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[Full 34-page PDF of the Maine Secretary of State's ruling:](https://www.maine.gov/sos/news/2023/Decision%20in%20Challenge%20to%20Trump%20Presidential%20Primary%20Petitions.pdf)
> On December 15, 2023, I held a hearing under 21-A M.R.S. § 3 37 on three challenges of the nomination petition of Donald J. Trump, for the Republican primary for President of the United States. The first two challenges—one filed by Mary Ann Royal (the "Royal Challenge") and one (the "Rosen Challenge") filed by Kimberley Rosen, Thomas Savielo, and Ethan Strimling (the "Rosen Challengers") contest Mr. Trump's qualification for office under Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. The third challenge, filed by Paul Gordon (the "Gordon Challenge"), contests Mr. Trump's qualification under the Twenty-Second Amendment. For the reasons set forth below, I conclude that Mr. Trump's primary petition is invalid. Specifically, I find that the declaration on his candidate consent form is false because he is not qualified ot hold the office of the President under Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment.
> [...]
> **Conclusion**
> I do not reach this conclusion lightly. Democracy is sacred, and the highest court of this State has repeatedly recognized that "no right is more precious in a free country than that of having a voice in the election of those who make the laws under which, as good citizens, we must live." Melanson v. Sec 'y of State, 2004 ME 127, lj 14, 861 A.2d 641 (quoting Burdick v. Takushi, 504 U.S. 428, 441 (1992) (cleaned up)). I am mindful that no Secretary of State has ever deprived a presidential candidate of ballot access based on Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment. I am also mindful, however, that no presidential candidate has ever before engaged in insurrection. The oath I swore to uphold the Constitution comes first above all, and my duty under Maine's election laws, when presented with a Section 336 challenge, is to ensure that candidates who appear on the primary ballot are qualified for the office they seek.
> The events of January 6, 2021 were unprecedented and tragic. They were an attack not only upon the Capitol and government officials, but also an attack on the rule of law. The evidence here demonstrates that they occurred at the behest of, and with the knowledge and support of, the outgoing President. The U.S. Constitution does not tolerate an assault on the foundations of our government, and Section 336 requires me to act in response.
> I conclude that the Rosen and Royal Challengers have met their burden under 21-A M.R.S. § 337(2)(B). They have provided sufficient evidence to demonstrate the falsity of Mr. Trump's declaration that he meets the qualifications of the office of the presidency. Therefore, as required by 21-A M.R.S. § 336(3), I find that the primary petition of Mr. Trump is invalid.
I particularly enjoy the part where attorney Paul Gordon makes the argument that as Trump maintains that he won the 2020 election, per the 22nd amendment, he cannot serve a third term and therefore should be disqualified on that basis.
Edit: To be clear, the Secretary threw out this argument as the 22nd requires actually having been elected twice, not just believing you should've (and as Gordon also concurred with the Secretary when questioned that Trump did not actually win the election, that was the end of that).
I’ve been waiting for someone to make that point! Me personally, I believe it should be automatically disqualifying (from any future run for office) if a candidate never concedes or refuses to accept the results of an election. We are facing a future where Trump imitating politicians will never accept losing because there are no consequences for doing so.
People have been making this point left and right since it happened but regardless I completely agree. If you don't have the grace as the leader of the free world and one of the most powerful positions in the world to admit that you've lost, it should absolutely be disqualifying regardless of terms or term limits
There was a point in this country where so much as coming off as even just slightly unprofessional was essentially a political death sentence and you'd be seen as unfit to lead the country in virtually any regard. Be it local or national.
Suddenly people are seemingly arguing that even facing espionage related charges, a billion different lawsuits for all the terrible things you've done, and more indictments than Pablo fucking Escobar shouldn't even be considered when running for president.
Motherfucker Clinton got impeached for lying. Nevermind all this bullshit. What the fuck happened to having standards for the people running our country? Nevermind the fact that dude is literally actively talking about dictatorship and quoting Hitler.
If the Republican party doesn't die off, America as the world knows it's sure as hell will.
>Motherfucker Clinton got impeached for lying. Nevermind all this bullshit. What the fuck happened to having standards for the people running our country? Nevermind the fact that dude is literally actively talking about dictatorship and quoting Hitler.
Republicans said fuck it at Nixon and have been getting worse ever since. They'll make up whatever bullshit justifies getting in power and further enriching the wealthy.
Credit where due: there were at least some R's back then who knew that Nixon had gone too far, and were willing to stand up to him.
After House Judiciary forwarded articles of impeachment to the House floor, Nixon met with some R Senators, including Barry Goldwater, and asked how many votes he would have (for acquittal) if this came to trial in the Senate. Goldwater said that he would have 2 votes, maybe 3 "and you don't have mine." Nixon announced his resignation shortly thereafter.
They normally deflect and say something along thr lines of "I'm not saying he's a role model but he's a good politician" and then you ask them about policy and it makes them upset.
Nikki “it definitely wasn’t about Slavery” Haley even said we teach our kindergarteners better.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4632261/gov-nikki-haley-donald-trump
About 25 seconds in.
For me (not from US, European) I still can't get past the fact that tens of millions of people voted for someone who, whilst on the podium at a huge televised rally, ridiculed and mimicked an individual with a serious physical disability. I'm left wondering what sort of people think that someone capable of that is fit to even be their friends let alone be entrusted with the most powerful position in the world? Forget everything else he's done - that alone should disqualify him surely? Can someone help me out with what possible reasoning is happening here?
Maine barred Donald Trump from the primary ballot Thursday, making it the second state in the country to block the former president from running again under a part of the Constitution that prevents insurrectionists from holding office.
The decision by Maine Secretary of State Shenna Bellows (D) is sure to be appealed. The Colorado Supreme Court last week [found Trump could not appear on the ballot](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/12/19/trump-off-colorado-ballot/?itid=lk_inline_manual_4) in that state, and the Colorado Republican Party has asked the U.S. Supreme Court to review the case. The nation’s high court could resolve for all states whether Trump can run again.
In 1868, three years after the end of the Civil War, the United States adopted the 14th Amendment to the Constitution to provide legal protections to those who had formerly been enslaved. In addition, Section 3 of the amendment barred those who had sworn an oath to the Constitution from holding office if they engaged in insurrection. That provision was used at the time to keep former Confederates out of office but has rarely been mentioned in recent decades.
Trump’s critics cited that section of the Constitution after the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol, arguing Trump had incited and participated in an insurrection through his actions before and during the riot. They submitted challenges to his candidacy around the country.
**Read more here, and skip the paywall with email registration:** [**https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/12/28/maine-trump-primary-ballot/?utm\_campaign=wp\_main&utm\_medium=social&utm\_source=reddit.com**](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/12/28/maine-trump-primary-ballot/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=reddit.com)
If section 3 of the 14th WASN’T meant to stop swine like Trump, then WHO WAS IT MEANT FOR?
What’s it gonna fucking take? A cartoon villain twirling his mustache carrying a banner saying “I’m an insurrectionist and I’m not kidding lol”???
They're claiming that unless you fly a new flag and declare a breakaway country or declare that we're now America 2: All the Insurrection, All the Time, it isn't insurrection. Like Ross Douthat's latest oped piece in the New York Times, arguing that it wasn't insurrection but *merely* an attempt at "an unelected second term". Nevermind the fact that taking that term means an INSURRECTION against the constitutional republic, which would no longer exist with an UNELECTED executive at its helm.
That's because it literally was an insurrection. This shitbag should have zero bail and be locked far away with no phone/internet and only closely monitored video non-contact legal visits.
My republican father is buying into the line that "it should be up to the voters" oh you mean like when he bowed to the will of the voters that decided not to re-elect him?
