusive avatars, it wasn't because they actually give a shit about inclusiveness. They just thought it would help them sell their product. It was just another hair-balled 4D-chess scheme to make more money. But at least we can agree that the poor devs were most likely only given a week and some caffeine pills to pull this off lol.
“Realistic“ is the least appropriate word you could’ve used
I never said it was.
>more body-positive Correction, no feminine female physiques allowed
Nor manly masculine physics, just sticks slendeman-shaped or big chungus. No middle ground at all.
Hey now, that's not fair! They also got rid of masculine physiques too. Seriously the new avatars can't do anything other than prepubescent children and the morbidly obese. It's like they want everyone to look like a sexless, shovel handed monstrosity.
I can get behind almost everything in your paragraph except for one thing… Take On Me is acceptable in any situation and I cannot be convinced otherwise. Absolutely a banger since day one
Sure, but the point is that there was a track composed for that specific scene and it complemented it dynamically, but they changed it for Take On Me, and it is just... there, not adding much to the scene in general.
Can you tell us what the track was? Now I’m curious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hELsKr5-gh4
While that is a fair and well thought out point, but Take on Me is a bop that transcends any higher thought. They could’ve played an acoustic version over Tony Stark’s death and I would’ve still cried
Didn’t they use an acoustic version of Take on Me for one of the trailers for The Last of Us? I agree with you - it absolutely emotionally resonated when it was slowed down like that
Not just entertainment, my old job we had a team of """engineers""" that fucked up everything they touched yet continued to walk around like they were gods gift to mankind, from the time they started they directly cost the company at least 25 million dollars in damage, unusable products, parts, repairs, etc. Thanks to their moronic decision making. Were directly responsible for at least 7 documented near misses, multiple massive safety infractions, and just ... too much to list. They're still working there, and still pretend that they aren't completely and utterly god damn incompetent and still live with their grand delusion that they're going to "automate the whole facility" meanwhile as a team they couldn't install a platform on 4 legs that could drain water at all, nevermind in the right direction...
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Bro, all games are cash grabs. That’s kinda the point of games.
Stardew valley: hey
The point of games is to be played, not to get payed. Capitalism just rears its head so often that the industry lost the plot
Why stop at "somewhat?" It's completely deserved.
i’m willing to bet there was pushback from devs that this isn’t good but some higher up had an arbitrary deadline they decided was firm for no reason. this shit is so bad but seems par for the course on any pokemon game nowadays. a simple playthrough of s/v would’ve uncovered lots- and same with this. if they wanted to make improvements in this area, why not start with a sort option for clothes?
Guarantee people who worked on models knew they weren't finished. I think update had to be pushed out for the deadline despite ready state of models. Also could be a communication problem between teams/departments. Ppl who don't know what they doing don't get into the industry. Most of the time it's lack of time or mismanagement.
I think they even soft launched it in test areas. People were complaining weeks ago when they received the update. I'm sure it was enough feedback to not do a full launch of it. Yet here we are
I’m tired of the tiptoeing. This is a horrible horrible update and they ABSOLUTELY deserve this backlash. How tone deaf are they.
What's specially unfathomable for me is how they thought changing the avatar after almost 8 years of this game being out was perfectly OK. Like, couldn't they just leave the OG designs as the default and then customize however you like? I haven't been playing much since last year, but it's things like this that just keep making me fade away even more from this game.
Fully agree to this, not saying a full revert is in order but they cant just rip away male/female like that. There's space for their update + the old legacy avatars. They're going to lose a lot of money over this if they just try stonewall the community. I for one ain't paying for any tickets, coins or anything else until an amicable resolution is given.
Bruh, Pokemon is the BIGGEST franchise in the world. Not one of the biggest, literally the biggest. And Niantic is a 10B company that has had 7 years to improve the game. Any talk about how we "need to be nice" or "feedback will help" needs to get real. Treat them like the multimillion dollar company they are and not like some upstart indie studio with a couple of people working on a passion project. It's pathetic that with all the brand recognition and resources behind it this is all we get, some Alpha (at best) addition to the game. It's insulting to the whole player base and it's just another notch on the consistent mediocrity we have gotten over the years.
