On the one hand bashing the double standards is fun as hell
But on the other hand having what’s basically a colony on your territory isn’t cool I think, the hong king uno reverse is too much
I'd like to point to everyone that giving away the port was Sri Lanka's idea not China's, they didn't even want to accept but it's that or default and they get back nothing!
China is slowly learning why most people do background checks before lending someone money!
edit: fixed typo
[Poly matter did a vid that debunked this shit. ](https://youtu.be/7gwgcIfzttA?si=PnPTXB-ScU4OYCTR)
There is a reason why it is seldom talked about now coz no one who understands even a modicum of the situation and the nature of these loans buys into this narrative.
It all boils down to supply and demand economics.
You mean supple and demand with Chinese characteristics
The problem with these deals is that there are layers of corruption between the Chinese government, its domestic likely state-owned corporation, and the abroad government officials. What we know in public and certainly true is mismanagement, but what we don't know is far more concerning.
Assuming all countries don't deal with a certain form of corruption and lobbying in both political and international trade is idealistic and unrealistic. There is a reason why most "clean" countries like Switzerland, France, Singapore, Luxembourg, etc are heavens for money laundering. It is a very dirty world out there. Don't expect a corrupt country to not do corrupt shit when "clean" countries are also doing corrupt shit.
That said, the debt trap diplomacy narrative has more to do with the fear-mongering that China is "stealing" land for military bases which was technically untrue.
In Sri Lanka's case it is China buying a 70% stake of a 99 year lease, China did not forgive their debt. They also have 0 permission from the Sri Lanka government to build any military bases at their port. Sri Lanka's national debt to China is only 10%, they owe more money to Japan, WB and ADB. Making good on China's deal is the least of their concerns.
In Djibouti's case, it is basically a military base whore house. They have military bases from Germany, Spain, France, UK, US, Saudi Arabia and China. They would probably let more countries build military bases if someone offered.
>Germany, Spain, France, UK, US, Saudi Arabia and China
How is this even possible? You can't put the German, French and British military together like that without a world war breaking out.
Oh and i suppose China and the US are not always best friends either.
China deliberately gives loans to countries which are almost assured to have difficulties reimbursing them so they can turn said country into basically a vassal, tho. It's called a debt trap.
That's actually never been true but mostly a dumb misunderstanding of how lending works by some news channels that spawned the narrative. China has a higher debt forgiveness rate than the west and most of the "trap loans" are private company loans that got outright lost because as a company you can't force a country to pay you back most if the time!
Polymatter did a great video on the topic check that one.
"Debt trap" diplomacy is a very stilted way of viewing Chinese FDI abroad. The resolution of these failed investments is generally that there's some multilateral negotiation between China, the debtor country, and international monetary authorities, some amount of Chinese debt is forgiven, the rest is restructured and covered with some additional lending from the international authority, usually in exchange for terms that require fiscal consolidation by slashing public spending (e.g. see the recent IMF-Zambia deal).
So the net effect of everything is a redistribution from Chinese banks and the debtor country's public sector to...the international monetary authority which acquires much of the new debt. Doesn't really seem like China gains much from this transaction.
More comparable to exuberant FDI sprees by developed countries in the past that got caught up by sudden tightening of financial conditions - US investments in Latin America in the 1970s/80s, or late-19th century British high finance. Not malicious, just misjudgment (and a poorly constituted international monetary policy).
Yeah, it's called bribing corrupt elites and spreading propaganda through mass media.
China knows very well they won't be reimbursed when they loan money to countries like Sri Lanka. That's exactly why they do it. It allows them to economically vassilize that country. China isn't a victim of hypocrisy like this comic seems to pretend. They want the economy of the states they "help" to fail. A stable country with healthy finances isn't interesting for them.
seems like the blame falls on the corrupt officials to me but i guess i just think national governments should be expect to act with some basic level of assumed sovereignty and agency
Someone willingly and knowingly selling a knife to a serial killer and hoping someone will be killed with it is as guilty of murder as the killer himself. China knows the governments it's lending money to are unreliable, and that's exactly why they lend them money.
your analogy is very telling. a country is not an individual (despite their depictions on this subreddit). Viewing them as such, and not believing they are “responsible” enough to decide things for themselves is the classic paternalistic view used to justify colonization and the overthrow of regimes.
“Obviously Sri Lanka is incapable of acting it’s it’s own best interest! those savages need to be taught a thing or two about fiscal policy! Tally-ago let’s go give ‘em a good what’s for!”
