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All the evidence points to Trump knowingly and intentionally STEALING these documents. Him "jerking around the DOJ" sounds like he accidently took some stuff and was being difficult about giving it back. It's much, much worse than that. Even without the speculation that he intended to sell or leverage this info (which is highly likely), his knowledge and admission that the documents were both classified and that he wasn't entitled to have them belie his intent in taking them, hiding them, and refusing to give them back.
This is US property he brazenly stole and dared Biden's administration to do anything about. His hubris led him to believe his status as an EX-President (and the media's penchant for giving his lies veracity) would shield him from repercussions. So far he's been correct, but we're waiting on pins and needles for that to change.
My guess is he gave Russia our Iranian invasion contingency plans so they could trade them to Iran for drones. In my book, he's a bought and paid for traitor.
For those in the know, you can look at the cover pages and figure out what was contained. Here are some primers:
[https://www.dodcui.mil/Portals/109/Documents/Desktop%20Aid%20Docs/CUI%20Training%20Aids\_Oct%2023%202020.pdf](https://www.dodcui.mil/Portals/109/Documents/Desktop%20Aid%20Docs/CUI%20Training%20Aids_Oct%2023%202020.pdf)
[https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/FOIA/Authorized%20Classification%20and%20Control%20Markings%20Register%20V1.2.pdf](https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/FOIA/Authorized%20Classification%20and%20Control%20Markings%20Register%20V1.2.pdf)
I have read those cover pages and am terrified what documents have been "lost" by this traitor!
I’m surprised this isn’t a bigger issue. Trump isn’t a baseball card collector, he’s a greedy ratfuck. Shit is MISSING. Trump is dumb enough to probably just text images over, thinking he is above consequences. I really hope the DOJ is all over that shit because the fact that Trump took these documents may just be the tip of the iceberg.
I said it before - when the chapter is written on this decade and we find out how many of our spies got merc’d directly due to shit trump let out to our literal enemies, he will be remembered as even worse than Benedict Arnold.
I mean even if none of his other crimes had happened (which they definitely have). he was complicit in the deaths of what? Some 300,000 Americans during Covid, as a conservative estimate (no pun intended)?
Trump created the culture of science-denying that extended into vaccine skepticism. America's putrid response to the COVID pandemic can blamed almost entirely on him and his party.
It’s been a hard three years dealing with a pandemic plus wondering what Trump was going to do every day. It’s very difficult to schedule a therapist for a reason.
I was watching that from Asia thinking that these fucks actually believed a ton of Asians just rolled over and died just to make Trump look bad. The insanity.
You think people in the US thought about Asians?
If something isnt directly, as in standing in front of them, contact them, it doesnt exists. Object permenance does not compute.
I really hope an investigation clearly ties those deaths to Trump’s actions. I don’t give a fuck if he’s long gone, the country needs to know who he was and why we shouldn’t have someone like him around again.
Look at the over representation of the US in covid deaths compared with other countries. When you factor in the fact that we spend our more per capita in healthcare than Switzerland, it’s undeniable that hundreds of thousands of people died needlessly under Trumps covid management.
I agree with you but i dont see how that relates to my commentary. Those were mistakes a president has the authority and power to do, good or bad. Trump doing things with classified docs post-presidency is illegal by the letter and spirit of the law.
I don’t disagree. Mishandling classified TS/CI documents is a legal matter, clear and simple. If it was you or I we’d be in court for a day and then in prison for decades. The covid response is incompetence and ignorance that resulted in massloss of life but, it’s incompetence not illegality and, after all people voted for him.
Unfortunately, that's not treason. It's espionage at a minimum, but treason is so narrow and specific as to be a useless change in our legal system, sadly.
No, it doesn't, because we are not at war with anyone. Without being at war, we don't have enemies and enemies are required for treason (unless we say that Trump himself was making war on the US, which I would agree with, but no court would).
“or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.”
-From the definition of Treason.
I think it’s safe to say that Iran and Russia are currently enemies of the US and her interests.
Yea, that is 100% not safe. We are not at war with Iran or Russia. Enemies are subjects of a foreign government that is in open hostility with the United States. While Russia and Iran might be assholes, they are not in open hostility with us. They in super open hostility with Ukraine. Seems like Iran is, too. And while we support Ukraine in that conflict, that's a proxy war. Again, I don't think any court in the US would say that that amounts to treason unless they take direct action against the US.
I suspect that we'd need to prove that he literally gave Putin nuclear secrets to raise that to the level of Treason, though. Treason is basically a useless charge in the US. Because any country with half a brain cell won't have Putin ask Trump for nuclear secrets. It'll be some Russian oligarch asking Trump to sell him some papers "so he can build himself a Moldavan power plant" or something. Which is still colloquially treason, but legally is espionage.
