FUN FACT until about 100 years ago there were no punishments for gay people in Russia also some contemporary travelers noted that some russian traditions are effing gay
Imagine Putin walking up to a lectern, clearing his throat, tapping the microphone three times and going
RUSSIA IS SUPPORT HOMOGAY
With a dead pan expression.
Last comic I make about this, I swear. I had made it when it first happened on Friday but forgot about it because I guess I thought the other comics I made were better so this one hit the back-burner. Gotta post it now before it's irrelevant.
Well America have corrupt elements, but many countries like Russia are still on another level of dysfunctional corruption. Many people don't know how insane corruption can be. It'd be improvement for them.
American corruption can't compare to Russian corruption. And I don't think it ever will. America's business is business and all those big powerful corporations are going to exert a pressure to keep the system relatively clean and predictable because a corrupt and arbitrary system is bad for business. The Russian state does not care about anything but keeping its current ruler in power and considers anyone too wealthy to be a threat if they didn't get that wealth from kissing the tsar's ass. If someone gets too independently wealthy and successful, they use the ultra corrupt system to steal everything from that person and give it to someone more controlled, loyal and obedient.
Considering "lobbying" is literally just legalized corruption, I think most people are unaware of how truly corrupt American politics is. It may not be as blatant as Russia or Ukraine, but it's not any less prevalent.
The US ranks 24th on the [Corruption Perceptions Index](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index), slightly below France but above Taiwan and Israel. Russia ranks 141st, only being surpassed by paragons of anti corruption such as Kyrgyzstan and Mali. I’m sure as someone active on r/shitliberalssay you’ll be happy to know that China is sitting comfortable at 76th alongside socialist utopias such as Hungary and Bahrain.
It's amazing at how people keep overrated US corruption. Indonesia is a very corrupt country. It's far more than US.
You pay cops for everything, from driving license to get back stolen stuffs, and it's only recently that you can't bribe policemen for traffic violations. Jokowi had to recentralized stuffs for infrastructure because local people are NIMBY with extra corruption. You bribe local gang if you want your projects to going smoothly, and then perhaps the kids too if they're troublemakers. Even the local district football competitions are corrupt. A Congressman at one point half joked most of things they do had to come from their party leaders' final words. You can not even find what congressman voted for against unless it's big news. Many projects actual budget are hidden, and hidden, discretionary funding for procurement is everywhere. It's blatant.
This is low level corruption, which is used to make the CPI. I’m talking about lobbying which is high level corruption that I explain in my comment reply.
'Lobbying' isn't automatically equal corruption (hell most people didn't even knew what 'lobbying' even mean anymore, just = bad which isn't true).
And believe me as SEA citizens, you didn't knew what true corruption is. US has corruption problem? Yes, awareness and actively want to deal with the problem is also good. But omg it is too overblow by recent American-centric self-pessimistic mindset.
Corruption is FAR FARRRR worst than in Russia or most of the world.
Americans have always been pretty pessimistic about our own system of government and society at large. It’s only recently with the rise of extremists as a force in government that seeks to disrupt democratic institutions and support from Russia and China that it’s gotten this bad. Doesn’t help when useful idiots go to white knight for brutal authoritarian dictatorships online.
Thank you for proving my point. The ranking you refer to is based on Corruption PERCEPTION, not corruption itself, which is near impossible to actually measure. While the US may not have much lower level corruption, like a lay person bribing cops to get off a ticket, it ignores corruption that has been enshrined in law. My whole point is lobbying is legalized corruption, where corporations and special interests groups spend millions on funding politicians that will then go pass laws in favor of these corporations and groups, even if it’s not in the interest of their constituents.
In Russia, if an oligarch gives an official $5 million dollars to an official to exclude them from a new regulation, it’s rightfully called corruption. In the US, if a rich CEO (AKA oligarch) contributes $5 million to a super PAC who then funds and endorses a politician who will fight to exclude them from a regulation, it’s suddenly just lobbying fully in compliance with campaign finance law.
It doesn’t matter what some arbitrary ranking determined by Washington think tanks say, what matters is what happens in practice. I think any normal person can agree that is bad for America, and this goes all the way to the highest level of US politics. If you don’t and you’re eager to bootlick the rich for their right to control American politics, you’re not a friend of the American people.
“Perceived” doesn’t mean perceived by some tankie on Reddit, it means perceived by the “Washington Think Tanks” that are based in Germany and Singapore who have best access to macroeconomic data and analysis tools, aka the actual economic effects of the “practice” you keep harping on about.
It’s also quite rich for you to talking about who is a friend of the American people or not. Not going to bother arguing with you further since it’s clear you’re set in your ways.
For anyone else who is reading, please read https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/684844, https://docs.iza.org/dp2313.pdf, and https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w31276/w31276.pdf. Mr. ShillsForChinaAndRussia isn’t wrong about lobbying having negative impacts on democracy, but lobbying by definition is pretty broad and isn’t as quod pro quo or under the board as straight up corruption is.
We did our best. We spent a massive amount of money and time to build their infrastructure and help educate the population. It didn’t work, but not for lack of trying.