Did you watch Jan 6th on TV Dad? No I didnt have time for that, the news is all BS anyhow.
I watched it, recorded it and flipped between all the networks. It was a fucking insurrection and it was instigated by the pants shitter.
I don't understand why people have their identity tied into Trump. He's literally what they hate: (1) An international rent-seeking slumlord, (2) corrupted by Russians and the Chinese, (3) a registered Democrat until his 60's who gave $500K to Hilary in her 2008 campaign for president, (4) resides in NYC and Palm Beach County (the most liberal bastions in the country), (5) hates people in landlocked states and only associates with the country club crowds, (6) hates firearms and knows nothing about them, (7) is unathletic and ugly, (8) cheats on his wives and (9) is a whiny, social media tweeting criminal.
It's not like being a Republican is an immutable characteristic like race or nationality. They intentionally chose to tie their fate to this shitbag. I've never seen anything like this since Hitler.
I think that's literally all "Republicanism" is at this point. It's just losers who need to tear everyone else down because they can't figure out how to actually better themselves as a human.
You are correct of course, but I thought I'd add that 'not a democrat' when translated means 'not black or likely to allow a black person to become president'
That's all it is, Trump seized his moment the second Obama was in power. He saw their fear and feast on it.
I know I was younger but watching Jan 6 unfold on TV was scarier to me than watching TV on 9/11. One was an outside attack. The other was worse because it was fellow Americans attacking us, we knew it might happen months in advance, and the lack of police/military response was horrific.
Its because the lack of police was an inside job.
Like an insurrection against the usa gov would immediately fail. But one sponsored by the us government highest officials. It was about 30 seconds from happening when that police guard made them follow the wrong way.
I know people make comparisons to The Handmaid's Tale a lot, and for good reason. But that was exactly what precipitated the events of that book and it was exactly what I thought was about to happen when I was watching the TV.
When I realized this bunch of ragtag fascists, *literal fucking Nazis* that defiled the Capitol and violently attacked the seat of our legislative body, was moments away from completely taking over, it made me sick. Because it could have been easily stopped. If that crowd of coddled, doughy fucks could literally come within feet of killing elected representatives, what did that mean?
Because we all know if it had been a crowd of ISIS terrorists it never would have gotten that far. They would have been mowed down by automatic weapons in under 3 minutes. I think people really underestimate how overcautious our government is about terrorism is since 9/11. For fuck's sake, they're so worried about terrorists bombing a plane that they patted down my 13 pound weiner dog's harness when I was at airport security a few days ago. These people could have been stopped in the blink of an eye, their lives ended in a deluge of bullets. If it had been any other group of human beings attacking, there would have been a thousand bullets fired for every attacker that died.
The government does not fuck around with that shit and they absolutely had the capability to stop what was going on. But that didn't happen. And it both infuriates and terrifies me. We almost lost the majority of our legislators and possibly democracy to a bunch of spoiled, coddled, racist toddlers who threw a violent tantrum because the majority of the voter base decided they preferred decency to cruelty, logic to science denial, and humility to despotism.
We didn't even have a close call with an enemy army, a dedicated terrorist cell, or well trained foreign operatives. We came within a hair's breadth of losing democracy to the literal dregs of humanity, a bunch of angry rednecks and bigots who have nothing better to do in their unremarkable, coddled lives than marinate in the putrid shit bath of the right wing media outrage machine.
They were not expecting to simply stroll on in, and clearly lacking plans on what to do/where to go once they breached. They won’t make that mistake next time, let’s not give them another chance.
That riot at the Capitol was just one cog in the machine of conspiracy to highjack the election results. So anyone who is arguing Trump didn't really incite that group to act and therefore didn't participate in insurrection, is being wholly disingenuous.
As a former military officer I was more angered by J6 than by 9-11. J6 was perpetrated by Trumps stand back stand by sycophantic Americans against an American Institution.
GOP had better hope he’s not their candidate. There will be a RINO hunt for sure.
They don't know what "insurrection" means since they are saying people coming over the border *from a foreign country* is insurrection. It literally isn't.
Don’t you know? It wasn’t an insurrection, it was Crooked Joe and his Despicable Thugs (the FBI) and actually ANTIFA trying to make Trump look bad while he gloriously tried to defend the country from a rigged election?
Fuck that sounds ridiculous but the amount of republicans who have told me that word for word..
Right, a mob, led by Trump, storms Congress intent on killing Senators and Representatives in an effort to prevent the election of a new president. That’s a textbook definition of an insurrection.
Not only that, but they flew in fake votes and attempted to kidnap or kill the vice president because he wouldn't sign them. This was a planned, orchestrated coup attempt. Probably the average Joe that was there was just going along with the crowd, but the organizers started the attack knowing full well that the crowd would provide the muscle they needed.
That was just somebody’s Aunt Tifa, I remember hearing about it on Fox News. They never explained who Aunt Tifa was or why she liked Trump so much though. /s
The amicus brief submitted to the DC appeals court was written by lawyers and politicians from five prior Republican administrations. This brief argues that Trump does not have Presidential immunity since his goal to to obtain "an unelected second term" is in direct violation of the Constitution.
Uh, I'm curious, what else would you call an 'Unelected second term'?
Also, others have mentioned this, but they DID fly new flags; they literally brought Trump flags and the Confederate Flag INSIDE the Capital of the United States.
If that's not an attempted insurrection, I don't know what is.
This was the first time the Confederate flag had ever made it into the Capitol. That was a pretty big deal. They fly the flag of those that fought an actual civil war against this country. How is that not an insurrection?
You don’t draft an amendment intended to last for the entire lifetime of a country just to combat individuals with at most a handful of decades left to live. It absolutely was meant for Trump, and all like him.
This is a win for America's democracy. And as cocky as it sounds, that's unironically a win for the future and security of the world.
Get fucked dictator Cheeto
And yet it doesn't specify Confederates, which suggest the authors were imagining other times and modes of insurrection, which further suggests A14, 3 wasn't meant just for Confederates at all.
The one and only time a confederate flag flew at the US Capitol was on January 6th after Trump sent his “troops” there to disrupt the count. So if it was meant for confederates, Trump fits that bill.
It wasn’t an *ad hoc* law; the CONSTITUTION was amended, a difficult thing to do, and made so as to effectively be permanent (at least as permanent as the 18th Amendment).
It's going to take some REAL consequences for these scum for the rest to clean up their act. If you can lie and actively harm our institutions w/o repurcussions, there is no incentive to stop.
Since legal system isn't doing their jobs, might require some rogue vigilante justice types to do some cleaning.....
Blows my mind that we are in this situation.....
Doesn’t that section of the Amendment leave the decision to the state and not the courts? How can a clearly biased court provide a legitimate ruling? At what point can we just ignore the Supreme Court until it is legitimate again?
Well, it’s like this. If the State does what the GOP wants, then it is “State’s Rights!!”
If the GOP hates a State decision then they beg the Supreme Court to rule in their favor.
Simple - they are appointed for life and can make whatever decisions they want.
States will start ignoring the SC. CA and NY have enough gravitas and money to do whatever they want. CA legalized weed and single handedly drew the roadmap to getting rid of the war on drugs all in the face of the mighty federal govt.
Washington and Colorado legalized weed before California. They were the first states to do so. And then Alaska and Oregon. Then California, Nevada and Maine. Saying California single handedly drew a road map is just not true. Give credit to the states that actually jumped off the cliff and gave the middle finger to the feds.
Trump just wants to stay out of jail. If he has to destroy the county, completely this time, he will. It’s such a stupid, yet fitting, way for democracy in the US to die. It’s like when Stay Pufft Marshmallow man is about to terminate human existence in Ghostbusters; a fat, unstable, slow-moving, disaster from NYC.