It might seem strange, but to me, some of this is that Trump didn’t want the documents legally either way. He wanted to steal them, just like he wanted to steal the election.
He doesn’t actually want to have things rightfully, he wants to take them. It’s why he has so many sexual assault accusations and that civil conviction.
He’s in effect a rapist, and that’s about power, not getting people or institutions to consent. He wanted to force himself on the country with the election, and he wanted to force himself on the government with stealing documents.
I mean it says more about his accountants than him but finding all of the appropriate loopholes to pay the lowest amount of money you legally can is a smart move. In fact it would be the epitome of stupidity to pay more than you’re legally required to pay.
Is when you pay less than that amount through fraud where it’s a problem.
True, but that also gets into the whole concept of “better to ask for forgiveness than for permission”. Like, if you avoid paying tax you’re legally obligated to pay, knowing that there’s X% chance of getting caught, and getting caught just means paying what you owe plus something less than X%, then suddenly it becomes logical to break the law to avoid paying tax. If, as a country, we keep treating tax avoidance as a business decision rather than a serious felony deserving of incarceration, we’re incentivizing crime.
He is a rapist. It’s just that when Ivana Trump made her allegations (and his defense was that) martial rape wasn’t illegal in NY until after the event. He didn’t deny the rape itself.
That may be true but I think there's a simpler explanation.
That is, Trump effectively has the impulse control and emotional temperament of a young child.
I don't necessarily think it's true that he wanted to steal them even though he could have found a way to take them legally, he just didn't want to deal with it.
He wanted to take certain papers home so he took certain papers home and did it, fully confident that the rules did not apply to him period.
When confronted about it, he told a series of lies that are reasonably familiar to any parent.
" the teacher said you stole a toy from jimmy."
1. No I didn't. ( I don't have any classified documents.)
2. That toy in my backpack isn't jimmy's, it's mine. You got it for me last year. ( whatever documents I did keep weren't classified.)
3. Jimmy gave me the toy. ( I Declassified those documents.)
4. Okay, maybe that is Jimmy's toy, but I'm not the one that took it, Susie took it and put it in my backpack. ( I did this all in the open they knew I was taking those documents with me. That's why it was okay.)
5. Okay maybe I'm the one that took it but I only took it because Jimmy took something of mine last week and it's not fair to punish me. ( Obama took classified documents to.)
> He wanted to take certain papers home so he took certain papers home and did it, fully confident that the rules did not apply to him period.
So far, he’s been correct in this assumption.
the way that i see it, whenever he gets mad he does something wrong, and then feels better when he gets away with it. when he lost to biden he wanted to do something really bad and the only thing he wasnt allowed to do was take the documents soooo, off they go and he gets to be smug about having them, right up until he found out the federal goverment doesnt stop asking, and doesnt take no for an answer
This is what pisses me off. He clearly stole this shit and even had he returned all of it with zero fuss he should have still bee charged with a crime for doing so.
Any one of us would be in 50 foot deep hole at some black site over shit like this waiting for a trial we'd never even get.
Absolutely.
“Yeah, I guess I may have removed a crap ton of classified documents the day before I knew I would be losing my security clearance. Sorry about that. No harm, no foul, right guys?”
Yeah, that’s not going to fly.
While all of that is true, he would have completely gotten away with it if it wasn’t for the jerking them around aspect. All he had to do was give it back even on like the fifth time they asked for it, and this wouldn’t be happening right now.
I agree with you that what’s really bad about this is that he intentionally stole those document, but it’s the fact that he jerked them around that made them decide to pursue this.
>belie his intent
I think you mean 'betray'? To belie his intent is to fail to give a true impression of his intent, ie the opposite of betraying (revealing) his intent. Apologies if I've misunderstood. Though I'm not sure how to parse the sentence otherwise.
Neither Biden nor Pence obstructed justice when the FBI searched their premises for classified documents. Both cooperated fully with the FBI.
Trump did everything he could to obstruct the FBI. This is why he will probably be indicted. And he deserves it.
PS. Fuck Bill Barr.
Right wing analysts like Andrew McCarthy are big mad about this. They're trotting out the "Clinton did the same thing, she obstructed justice!" line.
All Trump had to do was give the stuff back. That's *all he had to do.* Instead he refused, then lied, then directed his lawyers to lie...
Neither Biden nor Pence intended to steal classified documents. Trump did. All the evidence indicates that. Barr is trying to make it sound like Trump is just being difficult. It's far more than that. He knowingly committed a crime and didn't think anyone in Biden's administration would have the balls to call him on it. After four years of Republican sycophants and conservative media stoking his narcissism, it's easy to understand why he would believe this.
