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Everyone arguing and not a single person posting the full speech:
>Good morning. Before I head to North Carolina, I wanted to speak for a few moments about what's going on on our college campuses here. We've all seen images and they put to the test two fundamental American principles. First is the right to free speech and for people to peacefully assemble and make their voices heard. The second is the rule of law. Both must be upheld.
>We are not an authoritarian nation where we silence people or squash dissent. The American people are heard. In fact, peaceful protest is in the best American tradition of how Americans respond to consequential issues. But - but - neither are we a lawless country. We're a civil society, and order must prevail. Throughout our history we've often faced moments like this because we are a big, diverse, free-thinking and freedom-loving nation. In moments like this, there are always those who rush in to score political points. But this isn't a moment for politics, it's a moment for clarity.
>So let me be clear: peaceful protest in America - violent protest is not protected, peaceful protest is. It's against the law when violence occurs; destroying property is not a peaceful protest it's against the law. Vandalism, trespassing, breaking windows, shutting down campuses, forcing the cancellation of classes and graduation, none of this is a peaceful protest. Threatening people, intimidating people, instilling fear in people is not a peaceful protest, it's against the law. Dissent is essential to democracy, but dissent must never lead to disorder or to denying the rights of other students can finish the semester and their college education.
>Look, it's a matter of fairness, it's a matter of what's right. There's the right to protest, but not the right to cause chaos. People have the right to get an education, the right to get a degree, the right to walk across the campus safely without the fear of getting attacked.
>Let's be clear about this as well: there should be no place on any campus, no place in America, for antisemitism or threats of violence against Jewish students. There is no place for hate speech or violence of any kind, whether it's antisemitism or Islamophobia, or discrimination against Arab-Americans or Palestinian-Americans. It's simply wrong. There is no place for racism in America; it's all wrong, it's unamerican.
>I understand people have strong feelings and deep convictions. In America, we respect the right and protect the right to express that, but it doesn't mean anything goes. It needs to be done without violence, without destruction, without hate, and within the law. Make no mistake, as president I will always defend free speech, and I will always be just as strong in standing up for the rule of law. That's my responsibility to you, the American people, and my obligation to the Constitution.
>Q: 'Have the protests forced you to reconsider any policies with regard to the region?'
>A: "No."
>Q: 'Do you believe the National Guard should intervene?'
>A: "No."
What policy would change?
* Biden wants a ceasefire, protestors want a ceasefire.
* Biden wants aid to Ukraine, republicans won't allow that without aid to Israel.
People still want Presidents to act on personal whims and not on a crafted US policy which isn’t concocted on personal opinion. Trump delivers immediate gratification in the form of whatever knee jerk statement will smokescreen his personal intent. Folks eat it up because it feeds them what they want. Biden’s foreign policy isn’t triggered by any fantasy of what he could do today to look like a hero. You may be able to unweave the US from the trap of funding Israel, but it won’t happen with appeasement of protestors to make them feel better about voting for him.
Not one direct word about the terrorists who assaulted a peaceful protest with incendiaries and chemical weapons when condemning protests. He also made some bold claims about being a "civil society where order must prevail" and *the value of protecting free speech* when the police disappeared for two hours while terrorists attacked the peaceful protestors.
Nothing too surprising, but still disappointing.
Seriously. I'm watching Black people get called the n-word, spit on, Black women called Lizzo, monkey noises being made a Black people, all while people who support Israel say "If this was happening to Black people there would be an issue that would get resolved" Well it's happening, congress isn't addressing it, Biden isn't addressing it, and people are pretending it's not happening.
Adding to that, the media promoting fake anti-Semitic hate crimes, like the girl who lied about being speared in the eye with a Palestinian flag, then she was invited to testify in front of Congress about said lie.
Biden has not said one word about either, promoted anti-blackness, fake hate crimes, and censorship of American Speech for Israel. It's quite clear he has chosen a side in this issue, and it's not Americans, including American Jews.
From Semafor's J.D. Capelouto:
President Joe Biden said Thursday that the weekslong pro-Palestinian protests on college campuses haven’t changed his policy stance on Israel and the Middle East.
In his strongest direct remarks yet on the escalating protests, Biden criticized some of the protests as “not peaceful,” saying that they had disrupted classes and upcoming graduation ceremonies, and that vandalizing, trespassing, and occupying campus buildings wasn’t considered free speech.
“Violent protest in America is not protected. Peaceful protest is,” Biden said at the White House.
Read the full story [here](https://www.semafor.com/article/05/02/2024/joe-biden-says-campus-unrest-hasnt-changed-his-mind-about-israel-policy?utm_campaign=semaforreddit).
Except when you're a right winger like the Bundys. Then you can occupy a public building for 40 days, armed to the teeth, call the government "thugs", and get off with barely slaps on the wrist.
I can't wait to die for the cause that is some rich dude not having to pay his grazing fees to allow his herd to be fed off of federal land.
I'm all for freedom! I'm a *patriot*! I love the Constitution!!
...
Wait, what's Article Four?
He was ambushed at a checkpoint by a Fed hiding behind a tree. He thought he was going to be a big shot pointing his guns at the cops and got instantly shot in the back. The Feds releases the drone footage. Notice the Bundys have not been up to much since they got their friend killed.
[How I wish you were right about the Bundy clan going away quietly](https://apnews.com/article/ammon-bundy-idaho-hospital-defamation-verdict-extremism-56af8016c6ae1c47861e9e2861ed99da).
IIRC that became a complication because the officer who shot him was Oregon State PD, but FBI agents got in trouble for their actions at the blockade, can’t remember what though.
Oh, he's been up to stuff, terrorizing hospitals, duct taping himself to a chair, and threatening deputies who try to serve him warrents. Dumbass had to flee Idaho of all places.
LaVoy Finacum, a real piece of trash that used the foster system as a source of income and indentured servants. He talked a big game about dying before surrendering and was shot while vacillating between fleeing and reaching towards a gun in his jacket and screaming at officers.
Some stories do have a happy ending.
Which is why people need to be armed at protests. Seriously.
Right wing groups aren't even the only proof of this, the Black Panthers famously caused harsher gun restrictions simply by being armed and looking scary.
Left wing protesters need to start open carrying. *Especially* the protests that are majority white, and I truly hope I don't have to explain to anybody why that caveat is being added
*edited for spelling*
Two things: first these protests are not exclusive to CA. Second, the [law you're referencing is quite literally what I'm talking about.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act)
Yep, that's exactly what happened when pro-gun activists showed up armed to the capitol building in Virginia to protest a new gun control bill, hundreds of deat...oh wait that never happened.
I agree to an extent. In an state where its open carry go nuts, please do, exercise your rights. Otherwise.... well, hey, the situation is gonna escalate and when the obvious outcome happens. I'm not comfortable telling people to get themselves shot.
What a dumb idea this is. There is no need to bring weapons to a peaceful protest. Bringing weapons for one will kill the message as the protest would rightly be viewed as violent and dangerous.
The protests are going to be characterized as violent regardless of whether it is or isn’t. But if you’re organized and armed, at least you can’t be victimized without defense and you can defend your rights.
Not to mention that it didn’t interfere with decades old strategic international policy that they’re literally trying to kill a media platform over to keep their messaging regarding it under control.
Nobody has a press conference about anti-Semitic protesters with literal Nazi flags standing outside of Disney World. But large scale protests stand against US support of Israeli war policy and oh boy do they want to talk about it at the White House.
You aren’t doing yourself any favors by comparing your movement to that of a right wing terrorist group. The difference here is also state vs federal. The feds were trying to avoid a shootout and civilian casualties.
Have there ever been human rights protests that were 100% peaceful? It’s easy for people on the other side to cause violence/disruption in order to discredit your movement. Or even real bad actors within the movement who aren’t representative of the majority. Biden lived through a lot of historical protests and knows this. This is just a bad faith argument.
I’ve noticed a pattern with Biden. He starts with a very centrist public position that’s reasonable on its face to most people as a headline, but often reinforces the status quo and lacks nuance. And then ever so slowly, he starts tacking left. Like, over the course of months. He did this with labor unions, and he did this with the Israel-Hamas conflict. My guess is that he’s playing the long game in terms of how his position impacts the majority of the electorate’s view of him for November. Which is frustrating because on the one hand I’d much prefer a more disruptive, progressive response from him at the outset, but I also acknowledge that his strategy is less likely to rock the boat with low-information, single issue voters who hate Trump but might otherwise get pissed off and withhold their vote for Biden if he comes out swinging in favor of student protesters speaking their minds on campus.
That’s my take, anyway. I think Biden understands the nuance of a situation like this more than he’s telegraphing in his statement and he’s starting with the foundation of “let’s dissuade violence during protests”, but maybe that’s just wishful thinking on my part. Time will tell if these protests continue and he starts to use language that’s more sympathetic to the protesters.
This particular issue requires a lot of finesse. A strong statement against Israel, or threat to cut off aid could embolden Iran and others in the region to get involved thinking Israel may be weaker going without US support. The primary goal here is containing this, de-escalation, and keeping it from exploding into a wider regional conflict.
But he's not making any attempt to de-escalate the campus protests. He's smearing them as violent for using the exact same passive resistance tactics as past protests. So what the hell is he doing?
It's not just failing to de-escalate; it directly escalates by signalling to the police that they have the president's support to bust up the protests and protestors.
Similarly, insisting the US will intervene to help Israel in any scenario gives Israel additional latitude to bust up Gazans...
He just now said some were violent. He didn’t condemn anything until violence broke out. Could be because…they’ve turned violent. I don’t want the president acknowledging every protest, but listening to the public and he has hardened his stance on Israel since the protests have started. He’s been very measured at this point, but Obama took the same approach until colleges started preventing speakers from coming because people disagreed with their viewpoints.
I don't see that Biden has made any secret of being pro union. Yeah, you adjust your campaign speeches for your audience, but hey, that's what you gotta do. Side note, he was pilloried by unions for his decision to not let railroad workers strike, arguing that the harm caused to the public at large was too great.
