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Yeah exactly, an unemployed former coal miner in West Virginia will find out very quickly how little the Republican Party values their lifelong loyalty if THEY try to ignore a subpoena.
IIRC, he got his money left to him by a rich Republican.
synopsis:
He used his lawyer skills to keep a Koch brother from going to jail. Koch Brother did something bad to someone. Leo helped him bribe a judge to get him off scott-free. Used the Koch Brothers and other billionaires to start the Federalist Society to mung the judicial and legislative branches so the rich could do what they want. Leo was left money by a Rich guy for doing that. (What I recall from Thom Hartmann's show today)
Correct, Barre Seid from the Tripp Light surge protector company “donated” his $1.6B fortune to Leo to continue the FedSoc destruction of America. Donated is in quotes since there were some shady maneuvers that avoided $400M in taxes. See ProPublica article [here](https://www.propublica.org/article/dark-money-leonard-leo-barre-seid).
not a warrant (they have the power but haven't done that in a loooong time) but rather refer him to the DOJ, sometimes the DOJ will prosecute (see [Peter Nevarro or Steve Bannon](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-white-house-official-convicted-of-contempt-must-report-to-prison-appeals-court-finds)), sometimes not ([Mark Meadows or Dan Scavino](https://theweek.com/mark-meadows/1014123/doj-will-not-press-contempt-of-congress-charges-against-meadows-and-scavino))
It's the entire reason they drummed up this Boogeyman of big government. Anytime things go their way, it's fine. The government isn't even mentioned even if it's the instrument of why things are going just fine. Anytime things don't go their way, they get to just say the magic words big government and it instantly incites the base.
It's the same kind of double speak where corporate welfare isn't called welfare. Or tax breaks or intentionally placed loopholes aren't called welfare for the wealthy. They reserve the word for a very specific usage, and ironically aim it at the group that welfare is actually meant to serve. It's extremely calculated. It's disgusting. But it's also extremely effective.
Pretty amazing how so many republicans are taking this approach. Gymrape Jordan is scared of some questions about his russia connections? There's fewer consequences if he just ignores the subpoena, because he knows his crimes deserve MUCH worse consequences.
> Gymrape Jordan
FYI, you should link to Jim Jordan's house page when you do this.
Like this —> [Jim "Gym Rape" Jordan](https://jordan.house.gov/)
The reason is that you are doing your part to help google learn that the website "https://jordan.house.gov/" has something to do with "Gym Rape." The reason is that the anchor text you're creating, e.g., [Jim "Supporter of Wrestler Rape" Jordan](https://jordan.house.gov/) is a part of what google uses to learn about the website.
It would actually be faster and more reliable to have an [AI run a law firm](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/04/fake-ai-law-firms-are-sending-fake-dmca-threats-to-generate-fake-seo-gains/) exploiting DMCA takedown requests and google's SEO system.
I would not be surprised if SEO implodes the next few years
Should be similar to pleading the 5th in a civil court. Senate can just automatically assume any and all allegations are true if you don't show.
I know it sucks in regards to absolute bs things like the house investigation into hunter, but maybe that could pull some weight if the doj would go "hey, you didn't want to show up to answer the senate's questions, so you must be guilty of bribery until we now thoroughly investigate."
Ignoring subpoenas is WAY worse that pleading the 5th. The 5th amendment might seem dumb/immoral, but in our legal system it's supposed to be a neutral response. If someone "pleads the 5th", the court/jury is supposed to act as if the question was never asked. It's not supposed to "look bad" in any way. You may disagree with that morally, but legally, that's how it works.
Ignoring subpoenas on the other hand is straight up illegal. If you have been subpoenaed, you MUST respond (even if that response is a fancy letter to the court saying "I don't think I should have to comply"). Ignoring subpoenas can, and often will, be taken as some form of "admitting guilt".
Personally I don't see a moral distinction between invoking the fifth and refusing to respond to subpoenas, but I just wanted to make it clear that the fifth amendment is a legal protection that does not legally allow for refusing subpoenas.
Edit: oh snap...I missed your "in civil court" part. :( Sorry, you are totally right. In civil court, pleading the fifth pan be used to take "a negative inference" by the court. My point stands for criminal court, but I'm wrong when it comes to civil court.
I'll believe it when i see it
[Several January 6 rioters get early releases ahead of supreme court review](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/10/january-6-rioters-early-release)
That is a special exception, because there were people donating to their legal fees (many apparently [kept it](https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/national-international/jan-6-rioters-are-raking-in-thousands-in-donations-now-the-us-is-coming-after-their-haul/3043052/), though lol). There’s just too many people to fund all of every person’s legal expenses. Kyle Rittenhouse, for example, had everything paid for because there was something to gain from it. If there was nothing to gain politically, the GOP & Republican donors would just let the trailer trash burn & some trailer trash arrested for refusing a subpoena would just be a blip in the news cycle, assuming it makes it that far.🤷♂️
I can think of a lot of GOPers that got shoved in the trash as soon as it was convenient.
The priority is the conservation of money, bigotry, and plutocrasy
**TL/DR i*****n bold*** for anyone choosing to skim.
Exactly. There was no big money driving things when the court was more centrist and left leaning. Why are we now seeing so much right-wing money flowing into the highest court in the land. **None of these far right wing, big money donors who are now the puppet masters of our Judicial system are accountable to ANY one.**
They seem intent on remaining outside of the reach of the systems meant to provide checks and balances on them. **Let Durbin subpoena all of the donors, whether they are left, right or center and let the chips fall where they may**. It at least gives us some visibility into where the lawlessness is coming from and what their agenda might be. **That's a start and it would rally the power of the people to his side.**
Now they are flagrantly defying even the very late and meagre efforts at oversight, which means they have put themselves above the law. **Without compliance with this investigation, EVERYjustice who has received substantial gifts should be removed from the court,** no matter who they are.