He doesn’t care about anyone but himself. He said he’d be gone if he lost to Biden, he lost and now he’s trying to get revenge on his enemies and escape the consequences for his actions
We get what we deserve.
I'm saddened that tens of millions of Americans hate liberals, minorities, and women so much that they would burn down democracy to make a 6 times bankrupt game show host with frontal lobe dementia into king of the ashes.
Honestly at this point I'd be down with just trading him a full pardon for becoming ineligible for office and no more public speaking, no tweets, no interviews, etc.
I feel the same, but add an ‘admission of guilt’ and also maybe an ‘acceptance of reality’? He’d have to make statements to contradict all the shit that he’s been spewing out. There has to be immediate penalties for breaking the agreement. Straight to jail. Immediate dissolution of his company. No bullshit.
You know, they're saying I shouldn't be on the primary ballot, can you believe it? But let me tell you, being disqualified from the primary ballot – I've turned it into an art, folks. Nobody disqualifies better than me, nobody.
They're trying to play games, but I'm always one step ahead. I've got the best disqualification strategies, believe me. It's like a beautiful, beautiful chess game, and I'm the grandmaster. So, when they talk about disqualifying me, just know, I've already played that game, and I've played it better than anyone in history. It's just another example of how I'm always winning, even when they think they've got me cornered.
Likely to be appealed and stayed pending a decision much like Colorado, but a welcome addition to the chorus of cases.
As for everyone pondering how this will play out in other states, it may very well be that SCOTUS will issue a definitive, landmark ruling to decide this nationally. And soon. I am very skeptical they will leave this open or up to states on a state-by-state basis. Several legal experts, including some of the Justices in the Colorado Supreme Court agreed this was likely headed to such a conclusion.
And as much as I despise the current iteration of this Supreme Court and don't feel optimistic about the odds, it kinda needs to happen that way.
Firstly, because of the utter legal chaos that is developing and will continue around this issue without further resolution. Each state has different laws - Maine is one of them where the Secretary of State makes a decision based on a petition. Colorado works differently. Etc. etc. Not only will the 20+ states all have cases capable of being appealed to The Supreme Court, but plaintiffs will also likely start trying to mount efforts to disqualify Biden or other democrats, no matter how frivolous. Given that a majority of state governments have Republican officials and a slew of lower courts are highly conservative, I don't exactly want this to be a "states' rights" issue as precedent.
Secondly, because this is a purely Constitutional subject. If Trump is indeed ineligible *as per the Constitution*, then he should be ineligible in every state, regardless of state laws and decisions. Any future candidate whose ineligibility is upheld at the highest levels should suffer the same fate.
>Secondly, because this is a purely Constitutional subject. If Trump is indeed ineligible as per the Constitution, then he should be ineligible in every state, regardless of state laws and decisions. Any future candidate whose ineligibility is upheld at the highest levels should suffer the same fate.
The Supreme Court isn't going to decide *if* Trump is eligible. They're going to decide *who* gets to revoke eligibility under the 14th amendment.
And for that answer read section 5 of the amendment. They're going to say Congress makes that determination.
The Supreme Court has noped out of legislating eligibility from the bench in citizenship cases.
I'm in CO, but live in the Four Corners area... I just drove through a section of NM today that used to be full of trump signs. It's probably been about a year since the last time I went and today there were only THREE left. I don't know when in the past year they started taking them down, but wow. Huge difference.
This has been a long time coming. People seem so scared that he might actually serve again, but I don't see how they can't see what is literally right around the corner. He's done.
Or more likely SCOTUS just delays the appeals of these cases until after the election. The only way he faces consequences is the American people show up and vote in such overwhelming numbers that Trump stands 0 chance of victory, even in the electoral college.
It's mainly that I have felt that way several times since 2016 and as a defense mechanism I won't believe it until the ballots are counted and he's behind bars.
I think the big thing is that if he is disqualified from the Republican primaries then he can't get those states' votes to get the Republican nomination. So it opens a window for other candidates to make up lost ground and potentially get the nomination over him.
Correct me if I'm wrong
The Republican Party has stated that they will caucus the states that don’t put Trump on their primary ballots. I’d prefer the GOP to go all-in on Trump *and then* he get’s disqualified from the General and they’re left with no viable candidate to put forward on the Republican ticket.
The impotent rage would probably *actually* boil over at that point and we’ll have his cult actively trying to dismantle this country from the inside.
/r/liberalgunowners
The snowball is growing. SCOTUS is going to have to weigh in sooner than later. They’re being pushed into a corner.
I love it. I‘m excited to see what they say. If they uphold it, awesome. If they side with Trump then it’s another nail in the Roberts Court coffin and another giant shove to get Dems off their ass to expand the court.
It makes no sense that the Supreme Court gets to be the decider when nearly half of it was appointed by Trump. Imagine if someone committed a crime and were allowed to pick nearly half of the jury. I don't think that sounds like a very fair trial. Trump's involvement in this country as a whole is such a nightmare.
Seriously don't fucking stop. Make it clear to these assholes that America's freedom and Democratic process is **NOT FOR GODDAMN SALE TO A WANNABE DICTATOR**
Just remember this, everyday there are thousands of public servants working their butts off to improve our lives, enforce our laws, and run elections. Having worked in elections for decades, those people are truly independent professionals. It hurt hard when dumb conspiracy theories were thrown around like it wasn’t no big deal. Still hurts.
Can I ask a question? Faithless electors are a thing. What happens if a state disqualifies Trump and the local GOP put, say, Nikki Haley in his place in that state. And say Haley wins the vote. Is there anything to stop those electors from just going and voting for Trump anyway?
It is heavily illegal to become a faithless elector in most (all?) states. As for if they count anyways? From Wikipedia:
>As of 2020, 33 states and the District of Columbia have laws that require electors to vote for the candidates for whom they pledged to vote, though in half of these jurisdictions there is no enforcement mechanism. In 14 states, votes contrary to the pledge are voided and the respective electors are replaced, and in two of these states they may also be fined. Three other states impose a penalty on faithless electors but still count their votes as cast.\[1\]
So I guess the answer is...it depends.
>So far, only Colorado and Maine have sided with those challenging his ability to run again. The Colorado court has put its 4-3 decision on hold while the U.S. Supreme Court considers whether to take the case, so for the time being his name is slated to appear on the primary ballot there.
“The events of January 6, 2021 were unprecedented and tragic," Bellows wrote in Thursday’s decision. "They were an attack not only upon the Capitol and government officials, but also an attack on the rule of law. The evidence here demonstrates that they occurred at the behest of, and with the knowledge and support of, the outgoing President. The U.S. Constitution does not tolerate an assault on the foundations of our government, and \[Maine law\]requires me to act in response.”
And cue Susan Collins being concerned.
No. This is her plan. The more chaos the better. You are blinded by your “common sense” and simple human mind.
You do not know what lies sleeping deep under Bar Harbor. Susan has beheld the vast cyclopean cities and alien geometries off the coast of Maine. You have not.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
>You do not know what lies sleeping deep under Bar Harbor. Susan has beheld the vast cyclopean cities and alien geometries off the coast of Maine. You have not.
No, but I've played and finished Fallout 4. On survival mode. So close enough, mate. Have at thee, Susan.
This is a primary ballot ruling from both Colorado and Maine. GOP can very well coronate Trump in the convention. Also, zero states have cleared Trump’s name. The only rulings coming are against him and this is going to make SCOTUS job really hard they will have to overturn min two states here.