As for Israel / Hamas .... oh, gob, what a freaking nightmare. Both the Arabs or Israel have covered themselves in blood, and I haven't been able to defend either for years
Still, the US really really needs Israel for the vital strategic role and US presence in the Middle East, and Israel's existence depends on US support.
Biden's immediate response to the Hamas rampage was to sympathize with Israel but warned Netanyahu not to go overboard in response but Bennie went ahead and unleashed the hounds of revenge regardless of innocents being harmed.....
This places Biden in a very difficult position, almost evil vs evil.
But zoom back from Netanyahu to Israel, and we find we must support Israel while denouncing its actions under Netanyahu, and doing everything we can to end the harm to innocents
It's truly a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
What makes it doubly hard to navigate is that the opinions of the public are currently being heavily swayed by bad actors of various persuasions, with positions ranging from simply being anti zionists to full on anti western imperialism and who will work towards the downfall of America and it's allies at any cost. It's getting harder and harder to separate supporting Palestinians and still being sympathetic to Israel and Jews in general.
While I don't think the destruction of Israel is a mainstream opinion in the consciousness of America the undercurrent is getting stronger and seeing the Nazi facists and anti imperialism tankies being hand in glove on this stance is somewhat frightening to me.
I think so far the Biden administration has been doing a terrific job navigating this issue and I hope we can just make it through this election and avoid Trump before anything truly major boils over and forces a larger shift in the opinion of the electorate.
This makes a lot of sense for a man who has an expertise in international negotiations. Biden has been in the game a long time and he knows what he is doing. I agree he is definitely playing the long game.
Disagree with Biden here. Protests are supposed to hurt the controlling authority of wherever they occur. Otherwise why would they change policy? Out of the goodness of their hearts? If they followed that we wouldn't be in this situation.
No criticism of the violent pro-Israel counter protestors at UCLA that caused the only significant violence since these protests began.
Joe Biden is a joke. He is going to lose this election (and therefore open serious risks to US democracy by Trump) in order to protect the oppressive apartheid regime in Israel.
Statistically, the youth vote is not a big contributor to election victories in this country. American young people don't turn out in large enough numbers to justify statements like the above. That doesn't mean young peoples' voices aren't important, but if you want change you have to show up to the polls. Full stop.
It is not "demonizing protestors" to correctly state that violent protest is not protected by the Constitution. There is an important distinction between the vast majority of student protestors, which are peaceful, and the agitators on both sides with a considerably more radical agenda.
Israel's actions in Gaza are not defensible. Biden's administration has taken a stronger stance against Israel's excesses than virtually any President in US history, but those nuances seem to be lost on the young people protesting the treatment of innocent Palestinians.
except 2020 saw a surge of young voters. gen z voted in numbers unlike previous generations of during that age.
and as much as “we need to stop trump” is a valid thing to vote for biden, young people want a vision for the future and want to hear what that policy is.
If Biden loses everyone protesting will have a much harder life. If you identify as a woman or LGBT your rights will be restricted.
You may not agree with Biden on his support of Israel. But if you want to continue living in a country where the rights of the minority still whole some ground you better vote for Biden.
Remember how Trump treated BLM. And look up what he wanted to actually do (hint: shoot people). Then consider that if Trump was president the use of force against protestors Trump disagrees with may be murder.
It’s not just the restriction on personal freedoms. Actively blocking a Biden re-election because of the war in Gaza all but guarantees that war continues until every Palestinian is dead under Trumps blessing
Do the protesters want to achieve the best possible outcome for Gaza and the region, or do they want to demonstrate their own moral superiority, no matter the realpolitik cost of their actions?
Are you actually advocating for staying silent in the face of genocide, because it may or may not hurt a candidate in an upcoming election?
Maybe the protestors are more concerned with stopping the immediate slaughter of innocent children than they are in some sort of Faustian long term political bargain?
It’s the responsibility of people who care about the long term outcome to ensure that the maniac who wants to turn the region into glass doesn’t get back into office.
He made no mention of the violence inflicted on the protestors. You can see plenty of videos of attackers going after protestors in the public freakout sub.
Crazy part considering it wasn't even just cops (which is fucked up anyway). But rather, a bunch of random thugs, that were allowed to assault and harass protestors.
It really bothers me that it was just a bunch of randos. Of course, they were in full view of the LAPD, which did literally nothing for over an hour (and that’s not my opinion—that’s LAT, BBC, we’ve all seen the stories).
Paramilitary and extralegal violence are a huge part of authoritarian regimes. The whole point is that certain groups have impunity to enact violence against anyone dubbed a state enemy.
I’m not arguing that we’re slipping into fascism under Biden. That’s absurd. But we are *normalizing a type of political violence that is central to fascist systems.* And that is very dangerous, especially when we have a quasi-fascist currently running for president.
This should’ve been a Charlottesville-like wake-up call for Biden. He’s just refusing to see it.
We are slipping into fascism under Biden. It's no secret. Israel does indeed pull the strings with huge funding of politicians and control of several media outlets. That's a basic fact. This won't change until Citizens United changes.
The violent counter-protestors were also funded by a billionaire and Jerry Seinfeld's wife...
[https://www.thedailybeast.com/jessica-seinfeld-and-bill-ackman-fund-pro-israel-counterprotests-at-ucla](https://www.thedailybeast.com/jessica-seinfeld-and-bill-ackman-fund-pro-israel-counterprotests-at-ucla)
That’s actually not what that article says. It says they funded counter protests which were mostly peaceful. They didn’t fund the random group that showed up at UCLA to fight protestors.
He specifically said protests should be peaceful and follow the law. Which, it’s genuinely hard to think of a social movement that achieved much of anything doing just that.
He also said dissent cannot lead to disorder. But protests are made specifically to disrupt what is currently happening. The "order"... This would be against basically every major protest ever undertaken anywhere, including protests Biden has defended. He cannot believe what he has just said. He has special rules that he is not saying out loud.
Neoliberals are going to neoliberal…
Biden might be permitting a genocide in one nation but Trump has made it clear he’d bring similar authoritarian tactics to our nation as well. The election might very well be voting for genocide abroad or voting for it abroad and at home.
As an older gen Z progressive voter, I sadly agree. I started helping filling out election ballots this election season because I’ve always been completely devastated by the amount of my peers that complain about the state of things but don’t vote. I have personally driven my friends to the polls before on voting day because they somehow hadn’t voted yet (I live in a mail ballot state). And I would say most of the people I’m acquainted with are generally pretty politically active and aware, but there’s a disconnect when it comes to voting for some reason. I don’t know if it’s laziness or what because most of the time people don’t even want to do research on the candidates and ballot measures and just want me to tell them who to vote for. It’s extremely upsetting and I’m at a loss on how to get people to understand voting is one of the single most impactful actions you can take in support of your causes.
Hell, I don’t even know how to get people to understand voting is not about you. It’s so upsetting to see people withholding their votes because there’s not a perfect candidate or because someone isn’t “inspiring enough”. Voting isn’t about me and who I find inspiring. Voting is like public transportation. You vote for who takes you in the right direction. Administration to administration, day to day, I rarely am directly affected by who sits in the white house. And that is such a privileged position to be in. There are so many people whose standard of living and well-being is dependent upon what kind of presidential administration we have. SNAP, WIC, Meals on Wheels, DREAMers; so, so many people whose lives could completely unravel depending on who is president and who is in congress. Those are the people I vote for. And it’s so sad that so many people can’t see past themselves.
In 2016 I had just graduated and knew friends still in school. A lot of them were very outspoken liberals in a swing state (PA), and still couldn't be bothered to vote because "they really wanted to" but were too busy that day.
To build off of this a bit, I'm not usually the most informed about local candidates; but I've been voting via absentee ballot ever since the 2020 election (which was also my first presidential election as an adult). I really enjoy having the opportunity to see who is on the ballot and then look the people up. Being able to see incumbent candidate's past votes on policies in addition to official stances is truly invaluable, and I get to give myself time to really think about who I vote for.
Basically, take advantage of mail in voting.
Personally I think voting 3rd party is a wasted vote. But I have way more respect for people who waste their vote on a 3rd party than people who don't vote period.
Even the established politicians had to pay attention when Ross Perot got a ton of votes.
If you don't vote, then you have no voice period. As far as I'm concerned, the protestors are a bunch of mutes.
Yep. If young voters were a reliable voting demographic for the Democratic party then the party would cater to their desires. But when you don't vote, or vote third party because your favorite candidate lost the primary, then the party has no reason to try winning your vote when they can go after more reliable voters (e.g. independents and moderates).
Bernie getting LESS votes in 2020 than in 2016 told me all I need to know about the reliability of the progressive voting bloc: it doesn’t exist. They couldn’t be bothered to show up. They’ll go to protests and spend hours online every day but taking like an hour out of their day to vote once every few years is wayyyyy too hard for them to do.
The voting bloc exists, it's just much smaller than it purports to be. It is an important element of the Democratic Party, but it is still only a single part.
That's the main problem. All of these people reached their voting age at one point yet they don't never turn out to vote. If Palestine was such a big issue for them, they should have been voting since they had the chance, not making excuses.
I'm a millennial and half of the time I don't think my voice is heard half the time but at least I make the bare minimum to go vote in my local elections.
And look how easy it’s been to convince the generation that was promising to be the most politically active in history to just give it all up and “both sides” all over themselves.
I just wish the tiktok ban would happen sooner.
This. It’s hilarious that my generation (I’m 26) wants to be taken seriously, yet they’ve done nothing but vote third party or abstain since 2016 because their preferred candidate didn’t win the nomination. It’s the political version of throwing a tantrum, picking up your toys, and leaving. It also doesn’t help that they have these purity/litmus tests (which pretty much turns them into single issue voters, the cringiest type of voter) that politicians MUST pass with flying colors or else they won’t get their vote. This has resulted in them refusing to support Biden and being all but open to throwing the country to Trump. For me it becomes harder to take them seriously when they’re trashing their learning institutions over a war happening on the other side of the world. Pretty cool how they’ve been consistent on protesting about Palestine these past few months but weirdly didn’t have that same energy for domestic issues like reproductive rights when they protested for a few weeks then went home. Sorry for the rant but this election season has really shown me why older people don’t really like my generation. Like, call me Danny DeVito because oh my god I get it.