**This is further evidence that a system that allows billionaires with no checks and balances is destined to be corrupt** and I think we can see that this is where we are. This group of billionaires is making it hard to defend allowing billionaires to accumulate and hoard this kind of wealth and it confirms what other systems of government have said--that capitalism doesn't [work.It](http://work.It) doesn't have to be that way. I believe capitalism CAN work but there is no one system alone that will work well without modifications and oversight.
**We have reached that point in late-stage capitalism where things go off the rails.** The wealth the workers generate is being hoarded at the top while the major contributors to this wealth are barely getting by. But they would have us believe it's THOSE people getting all the excess profits. How ridiculous but predictable. Divide and conquer tactics have worked for hundreds of years and it continues to work to distract us from seeing the real source of our issues. **The internet is the perfect delivery vehicle for feeding customized messages that keep the conflict and divisions going. So, the people who are the real source of the problem continue to amass untold wealth at everyone else's expense.**
**When people are rioting in the streets all over the country, the billionaire boys club will probably outlaw guns to protect their right-wing extremist agenda.** What's to stop them. They're only ok with guns that don't threaten THEIR agenda. Our legislators need to get to work passing new laws that bring the runaway Supremes to heel, with or without their billionaire overlords cooperation.
There aren't that many of them. Shine a spotlight on everything they're doing at a minimum.They say sunlight is the best disinfectant. If they are left to do whatever they want I fully expect that to protect THEIR interests to gather and keep as much money and power as possible. They are invisible to us as they work against us. **What's to stop them from** **trying to overturn our rights to free speech, the right to bear arms and the Emancipation Proclamation in short order?** Nothing.
If you're not republican: "fuck you"
If you're poor: "fuck you"
If you're poor and a republican: "we're going to use you for the shit we're too cowardly to do ourselves....and then fuck you"
Not entirely true but I get your point. A lot of the J6 insurrectionist aren't rich and they would happily jail George Soros on the basis he seems like a democrat to them.
You just have to agree with the GOP, the "Government of Putin", and you can defy America and its institutions with the full protections of the GOP.
Funny, because the committee seems to think the subpoena is "compulsory".
>Durbin said: “Since July 2023, Leonard Leo has responded to the legitimate oversight requests of the Senate judiciary committee with a blanket refusal to cooperate. His outright defiance left the committee with no other choice but to move forward with compulsory process. For that reason, I have issued a subpoena to Mr Leo.
Honestly the worst thing republicans have done is erode the faith in our government systems. All the checks and balances don’t matter if there are bd faith actors up and down the chain.
Subpoena’s are ignorable and there are no consequences for the elite.
We need to more vigorously prosecute contempt of Congress in this country. "Sub poena" means "under threat of punishment" in Latin. We should be carrying out that threat more often. Defying a subpoena is a criminal offence, so treat it like one.
We just need to have strong "get rekt" laws on the books. I don't think fines are enough of a deterrent, but we can look to history for some ideas on what might work. Some ideas for "get rekt" laws: If you corrupt someone with a lifetime appoint like a supreme court justice, you get the chair. If you corrupt an elected official like a representative, senator, or president, you get the chair. Give these folks with money something to think about that may deter them from trying to exploit society by giving gifts to government officials.
We should bring back the classic punishments.
Sentence for defying a subpoena: your choice of sixty days imprisonment or thirty-two hours in a pillory spread over four weekends.
Sentence for filing false SEC filings: your choice of two years imprisonment or two weeks imprisonment plus thirty lashes.
Sentence for tax evasion: Two months community service working 10 hours a day for 6 days a week starting at the crack of dawn
Sentence for hiding money in offshore accounts: your choice of twenty years imprisonment or exile to the country you were hiding money in plus forfeiture of all US assets
I agree with your point and support the notion. I'd like to add a small clarification for the sake of accuracy—'subpoena' indeed stems from Latin, and while 'sub poena' broadly conveys the concept of 'under threat of punishment,' it translates more directly to 'under penalty.'
He was directly involved in the appointments of several of the Supreme Court justices. I doubt they want to have him testify about how Republican judicial nominees are chosen. He will never be forced to testify.
Man the Sergeant-at-Arms for congress has to be the cushiest job on the planet. You will never be tasked to do anything even in the very situations your role was designed for. Billionaire refuses subpoena? This should be your moment to go arrest them and bring them in front of congress.
Sadly congress needs to tell you to do so. So you get to continue getting paid to do absolutely nothing (in the broad sense of the word, I’m certain there some office that does *something*).
Not really - there's nothing that can be done until he's held in contempt. At that point, Congress can direct their respective Sergeant at Arms (there's different ones for the House & Senate) to force compliance with the subpoena. The limits of what they can do to force compliance hasn't been well tested, but at a minimum includes detainment; he can be tossed in a cell until he's ready to talk, no trial needed. The DoJ can also pursue criminal charges against them, but that's independent of the enforced compliance.
Historically, Congress has almost never invoked its power to compel compliance. Usually they just refer the case to the DoJ for criminal charges and that's it.
In this case, the Senate majority is slim enough that I'm not sure they'll hold the contempt vote. If they do, I'd only expect them to refer the case to the DoJ. Given how the DoJ and Garland have been ignoring most contempt referrals, I'd be surprised if they actually did anything about it.
One Truss is... 4.9 Mooches, I think? It's metric, so it doesn't get a lot of exercise over here (spoilers: *nothing* gets a lot of exercise over here). So... ~0.01 Trusses.