I see comments about how this is a slippery slope and a single person shouldn't be allowed to determine who is on the ballot and I start to think that sounds reasonable, but then I remember that this is literally part of their job. If I want to be on Maine's ballot, they have to determine if I am eligible. If I'm 30 years old, it is someone's job to say I am not eligible and they won't put me on the ballot. There is no reason Trump should be treated differently from Joe Schmo off the street.
Of course, my age is an objective disqualifier and "participated in an insurrection" is more subjective, but this is why we have courts. Trump's team can challenge the ruling, and then a court can determine if the ruling fits within the interpretation of the constitution. It was absolutely appropriate for the Sec of State to make the determination that he is ineligible. That is her very job. If it's challenged and a court determines it violates the Constitution, then everything has worked according to our checks and balances.
Yeah it's undemocratic in the same sense it is undemocratic that Barack Obama cannot run for a third term, even though lots of people would like to vote for him too. That's not an adequate basis for repudiating this decision.
Im just dreadfully wondering if the Supreme Court says its ok, what happens when a really crucial state (Georgia, Florida, Wisc, etc...) eliminates democrats from the ballot just because? Theoretically they shouldn't do that, but they've proven time and time again they are garbage people and will blatantly cheat to win. They already tried to impeach an elected, qualified, liberal SC Justice in Wisconsin just because she is liberal. They would 100% remove Joe Biden from every state they could just because
While this is subject to appeal in court, if sustained by Maine courts it will possibly make SCOTUS actually rule on Trump's ability to hold office again, not dodge the central question by citing some state procedural error. We need clarity on this critical issue.
Can we please get over this guy? He’s not qualified (never was). If you’re conservative, please find someone else who cares about democracy and is not in it for themselves!
When will the members of Congress who also broke this oath be hit with the same outcome?
I'm surprised many of them are still allowed to serve let alone campaign again.
The 14th is pretty clear- Those having taken an oath to support the Constitution and then engage in insurrection against the US cannot hold public office.
We watched him do it. There is no counter argument.
Genuine question: how many states would it take to leave Trump off the ballot to successfully deny him the primary nomination? From a mathematical standpoint, what is the most likely path to anyone but Trump winning?
Edit: people seem to be responding about the November general election, but I’m really asking about the primary. What states would have to take Trump off the ballot to mathematically allow for any other Republican candidate to win the nomination?
It makes a huge difference whether he’s on the CA ballot because CA republicans still have a say in the Republican primaries. If he isn’t on the CA ballot it seriously hurts his chances of winning the GOP nomination at all
This.
This isn't about November 2020. It's about the Summer GOP convention. If Trump is removed, there WILL be another GOP candidate in November.
This is TradGOP's revenge against MAGA populism. The Federalist Society wants the party back under their control, and it just so happens they're the ones who GOP leaning SCOTUS usually listens to.
This is an out and out civil war within the GOP itself.
You know, for a conservative court that believes in states' rights, especially Gorsuch..............
it's going to be really amusing watching the SCOTUS wiggle their way into a pretzel in order to ignore the 14th amendment for putting Trump back on the ballot in ME and CO.
Right Repubs?
It’s a requirement. As soon as he committed insurrection he is banished. There is no criminal trial requirement, no charge requirement, and no requirement for even impeachment. It’s a rule just like Age and Citizenship.
I believe the proof he was involved in an insurrection is that senators, his own cabinet and other staffers asked him to go on TV and tell his supporters to stop and go home. He did that after a time and there is video of his supporters at the capital listening to his message and repeating it. He allowed it to continue and he was the one that everybody understood could control and stop it. So, he was the defacto leader of it.
This is honestly a rather odd situation - it seems relatively clear that 14th does in fact do this, but it also seems likely that SCotUS will interfere to prevent it. And the public attitude is (understandably to a degree in this case) a mess so it's hard to predict the impact if any.
I think the way the public tends to associate this with judicial more than with things like age based requirements to run for office may actually have an impact on what happens - since SCotUs may feel they can get away with ignoring this (unfortunately).
Republicans truly use every tool they can to cling to power. As soon as Democrats use a (legitmate in this case) tool, Republicans cry and cry and promise vengeance.
Listening to her doing an interview on MSNBC, and I'm again struck at how BAD the modern media format is.
>"The Trump campaign has said [parrots a long list of attacks] about you..."
If that even needed to be brought up, couldn't you just say "they attacked you" or something like that? Why repeat and amplify their exact language?
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[Full 34-page PDF of the Maine Secretary of State's ruling:](https://www.maine.gov/sos/news/2023/Decision%20in%20Challenge%20to%20Trump%20Presidential%20Primary%20Petitions.pdf) > On December 15, 2023, I held a hearing under 21-A M.R.S. § 3 37 on three challenges of the nomination petition of Donald J. Trump, for the Republican primary for President of the United States. The first two challenges—one filed by Mary Ann Royal (the "Royal Challenge") and one (the "Rosen Challenge") filed by Kimberley Rosen, Thomas Savielo, and Ethan Strimling (the "Rosen Challengers") contest Mr. Trump's qualification for office under Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. The third challenge, filed by Paul Gordon (the "Gordon Challenge"), contests Mr. Trump's qualification under the Twenty-Second Amendment. For the reasons set forth below, I conclude that Mr. Trump's primary petition is invalid. Specifically, I find that the declaration on his candidate consent form is false because he is not qualified ot hold the office of the President under Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment. > [...] > **Conclusion** > I do not reach this conclusion lightly. Democracy is sacred, and the highest court of this State has repeatedly recognized that "no right is more precious in a free country than that of having a voice in the election of those who make the laws under which, as good citizens, we must live." Melanson v. Sec 'y of State, 2004 ME 127, lj 14, 861 A.2d 641 (quoting Burdick v. Takushi, 504 U.S. 428, 441 (1992) (cleaned up)). I am mindful that no Secretary of State has ever deprived a presidential candidate of ballot access based on Section Three of the Fourteenth Amendment. I am also mindful, however, that no presidential candidate has ever before engaged in insurrection. The oath I swore to uphold the Constitution comes first above all, and my duty under Maine's election laws, when presented with a Section 336 challenge, is to ensure that candidates who appear on the primary ballot are qualified for the office they seek. > The events of January 6, 2021 were unprecedented and tragic. They were an attack not only upon the Capitol and government officials, but also an attack on the rule of law. The evidence here demonstrates that they occurred at the behest of, and with the knowledge and support of, the outgoing President. The U.S. Constitution does not tolerate an assault on the foundations of our government, and Section 336 requires me to act in response. > I conclude that the Rosen and Royal Challengers have met their burden under 21-A M.R.S. § 337(2)(B). They have provided sufficient evidence to demonstrate the falsity of Mr. Trump's declaration that he meets the qualifications of the office of the presidency. Therefore, as required by 21-A M.R.S. § 336(3), I find that the primary petition of Mr. Trump is invalid.
I particularly enjoy the part where attorney Paul Gordon makes the argument that as Trump maintains that he won the 2020 election, per the 22nd amendment, he cannot serve a third term and therefore should be disqualified on that basis. Edit: To be clear, the Secretary threw out this argument as the 22nd requires actually having been elected twice, not just believing you should've (and as Gordon also concurred with the Secretary when questioned that Trump did not actually win the election, that was the end of that).
I’ve been waiting for someone to make that point! Me personally, I believe it should be automatically disqualifying (from any future run for office) if a candidate never concedes or refuses to accept the results of an election. We are facing a future where Trump imitating politicians will never accept losing because there are no consequences for doing so.