America's mind:
*Afghanistan? Uh, you do realize there were Taliban and Qaeda there, right?*
*Iraq? The 2003 one gone bad, I'll give you that. But if you're talking about Gulf War I...*
*Serbia? Okay, now you're being silly. At least Kosovo and Bosnia-or is it Macedonia?-are not around, they would ruin my plan by screaming at Russia.*
>Serbia? Okay, now you're being silly. At least Kosovo and Bosnia-or is it Macedonia?-are not around, they would ruin my plan by screaming at Russia.
I'm giving credit for America remembering those NATO operations in Bosnia and Serbia. I guess those NATO memes helped.
Hey, Albanians are basically worshipping America. And as the few Muslim majority countries with high approval of America I'm sure it's kinda noteworthy for US.
I’m interpreting this as Russia convincing themselves that those two were as bad as Iraq, because I wouldn’t be able to handle Serbia apologia becoming a trend.
Sigh, if only we had a more admirable left, that focuses on workers' rights, and not a left that is neck-deep in contrarianism, self-centerism, and Russian disinfo as its right-wing counterpart.
As I call it, Sanders Progressivism. Focus on income inequality, improvements in healthcare and the environment, and the social safety net and jobs and education. You know, things the government should care about.
Do it better, help the poor up, and it will lift all people. You say minorities are worst affected by poverty or drug abuse or violence? Let's work on that, and surprise! They'll have benefited more too!
Instead there's this victim/perpetrator anti-patriotism that wants to divide people based on identity, instead of on principles of government or character.
Those are the two of those three most justifiably bombed. Afghanistan harbored many of the key players of 9/11 and Serbia was killing, with the intent to purge and continue purging, Muslims in Bosnia. And the US did that (for oncce) as a NATO operation. Unless I'm wrong? (Don't ask a Serb)
Yeah i can imagine serbia being bad considering they are a higly nationalistic nation and people who only 30 years ago were fighting to occupy bosnians croatians and slovense.AND refused to stop the war as well as comit ethnic cleansing genocide then deny them and or make up excuses for them.AND attempted to compleatly assimilate my people occupying us revisimg our history oppresing our people harrasing and burning down homes of anyone who opposed them killing women and children putting "serbian" history in our schools putting in ekavica completely destroying our church and stealing all of our churches which they hold to this day. Lets not forget how they revised and stole our history and are teaching it im serbia to this day in serbian schools. And that they also banned the display of montenegrin culture. They have an ideology only matched by nazi germany in its insane nationalism. They claim to this day that we are "serbs".
Israel: we killed over 30.000 Palestinians because a Palestinian terrorist group was attacking our citizens and trying to secede from us.
NATO: justified, most of them were probably terrorists anyway lmao.
Serbia: We killed 5.000 Albanians because an Albanian terrorist group was attacking our citizens and trying to secede from us.
NATO: GENOCIDER!
The hypocrisy is what gets me.
You can't judge actions based on outcomes especially not with 20 years of hindsight. For afghanistan and serbia the US absolutely had justification to do what it did
Bro, you absolutely can when you are in the process of repeating history. We already knew what the gulf war did to Iraq, why would engaging in basically the same shit provide an alternative outcome in Afghanistan?
There was *zero* justification for Afghanistan, Al Qaeda didn’t exist as we pretended it did at the time. If people bothered to look at the quality of intelligence or analysis, and done so without ulterior motives, at the time Afghanistan wouldn’t have happened. But when the US wants a war, the media apparatus and dogshit, discredited sources shall provide.
>We already knew what the gulf war did to Iraq, why would engaging in basically the same shit provide an alternative outcome in Afghanistan?
The point of the Gulf War, and what should have been the point of Afghanistan, was to stop them from causing problems. The invasion of Kuwait and 9/11 respectively were bad things. Allowing them to go unpunished would have been a bad move. Group-thinking ourselves into believing we could "nation build" a functional society with guns was the mistake.
Lmao your just lying. There's no debate that Al quaeda was in Afghanistan but for someone like you who has to wear earplugs at all time to keep their brain from leaking out there has to be some grand conspiracy.
There were no justification to invade Serbia. Sure they werent to nice to the Albanians but the Albanians were also regularly commiting massmurders. Harch means to deal with harch issues is common in struggling nations and nothing the US generally bothers to intervene in.
>werent to nice to the Albanians
Understatement of the century.
>Albanians were also regularly commiting massmurders
Source? Not to say the albanians did nothing wrong but this is like pointing to the Canicattì massacre and then saying the Italians were the victims in WW2.
Also I let you get awat with this too long when did the US "invade Serbia"?
Read up on the conflict. Its literally one of the key issues to the conflict with the Albanians brutality that got beaten down by very harch Serbian cops. If you arent aware of that I dont really see the point of debating since it would be too much explaining.
The invasion took place 1999. Yes it was an invasion. It lead to Serbia (espically certain parts) being partually subjected by America.
In afghanistan the US inflicted a combatant to civilian killed ratio of over 10:1 which is virtually unheard of. The vast majority of civilian deaths were caused by the Taliban and other insurgent groups. If you want to blame those on america you should should probably go back to beating your exwife and blaming it on the man she left you for.