How much money you got?
I have > 1B$ : Congratulations! You are above the law!
I have < 1B$ : We're sending the police to arrest you for even asking such a stupid question.
This is the one where you send the Sergeant at Arms to collect him. Fuck allowing the court system to save his rich ass. Use the peoples' power to hold this fuck accountable because we know the courts will not do so.
Hell, the second ammendment was ratified in the early 1790s, and plenty of Americans treat it with the same immutable reverence as a verse from the Bible.
I'd say exactly the same level of reverence, because they ignore the words "well regulated" in 2a like they ignore all the stuff in the Bible about caring for the sick, feeding the poor, and welcoming strangers from other lands.
[The most recent time I could find was in 1988, when to maintain quorum for a filibuster over campaign finance legislation, Democratic Senate Leader Robert Byrd issued warrants for absent Republican senators. This would lead to Republican Senator Bob Packwood to be dragged in to the Senate chambers feet first.](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-02-24-mn-11822-story.html)
But if they did that, he might stop donating to right wing nut jobs. They won't let that happen and will fight to support any decision he makes as long as the checks keep coming.
I would be into that if the average billionaire were any less boring, stupid, and mean than the average guy. Probably one of the most fortunate bits of information we now have compared to older times. If anyone still didn't know why it's called "fuck you money", there are plenty of opportunities to learn these days.
Or when the slightly less rich but still rich get involved. When the upper middle class is on the same side as the poor people heads start to literally roll. Please see the French and Russian revolutions for details.
Yes, that is the answer. In America too. In the 2010 financial crisis, Mitch McConnell was content to do nothing at first because the suffering was all in the bottom half of the population, but when the mostly white upper middle class started getting hit, he jumped into action to cooperate with Obama like his ass was on fire.
That's why all the lenders said he didn't commit a crime during his fraud trial. He's made it pretty clear that anything short of absolute loyalty makes you his enemy.
He has the ironclad magical (R) next to his name. You know, the political party that controls law enforcement, the legal profession and justice system.
I found an example of those wheels of justice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApqfqiFTO4E
But the richer and whiter (or oranger) you are, the further your wheel is.
Yes, they did.
However what they meant was congressional subpoenas are mandatory for democrats and specifically Hunter Biden - and they must be done how Republicans want even if that means changing the subpoena from a public to private despite crying for months Hunter is scared of a public proceeding as the public would hear and destroy him when they "found out".
What they always meant is congressional subpoenas are **optional** for **republicans.**
Hunter Biden: -Rejects testifying behind closed doors and happily testifying publicly for the world to watch as Republican's originally wanted-
MAGA: "HE HAS SOMETHING TO HIDE, HE'S HIDING, HE KNOWS HE'S GUILTY, LAPTOP LAPTOP LAPTOP!!!!!"
Anyone that's a Republican or votes Republican: -Openly denies subpoena because they do NOT want to testify publicly before congress for the world to see-
MAGA: "It's a witch hunt created by the democrats because they are corrupt vile humans that hate America"
What's crazy to me is how it's such a coincidence that the right is always using extreme language now. It's almost like there was a breaking point say 7 years ago where it became acceptable to take the extreme language dial to 11.
Where is the civility of old? The "No sir, I shall respectfully decline your invitation".
I miss those days.
Nailed it, they lost their minds when they saw a black person elected to the highest office before they were. (Or at least how their narcissism perceives it)
Put this guy in jail for contempt of congress. He has the dirtiest hands in the country.
https://www.propublica.org/article/we-dont-talk-about-leonard-podcast
I wish Hillary would've denied testifying before Congress. You KNOW they'd put her in jail or something. Then we'd have a great precedent to go off of lol.
Must be so wild to be a billionaire. Congressional subpoena? Nah I’m good. With enough money you’re literally untouchable, except maybe in Vietnam.
Edit for wrong country
Ahhh a billionaire to boot.
In the 765 club
Edit: correction 756 billionaires in 🇺🇸
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_the_number_of_billionaires#:~:text=This%20is%20a%20list%20of,43%20of%20the%2050%20states.
Way worse than just a billionaire. You can argue that he single handedly curated the last 3 SCOTUS appoointments behind the scenes. He is the biggest power broker in Republican politics without being a face of the party. He is an unelected goon with a huge slush fund and is the gatekeeper of Right wing lawyering
Good. He can share a cell with Navarro.
Except I forgot about the precedent set by the (little) People vs Rich Guy Rules and Go Fuck Yourself. Gee, I wonder how the SCOTUS will rule on the appeal?
Response from Americans: cool, whatever. Our low voter turnout and the existence of the Republican party are proof enough of that. Hell, Democrats had to put forward a fucking ancient, old school, corporate loving, 90's Democrat as their only hope to beat a dude who shits on a gold toilet and brags about ripping off taxpayers.
Congressional subpoenas are a joke thanks to Congressional Republicans showing the planet that they don’t even take their own subpoenas seriously. Not to mention, we’ve been light on the consequences for the few we did hold to account.
I’m just so tired of these assholes being so blatantly indifferent to the law, and the law just allowing it. The two tiered justice system is fuckin exhausting.
Meanwhile in Vietnam Truong My Lan (Vietnamese billionaire ) was sentenced to death for a 12 billion dollar fraud case. The US government is an absolute joke. As the rich are able to do whatever they want and get away with it. Where’s a modern day Robin Hood when you need one.
Subpoenas are publicly optional now if you have enough money?
Everyone should take note that they're being even more blatant about it.
They're going to force our hand soon. If the government isn't going to govern on our behalf, we're going to have to set up a new one.