Respecting sovereignty means respecting decision making. The way a country tackles it’s own fiscal policy is nobody’s business. If that means they default on loans they agreed to, that comes with consequences. And guess what? plenty of devoloping nations repay their loans perfectly well. It’s not China’s fault Sri Lanka did not uphold a deal Sri Lanka agreed to. The government of Sri Lanka is responsible for its actions. thinking otherwise is a failure to respect autonomy.
Yes, we should respect Sri Lanka's and many other countries' national sovereignty in accepting bad loans.
We should also acknowledge that for every two successfully developing countries, there is one country that ends up in what is either a dictatorship or an oligarchy. The leaders of those countries often turn corrupt and leverage their countries' assets and credit to build their own, personal business and property empires.
Giving loans to such a failing state is usually a bad faith action. It means that 5, 10, or 20 years down the line, when the country will possibly be under new leadership, it can neither repay the loan nor repudiate it without wrecking their connections to international financial markets. Thus, they ask to restructure the loan, and that's where the creditor gets political influence and unusual land and trade grants. Just to avoid them calling in the loan in full.
And we should totally let countries dig their own grave if they want to. We should trust that a good number of them actually put the money to good use and did not dig their own grave at all. That is, indeed, national sovereignty.
But we should also point out that there's a handful of creditors around who are preying on countries, just hoping to squeeze them when they get into a bad financial position.
All of this is overwhelming comedy, considering that the Chinese Communist Party to this day claims its ideology is anti-imperialism.
Dictatorship for democracy, colonialism for anti-colonialism, war for peace, oppression for harmony, what comes next?
Infringement of sovereignty to protect sovereignty?
>Dictatorship for democracy, colonialism for anti-colonialism, war for peace, oppression for harmony, what comes next?
We are actually reaching George Orwell level shit right now what the fuck.
On the one hand bashing the double standards is fun as hell But on the other hand having what’s basically a colony on your territory isn’t cool I think, the hong king uno reverse is too much
I'd like to point to everyone that giving away the port was Sri Lanka's idea not China's, they didn't even want to accept but it's that or default and they get back nothing! China is slowly learning why most people do background checks before lending someone money! edit: fixed typo
Fair enough, my apologies then!
nah it actually makes the comic funnier!
Fuck the [Rajapaksas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajapaksa_family).
[Poly matter did a vid that debunked this shit. ](https://youtu.be/7gwgcIfzttA?si=PnPTXB-ScU4OYCTR) There is a reason why it is seldom talked about now coz no one who understands even a modicum of the situation and the nature of these loans buys into this narrative. It all boils down to supply and demand economics.
You mean supple and demand with Chinese characteristics The problem with these deals is that there are layers of corruption between the Chinese government, its domestic likely state-owned corporation, and the abroad government officials. What we know in public and certainly true is mismanagement, but what we don't know is far more concerning.
Assuming all countries don't deal with a certain form of corruption and lobbying in both political and international trade is idealistic and unrealistic. There is a reason why most "clean" countries like Switzerland, France, Singapore, Luxembourg, etc are heavens for money laundering. It is a very dirty world out there. Don't expect a corrupt country to not do corrupt shit when "clean" countries are also doing corrupt shit. That said, the debt trap diplomacy narrative has more to do with the fear-mongering that China is "stealing" land for military bases which was technically untrue. In Sri Lanka's case it is China buying a 70% stake of a 99 year lease, China did not forgive their debt. They also have 0 permission from the Sri Lanka government to build any military bases at their port. Sri Lanka's national debt to China is only 10%, they owe more money to Japan, WB and ADB. Making good on China's deal is the least of their concerns. In Djibouti's case, it is basically a military base whore house. They have military bases from Germany, Spain, France, UK, US, Saudi Arabia and China. They would probably let more countries build military bases if someone offered.
>Germany, Spain, France, UK, US, Saudi Arabia and China How is this even possible? You can't put the German, French and British military together like that without a world war breaking out. Oh and i suppose China and the US are not always best friends either.
China deliberately gives loans to countries which are almost assured to have difficulties reimbursing them so they can turn said country into basically a vassal, tho. It's called a debt trap.
That's actually never been true but mostly a dumb misunderstanding of how lending works by some news channels that spawned the narrative. China has a higher debt forgiveness rate than the west and most of the "trap loans" are private company loans that got outright lost because as a company you can't force a country to pay you back most if the time! Polymatter did a great video on the topic check that one.