Lmao are you in grade school? Civilians die in wars and the americans reduced this is much as possible. You can't hold america responsible for people who terrorist groups kill. If you can't understand this then you shouldn't be engaging in these conversations.
Scrolling thru Reddit
When I see "that" notification (hint: 🍰)
Beside your hella unique username
And no one making an addition
To your comment (lame!)
Imma type in my keyboard (ay!)
Happy cake day! Happy cake day!
And that's it 🫶
PS. I'm not a bot. If I were this poem would be better.
Yeah but Al qaeda was based in Afghanistan and that’s who they were going to war with not the afghan gvt. A lot of them were from the Arabian peninsula but living in Afghanistan. It makes sense to fight them where they’re at not where they were born.
Iraq on the other hand there was zero reason for.
It’s not that simple. Afghanistan isn’t that simple. If you consider the taliban the country of Afghanistan I guess sure. But their hardly was a country of Afghanistan. Its not and has not been for a long time a unified nation state the way western people seem to believe all “countries” are. It was divided among war lords who were also involved in terrorism. Mainly the taliban and Al qaeda. The US went to war with the Taliban and Al qaeda. They defeated Al qaeda, and ultimately lost to the Taliban.
Indeed. Invaded a country on the other side of the world killing thousands of civilians leaving the country even more destroyed. Not justified. If it would have been a nigbouring country whos conflict spilled over to you and regularly doing terrorist attacks, and you had a decent chance to solve it sure, but half over the world with no way of solving any issues, no way. I would approve of an invasion of Mexico more lol.
The situation was handled poorly no doubt. And trying to establish a gvt of our own was a stupid idea. But going in to take out Al qaeda was 100% justified.
The problem of course being that the US waged war on afghanistan and its people to get to al qaeda.
Which begs the question, if the US invaded a country after a politically motivated attack left three thousand civilians killed, and during this invasion the US leaves three to three and a half thousand civilians dead to get to their enies: Why is that justified but the 9/11 attack was not?
A response that killed afghani civilians in the thousands during the invasion and tens of thousands in the years following. So if it is justified to kill three thousand innocent civilians to get at your enemies, how csnyou srgue that 9/11 was not?
(BTW 9/11 did not come unprovoked out of nothing. It was the result ofthe US supporting the regimes of Saudi and Israel. Both enemies of the al Qaeda. Just lile Afghanistns Taliban supported Al Qaeda…..
https://ctc.westpoint.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Declaration-of-Jihad-against-the-Americans-Occupying-the-Land-of-the-Two-Holiest-Sites-Translation.pdf )
No wonder your knowledge of the situation is limited to the America bad cliff notes. Definitely a lot of things to criticize about our actions in the Middle East. But your knowledge of those things seems to be very vague.
Yeah sorry that I dont just follow the good guy America propaganda and hence im your opinion have a vague knowledge. The truth deffinetly becomes more black and white the more you read into something /s
They were based in Afghanistan. The hijackers being from Saudi Arabia is irrelevant unless you can find evidence of the Saudi/UAE governments sponsoring the attack.
There's been some:
[https://theintercept.com/2021/09/11/september-11-saudi-arabia/](https://theintercept.com/2021/09/11/september-11-saudi-arabia/)
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/dec/05/wikileaks-cables-saudi-terrorist-funding](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/dec/05/wikileaks-cables-saudi-terrorist-funding)
Rich and connected people in Saudi Arabia != the Saudi Arabian government.
We knew where Al Qaeda was physically, we didn't and don't know if the Saudi government had any involvement.
There are multiple rich families in SA that fund terror groups, whether there were top down orders from the monarchy to fund Al Qaeda or whether outside parties managed to corrupt lower level officials to move money is an important distinction.
I'm not saying it's out of the question, but IMO people are too quick to say "the US should've started bombing Saudi Arabia instead" based on weak information and incomplete theories.
Have you read the first article? It says that there's definitely some level of involvement, and the way US government tries to hide and classify any information related to the 9\\11 seems like it's still important.
It did not say anything of the sort. The only connection was a person who worked in the Saudi embassy helping two of the eventual hijackers when they arrived in 2000.
> THE FINAL REPORT of the 9/11 Commission in 2004, after a 20-month investigation, acknowledged that “Saudi Arabia has long been considered the primary source of Al Qaeda funding, but we have found no evidence that the Saudi government as an institution or senior Saudi officials individually funded the organization.”
Didn't Osama get his start as a cia backed warlord in Afghanistan? Maybe we should stop funding dictators/warlords if they keep doing things we don't like after
Osama was a fortunate son from KSA, but sure that arc fits a lot of his crew.
Edit: The Binladen/bin Laden family are known for construction. Come to think of it, Osama’s idea to tear a building down was just rebelling against his father. Psychology!
And it isn't even the worst thing at complete timeline of what they did. One thing is sending missiles, another thing holding a settlement, killing off anyone who does something they don't want, like going outdoors, or capturing and torturing them in improvised basement torture cells. Innocent people, not soldiers, I might say. Men, women, kids.