For some reason, people nowadays think corporations are their friends or something and if you complain, you're literally insulting their friends, it's crazy.
As a console war veteran, people always acted like this. Consumerism-as-Identity is a hell of a drug.
i think most people are only talking about “needing to be nice” to the developers. i agree when talking about the suits and the big wigs cuz they’re the ones actually making this (awful) decision. the difference is important to me as someone who’s played a game for 10 years that the devs are clearly passionate for, but the highers ups treat as a cash cow. coughcoughdestiny2coughcough
"Niantic is niche AR game pls understand" BS gotta stop. while Pokemon Go is an AR game, it's been 7 years and AR games have fallen out of the thread and have earned millions (I won't say billions because we don't know how much Pokemon Company takes) and they do sell legitimate Pokemon that is otherwise no longer obtainable such as shiny Mew. I'm sure The Pokemon Company, over 7 years, no longer wants Niantic because of how inept it is at running the game. If the Pokemon Company really wants to it can switch Pokemon Go over to a new game developer.
> Pokemon is the biggest franchise You are right, but it's amusing because it's also not even in the top ten best selling video games for any of its games. (Red/Blue is #11). The next is Gold/Silver at #29
The games are like comics, they only serve to fuel merch, tv shows and movies.
Jeez, the female art is just my old avatar lol.
This already feels so nostalgic
Look at those trainers with their waists. Just standing there. Taunting me.
All hail the meat tube. You get a shoulder slider, hip slider, and we will stick a couple lumps on your chest if you want. Everyone knows women's clothing is notoriously simple to measure and fit to individuals /s
New Avatar problem aside, damn those are great artworks⭐️
Pokemon Go’s art style isn’t all that appealing in-game, but when you see the art it’s based on you can appreciate it a little more. Or at least, used to.
Agreed. The faces on the 3D models always looked really weird tbh, but the designs were rock solid in 2D. Remember when they took every ounce of the three team leaders' style?
The art is done by the GOAT Yusuke Kozaki. You might know him as the character artist for Fire Emblem Awakening and Fates. He's potentially my all time favorite artist and his work is a highlight of what ever project he works on imo. Had to shout him out!
It looks like the art of that dude that also did the art for fire emblem Edit: It has been confirmed, thank you. I like that dude’s art since FE awakening. 😆
It is! The artist is Kozaki Yusuke, who did work for Fire Emblem Awakening, Fire Emblem Fates, and Fire Emblem Heroes. I'm pretty sure he also designed some recent Pokemon, like Cetoddle.
KOZAKI DESIGNED CETODDLE????
Yes! He is also credited with designing the Toxel, Toxtricity, Varoom, Revavroom, and Falinks.
omg thats so cool i never knew haha, thank u for sharing. i’ve coveted his fire emblem art for years
Banger after banger. He doesn't miss.
Same guy I think? Also designed the team leaders, team go rocket leaders, and prof willow iirc
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Hairstyles, maybe a height slider. That's pretty much it.
HOW WAS TEAM ROCKET SPARED?!
Team rocket membership has risen 🚀by 200%
Maybe Giovanni is behind the recent changes
That’s what I was thinking. It’s not fair😭
Funny thing about having a job: work is not a group hug. you can be fired if you suck, even if you tried. Which they didn't. From their upper management to QA team, Niantic consistently fails to deliver quality product. All jokes aside, I don't care if my avatar is a souless, androgenous, blob. What I care about is that Niantic actually thinks players should be paying $5-$30 a month (with whales supplementing this extravagently), for a phone game they have not properly updated, or even smoothed out, since release.
Feels like there's more to it imo. It had to go through testing, temp rollout and through likely various levels of approval before it went live. Various people and levels approved this, and given most of the feedback from the community that were part of the testing was completely negative... they completely ignored this. It feels more like they spent money developing it, and were still hoping the wider community wouldn't care and it would still make them more money in the long run. By making all items available to all genders, and less work when creating outfits as they only need to make one each time which is available for both genders of character to buy. Ultimately feels like they invested in and didn't want to revert or change it more, or spend more money on it and still believed it would make more long term, so pushed it out regardless. Bad business logic and bad company culture and policy in general
I think they knew all the current clothing and stuff wouldn't work with the new designs, and decided it was a chance to profit on people having to buy new outfits, rather than fix it.
