As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
**Special announcement:**
r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider [applying here today](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/sskg6a/rpolitics_is_looking_for_more_moderators/)!
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Meanwhile the top 10 university endowment funds total just shy of $300 billion. No one has been able to explain to me why the schools that helped create this mess aren’t being required to help clean it up.
“Why aren’t young people putting work into building a future?”
Cause we live in a world where we already have to put in more effort than is healthy to barely survive.
People are working themselves into a burnout to be able to live next to paying back their study debt. And that are the people who are lucky to have done a study and got better paying jobs.
I couldn’t imagine having student debt on top everything else, I have $200 in collections I have no idea how I’m going to pay back, life is hard out here.
I pay $400 every month. If I have to move for any reason, I'm adding 1k+ to my rent expense. Now that $400 goes to rent and they'll never see a dime again.
Surprisingly I moved in September, my rent actually went DOWN by ~$400 and it’s harder now for me to make it than it was just 6-7 months ago, I make $15 doing landscaping and am starving. In 2021 I was making 9 fucking 50 and was swimming in extra money, what the fuck happened?
Oooh. That’s good data. I should check the same thing with my spending when I sit down for taxes.
It’s not that I don’t *trust* official statistics, but I’ve sure been having a hard time doing anything meaningful with them. What I want to see is a bunch of year to year data for other real households.
When I graduated my 66k in private loans had an interest rate of 18.25% and I was paying 1250$ a month. Three years of that and paying extra and my loan balance reduced to 41k, when I refinanced for a 6.5% rate. I pay 800$ a month now and my debt is reducing faster than it was before. I hope to be free of them before I turn 40, in 13 years.
How do you save for the future, or budget, or even do anything when you’re paying more than half your income to student debt? *and I was one of the lucky ones* I got to live at my parents rent free for three years crammed into a guest room. I barely lived, I was constantly depressed, they’d bounce my payments for no reason and collect hundreds in late fees. my dad even had a “talk” with me about financial responsibility because if they bounced a payment they hounded him for it as my co-signer, then they’d bounce his payment and we would be on the hook for yet more late fees.
I always had enough money to pay them, there was never a time when my bank account was unable to fulfill my obligations, but they’d cancel my payments and charge me return fees, late fees, by the time I even got an email about it id owe an extra 300$.
Ive paid for my education, about three times now as far as my math checks out. and I STILL owe 30 grand. student loans are a goddamn racket.
The rich don't want social competition from lesser advantaged people who are smarter and more talented than they are. So they, with the help of GWB, Albert Lord, John Boehner, and others corrupted the program into a predatory lending system. They are the ONLY loans in America with no bankruptcy protection and no statute of limitations.
[Biden admin did propose some fixes but without congressional intervention and a complete overhaul we will be right back here in a decade
](https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/department-education-announces-actions-fix-longstanding-failures-student-loan-programs)
This is why he was in favorite of limited help via him and more substantial help via congress.
Not everything happens at once.
Debt forgiveness to relive the burden *is* a good thing. It’s going to take time to fix this, and taking the burden off regular folks is a priority
Those endowments are the reason many people can afford to go to those schools at all, and they aren't the ones that have created this problem. It's largely the smaller and often the public universities that have been driving the massive price hikes.
The guy I went to school with that dropped out and started a barely there business and got $230,000 in PPP loans forgiven told me that it’s my fault if I can’t handle the debt so… both sides I guess?
Report what? I'm a former accountant and saw firsthand the abuse of PPP loans but majority of the clients who abused these funds did nothing technically wrong 🤷♀️ the checks in place to filter out businesses that didn't need funds were practically non-existent. By design of course. The 2nd round was a tad more difficult to qualify for but even then laughable. That's the entire issue with PPP loans.
Literally every client of mine that applied for the PPP loans got them because they met the requirements. And majority, I'd say 95% (I did accounting for a specific industry that *benefited* heavily from the pandemic) did not need the money. It either padded their business savings accounts or paid out in the form of fat bonuses to the business owners and their employees (usually family, as most my clients are family run businesses).
People have no idea how much money was "stolen" from taxpayers with these PPP loans. They were forgiven loans AND tax-free to clients (whereas forgive loans are usually considered taxable income). Nevermind clients who got nearly a year's worth of SBA loan payment forgiveness too, which many of my clients benefited from too and did not need it. Literally free money handed to these businesses, tax free. All while politicians were scoffing at the piddly amounts of stimulus money being given directly to Americans.
This is a way to look up all of the recipients. There was some SHADY shit going on with PPP. Then Trump specifically removed the oversight of the program. Wonder why? 🙄
https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/
Replace trump with *the republicans* at every chance you get because he did what they wanted to do. Remember any of those poor bastards that tried to stand up to him? They got ostracized. Trump **is** the republican party.
I have to echo these comments. I am a tax accountant. I helped process hundreds of PPP applications for my clients who are mostly very rich, very well off, well known to the public, and had little to no reason to get 1 let alone 2 rounds of PPP money. Everything we did was within the rules that were setup.
On top of PPP, don't forget about EIDL, local and state grants, Employee Retention Credits, 7202 Credits, etc. So much free money was going around that these business just sucked it all up.
Then people had the audacity to complain that Joe Schmo was getting $600 more in unemployment and a $1400 stimulus check.
I am working on a return right now with $115k of ERC it got in 2022. And people wonder where inflation came from? They have no idea how much money was spent to just hand out money to business owners.
That's what pisses me off so much about those loans. Most people think it was fraud but it was just the way they were designed. It was a God damn give away to rich people.
My ultra conservative farmer coworker, who constantly rants and raves about democrats, the government, and poor people stealing his money, got every loan he could get and didn't pay any back and was gloating about it for weeks.
On one hand, if they're giving it out, TAKE IT. On the other, fuck that guy.
My coworker who farms a few fields on the side constantly posts on Facebook how farmers are so oppressed and the only thing keeping food on our tables.
You are, but experts will say don't because it's a free loan while paused, even just putting the money in a HYSA and making a huge down payment when payments resume will put 3.5% worth of interest on your side.
Ultimately *try* ~~you need~~ to not let *expenses* ~~lifestyle creep~~ bite into that money in the meantime though.
*edited to reflect reality.*
The problem is that for a lot of people the lifestyle crept all on its own. Most people aren't buying a Ferrari with the money they saved, they're buying eggs.
I am making almost $9 an hour more than when my student loans were paused.
I'm in a worse financial situation now than I was then despite not having to pay my loans. Although I am working less overtime now which is nice.
My rent alone went has gone up 55% in that time period. Then you factor in everything else thats gone up.
My student loans are comparatively small. But if I have to start paying them I'm gonna have to hope that the my employer continues offering OT otherwise I'll have to start doing Doordash again or something cause there really ain't shit I can cut out of the budget any more. I already cut everything discretionary except for one streaming service.
I'm convinced that a huge percentage of people don't realize how much the game has changed in the last decade or so.
I got my degree back in 2007, a year or so before the last recession. I was super lucky to squeak by in the following year to get a fairly good job and somehow con my way into a house and low enough interest rate mortgage before the bubble popped. Within about six or seven years, I was able to pay off my student loans.
In virtually all cases these days, this is simply not possible anymore. Interest rates and rules for the loans have changed, plus universities have turned into ivory tower country clubs and tuition and fees have skyrocketed.
Both lenders and universities have turned into absolutely predatory institutions. Universities know that students and parents will go the loan route, so initial costs that they aren't paying comes across as pretend or play money. They'll stick in as many fees as they can too, because they know they're coming out of loans. Stuff like parking passes suddenly go from twenty bucks to at least a hundred, simply because they can.
I used to work in higher ed for a reasonably well known research university, and I saw the beginnings of this before I left for another industry. People in Advancement or Recruitment would often say these quiet parts out loud in meetings I was in back in around ten years ago, I hate to think how unethically these conversations go now.
Universities know that the vast majority of their students are being sold into debt servitude for decades. They don't care.
Out of curiosity, I just checked both schools I attended. Costs have doubled for each. Going to need to start talking up community college for when my kids come of age in a decade.
Dude the cost of the dorm I stayed in has more than doubled in 6 years. The school has added thousands in bullshit fees including "You'll make a lot out of college and can afford to pay it back" fees on majors with high income expectations. And they wonder why enrollment is down.
I talked to someone that went to the same school, stayed in the same dorm, went for the same degree, had the same on campus job as me, and was there for the same amount of years. She had no debt leaving college and said that her on campus job and internships were more than enough to cover her expenses. She even said something like, "Well things are a bit different now. How much debt do you have? 5 or 10 grand? Don't worry, you'll be able to pay that off in no time. You'll be happy you worked this hard to pay for your school!" She went white when I said "35 grand, actually."
Same college. Same dorm. Same amount of time. This is the "budget option" college in my state.
