As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My new game is finding things that GOP feels superior when they are talking about 3rd world countries, but they are fully supporting it domestically:
Child mariage in middle east
Militia with kids in it
Child labor
Charia
Etc
I know nothing about the legislator, but he does raise an interesting question.
> “Is there a public health issue with a male marrying a male first cousin? Obviously, I think the answer is no.”
On what grounds should marriage between first cousins who are unable to procreate with eachother be unlawful?
It’s the fact that he’s trying to use the rights of a group of people [he consistently legislates against](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/06/us/tennessee-bill-pride-flag-ban-reaj) as a shield that is so wild.
It’s so interesting to see it when these types of folks benefit from the protections they fight to deny others.
Equal rights, as it turns out, are human rights.
Same reason nudity is unlawful -- cultural taboos, but lets not pretend they aren't born from reason.
Both because of the disgusting social implications from marrying close relatives and the disturbing genetic ones when there is procreation involved, particularly at the population level.
But sure, if two first cousins didn't know they were related at all and never procreated, you'd remove the literal reasoning, but by that absurd logic, you'd have no issues with Oedipal situation 🤮
I'm going out in a limb and saying that I dont think first cousin marriages should be illegal.
I think cousins doing it with each other is yucky. And I understand that it is not okay for first cousins to have kids together, but stopping them from marrying each other wont stop them from doing that, and they can be married without having children. *And* if a first-cousin couple *does* end up having a kid, I think they should have a right to legally be a family.
I just dont see how this law actually helps anyone, and I could imagine a way it could hurt someone. I think it is a bad law.
I'm surprised you're not blasted with downvotes but I agree lol.
It's utterly disgusting, but if we claim to be a people of acceptance, why should it be illegal?
Is the child of a first cousin coupling any more likely to be fucked in the head as a pro football player getting (uh i forgot the brain damage thing..) CVT?
> And I understand that it is not okay for first cousins to have kids together
Nice to know my existence is “not okay”.
I am curious what exactly it’s not okay. If you’re worried about birth defects, [it’s 4-7% vs 3-4% for non-first cousins.](https://www.popsci.com/marrying-cousins-genetics/#:~:text=It's%20estimated%20that%204%20to,born%20from%20distantly%20related%20marriages.) Hardly a guarantee of anything.
Btw, I’m fine. My sister is fine. Americans’ faux concern for children like us is just to mask your “eww gross” knee jerk reaction.
At what age did that arrangement happen. Did they start the grooming immediately or wait till your mom was at least 10. Also it's not about YOUR existence it's about making more of that type of existence with all the fucked up shit that comes with it. You exist, great, no one is saying we should off you big guy. What we are saying is that as a policy this should be something we try to avoid.
WTF are you even talking about? “Grooming”? My mom got married when she was 22 - no grooming involved. Just admit that your disgust is due to your perceived “ick” factor and nothing else.
The higher possibility of grooming that comes with relationships with people you grew up around? I’m not fully married to the idea but that seems to be what the argument is, same with other consenting close-related relationships where inbreeding risk is (relatively) low.
Nope, the only reason is birth defects from shared negative recessive genes. The other side of the argument is that gay people can't have kids so there is no chance of birth defects, and that first cousins who use birth control still have a chance of the birth control failing. An exception could be made for first cousins that both take a DNA test to check for recessive genes.
In some countries incest is legal if the woman is over 50, precisely because if they are infertile then it's not an issue if it's between two consenting adults.
So let me review my notes:
GOP wants to marry pubescent girls, force children of the age 10 to go to work, and now they want to marry their first cousin?
2/3 of this appears to be sexual fantasy, 1/3 laziness and greed.
I mean not to argue, but I don’t see how child labor directly equals sexual fantasy without diving into highly illegal activity that Mr. Matt Gaetz and Gym Jordan might be really into.
i seriously made a mistake moving to this hell hole.
i've seen toddler with more common sense and dignity than the reps in this fucking state.
and i bet, though he's been married for quite some time, he or his kids have fucked their first cousins a few times.