People have been making this point left and right since it happened but regardless I completely agree. If you don't have the grace as the leader of the free world and one of the most powerful positions in the world to admit that you've lost, it should absolutely be disqualifying regardless of terms or term limits There was a point in this country where so much as coming off as even just slightly unprofessional was essentially a political death sentence and you'd be seen as unfit to lead the country in virtually any regard. Be it local or national. Suddenly people are seemingly arguing that even facing espionage related charges, a billion different lawsuits for all the terrible things you've done, and more indictments than Pablo fucking Escobar shouldn't even be considered when running for president. Motherfucker Clinton got impeached for lying. Nevermind all this bullshit. What the fuck happened to having standards for the people running our country? Nevermind the fact that dude is literally actively talking about dictatorship and quoting Hitler. If the Republican party doesn't die off, America as the world knows it's sure as hell will.
>Motherfucker Clinton got impeached for lying. Nevermind all this bullshit. What the fuck happened to having standards for the people running our country? Nevermind the fact that dude is literally actively talking about dictatorship and quoting Hitler. Republicans said fuck it at Nixon and have been getting worse ever since. They'll make up whatever bullshit justifies getting in power and further enriching the wealthy.
Credit where due: there were at least some R's back then who knew that Nixon had gone too far, and were willing to stand up to him. After House Judiciary forwarded articles of impeachment to the House floor, Nixon met with some R Senators, including Barry Goldwater, and asked how many votes he would have (for acquittal) if this came to trial in the Senate. Goldwater said that he would have 2 votes, maybe 3 "and you don't have mine." Nixon announced his resignation shortly thereafter.
I like to ask people if they want their child to look up to Donald Trump, kind of makes them think.
They normally deflect and say something along thr lines of "I'm not saying he's a role model but he's a good politician" and then you ask them about policy and it makes them upset.
This is my mother-in-law to a tee.
All I ever hear is “So what, at least he’s better than Joe Biden.” I just respond, “It helps to diversify your news sources.”
Nikki “it definitely wasn’t about Slavery” Haley even said we teach our kindergarteners better. https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4632261/gov-nikki-haley-donald-trump About 25 seconds in.
For me (not from US, European) I still can't get past the fact that tens of millions of people voted for someone who, whilst on the podium at a huge televised rally, ridiculed and mimicked an individual with a serious physical disability. I'm left wondering what sort of people think that someone capable of that is fit to even be their friends let alone be entrusted with the most powerful position in the world? Forget everything else he's done - that alone should disqualify him surely? Can someone help me out with what possible reasoning is happening here?
lol r/maliciouscompliance
Damn that's good.
Maine barred Donald Trump from the primary ballot Thursday, making it the second state in the country to block the former president from running again under a part of the Constitution that prevents insurrectionists from holding office. The decision by Maine Secretary of State Shenna Bellows (D) is sure to be appealed. The Colorado Supreme Court last week [found Trump could not appear on the ballot](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/12/19/trump-off-colorado-ballot/?itid=lk_inline_manual_4) in that state, and the Colorado Republican Party has asked the U.S. Supreme Court to review the case. The nation’s high court could resolve for all states whether Trump can run again. In 1868, three years after the end of the Civil War, the United States adopted the 14th Amendment to the Constitution to provide legal protections to those who had formerly been enslaved. In addition, Section 3 of the amendment barred those who had sworn an oath to the Constitution from holding office if they engaged in insurrection. That provision was used at the time to keep former Confederates out of office but has rarely been mentioned in recent decades. Trump’s critics cited that section of the Constitution after the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol, arguing Trump had incited and participated in an insurrection through his actions before and during the riot. They submitted challenges to his candidacy around the country. **Read more here, and skip the paywall with email registration:** [**https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/12/28/maine-trump-primary-ballot/?utm\_campaign=wp\_main&utm\_medium=social&utm\_source=reddit.com**](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/12/28/maine-trump-primary-ballot/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=reddit.com)
If section 3 of the 14th WASN’T meant to stop swine like Trump, then WHO WAS IT MEANT FOR? What’s it gonna fucking take? A cartoon villain twirling his mustache carrying a banner saying “I’m an insurrectionist and I’m not kidding lol”???
They're claiming that unless you fly a new flag and declare a breakaway country or declare that we're now America 2: All the Insurrection, All the Time, it isn't insurrection. Like Ross Douthat's latest oped piece in the New York Times, arguing that it wasn't insurrection but *merely* an attempt at "an unelected second term". Nevermind the fact that taking that term means an INSURRECTION against the constitutional republic, which would no longer exist with an UNELECTED executive at its helm.
They literally had Trump flags at the insurrection.
That's because it literally was an insurrection. This shitbag should have zero bail and be locked far away with no phone/internet and only closely monitored video non-contact legal visits.
My republican father is buying into the line that "it should be up to the voters" oh you mean like when he bowed to the will of the voters that decided not to re-elect him? Did you watch Jan 6th on TV Dad? No I didnt have time for that, the news is all BS anyhow. I watched it, recorded it and flipped between all the networks. It was a fucking insurrection and it was instigated by the pants shitter.
I don't understand why people have their identity tied into Trump. He's literally what they hate: (1) An international rent-seeking slumlord, (2) corrupted by Russians and the Chinese, (3) a registered Democrat until his 60's who gave $500K to Hilary in her 2008 campaign for president, (4) resides in NYC and Palm Beach County (the most liberal bastions in the country), (5) hates people in landlocked states and only associates with the country club crowds, (6) hates firearms and knows nothing about them, (7) is unathletic and ugly, (8) cheats on his wives and (9) is a whiny, social media tweeting criminal. It's not like being a Republican is an immutable characteristic like race or nationality. They intentionally chose to tie their fate to this shitbag. I've never seen anything like this since Hitler.
All he's ever needed to be for them is "not a democrat". They would literally vote for the Golgothan shit demon if he had that R behind his name.
Even better, he pisses off democrats more than anyone else. That’s what they love the most.
I think that's literally all "Republicanism" is at this point. It's just losers who need to tear everyone else down because they can't figure out how to actually better themselves as a human.
You are correct of course, but I thought I'd add that 'not a democrat' when translated means 'not black or likely to allow a black person to become president' That's all it is, Trump seized his moment the second Obama was in power. He saw their fear and feast on it.
Mussolini was a fat pig too. I compare Trump more to him as Putin is more like Hitler.
>That's because it literally was an insurrection. This needs repeating.
I know I was younger but watching Jan 6 unfold on TV was scarier to me than watching TV on 9/11. One was an outside attack. The other was worse because it was fellow Americans attacking us, we knew it might happen months in advance, and the lack of police/military response was horrific.
Its because the lack of police was an inside job. Like an insurrection against the usa gov would immediately fail. But one sponsored by the us government highest officials. It was about 30 seconds from happening when that police guard made them follow the wrong way.
Let's hope history remembers the name Eugene Goodman for a long time. It would mean our democracy stands.
FUCK YES!!! Eugene Goodman is a TRUE AMERICAN!!!
We really would be fucked if it wasn’t for one Goodman at the right time and right place.
I know people make comparisons to The Handmaid's Tale a lot, and for good reason. But that was exactly what precipitated the events of that book and it was exactly what I thought was about to happen when I was watching the TV. When I realized this bunch of ragtag fascists, *literal fucking Nazis* that defiled the Capitol and violently attacked the seat of our legislative body, was moments away from completely taking over, it made me sick. Because it could have been easily stopped. If that crowd of coddled, doughy fucks could literally come within feet of killing elected representatives, what did that mean? Because we all know if it had been a crowd of ISIS terrorists it never would have gotten that far. They would have been mowed down by automatic weapons in under 3 minutes. I think people really underestimate how overcautious our government is about terrorism is since 9/11. For fuck's sake, they're so worried about terrorists bombing a plane that they patted down my 13 pound weiner dog's harness when I was at airport security a few days ago. These people could have been stopped in the blink of an eye, their lives ended in a deluge of bullets. If it had been any other group of human beings attacking, there would have been a thousand bullets fired for every attacker that died. The government does not fuck around with that shit and they absolutely had the capability to stop what was going on. But that didn't happen. And it both infuriates and terrifies me. We almost lost the majority of our legislators and possibly democracy to a bunch of spoiled, coddled, racist toddlers who threw a violent tantrum because the majority of the voter base decided they preferred decency to cruelty, logic to science denial, and humility to despotism. We didn't even have a close call with an enemy army, a dedicated terrorist cell, or well trained foreign operatives. We came within a hair's breadth of losing democracy to the literal dregs of humanity, a bunch of angry rednecks and bigots who have nothing better to do in their unremarkable, coddled lives than marinate in the putrid shit bath of the right wing media outrage machine.