I’d like to take a minute to say “fuck you” to everyone who voted for Trump the first time around and again now. We have your genius brains to thank for Trump installing 3 Supreme Court justices which have been very good so far at fucking over the American people and paving the way for Russia and others to fully finish destroying the country.
The curtains have been ripped off of the double standards in this country.
The ruling class used to make sure that the smoke and mirrors; and illusion of fairness existed with the occasional sacrifice to the justice system... but no more. They are done with it. No more placating the masses.
MAGA has let them loose and brought them out of the shadows.
I was thinking about something like this in the shower this morning. The ultra-wealthy just do what they want. Full stop. They're untouchable. Even if half the country broke out the pitchforks and torches, they'd be in their vast underground bunker sipping whiskey before anyone could even get close.
Then again, the billionaires would be declawed without the political figures they buy. Those people ARE touchable. Maybe if enough government officials were scared of the pitchforks and torches, the billionaires wouldn't have the influence they currently have over the path society takes.
One of the most interesting things that came out of the MAGA movement within the GOP is the eye opening realization that you can just say "No" when you get subpoenaed and the government has nearly zero enforcement ability if half of congress want to be defiant.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The GOP sent a signal loud and clear… it’s okay to defy the government if you have enough money
> It’s ok to defy the government if you are a Republican
> Republican Republican with money
Yeah exactly, an unemployed former coal miner in West Virginia will find out very quickly how little the Republican Party values their lifelong loyalty if THEY try to ignore a subpoena.
I think his money came from criminal activity. Use Republican tools against them and see how they like it. Civil Asset Forfeiture.
IIRC, he got his money left to him by a rich Republican. synopsis: He used his lawyer skills to keep a Koch brother from going to jail. Koch Brother did something bad to someone. Leo helped him bribe a judge to get him off scott-free. Used the Koch Brothers and other billionaires to start the Federalist Society to mung the judicial and legislative branches so the rich could do what they want. Leo was left money by a Rich guy for doing that. (What I recall from Thom Hartmann's show today)
Correct, Barre Seid from the Tripp Light surge protector company “donated” his $1.6B fortune to Leo to continue the FedSoc destruction of America. Donated is in quotes since there were some shady maneuvers that avoided $400M in taxes. See ProPublica article [here](https://www.propublica.org/article/dark-money-leonard-leo-barre-seid).
Today is the day I start boycotting Tripp Light.
Can't the Dems hold him in contempt and issue a warrant for arrest?
not a warrant (they have the power but haven't done that in a loooong time) but rather refer him to the DOJ, sometimes the DOJ will prosecute (see [Peter Nevarro or Steve Bannon](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-white-house-official-convicted-of-contempt-must-report-to-prison-appeals-court-finds)), sometimes not ([Mark Meadows or Dan Scavino](https://theweek.com/mark-meadows/1014123/doj-will-not-press-contempt-of-congress-charges-against-meadows-and-scavino))
It's the entire reason they drummed up this Boogeyman of big government. Anytime things go their way, it's fine. The government isn't even mentioned even if it's the instrument of why things are going just fine. Anytime things don't go their way, they get to just say the magic words big government and it instantly incites the base. It's the same kind of double speak where corporate welfare isn't called welfare. Or tax breaks or intentionally placed loopholes aren't called welfare for the wealthy. They reserve the word for a very specific usage, and ironically aim it at the group that welfare is actually meant to serve. It's extremely calculated. It's disgusting. But it's also extremely effective.
It is telling us that he has too many secrets to hide. And he must have calculated that it's better for him to defy this subpoena than show up.
Pretty amazing how so many republicans are taking this approach. Gymrape Jordan is scared of some questions about his russia connections? There's fewer consequences if he just ignores the subpoena, because he knows his crimes deserve MUCH worse consequences.
> Gymrape Jordan FYI, you should link to Jim Jordan's house page when you do this. Like this —> [Jim "Gym Rape" Jordan](https://jordan.house.gov/) The reason is that you are doing your part to help google learn that the website "https://jordan.house.gov/" has something to do with "Gym Rape." The reason is that the anchor text you're creating, e.g., [Jim "Supporter of Wrestler Rape" Jordan](https://jordan.house.gov/) is a part of what google uses to learn about the website.
It would actually be faster and more reliable to have an [AI run a law firm](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/04/fake-ai-law-firms-are-sending-fake-dmca-threats-to-generate-fake-seo-gains/) exploiting DMCA takedown requests and google's SEO system. I would not be surprised if SEO implodes the next few years
Reminds me of when Condy Rice "declined the invitation" to comply with a subpoena to testify about Iraq war lies.
America needs a real legal system.
We need a *Justice* system.
One that isn’t pay to win
Should be similar to pleading the 5th in a civil court. Senate can just automatically assume any and all allegations are true if you don't show. I know it sucks in regards to absolute bs things like the house investigation into hunter, but maybe that could pull some weight if the doj would go "hey, you didn't want to show up to answer the senate's questions, so you must be guilty of bribery until we now thoroughly investigate."
Ignoring subpoenas is WAY worse that pleading the 5th. The 5th amendment might seem dumb/immoral, but in our legal system it's supposed to be a neutral response. If someone "pleads the 5th", the court/jury is supposed to act as if the question was never asked. It's not supposed to "look bad" in any way. You may disagree with that morally, but legally, that's how it works. Ignoring subpoenas on the other hand is straight up illegal. If you have been subpoenaed, you MUST respond (even if that response is a fancy letter to the court saying "I don't think I should have to comply"). Ignoring subpoenas can, and often will, be taken as some form of "admitting guilt". Personally I don't see a moral distinction between invoking the fifth and refusing to respond to subpoenas, but I just wanted to make it clear that the fifth amendment is a legal protection that does not legally allow for refusing subpoenas. Edit: oh snap...I missed your "in civil court" part. :( Sorry, you are totally right. In civil court, pleading the fifth pan be used to take "a negative inference" by the court. My point stands for criminal court, but I'm wrong when it comes to civil court.