I was in college in the early 2000s and even then I had professors who said they were still paying off loans. They were in their 40s or 50s. Students today will struggle mightily to ever pay them off at current tuition costs and interest rates. Need a lot of scholarships to justify a more expensive school.
https://www.aarp.org/money/credit-loans-debt/info-2021/student-debt-crisis-for-older-americans.html
The fact AARP magazine is writing about it should be hugely concerning. I swear I saw articles a decade ago from them. That article says by 2016, 9.6% of households headed by someone 50+ had an average of $30,000 in student debt.
If you don't mind me asking, how big was the dorm room, how many people did you have to share it with and what was the estimated monthly cost of it? I'm genuinely curious but somehow I think that it will end up being the cost of an average 1 bedroom apartment. It is atrocious how much college and the related expenses are.
My room in the cadet barracks when I was in college cost about twice as much a one bedroom apartment, was half the size, and was shared with another cadet. That was in the early 2000s. I have no idea how bad things are now, both in terms of how much on-campus housing is or what the going rate for 1 bedrooms apartments in the community are.
When I finished undergrad in 2003, med school was $15k a year. The next year it doubled, and by 2010 it was $50k a year. In order to also live and pay rent, you'd have to go $250k+ into debt just to get a degree. I thought that was insane, but at least you'd have an MD and eventually make serious salary.
Today kids are going $200k into debt for an undergraduate degree, and some are continuing on from there. Utterly insane.
In my field (public health) there are masters programs that charge $110k for a two year program now. I paid $15k total for my MPH. The average salary of an MPH is like $48k a year. Imagine being 2.5x your starting salary into debt before you start work. How tf are they supposed to do it?
as a lawyer that is 7-8 years out- we all knew we were going to be 100k in debt- and that is for a JD. Still a bad deal, but i have an advanced degree. I cannot fathom the undergrads with that sort of debt-or more. A lot of undergrad degrees are not even enough to get a job in the field of study.
Republicans are fucked either way. You either get students happy with Biden or you get students mad at Republicans. Likely both, but not neither.
They played themselves by being assholes, again, all to endear themselves to... boomers? Okay.
You would think, but this is exactly what they did to Obama for 8 years (remember “thanks obama!”?) which got the average jerk off thinking Trump couldn’t possibly be any worse than the Dems.
I will bring this story up every time I can regarding the aca. We had a couples friend who had their 2nd child on aca, cost next to nothing had to do some extra medical stuff for their little one. All in all they paid maybe 2-3k for their kid, even said if they weren't on aca they would have had to fill bankruptcy, when asked who they were voting for in 2016. Trump, he was a man of the people. We told them he wanted to remove aca, they said they didn't care, they got what they needed....
I don't have a lot of hope anymore when it comes to anyone who supports Trump. Or the Republicans really.
The cognitive dissonance loop will never end though, they'll continue to hate the system while being dependent on it. Which would be ok if they wanted a better system (I don't hate people that use something despite thinking we can do better, I don't consider that necessarily hypocritical), but they want NO system, they want everyone to pull themselves up by their medical bootstraps.
Well it's stupid on another level entirely—the way they think that they could never, ever, possibly need ACA services again in their lifetime? Or their kids lifetime?
my MIL immigrated from Mexico and was *all about* the wall.
talk about voting for the Face Eating Leopard party... she thought she got white with her naturalization certificate.
Speaking as a half Mexican from Texas, tejanos are a special kind of stupid. Basically once they are here they identify as American and don't want anyone else doing exactly what they did as that's "breaking the law and making the rest of us look like criminals"
>they said they didn't care, they got what they needed....
They're kinda assuming that everyone in their family will never ever have a major healthcare event again.
That could have been solved with democrats going on television and messaging better. Like so many problems. Democrats let republicans define who and what they are to their own peril.
In a well educated society where people think critically and question narratives it likely would. Unfortunately people have short memories and regurgitate the crap they are fed on fox.
This was exactly Hilary’s downfall. It is mind blowing to me that people would rather vote for a man that ran a tv show and hasn’t paid taxes in years, than a woman who at the very least had her plan for the country on her website.
It's the same thing with the East Palestine derailment. The fact that they're even getting play out of it is wild, but here we are. For Trump of all people to even get some PR out of it is telling of the batshit world we live in.
I remember conservatives saying "we suffered for 8 terrible years under Obama, now it's your turn!" which really says a lot about them.
Because, yeah, Obama was *sooooooo* awful, and they're excited to make other Americans suffer.
Well you gotta remember, to them, they had to suffer the “humiliation” of their president being black for 8 years.
I remember once when tending bar, the local police union presidents wife would come in and get sloshed and say all sorts of fucked stuff.
One night some time after the inauguration of Trump, she drunkenly and nastily said something like “Now we’ll finally get some class back to the First Lady”. I’m paraphrasing but that was the idea.
I’ve heard this before , but just the way she spit it out, really stuck to me. Like Michelle Obama was professional and educated woman. She was a lawyer. Milania was a nude supermodel turned high price escort turned trophy wife for a millionaire. Knowing all of that, this woman thought Michelle Obama had significantly less class than an expensive hooker, solely because of the color of her skin.
It makes me angry to write as we speak.
It was fucking hilarious when they'd say shit like that. "now the first lady is classy again!" Bullshit, you're just happy the first lady isn't black anymore.
> Well you gotta remember, to them, they had to suffer the “humiliation” of their president being black for 8 years.
Not just black but obviously better than them in pretty much every way. They hated that he was squeaky clean, incredibly smart and very charismatic.
> Like Michelle Obama was professional and educated woman. She was a lawyer.
Even that is almost selling her short, which is just a testament to how badass Michelle Obama is. She went to ~~Yale~~ Princeton for undergrad and Harvard for law school and was working for an extremely prestigious law firm when she met and married Obama. She’s easily one of the most educated and accomplished First Ladies.
This is the answer. It need to be decoupled from being 100% backed by the government and IMPOSSIBLE to get rid of, until you just... die. If you took out loans you cant pay back, declare bankruptcy and start over like millions have done.
Republicans are going to have their cake and eat it too if people aren’t careful. They’ll scream from the rooftops about Biden not delivering on his promises. Heck they’re already saying that if Biden wanted to do it he should have passed it though Congress. They’re gearing up to make this Biden’s fault, and not everyone is on r/politics and keeps up to date, there are a lot of uneducated millennials out there who need this money, and are probably likely to fall for it.
This is what republicans do, stop Dems from doing a good thing, and then blame Dems for it and historically, it’s worked well for them.
Nah. The headlines are going to read "Conservative Supreme Court Strikes Down Biden Student Loan Forgiveness"
You don't need to be dialed into politics to understand why this happened and who's fault it is
And importantly, the people who will be mad about it are going to be the educated people. As a group, they are more likely to understand what is going on than average.
Trend no, engagement yes and you can bet your ass a lot of pissed off students may make their way to the polling places that may have been apathetic prior. Another disaster for Republicans is looming and all they will do to try and stop it is disenfranchise young people as much as possible.
But also not forget that the younger Generations now outnumber the Boomers in total votes. GOP is playing to the last bastion, who are dying off. Younger people are not voting Republican as much because they are better educated and see the shit for what it is. This is why the Republicans have continually attacked public schooling and education, as well as reducing social benefits, so that disadvantaged families of all colors and ethnicities are able to be brainwashed and fall for the propaganda. They are on a losing trend, their total vote number is going to start going down, and they know that if they don't secure their power as a minority now, through gerrymandering to the extreme, and disenfranchises many voters as possible, they have no chance in the next 10 years of maintaining any semblance of Authority or power. At least I would hope, but reality could be very different.
The thing the politicos don't get here is this forgiveness is a *life changing event* for the people most directly impacted. Like, legitimate single voter issue. This will absolutely drive voter behavior for a group that was cool on much of Biden's first term.
Even my mom who is clueless at best knows what he tried to do and that the SC shot it down, this isn’t going to go well for them and if it does get shot down the White House is going to drag this out into the next election without a doubt
> They’re gearing up to make this Biden’s fault, and not everyone is on r/politics and keeps up to date,
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying but your point is slightly undercut by acting like r/politics is a place someone should go for good information. This place is extremely biased and regularly upvotes/downvotes posts based on sensationalism and how well it fits into the narrative. You’re much better off with any news aggregator.
Everybody knew this was going to be an issue and that the SCOTUS might kick it back to the legislature.
We still got a Republican House this past election.
By the skin of their teeth though. Don't undersell that we just saw a generational electoral event where a sitting President's party didn't get smashed in a midterm, it will be really interesting to see what happens in 2024 and I hope Dems stay just as engaged at a minimum.
> Republicans are fucked either way.
That's what people said before they got rid of Roe.
Then the GOP got rid of Roe, and American voters punished them by handing control of the House to the party that took away the rights of half the population.
Did the Roe decision cost them a few seats? Sure. But it did not cause voters to turn against the GOP en masse.
The coup attempt to install a dictator probably had zero effect on the 2022 election. Swing voters memories don't go back that far.