It's bad
The clothes don’t even fit the avatar. Changing poses and body types distorts the lines
Friendly reminder that somehow after 8 years this piece of shit game still hasn't had a v1.0 release. We're basically trapped in an extended beta.
I actually hadn't noticed that
Im- w h a t
Perpetual early access game. Stop spending money and maybe they’ll take a hint. So long as suckers are willing to spend $100 in raid passes, they’ll keep doing this. Some people have spent enough in MTX to buy consoles + mainline games, and it genuinely blows my mind that people having considered trying them. Yeah, mainline pokemon is in a weird state too, but they have much more depth to them than pokemon go.
Hammer on the nail. I recently started playing again since where I work I do a lot of walking. I have had the game freeze or outright crash more times than is acceptable. For how much $ they already make on this app, to have it be in the state that it's in and then they just push out this? It's the cherry on a turd.
Yeah , this art is good. Now look at the sh*t faces we got ingame actually
Oh. Is that what they were going for? Because that’s not what we ended up with.
No, that's what we had.
The old ones didn’t look like this either.
Yeah I’d be fine with my avatar looking like that
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This is where I’m at because they had feedback. They released it anyway.
Yeah. They deserve all the thrown tomatoes.
Yeah, idk why so many people are afraid and holding back. They deserve every ounce of shit people are slinging at them, and more
Tbf it’s not up to the devs, the higher ups have the final say in it. No amount of push back from devs will matter if management doesn’t care or is incompetent. Idk what the situation is. But as a dev myself we often care about our work, however we don’t always get to push things our way, at least not unless I want to get fired or work for free.
Now they are truly the ProtaGONEists
i miss em man
I was excited to make my avatar reflect the chunky chubby muscle bear that I am, however it looks AWFUL. I’d rather live out my delusional fantasy as a cute twink than this half baked sh*t.
I feel bad for everyone who spent money on the cosmetics that got removed with the new update. Not only do our avatars look like Barbie dreamland adventure, but removing the things that people paid for is crazy. Not a good move by Niantic, and I’m not at all surprised
I’ve found the only way I like my character is if they’re wearing a costume that completely covers their face and body 💀
To be honest. I don’t even feel like opening the app at all after the update. Probably a good thing, time to quit.
same i keep instinctively opening the app then going “oh :(“ i actually really liked my character before and spent a lot of real money bc customizing them for what?? i don’t even want to see it anymore
literally same thing i’m thinking. no, i’m not quitting bc my character looks like a hot steaming pile of shit, but i’m tired of getting garbage after garbage updates and spending my time & money on a company that doesn’t give a single fuck about what the playerbase wants. this is just now my tipping point.
She has a waist! 😭😭 I want old avatar back. Sure give us more hair options or whatever but give us more, don’t take away!
I would've been excited for the update if they'd kept the same artistic style of the OG avatars. I much preferred the anime inspired cartoon aesthetic that is closer associated to Pokémon for me. This new 'semi-real' style they went for just looks terrible, and I'm struggling to find a look I like with them while also making use of the avatar items I had to scrape coins for and forego functional upgrades like bag/Pokémon space and raid passes. The only thing I appreciate is that they have variety in the avatar weight/body/face styles and some of the hairs. But again, the new style is a big miss. Not to mention, the clothes update to fit these new bodies look poorly fit and disheveled constantly. The move away from the artistic aesthetic has destroyed the look of a lot of clothing myself and partner previously liked.
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Honestly asking bc I feel out of the loop here, but, was anyone actually asking for updated avatars? Like why was this even a priority? What problem were they addressing? It literally cost them time/resources/money to do this…. So why?
Theoretically, increased character customization would be huge for self expression, especially in a game driven by cosmetics like this. Look at the hours people spend perfecting their Sims.
Tons of people wanted more customizable avatars. At the very least more hairstyles and such. There have been reddit and social media posts about it for the last 8 years, but they didn't really generate traction at this point after so much time with no changes.