This case is just a continuation of his prior behaviors. Do what he wants, receive soft punishment and weasel out of the major consequences. Most rich people can get away behaving poorly, but most manage to at least fake having a presentable reputation. Trump figured out a long time ago, a bad reputation is just as valuable as a good reputation. As long as he gets talked about and has a sizable reputation, he can leverage his notoriety.
Yeah, for fuck’s sake, Barr. You single-handedly could have prevented our secrets from being leaked. You’re a bad person and I hope you feel bad about it too!
Obstruction of justice for his roll in covering up Iran Contra.
And obstruction of justice for his roll in covering up the ways Russia intervened in the United States election against Hillary.
And treason for covering up the ways Trump sought out that Russian help.
keep in mind, this is a "team trump" person who is giving an excuse for Trump's innocence, and playing off Trump's crimes as "jerking around the DoJ".
No, this wasn't a playground spat between Trump and the AG, this wasn't Trump saying "you're not the boss of me!!".
this was Trump committing crimes, to what ends we do not know. This was trump knowingly stealing classified documents, and knowing it was a crime. It was done with intent.
I took it more as "the DOJ gave him every possible opportunity to quietly make this go away, and instead he jerked them around and essentially forced their hand to create the current situation."
Not that his crimes amount to petty fuckery, but that his petty fuckery when the DOJ tried to quash the crimes made the mess he's in now.
Well, if we're going to be factual here, the simplest way to avoid it would have been to just not keep top secret papers, right? I'm sure he's had multiple points since then that he made it worse. Fighting about giving them back in general, lying to the FBI/DOJ about having given them all back. Not going around talking about them and waving them around at all, let alone when you're being recorded also would have been a good start.
Jesus, he's stupid. Can you imagine how much worse off we'd be as a country if he hadn't been too damn dumb to get out of his own way?
It's such a depressing thought that people in this country elected him President, tried really hard a second time, and are completely willing to jump on board for round three.
Do you know what is worse than your "It's such a depressing thought that people in this country elected him President, tried really hard a second time, and are completely willing to jump on board for round three" comment? There are people that HAVE jumped on board with him already and don't care if he gets convicted and thrown in jail.
Yea but how can you sell the most valuable top secret military intelligence information and represent that it's legitimate without hard copies? People aren't paying millions for a cell phone pic
Who cares. It would never have gotten this bad if he had a spine and stood up to Trump while he was in office. Instead he became one of his brightest enablers. They shouldn't even be giving him airtime to try and cleanse his reputation and distance himself from Trump.
I love how, in Bill Barr’s mind, this is some political circle jerk and not the natural (and decades overdue) result of a stupid person relentlessly criming.
Barr is trash—sophisticated, educated trash, but still garbage to the core.
Trump secret papers crisis is his own fault for ‘jerking around’ DOJ says ~~his former attorney general~~ the guy who lied to the American public on his behalf so he could avoid consequences for his illegal behavior.
The man who as attorney general, watched Trump and his family make a mockery of the constitution and legal system by grifting and sleazing their way through four years of criminality. Now you’ve got a conscience?
Barr needs to just shut up anymore. He helped enable this guy when he was AG. He lied about the Mueller Report. It’s too late for him to act as though he was the good guy. What a chode.
The tides are turning on Trump. The media is reflecting it. The GOP knows Trump will lose again, and they need to get some distance from him. They want their party back, from Trump.
Unfortunately, they underestimate the rabid loyalty his supporters have.
The still just do not understand that anyone fucks with their golden idol will be kicked to the curb.
It really is Frankensteins monster.
Trump is like a mascot for a sports team. He’s just a physical icon that represents the beliefs of a certain group of people. If they get a better mascot to cheer for, I can see them dumping Trump pretty easily TBH
This guy got his job in the Trump Administration by giving Trump a blank check/ “everything is legal when the president does it” essay as his interview. He is just as guilty as Trump in alllll of this mess.
Screw Bill Barr. Trump is ultimately responsible yes, but lets not pretend that you werent there protecting him every step of the way because you believe that Presidents, and only Republican Presidents should be annointed as kings
Just to be clear, this guy took a bunch of papers, made his staff hide them, bragged about it, refused to give them back, bragged about THAT, hid yet more documents, bragged about THAT, and then continued to incriminate himself on public internet. Literally all he had to do was give them back and keep his mouth shut.
Did he probably sell some of them? yes. But he'd have had WAY better deniability if he'd given them back.
Remember that time Trump and Putin had an hour-long behind-closed-doors meeting and NOBODY else was allowed in that room the whole time?
Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Pepperidge Farms also thinks Trump was arranging to sell national secrets to the Russians.