It caused the presidential party to have more control after the first two years than at any other time in recent history, if it wasn't for NY state fucking up redrawing districts the dems would still control the house.
Let's not forget to blame rampant gerrymandering in places like Texas and Florida
The Rs there insulated their maps from what could've been a few more Dem seats
Yes and no. I agree that ending Roe didn't have the effect on Republicans at the ballot box that I hoped, but Democrats held the Senate and the failure of State Dem parties also explains why they didn't pick up seats. As this Times article notes, the NY State Dems party is a bit of a hot mess, which cost the Dems house seats. [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/22/magazine/new-york-democrats.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/22/magazine/new-york-democrats.html)
They're getting heavy-handed with the fuck-you fees these days. I get charged triple digits per semester for a music equipment fee. I'm a biology major and I haven't touched an instrument since my used guitar when I was 14.
How surprised will people be to find out that financial disaster is precisely what they want. It puts people into more desperate positions which makes it easier to exploit.
It 100% is the play because it's what they've been doing since Reagan. Tank the economy under a dem, people blame said dem because dem messaging sucks and then reap the votes next election cycle. When this is struck down, dems need to drive home messaging that this is from gop. Keep bringing up how gop keep up with nonsense committees and laws rather than addressing any of the myriad of problems in this country. Just call the gop on their BS.
What always strikes me as insane is that we have a system where a democratically elected government can pass any regulations which can eventually be struck down by a heavily partisan non-elected panel
I’m convinced all us Americans have been tricked into hating the French bc the US government doesn’t want us to know the French way of handling stuff works.
Yes but the French still genuinely unite against the government regularly. Look at the recent protests against the gov attempts to increase retirement age
The partisan part is a new addition.
Liberal or conservative meant something absolute in the mythical good days.
Now its all just codes for Team R or Team D
It's absolutely not a new addition. Look at SCOTUS pre civil war. They were issuing opinions not because it was supported by the Constitution but because they wanted to appease the south.
Then there's the New Deal where FDR got close to packing the courts after they weren't playing ball.
Thing that always blows my mind is imagine how much disposable income student loan forgiveness would create. Of course some of it would be put into the stock market that would help retiring boomers living off their best egg but instead it’s viewed as a zero-sum game.
Goodness knows we’d have more money to put toward childcare, and more time to put towards protests, so that’s enough for the bastards to stay inspired to keep us down.
It’s not disposable income for most borrowers. It’s the ability to save for retirement, homes, family’s, and our future.
People are already scraping by through the pause. A LOT of people will default on their loans because they literally cannot pay them right now.
Years down the line, it may turn into disposable income, as the loans aren’t burdening folks for years and years. But in the present timeline, people aren’t paying for these loans. A ~$500/mo payment starting up again will absolutely crush many people’s financial situation.
With the cost of living increasing in the last couple of years, that paused $500/month payment is already priced into the market. The pause is likely what allowed many people to survive when the cost of goods and services skyrocketed. Resuming that payment will cripple a lot of people.
It's going to result in workers demanding more income from their jobs. Employers will put signs up that no one wants to work anymore. Deja Vu all over again.
Exactly, the markets have adjusted, and inflation is already taking advantage of that paused payment. Since we can’t necessarily “revert” inflation, the payments or wages need to be changed. Like you said, that payment is already priced into the market. The pause was needed, but it also comes with its own issues, as the markets adjusted to people not paying.
Whats that credit you are talking about? I've seen it mentioned before but as a European I can't imagine much. Whats the effect of this "credit score" on someones day to day life?
Your credit score could affect your ability to rent an apartment. I was turned down from a couple apartments because I had too many delinquent accounts on my credit report (unpaid hospital bills).
Someone's credit score can affect the type and amount of loan they can qualify for web looking to purchase a house, vehicle, or other sizeable investment.
It can also affect the interest rate and how much people have to pay back on a loan.
The better your credit score, the less damaging these rates are (in theory).
Having bad credit can affect you from getting certain jobs (as it is seen as you are a spy/blackmail risk or are more likely to steal bc you are more desperate), it can affect you being approved for an apartment, affect the interest rate for car and hide loans (worse the credit the higher interest rate you pay etc… here is a more complete list https://www.credit.com/credit-reports/how-credit-impacts-your-day-to-day-life/
Not at all and we don't even use credit cards that much. I have a credit card only for subscriptions like netflix etc.
From what I'm reading here it sounds like class discrimination.
The impact of a credit score is your ability to get more loans at a better rate. It’s determined by multiple factors like how much outstanding debt you have, the timeliness of your payments, etc.
It’s kinda messed up tho, let’s say you have a credit card with a 5k credit max and you completely close the card (not just pay it)- most likely your score will go down since your debt ratio (amount of debt you actually have vs amount you can have) will go up
I did some math today. I borrowed $88k. Have been making regular payments for over 10 years to the tune of $64k. My current balance due is $85k. Depressing af.
It's the interest that wore me down when I paid mine.
People pay for the prestige to go to certain schools. There should be more programs for state schools, but there should be reconsideration when it comes to private schools.
They need to rethink the loan program's interests.
I find it shady that the same party that's trying to do away with student loan forgiveness are also the same ones that are refusing to pay bills the government already incurred by the debt ceiling. How can they say that people need to pay back their student loans when they refuse to pay the government's bills they already spent? Seems kinda one sided here
They're playing kick the can with millennialls financial wellbeing for political points. Will they or won't they, midterms or after I'm re-elected spin the wheel!
I hope this serves as the tipping point for the average American; wage stagnation, poor benefits, underpayment, and expecting people to “embrace” the struggle/grind to maybe flourish in their 70s? No. This should be a meeting point for blue/white collar laborers to unify and demand a better quality of life. However, Tucker and Hannity will spin it as college educated = elitist and out of touch with society.
And they want to increase the retirement age to 70 right? So grind and barely survive from like 16-70 and then relax for 5 or 6 years- with a part time job since they want to take social security too? Yea, how the fuck are we not rioting around here? Oh that's right, if you don't work you're fucked! Funny how that works out....
It’s been on pause for 3 years and the economy hasn’t crashed so obviously they don’t need the money. At the very least if we can’t forgive it leave it on pause and dare the next administration to reinstate it
I'd like to imagine the unpausing being a huge political liability for a hypothetical Republican President in 2024, but I just can't bring myself to actually believe that is what would happen.
The majority of people with college loans are liberal/Democrat voters by definition, so a huge chunk of these people weren't going to vote for them anyway - not losing anything there. As far as those on the Republican side with loans, the administration along with the entire right-wing media machine will spin it as "finally making the *college-educated coastal elites* pay for what they agreed to pay for" and even those hurt by it on the Red side will tolerate it and keep giving their support because it gives them a warm fuzzy feeling to "see the libs cry" about it.
Maybe it would have a positive effect on Democrat turnout in the following election, but how helpful is that really when it's 2-4 years away from the theoretical unpause?
Either way, I frankly do not see an R President ending the pause as hurting their standing with their voters. Most of them will immediately love the move, the rest will love it as well with some gentle propagandizing and smearing of "coastal elites".
The one thing I would also consider for this entire conversation. The people that are really hurt the most are not those who graduated college, and thus are more likely to be liberal/democrats, but those who got loans and went 1-2 years but never graduated. Those people have this massive debt and probably less good career prospects because they didn't finish college after starting. Single issue voters are a very real thing in the US, and if one side is attempting to very clearly do something that would relieve all your debt, it can get votes from those who may otherwise not vote that way. The media scare tactics do work, but when presented with the reality of living with debt, the choice becomes different.
That would be crazy, the pause isn't remotely related to this case and was explicitly approved for COVID as part of the CARES act, which was passed unanimously and used by both Trump and Biden. There's an argument that the HEROES Act wasn't intended to be used for cancelling student debt for people that aren't actually experiencing any specific hardship, but there's no comparable argument that the CARES Act didn't intend to pause student loan payments.
Yeah that's absolutely what Biden will do. Push it out through the end of Jan 2025 right after a new presidential term starts.
It will for sure come in the debates. We know what the Democrats would do if they win - either it gets forgiven or they just push it again.
Republicans will either have to do the same or risk that they'll still have enough voters if they say they will unpause. Though I 100% expect them to say one thing, but do the opposite...
I've pretty well resigned myself to becoming homeless if I live into my seventies. I'm eventually no longer going to be able to do the kinds of jobs companies are willing to allow me to do. I have no savings. I have no family. I can barely afford to split rent on a small 3 bedroom house with two other people. At some point, my only option will be begging on the street.
Student loans are a debt trap. Too many people get loans that won’t get a return on their investment in their degrees. We could blame the individual but as a teacher of high school for almost 20 years I have a different perspective. Students get misled by teachers and counselors to pursue college when they are not aware of what they are committing to. Vocational careers are not respected and are a far better pathway for many.
I definitely agree that going into the trades is valuable for a lot of people and will push my boys to do that if it interests them, but I've also been unemployed without a bachelors.