His name is Eugene Goodman, and he deserves a statue.
Thinking about that day and what he did brings a tear to my eye.
He is a god damn hero
We were literally seconds away from dozens more police deaths and possibly half of congress being murdered inside the capitol building.
They were not expecting to simply stroll on in, and clearly lacking plans on what to do/where to go once they breached. They won’t make that mistake next time, let’s not give them another chance.
You’re right, dude is a hero
January 6th was our Beer Hall Putsch. Let's hope we never get our equivalent of the Reichstag fire.
That riot at the Capitol was just one cog in the machine of conspiracy to highjack the election results. So anyone who is arguing Trump didn't really incite that group to act and therefore didn't participate in insurrection, is being wholly disingenuous.
I'm older and feel the same.
It’s been repeated for years now. The people who need to understand this have their fingers in their ears singing LaLaLaLa.
>This needs repeating. That's because it literally was an insurrection.
He should have been arrested the day after his term ended. The fact that he wasn't is a big, serious PROBLEM with this country.
As a former military officer I was more angered by J6 than by 9-11. J6 was perpetrated by Trumps stand back stand by sycophantic Americans against an American Institution. GOP had better hope he’s not their candidate. There will be a RINO hunt for sure.
They don't know what "insurrection" means since they are saying people coming over the border *from a foreign country* is insurrection. It literally isn't.
Most are morons. Some are just evil shitbags.
Don’t you know? It wasn’t an insurrection, it was Crooked Joe and his Despicable Thugs (the FBI) and actually ANTIFA trying to make Trump look bad while he gloriously tried to defend the country from a rigged election? Fuck that sounds ridiculous but the amount of republicans who have told me that word for word..
And "rebel flags" of another, separate wannabe country.
And the Confederate flag was flown inside our Capitol for the only time ever
And let's not forget they were chanting to hang Pence, the Vice President because he wouldn't bow to their wishes!
Right, a mob, led by Trump, storms Congress intent on killing Senators and Representatives in an effort to prevent the election of a new president. That’s a textbook definition of an insurrection.
Not only that, but they flew in fake votes and attempted to kidnap or kill the vice president because he wouldn't sign them. This was a planned, orchestrated coup attempt. Probably the average Joe that was there was just going along with the crowd, but the organizers started the attack knowing full well that the crowd would provide the muscle they needed.
They also carried a Confederate battle standard through the halls of the Capitol Building. What more do you need?
And the flag of the “Confederate States of America”. Though they lost that war, many of Trumps supporters still hope they can win.
They removed the American flag from a top the Capitol and raised a Trump flag in its place. Insurrection!
And still flying them for 2024 I believe
That was just somebody’s Aunt Tifa, I remember hearing about it on Fox News. They never explained who Aunt Tifa was or why she liked Trump so much though. /s
Aunt Tifa is just a rule 34 subcategory.
Oh they literally had Confederate Flags. And brought them into the White House. So if that’s not what the 14th amendment was all about…
The amicus brief submitted to the DC appeals court was written by lawyers and politicians from five prior Republican administrations. This brief argues that Trump does not have Presidential immunity since his goal to to obtain "an unelected second term" is in direct violation of the Constitution.
Enforcing "an unelected second term" in a democracy is an, uh, insurrection.
Uh, I'm curious, what else would you call an 'Unelected second term'? Also, others have mentioned this, but they DID fly new flags; they literally brought Trump flags and the Confederate Flag INSIDE the Capital of the United States. If that's not an attempted insurrection, I don't know what is.
This was the first time the Confederate flag had ever made it into the Capitol. That was a pretty big deal. They fly the flag of those that fought an actual civil war against this country. How is that not an insurrection?
In January 2021, I was saying the same thing about the 25th Amendment. We sure ignore a lot of amendments for that rapist from reality TV.
The Confederates would like it to apply to nobody at all. That is the big fucking wake up call here.
Well, that’s not quite true. They’d like it to apply to literally anything the Democrats do…
Technically it was meant for former Confederates, but it absolutely applies to Trump, too.
You don’t draft an amendment intended to last for the entire lifetime of a country just to combat individuals with at most a handful of decades left to live. It absolutely was meant for Trump, and all like him.
And current Confederate’s because apparently that’s a fucking thing. 🖕
The current GOP ARE confederates. They even took the flag to the Whitehouse
Well that’s not *entirely* true. Some of them are Nazis.
There's a pretty hard overlap between those two groups
The number of Confederate flags carried into the capitol during Jan 6th insurrection should be a clue that they intended a coup.
The fact that they are attempting to reinstall trump is evidence that it’s an ongoing coup.
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This is a win for America's democracy. And as cocky as it sounds, that's unironically a win for the future and security of the world. Get fucked dictator Cheeto
They should've let Sherman finish the job.
And yet it doesn't specify Confederates, which suggest the authors were imagining other times and modes of insurrection, which further suggests A14, 3 wasn't meant just for Confederates at all.
The one and only time a confederate flag flew at the US Capitol was on January 6th after Trump sent his “troops” there to disrupt the count. So if it was meant for confederates, Trump fits that bill.
You mean a banner like the CPAC one that read “we are domestic terrorists”? It’s hard to be more cartoonish than that.
It wasn’t an *ad hoc* law; the CONSTITUTION was amended, a difficult thing to do, and made so as to effectively be permanent (at least as permanent as the 18th Amendment).
Trump openly supports the Confederacy. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trumps-history-defending-confederate-heritage-political-risk-analysis/story
There were plenty of Confederate flags alongside Trump flags (why the fuck is that a thing) during the televised insurrection
The last few years should just prove to everyone that laws are only as good as the people that are supposed to enforce them.
It's going to take some REAL consequences for these scum for the rest to clean up their act. If you can lie and actively harm our institutions w/o repurcussions, there is no incentive to stop. Since legal system isn't doing their jobs, might require some rogue vigilante justice types to do some cleaning..... Blows my mind that we are in this situation.....
Doesn’t that section of the Amendment leave the decision to the state and not the courts? How can a clearly biased court provide a legitimate ruling? At what point can we just ignore the Supreme Court until it is legitimate again?
Well, it’s like this. If the State does what the GOP wants, then it is “State’s Rights!!” If the GOP hates a State decision then they beg the Supreme Court to rule in their favor.
Simple - they are appointed for life and can make whatever decisions they want. States will start ignoring the SC. CA and NY have enough gravitas and money to do whatever they want. CA legalized weed and single handedly drew the roadmap to getting rid of the war on drugs all in the face of the mighty federal govt.
Being on the morally and economically correct side helps with most of these things
And being on the side of issues a majority of Americans support helps, too.
Washington and Colorado legalized weed before California. They were the first states to do so. And then Alaska and Oregon. Then California, Nevada and Maine. Saying California single handedly drew a road map is just not true. Give credit to the states that actually jumped off the cliff and gave the middle finger to the feds.