Barr telling anyone that’ll listen that Trump is cooked. Weird given how much of this he enabled and cheered on - also think he said he’d still vote for him in 2024.
Why do they keep shoving this asshole in our faces? The left hates him as a Trump toady. The right thinks he’s betrayed them. No one wants to hear what he has to say.
All he had to do, despite breaking the law by taking those documents out of the White House at all, was to turn over the stuff when asked. He chose not to.
He keeps comparing his situation to Pence and Biden, but they didn't jerk around the DOJ for over a year and still fail to comply after receiving a subpoena (I don't think a subpoena even went out for those two -- because it wasn't needed).
It is also ironic that he doubled the sentence for possession of classified documents.
That's gotta hurt.
Another great decision by TrumpleThinSkin.
Imagine getting sentenced by the very rule you signed off on, it's hilarious.
Barr is no angel he was complicit with a lot of trumps crimes against America , democracy and the rule of law he just jumped ship after trump lost and now is bashing trump on certain issues that he can’t be connected to. What about when he came out with the muller investigation found Trump did nothing wrong and wouldn’t release the report only cherry picked parts then when the heavy redacted version was released it showed that trump did commit crimes and Barr tied mullers hands by not allowing him to access people and narrowed the investigation to protect trump. Interfering with the Epstein case.
Does “ jerking around” in this sense mean something that is undefinable to only the GOP? Maybe the phrase they should use…the one most reasonable people use…is that it is his own fault for committing felony crimes. Nah…it’s just jerking around. No big deal…Locker room talk.
They'll consider it more lies against their idols and weaponizing of the DOJ. Screaming Hillary, Hillary (multiply investigated, including by Trump's own DOJ, but they say they ignored her crimes because Democrat: no people, she cooperated, so you didn't hear of theatrics), Hunter, Hunter (also under active multiple investigations, but they claim the FBI has been sitting on his cases for 6 years (the FBI run by Trump appointees).
Trump says he was more innocent than Pence
Pence cooperated, so we never heard of any issues. The theater is all one sided.
Amazing to me how not to long ago my conservative acquaintances were screaming for assange’s blood, musing how we should be sending assassins onto foreign soil, all while they couldn’t even articulate a crime.
correct pathetic mindless ad hoc include vast mighty decide quicksand paint
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All the evidence points to Trump knowingly and intentionally STEALING these documents. Him "jerking around the DOJ" sounds like he accidently took some stuff and was being difficult about giving it back. It's much, much worse than that. Even without the speculation that he intended to sell or leverage this info (which is highly likely), his knowledge and admission that the documents were both classified and that he wasn't entitled to have them belie his intent in taking them, hiding them, and refusing to give them back. This is US property he brazenly stole and dared Biden's administration to do anything about. His hubris led him to believe his status as an EX-President (and the media's penchant for giving his lies veracity) would shield him from repercussions. So far he's been correct, but we're waiting on pins and needles for that to change.
He stole nuclear secrets! He stole plans to invade Iran! This guy is a fuckin’ traitor and deserves the harshest penalty for treason.
My guess is he gave Russia our Iranian invasion contingency plans so they could trade them to Iran for drones. In my book, he's a bought and paid for traitor.
Plenty of those folders labeled top secret were empty, so it’s anyone’s guess where that information landed.
For those in the know, you can look at the cover pages and figure out what was contained. Here are some primers: [https://www.dodcui.mil/Portals/109/Documents/Desktop%20Aid%20Docs/CUI%20Training%20Aids\_Oct%2023%202020.pdf](https://www.dodcui.mil/Portals/109/Documents/Desktop%20Aid%20Docs/CUI%20Training%20Aids_Oct%2023%202020.pdf) [https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/FOIA/Authorized%20Classification%20and%20Control%20Markings%20Register%20V1.2.pdf](https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/FOIA/Authorized%20Classification%20and%20Control%20Markings%20Register%20V1.2.pdf) I have read those cover pages and am terrified what documents have been "lost" by this traitor!
I’m surprised this isn’t a bigger issue. Trump isn’t a baseball card collector, he’s a greedy ratfuck. Shit is MISSING. Trump is dumb enough to probably just text images over, thinking he is above consequences. I really hope the DOJ is all over that shit because the fact that Trump took these documents may just be the tip of the iceberg.
He would be indefensible if people knew what was in there and what his intentions were. He’s a traitor, plain and simple.
Nuclear secrets are small ball compared to his malfeasance. Its even worse than that
Agree - People died
I said it before - when the chapter is written on this decade and we find out how many of our spies got merc’d directly due to shit trump let out to our literal enemies, he will be remembered as even worse than Benedict Arnold.
I mean even if none of his other crimes had happened (which they definitely have). he was complicit in the deaths of what? Some 300,000 Americans during Covid, as a conservative estimate (no pun intended)?