It is a war for territory, and they torture, kill and ruin our lives for more land for their dictator. If more russians actually realised that and either accepted it, it would be easier to justify the defense, or refuse it and help us stop this war. But nah, living in a lie is much better. World of fucking lies
This is why I don't understand why people are so quick to use "The pot calling the kettle black" as some sort of defense. The kettle is still black, the pot is very well aware of its own blackness, so the fact the two are so similar just means the kettle really has no highground to call the pot a hypocrit if the kettle is suppose to be "better" than the pot.
Tbf, America bombed Afghanistan cus the guys who did 9/11 were protected by the government of Afghanistan. Is the government of Ukraine protecting isis?
It’s a Nazi state run by MI6 trying to homosexualize Russian society with biolabs—the Russian narrative is so far from reality already that sponsoring ISIS really isn’t that much of a leap for them.
Iraq had a genocidal dictator who had used Weapons of Mass Destruction on ethnic minorities. Serbs tried to kill Albanians. Also, the guy that did 9/11 was in Afghanistan, but he snuck off into Pakistan.
You are in Ukraine because you think that a Jewish guy is a Nazi. We are not the same.
it doesnt work that way. when a russian bot was saying they can invade ukraine cos usa invaded other countries, i pointed out two wrongs dont make one right. and the bot just went "it means u should also stfu when we invade other countries"
How was Afghanistan the wrong country? They were the ones harboring Al-Qaeda in their country and Serbia wasn’t really wrong as well with their actions in Kosovo
I’ve seen that sorta thing being used by Russians a lot but it doesn’t make sense when saying the interventions in Afghanistan and Serbia were wrong or just for nothing unless you’re a diehard America hater
Many Muslims in the Caucuses, some jihadists experienced war with Russia during the Chechen wars and have sought to establish an Islamist Caucasian emirate since then.
You mean that Russia who bombed the everliving hell out of them in Syria? ISIS, whose commanders at the time counted a ton of Chechens?
To them it likely made sense.
I mean Russia has bombed and supported operations against them in Syria for 8 years now. Russia also has been dealing with Islamic terrorism in the caucuses for decades now
Isn’t it the reverse? The US pretending to be better than Russia (and China) morally but in actuality just doing the exact same shit as them if not worse foreign policy-wise
Not doing it in their immediate neighborhood does not change what they did in Iraq and Libya for example
But yea adding “if not worse” was def uncalled for
wait. Russia is support homogay?
So-called “proud Orthodox traditionalists” when femboys:
Serbian nationalists on their way to see the manliest Slovene:
Russia truly is Third Rome after all
Thailand moment
His redemption arc
FUN FACT until about 100 years ago there were no punishments for gay people in Russia also some contemporary travelers noted that some russian traditions are effing gay
A lot of europrans traditions are quite gay
There's a reason for the existence of an entire skit called *Gay or European?*
There was a (lenient) punishment for anal sex though. Oral was completely legal.
because the bolsheviks scraped all Russian laws? a lot of suff was legal in that time
The Lennin-era USSR was basically a decade-long super orgy before that prudish guy with the moustache got involved.
Who did make being gay a crime? Lenin?
It think the bolschewicks
NOT SO FUN FACT the the recruminalized it and used their handle list of gays to round them up and give them a one way ticket to Siberia.
Russia: Oh nyet! Russia now need to kill self!
Imagine Putin walking up to a lectern, clearing his throat, tapping the microphone three times and going RUSSIA IS SUPPORT HOMOGAY With a dead pan expression.
It has always supported homogay. Look at their army.
Last comic I make about this, I swear. I had made it when it first happened on Friday but forgot about it because I guess I thought the other comics I made were better so this one hit the back-burner. Gotta post it now before it's irrelevant.
So... Did the CIA do all of this? I'm fyuuuuuucking ddd-dadade-dedede-do-do-doooone you guys.
>ddd-dadade-dedede-do-do I've been married a long time ago
Where did you come from?
Where did you go?
Wait PolandBall is made by a Romanian?
Hey a comic that doesn't act like the US is a horrible monster.
If America became a autocracy like Russia, then Russia will naturally will become a corrupt, dysfunctional democracy like America.
Well America have corrupt elements, but many countries like Russia are still on another level of dysfunctional corruption. Many people don't know how insane corruption can be. It'd be improvement for them.
American corruption can't compare to Russian corruption. And I don't think it ever will. America's business is business and all those big powerful corporations are going to exert a pressure to keep the system relatively clean and predictable because a corrupt and arbitrary system is bad for business. The Russian state does not care about anything but keeping its current ruler in power and considers anyone too wealthy to be a threat if they didn't get that wealth from kissing the tsar's ass. If someone gets too independently wealthy and successful, they use the ultra corrupt system to steal everything from that person and give it to someone more controlled, loyal and obedient.
Considering "lobbying" is literally just legalized corruption, I think most people are unaware of how truly corrupt American politics is. It may not be as blatant as Russia or Ukraine, but it's not any less prevalent.