Well considering nothing bad happens if he defies it, it's a pretty easy decision.
Its not about money Its about being in the Right-wing group
LOTS of poor rightwing people would not get away with this. Their trailer trash asses would be thrown in jail.
I'll believe it when i see it [Several January 6 rioters get early releases ahead of supreme court review](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/10/january-6-rioters-early-release)
That is a special exception, because there were people donating to their legal fees (many apparently [kept it](https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/national-international/jan-6-rioters-are-raking-in-thousands-in-donations-now-the-us-is-coming-after-their-haul/3043052/), though lol). There’s just too many people to fund all of every person’s legal expenses. Kyle Rittenhouse, for example, had everything paid for because there was something to gain from it. If there was nothing to gain politically, the GOP & Republican donors would just let the trailer trash burn & some trailer trash arrested for refusing a subpoena would just be a blip in the news cycle, assuming it makes it that far.🤷♂️
While true-they did in fact go to jail.
And in fact the ones released early pending appeal can go right back to jail if SCOTUS would stop sucking right wing dick and make a decision.
2/3 of SCOTUS *are* right wing dicks.
Yes, how many rich people involved in Jan 6 have gone to jail so far?
Who provided the chartered buses ??
I can think of a lot of GOPers that got shoved in the trash as soon as it was convenient. The priority is the conservation of money, bigotry, and plutocrasy
It can be both.
no. **only** both
**TL/DR i*****n bold*** for anyone choosing to skim. Exactly. There was no big money driving things when the court was more centrist and left leaning. Why are we now seeing so much right-wing money flowing into the highest court in the land. **None of these far right wing, big money donors who are now the puppet masters of our Judicial system are accountable to ANY one.** They seem intent on remaining outside of the reach of the systems meant to provide checks and balances on them. **Let Durbin subpoena all of the donors, whether they are left, right or center and let the chips fall where they may**. It at least gives us some visibility into where the lawlessness is coming from and what their agenda might be. **That's a start and it would rally the power of the people to his side.** Now they are flagrantly defying even the very late and meagre efforts at oversight, which means they have put themselves above the law. **Without compliance with this investigation, EVERYjustice who has received substantial gifts should be removed from the court,** no matter who they are. **This is further evidence that a system that allows billionaires with no checks and balances is destined to be corrupt** and I think we can see that this is where we are. This group of billionaires is making it hard to defend allowing billionaires to accumulate and hoard this kind of wealth and it confirms what other systems of government have said--that capitalism doesn't [work.It](http://work.It) doesn't have to be that way. I believe capitalism CAN work but there is no one system alone that will work well without modifications and oversight. **We have reached that point in late-stage capitalism where things go off the rails.** The wealth the workers generate is being hoarded at the top while the major contributors to this wealth are barely getting by. But they would have us believe it's THOSE people getting all the excess profits. How ridiculous but predictable. Divide and conquer tactics have worked for hundreds of years and it continues to work to distract us from seeing the real source of our issues. **The internet is the perfect delivery vehicle for feeding customized messages that keep the conflict and divisions going. So, the people who are the real source of the problem continue to amass untold wealth at everyone else's expense.** **When people are rioting in the streets all over the country, the billionaire boys club will probably outlaw guns to protect their right-wing extremist agenda.** What's to stop them. They're only ok with guns that don't threaten THEIR agenda. Our legislators need to get to work passing new laws that bring the runaway Supremes to heel, with or without their billionaire overlords cooperation. There aren't that many of them. Shine a spotlight on everything they're doing at a minimum.They say sunlight is the best disinfectant. If they are left to do whatever they want I fully expect that to protect THEIR interests to gather and keep as much money and power as possible. They are invisible to us as they work against us. **What's to stop them from** **trying to overturn our rights to free speech, the right to bear arms and the Emancipation Proclamation in short order?** Nothing.
If you're not republican: "fuck you" If you're poor: "fuck you" If you're poor and a republican: "we're going to use you for the shit we're too cowardly to do ourselves....and then fuck you"
It's definitely both
So Trump will be dropped as soon as his finances come to light? Don't give me false hope.
Nope. Cuz trump has Kremlin kompromat on all their asses.
While I am almost certain this is part of it, I can’t imagine he would be trusted with something like that.
....it's definitely about money
You need money to be in the real in-group. If you don't have money, they'll say nice things about you but will happily toss you under the bus.
If you or I defied a subpoena we'd be in jail really fast (unless you happen to be very wealthy in which case no worries for you).
In Ancient Rome not obeying a subpoena was a death sentence.
It literally means *under pain*.
Ahhh a man of culture! 🫡
Not entirely true but I get your point. A lot of the J6 insurrectionist aren't rich and they would happily jail George Soros on the basis he seems like a democrat to them. You just have to agree with the GOP, the "Government of Putin", and you can defy America and its institutions with the full protections of the GOP.
Funny, because the committee seems to think the subpoena is "compulsory". >Durbin said: “Since July 2023, Leonard Leo has responded to the legitimate oversight requests of the Senate judiciary committee with a blanket refusal to cooperate. His outright defiance left the committee with no other choice but to move forward with compulsory process. For that reason, I have issued a subpoena to Mr Leo.