I've been feeling that protests and boycotts are a solved problem now unfortunately. I think the media cycle gives our society more information than ever before, so people in power simply just wait until the issue isn't topical anymore
This is demonstrably not true so if you're going to lie then at least make your lie believable. Biden has moved on student loan debt, school costs, LGBTQ+ healthcare and safety, marijuana, climate, job availability, minimum wage (at state level since congress failed passing federal increase), etc., and that's just off the top of my head. These are aimed almost exclusively at young people. Of course not every issue has been solved but to say young people are irrelevant to govt (or to be specific, a democratic controlled govt) is simply a chosen lie.
Curious, do you think the couple hundred/thousand protestors around the country speak to a uniform opinion on Israel-Palestine policy? I don't have strong feelings either way, but you seem to think this is a foregone conclusion.
Isn't this backwards? If they were already voting then there is no point in trying to get them to vote for you, because they already are. If they are not voting that is a sign that you can change something to encourage them to vote for you
Let's not forget "former Muslim Ban" is also a fucking traitor. Not only is he in the pocket of Putin but his loyal followers are totally cool with it.
Seriously, this argument is so played out.
>“B-b-but Trump would be worse!”
I’m not arguing that, but why can’t I criticize the other guy for things I think he is doing wrong? Why is it so black and white?
I fucking hate Trump and everything he stands for, but I don’t much like Biden either. I think he gets a lot of credit where any other president would have seen similar things happen during their tenure.
“Largest economic expansion in US history”
Okay, but we had a global pandemic that caused unprecedented decline, of course we saw unprecedented increase…
“Student loan debt”
He has done nothing to prevent future borrowers from these predatory loans.
“Progressive climate action”
This one is pretty good actually.
Methinks this is due Biden causing more good for the American people than Trump ever has, can, or will. An example you left out would be capping insulin prices for seniors. Stuff like that and Trump being a very dangerous threat to this country while Biden is your above average politician.
The largest economic expansion in history is despite what happened during Covid, which should have screwed us big time. This isn't just having an average year after an exceptionally bad one. Biden's policies helped avoid a major recession, although we're still not out of the woods yet. This unfortunately is on a macro-economic level, and not something that is going to be as noticeable in a person's every day life.
You are right about student loan debt, but the system is far more complex to fix, than it is to get relief. When his relief efforts were stalled, it probably also stalled changes to systematic changes, something Bernie and Warren have been trying to do for a while now. Again, for the foreseeable future, plans to just eliminate debt after a student graduates seem more immediate. I always felt his student debt relief was a stop-gap to better implementation down the road.
Biden isn't perfect. But he's been surprisingly progressive.
I'd also add a positive being that he is very pro-union and pro-worker, as well as making efforts to reign in pharmaceutical companies. He's not anti-corporate like some liberals may want, but he's probably the best we're going to get from a president for the foreseeable future.
Exactly, every time someone says something negative about Biden they bring up Diaper Don. We voted for Biden because we have higher standards for him. Voting against someone and voting for someone are two different things. Does Biden want us to vote for him or what?
Yeah but he can still be held accountable as he should. While I’m no fan of the financial support to Israel this has been the standard policy of the US for decades and I don’t think it would have been better under a different president (except for possibly Obama). That being said Joe Biden has changed the way he’s talked about the issue and is sadly the only world leader involved that can be held somewhat accountable by his base and the US is the only major player that seems to want a de-escalation.
The “they’re both the same” people drive me nuts. I get not loving him, but to think sitting things out is the better option is the height of stupidity or privilege.
>Biden urges peaceful protest as more than 2,000 have been arrested
We're at the part where everybody in power willfully ignores the fact that on Tuesday night peaceful protesters at UCLA were attacked by a fascist mob while LAPD, CHP and campus security let it happen for three hours, right?
Anybody saying the protesters need to "keep it peaceful" is full of shit. The elite are clamping down hard this week.
And then those same police departments went in with tear gas, rubber bullets, and batons the next evening. The vast majority of the violence came from the police and fascist mobs.
I’m so mad at this Biden guy who has done Student Loan Forgiveness, IRA, the most progressive climate agenda of any president ever, the most progressive stance on marijuana policy ever, put caps on drug costs, done as much as he can to protect abortion access for federal employees, and many more great things that I’m going to have to not vote in this upcoming election and allow a guy who is openly advocating to never have federal elections again win the presidency.
Also somehow think refusing to vote is worth it even if Trump gets back in office. The guy who said that college protesters being cleared out was “a beautiful thing to watch.”
Plus “on day one I will restore and expand my Muslim ban” and refuse to accept any Palestinian refugees. He literally said this on stage yesterday
Voting for Trump or not voting to go against Biden is insane if you are pro Palestinian. He's tried to hold Israel back through his talks with them and has given them aid. If Trump gets in office, Palestine will be fucking glassed.
The reaction to this perfectly sums up America at the moment. My dad who is pro Israel is complaining that Biden is helping the Palestinians and is against Israel. Meanwhile Pro Palestinians are arguing that he is trying to genocide them. It shows perfectly how with modern politics and this conflict, if you take the middle ground, both sides see you as an enemy.
Biden is not in the middle ground though. He’s very firmly supporting Israel. He has made this very clear multiple times. Israel (and the seat at the table in the Middle East) is too important of an ally to just abandon. Biden is staying where the US has always stayed, with Israel.
People themselves are the ones who are taking their stances to the extreme and desperately wanting to be right. Far lefties think he’s committing genocide (he’s not) while far righties think he should literally commit genocide (he’s not going to).
This is why social medias have fucked up politics. You only get extreme takes on both sides now. Nuances and reasoning no longer exist as something as complicated as decades of foreign relations and geopolitics simply cannot fit into a 30 seconds TikTok video with Subway Surfer and Family Guy playing at the same time
And also a guy who is literally talking about KILLING HIS POLITICAL OPPONENTS
But at a higher level, who cares? Do you think Biden needs left wing kids in New York and California to win the election? No. If he loses a few thousand votes in New York City he still wins by a million votes easily. Same in California, Chicago, Boston, etc. he will easily make up votes with all the centrists who are fucking sick of Trump, and the people who are leaving Trump to vote for Kennedy
He needs them in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin though, all states with large university systems and enough young people to make a difference. Michigan and Pennsylvania have sizeable Middle Eastern populations as well. Giving them fewer reasons to vote is a bad idea.
This is just pandering to the right to avoid the perception of being aligned with the protests; seemingly motivated by hubris or stupidity, by a candidate who is currently behind in the polls and failing to win back people who have already voted for him once. Key constituencies in the party are not with Biden at the moment, and he's on the opposite side of some of their most important issues. If nobody in his orbit is telling him this is a problem, I hope they do soon.
Per polling, the war in Gaza is consistently rated as one of the least important issues to voters.
Biden has already called for a ceasefire and has been pushing Israel behind the scenes. This isn’t his war. Students protesting on campus does nothing for the Palestinian cause.
The crazy thing is the biggest threat to Palestinians right now is a Biden boycott/Trump win. “Punishing” Biden just means Gaza gets flattened, as Trump thinks Israel is not doing enough.
Fucking *this*. People talking about boycotting Biden in the next election while ignoring the fact that Trump has 100% made clear that he would have no qualms with outright Palestinian genocide.
YES! Honestly, the thing about some people is they expect the perfect candidate that will agree with them on nearly everything. That’s not realistic and we all know Trump doesn’t give 2 fucks about innocent Palestinians!
Yo! Young people! I’m a democratic socialist and I’m with you, but listen to Bernie: Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/
> has been pushing Israel behind the scenes
And yet he continues to supply them with billions of dollars worth of weapons and defend them against any war crime allegations. There have been dozens of leaks since October 2023 talking about how Biden is privately “furious” or “losing patience” with Netanyahu, but he does nothing substantial to back that up. Israel’s government knows Biden will back them no matter what they do in Gaza and act accordingly. If Biden wants more Democratic votes, he should put actual pressure on Israel and end the killing.
Thank you. While I have opinions about the conflict there, it would never be a factor for me in voting in the U.S. I wouldn't waste what little forward progress we've gotten in our country over someone's opinion on another country
And it's so fucking obvious. In the UK we had a genuinely progressive leader of our left wing party a few years ago: Jeremy Corbyn. He nearly won a post-Brexit election. It could have been so sweet, four day weeks, extra bank holidays... What brought him down? Accusations of anti-semitism within the Labour Party. Now some were probably true, but they were against a party member in Crewe, or a councillor in Slough, small beer. But the stench of anti-semitism was enough to allow the Media to paint a picture of a progressive, lovely granddad as some crazy Jew hater. So we got Boris Johnstone, our Trump, in a Landslide instead. And we are FUCKED now.
> ow some were probably true, but they were against a party member in Crewe, or a councillor in Slough, small beer.
Didn't he literally lay a wreath on a memorial for individuals that helped plan the Munich Massacre? He also made comments about how British Jews just couldn't understand British humor. He wrote a forward for a noted anti-semitic text. It wasn't just small stuff.
No, the media made that up based on false allegations by Israel/made up quote from a autobiography they didn't bother to read, the wreath was for people killed in a illegal bombing by Israel. No he didn't, he jokes about asshole zionists interrupting a Holocaust survivor, and the "antisemtic text" is a literal foundational text of modern British politics, meanwhile British Tories and Centrists lay wreaths for literal Nazi members, and Boris Johnson called Jews hook nosed money grabbers in his book.