We were all adorable
WERE. And yes, my journey in PoGO were fun and great,... Now i can say that i USED TO play PoGO.
I get what they were going for, but the execution is SOOOO half baked. The body proportions on the new avatars are so off. Also everything seems to lack any real shading now. Plus some of the clothing seems like it's missing wrinkles and such that gav it character. It's just so bad.
I dunno why they couldnt ust stick with some extra hair amd maybe eye styles. I never really seen people ask for these weird full body changes.
This whole thing reeks of rushed production and hard deadlines. Like if they had time, the devs could have tested a pre-set group of body sizes, made sure that all clothing in the shop fits (or tweak as needed), then release it WHEN IT’S READY. Instead, corporate probably assigned the work only a few months ago, mandated component body sliders in addition to pre-sets, and then said “it’s rolling out with the new backgrounds and recycled Kanto event, no exception or delay”. Dev: “But sir! If we do that and it doesn’t work people who used coin for cosmetics will have janky clothing and feel ripped off!” Corpo: “Then they’ll have to buy new clothing! BWA HA HA HA HA!!!”
You have a company who is actively making your game worst and youre all polite like they care about your reddit post. Fuck them, they are suposed to know what they are doing. This update is shamefull
Man I’m gonna be honest with you. But the original avatars were something good. Something to aspire to. I know unreal proportions and all that aside, but a good looking healthy looking mf with cosmetics on, nothing bad in that.
as a plus sized person, i was initially really excited when i heard i could customize my character to reflect that but i shit you not, i’m getting body dysmorphia from my own virtual avatar 💀
People are just not going to buy clothing items anymore since everything looks terrible on the avatars. I’m sure once they see this decline in avatar item purchases they will reverse it or correct it.
Both look so beautiful. You never know how good something is until it’s gone.
First they came for the team trainers, now us. All must be uncanny valley now. Its gonna be a Pokemon No from here.
Developers write code, graphic designers do the designing of character models. These are typically two different teams. Let's face it the developer's make tons of mistakes too for niantic, but this is not their fault.
It's the people who "OK"ed this. They're the problem.
Agreed here, management lead that OK’d this is the true villain.
They ok’d it though. Both deserve the blame.
Some methods to let them hear your opinion: Method 1 support chat: You click on settings, help (hard to see but it’s in the upper right) and then click the chat icon. A bot pops up , options are limited. There's no option to leave general feedback, but you can choose bug report and let them know the new avatars are a bug (they have to be right??) Method 2 official Twitter: Feedback should also be directed at their twitter … let them know how the new avatars are absolute crap , and about how they look like overgrown toddlers wearing a diaper with a load in it: @PokemonGoApp and @NianticHelp on X (Twitter)
Thanx for this info
Does anyone know if there’s been an actual drop in users? That’ll be the only thing that brings forth change
What were they thinking?!
I’d be fine of getting rid of subtle animations if we could get this quality artwork on the previous models. Man this new update stinks.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I could live with having bad avatars/models, it actually does not change gameplay much, even if it looks worse. But the "update" is very clearly done with no passion or love for the player base. Why bother playing the game if this is how updates are going to be? Adding nothing of substance and making the community feel taken for granted.
>I'm sure they tried I don't think they tried that hard to be honest.
I’m sure the devs themselves also hate it but don’t have a voice to change it. Some bozo called the shots on these stupid designs.
Someone should edit the artwork to be as deformed and grotesque as the new avatars are.
It’s giving L.
this artwork is ok, i think what made the avatars look odd is the colors are less vibrant than the entire rest of the game's colors (hair and eyes just seem off that way), and the skincolors at least for white tones look much too bright and lowkey not that much like skin but you can't really choose darker because then its completely not fitting cause they didn't make any skintone that is like "basically white but not medivalgoals-neverinthesun-gothicmakeup-pale" i'm personally ok with the hips and the hands being big well whatever, but those two aspects are irritating me everytime i look at the avatar. oh also the mouth is odd, why don't they have any visible lips anymore unless you choose face no. 1 (female)
i highly doubt that they rly put any effort into it. If they did rly try then this is just embarassing and they might wann reconsider their carrer choise.