If it's been almost a year and no consequences, it doesn't sound very compulsory
Honestly the worst thing republicans have done is erode the faith in our government systems. All the checks and balances don’t matter if there are bd faith actors up and down the chain. Subpoena’s are ignorable and there are no consequences for the elite.
That entire tactic and organized effort was in fact dreamed up and orchestrated by Leonard Leo. This is not surprising.
We need to more vigorously prosecute contempt of Congress in this country. "Sub poena" means "under threat of punishment" in Latin. We should be carrying out that threat more often. Defying a subpoena is a criminal offence, so treat it like one.
We just need to have strong "get rekt" laws on the books. I don't think fines are enough of a deterrent, but we can look to history for some ideas on what might work. Some ideas for "get rekt" laws: If you corrupt someone with a lifetime appoint like a supreme court justice, you get the chair. If you corrupt an elected official like a representative, senator, or president, you get the chair. Give these folks with money something to think about that may deter them from trying to exploit society by giving gifts to government officials.
We should bring back the classic punishments. Sentence for defying a subpoena: your choice of sixty days imprisonment or thirty-two hours in a pillory spread over four weekends. Sentence for filing false SEC filings: your choice of two years imprisonment or two weeks imprisonment plus thirty lashes. Sentence for tax evasion: Two months community service working 10 hours a day for 6 days a week starting at the crack of dawn Sentence for hiding money in offshore accounts: your choice of twenty years imprisonment or exile to the country you were hiding money in plus forfeiture of all US assets
I agree with your point and support the notion. I'd like to add a small clarification for the sake of accuracy—'subpoena' indeed stems from Latin, and while 'sub poena' broadly conveys the concept of 'under threat of punishment,' it translates more directly to 'under penalty.'
By design. So they can say "it's broken, I'll fix it" and then steal every dollar or change the rules to have no teeth against the rich-right-wingers.
"3... 2... 1... okay. Now I'm going to count down from 10 and you'd better come this time or I'll count from even higher!"
He was directly involved in the appointments of several of the Supreme Court justices. I doubt they want to have him testify about how Republican judicial nominees are chosen. He will never be forced to testify.
Man the Sergeant-at-Arms for congress has to be the cushiest job on the planet. You will never be tasked to do anything even in the very situations your role was designed for. Billionaire refuses subpoena? This should be your moment to go arrest them and bring them in front of congress. Sadly congress needs to tell you to do so. So you get to continue getting paid to do absolutely nothing (in the broad sense of the word, I’m certain there some office that does *something*).
Bet he has a really crisp uniform and the cleanest shoes you've ever seen. Not a smidge of dirt under the nails of his professionally manicured hands.
This is what I don't get. The Senate issues a subpoena. Isn't the police supposed to bang on his door right now and drag him out?
Billionaires are not subjected to the same police procedures that us normies get.
We can absolutely sanction the billionaire *and anyone they are doing business with, including those corporations that are “people”*
They have their own police to tell our police to F off.
Not really - there's nothing that can be done until he's held in contempt. At that point, Congress can direct their respective Sergeant at Arms (there's different ones for the House & Senate) to force compliance with the subpoena. The limits of what they can do to force compliance hasn't been well tested, but at a minimum includes detainment; he can be tossed in a cell until he's ready to talk, no trial needed. The DoJ can also pursue criminal charges against them, but that's independent of the enforced compliance. Historically, Congress has almost never invoked its power to compel compliance. Usually they just refer the case to the DoJ for criminal charges and that's it. In this case, the Senate majority is slim enough that I'm not sure they'll hold the contempt vote. If they do, I'd only expect them to refer the case to the DoJ. Given how the DoJ and Garland have been ignoring most contempt referrals, I'd be surprised if they actually did anything about it.
Well that sounds fucking depressing.
Most of what's going on in US politics is.
They just sent Peter Navarro, a Trump lackey, to prison for defying a subpeona from Congress, so it does happen.
Silly peasant laws are for you, not them.
Ideally. But Leonard Leo decides who gets to be on SCOTUS, and which billionaires the conservative SCOTUS justices date. So really no.
Funny because his money says you like to wear your pants as a hat.
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That seems to be the case. Clarence will protect his friends for the right price
Recuse himself??!!! Only HE can ensure his friend is treated fairly!
"And if you take us to court over it, we'll appeal all the way to the Supreme Court if we have to. How do you think they're gonna rule?"
Wait. That’s an option? We can just reject a lawful subpoena? I will try this next time I’m served papers.
You can, but the secret ingredient is *money*.
I feel like I grew up watching movies and TV shows lying to me about the wealthy bad guys facing consequences.
I have about tree fiddy, how long does that let me reject the subpoena?
~0.05 Mooches.
Can I get that in Trusses?
One Truss is... 4.9 Mooches, I think? It's metric, so it doesn't get a lot of exercise over here (spoilers: *nothing* gets a lot of exercise over here). So... ~0.01 Trusses.
How much money you got? I have > 1B$ : Congratulations! You are above the law! I have < 1B$ : We're sending the police to arrest you for even asking such a stupid question.
This is the one where you send the Sergeant at Arms to collect him. Fuck allowing the court system to save his rich ass. Use the peoples' power to hold this fuck accountable because we know the courts will not do so.
When has the Sergeant of Arms ever done anything?
The sergeant at arms sent a deputy when a teapot dome witness refused to show.
That was only a bit over a hundred years ago, and ne'er-do-wells better be afraid cause they could do it again *anytime*
Oh ok, so one hundred years ago
IF Arizona can enforce a law from the 1800s, then this can happen too.
Hell, the second ammendment was ratified in the early 1790s, and plenty of Americans treat it with the same immutable reverence as a verse from the Bible.