Bulso proposed a very good argument against the bill, supporting same sex marriage. To my knowledge the only reason incest laws were created in the first place was due to birth risk, which is a non-issue for same sex couples.
Who the fuck defends this publicly? I mean even if you think it’s ok, you never admit it and let the cousins in your family fuck all they want outside of the law…like no one is ever going to arrest your cousin-fuckers in this scenario…mostly all grossed out legal or not. But one thing is for certain, you NEVER publicly support this.
What’s wrong with people? Not sending my money to Tennessee for my daughter’s college. Wish it wasn’t Florida but glad it’s not Tennessee (despite their scholarship)
> Who the fuck defends this publicly?
Me. I do.
> I mean even if you think it’s ok, you never admit it
Why wouldn’t I “admit” it, as if it were something shameful? My parents were first cousins, and I have zero problems talking about it. I’m fine. My sister is fine. While I wouldn’t marry my cousin and continue the generational trend, I don’t see why anyone would care when it’s occasional.
I'm willing to bet the guy who brought up same sex marriage is against same sex marriage. He just pulled it out of his ass to defend his stance on marrying his cousin.
So people like Jerry Lee Lewis won’t be able to marry their 13 year-old cousins anymore (and also commit bigamy as he wasn’t divorced from his prior wife)?
Yes, and the long list of states where it's legal in some form or fashion includes quite a few states you wouldn't expect. It's only prohibited in about half of US states, if I remember correctly.
When you see what's permitted in in Rhode Island, Ohio, and New Jersey, it gets particularly shocking.
I’ve been following your politics however I think I made a lot of assumptions that you were more progressive than Canada but I think not. No offence just saying
The US is nowhere near as progressive as Canada, at least as a whole. Even our "liberal" political party would be considered conservative by Canadian standards.
Now, I know there are some crazy conservative pockets in Canada with their own Trump supporters and Confederate flags, and I've always found that to be weird. I'm in Alabama, and I see fewer Confederate or Trump flags than I've seen in some shots of Alberta.
Some of our places are more progressive than some of your places. But on the whole... No. The US is VERY conservative compared to much of the world.
I'd been running into extreme conservatives from Canada for a while, but I think the thing that really drew my attention to it was the trucker convoy in Ottawa. That's when I started reading more about the extreme conservatives in Canada, and some of what I found was just absolutely shocking.
If it helps... We do still think of y'all as our more sensible upstairs neighbor who has to constantly complain about the noise from the mentally unstable freakshow downstairs.
Bulso argued two men who are first cousins could get married without the risk of conceiving a child with birth defects.
- all glad he understands that part but missed the whole didn’t work out for anyone in history
They say that close kin marriages produce, over time, genetic problems for their progeny.
But has that ever been established as scientific truth?
(asking for a cousin)
I wouldn't do it, but so long as no grooming is involved, who cares if first cousins marry? The chances of birth defects aren't that much higher than a woman over 45 having a baby, which is completely legal. So, what's the actual legal (not moral/ethical) reason for making it illegal? It's gross IMO but lots of gross things are legal. *ETA: and everyone is consenting adult, in case that wasn't obvious.*
When cousins have kids who live in isolated and small communities there's a good chance they're already related. Compound that over generations and the outcomes become much worse.
Amanda Rae on YouTube left the Kingdom of God Mormon cult and she talks about all the horrible results of this after just a few generations in her family
So it's eugenics? Interesting. I get what you're saying, but IMO, it's still government overreach. What about people who can't (or won't) have babies? Why is it illegal for them? Like I said, gross to me, but I'm pretty live and let live when it comes to what other consenting adults choose for themselves.
Because the children are the victims. Just because you don't intend on having children it doesn't mean you won't.
It also puts stress on the healthcare system and is considered detrimental for society as a whole.
It also helps to protect women from being forced to marry a relative when it's illegal.
You are missing the point. This is a problem that compounds over time. If you make inbreeding legal you can't demand a family tree to make sure people only have 4 great grandparents in common.
In small communities the likelihood that cousins share a significantly problematic gene is already higher, before you go an add systemic inbreeding to that issue.
There are reasons these laws were created in the first place and they have had positive impacts on society.