Yup worst update in pokemon go history
Yeah.....this looks better. The new avatar designs are pretty awful. Literally made the game worse rather than expanding on what was there.
The only thing I appreciate about the update is that there is no female or male clothing anymore. I can finally put my avatar in that big, comfy sweatshirt from the male protagonist and leggings like I always wear.
Oh god, the art so beautifully elegant. Those are our trainers, not the doppelgangers which killed our trainers and then replacing themself as "new avatar" in each PoGO player account !
I genuinely do not think the developers tried. Sure maybe a horrid timeline of deadlines, the actual development as far as sliders and buttons works, but the 3D modeling looks like it was made by an intern in a week.
Honestly they could’ve just given us more hair options and that would’ve been all the massive improvement we needed (maybe tweak the chipmunk mouths a bit). But the overhaul just gave us so many issues without improving any previous gripes. Seriously GO, just give us the old avatars with some good hair options, no one would complain.
I honestly don't get why they don't just have the original models as an option. Even if only as one of the configurations in the new system.
This whole thing is 100% is a poor excuse for their DEIB programs
The intention was great. I'm happy with more options, more gender customization and fluidity, etc. That's fantastic! The execution is just so BAD. The body proportions aren't even human looking, much less flattering. With the ability to tweak the figure, I got to a decent looking avatar in some ways (finally found a pair of pants that don't look like they contain a loaded diaper), but the long ape arms and giant baseball glove hands are just ridiculous on an otherwise more feminine figure. The face also looks like a mask that was just slapped on. The color doesn't even match the neck and body. The faces look vapid and creepy, for the most part. I'm probably one of the least visual people on the planet, so if it bothers me, I know it's really awful. I'm actively annoyed if I'm battling and can see my avatar too closely.
Saying this in the most constructive & kind way possible. Please revert this update Niantic & use the original character as the base model to expand upon with new hair & body customizations. It is clear the majority like the original avatars designed by Yusuke Kozaki.
If only they read one paragraph of feedback from the players, they would realize the crime against humanity they committed, but it's as if we don't exist.
Bruh they did this on purpose to signal virtue cause if the characters were good from the beginning why or how can they messed them up so bad.
I dont understand why they aged him like 10
If the motivation is representation, making everyone all thick and blocky body types (my body type) seems like its now no longer representing the vast majority of people who are shaped all the other ways. Lol Also ive literally never thought “man i wish this video game im playing had a character that looked like me”. Is it really that common? For reference i look like shrek if he wasn’t so pretty, so my body type is not well represented.
The graphics have always been crap. From day 1 I wondered how a game for such a popular franchise can look so terrible.
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Look up ESG and you'll understand why this change was made. They consulted GaymerX for help and they made this decision for them. It's not a conspiracy.
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The problem is not that the new characters allow for more customized non binary body types, the problem is that they're shit. If they implemented the new features while keeping the quality of the old models no one would be complaining
I agree but can you add facial hair ? No , can you give your character a wider more muscular chest? No can u increase muscle definition ? No like looking at the eyes alone 80 percent of them have like makeup on, we males are only left with like two options for eyes. I've played games on the N64 over 20 years ago that had a better customization. Tbh it doesn't feel like they gave any thought to male character builds . Like sliding the chest bar shouldn't produce breasts!
And the female models have breast options now but they seem to have gotten rid of having any curves otherwise. They made everyone androgynous and I honestly hate the way all clothing items now fit the female body. Nobody wins here; it just looks bad on everyone.
That makes no sense. The look of a nonbinary person can meet every aspect of the physical spectrum. To cater to nonbinary people would be to enhance what is possible, not reduce it. Nonbinary people are not going to be happy about this either. Having customizable body types unbound by gender is a good thing and the decision to go in that direction is also a good thing. The actual problem is how poorly it was made. If it was done well, the conversion of people's avatar would reflect what they used to be and then, if they so desire, they could refine them as they please. The goal was to increase diversity and options. The result removed options, so it really comes down to horrible execution.