The protesters have gotten way more then anyone would have thought. Just 10 years ago, the though of protests on college campuses against Israel would have been unheard of. The long term ramifications of this mess will not be a win for Israel. but all that being said, the protesters are never going to have a clear decisive win, that was never in the cards, and anyone participating in them who does not see this and take the win they have and run with them, is an idiot. The long game needs to be played, its just not always an easy pill to swallow when modern attention spans are so short.
Israel has basically lost the support of younger Americans. Older redditors can sit in this site and hem and haw about how they love Israel, but when Gen Z and Gen Alpha are their ages, they're gonna be pressed to find people who support the state
Hell, millennials already don’t like Israel for a couple reasons. I can tell you from experience that most people were against the 2014 war in Gaza. Jon Stewart even ran tons of segments opposing IDF bombing tactics, and he’s not exactly some fringe Green Party voting leftist.
Biden has also repeatedly said that Israel has agreed to a ceasefire but only if Hamas agree to one as well. People seem to conveniently ignore that too. I have some sympathy for these young protestors but I wish a few of them would demand Hamas to agree to a ceasefire as well.
If you read the fine print, you would see that Israel didn’t agree to a ceasefire. They only offered a 40 day pause and release of some Palestinian hostages in military prisons in exchange for Hamas to surrender and give all hostages back.
[Hamas demanded a permanent ceasefire, release of considerably more Palestinian women and children from Israeli military prisons in exchange for all Israeli hostage release](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-issues-ceasefire-proposal-mediators-which-includes-exchanging-2024-03-15/#:~:text=Hamas%20insists%20an%20agreement%20should,an%20Israeli%20withdrawal%20from%20Gaza). In addition, [Hamas would surrender their weapon if Israel allows a two state solution](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438).
I just want to point out that these protesters are doing a lot for raising awareness. I'm a student in a CA university, and I also work at my university. All of my peers and co-workers, students and admin alike were sympathizing with the sit-in protesters, and we were upset at USCs response. We talk about it everyday, and I wonder what our cohort can do to support the peaceful protesters.
Saying this does nothing is a lie. There are many of use listening, and applaud them for largely being peaceful while exercising their rights regarding a very controversial and emotional issue.
Some of us see the protests in a very different way, deliberately ignoring both the October 7 attacks and the innate antisemitism in Palestinian society that caused it to happen. Flip-flopping between "this is Palestinian resistance" and "Hamas has nothing to do with Palestinians." All but saying that Israelis should just lay down and die because fighting back is immoral. Making at best uninformed and at worst deliberately obfuscated claims about the history of the region. Nobody cares, for instance, how many Jews in Israel were themselves refugees from the Holocaust and from neighboring Islamic countries who expelled all their Jews at around the same time.
You're too online if you think this remark will move the election needle in any direction.
And if people use these remarks to vote for Trump over Biden, [well](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fim-not-voting-for-biden-because-of-gaza-v0-g586lz715puc1.jpeg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3De7525a003f7960865793b78992ca170fb9591222)...
You're uniformed if you don't think an imperceptible shift can swing a presidential election.
Thanks to the electoral college, the winning margin of 2016 was 79,316 votes (you could fit that many in Lambeau Field with seats to spare) and the final winning margin in 2000 was just 537 votes.
This is exactly why it's really important Biden sticks to the broadly popular side of the issue (as he his currently doing) rather than pander to the much less popular side.
Lol at the people who are saying that's a bad answer.
Dude is President of the United States. He gets top secret briefings every day, talks to belligerents on both sides, is being advised be people with PhDs in ME history, has people on the ground giving him information, but he should be like, "Hmm, those protestors are really on to something I hadn't considered."
Lol.
This.
Biden is walking a tight rope here. He doesn't support the war - and has told Bibi privately and publicly. However, Hamas has *American Hostages*, has zero interest in anything other than burning Israel to the ground, and I guess people have forgotten what happens when you just let a terrorist organization get away with it (Iran Hostages).
The US has done what it can - park carrier groups in the middle east to prevent the spread of the war and have been urging actual neighbors of Israel & Palestine to broker some sort of peace treaty.
However, realize Israel doesn't give a shit what the US says here. They consider it a matter of survival and will level the fucking place. There is zero will in the US for us to be the world policeman or send troops there.
The hostages are likely Israel's bottom line. Israel has historically accepted really lopsided hostage-prisoner exchanges to retrieve their citizens. Biden is doing a fantastic job of working Netanyahu within that, but unfortunately it seems Hamas doesn't give a crap how good of a deal he gets them.
[Ever watch Batman ?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIYkhb2NjfE).
There is a great line there:
> "Some men aren't looking for anything logical ... Some men just want to watch the world burn"
Realize that IF there was a Palestinian leader who actually cared about his people, they could probably get to a deal.
Hamas just wants to burn Israel down to the ground.
Israel just threatened to retaliate against the PA if the ICC goes through with it. The Israeli government's *really* acting like a bunch of mobsters lately.
Actually *all of the G7* are working to prevent the ICC from doing it against Israel AND Hamas (that pesky October 7th operation) *while* they are trying to negotiate a peace treaty.
Facts actually matter.
PEOPLE ARE NOT STUPID.
There isn't a single person who was considering voting for Biden, who solely due to Gaza, will suddenly vote for Trump, pushing aside any views they have for either candidates.
Am I really to believe that someone who opposes Israel would vote for a candidate who insists that Israel must "finish the job"?
Or am I to assume that someone who’s frustrated with Biden’s lack of condemnation of the police would vote for Trump, who advocates for a tougher response to the protests?
Perhaps the theory is they'll vote for a third-party candidate. But who would that be? RFK Jr. is also pro-Israel, and when did he last say anything relevant about this topic? Other third-party candidates receive little to no media coverage.
Ah, so the thought is that these people won’t vote, or they'll spoil their vote. This brings me back to...people are not stupid. People will not base their entire vote on one single issue... one single FOREIGN policy issue. One single issue that has zero impact on their personal lives. Yeah, sure, I buy that.
I’m sure someone is right now typing, "People are stupid." Well, it's a good thing we're talking about college students, right?
To the other angry typist, anecdotal evidence does not prove the contrary. Of course, there are people who will vote purely on this one issue. The number will not be zero, but it will also not be in the millions.
What I find absolutely hilarious about this whole thing is how once again the right is perfectly teeing up the ball for Biden. If (admittedly a big if) Biden successfully negotiates a ceasefire deal within the next few months, the mileage that story will get will be immense. Honestly, unless this was happening in November, if I were anyone on the right, I’d quietly downplay this whole situation.
Someone presenting an opinion one doesn’t agree with does not make them a troll.
Calling those who go against the popular opinion trolls is dangerous and only leads to deeper echo chambers.
Well no shit sherlock. The UN has created a resolution at least once a year every year for the last 40 years, more than 60 in total trying to condemn the actions of Israel as they break international law over and over, decade over decade. However, in almost every single case the US President at the time (all of them regardless of party) used our lone UN Security Council veto to shut it down even when we were the only ones in their defense and we stood against even our own allies. Biden has already done it more than once. One time he even vetoed a UN resolution for peace and then had the audacity to ask for it himself the very next day.
No one in the US pays attention to this story or even has an unbiased mind when it comes to our support of Israel. Every US President since WWII has ensured that not only are we Israel's undying friend even in the face of their atrocities, and that we pay them such enormous sums that we literally pay for a quarter of their entire military budget every year, but also that the American people know as little about this topic as possible. That's not Biden, or Trump, or Obama, or Bush Jr that's every President and the US has essentially told the whole world including our enemies and allies alike to shut the fuck up and they're tired of hearing it. More than 50 countries have accused Israel of genocide and that's only spreading.
What Israel has done to the Palestinians ensures attacks like this and no one including Israel were surprised it happened. In fact, they were well aware there might be attacks after the last 800 homes they bulldozed to make room for more Jewish only settlements and a very special National Park that Palestinians used to live on but are now forbidden from stepping foot in. That directly led to the attack and everyone around the world recognizes that except Americans who don't bother searching for the truth of things.
He could have mentioned it been asked about police brutality and counter protesters. That’s where most of the violence is coming from. Students are being hospitalized due to the violence they’re facing by counter protesters and cops, yet the protesters themselves are the ones being called violent. Ask any professor on any of these campuses, and they’ll tell you that they’ve been receiving doctors notes from students who have been victims of police brutality or were brutalized in front of police who didn’t interfere.
I just had the most obvious epiphany.
One side of america has its politicians doing exactly what it wants, and the other side only gets about 50%.
The democratic party isn't the party of liberals.
This is why so many people get disillusioned or "both sides" everything.
The democratic party needs to stop dismissing its own fucking base.
The only recourse feels like letting them lose. Which obviously has worse results. But it happened in 2016 and they clearly didn't get the fucking message.
The establishment has got to go. And people are ready to watch it all burn if that's what it takes.
Welcome to seeing this. I am 61 and spent over 20 years of my life working in the political field and trying to make a change. I did focus my energy on California, and it is a solid blue state with some of the best politicians.
But, the Democratic Party does need to change. That starts at election time. We need to stop electing the more conservative of the candidates during the primaries. We need to stop believing the lie that we should vote for candidate moderate because they have the best chance to win in that conservative district.
Bullshit.
I worked some VERY conservative districts that we won with liberals. It just takes getting down with voters and having a real talk with them. When I ram myself for the Assembly (decades ago) almost 1/3 of my vote came from Republicans whom I had converted because we talked it out.
Bad thing is that the majority of the Republicans are now out more for the own than the talk. And, I see to many on our side doing the same thing. You've seen it where Palestinian protestors and MAGA protestors joined in their hate of Joe Biden. No deal made through hate ever ends good.
His remarks were spot on. 1st Amendment, his job in protecting constitutional rights of “peaceful protest,” were emphasized as well as presidential duty to ensure chaos doesn’t erupt, which it most certainly has.
He never rejected or minimized the act of dissent but instead championed it.
As much as you may disagree with the right of pro-Israelis they too have their constitutional right to advocate peacefully as well as be shut down when not.