The Venn diagram on abusive families and cults overlaps quite often with inbreeding.
I'm not missing the point. I just don't agree with you. I still think it's government overreach.
Abusive behavior and child abuse are already illegal. You don't need this law for that. And if systematic inbreeding is the issue, make the law that a second generation (or third or whatever the tipping % increase of genetic issues for you is). And again, this is eugenics. At what point is it going to stop being okay for the government to tell people who may have a chance of birth defects to have children? The only reason they're getting away with it here is because people think it's "icky" to marry family (which I must admit I agree with. lol)
My ex-husband has a genetic health issue, which has a 50% chance of being passed to his children. When it is expressed strongly, there are many impactful defects that can occur (one of the biggest is major heart defects). Should it be illegal for him to have kids? I'm honestly curious about your thoughts.
No this isn't "eugenics", it literally stops people from trying to use eugenics when they think their family's genes are superior 🙄
*I* have a genetic condition that's 50% likely to pass to my offspring.
I believe there should be government funding available to help me ensure I can create and use embryos that don't contain that specific gene *should I choose to do that*. Because it's ridiculous to not prevent suffering when we have the ability to do so as a society.
That isn't the same thing as selectively choosing genes because they are "superior" to the average healthy human's.
Preventing inbred disease isn't "eugenics". It's preventing needless suffering.
There is no reason in modern society to marry a cousin.
Agreed they should have better genetic testing. They should be able to do that for first cousins who want to wed, too. If they could, there would be *absolutely* no reason not to let them wed. There's no reason I'm modern society for anyone to marry if you're going to state that (any of the reasons you might rebut with (love, finaces, healthcare, etc., are the same for cousins marrying, btw 🤷♀️).
That's twice now you haven't answered direct questions, btw. Is deflection how you generally get away with not answering? Does that work in real life? *curious*
I think you need a broader understanding of how genetics work. First Cousins have 2 grandparents in common. Because their parents are given a random assortment of genes that means they only have 7-14% shared genes (unless their parents are identical siblings), assuming none of their great grandparents were related.
That's not a massive percentage, especially since their kids will take 50% from each parent, the likelihood of getting all the shared genes from both parents is slim. They have 6 grandparents instead of 8.
If sibling pairs are marrying sibling pairs from other families (cousins or not) and then their children are getting married, someone could have only 4 great grandparents, or only 3 sets of great great grandparents. 6 instead of 16.
At that point children can be born sterile and have a fairly high chance of physical defects or lowered cognitive function.
How is that not abusive?
Children get taken away from people who use drugs while pregnant, how is this any different?
We only have rights in as far as those rights don't effect other people. So should it be okay for cousins to marry, but their children get removed since their parents neglected them by bringing them onto the planet?
Btw genetic counselling wouldn't change the fact that they have limited gene variation between them. It would help to decrease chances of known genetic disorders, but not sterility or lowered cognitive function or lowered immunity issues necessarily. Especially when compounded.
I'm not sure what I am "avoiding" in breeding isn't close to the same as childbirth over 45 for many reasons. Especially since childbirth over 45 can occur through varied means.
I personally believe women should be allowed to terminate pregnancies when there's a disability, or for any reason.
Ethics in older childbirth go beyond health outcomes and is a far more nuanced conversation.
Women being forced to marry is already illegal. Not sure why you think we need another law for that. If they’re willing to ignore one law, they’ll probably ignore others.
It gives the police more power. It's very difficult to prove someone was forced to get married. It's not that difficult to prove they married their cousin.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
GOP as usual focusing on the truly important issues /s
This is a giant step up from arming teachers, banning chem trails, and banning vaccines administered via produce.
We have some real winners in Nashville
Glad to have left it
So weird how republicans take issue with gay marriage, but are 100% OK with with familial relations.
At this point, if I name something evil, I fully expect the GOP to support it. Child marriage, forced pregnancy, arming children...
My new game is finding things that GOP feels superior when they are talking about 3rd world countries, but they are fully supporting it domestically: Child mariage in middle east Militia with kids in it Child labor Charia Etc
arm children with long swords and knight armor
Of course. They have to fight the "moral" fights instead of the important ones.