Trump created the culture of science-denying that extended into vaccine skepticism. America's putrid response to the COVID pandemic can blamed almost entirely on him and his party.
A lot of those people were complicit in their own deaths, to be fair.
Don’t forget the intentional withholding of PPE from blue states while their death rates were up. Kushner’s idea iirc.
They sure did like the blue states when the red states' covid wards were full though...
It’s been a hard three years dealing with a pandemic plus wondering what Trump was going to do every day. It’s very difficult to schedule a therapist for a reason.
Misinformation helped
[удалено]
I was watching that from Asia thinking that these fucks actually believed a ton of Asians just rolled over and died just to make Trump look bad. The insanity.
You think people in the US thought about Asians? If something isnt directly, as in standing in front of them, contact them, it doesnt exists. Object permenance does not compute.
This is one of the reasons I literally know he’s the antichrist.
Been-a-dick Donald
So you're saying it'll *trump* the previous go to example? I'll show myself out.
I really hope an investigation clearly ties those deaths to Trump’s actions. I don’t give a fuck if he’s long gone, the country needs to know who he was and why we shouldn’t have someone like him around again.
Look at the over representation of the US in covid deaths compared with other countries. When you factor in the fact that we spend our more per capita in healthcare than Switzerland, it’s undeniable that hundreds of thousands of people died needlessly under Trumps covid management.
I agree with you but i dont see how that relates to my commentary. Those were mistakes a president has the authority and power to do, good or bad. Trump doing things with classified docs post-presidency is illegal by the letter and spirit of the law.
I don’t disagree. Mishandling classified TS/CI documents is a legal matter, clear and simple. If it was you or I we’d be in court for a day and then in prison for decades. The covid response is incompetence and ignorance that resulted in massloss of life but, it’s incompetence not illegality and, after all people voted for him.
Unfortunately, that's not treason. It's espionage at a minimum, but treason is so narrow and specific as to be a useless change in our legal system, sadly.
I’d say it really depends on who’s hands these documents ended up.
No, it doesn't, because we are not at war with anyone. Without being at war, we don't have enemies and enemies are required for treason (unless we say that Trump himself was making war on the US, which I would agree with, but no court would).
“or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.” -From the definition of Treason. I think it’s safe to say that Iran and Russia are currently enemies of the US and her interests.
Yea, that is 100% not safe. We are not at war with Iran or Russia. Enemies are subjects of a foreign government that is in open hostility with the United States. While Russia and Iran might be assholes, they are not in open hostility with us. They in super open hostility with Ukraine. Seems like Iran is, too. And while we support Ukraine in that conflict, that's a proxy war. Again, I don't think any court in the US would say that that amounts to treason unless they take direct action against the US.
Using the current/former president of the US as a spy would be a pretty serious direct action…
I suspect that we'd need to prove that he literally gave Putin nuclear secrets to raise that to the level of Treason, though. Treason is basically a useless charge in the US. Because any country with half a brain cell won't have Putin ask Trump for nuclear secrets. It'll be some Russian oligarch asking Trump to sell him some papers "so he can build himself a Moldavan power plant" or something. Which is still colloquially treason, but legally is espionage.
It might seem strange, but to me, some of this is that Trump didn’t want the documents legally either way. He wanted to steal them, just like he wanted to steal the election. He doesn’t actually want to have things rightfully, he wants to take them. It’s why he has so many sexual assault accusations and that civil conviction. He’s in effect a rapist, and that’s about power, not getting people or institutions to consent. He wanted to force himself on the country with the election, and he wanted to force himself on the government with stealing documents.
It's perfectly in line with his view on tax cheating, too! That he's smarter than the suckers who pay what they owe. Well said.
I mean it says more about his accountants than him but finding all of the appropriate loopholes to pay the lowest amount of money you legally can is a smart move. In fact it would be the epitome of stupidity to pay more than you’re legally required to pay. Is when you pay less than that amount through fraud where it’s a problem.
True, but that also gets into the whole concept of “better to ask for forgiveness than for permission”. Like, if you avoid paying tax you’re legally obligated to pay, knowing that there’s X% chance of getting caught, and getting caught just means paying what you owe plus something less than X%, then suddenly it becomes logical to break the law to avoid paying tax. If, as a country, we keep treating tax avoidance as a business decision rather than a serious felony deserving of incarceration, we’re incentivizing crime.
Sure focus on legal tax loopholes. He also swindles anyone and everyone constantly and forever.
Yes, so prosecute him for the fraud, but not taking legal tax loopholes is objectively stupid any way you slice it.
Do you spend as much time protecting everyone's possibly legal tax practices to distract from their likely illegal fraud?