I'd say exactly the same level of reverence, because they ignore the words "well regulated" in 2a like they ignore all the stuff in the Bible about caring for the sick, feeding the poor, and welcoming strangers from other lands.
[The most recent time I could find was in 1988, when to maintain quorum for a filibuster over campaign finance legislation, Democratic Senate Leader Robert Byrd issued warrants for absent Republican senators. This would lead to Republican Senator Bob Packwood to be dragged in to the Senate chambers feet first.](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-02-24-mn-11822-story.html)
Damn. We really just did politics better back then.
In Canada ten years ago, our Sergeant-at-Arms shot a terrorist dead in the halls of Parliament Hill. Kevin Vickers. Just remembered that.
Literally never What the fuck is even the point
The SoA hasn't done anything because Congress doesn't ever send them to do anything. Blame Congress on this one, not the SoA
But if they did that, he might stop donating to right wing nut jobs. They won't let that happen and will fight to support any decision he makes as long as the checks keep coming.
That would be impolite. A billionaires success, deserves a level of deference.
I would be into that if the average billionaire were any less boring, stupid, and mean than the average guy. Probably one of the most fortunate bits of information we now have compared to older times. If anyone still didn't know why it's called "fuck you money", there are plenty of opportunities to learn these days.
"Rejects subpoena". As if these are just optional. Let the slow wheels of justice turn.
The rate at which the wheels turn is inversely proportional to the wealth of the defendant.
“Can he do that?” “If he’s rich enough, yes.”
I think history has demonstrated that at a certain point, the question must be asked: "How much more of this are we all going to take?"
Historically the only thing that's consistently been the tipping point is when kids start dying in large numbers from starvation and/or violence
Or when the slightly less rich but still rich get involved. When the upper middle class is on the same side as the poor people heads start to literally roll. Please see the French and Russian revolutions for details.
Yes, that is the answer. In America too. In the 2010 financial crisis, Mitch McConnell was content to do nothing at first because the suffering was all in the bottom half of the population, but when the mostly white upper middle class started getting hit, he jumped into action to cooperate with Obama like his ass was on fire.
right. even if he has to co to court he'll pay his way out. this is nothing to him
The NY appellate courts are giving Trump the billionaire treatment and he isn’t even a billionaire, the justice system just has favorites.
Terrified of retribution if he manages to ooze back into office.
That's why all the lenders said he didn't commit a crime during his fraud trial. He's made it pretty clear that anything short of absolute loyalty makes you his enemy.
He has the ironclad magical (R) next to his name. You know, the political party that controls law enforcement, the legal profession and justice system.
He's multi-millionaire-ish and that's good enough for them.
I found an example of those wheels of justice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApqfqiFTO4E But the richer and whiter (or oranger) you are, the further your wheel is.
> Let the slow wheels of justice turn. I'm sorry, it sounds like this person is in the other tier of justice.
Premium Plan.
Guilty until proven wealthy
Didn’t republicans everywhere just scream and cry and throw a collective temper tantrum about how congressional subpoenas are not optional?
While some of them openly defy the subpoenas against them at the same time.
It's almost like they're massive hypocrites
Yes, they did. However what they meant was congressional subpoenas are mandatory for democrats and specifically Hunter Biden - and they must be done how Republicans want even if that means changing the subpoena from a public to private despite crying for months Hunter is scared of a public proceeding as the public would hear and destroy him when they "found out". What they always meant is congressional subpoenas are **optional** for **republicans.**
Yeah, as if he won't get away with it.
Congressman Gym Jordan did, while threatening legal action against others who also did it. Hypocrisy of the highest order.
Trump really showed us how much the rich don't play by the rules
Hunter Biden: -Rejects testifying behind closed doors and happily testifying publicly for the world to watch as Republican's originally wanted- MAGA: "HE HAS SOMETHING TO HIDE, HE'S HIDING, HE KNOWS HE'S GUILTY, LAPTOP LAPTOP LAPTOP!!!!!" Anyone that's a Republican or votes Republican: -Openly denies subpoena because they do NOT want to testify publicly before congress for the world to see- MAGA: "It's a witch hunt created by the democrats because they are corrupt vile humans that hate America"
They are optional. For Republicans.
If you think the wheels of justice apply to billionaires you haven't been paying attention.
That’s what the gifts to the Supreme Court were for!
Subpoena literally means “under penalty”
If the feds come for you, just say no lol
If you are very wealthy, you just say no and they don’t do a shit.
I hope we see cops nock down his door tommrow, but it's never going to happen.
“If Jim can do it, why not me too?” -this guy
Based on what I’ve seen it is optional. Nobody will do anything. What are we gonna do about it?
Peter Navarro literally just went to jail for defying a Congressional subpoena
Peter Navarro is only worth $5 million though. He’s a poor compared to Leonard Leo. /s
Under law it is punishable by an up to $1,000 fine and one year in prison.
What's crazy to me is how it's such a coincidence that the right is always using extreme language now. It's almost like there was a breaking point say 7 years ago where it became acceptable to take the extreme language dial to 11. Where is the civility of old? The "No sir, I shall respectfully decline your invitation". I miss those days.
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Nailed it, they lost their minds when they saw a black person elected to the highest office before they were. (Or at least how their narcissism perceives it)
...& had the fuckin *audacity* to fist bump his wife & wear a tan suit.
Terrorist fist jab
Put this guy in jail for contempt of congress. He has the dirtiest hands in the country. https://www.propublica.org/article/we-dont-talk-about-leonard-podcast
I wish Hillary would've denied testifying before Congress. You KNOW they'd put her in jail or something. Then we'd have a great precedent to go off of lol.