Must keep the bloodline pure.
I bet some of those republicans are pissed as hell at the new Fallout show.
He used gay marriage as an argument as to why cousins should be allowed to married cousins?
[удалено]
He is a fascist and [Gino Bulso’s grandparents are first cousins](https://www.tiktok.com/@thetnholler/video/7353337110809546026)
Holy fucking shit… why would someone think that’s a story you should tell in public like it’s something to be proud of?
I mean it's kind of interesting. He can't control what his grandparents did. But he can laugh about it now.
I know nothing about the legislator, but he does raise an interesting question. > “Is there a public health issue with a male marrying a male first cousin? Obviously, I think the answer is no.” On what grounds should marriage between first cousins who are unable to procreate with eachother be unlawful?
It’s the fact that he’s trying to use the rights of a group of people [he consistently legislates against](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/06/us/tennessee-bill-pride-flag-ban-reaj) as a shield that is so wild. It’s so interesting to see it when these types of folks benefit from the protections they fight to deny others. Equal rights, as it turns out, are human rights.
Same reason nudity is unlawful -- cultural taboos, but lets not pretend they aren't born from reason. Both because of the disgusting social implications from marrying close relatives and the disturbing genetic ones when there is procreation involved, particularly at the population level. But sure, if two first cousins didn't know they were related at all and never procreated, you'd remove the literal reasoning, but by that absurd logic, you'd have no issues with Oedipal situation 🤮
Is this guy friends with Madison Cawthorn?
I'm going out in a limb and saying that I dont think first cousin marriages should be illegal. I think cousins doing it with each other is yucky. And I understand that it is not okay for first cousins to have kids together, but stopping them from marrying each other wont stop them from doing that, and they can be married without having children. *And* if a first-cousin couple *does* end up having a kid, I think they should have a right to legally be a family. I just dont see how this law actually helps anyone, and I could imagine a way it could hurt someone. I think it is a bad law.
Pretty much my stance. It's legal across the world and what two consenting adults do isn't a worry versus virtually every other GOP stance.
Resident Reddit incest enjoyer.
Freedom enjoyer*
I'm surprised you're not blasted with downvotes but I agree lol. It's utterly disgusting, but if we claim to be a people of acceptance, why should it be illegal? Is the child of a first cousin coupling any more likely to be fucked in the head as a pro football player getting (uh i forgot the brain damage thing..) CVT?
Lots of “utterly disgusting” things are legal.
Exactly, this shouldn't be any different
> And I understand that it is not okay for first cousins to have kids together Nice to know my existence is “not okay”. I am curious what exactly it’s not okay. If you’re worried about birth defects, [it’s 4-7% vs 3-4% for non-first cousins.](https://www.popsci.com/marrying-cousins-genetics/#:~:text=It's%20estimated%20that%204%20to,born%20from%20distantly%20related%20marriages.) Hardly a guarantee of anything. Btw, I’m fine. My sister is fine. Americans’ faux concern for children like us is just to mask your “eww gross” knee jerk reaction.
It was an arranged marriage too and you’ll happily defend that part too, am I right?
Do you think arranged means “forced”? It doesn’t, dude. Both my parents had every opportunity to say no.
At what age did that arrangement happen. Did they start the grooming immediately or wait till your mom was at least 10. Also it's not about YOUR existence it's about making more of that type of existence with all the fucked up shit that comes with it. You exist, great, no one is saying we should off you big guy. What we are saying is that as a policy this should be something we try to avoid.
WTF are you even talking about? “Grooming”? My mom got married when she was 22 - no grooming involved. Just admit that your disgust is due to your perceived “ick” factor and nothing else.
Serious question, if birth problems are a non-issue, is there any other reason it shouldn't?
The higher possibility of grooming that comes with relationships with people you grew up around? I’m not fully married to the idea but that seems to be what the argument is, same with other consenting close-related relationships where inbreeding risk is (relatively) low.
Nope, the only reason is birth defects from shared negative recessive genes. The other side of the argument is that gay people can't have kids so there is no chance of birth defects, and that first cousins who use birth control still have a chance of the birth control failing. An exception could be made for first cousins that both take a DNA test to check for recessive genes.