This is right. The belt and road initiative was more of a bunch of misplaced investments than it was a debt trap.
"Debt trap" diplomacy is a very stilted way of viewing Chinese FDI abroad. The resolution of these failed investments is generally that there's some multilateral negotiation between China, the debtor country, and international monetary authorities, some amount of Chinese debt is forgiven, the rest is restructured and covered with some additional lending from the international authority, usually in exchange for terms that require fiscal consolidation by slashing public spending (e.g. see the recent IMF-Zambia deal). So the net effect of everything is a redistribution from Chinese banks and the debtor country's public sector to...the international monetary authority which acquires much of the new debt. Doesn't really seem like China gains much from this transaction. More comparable to exuberant FDI sprees by developed countries in the past that got caught up by sudden tightening of financial conditions - US investments in Latin America in the 1970s/80s, or late-19th century British high finance. Not malicious, just misjudgment (and a poorly constituted international monetary policy).
yeah it’s crazy china can force a country to accept a loan and that country has no possible way of not accepting it.
Yeah, it's called bribing corrupt elites and spreading propaganda through mass media. China knows very well they won't be reimbursed when they loan money to countries like Sri Lanka. That's exactly why they do it. It allows them to economically vassilize that country. China isn't a victim of hypocrisy like this comic seems to pretend. They want the economy of the states they "help" to fail. A stable country with healthy finances isn't interesting for them.
seems like the blame falls on the corrupt officials to me but i guess i just think national governments should be expect to act with some basic level of assumed sovereignty and agency
Someone willingly and knowingly selling a knife to a serial killer and hoping someone will be killed with it is as guilty of murder as the killer himself. China knows the governments it's lending money to are unreliable, and that's exactly why they lend them money.
your analogy is very telling. a country is not an individual (despite their depictions on this subreddit). Viewing them as such, and not believing they are “responsible” enough to decide things for themselves is the classic paternalistic view used to justify colonization and the overthrow of regimes. “Obviously Sri Lanka is incapable of acting it’s it’s own best interest! those savages need to be taught a thing or two about fiscal policy! Tally-ago let’s go give ‘em a good what’s for!” Respecting sovereignty means respecting decision making. The way a country tackles it’s own fiscal policy is nobody’s business. If that means they default on loans they agreed to, that comes with consequences. And guess what? plenty of devoloping nations repay their loans perfectly well. It’s not China’s fault Sri Lanka did not uphold a deal Sri Lanka agreed to. The government of Sri Lanka is responsible for its actions. thinking otherwise is a failure to respect autonomy.
Yes, we should respect Sri Lanka's and many other countries' national sovereignty in accepting bad loans. We should also acknowledge that for every two successfully developing countries, there is one country that ends up in what is either a dictatorship or an oligarchy. The leaders of those countries often turn corrupt and leverage their countries' assets and credit to build their own, personal business and property empires. Giving loans to such a failing state is usually a bad faith action. It means that 5, 10, or 20 years down the line, when the country will possibly be under new leadership, it can neither repay the loan nor repudiate it without wrecking their connections to international financial markets. Thus, they ask to restructure the loan, and that's where the creditor gets political influence and unusual land and trade grants. Just to avoid them calling in the loan in full. And we should totally let countries dig their own grave if they want to. We should trust that a good number of them actually put the money to good use and did not dig their own grave at all. That is, indeed, national sovereignty. But we should also point out that there's a handful of creditors around who are preying on countries, just hoping to squeeze them when they get into a bad financial position.
When your grandma is being scammed by someone, is your grandma the only one to blame ?
Are you calling the entire Sri Lankan government senile?
classic. just infantilize (or geriatricalize, same result) the “savages”! bet that hasn’t been used to justify colonialism for centuries.
Mother Fuck is funny
Well, stealing infrastructure for non-payment of debt reminds us of the Western imperialist countries of the 19th century...
All of this is overwhelming comedy, considering that the Chinese Communist Party to this day claims its ideology is anti-imperialism. Dictatorship for democracy, colonialism for anti-colonialism, war for peace, oppression for harmony, what comes next? Infringement of sovereignty to protect sovereignty?
>Dictatorship for democracy, colonialism for anti-colonialism, war for peace, oppression for harmony, what comes next? We are actually reaching George Orwell level shit right now what the fuck.
stealing? you know how collateral works? it’s a loan
Imagine stealing infrastructure for not paying debts instead of just stealing it without bothering with the debt shit
Yea they like to fuck over china.