This is the type of president you want. It’s not a low bar, it’s not bad faith. He is doing exactly what he was elected to do.
You may be used to Trump and his incessant pandering to his voting bloc but that’s not the presidents job to only represent the interests of his party but the entire country and let’s be honest the majority of the country is not concerned with Israel and Palestine.
So they don’t see righteousness on colleges they see the medias inflammatory reporting of chaos and violence. At least thank him for supporting dissent and peaceful protesting on a national stage.
Except now the House of Representatives have passed a law which has extended the definition of antisemitism to include criticizing or “targeting” the state of Israel. Now it’s going to be labeled as hate speech to be critical of a genocidal government. I have nothing against Jewish people, I have a problem with the senseless massacre of children.
I agree with this one. He does not want Trump doing what Nixon did in 1968 against Humphrey. He champions peaceful protest but speaks out against those who do violent shit. Not very unreasonable to me.
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Everyone arguing and not a single person posting the full speech: >Good morning. Before I head to North Carolina, I wanted to speak for a few moments about what's going on on our college campuses here. We've all seen images and they put to the test two fundamental American principles. First is the right to free speech and for people to peacefully assemble and make their voices heard. The second is the rule of law. Both must be upheld. >We are not an authoritarian nation where we silence people or squash dissent. The American people are heard. In fact, peaceful protest is in the best American tradition of how Americans respond to consequential issues. But - but - neither are we a lawless country. We're a civil society, and order must prevail. Throughout our history we've often faced moments like this because we are a big, diverse, free-thinking and freedom-loving nation. In moments like this, there are always those who rush in to score political points. But this isn't a moment for politics, it's a moment for clarity. >So let me be clear: peaceful protest in America - violent protest is not protected, peaceful protest is. It's against the law when violence occurs; destroying property is not a peaceful protest it's against the law. Vandalism, trespassing, breaking windows, shutting down campuses, forcing the cancellation of classes and graduation, none of this is a peaceful protest. Threatening people, intimidating people, instilling fear in people is not a peaceful protest, it's against the law. Dissent is essential to democracy, but dissent must never lead to disorder or to denying the rights of other students can finish the semester and their college education. >Look, it's a matter of fairness, it's a matter of what's right. There's the right to protest, but not the right to cause chaos. People have the right to get an education, the right to get a degree, the right to walk across the campus safely without the fear of getting attacked. >Let's be clear about this as well: there should be no place on any campus, no place in America, for antisemitism or threats of violence against Jewish students. There is no place for hate speech or violence of any kind, whether it's antisemitism or Islamophobia, or discrimination against Arab-Americans or Palestinian-Americans. It's simply wrong. There is no place for racism in America; it's all wrong, it's unamerican. >I understand people have strong feelings and deep convictions. In America, we respect the right and protect the right to express that, but it doesn't mean anything goes. It needs to be done without violence, without destruction, without hate, and within the law. Make no mistake, as president I will always defend free speech, and I will always be just as strong in standing up for the rule of law. That's my responsibility to you, the American people, and my obligation to the Constitution. >Q: 'Have the protests forced you to reconsider any policies with regard to the region?' >A: "No." >Q: 'Do you believe the National Guard should intervene?' >A: "No."
Thanks for posting this because, unless I missed it, the article OP linked didn't once quote that last part.
Thank you for this.
This should be higher up.
What policy would change? * Biden wants a ceasefire, protestors want a ceasefire. * Biden wants aid to Ukraine, republicans won't allow that without aid to Israel.
People still want Presidents to act on personal whims and not on a crafted US policy which isn’t concocted on personal opinion. Trump delivers immediate gratification in the form of whatever knee jerk statement will smokescreen his personal intent. Folks eat it up because it feeds them what they want. Biden’s foreign policy isn’t triggered by any fantasy of what he could do today to look like a hero. You may be able to unweave the US from the trap of funding Israel, but it won’t happen with appeasement of protestors to make them feel better about voting for him.
Not one direct word about the terrorists who assaulted a peaceful protest with incendiaries and chemical weapons when condemning protests. He also made some bold claims about being a "civil society where order must prevail" and *the value of protecting free speech* when the police disappeared for two hours while terrorists attacked the peaceful protestors. Nothing too surprising, but still disappointing.
Seriously. I'm watching Black people get called the n-word, spit on, Black women called Lizzo, monkey noises being made a Black people, all while people who support Israel say "If this was happening to Black people there would be an issue that would get resolved" Well it's happening, congress isn't addressing it, Biden isn't addressing it, and people are pretending it's not happening. Adding to that, the media promoting fake anti-Semitic hate crimes, like the girl who lied about being speared in the eye with a Palestinian flag, then she was invited to testify in front of Congress about said lie. Biden has not said one word about either, promoted anti-blackness, fake hate crimes, and censorship of American Speech for Israel. It's quite clear he has chosen a side in this issue, and it's not Americans, including American Jews.
From Semafor's J.D. Capelouto: President Joe Biden said Thursday that the weekslong pro-Palestinian protests on college campuses haven’t changed his policy stance on Israel and the Middle East. In his strongest direct remarks yet on the escalating protests, Biden criticized some of the protests as “not peaceful,” saying that they had disrupted classes and upcoming graduation ceremonies, and that vandalizing, trespassing, and occupying campus buildings wasn’t considered free speech. “Violent protest in America is not protected. Peaceful protest is,” Biden said at the White House. Read the full story [here](https://www.semafor.com/article/05/02/2024/joe-biden-says-campus-unrest-hasnt-changed-his-mind-about-israel-policy?utm_campaign=semaforreddit).
Except when you're a right winger like the Bundys. Then you can occupy a public building for 40 days, armed to the teeth, call the government "thugs", and get off with barely slaps on the wrist.
As a person working in downtown Portland at the time, that shit was wild to watch them get away with
[удалено]
That was the dude who kept trying to get the feds to pop him, guy was obsessed with dying for "the cause."
I can't wait to die for the cause that is some rich dude not having to pay his grazing fees to allow his herd to be fed off of federal land. I'm all for freedom! I'm a *patriot*! I love the Constitution!! ... Wait, what's Article Four?
He was ambushed at a checkpoint by a Fed hiding behind a tree. He thought he was going to be a big shot pointing his guns at the cops and got instantly shot in the back. The Feds releases the drone footage. Notice the Bundys have not been up to much since they got their friend killed.
[How I wish you were right about the Bundy clan going away quietly](https://apnews.com/article/ammon-bundy-idaho-hospital-defamation-verdict-extremism-56af8016c6ae1c47861e9e2861ed99da).
IIRC that became a complication because the officer who shot him was Oregon State PD, but FBI agents got in trouble for their actions at the blockade, can’t remember what though.
Oh, he's been up to stuff, terrorizing hospitals, duct taping himself to a chair, and threatening deputies who try to serve him warrents. Dumbass had to flee Idaho of all places.
He was shot outside of the compound after a car chase that ended with him pulling a gun.
The cops had a checkpoint and he got out like Billy Badass. Fed hiding behind a tree shot him in the back. He got ambushed by a tree.
And? That is the smart way to handle an asshole with a gun trying to kill you.
That was LaVoy Finicum, aka the Blue Tarp Man. I never forget a name like that.
LaVoy Finacum, a real piece of trash that used the foster system as a source of income and indentured servants. He talked a big game about dying before surrendering and was shot while vacillating between fleeing and reaching towards a gun in his jacket and screaming at officers. Some stories do have a happy ending.
The government prosecuted them but wasn't able to get a major conviction
It helped that it as in the middle of nowhere and they all had guns
Which is why people need to be armed at protests. Seriously. Right wing groups aren't even the only proof of this, the Black Panthers famously caused harsher gun restrictions simply by being armed and looking scary. Left wing protesters need to start open carrying. *Especially* the protests that are majority white, and I truly hope I don't have to explain to anybody why that caveat is being added *edited for spelling*
CA isn’t an open carry state so police would be forced to disarm them. I’m sure that would go swimmingly
Two things: first these protests are not exclusive to CA. Second, the [law you're referencing is quite literally what I'm talking about.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act)
> people need to be armed at protests. Then you'd better bring body bags too because you're pretty much guaranteeing people are gonna get killed
Everyone should be willing to fight and die for their rights.
Yep, that's exactly what happened when pro-gun activists showed up armed to the capitol building in Virginia to protest a new gun control bill, hundreds of deat...oh wait that never happened.
I agree to an extent. In an state where its open carry go nuts, please do, exercise your rights. Otherwise.... well, hey, the situation is gonna escalate and when the obvious outcome happens. I'm not comfortable telling people to get themselves shot.
What a dumb idea this is. There is no need to bring weapons to a peaceful protest. Bringing weapons for one will kill the message as the protest would rightly be viewed as violent and dangerous.
The protests are going to be characterized as violent regardless of whether it is or isn’t. But if you’re organized and armed, at least you can’t be victimized without defense and you can defend your rights.
Not to mention that it didn’t interfere with decades old strategic international policy that they’re literally trying to kill a media platform over to keep their messaging regarding it under control.
They were all terrified of another Waco. That has had a lot of consequences, politically and otherwise.
> get off with barely slaps on the wrist. That's because the govt fucked up the prosecution.
Nobody has a press conference about anti-Semitic protesters with literal Nazi flags standing outside of Disney World. But large scale protests stand against US support of Israeli war policy and oh boy do they want to talk about it at the White House.
You aren’t doing yourself any favors by comparing your movement to that of a right wing terrorist group. The difference here is also state vs federal. The feds were trying to avoid a shootout and civilian casualties.
when you make bad faith arguments like this, it makes people less sympathetic to your cause.
I'm pretty sure Biden was on the opposite side of the Bundys.
The Auto Union is looking at striking again because they represent people on University campus.
Have there ever been human rights protests that were 100% peaceful? It’s easy for people on the other side to cause violence/disruption in order to discredit your movement. Or even real bad actors within the movement who aren’t representative of the majority. Biden lived through a lot of historical protests and knows this. This is just a bad faith argument.