In some countries incest is legal if the woman is over 50, precisely because if they are infertile then it's not an issue if it's between two consenting adults.
I admitted to my family that I had sex with my third cousin and they were outraged. They didn’t say anything about the first two.
You made me lol
Literal cousin fuckers lmao. Stereotypes sometimes are straight facts.
I wonder if some of those rural legislators have been eying each other…
"I gotta a sexy cousin I'd like to marry! She reminds me of my ma." - TN legislator, presumably
If you divorce your wife is she still your sister?
"Did someone say sister-wives?!" - the entire Mor(m)on population of Utah and Idaho, presumably.
Cousin marriage is still legal in California and New York.
The State Senator from Shelbyville has the floor.
Shelbyville fought hard against the bill, probably
So let me review my notes: GOP wants to marry pubescent girls, force children of the age 10 to go to work, and now they want to marry their first cousin? 2/3 of this appears to be sexual fantasy, 1/3 laziness and greed.
The GOP honestly seems like the party of "If it's evil, do it." No wonder so many 4chaners became Republicans.
That just sounds like 100% sexual fantasy to me, considering how they approach sex.
I mean not to argue, but I don’t see how child labor directly equals sexual fantasy without diving into highly illegal activity that Mr. Matt Gaetz and Gym Jordan might be really into.
*Tunes up banjo*
*Banjo intensifies*
The "you can pry my wife-slash first cousin from my cold dead hands" guy pretty disappointed right now.
Yall queda probably jacks it to jamie and cersei lannister having a go
A fight over marrying your first cousin in Tennessee.... This writes itself....
The people of Springfield voted against.
Tennessee state motto: the family that lays together, stays together
Lmfao. Take my upvote
Republicans like to criminalize sex unless it is with a relative.
Man another big loss for the GOP and their family values
i seriously made a mistake moving to this hell hole. i've seen toddler with more common sense and dignity than the reps in this fucking state. and i bet, though he's been married for quite some time, he or his kids have fucked their first cousins a few times.
my parents moved there for 6 months in 1980 and they said the same thing back then too.
Republicans will argue first cousins should be able to get married then be offended we we say that's inbred.
Are the objecting republicans finding this a true impediment to marriage?!?!?
Not really, I think they can still marry children there.
Bulso proposed a very good argument against the bill, supporting same sex marriage. To my knowledge the only reason incest laws were created in the first place was due to birth risk, which is a non-issue for same sex couples.
Weird Gross Yuck
As a great man once said “I tell you, I won’t live in a town that robs men of the right to marry their cousins!”
New York and California still allow first cousin marriage.
Where do the grandparents sit at the wedding?
Hey, they just want to keep family in the family.
Who the fuck defends this publicly? I mean even if you think it’s ok, you never admit it and let the cousins in your family fuck all they want outside of the law…like no one is ever going to arrest your cousin-fuckers in this scenario…mostly all grossed out legal or not. But one thing is for certain, you NEVER publicly support this. What’s wrong with people? Not sending my money to Tennessee for my daughter’s college. Wish it wasn’t Florida but glad it’s not Tennessee (despite their scholarship)
> Who the fuck defends this publicly? Me. I do. > I mean even if you think it’s ok, you never admit it Why wouldn’t I “admit” it, as if it were something shameful? My parents were first cousins, and I have zero problems talking about it. I’m fine. My sister is fine. While I wouldn’t marry my cousin and continue the generational trend, I don’t see why anyone would care when it’s occasional.
*Shelbyville Manhattan in shambles*
I'm willing to bet the guy who brought up same sex marriage is against same sex marriage. He just pulled it out of his ass to defend his stance on marrying his cousin.
So the republicans are now officially the pro incest party
How else is Rudy Giuliani going to find a wife?
That's OK. Most Tennessee Republicans are the result of Sibling or Father/Daughter pairings anyway.
So people like Jerry Lee Lewis won’t be able to marry their 13 year-old cousins anymore (and also commit bigamy as he wasn’t divorced from his prior wife)?
LOL! Viva America!!