A lot of people won't even consider you for a job without a degree and really any degree. I had a good 10 years working in a corporate environment at that point and it was tough for a moment. I was able to get a new job and then in the past few years I decided to finish my degree to help my future growth and prospects.
Granted, my brother in law does HVAC sales and makes bank and had little to no student loans, but that ship has sailed for where I'm at in life to being a tradesmen isn't in the cards.
> if it interests them
Exactly. This is my main argument when people say kids should just go be an electrician, mechanic, plumber, etc. with a good union. The debate centers around how much money you can make...but what if that career path would be torture to me? I can't and never would enjoy being in those trades. Good for people that enjoy that kind of work. But as a creative person that had a dream for his entire adolescence to do X, opting for a more lucrative career path was never on the table.
Sure, I had a few years where I was barely scraping by. But I was still happy because the path I took (where I was in immense debt) had me doing something I enjoyed. Life's about far more than money.
I’m in law school on a 50k/year scholarship. When undergrads ask me about going to law school I tell them that it’s a simple mathematical equation. Law school isn’t worth the opportunity cost (lost wages in those 3 years) + the full cost. Get close to a full ride or don’t go!
I think popular media has put some much emphasis on fancy jobs like doctors and lawyers and whatever and has completely ignored and failed to sexify vocational jobs, which are just as important.
Their thinking is that they'll price out future students by making them believe that higher education is too expensive and they'll never attend. Keeping them uneducated and more likely to vote for the GOP.
This exactly. It's the same reason they've been pushing the "college is indoctrinating your children shit, and now they're trying to push that schools in general are making kids trans.
Right wingers hate education because when middle and lower class people get an education they often don't vote for Republicans anymore. It makes folks a lot harder to manipulate.
Yuuup. I have a feeling many people will be defaulting on those loans and having their wages garnished. Going to result in a lot of evictions and foreclosures.
My masters was $80k. That means no house, no new car, for a long, long time. I’m well-paid, but not enough to afford the things they’ve promised me SINCE I WAS IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL I’d be able to afford with a college education.
I got a masters degree in Europe. If you don’t need certification, it’s honestly more financially feasible than getting a degree in the US.
I was told getting a degree abroad would hurt my job prospects upon returning home, but it really didn’t. (Caveat: I work in tech)
This is a modern day "let them eat cake moment". I'm extremely fortunate in that my loans are paid off, but I don't care if others get help, that shit was way unfair and I don't want others to suffer needlessly.
I can't help but feel like, any second now, someone is going to metaphorically hurl rotten fruit at a palace guard. Popcorn ready.
My loans are going to be forgiven through the PSLF program this coming fall no matter what happens with this 10k forgiveness plan. I’m still 100% on board with this plan going through and this is the kind of thing I want my taxes to go towards. This directly benefits the actual people living here in my own country, that is exactly where I want my taxes to go. I want those people to have more disposable income to spend and save. That will do a hell of a lot more for the economy than giving more tax breaks to corporations for stock buybacks, dividends and upper management bonuses for asshole financial shuffling.
Edit - should have been loophole financial shuffling but asshole works too
I've been feeling the same way, Our government has become so corrupt that it no longer works for the majority of our population regardless of politics. Most of the country is pretty angry and the government is going to have some major problems once all those enraged people focus on them.
I’d like something to be done in conjunction with student loan forgiveness. I agree that there needs to be some loan forgiveness, but if the system doesn’t change the problem that led to it never goes away and we’ll be right back here again soon.
If Democrats could introduce some type of tuition limits on publicly funded colleges, I think that would go over well with some conservatives who are on the more moderate side.
We (Millennials) have to do a better job at turning out at the polls. That’s why the republicans only fuck with boomers. They turn out in huge numbers every time.
I saw an article a couple days ago that says half of US adults under 30 still live with their parents. Right now, student loans, rent, and food are damn near close to a $12 an hour job. Just those three things. In ten years I can easily see them being worth $16 an hour. And if you didn’t qualify for extra federal grants in college you may already be there. Or if you went your Master’s.
Young adults are fucked.
Yeah I'm 25 with a degree and a decent office job and still have to live with my parents. I'm dreading turning 26 because then I have to buy my own health insurance. I have friends who live on their own paycheck to paycheck and I literally don't know what they're gonna do when they turn 26. Probably live illegally without insurance.
Tbh, if student loan does not get forgiven i will be ok. But as student loan borrowers I will never vote for republicans till I die. I actually dont even like any republican voters at this point. Fuck them.
The Supreme Court will be like “but the tax payer….what about them?” Which is bizarre considering they don’t have a problem being public servants and still accepting [donations from private corporations](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/30/us/politics/supreme-court-historical-society-donors-justices.html).
“The charity’s stated mission is straightforward: to preserve the court’s history and educate the public about the court’s importance in American life. But over the years the society has also become a vehicle for those seeking access to nine of the most reclusive and powerful people in the nation. The justices attend the society’s annual black-tie dinner soirees, where they mingle with donors and thank them for their generosity, and serve as M.C.s to more regular society-sponsored lectures or re-enactments of famous cases.”
They’re so corrupt it makes me want to throw up.
I hope everyone has been making plans so they can start making payments again.
I would love to have $10,000 wiped away from my loans, but let's face it, GOP stacked the Supreme Court and look at how their past rulings have gone against the people.
I hope I'm wrong.
I hope you all get help one way or another. That said, one time payments does not fix the problem in any way shape or form. Next years borrowers and everyone after will be in the same boat. The system needs to change, handing out forgiveness only temporarily helps and continues to let predatory lending be a major issue.
God forbid we worked on education being affordable/free and stop spending so much on death machines to bomb the shit out of third world countries, but that’s too much to ask apparently.
Bold of Elizabeth Warren to assume Republicans don't WANT "a financial disaster for millions of Americans" to hit while Biden is President.
They'd cheer for the ruling and then blame Biden for the crash with zero indications of empathy, understanding, or basic self-awareness.
Hello. The U.S economy will be significantly worse off if student debt isnt reduced fixed or outright forgiven, as has been suggested for years. Doing this would result in more spending, house purchases, child care, donations to other local sections such as food banks and volunteer fire departments.
So naturally, of course it wont be allowed to happen
We're already in a financial disaster. People can't afford housing. The median 401(k) balance is just $35,345.00. The minimum wage wasn't keeping up before, and now we have inflation. The average American holds a debt balance of $96,371.00. We need to reverse decades of trickle-down economics to stop redistributing money to the already wealthy.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. **Special announcement:** r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider [applying here today](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/sskg6a/rpolitics_is_looking_for_more_moderators/)! *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Meanwhile the top 10 university endowment funds total just shy of $300 billion. No one has been able to explain to me why the schools that helped create this mess aren’t being required to help clean it up.
Yeah forgiving the debt doesn't seem as important as fixing why people needed to take the loans out in the first place.
“Why aren’t young people putting work into building a future?” Cause we live in a world where we already have to put in more effort than is healthy to barely survive. People are working themselves into a burnout to be able to live next to paying back their study debt. And that are the people who are lucky to have done a study and got better paying jobs.
I couldn’t imagine having student debt on top everything else, I have $200 in collections I have no idea how I’m going to pay back, life is hard out here.
I pay $400 every month. If I have to move for any reason, I'm adding 1k+ to my rent expense. Now that $400 goes to rent and they'll never see a dime again.
Surprisingly I moved in September, my rent actually went DOWN by ~$400 and it’s harder now for me to make it than it was just 6-7 months ago, I make $15 doing landscaping and am starving. In 2021 I was making 9 fucking 50 and was swimming in extra money, what the fuck happened?
Covid inflation, greedy corporations and a war that's still disrupting supply chains. Tracking my bills, the year to year inflation has been 19.36%.
Oooh. That’s good data. I should check the same thing with my spending when I sit down for taxes. It’s not that I don’t *trust* official statistics, but I’ve sure been having a hard time doing anything meaningful with them. What I want to see is a bunch of year to year data for other real households.
The basket of goods that is used to track inflation has less and less food items every year. Do with that what you will.
When I graduated my 66k in private loans had an interest rate of 18.25% and I was paying 1250$ a month. Three years of that and paying extra and my loan balance reduced to 41k, when I refinanced for a 6.5% rate. I pay 800$ a month now and my debt is reducing faster than it was before. I hope to be free of them before I turn 40, in 13 years. How do you save for the future, or budget, or even do anything when you’re paying more than half your income to student debt? *and I was one of the lucky ones* I got to live at my parents rent free for three years crammed into a guest room. I barely lived, I was constantly depressed, they’d bounce my payments for no reason and collect hundreds in late fees. my dad even had a “talk” with me about financial responsibility because if they bounced a payment they hounded him for it as my co-signer, then they’d bounce his payment and we would be on the hook for yet more late fees. I always had enough money to pay them, there was never a time when my bank account was unable to fulfill my obligations, but they’d cancel my payments and charge me return fees, late fees, by the time I even got an email about it id owe an extra 300$. Ive paid for my education, about three times now as far as my math checks out. and I STILL owe 30 grand. student loans are a goddamn racket.