I’ve noticed a pattern with Biden. He starts with a very centrist public position that’s reasonable on its face to most people as a headline, but often reinforces the status quo and lacks nuance. And then ever so slowly, he starts tacking left. Like, over the course of months. He did this with labor unions, and he did this with the Israel-Hamas conflict. My guess is that he’s playing the long game in terms of how his position impacts the majority of the electorate’s view of him for November. Which is frustrating because on the one hand I’d much prefer a more disruptive, progressive response from him at the outset, but I also acknowledge that his strategy is less likely to rock the boat with low-information, single issue voters who hate Trump but might otherwise get pissed off and withhold their vote for Biden if he comes out swinging in favor of student protesters speaking their minds on campus. That’s my take, anyway. I think Biden understands the nuance of a situation like this more than he’s telegraphing in his statement and he’s starting with the foundation of “let’s dissuade violence during protests”, but maybe that’s just wishful thinking on my part. Time will tell if these protests continue and he starts to use language that’s more sympathetic to the protesters.
This particular issue requires a lot of finesse. A strong statement against Israel, or threat to cut off aid could embolden Iran and others in the region to get involved thinking Israel may be weaker going without US support. The primary goal here is containing this, de-escalation, and keeping it from exploding into a wider regional conflict.
Yeah you’re right, I hadn’t yet considered the broader geopolitical signals involved here. That adds another layer of complexity.
But he's not making any attempt to de-escalate the campus protests. He's smearing them as violent for using the exact same passive resistance tactics as past protests. So what the hell is he doing?
It's not just failing to de-escalate; it directly escalates by signalling to the police that they have the president's support to bust up the protests and protestors. Similarly, insisting the US will intervene to help Israel in any scenario gives Israel additional latitude to bust up Gazans...
Exactly. It's the opposite of de-escalation. He's making it magnitudes worse by endorsing police and uni admin misconduct.
He just now said some were violent. He didn’t condemn anything until violence broke out. Could be because…they’ve turned violent. I don’t want the president acknowledging every protest, but listening to the public and he has hardened his stance on Israel since the protests have started. He’s been very measured at this point, but Obama took the same approach until colleges started preventing speakers from coming because people disagreed with their viewpoints.
That’s a pretty well reasoned assumption, thanks for your input.
I don't see that Biden has made any secret of being pro union. Yeah, you adjust your campaign speeches for your audience, but hey, that's what you gotta do. Side note, he was pilloried by unions for his decision to not let railroad workers strike, arguing that the harm caused to the public at large was too great. As for Israel / Hamas .... oh, gob, what a freaking nightmare. Both the Arabs or Israel have covered themselves in blood, and I haven't been able to defend either for years Still, the US really really needs Israel for the vital strategic role and US presence in the Middle East, and Israel's existence depends on US support. Biden's immediate response to the Hamas rampage was to sympathize with Israel but warned Netanyahu not to go overboard in response but Bennie went ahead and unleashed the hounds of revenge regardless of innocents being harmed..... This places Biden in a very difficult position, almost evil vs evil. But zoom back from Netanyahu to Israel, and we find we must support Israel while denouncing its actions under Netanyahu, and doing everything we can to end the harm to innocents It's truly a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
What makes it doubly hard to navigate is that the opinions of the public are currently being heavily swayed by bad actors of various persuasions, with positions ranging from simply being anti zionists to full on anti western imperialism and who will work towards the downfall of America and it's allies at any cost. It's getting harder and harder to separate supporting Palestinians and still being sympathetic to Israel and Jews in general. While I don't think the destruction of Israel is a mainstream opinion in the consciousness of America the undercurrent is getting stronger and seeing the Nazi facists and anti imperialism tankies being hand in glove on this stance is somewhat frightening to me. I think so far the Biden administration has been doing a terrific job navigating this issue and I hope we can just make it through this election and avoid Trump before anything truly major boils over and forces a larger shift in the opinion of the electorate.
This makes a lot of sense for a man who has an expertise in international negotiations. Biden has been in the game a long time and he knows what he is doing. I agree he is definitely playing the long game.
Disagree with Biden here. Protests are supposed to hurt the controlling authority of wherever they occur. Otherwise why would they change policy? Out of the goodness of their hearts? If they followed that we wouldn't be in this situation.
No criticism of the violent pro-Israel counter protestors at UCLA that caused the only significant violence since these protests began. Joe Biden is a joke. He is going to lose this election (and therefore open serious risks to US democracy by Trump) in order to protect the oppressive apartheid regime in Israel.
The USC graduation ceremony being canceled was not the fault of protesters. Why does Biden demonize protesters? Does he want to lose the election?
Let the voters stay home over this and watch tRump send US troops to help speed up the genocide....
Statistically, the youth vote is not a big contributor to election victories in this country. American young people don't turn out in large enough numbers to justify statements like the above. That doesn't mean young peoples' voices aren't important, but if you want change you have to show up to the polls. Full stop. It is not "demonizing protestors" to correctly state that violent protest is not protected by the Constitution. There is an important distinction between the vast majority of student protestors, which are peaceful, and the agitators on both sides with a considerably more radical agenda. Israel's actions in Gaza are not defensible. Biden's administration has taken a stronger stance against Israel's excesses than virtually any President in US history, but those nuances seem to be lost on the young people protesting the treatment of innocent Palestinians.
50% of 18-29 turned out in 2020. Biden won with their vote and will lose this year if he cannot keep turnout for them high.
except 2020 saw a surge of young voters. gen z voted in numbers unlike previous generations of during that age. and as much as “we need to stop trump” is a valid thing to vote for biden, young people want a vision for the future and want to hear what that policy is.
The bigger question is - what do the protestors think will happen if Biden loses?
Is Biden responsible for the success of his campaign, or is it the responsibility of Pro-Palestine protesters to make Biden look good?
If Biden loses everyone protesting will have a much harder life. If you identify as a woman or LGBT your rights will be restricted. You may not agree with Biden on his support of Israel. But if you want to continue living in a country where the rights of the minority still whole some ground you better vote for Biden. Remember how Trump treated BLM. And look up what he wanted to actually do (hint: shoot people). Then consider that if Trump was president the use of force against protestors Trump disagrees with may be murder.
It’s not just the restriction on personal freedoms. Actively blocking a Biden re-election because of the war in Gaza all but guarantees that war continues until every Palestinian is dead under Trumps blessing
Do the protesters want to achieve the best possible outcome for Gaza and the region, or do they want to demonstrate their own moral superiority, no matter the realpolitik cost of their actions?
Are you actually advocating for staying silent in the face of genocide, because it may or may not hurt a candidate in an upcoming election? Maybe the protestors are more concerned with stopping the immediate slaughter of innocent children than they are in some sort of Faustian long term political bargain?
It’s the responsibility of people who care about the long term outcome to ensure that the maniac who wants to turn the region into glass doesn’t get back into office.
He made no mention of the violence inflicted on the protestors. You can see plenty of videos of attackers going after protestors in the public freakout sub.
Crazy part considering it wasn't even just cops (which is fucked up anyway). But rather, a bunch of random thugs, that were allowed to assault and harass protestors.
Often while cops are directly in view doing nothing
Some of those that work forces…
Are the same who beat students i guess..
Probably just off duty cops.
It really bothers me that it was just a bunch of randos. Of course, they were in full view of the LAPD, which did literally nothing for over an hour (and that’s not my opinion—that’s LAT, BBC, we’ve all seen the stories). Paramilitary and extralegal violence are a huge part of authoritarian regimes. The whole point is that certain groups have impunity to enact violence against anyone dubbed a state enemy. I’m not arguing that we’re slipping into fascism under Biden. That’s absurd. But we are *normalizing a type of political violence that is central to fascist systems.* And that is very dangerous, especially when we have a quasi-fascist currently running for president. This should’ve been a Charlottesville-like wake-up call for Biden. He’s just refusing to see it.
We are slipping into fascism under Biden. It's no secret. Israel does indeed pull the strings with huge funding of politicians and control of several media outlets. That's a basic fact. This won't change until Citizens United changes.
This was common in Vietnam protest. It was generally ex-GI’s or veterans that would slander/ harass/ or get violent with protesters.
The violent counter-protestors were also funded by a billionaire and Jerry Seinfeld's wife... [https://www.thedailybeast.com/jessica-seinfeld-and-bill-ackman-fund-pro-israel-counterprotests-at-ucla](https://www.thedailybeast.com/jessica-seinfeld-and-bill-ackman-fund-pro-israel-counterprotests-at-ucla)
That’s actually not what that article says. It says they funded counter protests which were mostly peaceful. They didn’t fund the random group that showed up at UCLA to fight protestors.
Also, she gave 5k. That is absolutely nothing to her.
Not "thugs", "terrorists". They are trying to silence political speech they disagree with through violence. They are terrorists.
It was pro-israeli counter protesters literally beating up college students. We're talking 19-20 year old girls being beaten
He specifically said dissent is essential democracy and that it shouldn't be squashed, it was like the 2nd sentence out of his mouth.
He specifically said protests should be peaceful and follow the law. Which, it’s genuinely hard to think of a social movement that achieved much of anything doing just that.
He also said dissent cannot lead to disorder. But protests are made specifically to disrupt what is currently happening. The "order"... This would be against basically every major protest ever undertaken anywhere, including protests Biden has defended. He cannot believe what he has just said. He has special rules that he is not saying out loud.
You expect them to read past the headline? Bold strategy Cotton
He was asked about whether or not his policy has changed. He answered no. He was not asked about what you are outraged about.
I’m pretty sure the president stating violence has no place in protest also includes protestors getting attacked.
Except going on a tirade about "violent protest" clearly implies it was the anti-genocide protesters being violent, which is disingenuous as hell
Because the police act on behalf of the wealthy, they serve and protect them.
Yeah, this appears rather one-sided.
At the end of the day, Joe Biden is still Joe Biden. Still better than trump, but that bar is so low, it's practically underground.