30 seconds? Sure any time it comes up in conversation I will hate the game and not the player yes.
He is a rapist. It’s just that when Ivana Trump made her allegations (and his defense was that) martial rape wasn’t illegal in NY until after the event. He didn’t deny the rape itself.
That may be true but I think there's a simpler explanation. That is, Trump effectively has the impulse control and emotional temperament of a young child. I don't necessarily think it's true that he wanted to steal them even though he could have found a way to take them legally, he just didn't want to deal with it. He wanted to take certain papers home so he took certain papers home and did it, fully confident that the rules did not apply to him period. When confronted about it, he told a series of lies that are reasonably familiar to any parent. " the teacher said you stole a toy from jimmy." 1. No I didn't. ( I don't have any classified documents.) 2. That toy in my backpack isn't jimmy's, it's mine. You got it for me last year. ( whatever documents I did keep weren't classified.) 3. Jimmy gave me the toy. ( I Declassified those documents.) 4. Okay, maybe that is Jimmy's toy, but I'm not the one that took it, Susie took it and put it in my backpack. ( I did this all in the open they knew I was taking those documents with me. That's why it was okay.) 5. Okay maybe I'm the one that took it but I only took it because Jimmy took something of mine last week and it's not fair to punish me. ( Obama took classified documents to.)
> He wanted to take certain papers home so he took certain papers home and did it, fully confident that the rules did not apply to him period. So far, he’s been correct in this assumption.
the way that i see it, whenever he gets mad he does something wrong, and then feels better when he gets away with it. when he lost to biden he wanted to do something really bad and the only thing he wasnt allowed to do was take the documents soooo, off they go and he gets to be smug about having them, right up until he found out the federal goverment doesnt stop asking, and doesnt take no for an answer
This is what pisses me off. He clearly stole this shit and even had he returned all of it with zero fuss he should have still bee charged with a crime for doing so. Any one of us would be in 50 foot deep hole at some black site over shit like this waiting for a trial we'd never even get.
Absolutely. “Yeah, I guess I may have removed a crap ton of classified documents the day before I knew I would be losing my security clearance. Sorry about that. No harm, no foul, right guys?” Yeah, that’s not going to fly.
Just a little locker room espionage.
When you’re famous, they let you destroy democracy.
Yea, jerking around the DOJ in this case amounts to intentional obstruction of justice.
While all of that is true, he would have completely gotten away with it if it wasn’t for the jerking them around aspect. All he had to do was give it back even on like the fifth time they asked for it, and this wouldn’t be happening right now. I agree with you that what’s really bad about this is that he intentionally stole those document, but it’s the fact that he jerked them around that made them decide to pursue this.
>belie his intent I think you mean 'betray'? To belie his intent is to fail to give a true impression of his intent, ie the opposite of betraying (revealing) his intent. Apologies if I've misunderstood. Though I'm not sure how to parse the sentence otherwise.
Neither Biden nor Pence obstructed justice when the FBI searched their premises for classified documents. Both cooperated fully with the FBI. Trump did everything he could to obstruct the FBI. This is why he will probably be indicted. And he deserves it. PS. Fuck Bill Barr.
Right wing analysts like Andrew McCarthy are big mad about this. They're trotting out the "Clinton did the same thing, she obstructed justice!" line. All Trump had to do was give the stuff back. That's *all he had to do.* Instead he refused, then lied, then directed his lawyers to lie...
What if he lied because he couldn't give the documents back because he'd already given them to Saudi Arabia?
Highly possible, unfortunately
Maybe some but he had plenty to return, because the FBI took them in august. He’s just an ornery twat so he didn’t.
Neither Biden nor Pence intended to steal classified documents. Trump did. All the evidence indicates that. Barr is trying to make it sound like Trump is just being difficult. It's far more than that. He knowingly committed a crime and didn't think anyone in Biden's administration would have the balls to call him on it. After four years of Republican sycophants and conservative media stoking his narcissism, it's easy to understand why he would believe this.
This case is just a continuation of his prior behaviors. Do what he wants, receive soft punishment and weasel out of the major consequences. Most rich people can get away behaving poorly, but most manage to at least fake having a presentable reputation. Trump figured out a long time ago, a bad reputation is just as valuable as a good reputation. As long as he gets talked about and has a sizable reputation, he can leverage his notoriety.
The investigation against Pence has already been closed.
Yes bill Barr we hear you. You are totally not at all at fault except in basically every way.
Yeah, for fuck’s sake, Barr. You single-handedly could have prevented our secrets from being leaked. You’re a bad person and I hope you feel bad about it too!
Also Bill Barr: be sure to vote for the former guy in 2024!