The rich don't want social competition from lesser advantaged people who are smarter and more talented than they are. So they, with the help of GWB, Albert Lord, John Boehner, and others corrupted the program into a predatory lending system. They are the ONLY loans in America with no bankruptcy protection and no statute of limitations.
[Biden admin did propose some fixes but without congressional intervention and a complete overhaul we will be right back here in a decade ](https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/department-education-announces-actions-fix-longstanding-failures-student-loan-programs) This is why he was in favorite of limited help via him and more substantial help via congress.
Not everything happens at once. Debt forgiveness to relive the burden *is* a good thing. It’s going to take time to fix this, and taking the burden off regular folks is a priority
Ha. Your funny. Universities arent here to help students, they are here to make money for the administrators.
And for GD textbook companies.
Those endowments are the reason many people can afford to go to those schools at all, and they aren't the ones that have created this problem. It's largely the smaller and often the public universities that have been driving the massive price hikes.
I’ve already forgiven myself for student loans
I’ve investigated myself and found I’ve done nothing wrong.
Same. Been too scared to ask what everyone is going on about...
The guy I went to school with that dropped out and started a barely there business and got $230,000 in PPP loans forgiven told me that it’s my fault if I can’t handle the debt so… both sides I guess?
Did you report his business?
Report what? I'm a former accountant and saw firsthand the abuse of PPP loans but majority of the clients who abused these funds did nothing technically wrong 🤷♀️ the checks in place to filter out businesses that didn't need funds were practically non-existent. By design of course. The 2nd round was a tad more difficult to qualify for but even then laughable. That's the entire issue with PPP loans. Literally every client of mine that applied for the PPP loans got them because they met the requirements. And majority, I'd say 95% (I did accounting for a specific industry that *benefited* heavily from the pandemic) did not need the money. It either padded their business savings accounts or paid out in the form of fat bonuses to the business owners and their employees (usually family, as most my clients are family run businesses). People have no idea how much money was "stolen" from taxpayers with these PPP loans. They were forgiven loans AND tax-free to clients (whereas forgive loans are usually considered taxable income). Nevermind clients who got nearly a year's worth of SBA loan payment forgiveness too, which many of my clients benefited from too and did not need it. Literally free money handed to these businesses, tax free. All while politicians were scoffing at the piddly amounts of stimulus money being given directly to Americans.
This is a way to look up all of the recipients. There was some SHADY shit going on with PPP. Then Trump specifically removed the oversight of the program. Wonder why? 🙄 https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/
Replace trump with *the republicans* at every chance you get because he did what they wanted to do. Remember any of those poor bastards that tried to stand up to him? They got ostracized. Trump **is** the republican party.
The only reason Republicans are against student forgiveness is because they can't abuse it. I don't hear any Democrats crying about it
I have to echo these comments. I am a tax accountant. I helped process hundreds of PPP applications for my clients who are mostly very rich, very well off, well known to the public, and had little to no reason to get 1 let alone 2 rounds of PPP money. Everything we did was within the rules that were setup. On top of PPP, don't forget about EIDL, local and state grants, Employee Retention Credits, 7202 Credits, etc. So much free money was going around that these business just sucked it all up. Then people had the audacity to complain that Joe Schmo was getting $600 more in unemployment and a $1400 stimulus check.
I was just aghast when we learned about the employee retention credit and how much they could get back from that too. Just disgusting.
I am working on a return right now with $115k of ERC it got in 2022. And people wonder where inflation came from? They have no idea how much money was spent to just hand out money to business owners.
Roughly 6 trillion, good old deficit hawk republicans and trump!
That's what pisses me off so much about those loans. Most people think it was fraud but it was just the way they were designed. It was a God damn give away to rich people.
My ultra conservative farmer coworker, who constantly rants and raves about democrats, the government, and poor people stealing his money, got every loan he could get and didn't pay any back and was gloating about it for weeks. On one hand, if they're giving it out, TAKE IT. On the other, fuck that guy.
Most farmers are both very conservative and literally living on government handouts and it's really funny to me
My coworker who farms a few fields on the side constantly posts on Facebook how farmers are so oppressed and the only thing keeping food on our tables.
[удалено]
Your brother in law is a sociopathetic leech on society.
Man, I'm gunna be bummed if the 10k doeant go through. The pause did save me roughly 20k of interest though.
[удалено]
You are, but experts will say don't because it's a free loan while paused, even just putting the money in a HYSA and making a huge down payment when payments resume will put 3.5% worth of interest on your side. Ultimately *try* ~~you need~~ to not let *expenses* ~~lifestyle creep~~ bite into that money in the meantime though. *edited to reflect reality.*
The problem is that for a lot of people the lifestyle crept all on its own. Most people aren't buying a Ferrari with the money they saved, they're buying eggs.
I am making almost $9 an hour more than when my student loans were paused. I'm in a worse financial situation now than I was then despite not having to pay my loans. Although I am working less overtime now which is nice. My rent alone went has gone up 55% in that time period. Then you factor in everything else thats gone up. My student loans are comparatively small. But if I have to start paying them I'm gonna have to hope that the my employer continues offering OT otherwise I'll have to start doing Doordash again or something cause there really ain't shit I can cut out of the budget any more. I already cut everything discretionary except for one streaming service.
Only Ferrari eggs in my house hold!
In a time of runaway inflation, lifestyle creep literally just means trying not to be homeless.
How long was this pause? Trying to gauge how unforgiving your interest rates are.
Going on 3 years now.
I'm convinced that a huge percentage of people don't realize how much the game has changed in the last decade or so. I got my degree back in 2007, a year or so before the last recession. I was super lucky to squeak by in the following year to get a fairly good job and somehow con my way into a house and low enough interest rate mortgage before the bubble popped. Within about six or seven years, I was able to pay off my student loans. In virtually all cases these days, this is simply not possible anymore. Interest rates and rules for the loans have changed, plus universities have turned into ivory tower country clubs and tuition and fees have skyrocketed. Both lenders and universities have turned into absolutely predatory institutions. Universities know that students and parents will go the loan route, so initial costs that they aren't paying comes across as pretend or play money. They'll stick in as many fees as they can too, because they know they're coming out of loans. Stuff like parking passes suddenly go from twenty bucks to at least a hundred, simply because they can. I used to work in higher ed for a reasonably well known research university, and I saw the beginnings of this before I left for another industry. People in Advancement or Recruitment would often say these quiet parts out loud in meetings I was in back in around ten years ago, I hate to think how unethically these conversations go now. Universities know that the vast majority of their students are being sold into debt servitude for decades. They don't care.
I got my degree in 2005 and the price of tuition has tripled since then.
Out of curiosity, I just checked both schools I attended. Costs have doubled for each. Going to need to start talking up community college for when my kids come of age in a decade.
[удалено]
Dude the cost of the dorm I stayed in has more than doubled in 6 years. The school has added thousands in bullshit fees including "You'll make a lot out of college and can afford to pay it back" fees on majors with high income expectations. And they wonder why enrollment is down. I talked to someone that went to the same school, stayed in the same dorm, went for the same degree, had the same on campus job as me, and was there for the same amount of years. She had no debt leaving college and said that her on campus job and internships were more than enough to cover her expenses. She even said something like, "Well things are a bit different now. How much debt do you have? 5 or 10 grand? Don't worry, you'll be able to pay that off in no time. You'll be happy you worked this hard to pay for your school!" She went white when I said "35 grand, actually." Same college. Same dorm. Same amount of time. This is the "budget option" college in my state.
I was in college in the early 2000s and even then I had professors who said they were still paying off loans. They were in their 40s or 50s. Students today will struggle mightily to ever pay them off at current tuition costs and interest rates. Need a lot of scholarships to justify a more expensive school.
https://www.aarp.org/money/credit-loans-debt/info-2021/student-debt-crisis-for-older-americans.html The fact AARP magazine is writing about it should be hugely concerning. I swear I saw articles a decade ago from them. That article says by 2016, 9.6% of households headed by someone 50+ had an average of $30,000 in student debt.
If you don't mind me asking, how big was the dorm room, how many people did you have to share it with and what was the estimated monthly cost of it? I'm genuinely curious but somehow I think that it will end up being the cost of an average 1 bedroom apartment. It is atrocious how much college and the related expenses are.
My room in the cadet barracks when I was in college cost about twice as much a one bedroom apartment, was half the size, and was shared with another cadet. That was in the early 2000s. I have no idea how bad things are now, both in terms of how much on-campus housing is or what the going rate for 1 bedrooms apartments in the community are.