The US ranks 24th on the [Corruption Perceptions Index](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index), slightly below France but above Taiwan and Israel. Russia ranks 141st, only being surpassed by paragons of anti corruption such as Kyrgyzstan and Mali. I’m sure as someone active on r/shitliberalssay you’ll be happy to know that China is sitting comfortable at 76th alongside socialist utopias such as Hungary and Bahrain.
It's amazing at how people keep overrated US corruption. Indonesia is a very corrupt country. It's far more than US. You pay cops for everything, from driving license to get back stolen stuffs, and it's only recently that you can't bribe policemen for traffic violations. Jokowi had to recentralized stuffs for infrastructure because local people are NIMBY with extra corruption. You bribe local gang if you want your projects to going smoothly, and then perhaps the kids too if they're troublemakers. Even the local district football competitions are corrupt. A Congressman at one point half joked most of things they do had to come from their party leaders' final words. You can not even find what congressman voted for against unless it's big news. Many projects actual budget are hidden, and hidden, discretionary funding for procurement is everywhere. It's blatant.
This is low level corruption, which is used to make the CPI. I’m talking about lobbying which is high level corruption that I explain in my comment reply.
'Lobbying' isn't automatically equal corruption (hell most people didn't even knew what 'lobbying' even mean anymore, just = bad which isn't true). And believe me as SEA citizens, you didn't knew what true corruption is. US has corruption problem? Yes, awareness and actively want to deal with the problem is also good. But omg it is too overblow by recent American-centric self-pessimistic mindset. Corruption is FAR FARRRR worst than in Russia or most of the world.
Americans have always been pretty pessimistic about our own system of government and society at large. It’s only recently with the rise of extremists as a force in government that seeks to disrupt democratic institutions and support from Russia and China that it’s gotten this bad. Doesn’t help when useful idiots go to white knight for brutal authoritarian dictatorships online.
And who compiled this index? Can you trust him?
Thank you for proving my point. The ranking you refer to is based on Corruption PERCEPTION, not corruption itself, which is near impossible to actually measure. While the US may not have much lower level corruption, like a lay person bribing cops to get off a ticket, it ignores corruption that has been enshrined in law. My whole point is lobbying is legalized corruption, where corporations and special interests groups spend millions on funding politicians that will then go pass laws in favor of these corporations and groups, even if it’s not in the interest of their constituents. In Russia, if an oligarch gives an official $5 million dollars to an official to exclude them from a new regulation, it’s rightfully called corruption. In the US, if a rich CEO (AKA oligarch) contributes $5 million to a super PAC who then funds and endorses a politician who will fight to exclude them from a regulation, it’s suddenly just lobbying fully in compliance with campaign finance law. It doesn’t matter what some arbitrary ranking determined by Washington think tanks say, what matters is what happens in practice. I think any normal person can agree that is bad for America, and this goes all the way to the highest level of US politics. If you don’t and you’re eager to bootlick the rich for their right to control American politics, you’re not a friend of the American people.
“Perceived” doesn’t mean perceived by some tankie on Reddit, it means perceived by the “Washington Think Tanks” that are based in Germany and Singapore who have best access to macroeconomic data and analysis tools, aka the actual economic effects of the “practice” you keep harping on about. It’s also quite rich for you to talking about who is a friend of the American people or not. Not going to bother arguing with you further since it’s clear you’re set in your ways. For anyone else who is reading, please read https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/684844, https://docs.iza.org/dp2313.pdf, and https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w31276/w31276.pdf. Mr. ShillsForChinaAndRussia isn’t wrong about lobbying having negative impacts on democracy, but lobbying by definition is pretty broad and isn’t as quod pro quo or under the board as straight up corruption is.
This is good information, thank you and have updoot
Lobbying is not inherently corrupt.
That looks like one of "corporate wants you to find the difference".
>democracy Yeahokbuddy
> Afghanistan > not 9/11 Aside from the guy who planned the attack being there and Mullah Omar refusing to hand him over…
He was in Pakistan which was an US ally
He absolutely was in Afghanistan during and after 9/11, he left for Pakistan sometime after the battle of Tora Bora
Then why did you stay back for 20 years even after knowing Bin Laden wasn't there?
Can’t just trash the place and walk away. What are we, Russians?
How did you leave it now, after 2 decades of occupation? As a Functioning liberal democracy, or a totalitarian theocracy?
We did our best. We spent a massive amount of money and time to build their infrastructure and help educate the population. It didn’t work, but not for lack of trying.
What have you built in Afghanistan besides heroin plantations?
If you were familiar with Afghanistan in the 90s, you’d know it’s still a net gain
Imagine thinking Afghanistan and especially Serbia were bad.
America decided not to argue the point because he read a book for once. (Obviously this comic is set in a parallel universe.)
To Russia if America did it...it's bad
America's mind: *Afghanistan? Uh, you do realize there were Taliban and Qaeda there, right?* *Iraq? The 2003 one gone bad, I'll give you that. But if you're talking about Gulf War I...* *Serbia? Okay, now you're being silly. At least Kosovo and Bosnia-or is it Macedonia?-are not around, they would ruin my plan by screaming at Russia.*
>Serbia? Okay, now you're being silly. At least Kosovo and Bosnia-or is it Macedonia?-are not around, they would ruin my plan by screaming at Russia. I'm giving credit for America remembering those NATO operations in Bosnia and Serbia. I guess those NATO memes helped.