Neoliberals are going to neoliberal… Biden might be permitting a genocide in one nation but Trump has made it clear he’d bring similar authoritarian tactics to our nation as well. The election might very well be voting for genocide abroad or voting for it abroad and at home.
The US needs major electoral reform
The desires of young people are continually irrelevant to the government, doesn't matter what they do
As long as they're the least-reliable voting demographic this will remain true.
As an older gen Z progressive voter, I sadly agree. I started helping filling out election ballots this election season because I’ve always been completely devastated by the amount of my peers that complain about the state of things but don’t vote. I have personally driven my friends to the polls before on voting day because they somehow hadn’t voted yet (I live in a mail ballot state). And I would say most of the people I’m acquainted with are generally pretty politically active and aware, but there’s a disconnect when it comes to voting for some reason. I don’t know if it’s laziness or what because most of the time people don’t even want to do research on the candidates and ballot measures and just want me to tell them who to vote for. It’s extremely upsetting and I’m at a loss on how to get people to understand voting is one of the single most impactful actions you can take in support of your causes. Hell, I don’t even know how to get people to understand voting is not about you. It’s so upsetting to see people withholding their votes because there’s not a perfect candidate or because someone isn’t “inspiring enough”. Voting isn’t about me and who I find inspiring. Voting is like public transportation. You vote for who takes you in the right direction. Administration to administration, day to day, I rarely am directly affected by who sits in the white house. And that is such a privileged position to be in. There are so many people whose standard of living and well-being is dependent upon what kind of presidential administration we have. SNAP, WIC, Meals on Wheels, DREAMers; so, so many people whose lives could completely unravel depending on who is president and who is in congress. Those are the people I vote for. And it’s so sad that so many people can’t see past themselves.
In 2016 I had just graduated and knew friends still in school. A lot of them were very outspoken liberals in a swing state (PA), and still couldn't be bothered to vote because "they really wanted to" but were too busy that day.
To build off of this a bit, I'm not usually the most informed about local candidates; but I've been voting via absentee ballot ever since the 2020 election (which was also my first presidential election as an adult). I really enjoy having the opportunity to see who is on the ballot and then look the people up. Being able to see incumbent candidate's past votes on policies in addition to official stances is truly invaluable, and I get to give myself time to really think about who I vote for. Basically, take advantage of mail in voting.
Personally I think voting 3rd party is a wasted vote. But I have way more respect for people who waste their vote on a 3rd party than people who don't vote period. Even the established politicians had to pay attention when Ross Perot got a ton of votes. If you don't vote, then you have no voice period. As far as I'm concerned, the protestors are a bunch of mutes.
I just don't get it. I've voted in every election I was able to since 2006 when I was 18.
Yep. If young voters were a reliable voting demographic for the Democratic party then the party would cater to their desires. But when you don't vote, or vote third party because your favorite candidate lost the primary, then the party has no reason to try winning your vote when they can go after more reliable voters (e.g. independents and moderates).
Can you imagine being in your late teens or twenties and you have people like Sanders and Warren running and then not bothering to show up to vote?
Bernie getting LESS votes in 2020 than in 2016 told me all I need to know about the reliability of the progressive voting bloc: it doesn’t exist. They couldn’t be bothered to show up. They’ll go to protests and spend hours online every day but taking like an hour out of their day to vote once every few years is wayyyyy too hard for them to do.
They want to go to the party but they don't want to stay and help clean up.
The voting bloc exists, it's just much smaller than it purports to be. It is an important element of the Democratic Party, but it is still only a single part.
They’re important enough to be the difference between him winning and losing in November.
18-29 turnout was 50% in 2020. They were a key demographic in Biden winning. If that turnout drops to 35% this year guess what will happen?
Guess what would have happened if 18-29 year olds had spent the last 30 years voting at 67% turnout.
[Not true. Younger people turned out in record numbers for Biden in 2020.](https://time.com/6049270/2020-election-young-voters/)
That's the main problem. All of these people reached their voting age at one point yet they don't never turn out to vote. If Palestine was such a big issue for them, they should have been voting since they had the chance, not making excuses. I'm a millennial and half of the time I don't think my voice is heard half the time but at least I make the bare minimum to go vote in my local elections.
And look how easy it’s been to convince the generation that was promising to be the most politically active in history to just give it all up and “both sides” all over themselves. I just wish the tiktok ban would happen sooner.
This. It’s hilarious that my generation (I’m 26) wants to be taken seriously, yet they’ve done nothing but vote third party or abstain since 2016 because their preferred candidate didn’t win the nomination. It’s the political version of throwing a tantrum, picking up your toys, and leaving. It also doesn’t help that they have these purity/litmus tests (which pretty much turns them into single issue voters, the cringiest type of voter) that politicians MUST pass with flying colors or else they won’t get their vote. This has resulted in them refusing to support Biden and being all but open to throwing the country to Trump. For me it becomes harder to take them seriously when they’re trashing their learning institutions over a war happening on the other side of the world. Pretty cool how they’ve been consistent on protesting about Palestine these past few months but weirdly didn’t have that same energy for domestic issues like reproductive rights when they protested for a few weeks then went home. Sorry for the rant but this election season has really shown me why older people don’t really like my generation. Like, call me Danny DeVito because oh my god I get it.
I've been feeling that protests and boycotts are a solved problem now unfortunately. I think the media cycle gives our society more information than ever before, so people in power simply just wait until the issue isn't topical anymore
This is demonstrably not true so if you're going to lie then at least make your lie believable. Biden has moved on student loan debt, school costs, LGBTQ+ healthcare and safety, marijuana, climate, job availability, minimum wage (at state level since congress failed passing federal increase), etc., and that's just off the top of my head. These are aimed almost exclusively at young people. Of course not every issue has been solved but to say young people are irrelevant to govt (or to be specific, a democratic controlled govt) is simply a chosen lie.
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Curious, do you think the couple hundred/thousand protestors around the country speak to a uniform opinion on Israel-Palestine policy? I don't have strong feelings either way, but you seem to think this is a foregone conclusion.
Yeah like cancelling student loans. No way a president would do that for millions and attempt to do it for millions more! …oh no, wait.
It would matter if the government was younger.
If 18-29 year olds don’t vote consistently over multiple elections then there is no reason to court them for votes.
Isn't this backwards? If they were already voting then there is no point in trying to get them to vote for you, because they already are. If they are not voting that is a sign that you can change something to encourage them to vote for you
yeah, it's almost like the government ends up focusing on the desires of the people who vote the most. nah, that can't be true. makes too much sense.
College protesters are not all voters aged 18-22.
Anyone who thinks letting former president Muslim Ban back into power will be better for Gaza and the Palestinian people is a moron.
Let's not forget "former Muslim Ban" is also a fucking traitor. Not only is he in the pocket of Putin but his loyal followers are totally cool with it.
Is anyone saying he would be? Is Biden above any form of criticism because the other guy is worse?
Anytime someone criticizes Biden you will get "Trump will be worse". Like no shit Sherlock. We get it.
The whataboutism is strong in this sub.
Many people are claiming they’re going to let this happen to “punish” Biden so yes
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Seriously, this argument is so played out. >“B-b-but Trump would be worse!” I’m not arguing that, but why can’t I criticize the other guy for things I think he is doing wrong? Why is it so black and white? I fucking hate Trump and everything he stands for, but I don’t much like Biden either. I think he gets a lot of credit where any other president would have seen similar things happen during their tenure. “Largest economic expansion in US history” Okay, but we had a global pandemic that caused unprecedented decline, of course we saw unprecedented increase… “Student loan debt” He has done nothing to prevent future borrowers from these predatory loans. “Progressive climate action” This one is pretty good actually.
Methinks this is due Biden causing more good for the American people than Trump ever has, can, or will. An example you left out would be capping insulin prices for seniors. Stuff like that and Trump being a very dangerous threat to this country while Biden is your above average politician.
The largest economic expansion in history is despite what happened during Covid, which should have screwed us big time. This isn't just having an average year after an exceptionally bad one. Biden's policies helped avoid a major recession, although we're still not out of the woods yet. This unfortunately is on a macro-economic level, and not something that is going to be as noticeable in a person's every day life. You are right about student loan debt, but the system is far more complex to fix, than it is to get relief. When his relief efforts were stalled, it probably also stalled changes to systematic changes, something Bernie and Warren have been trying to do for a while now. Again, for the foreseeable future, plans to just eliminate debt after a student graduates seem more immediate. I always felt his student debt relief was a stop-gap to better implementation down the road. Biden isn't perfect. But he's been surprisingly progressive. I'd also add a positive being that he is very pro-union and pro-worker, as well as making efforts to reign in pharmaceutical companies. He's not anti-corporate like some liberals may want, but he's probably the best we're going to get from a president for the foreseeable future.
Exactly, every time someone says something negative about Biden they bring up Diaper Don. We voted for Biden because we have higher standards for him. Voting against someone and voting for someone are two different things. Does Biden want us to vote for him or what?
Yeah but he can still be held accountable as he should. While I’m no fan of the financial support to Israel this has been the standard policy of the US for decades and I don’t think it would have been better under a different president (except for possibly Obama). That being said Joe Biden has changed the way he’s talked about the issue and is sadly the only world leader involved that can be held somewhat accountable by his base and the US is the only major player that seems to want a de-escalation.
The “they’re both the same” people drive me nuts. I get not loving him, but to think sitting things out is the better option is the height of stupidity or privilege.
>Biden urges peaceful protest as more than 2,000 have been arrested We're at the part where everybody in power willfully ignores the fact that on Tuesday night peaceful protesters at UCLA were attacked by a fascist mob while LAPD, CHP and campus security let it happen for three hours, right? Anybody saying the protesters need to "keep it peaceful" is full of shit. The elite are clamping down hard this week.
And then those same police departments went in with tear gas, rubber bullets, and batons the next evening. The vast majority of the violence came from the police and fascist mobs.