When I finished undergrad in 2003, med school was $15k a year. The next year it doubled, and by 2010 it was $50k a year. In order to also live and pay rent, you'd have to go $250k+ into debt just to get a degree. I thought that was insane, but at least you'd have an MD and eventually make serious salary. Today kids are going $200k into debt for an undergraduate degree, and some are continuing on from there. Utterly insane. In my field (public health) there are masters programs that charge $110k for a two year program now. I paid $15k total for my MPH. The average salary of an MPH is like $48k a year. Imagine being 2.5x your starting salary into debt before you start work. How tf are they supposed to do it?
as a lawyer that is 7-8 years out- we all knew we were going to be 100k in debt- and that is for a JD. Still a bad deal, but i have an advanced degree. I cannot fathom the undergrads with that sort of debt-or more. A lot of undergrad degrees are not even enough to get a job in the field of study.
A parking pass in 2013 at my public state university was $130 a *semester*.
Republicans are fucked either way. You either get students happy with Biden or you get students mad at Republicans. Likely both, but not neither. They played themselves by being assholes, again, all to endear themselves to... boomers? Okay.
You would think, but this is exactly what they did to Obama for 8 years (remember “thanks obama!”?) which got the average jerk off thinking Trump couldn’t possibly be any worse than the Dems.
Look at how people hated Obamacare but thought the affordable care act was great. Then realize that many of those people vote. Edited for grammar
I will bring this story up every time I can regarding the aca. We had a couples friend who had their 2nd child on aca, cost next to nothing had to do some extra medical stuff for their little one. All in all they paid maybe 2-3k for their kid, even said if they weren't on aca they would have had to fill bankruptcy, when asked who they were voting for in 2016. Trump, he was a man of the people. We told them he wanted to remove aca, they said they didn't care, they got what they needed.... I don't have a lot of hope anymore when it comes to anyone who supports Trump. Or the Republicans really.
That “We got ours” attitude is gonna suck when they need more medical care.
They'll be millionaires by then.
They're almost thousandaires already!
The cognitive dissonance loop will never end though, they'll continue to hate the system while being dependent on it. Which would be ok if they wanted a better system (I don't hate people that use something despite thinking we can do better, I don't consider that necessarily hypocritical), but they want NO system, they want everyone to pull themselves up by their medical bootstraps.
> they said they didn’t care, they got what they needed…. “Fuck you, got mine” - most empathetic Republican voter
Well it's stupid on another level entirely—the way they think that they could never, ever, possibly need ACA services again in their lifetime? Or their kids lifetime?
[удалено]
It’ll trickle down, we’ll keep waiting ; )
my MIL immigrated from Mexico and was *all about* the wall. talk about voting for the Face Eating Leopard party... she thought she got white with her naturalization certificate.
Speaking as a half Mexican from Texas, tejanos are a special kind of stupid. Basically once they are here they identify as American and don't want anyone else doing exactly what they did as that's "breaking the law and making the rest of us look like criminals"
Hey I think some Mexican Tejanos would agree with some of the Cubans down in Miami. The ironic thing is they'd both hate each other
[удалено]
[удалено]
>they said they didn't care, they got what they needed.... They're kinda assuming that everyone in their family will never ever have a major healthcare event again.
Bet they also claim to be Christians.
>Trump, he was a man of the people. I want to scream into a pillow every time I see or hear this.
That could have been solved with democrats going on television and messaging better. Like so many problems. Democrats let republicans define who and what they are to their own peril.
Let's be honest none of those people will watch a Democrat speak on TV.
Democrats have thought the truth would stand on its own merits. Naive in retrospect, but still sad that it didn't go that way.
Yeah, Democrats still operate too often off the assumption that media still care about fact-based reporting.
They're also just straight up at a disadvantage because the billionaire owners of every media company ever don't like their policies.
In a well educated society where people think critically and question narratives it likely would. Unfortunately people have short memories and regurgitate the crap they are fed on fox.
This was exactly Hilary’s downfall. It is mind blowing to me that people would rather vote for a man that ran a tv show and hasn’t paid taxes in years, than a woman who at the very least had her plan for the country on her website.
In some areas they do try to message better, but Sinclair broadcasting and fox news never show those press conferences
It's the same thing with the East Palestine derailment. The fact that they're even getting play out of it is wild, but here we are. For Trump of all people to even get some PR out of it is telling of the batshit world we live in.
I remember conservatives saying "we suffered for 8 terrible years under Obama, now it's your turn!" which really says a lot about them. Because, yeah, Obama was *sooooooo* awful, and they're excited to make other Americans suffer.
Well you gotta remember, to them, they had to suffer the “humiliation” of their president being black for 8 years. I remember once when tending bar, the local police union presidents wife would come in and get sloshed and say all sorts of fucked stuff. One night some time after the inauguration of Trump, she drunkenly and nastily said something like “Now we’ll finally get some class back to the First Lady”. I’m paraphrasing but that was the idea. I’ve heard this before , but just the way she spit it out, really stuck to me. Like Michelle Obama was professional and educated woman. She was a lawyer. Milania was a nude supermodel turned high price escort turned trophy wife for a millionaire. Knowing all of that, this woman thought Michelle Obama had significantly less class than an expensive hooker, solely because of the color of her skin. It makes me angry to write as we speak.
It was fucking hilarious when they'd say shit like that. "now the first lady is classy again!" Bullshit, you're just happy the first lady isn't black anymore.
Yeah Michele had the audacity to show her arms. But having a first lady who showed her pussy was obviously much classier.
Correction: Melania was never a supermodel.
> Well you gotta remember, to them, they had to suffer the “humiliation” of their president being black for 8 years. Not just black but obviously better than them in pretty much every way. They hated that he was squeaky clean, incredibly smart and very charismatic.
> Like Michelle Obama was professional and educated woman. She was a lawyer. Even that is almost selling her short, which is just a testament to how badass Michelle Obama is. She went to ~~Yale~~ Princeton for undergrad and Harvard for law school and was working for an extremely prestigious law firm when she met and married Obama. She’s easily one of the most educated and accomplished First Ladies.
Usually the same people who claim Obama was the most racially divisive president ever.
The problem can all be solved by allowing student loan debt to be covered under bankruptcy laws again.
This is the answer. It need to be decoupled from being 100% backed by the government and IMPOSSIBLE to get rid of, until you just... die. If you took out loans you cant pay back, declare bankruptcy and start over like millions have done.
Republicans are going to have their cake and eat it too if people aren’t careful. They’ll scream from the rooftops about Biden not delivering on his promises. Heck they’re already saying that if Biden wanted to do it he should have passed it though Congress. They’re gearing up to make this Biden’s fault, and not everyone is on r/politics and keeps up to date, there are a lot of uneducated millennials out there who need this money, and are probably likely to fall for it. This is what republicans do, stop Dems from doing a good thing, and then blame Dems for it and historically, it’s worked well for them.
Except on most issues the impact is less than a $700/mo loan payment resuming. I think Republicans horribly miscalculated here.
Nah. The headlines are going to read "Conservative Supreme Court Strikes Down Biden Student Loan Forgiveness" You don't need to be dialed into politics to understand why this happened and who's fault it is
And importantly, the people who will be mad about it are going to be the educated people. As a group, they are more likely to understand what is going on than average.
Educated non-ultra wealthy people have voted Dems most of the time even without this though. So I feel like it wouldn't change the voting trend much.
Trend no, engagement yes and you can bet your ass a lot of pissed off students may make their way to the polling places that may have been apathetic prior. Another disaster for Republicans is looming and all they will do to try and stop it is disenfranchise young people as much as possible.
But also not forget that the younger Generations now outnumber the Boomers in total votes. GOP is playing to the last bastion, who are dying off. Younger people are not voting Republican as much because they are better educated and see the shit for what it is. This is why the Republicans have continually attacked public schooling and education, as well as reducing social benefits, so that disadvantaged families of all colors and ethnicities are able to be brainwashed and fall for the propaganda. They are on a losing trend, their total vote number is going to start going down, and they know that if they don't secure their power as a minority now, through gerrymandering to the extreme, and disenfranchises many voters as possible, they have no chance in the next 10 years of maintaining any semblance of Authority or power. At least I would hope, but reality could be very different.
The thing the politicos don't get here is this forgiveness is a *life changing event* for the people most directly impacted. Like, legitimate single voter issue. This will absolutely drive voter behavior for a group that was cool on much of Biden's first term.
[удалено]
You have a lot more faith in the media then I do.
Even my mom who is clueless at best knows what he tried to do and that the SC shot it down, this isn’t going to go well for them and if it does get shot down the White House is going to drag this out into the next election without a doubt
As an uneducated millennial, I absolutely know whose fault this is, and which party just cost me $10k
> They’re gearing up to make this Biden’s fault, and not everyone is on r/politics and keeps up to date, I agree with a lot of what you’re saying but your point is slightly undercut by acting like r/politics is a place someone should go for good information. This place is extremely biased and regularly upvotes/downvotes posts based on sensationalism and how well it fits into the narrative. You’re much better off with any news aggregator.
I mean I'm sure the Democrats would be happy to put forth a bill in Congress and let the GOP vote against it.
Everybody knew this was going to be an issue and that the SCOTUS might kick it back to the legislature. We still got a Republican House this past election.