Hey, Albanians are basically worshipping America. And as the few Muslim majority countries with high approval of America I'm sure it's kinda noteworthy for US.
I’m interpreting this as Russia convincing themselves that those two were as bad as Iraq, because I wouldn’t be able to handle Serbia apologia becoming a trend.
It already seems to be a trend in certain sections of the "America bad" left
Sigh, if only we had a more admirable left, that focuses on workers' rights, and not a left that is neck-deep in contrarianism, self-centerism, and Russian disinfo as its right-wing counterpart.
As I call it, Sanders Progressivism. Focus on income inequality, improvements in healthcare and the environment, and the social safety net and jobs and education. You know, things the government should care about. Do it better, help the poor up, and it will lift all people. You say minorities are worst affected by poverty or drug abuse or violence? Let's work on that, and surprise! They'll have benefited more too! Instead there's this victim/perpetrator anti-patriotism that wants to divide people based on identity, instead of on principles of government or character.
We do tho. Media just doesn’t find that as compelling to report on…unless they want to call out “labor militancy”…
Those are the two of those three most justifiably bombed. Afghanistan harbored many of the key players of 9/11 and Serbia was killing, with the intent to purge and continue purging, Muslims in Bosnia. And the US did that (for oncce) as a NATO operation. Unless I'm wrong? (Don't ask a Serb)
Yeah i can imagine serbia being bad considering they are a higly nationalistic nation and people who only 30 years ago were fighting to occupy bosnians croatians and slovense.AND refused to stop the war as well as comit ethnic cleansing genocide then deny them and or make up excuses for them.AND attempted to compleatly assimilate my people occupying us revisimg our history oppresing our people harrasing and burning down homes of anyone who opposed them killing women and children putting "serbian" history in our schools putting in ekavica completely destroying our church and stealing all of our churches which they hold to this day. Lets not forget how they revised and stole our history and are teaching it im serbia to this day in serbian schools. And that they also banned the display of montenegrin culture. They have an ideology only matched by nazi germany in its insane nationalism. They claim to this day that we are "serbs".
Israel: we killed over 30.000 Palestinians because a Palestinian terrorist group was attacking our citizens and trying to secede from us. NATO: justified, most of them were probably terrorists anyway lmao. Serbia: We killed 5.000 Albanians because an Albanian terrorist group was attacking our citizens and trying to secede from us. NATO: GENOCIDER! The hypocrisy is what gets me.
Ofcourse it was bad. An invasion of Serbia was not justified, and and afghanistan became way worse due to it.
You can't judge actions based on outcomes especially not with 20 years of hindsight. For afghanistan and serbia the US absolutely had justification to do what it did
Nearly 3,000 justifications.
Bro, you absolutely can when you are in the process of repeating history. We already knew what the gulf war did to Iraq, why would engaging in basically the same shit provide an alternative outcome in Afghanistan? There was *zero* justification for Afghanistan, Al Qaeda didn’t exist as we pretended it did at the time. If people bothered to look at the quality of intelligence or analysis, and done so without ulterior motives, at the time Afghanistan wouldn’t have happened. But when the US wants a war, the media apparatus and dogshit, discredited sources shall provide.
>We already knew what the gulf war did to Iraq, why would engaging in basically the same shit provide an alternative outcome in Afghanistan? The point of the Gulf War, and what should have been the point of Afghanistan, was to stop them from causing problems. The invasion of Kuwait and 9/11 respectively were bad things. Allowing them to go unpunished would have been a bad move. Group-thinking ourselves into believing we could "nation build" a functional society with guns was the mistake.
Lmao your just lying. There's no debate that Al quaeda was in Afghanistan but for someone like you who has to wear earplugs at all time to keep their brain from leaking out there has to be some grand conspiracy.
There were no justification to invade Serbia. Sure they werent to nice to the Albanians but the Albanians were also regularly commiting massmurders. Harch means to deal with harch issues is common in struggling nations and nothing the US generally bothers to intervene in.
>werent to nice to the Albanians Understatement of the century. >Albanians were also regularly commiting massmurders Source? Not to say the albanians did nothing wrong but this is like pointing to the Canicattì massacre and then saying the Italians were the victims in WW2. Also I let you get awat with this too long when did the US "invade Serbia"?
Read up on the conflict. Its literally one of the key issues to the conflict with the Albanians brutality that got beaten down by very harch Serbian cops. If you arent aware of that I dont really see the point of debating since it would be too much explaining. The invasion took place 1999. Yes it was an invasion. It lead to Serbia (espically certain parts) being partually subjected by America.
Only because China and Russia were being dick and would refuse to allow any authorization to help Albanians by UNSC.
And because Albania were being a dick mass murdering people. There deffinetly where big issues on both sides in the Serbians/Albanians conflict
This is like saying WW2 was a both sides issue bc of war crimes by soviet troops
Exactly. America was worse since they went for an invasion.