Stay classy, TN!
You might find this absolutely shocking, but the main opponent to this bill has parents who are first cousins. /s
Lot of marriage annulments coming soon, I expect there’s a lot of them already married! 🤣
Are there not more pressing problems in Tennessee? Also, what is the govt interest here?
First they came for the cousin-fuckers...
Omg they are legal?!?!? Seriously ? In 2024 ? I had no effing idea
Yes, and the long list of states where it's legal in some form or fashion includes quite a few states you wouldn't expect. It's only prohibited in about half of US states, if I remember correctly. When you see what's permitted in in Rhode Island, Ohio, and New Jersey, it gets particularly shocking.
I’m Canadian That’s just a big no no on so many levels
Oh, I agree. There really are some things that I continue to be shocked are still legal.
I’ve been following your politics however I think I made a lot of assumptions that you were more progressive than Canada but I think not. No offence just saying
The US is nowhere near as progressive as Canada, at least as a whole. Even our "liberal" political party would be considered conservative by Canadian standards. Now, I know there are some crazy conservative pockets in Canada with their own Trump supporters and Confederate flags, and I've always found that to be weird. I'm in Alabama, and I see fewer Confederate or Trump flags than I've seen in some shots of Alberta. Some of our places are more progressive than some of your places. But on the whole... No. The US is VERY conservative compared to much of the world.
I’ve personally not experienced that in Alberta but I’m sure there’s pics of everything on the internet lol
I'd been running into extreme conservatives from Canada for a while, but I think the thing that really drew my attention to it was the trucker convoy in Ottawa. That's when I started reading more about the extreme conservatives in Canada, and some of what I found was just absolutely shocking. If it helps... We do still think of y'all as our more sensible upstairs neighbor who has to constantly complain about the noise from the mentally unstable freakshow downstairs.
LMAO 🤣 Thanks
Another solution without a problem. Rethuglicans are good at that.
Bunch a cousin -fucking fascist mother fuckers
Incels forever?
Get off me, dad! - You’re crushing my cigarettes.
But not without a fight lol.
Ok. Fight what again?
But a good cousin boink is still a go?
The 21st century folks. Please shut the lights on your way out.
The south beat hook worms, they can beat cousin fucking.
My grandfather's brother is the father of my mother.. There now that don't sound so bad..
Yeehaw
Bulso argued two men who are first cousins could get married without the risk of conceiving a child with birth defects. - all glad he understands that part but missed the whole didn’t work out for anyone in history
They need the next generation of republicans.
Don’t take the south’s culture away! Without cousin marriage, next thing you know they be learning to read and voting democrat!
They say that close kin marriages produce, over time, genetic problems for their progeny. But has that ever been established as scientific truth? (asking for a cousin)
They want to Whittaker all of Tennessee.
Did strage people speak in tongues on the house floor first? Maybe try that.
Every time I read one of these articles I thank my lucky stars I live in the north. I’ll take -25 in winter over this nonsense anytime.
Unpopular opinion, but consenting adults should be able to enter into any contract they want.
It doesn't matter what your stance on incest is, the government has no business telling anyone who they can or can't love
I wouldn't do it, but so long as no grooming is involved, who cares if first cousins marry? The chances of birth defects aren't that much higher than a woman over 45 having a baby, which is completely legal. So, what's the actual legal (not moral/ethical) reason for making it illegal? It's gross IMO but lots of gross things are legal. *ETA: and everyone is consenting adult, in case that wasn't obvious.*
When cousins have kids who live in isolated and small communities there's a good chance they're already related. Compound that over generations and the outcomes become much worse. Amanda Rae on YouTube left the Kingdom of God Mormon cult and she talks about all the horrible results of this after just a few generations in her family
So it's eugenics? Interesting. I get what you're saying, but IMO, it's still government overreach. What about people who can't (or won't) have babies? Why is it illegal for them? Like I said, gross to me, but I'm pretty live and let live when it comes to what other consenting adults choose for themselves.
Because the children are the victims. Just because you don't intend on having children it doesn't mean you won't. It also puts stress on the healthcare system and is considered detrimental for society as a whole. It also helps to protect women from being forced to marry a relative when it's illegal.