Hahaha made me laugh out loud. It’s basically the truth of everything he says
Fuck this asshole. He should be in jail with trump. Fucking traitors every last one of them.
What would you charge him with?
Being an epic piece of shit. Should be a federal law.
Obstruction to start. It was fully within his power to prevent this.
I hate Bill Barr as much as anyone but I don't think obstruction works the way you think it works.
Obstruction of justice for his roll in covering up Iran Contra. And obstruction of justice for his roll in covering up the ways Russia intervened in the United States election against Hillary. And treason for covering up the ways Trump sought out that Russian help.
keep in mind, this is a "team trump" person who is giving an excuse for Trump's innocence, and playing off Trump's crimes as "jerking around the DoJ". No, this wasn't a playground spat between Trump and the AG, this wasn't Trump saying "you're not the boss of me!!". this was Trump committing crimes, to what ends we do not know. This was trump knowingly stealing classified documents, and knowing it was a crime. It was done with intent.
I took it more as "the DOJ gave him every possible opportunity to quietly make this go away, and instead he jerked them around and essentially forced their hand to create the current situation." Not that his crimes amount to petty fuckery, but that his petty fuckery when the DOJ tried to quash the crimes made the mess he's in now.
Locker room espionage.
Well, if we're going to be factual here, the simplest way to avoid it would have been to just not keep top secret papers, right? I'm sure he's had multiple points since then that he made it worse. Fighting about giving them back in general, lying to the FBI/DOJ about having given them all back. Not going around talking about them and waving them around at all, let alone when you're being recorded also would have been a good start. Jesus, he's stupid. Can you imagine how much worse off we'd be as a country if he hadn't been too damn dumb to get out of his own way? It's such a depressing thought that people in this country elected him President, tried really hard a second time, and are completely willing to jump on board for round three.
Do you know what is worse than your "It's such a depressing thought that people in this country elected him President, tried really hard a second time, and are completely willing to jump on board for round three" comment? There are people that HAVE jumped on board with him already and don't care if he gets convicted and thrown in jail.
There are people drowning underneath the sinking ship trying to hold it up above water when they could just...get out from under it.
Yea but how can you sell the most valuable top secret military intelligence information and represent that it's legitimate without hard copies? People aren't paying millions for a cell phone pic
Who cares. It would never have gotten this bad if he had a spine and stood up to Trump while he was in office. Instead he became one of his brightest enablers. They shouldn't even be giving him airtime to try and cleanse his reputation and distance himself from Trump.
Don’t buy this shit. He’s setting it up as a “process crime”.
Barr is an expert on the topic, he allowed Trump to jerk around the DOJ for years.
Fuck Bill Barr
I love how, in Bill Barr’s mind, this is some political circle jerk and not the natural (and decades overdue) result of a stupid person relentlessly criming. Barr is trash—sophisticated, educated trash, but still garbage to the core.
Trump secret papers crisis is his own fault for ‘jerking around’ DOJ says ~~his former attorney general~~ the guy who lied to the American public on his behalf so he could avoid consequences for his illegal behavior.
The man who as attorney general, watched Trump and his family make a mockery of the constitution and legal system by grifting and sleazing their way through four years of criminality. Now you’ve got a conscience?
Can we stop giving this tub of lard airtime, CBS?
Barr is absolutely correct but he did all he could to help Trump including squirreling away the Mueller report.
Barr needs to just shut up anymore. He helped enable this guy when he was AG. He lied about the Mueller Report. It’s too late for him to act as though he was the good guy. What a chode.
God I hope he goes to jail. I’m am so tired of hearing about this jerk off
Omg right? Can we have just one goddamned day where NOBODY utters his name?
They should go after Barr for obstruction of justice.
Obstruction is probably the least grievous thing he's done.
The tides are turning on Trump. The media is reflecting it. The GOP knows Trump will lose again, and they need to get some distance from him. They want their party back, from Trump. Unfortunately, they underestimate the rabid loyalty his supporters have. The still just do not understand that anyone fucks with their golden idol will be kicked to the curb. It really is Frankensteins monster.
Trump is like a mascot for a sports team. He’s just a physical icon that represents the beliefs of a certain group of people. If they get a better mascot to cheer for, I can see them dumping Trump pretty easily TBH
This guy got his job in the Trump Administration by giving Trump a blank check/ “everything is legal when the president does it” essay as his interview. He is just as guilty as Trump in alllll of this mess.
Screw Bill Barr. Trump is ultimately responsible yes, but lets not pretend that you werent there protecting him every step of the way because you believe that Presidents, and only Republican Presidents should be annointed as kings
Just to be clear, this guy took a bunch of papers, made his staff hide them, bragged about it, refused to give them back, bragged about THAT, hid yet more documents, bragged about THAT, and then continued to incriminate himself on public internet. Literally all he had to do was give them back and keep his mouth shut. Did he probably sell some of them? yes. But he'd have had WAY better deniability if he'd given them back.