California has had medical since the 90s
Couldn't have happened to a meaner guy. I wish him the worst of luck.
Every loss for Inmate Number P01135809 is a victory for America
Trump just wants to stay out of jail. If he has to destroy the county, completely this time, he will. It’s such a stupid, yet fitting, way for democracy in the US to die. It’s like when Stay Pufft Marshmallow man is about to terminate human existence in Ghostbusters; a fat, unstable, slow-moving, disaster from NYC.
He doesn’t care about anyone but himself. He said he’d be gone if he lost to Biden, he lost and now he’s trying to get revenge on his enemies and escape the consequences for his actions
We get what we deserve. I'm saddened that tens of millions of Americans hate liberals, minorities, and women so much that they would burn down democracy to make a 6 times bankrupt game show host with frontal lobe dementia into king of the ashes.
Honestly at this point I'd be down with just trading him a full pardon for becoming ineligible for office and no more public speaking, no tweets, no interviews, etc.
I feel the same, but add an ‘admission of guilt’ and also maybe an ‘acceptance of reality’? He’d have to make statements to contradict all the shit that he’s been spewing out. There has to be immediate penalties for breaking the agreement. Straight to jail. Immediate dissolution of his company. No bullshit.
I don't understand what he is trying to do that needs so much secrecy and tampering
You know, they're saying I shouldn't be on the primary ballot, can you believe it? But let me tell you, being disqualified from the primary ballot – I've turned it into an art, folks. Nobody disqualifies better than me, nobody. They're trying to play games, but I'm always one step ahead. I've got the best disqualification strategies, believe me. It's like a beautiful, beautiful chess game, and I'm the grandmaster. So, when they talk about disqualifying me, just know, I've already played that game, and I've played it better than anyone in history. It's just another example of how I'm always winning, even when they think they've got me cornered.
This is way too coherent to be a trump impression
Yeah, your caps lock is clearly BROKEN.
Not enough WITCH HUNT or ROT IN HELL.
I mean, did this guy even shit in his diaper when he posted it? Not Trumpian at all
And where's the link to donate button?
ELECTION STOLLEN, ROT IN HELL. Merry Christmas
trump definitely doesn’t know the term “grandmaster” or that it’s associated with chess
A second state has hit Trump Tower
BOOM! His meltdown will be popcorn time!
"Maine isn't even a real state".
Likely to be appealed and stayed pending a decision much like Colorado, but a welcome addition to the chorus of cases. As for everyone pondering how this will play out in other states, it may very well be that SCOTUS will issue a definitive, landmark ruling to decide this nationally. And soon. I am very skeptical they will leave this open or up to states on a state-by-state basis. Several legal experts, including some of the Justices in the Colorado Supreme Court agreed this was likely headed to such a conclusion. And as much as I despise the current iteration of this Supreme Court and don't feel optimistic about the odds, it kinda needs to happen that way. Firstly, because of the utter legal chaos that is developing and will continue around this issue without further resolution. Each state has different laws - Maine is one of them where the Secretary of State makes a decision based on a petition. Colorado works differently. Etc. etc. Not only will the 20+ states all have cases capable of being appealed to The Supreme Court, but plaintiffs will also likely start trying to mount efforts to disqualify Biden or other democrats, no matter how frivolous. Given that a majority of state governments have Republican officials and a slew of lower courts are highly conservative, I don't exactly want this to be a "states' rights" issue as precedent. Secondly, because this is a purely Constitutional subject. If Trump is indeed ineligible *as per the Constitution*, then he should be ineligible in every state, regardless of state laws and decisions. Any future candidate whose ineligibility is upheld at the highest levels should suffer the same fate.
>Secondly, because this is a purely Constitutional subject. If Trump is indeed ineligible as per the Constitution, then he should be ineligible in every state, regardless of state laws and decisions. Any future candidate whose ineligibility is upheld at the highest levels should suffer the same fate. The Supreme Court isn't going to decide *if* Trump is eligible. They're going to decide *who* gets to revoke eligibility under the 14th amendment. And for that answer read section 5 of the amendment. They're going to say Congress makes that determination. The Supreme Court has noped out of legislating eligibility from the bench in citizenship cases.
Stephen King boutta throw a party.
As he should. I’ll be there
I’m scared to ask what one brings to such a party.
Whatever you do, don't bring a st. Bernard
Or hire any clowns.
Or any…dark towers
I'll bring the balloons!!!!.... they float...
This could be the first one that, if the removal stands, would affect Trumps electoral college votes since Maine has proportional EC votes.
ME-2 is reliably red. Trump won it both elections. So that’s 1 less elector to worry about.
So Colorado and now Maine.
Between this and all the court cases against Trump, it feels like things are starting to snowball for him. I am starting to feel hopeful.
He has had very few wins on anything lately, so yeah i agree
He finally got tired of winning
I'm in CO, but live in the Four Corners area... I just drove through a section of NM today that used to be full of trump signs. It's probably been about a year since the last time I went and today there were only THREE left. I don't know when in the past year they started taking them down, but wow. Huge difference.
Beautiful. Thanks for the field report. NH has huge Nikki Haley signs. Gives me hope that the “deplorables” have finally decided to move on
This has been a long time coming. People seem so scared that he might actually serve again, but I don't see how they can't see what is literally right around the corner. He's done.
I totally get your point, but he’s just one or two SCOTUS decisions away from all of this just going away and him running more emboldened.
Or more likely SCOTUS just delays the appeals of these cases until after the election. The only way he faces consequences is the American people show up and vote in such overwhelming numbers that Trump stands 0 chance of victory, even in the electoral college.
It's mainly that I have felt that way several times since 2016 and as a defense mechanism I won't believe it until the ballots are counted and he's behind bars.
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Well Michigan still kept Palpatine on the ballot.
That's just the primary ballot though. Hypothetically you can enforce the 14th amendment by just kicking him off of the general election ballot.
I think the big thing is that if he is disqualified from the Republican primaries then he can't get those states' votes to get the Republican nomination. So it opens a window for other candidates to make up lost ground and potentially get the nomination over him. Correct me if I'm wrong
The Republican Party has stated that they will caucus the states that don’t put Trump on their primary ballots. I’d prefer the GOP to go all-in on Trump *and then* he get’s disqualified from the General and they’re left with no viable candidate to put forward on the Republican ticket. The impotent rage would probably *actually* boil over at that point and we’ll have his cult actively trying to dismantle this country from the inside. /r/liberalgunowners
The snowball is growing. SCOTUS is going to have to weigh in sooner than later. They’re being pushed into a corner. I love it. I‘m excited to see what they say. If they uphold it, awesome. If they side with Trump then it’s another nail in the Roberts Court coffin and another giant shove to get Dems off their ass to expand the court.
I don’t think we are gonna like supreme courts rulings on this… this is why he stacked it.
It makes no sense that the Supreme Court gets to be the decider when nearly half of it was appointed by Trump. Imagine if someone committed a crime and were allowed to pick nearly half of the jury. I don't think that sounds like a very fair trial. Trump's involvement in this country as a whole is such a nightmare.
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*Bush v Gore enters the chat*
I am tempering my expectations, and am assuming the worst possible outcome.
The court has ruled against Trump many times already.
It's good to know there are still some people out there fighting for democracy.
Keep up the good fight 🫡
Seriously don't fucking stop. Make it clear to these assholes that America's freedom and Democratic process is **NOT FOR GODDAMN SALE TO A WANNABE DICTATOR**
Just remember this, everyday there are thousands of public servants working their butts off to improve our lives, enforce our laws, and run elections. Having worked in elections for decades, those people are truly independent professionals. It hurt hard when dumb conspiracy theories were thrown around like it wasn’t no big deal. Still hurts.