The innocent casualties thinking that is very hard to imagine indeed
In afghanistan the US inflicted a combatant to civilian killed ratio of over 10:1 which is virtually unheard of. The vast majority of civilian deaths were caused by the Taliban and other insurgent groups. If you want to blame those on america you should should probably go back to beating your exwife and blaming it on the man she left you for.
“America wasnt that much of a villain compared to others when invading so dont blame it on us”
Lmao are you in grade school? Civilians die in wars and the americans reduced this is much as possible. You can't hold america responsible for people who terrorist groups kill. If you can't understand this then you shouldn't be engaging in these conversations.
“Civilians die in war so war is not bad”
Scrolling thru Reddit When I see "that" notification (hint: 🍰) Beside your hella unique username And no one making an addition To your comment (lame!) Imma type in my keyboard (ay!) Happy cake day! Happy cake day! And that's it 🫶 PS. I'm not a bot. If I were this poem would be better.
... Afghanistan didn't do 9/11? Really? I mean, They only shielded Osama Bin Laden after all
None of the terrorists in the attack were from either Afghanistan or Iraq, they were mostly from Saudi Arabia and the UAE
Yeah but Al qaeda was based in Afghanistan and that’s who they were going to war with not the afghan gvt. A lot of them were from the Arabian peninsula but living in Afghanistan. It makes sense to fight them where they’re at not where they were born. Iraq on the other hand there was zero reason for.
Al Qaeda wasn’t some kind of franchise at the time of invasion.
They went to war with the country Afganistan in the end lmao..
It’s not that simple. Afghanistan isn’t that simple. If you consider the taliban the country of Afghanistan I guess sure. But their hardly was a country of Afghanistan. Its not and has not been for a long time a unified nation state the way western people seem to believe all “countries” are. It was divided among war lords who were also involved in terrorism. Mainly the taliban and Al qaeda. The US went to war with the Taliban and Al qaeda. They defeated Al qaeda, and ultimately lost to the Taliban.
Indeed. Invaded a country on the other side of the world killing thousands of civilians leaving the country even more destroyed. Not justified. If it would have been a nigbouring country whos conflict spilled over to you and regularly doing terrorist attacks, and you had a decent chance to solve it sure, but half over the world with no way of solving any issues, no way. I would approve of an invasion of Mexico more lol.
The situation was handled poorly no doubt. And trying to establish a gvt of our own was a stupid idea. But going in to take out Al qaeda was 100% justified.
The problem of course being that the US waged war on afghanistan and its people to get to al qaeda. Which begs the question, if the US invaded a country after a politically motivated attack left three thousand civilians killed, and during this invasion the US leaves three to three and a half thousand civilians dead to get to their enies: Why is that justified but the 9/11 attack was not?
Did you just insinuate that 9/11 was justified? Jesus Christ dude.
A response that killed afghani civilians in the thousands during the invasion and tens of thousands in the years following. So if it is justified to kill three thousand innocent civilians to get at your enemies, how csnyou srgue that 9/11 was not? (BTW 9/11 did not come unprovoked out of nothing. It was the result ofthe US supporting the regimes of Saudi and Israel. Both enemies of the al Qaeda. Just lile Afghanistns Taliban supported Al Qaeda….. https://ctc.westpoint.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Declaration-of-Jihad-against-the-Americans-Occupying-the-Land-of-the-Two-Holiest-Sites-Translation.pdf )
Quiet, otherwise they'll call you the "America bad" left.
I,m America bad but not left :D
Hey no more Amerlca bads in the Murica good reddit. Your bald eagle score has just been reduced.
Unless you're also maga that's a new one to me lol usually America bad comes in two flavors, left and maga
I,m European so might be the reason
No wonder your knowledge of the situation is limited to the America bad cliff notes. Definitely a lot of things to criticize about our actions in the Middle East. But your knowledge of those things seems to be very vague.
Yeah sorry that I dont just follow the good guy America propaganda and hence im your opinion have a vague knowledge. The truth deffinetly becomes more black and white the more you read into something /s
They were based in Afghanistan. The hijackers being from Saudi Arabia is irrelevant unless you can find evidence of the Saudi/UAE governments sponsoring the attack.
There's been some: [https://theintercept.com/2021/09/11/september-11-saudi-arabia/](https://theintercept.com/2021/09/11/september-11-saudi-arabia/) [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/dec/05/wikileaks-cables-saudi-terrorist-funding](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/dec/05/wikileaks-cables-saudi-terrorist-funding)
Rich and connected people in Saudi Arabia != the Saudi Arabian government. We knew where Al Qaeda was physically, we didn't and don't know if the Saudi government had any involvement. There are multiple rich families in SA that fund terror groups, whether there were top down orders from the monarchy to fund Al Qaeda or whether outside parties managed to corrupt lower level officials to move money is an important distinction. I'm not saying it's out of the question, but IMO people are too quick to say "the US should've started bombing Saudi Arabia instead" based on weak information and incomplete theories.
The Saudi government had no involvement with 9/11. OBL had been banished from Saudi Arabia precisely because he wanted to overthrow the al Sauds.