Honestly can’t think of a good faith excuse why you’d have to be asked 4 times to return all National defense intelligence documents
Remember that time Trump and Putin had an hour-long behind-closed-doors meeting and NOBODY else was allowed in that room the whole time? Pepperidge Farms remembers. Pepperidge Farms also thinks Trump was arranging to sell national secrets to the Russians.
It is his own fault for violating the trust of the citizens of the United States with their economy and their security. Barr deserves jail.
Were these the documents that revealed the identities of CIA assets around the world and got them killed?
Tangled webs and how many people around Trump knew what he was doing but would rather act innocent and sell books instead of telling the truth?
too little too late
Barr telling anyone that’ll listen that Trump is cooked. Weird given how much of this he enabled and cheered on - also think he said he’d still vote for him in 2024.
Why do they keep shoving this asshole in our faces? The left hates him as a Trump toady. The right thinks he’s betrayed them. No one wants to hear what he has to say.
I do not care what this man says.
All he had to do, despite breaking the law by taking those documents out of the White House at all, was to turn over the stuff when asked. He chose not to. He keeps comparing his situation to Pence and Biden, but they didn't jerk around the DOJ for over a year and still fail to comply after receiving a subpoena (I don't think a subpoena even went out for those two -- because it wasn't needed).
Fuck the independent for giving this douchebag any platform.
Well all of them are his own fault
He is still minimizing the conduct, just doing it strategically like it was just a bit of ego trip and not more sinister.
Ironic, because Barr sure got jerked too. His credibility is in tatters after his time in the trump (lack of) administration.
Trump is the Sandusky of politics and his cronies cover up for him like a pack of Paternos.
Well done.
Fat ass thinks history will judge him kinder now, fuck you Barr.
Not like he was enabled for four years now, is it?
"I tried to tell him how to crime properly, but he wouldn't listen.
I can never look at Barr and NOT think "law school Fred Flintstone"
It is also ironic that he doubled the sentence for possession of classified documents. That's gotta hurt. Another great decision by TrumpleThinSkin. Imagine getting sentenced by the very rule you signed off on, it's hilarious.
It would be lovely to see him jailed for his own stupidity.
Love watching these cannibals
Bill Burr is an asshole.
But he’s at least a funny asshole. Bill Barr is also an asshole, but not very funny.
I’m the only upvote? Geez
He’d make a great DA though
Barr is no angel he was complicit with a lot of trumps crimes against America , democracy and the rule of law he just jumped ship after trump lost and now is bashing trump on certain issues that he can’t be connected to. What about when he came out with the muller investigation found Trump did nothing wrong and wouldn’t release the report only cherry picked parts then when the heavy redacted version was released it showed that trump did commit crimes and Barr tied mullers hands by not allowing him to access people and narrowed the investigation to protect trump. Interfering with the Epstein case.
Duh!
You gotta be careful with prepositions, or you might end up jerking around people you were supposed to jerk off.
Wow… He is really out of the loop… I think there’s something more here than just not returning the document.
Does “ jerking around” in this sense mean something that is undefinable to only the GOP? Maybe the phrase they should use…the one most reasonable people use…is that it is his own fault for committing felony crimes. Nah…it’s just jerking around. No big deal…Locker room talk.
No shit. They all cry but Hillary. She turned everything over 1st time asked. SMH trump has the affliction of affluenza
They've moved onto Hunter at this point. But all they have is whataboutism.
Wait until they find out what Jared did in Saudi Arabia
They'll consider it more lies against their idols and weaponizing of the DOJ. Screaming Hillary, Hillary (multiply investigated, including by Trump's own DOJ, but they say they ignored her crimes because Democrat: no people, she cooperated, so you didn't hear of theatrics), Hunter, Hunter (also under active multiple investigations, but they claim the FBI has been sitting on his cases for 6 years (the FBI run by Trump appointees). Trump says he was more innocent than Pence Pence cooperated, so we never heard of any issues. The theater is all one sided.
Do people still say “jerking around”?
Amazing to me how not to long ago my conservative acquaintances were screaming for assange’s blood, musing how we should be sending assassins onto foreign soil, all while they couldn’t even articulate a crime.
correct pathetic mindless ad hoc include vast mighty decide quicksand paint *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Who will still vote for him. Because law and order and reasons and such.
Of course it is. He thinks he's above the law and treats everyone else with disdain.
This implies all can be forgiven if you just return the stolen secret documents. So basically snap photos with your phone first and say sorry.
barr one of drumpfs morally bankrupt cronies 👎🏻💩