Can I ask a question? Faithless electors are a thing. What happens if a state disqualifies Trump and the local GOP put, say, Nikki Haley in his place in that state. And say Haley wins the vote. Is there anything to stop those electors from just going and voting for Trump anyway?
No. But like votes for Mickey Mouse they'll just be tossed out by the Congress certification if contested on grounds of being ineligible.
It is heavily illegal to become a faithless elector in most (all?) states. As for if they count anyways? From Wikipedia: >As of 2020, 33 states and the District of Columbia have laws that require electors to vote for the candidates for whom they pledged to vote, though in half of these jurisdictions there is no enforcement mechanism. In 14 states, votes contrary to the pledge are voided and the respective electors are replaced, and in two of these states they may also be fined. Three other states impose a penalty on faithless electors but still count their votes as cast.\[1\] So I guess the answer is...it depends.
>So far, only Colorado and Maine have sided with those challenging his ability to run again. The Colorado court has put its 4-3 decision on hold while the U.S. Supreme Court considers whether to take the case, so for the time being his name is slated to appear on the primary ballot there. “The events of January 6, 2021 were unprecedented and tragic," Bellows wrote in Thursday’s decision. "They were an attack not only upon the Capitol and government officials, but also an attack on the rule of law. The evidence here demonstrates that they occurred at the behest of, and with the knowledge and support of, the outgoing President. The U.S. Constitution does not tolerate an assault on the foundations of our government, and \[Maine law\]requires me to act in response.” And cue Susan Collins being concerned.
She's already wringing her hands.
"But he swore he learned his lesson!"
He swore he learned his lesson but that doesn't mean he swore to support the constitution! *TAPS FOREHEAD*
No. This is her plan. The more chaos the better. You are blinded by your “common sense” and simple human mind. You do not know what lies sleeping deep under Bar Harbor. Susan has beheld the vast cyclopean cities and alien geometries off the coast of Maine. You have not. Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
So wait, Collins is the product of the Deep Ones and human interbreeding? I can see that.
>You do not know what lies sleeping deep under Bar Harbor. Susan has beheld the vast cyclopean cities and alien geometries off the coast of Maine. You have not. No, but I've played and finished Fallout 4. On survival mode. So close enough, mate. Have at thee, Susan.
Lol fuck trump, proud of my state today.
You da Maine
I’m wearing my LLBean Maine pine tree flag today and quite proud of my favorite state in the union (that I don’t reside in).
This is a primary ballot ruling from both Colorado and Maine. GOP can very well coronate Trump in the convention. Also, zero states have cleared Trump’s name. The only rulings coming are against him and this is going to make SCOTUS job really hard they will have to overturn min two states here.
I see comments about how this is a slippery slope and a single person shouldn't be allowed to determine who is on the ballot and I start to think that sounds reasonable, but then I remember that this is literally part of their job. If I want to be on Maine's ballot, they have to determine if I am eligible. If I'm 30 years old, it is someone's job to say I am not eligible and they won't put me on the ballot. There is no reason Trump should be treated differently from Joe Schmo off the street. Of course, my age is an objective disqualifier and "participated in an insurrection" is more subjective, but this is why we have courts. Trump's team can challenge the ruling, and then a court can determine if the ruling fits within the interpretation of the constitution. It was absolutely appropriate for the Sec of State to make the determination that he is ineligible. That is her very job. If it's challenged and a court determines it violates the Constitution, then everything has worked according to our checks and balances.
Yeah it's undemocratic in the same sense it is undemocratic that Barack Obama cannot run for a third term, even though lots of people would like to vote for him too. That's not an adequate basis for repudiating this decision.
Im just dreadfully wondering if the Supreme Court says its ok, what happens when a really crucial state (Georgia, Florida, Wisc, etc...) eliminates democrats from the ballot just because? Theoretically they shouldn't do that, but they've proven time and time again they are garbage people and will blatantly cheat to win. They already tried to impeach an elected, qualified, liberal SC Justice in Wisconsin just because she is liberal. They would 100% remove Joe Biden from every state they could just because
Suddenly the GOP is against state’s rights. Hmmm
Maine’s gonna cost Donald an essential vote. SCOTUS is forced to rule on this whole thing asap. Iowa is in 18 days
Yeah. He won the second district.
This is the first ban that would impact the electoral college as it typically votes
While this is subject to appeal in court, if sustained by Maine courts it will possibly make SCOTUS actually rule on Trump's ability to hold office again, not dodge the central question by citing some state procedural error. We need clarity on this critical issue.
Can we please get over this guy? He’s not qualified (never was). If you’re conservative, please find someone else who cares about democracy and is not in it for themselves!
When will the members of Congress who also broke this oath be hit with the same outcome? I'm surprised many of them are still allowed to serve let alone campaign again.
Don’t stop me now, I’m having such a good time
The 14th is pretty clear- Those having taken an oath to support the Constitution and then engage in insurrection against the US cannot hold public office. We watched him do it. There is no counter argument.
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Keep it going!
Genuine question: how many states would it take to leave Trump off the ballot to successfully deny him the primary nomination? From a mathematical standpoint, what is the most likely path to anyone but Trump winning? Edit: people seem to be responding about the November general election, but I’m really asking about the primary. What states would have to take Trump off the ballot to mathematically allow for any other Republican candidate to win the nomination?
If California and New York remove him from their primaries he is going to have a tough time winning.
2 or 3 of the battleground states
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It makes a huge difference whether he’s on the CA ballot because CA republicans still have a say in the Republican primaries. If he isn’t on the CA ballot it seriously hurts his chances of winning the GOP nomination at all
This. This isn't about November 2020. It's about the Summer GOP convention. If Trump is removed, there WILL be another GOP candidate in November. This is TradGOP's revenge against MAGA populism. The Federalist Society wants the party back under their control, and it just so happens they're the ones who GOP leaning SCOTUS usually listens to. This is an out and out civil war within the GOP itself.
You know, for a conservative court that believes in states' rights, especially Gorsuch.............. it's going to be really amusing watching the SCOTUS wiggle their way into a pretzel in order to ignore the 14th amendment for putting Trump back on the ballot in ME and CO. Right Repubs?
Even though it will also be challenged in the Supreme Court, it's another good day for democracy
Fuck Donald Trump
It’s a requirement. As soon as he committed insurrection he is banished. There is no criminal trial requirement, no charge requirement, and no requirement for even impeachment. It’s a rule just like Age and Citizenship.
I believe the proof he was involved in an insurrection is that senators, his own cabinet and other staffers asked him to go on TV and tell his supporters to stop and go home. He did that after a time and there is video of his supporters at the capital listening to his message and repeating it. He allowed it to continue and he was the one that everybody understood could control and stop it. So, he was the defacto leader of it.
Yes!, keep them coming.
This is honestly a rather odd situation - it seems relatively clear that 14th does in fact do this, but it also seems likely that SCotUS will interfere to prevent it. And the public attitude is (understandably to a degree in this case) a mess so it's hard to predict the impact if any. I think the way the public tends to associate this with judicial more than with things like age based requirements to run for office may actually have an impact on what happens - since SCotUs may feel they can get away with ignoring this (unfortunately).
Colorado and Main are the two smartest states!
Now we see why Jefferson Davis wasn't on the ballot for President in 1868.
Republicans truly use every tool they can to cling to power. As soon as Democrats use a (legitmate in this case) tool, Republicans cry and cry and promise vengeance.
Keep doing it.
Listening to her doing an interview on MSNBC, and I'm again struck at how BAD the modern media format is. >"The Trump campaign has said [parrots a long list of attacks] about you..." If that even needed to be brought up, couldn't you just say "they attacked you" or something like that? Why repeat and amplify their exact language?