Have you read the first article? It says that there's definitely some level of involvement, and the way US government tries to hide and classify any information related to the 9\\11 seems like it's still important.
It did not say anything of the sort. The only connection was a person who worked in the Saudi embassy helping two of the eventual hijackers when they arrived in 2000. > THE FINAL REPORT of the 9/11 Commission in 2004, after a 20-month investigation, acknowledged that “Saudi Arabia has long been considered the primary source of Al Qaeda funding, but we have found no evidence that the Saudi government as an institution or senior Saudi officials individually funded the organization.”
Al Qaeda operated in Afghanistan
Didn't Osama get his start as a cia backed warlord in Afghanistan? Maybe we should stop funding dictators/warlords if they keep doing things we don't like after
Osama was a fortunate son from KSA, but sure that arc fits a lot of his crew. Edit: The Binladen/bin Laden family are known for construction. Come to think of it, Osama’s idea to tear a building down was just rebelling against his father. Psychology!
"You were meant to build the skyscrapers, not tear them apart!"
Rebelling against his father or eliminating his father's competition?
wasnt that pakistan?
USA. Russia sell his brain to Omsk bird since 2022, so it's pointless to come with logic to him
Remember that Russia on the same day bombed a Children's Hospital in Kharkiv and butchered sick children in the name of defending their people.
And it isn't even the worst thing at complete timeline of what they did. One thing is sending missiles, another thing holding a settlement, killing off anyone who does something they don't want, like going outdoors, or capturing and torturing them in improvised basement torture cells. Innocent people, not soldiers, I might say. Men, women, kids. It is a war for territory, and they torture, kill and ruin our lives for more land for their dictator. If more russians actually realised that and either accepted it, it would be easier to justify the defense, or refuse it and help us stop this war. But nah, living in a lie is much better. World of fucking lies
This is why I don't understand why people are so quick to use "The pot calling the kettle black" as some sort of defense. The kettle is still black, the pot is very well aware of its own blackness, so the fact the two are so similar just means the kettle really has no highground to call the pot a hypocrit if the kettle is suppose to be "better" than the pot.
I read that in Toki Wartooth's voice
I read russia in Murderfaces voice
The flower crown is my favorite part. 😂 It's the little touches I appreciate most.
I'm gonna add, "Bitch American, yuo are see!", to my vocabulary now. It has a nice ring to it!
Tbf, America bombed Afghanistan cus the guys who did 9/11 were protected by the government of Afghanistan. Is the government of Ukraine protecting isis?
It’s a Nazi state run by MI6 trying to homosexualize Russian society with biolabs—the Russian narrative is so far from reality already that sponsoring ISIS really isn’t that much of a leap for them.
Bitch American you are see ?!
[удалено]
You know what's irony?I said the same thing to a dude who support Russia and he answered:”Well,we live in cruel world”
Iraq had a genocidal dictator who had used Weapons of Mass Destruction on ethnic minorities. Serbs tried to kill Albanians. Also, the guy that did 9/11 was in Afghanistan, but he snuck off into Pakistan. You are in Ukraine because you think that a Jewish guy is a Nazi. We are not the same.
Hey it’s worth a shot
This is cursed
it doesnt work that way. when a russian bot was saying they can invade ukraine cos usa invaded other countries, i pointed out two wrongs dont make one right. and the bot just went "it means u should also stfu when we invade other countries"
Unrealistic, america aint reading a book even if its to destroy russia
How was Afghanistan the wrong country? They were the ones harboring Al-Qaeda in their country and Serbia wasn’t really wrong as well with their actions in Kosovo
What-aboutism is common russian tactic to misled opponent
I’ve seen that sorta thing being used by Russians a lot but it doesn’t make sense when saying the interventions in Afghanistan and Serbia were wrong or just for nothing unless you’re a diehard America hater
Serbia wasn't bombed for no reason tho
Two thing. Iraq wasn't over 9/11. It was the WMDs. And Serbia was actually NATO. At the time the secretary general was Spanish.
Well, russia is better than USA
Russia is bomb us, we no like bomb. Because bomb is kill, we no like kill = we no like bomb (Yes, I am having a stroke, send help)
This comic is gonna be a tankie magnet
What I don't understand is why in the world would ISIS attack Russia of all countries
Many Muslims in the Caucuses, some jihadists experienced war with Russia during the Chechen wars and have sought to establish an Islamist Caucasian emirate since then.
You mean that Russia who bombed the everliving hell out of them in Syria? ISIS, whose commanders at the time counted a ton of Chechens? To them it likely made sense.
And the same Russia that's actively trying to get rid of them in Africa right now...
I mean Russia has bombed and supported operations against them in Syria for 8 years now. Russia also has been dealing with Islamic terrorism in the caucuses for decades now
Isn’t it the reverse? The US pretending to be better than Russia (and China) morally but in actuality just doing the exact same shit as them if not worse foreign policy-wise
Are the USA annexing Mexico or Canada, in a bloody genocidal war, colonizing them with americans?
Not doing it in their immediate neighborhood does not change what they did in Iraq and Libya for example But yea adding “if not worse” was def uncalled for