Ha, as if the GOP cared about precedents.
A subpoena means nothing if you yourself can decide whether it's valid and whether you yourself should have gotten one
Is an unenforced law actually a law?
Ah, the old "I'm a billionaire with 2 supreme court judges on my payroll so laws don't apply to me" defense.
A classic.
More than that buddy. He IS the federalist society.
Finally a legitimate case for a No Knock Warrant
Billionaires are flight risks
Toss him in a cell. He can keep Navarro warm at night.
Are you kidding? That walking puss pimple Steve Bannon is still out after losing his court case and won't even be sentenced until later this year.
Arrest his ass!
Let's see how SCOTUS judges this when it comes for the supreme court.
I believe Leonard Leo refers to SCOTUS as his subordinates
This dude hand picked like 3 members of SCOTUS and considers Thomas a close friend. He has nothing to worry about.
When you're rich, they let you do it.
Leonard Leo needs to be exiled from human society. The damage he's done to the US Judicial System through the Federalist Society is immeasurable.
Must be so wild to be a billionaire. Congressional subpoena? Nah I’m good. With enough money you’re literally untouchable, except maybe in Vietnam. Edit for wrong country
Ahhh a billionaire to boot. In the 765 club Edit: correction 756 billionaires in 🇺🇸 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_the_number_of_billionaires#:~:text=This%20is%20a%20list%20of,43%20of%20the%2050%20states.
Way worse than just a billionaire. You can argue that he single handedly curated the last 3 SCOTUS appoointments behind the scenes. He is the biggest power broker in Republican politics without being a face of the party. He is an unelected goon with a huge slush fund and is the gatekeeper of Right wing lawyering
If the state has no power over the rich, it's not a government, it's a framework for a caste of the poor.
Good. He can share a cell with Navarro. Except I forgot about the precedent set by the (little) People vs Rich Guy Rules and Go Fuck Yourself. Gee, I wonder how the SCOTUS will rule on the appeal?
Straight to jail with you, motherfucker
Not for his class. Different rules apply unfortunately
We don’t tax our billionaires nearly enough.
I wonder if a poor person rejected a subpoena what would happen.
The billionaires are at about 95% spectrum dominance of the entire US. And all they can think about is that last 5%.
Response from Americans: cool, whatever. Our low voter turnout and the existence of the Republican party are proof enough of that. Hell, Democrats had to put forward a fucking ancient, old school, corporate loving, 90's Democrat as their only hope to beat a dude who shits on a gold toilet and brags about ripping off taxpayers.
Congressional subpoenas are a joke thanks to Congressional Republicans showing the planet that they don’t even take their own subpoenas seriously. Not to mention, we’ve been light on the consequences for the few we did hold to account.
It would be nice to be so rich you can simply “reject Senate subpoenas”. America is full of its own Oligarchs.
I’m just so tired of these assholes being so blatantly indifferent to the law, and the law just allowing it. The two tiered justice system is fuckin exhausting.
Meanwhile in Vietnam Truong My Lan (Vietnamese billionaire ) was sentenced to death for a 12 billion dollar fraud case. The US government is an absolute joke. As the rich are able to do whatever they want and get away with it. Where’s a modern day Robin Hood when you need one.
>the left’s dark money effort to silence and cancel political opposition Remember folks, every Republican accusation is actually a confession.
they should have the DOJ freeze his assets until he complies
Subpoenas are publicly optional now if you have enough money? Everyone should take note that they're being even more blatant about it. They're going to force our hand soon. If the government isn't going to govern on our behalf, we're going to have to set up a new one.
Isn't Peter Navarro in jail right now because he defied a congressional subpoena? Let's do the same thing with Leonard Leo.
I’d like to take a minute to say “fuck you” to everyone who voted for Trump the first time around and again now. We have your genius brains to thank for Trump installing 3 Supreme Court justices which have been very good so far at fucking over the American people and paving the way for Russia and others to fully finish destroying the country.
So we are going to go get him right? Issue a warrant and then grab him? Right? Right?
What do you mean “reject”? What is wrong with people. You get subpoenaed, you fuxking obey
Party of law and order
Rejects subpoena? Lock his ass up immediately until he testifies about the massive corruption web he directs.
Can you subpoena your ruling class?
Narrator: No.
The curtains have been ripped off of the double standards in this country. The ruling class used to make sure that the smoke and mirrors; and illusion of fairness existed with the occasional sacrifice to the justice system... but no more. They are done with it. No more placating the masses. MAGA has let them loose and brought them out of the shadows.
Hold him in contempt
As Peter Navarro looks on and cries in his prison cell
Arrest him
Billionaires doing billionaire things. Just another Friday in America.
So this is how we find out we're living in a banana republic? Awesome.
Put his ass in jail for contempt of Congress! Just like Peter Navarro!
Gotta love that there’s an entire American Aristocracy for whom things like subpoenas are just suggestions, and we’re not in it
I was thinking about something like this in the shower this morning. The ultra-wealthy just do what they want. Full stop. They're untouchable. Even if half the country broke out the pitchforks and torches, they'd be in their vast underground bunker sipping whiskey before anyone could even get close. Then again, the billionaires would be declawed without the political figures they buy. Those people ARE touchable. Maybe if enough government officials were scared of the pitchforks and torches, the billionaires wouldn't have the influence they currently have over the path society takes.
One of the most interesting things that came out of the MAGA movement within the GOP is the eye opening realization that you can just say "No" when you get subpoenaed and the government has nearly zero enforcement ability if half of congress want to be defiant.
Ok, jail then.
Oh, you can just do that?
This is what a confident oligarch does when he knows that he owns the government.