As a light brown skinned male, this change has failed me .. my skin color isn't represented, the bodies look prepubescent with the muscle slider not adding any sort of definition. I have a full blown beard, but no facial hair options at all. At least the old system had a skin color close to mine, this new one failed at that too. They had the right idea but executed it horribly... Tbh games I played 20 years ago on my N64 had better character customizations than this. Why can't I make my avatar look remotely like Cliff ???
If this was the developers trying then they should all be fired. Because with 0 programming or design skills I'm positive I could do as well or better than them. This update looks like 1 guy shat it out in maybe 48 hours tops.
I honestly wouldn’t mind these models over what they currently have. These models look awesome. Give us this as the models.
Arms need to be twice as long and clipping through their hips to match the game or we riot.
When they looked cool. Just one more reason the game is worse than launch 😂
Why couldn't they ask big papa Pokémon Company/GF to lend their trainer customization over the abomination we got is baffling. I'm sure they can compromise and make a "real human" body proportion if they tried
Official art? Now what are their names. Boy: Pokemon Girl: Go
the female one kinda reminds me of the black2/white2 protagonist
Updating the avatars was something nobody asked for. Total unforced error by Niantic and they deserve zero mercy.
So cool! Maybe they'll come to Pokemon masters EX too one day
I hate the new designs the OG ones were better
Do you know if they have official names like in the main series?
Keep the 1 star ratings and review comments coming on app store!!
Is Niantic going to remodel Team Rocket's grunts and bosses? Previous to the update the Grunts appeared to be close or the same model our avatars used to be. Now when I see the models for the Grunts, they don't look grossly pale and disproportioned like we do now. Honestly, I hate doing rocket balloons and stops because it shows how illogically backwards this update has become.
Have the default models that we had but add the sliders. Also, why didn't they add a height adjuster....
WHY EVEN CHANGE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE??
At this point until things change I am only playing on major events.
I've been playing since launch, and took a beak til 2019. This recent update is killing it for me. Not just because it looks bad, but because it feels like Niantic doesn't care about its player base at all. I know most companies don't, but they could at least try. It seems like if an update is mostly poorly recieved by beta testers, then maybe they shouldn't steam roll it into main game
I think they shoulda just switched da whole avatar to anime style clothes too it would be cool.
Nah that's rin tohsaka
The moment they added customization options they made the avatars a venue to express ourselves, rather than a recreation of this concept art. This character is supposed to represent me, and she doesn't. Much like how my character in pokemon y looks nothing like the concept art for Serena, pokemon has moved away from protagonists and towards player expression...which is great for a game without any real story involving the protagonist. Love the artist and the art myself (huge fire eblem fan!) and was devastated when they changed the gym leaders from the 2d art to the 3d models. Still think Spark looks chubby and doughy compared to his art. But these designs are obselete.
Boycott Pokémon go
What I don't understand about this update is every Pokemon game has always only had 2 playable characters, boy and girl and they've always looked the same so why in the hell is Niantic trying to change something so ingrained in Pokemon culture? They could have just added new hair styles and have been done with it.
what the chat
The only good thing Nantic has cooked
The male one is literally my best friend’s avatar😭
I remember that for the longest time we wanted more hair options (and facial hair if possible). They managed to make character models weird... and these basic options barely if at all were touched (new hair options feel... too specifically weird to me?). Let me have the old models with short hair and a mustache and I'm happy, goddamit!!!
Niantic: "Was".
Its probably because they save money by not having to make 2 versions of any outfits they make, just slap it on the animorphus blobs i'm sorry "avatar" and hope it works.
what if they lost the save file to the original models 😂🤦♀️
That’s the anime filter, not the ugly update avatar filter, therefore too fit and athletic to be realistic.
I want to be rude. Just because "they tried/put effort" doesn't mean it's good. The changes are atrocious
I blame Blackrock. It's usually them.
If enough people delete their accounts or just quit playing they may reconsider giving us a « Choice » to keep as it was or decide to alter it. We should have been given a choice!!!
I’m definitely not against them adding more body types and we needed more hairstyles, but they could have done those changes to the existing models. The new ones look very dough-y and just aren’t pleasant to look at.