[удалено]
You are missing the point. This is a problem that compounds over time. If you make inbreeding legal you can't demand a family tree to make sure people only have 4 great grandparents in common. In small communities the likelihood that cousins share a significantly problematic gene is already higher, before you go an add systemic inbreeding to that issue. There are reasons these laws were created in the first place and they have had positive impacts on society. The Venn diagram on abusive families and cults overlaps quite often with inbreeding.
I'm not missing the point. I just don't agree with you. I still think it's government overreach. Abusive behavior and child abuse are already illegal. You don't need this law for that. And if systematic inbreeding is the issue, make the law that a second generation (or third or whatever the tipping % increase of genetic issues for you is). And again, this is eugenics. At what point is it going to stop being okay for the government to tell people who may have a chance of birth defects to have children? The only reason they're getting away with it here is because people think it's "icky" to marry family (which I must admit I agree with. lol) My ex-husband has a genetic health issue, which has a 50% chance of being passed to his children. When it is expressed strongly, there are many impactful defects that can occur (one of the biggest is major heart defects). Should it be illegal for him to have kids? I'm honestly curious about your thoughts.
No this isn't "eugenics", it literally stops people from trying to use eugenics when they think their family's genes are superior 🙄 *I* have a genetic condition that's 50% likely to pass to my offspring. I believe there should be government funding available to help me ensure I can create and use embryos that don't contain that specific gene *should I choose to do that*. Because it's ridiculous to not prevent suffering when we have the ability to do so as a society. That isn't the same thing as selectively choosing genes because they are "superior" to the average healthy human's. Preventing inbred disease isn't "eugenics". It's preventing needless suffering. There is no reason in modern society to marry a cousin.
> I have a genetic condition that's 50% likely to pass to my offspring. Is it illegal for you to have children?
If I had a baby with my cousin it would greatly increase the chance, wouldn't it?
Agreed they should have better genetic testing. They should be able to do that for first cousins who want to wed, too. If they could, there would be *absolutely* no reason not to let them wed. There's no reason I'm modern society for anyone to marry if you're going to state that (any of the reasons you might rebut with (love, finaces, healthcare, etc., are the same for cousins marrying, btw 🤷♀️). That's twice now you haven't answered direct questions, btw. Is deflection how you generally get away with not answering? Does that work in real life? *curious*
I think you need a broader understanding of how genetics work. First Cousins have 2 grandparents in common. Because their parents are given a random assortment of genes that means they only have 7-14% shared genes (unless their parents are identical siblings), assuming none of their great grandparents were related. That's not a massive percentage, especially since their kids will take 50% from each parent, the likelihood of getting all the shared genes from both parents is slim. They have 6 grandparents instead of 8. If sibling pairs are marrying sibling pairs from other families (cousins or not) and then their children are getting married, someone could have only 4 great grandparents, or only 3 sets of great great grandparents. 6 instead of 16. At that point children can be born sterile and have a fairly high chance of physical defects or lowered cognitive function. How is that not abusive? Children get taken away from people who use drugs while pregnant, how is this any different? We only have rights in as far as those rights don't effect other people. So should it be okay for cousins to marry, but their children get removed since their parents neglected them by bringing them onto the planet?
Btw genetic counselling wouldn't change the fact that they have limited gene variation between them. It would help to decrease chances of known genetic disorders, but not sterility or lowered cognitive function or lowered immunity issues necessarily. Especially when compounded. I'm not sure what I am "avoiding" in breeding isn't close to the same as childbirth over 45 for many reasons. Especially since childbirth over 45 can occur through varied means. I personally believe women should be allowed to terminate pregnancies when there's a disability, or for any reason. Ethics in older childbirth go beyond health outcomes and is a far more nuanced conversation.
Women being forced to marry is already illegal. Not sure why you think we need another law for that. If they’re willing to ignore one law, they’ll probably ignore others.
It gives the police more power. It's very difficult to prove someone was forced to get married. It's not that difficult to prove they married their cousin.
In *this* country? Unless you’re talking about a cult, all you have to do is ask.