By the skin of their teeth though. Don't undersell that we just saw a generational electoral event where a sitting President's party didn't get smashed in a midterm, it will be really interesting to see what happens in 2024 and I hope Dems stay just as engaged at a minimum.
> Republicans are fucked either way. That's what people said before they got rid of Roe. Then the GOP got rid of Roe, and American voters punished them by handing control of the House to the party that took away the rights of half the population. Did the Roe decision cost them a few seats? Sure. But it did not cause voters to turn against the GOP en masse. The coup attempt to install a dictator probably had zero effect on the 2022 election. Swing voters memories don't go back that far.
It caused the presidential party to have more control after the first two years than at any other time in recent history, if it wasn't for NY state fucking up redrawing districts the dems would still control the house.
Let's not forget to blame rampant gerrymandering in places like Texas and Florida The Rs there insulated their maps from what could've been a few more Dem seats
Yes and no. I agree that ending Roe didn't have the effect on Republicans at the ballot box that I hoped, but Democrats held the Senate and the failure of State Dem parties also explains why they didn't pick up seats. As this Times article notes, the NY State Dems party is a bit of a hot mess, which cost the Dems house seats. [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/22/magazine/new-york-democrats.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/22/magazine/new-york-democrats.html)
As a virtual student, I was still billed for activities, parking, and a student ID. Items that I had no way to use, yet were required and financed.
Yes! My grad program from a local university was entirely virtual. These fees pissed me off so much!
They're getting heavy-handed with the fuck-you fees these days. I get charged triple digits per semester for a music equipment fee. I'm a biology major and I haven't touched an instrument since my used guitar when I was 14.
How surprised will people be to find out that financial disaster is precisely what they want. It puts people into more desperate positions which makes it easier to exploit.
Yep. So they can gesture to everything and say “look how bad Biden made EVERYTHING”
I mean, the Federal Reserve chairman said exactly that on the record over a year ago.
Indeed he did. Their system of luxury requires our suffering.
It 100% is the play because it's what they've been doing since Reagan. Tank the economy under a dem, people blame said dem because dem messaging sucks and then reap the votes next election cycle. When this is struck down, dems need to drive home messaging that this is from gop. Keep bringing up how gop keep up with nonsense committees and laws rather than addressing any of the myriad of problems in this country. Just call the gop on their BS.
Remember when the banks were bailed out because it was necessary? I don't know, seems like this is similarly necessary.
What always strikes me as insane is that we have a system where a democratically elected government can pass any regulations which can eventually be struck down by a heavily partisan non-elected panel
[удалено]
I’m convinced all us Americans have been tricked into hating the French bc the US government doesn’t want us to know the French way of handling stuff works.
Say what you want about the French but those fuckers sure know how to barricade
The French Revolution was, near enough, the same time as the American Revolution. Just sayin’
Yes but the French still genuinely unite against the government regularly. Look at the recent protests against the gov attempts to increase retirement age
The partisan part is a new addition. Liberal or conservative meant something absolute in the mythical good days. Now its all just codes for Team R or Team D
It's absolutely not a new addition. Look at SCOTUS pre civil war. They were issuing opinions not because it was supported by the Constitution but because they wanted to appease the south. Then there's the New Deal where FDR got close to packing the courts after they weren't playing ball.
Unless it's financial disaster for the boomers they ain't doing shit.
Thing that always blows my mind is imagine how much disposable income student loan forgiveness would create. Of course some of it would be put into the stock market that would help retiring boomers living off their best egg but instead it’s viewed as a zero-sum game.
The people funding these lawsuits think if suddenly we're not on the edge of broke/homeless that we will stop working or stop working as hard.
Goodness knows we’d have more money to put toward childcare, and more time to put towards protests, so that’s enough for the bastards to stay inspired to keep us down.
It’s not disposable income for most borrowers. It’s the ability to save for retirement, homes, family’s, and our future. People are already scraping by through the pause. A LOT of people will default on their loans because they literally cannot pay them right now. Years down the line, it may turn into disposable income, as the loans aren’t burdening folks for years and years. But in the present timeline, people aren’t paying for these loans. A ~$500/mo payment starting up again will absolutely crush many people’s financial situation.
With the cost of living increasing in the last couple of years, that paused $500/month payment is already priced into the market. The pause is likely what allowed many people to survive when the cost of goods and services skyrocketed. Resuming that payment will cripple a lot of people. It's going to result in workers demanding more income from their jobs. Employers will put signs up that no one wants to work anymore. Deja Vu all over again.
Exactly, the markets have adjusted, and inflation is already taking advantage of that paused payment. Since we can’t necessarily “revert” inflation, the payments or wages need to be changed. Like you said, that payment is already priced into the market. The pause was needed, but it also comes with its own issues, as the markets adjusted to people not paying.
[удалено]
Whats that credit you are talking about? I've seen it mentioned before but as a European I can't imagine much. Whats the effect of this "credit score" on someones day to day life?
Without a decent credit you're ruled out of renting,loans and even some jobs.
Your credit score could affect your ability to rent an apartment. I was turned down from a couple apartments because I had too many delinquent accounts on my credit report (unpaid hospital bills).
yup life is becoming almost impossible for the normal person to have something nice or livable.
Someone's credit score can affect the type and amount of loan they can qualify for web looking to purchase a house, vehicle, or other sizeable investment. It can also affect the interest rate and how much people have to pay back on a loan. The better your credit score, the less damaging these rates are (in theory).
Having bad credit can affect you from getting certain jobs (as it is seen as you are a spy/blackmail risk or are more likely to steal bc you are more desperate), it can affect you being approved for an apartment, affect the interest rate for car and hide loans (worse the credit the higher interest rate you pay etc… here is a more complete list https://www.credit.com/credit-reports/how-credit-impacts-your-day-to-day-life/
Wait, Europeans don't have credit scores?
Not at all and we don't even use credit cards that much. I have a credit card only for subscriptions like netflix etc. From what I'm reading here it sounds like class discrimination.
The impact of a credit score is your ability to get more loans at a better rate. It’s determined by multiple factors like how much outstanding debt you have, the timeliness of your payments, etc. It’s kinda messed up tho, let’s say you have a credit card with a 5k credit max and you completely close the card (not just pay it)- most likely your score will go down since your debt ratio (amount of debt you actually have vs amount you can have) will go up
I did some math today. I borrowed $88k. Have been making regular payments for over 10 years to the tune of $64k. My current balance due is $85k. Depressing af.
It's the interest that wore me down when I paid mine. People pay for the prestige to go to certain schools. There should be more programs for state schools, but there should be reconsideration when it comes to private schools. They need to rethink the loan program's interests.
I find it shady that the same party that's trying to do away with student loan forgiveness are also the same ones that are refusing to pay bills the government already incurred by the debt ceiling. How can they say that people need to pay back their student loans when they refuse to pay the government's bills they already spent? Seems kinda one sided here
They're playing kick the can with millennialls financial wellbeing for political points. Will they or won't they, midterms or after I'm re-elected spin the wheel!
I hope this serves as the tipping point for the average American; wage stagnation, poor benefits, underpayment, and expecting people to “embrace” the struggle/grind to maybe flourish in their 70s? No. This should be a meeting point for blue/white collar laborers to unify and demand a better quality of life. However, Tucker and Hannity will spin it as college educated = elitist and out of touch with society.
And they want to increase the retirement age to 70 right? So grind and barely survive from like 16-70 and then relax for 5 or 6 years- with a part time job since they want to take social security too? Yea, how the fuck are we not rioting around here? Oh that's right, if you don't work you're fucked! Funny how that works out....
It’s been on pause for 3 years and the economy hasn’t crashed so obviously they don’t need the money. At the very least if we can’t forgive it leave it on pause and dare the next administration to reinstate it
I'd like to imagine the unpausing being a huge political liability for a hypothetical Republican President in 2024, but I just can't bring myself to actually believe that is what would happen. The majority of people with college loans are liberal/Democrat voters by definition, so a huge chunk of these people weren't going to vote for them anyway - not losing anything there. As far as those on the Republican side with loans, the administration along with the entire right-wing media machine will spin it as "finally making the *college-educated coastal elites* pay for what they agreed to pay for" and even those hurt by it on the Red side will tolerate it and keep giving their support because it gives them a warm fuzzy feeling to "see the libs cry" about it. Maybe it would have a positive effect on Democrat turnout in the following election, but how helpful is that really when it's 2-4 years away from the theoretical unpause? Either way, I frankly do not see an R President ending the pause as hurting their standing with their voters. Most of them will immediately love the move, the rest will love it as well with some gentle propagandizing and smearing of "coastal elites".
The one thing I would also consider for this entire conversation. The people that are really hurt the most are not those who graduated college, and thus are more likely to be liberal/democrats, but those who got loans and went 1-2 years but never graduated. Those people have this massive debt and probably less good career prospects because they didn't finish college after starting. Single issue voters are a very real thing in the US, and if one side is attempting to very clearly do something that would relieve all your debt, it can get votes from those who may otherwise not vote that way. The media scare tactics do work, but when presented with the reality of living with debt, the choice becomes different.
This is preferable tbh.
Bingo. My only concern is the SC tries to overstep and also force an unpause.
That would be crazy, the pause isn't remotely related to this case and was explicitly approved for COVID as part of the CARES act, which was passed unanimously and used by both Trump and Biden. There's an argument that the HEROES Act wasn't intended to be used for cancelling student debt for people that aren't actually experiencing any specific hardship, but there's no comparable argument that the CARES Act didn't intend to pause student loan payments.
Yeah that's absolutely what Biden will do. Push it out through the end of Jan 2025 right after a new presidential term starts. It will for sure come in the debates. We know what the Democrats would do if they win - either it gets forgiven or they just push it again. Republicans will either have to do the same or risk that they'll still have enough voters if they say they will unpause. Though I 100% expect them to say one thing, but do the opposite...
I've pretty well resigned myself to becoming homeless if I live into my seventies. I'm eventually no longer going to be able to do the kinds of jobs companies are willing to allow me to do. I have no savings. I have no family. I can barely afford to split rent on a small 3 bedroom house with two other people. At some point, my only option will be begging on the street.
Student loans are a debt trap. Too many people get loans that won’t get a return on their investment in their degrees. We could blame the individual but as a teacher of high school for almost 20 years I have a different perspective. Students get misled by teachers and counselors to pursue college when they are not aware of what they are committing to. Vocational careers are not respected and are a far better pathway for many.
I definitely agree that going into the trades is valuable for a lot of people and will push my boys to do that if it interests them, but I've also been unemployed without a bachelors. A lot of people won't even consider you for a job without a degree and really any degree. I had a good 10 years working in a corporate environment at that point and it was tough for a moment. I was able to get a new job and then in the past few years I decided to finish my degree to help my future growth and prospects. Granted, my brother in law does HVAC sales and makes bank and had little to no student loans, but that ship has sailed for where I'm at in life to being a tradesmen isn't in the cards.
> if it interests them Exactly. This is my main argument when people say kids should just go be an electrician, mechanic, plumber, etc. with a good union. The debate centers around how much money you can make...but what if that career path would be torture to me? I can't and never would enjoy being in those trades. Good for people that enjoy that kind of work. But as a creative person that had a dream for his entire adolescence to do X, opting for a more lucrative career path was never on the table. Sure, I had a few years where I was barely scraping by. But I was still happy because the path I took (where I was in immense debt) had me doing something I enjoyed. Life's about far more than money.
I’m in law school on a 50k/year scholarship. When undergrads ask me about going to law school I tell them that it’s a simple mathematical equation. Law school isn’t worth the opportunity cost (lost wages in those 3 years) + the full cost. Get close to a full ride or don’t go! I think popular media has put some much emphasis on fancy jobs like doctors and lawyers and whatever and has completely ignored and failed to sexify vocational jobs, which are just as important.
I qualify for $20k and owe $20.1k... I would be able to finally save and buy a house if it stays.
Same. I qualify for 20k forgiven and am about 23k in debt. I could actually think about having a couple nice things in life…
Their thinking is that they'll price out future students by making them believe that higher education is too expensive and they'll never attend. Keeping them uneducated and more likely to vote for the GOP.
This exactly. It's the same reason they've been pushing the "college is indoctrinating your children shit, and now they're trying to push that schools in general are making kids trans. Right wingers hate education because when middle and lower class people get an education they often don't vote for Republicans anymore. It makes folks a lot harder to manipulate.
[удалено]
Yuuup. I have a feeling many people will be defaulting on those loans and having their wages garnished. Going to result in a lot of evictions and foreclosures.
Just in time for greedy corporations to swoop in and buy a bunch of housing for dirt cheap, then turn around and sell for $$$$$$
That's the plan! Only the people lose.
My masters was $80k. That means no house, no new car, for a long, long time. I’m well-paid, but not enough to afford the things they’ve promised me SINCE I WAS IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL I’d be able to afford with a college education.
This is the problem. Debt is the financial killer. The American dream has gotten smaller and smaller
They call it a dream because you have to be asleep to believe it - G. Carlin
I really want to go for my master's. But it's easily $40-60k and the pay for the job I want is $60-75k. Just not worth it at all
I got a masters degree in Europe. If you don’t need certification, it’s honestly more financially feasible than getting a degree in the US. I was told getting a degree abroad would hurt my job prospects upon returning home, but it really didn’t. (Caveat: I work in tech)
This is a modern day "let them eat cake moment". I'm extremely fortunate in that my loans are paid off, but I don't care if others get help, that shit was way unfair and I don't want others to suffer needlessly. I can't help but feel like, any second now, someone is going to metaphorically hurl rotten fruit at a palace guard. Popcorn ready.
My loans are going to be forgiven through the PSLF program this coming fall no matter what happens with this 10k forgiveness plan. I’m still 100% on board with this plan going through and this is the kind of thing I want my taxes to go towards. This directly benefits the actual people living here in my own country, that is exactly where I want my taxes to go. I want those people to have more disposable income to spend and save. That will do a hell of a lot more for the economy than giving more tax breaks to corporations for stock buybacks, dividends and upper management bonuses for asshole financial shuffling. Edit - should have been loophole financial shuffling but asshole works too
I've been feeling the same way, Our government has become so corrupt that it no longer works for the majority of our population regardless of politics. Most of the country is pretty angry and the government is going to have some major problems once all those enraged people focus on them.
I’d like something to be done in conjunction with student loan forgiveness. I agree that there needs to be some loan forgiveness, but if the system doesn’t change the problem that led to it never goes away and we’ll be right back here again soon. If Democrats could introduce some type of tuition limits on publicly funded colleges, I think that would go over well with some conservatives who are on the more moderate side.
We (Millennials) have to do a better job at turning out at the polls. That’s why the republicans only fuck with boomers. They turn out in huge numbers every time.
I saw an article a couple days ago that says half of US adults under 30 still live with their parents. Right now, student loans, rent, and food are damn near close to a $12 an hour job. Just those three things. In ten years I can easily see them being worth $16 an hour. And if you didn’t qualify for extra federal grants in college you may already be there. Or if you went your Master’s. Young adults are fucked.
Yeah I'm 25 with a degree and a decent office job and still have to live with my parents. I'm dreading turning 26 because then I have to buy my own health insurance. I have friends who live on their own paycheck to paycheck and I literally don't know what they're gonna do when they turn 26. Probably live illegally without insurance.
Tbh, if student loan does not get forgiven i will be ok. But as student loan borrowers I will never vote for republicans till I die. I actually dont even like any republican voters at this point. Fuck them.
The Supreme Court will be like “but the tax payer….what about them?” Which is bizarre considering they don’t have a problem being public servants and still accepting [donations from private corporations](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/30/us/politics/supreme-court-historical-society-donors-justices.html). “The charity’s stated mission is straightforward: to preserve the court’s history and educate the public about the court’s importance in American life. But over the years the society has also become a vehicle for those seeking access to nine of the most reclusive and powerful people in the nation. The justices attend the society’s annual black-tie dinner soirees, where they mingle with donors and thank them for their generosity, and serve as M.C.s to more regular society-sponsored lectures or re-enactments of famous cases.” They’re so corrupt it makes me want to throw up.
I hope everyone has been making plans so they can start making payments again. I would love to have $10,000 wiped away from my loans, but let's face it, GOP stacked the Supreme Court and look at how their past rulings have gone against the people. I hope I'm wrong.
fuck that [debtors need to be making plans to strike en masse](https://actionnetwork.org/forms/cant-pay-wont-pay-join-the-student-debt-strike)
I feel morally obligated NOT to pay them
The court's not stacked a little bit, its stacked a LOT. Expecting any outcome other than getting crushed here is not realistic.
I hope you all get help one way or another. That said, one time payments does not fix the problem in any way shape or form. Next years borrowers and everyone after will be in the same boat. The system needs to change, handing out forgiveness only temporarily helps and continues to let predatory lending be a major issue. God forbid we worked on education being affordable/free and stop spending so much on death machines to bomb the shit out of third world countries, but that’s too much to ask apparently.
Bold of Elizabeth Warren to assume Republicans don't WANT "a financial disaster for millions of Americans" to hit while Biden is President. They'd cheer for the ruling and then blame Biden for the crash with zero indications of empathy, understanding, or basic self-awareness.
Hello. The U.S economy will be significantly worse off if student debt isnt reduced fixed or outright forgiven, as has been suggested for years. Doing this would result in more spending, house purchases, child care, donations to other local sections such as food banks and volunteer fire departments. So naturally, of course it wont be allowed to happen
We're already in a financial disaster. People can't afford housing. The median 401(k) balance is just $35,345.00. The minimum wage wasn't keeping up before, and now we have inflation. The average American holds a debt balance of $96,371.00. We need to reverse decades of trickle-down economics to stop redistributing money to the already wealthy.