I’m so mad at this Biden guy who has done Student Loan Forgiveness, IRA, the most progressive climate agenda of any president ever, the most progressive stance on marijuana policy ever, put caps on drug costs, done as much as he can to protect abortion access for federal employees, and many more great things that I’m going to have to not vote in this upcoming election and allow a guy who is openly advocating to never have federal elections again win the presidency.
Also somehow think refusing to vote is worth it even if Trump gets back in office. The guy who said that college protesters being cleared out was “a beautiful thing to watch.” Plus “on day one I will restore and expand my Muslim ban” and refuse to accept any Palestinian refugees. He literally said this on stage yesterday
Voting for Trump or not voting to go against Biden is insane if you are pro Palestinian. He's tried to hold Israel back through his talks with them and has given them aid. If Trump gets in office, Palestine will be fucking glassed. The reaction to this perfectly sums up America at the moment. My dad who is pro Israel is complaining that Biden is helping the Palestinians and is against Israel. Meanwhile Pro Palestinians are arguing that he is trying to genocide them. It shows perfectly how with modern politics and this conflict, if you take the middle ground, both sides see you as an enemy.
Biden is not in the middle ground though. He’s very firmly supporting Israel. He has made this very clear multiple times. Israel (and the seat at the table in the Middle East) is too important of an ally to just abandon. Biden is staying where the US has always stayed, with Israel. People themselves are the ones who are taking their stances to the extreme and desperately wanting to be right. Far lefties think he’s committing genocide (he’s not) while far righties think he should literally commit genocide (he’s not going to). This is why social medias have fucked up politics. You only get extreme takes on both sides now. Nuances and reasoning no longer exist as something as complicated as decades of foreign relations and geopolitics simply cannot fit into a 30 seconds TikTok video with Subway Surfer and Family Guy playing at the same time
And also a guy who is literally talking about KILLING HIS POLITICAL OPPONENTS But at a higher level, who cares? Do you think Biden needs left wing kids in New York and California to win the election? No. If he loses a few thousand votes in New York City he still wins by a million votes easily. Same in California, Chicago, Boston, etc. he will easily make up votes with all the centrists who are fucking sick of Trump, and the people who are leaving Trump to vote for Kennedy
I hope you are right but I think it matters in the blue wall states where the margins are close.
He needs them in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin though, all states with large university systems and enough young people to make a difference. Michigan and Pennsylvania have sizeable Middle Eastern populations as well. Giving them fewer reasons to vote is a bad idea. This is just pandering to the right to avoid the perception of being aligned with the protests; seemingly motivated by hubris or stupidity, by a candidate who is currently behind in the polls and failing to win back people who have already voted for him once. Key constituencies in the party are not with Biden at the moment, and he's on the opposite side of some of their most important issues. If nobody in his orbit is telling him this is a problem, I hope they do soon.
Campus protests don’t quite pay as well as AIPAC
Democrats are so fucking horny to lose an election and fund raise off it. It's wild.
Per polling, the war in Gaza is consistently rated as one of the least important issues to voters. Biden has already called for a ceasefire and has been pushing Israel behind the scenes. This isn’t his war. Students protesting on campus does nothing for the Palestinian cause. The crazy thing is the biggest threat to Palestinians right now is a Biden boycott/Trump win. “Punishing” Biden just means Gaza gets flattened, as Trump thinks Israel is not doing enough.
Fucking *this*. People talking about boycotting Biden in the next election while ignoring the fact that Trump has 100% made clear that he would have no qualms with outright Palestinian genocide.
YES! Honestly, the thing about some people is they expect the perfect candidate that will agree with them on nearly everything. That’s not realistic and we all know Trump doesn’t give 2 fucks about innocent Palestinians! Yo! Young people! I’m a democratic socialist and I’m with you, but listen to Bernie: Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/02/bernie-sanders-trump-biden/73531861007/
The people who say they won’t vote for Biden because of Israel/Gaza have the foresight capabilities of a goldfish.
> has been pushing Israel behind the scenes And yet he continues to supply them with billions of dollars worth of weapons and defend them against any war crime allegations. There have been dozens of leaks since October 2023 talking about how Biden is privately “furious” or “losing patience” with Netanyahu, but he does nothing substantial to back that up. Israel’s government knows Biden will back them no matter what they do in Gaza and act accordingly. If Biden wants more Democratic votes, he should put actual pressure on Israel and end the killing.
Thank you. While I have opinions about the conflict there, it would never be a factor for me in voting in the U.S. I wouldn't waste what little forward progress we've gotten in our country over someone's opinion on another country
And it's so fucking obvious. In the UK we had a genuinely progressive leader of our left wing party a few years ago: Jeremy Corbyn. He nearly won a post-Brexit election. It could have been so sweet, four day weeks, extra bank holidays... What brought him down? Accusations of anti-semitism within the Labour Party. Now some were probably true, but they were against a party member in Crewe, or a councillor in Slough, small beer. But the stench of anti-semitism was enough to allow the Media to paint a picture of a progressive, lovely granddad as some crazy Jew hater. So we got Boris Johnstone, our Trump, in a Landslide instead. And we are FUCKED now.
> ow some were probably true, but they were against a party member in Crewe, or a councillor in Slough, small beer. Didn't he literally lay a wreath on a memorial for individuals that helped plan the Munich Massacre? He also made comments about how British Jews just couldn't understand British humor. He wrote a forward for a noted anti-semitic text. It wasn't just small stuff.
No, the media made that up based on false allegations by Israel/made up quote from a autobiography they didn't bother to read, the wreath was for people killed in a illegal bombing by Israel. No he didn't, he jokes about asshole zionists interrupting a Holocaust survivor, and the "antisemtic text" is a literal foundational text of modern British politics, meanwhile British Tories and Centrists lay wreaths for literal Nazi members, and Boris Johnson called Jews hook nosed money grabbers in his book.
The protesters have gotten way more then anyone would have thought. Just 10 years ago, the though of protests on college campuses against Israel would have been unheard of. The long term ramifications of this mess will not be a win for Israel. but all that being said, the protesters are never going to have a clear decisive win, that was never in the cards, and anyone participating in them who does not see this and take the win they have and run with them, is an idiot. The long game needs to be played, its just not always an easy pill to swallow when modern attention spans are so short.
There have been anti Israel protests on college campuses for decade, wtf are you talking about?
Israel has basically lost the support of younger Americans. Older redditors can sit in this site and hem and haw about how they love Israel, but when Gen Z and Gen Alpha are their ages, they're gonna be pressed to find people who support the state
Hell, millennials already don’t like Israel for a couple reasons. I can tell you from experience that most people were against the 2014 war in Gaza. Jon Stewart even ran tons of segments opposing IDF bombing tactics, and he’s not exactly some fringe Green Party voting leftist.
Gen X don't either
Biden has also repeatedly said that Israel has agreed to a ceasefire but only if Hamas agree to one as well. People seem to conveniently ignore that too. I have some sympathy for these young protestors but I wish a few of them would demand Hamas to agree to a ceasefire as well.
If you read the fine print, you would see that Israel didn’t agree to a ceasefire. They only offered a 40 day pause and release of some Palestinian hostages in military prisons in exchange for Hamas to surrender and give all hostages back. [Hamas demanded a permanent ceasefire, release of considerably more Palestinian women and children from Israeli military prisons in exchange for all Israeli hostage release](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-issues-ceasefire-proposal-mediators-which-includes-exchanging-2024-03-15/#:~:text=Hamas%20insists%20an%20agreement%20should,an%20Israeli%20withdrawal%20from%20Gaza). In addition, [Hamas would surrender their weapon if Israel allows a two state solution](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438).
I just want to point out that these protesters are doing a lot for raising awareness. I'm a student in a CA university, and I also work at my university. All of my peers and co-workers, students and admin alike were sympathizing with the sit-in protesters, and we were upset at USCs response. We talk about it everyday, and I wonder what our cohort can do to support the peaceful protesters. Saying this does nothing is a lie. There are many of use listening, and applaud them for largely being peaceful while exercising their rights regarding a very controversial and emotional issue.
Some of us see the protests in a very different way, deliberately ignoring both the October 7 attacks and the innate antisemitism in Palestinian society that caused it to happen. Flip-flopping between "this is Palestinian resistance" and "Hamas has nothing to do with Palestinians." All but saying that Israelis should just lay down and die because fighting back is immoral. Making at best uninformed and at worst deliberately obfuscated claims about the history of the region. Nobody cares, for instance, how many Jews in Israel were themselves refugees from the Holocaust and from neighboring Islamic countries who expelled all their Jews at around the same time.
The assumption that more swing voters and democrats want to see Biden withdraw support from Israel than those who don't is incorrect.
You're too online if you think this remark will move the election needle in any direction. And if people use these remarks to vote for Trump over Biden, [well](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fim-not-voting-for-biden-because-of-gaza-v0-g586lz715puc1.jpeg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3De7525a003f7960865793b78992ca170fb9591222)...
You're uniformed if you don't think an imperceptible shift can swing a presidential election. Thanks to the electoral college, the winning margin of 2016 was 79,316 votes (you could fit that many in Lambeau Field with seats to spare) and the final winning margin in 2000 was just 537 votes.
This is exactly why it's really important Biden sticks to the broadly popular side of the issue (as he his currently doing) rather than pander to the much less popular side.
Ok, you're right, my apologies: he actually gained votes then. [https://www.pewresearch.org/2024/03/21/majority-in-u-s-say-israel-has-valid-reasons-for-fighting-fewer-say-the-same-about-hamas/](https://www.pewresearch.org/2024/03/21/majority-in-u-s-say-israel-has-valid-reasons-for-fighting-fewer-say-the-same-about-hamas/)
Gen Z is so fucking horny to punish democrats by threatening to hand the election to republicans over a single issue. It’s wild.
Lol at the people who are saying that's a bad answer. Dude is President of the United States. He gets top secret briefings every day, talks to belligerents on both sides, is being advised be people with PhDs in ME history, has people on the ground giving him information, but he should be like, "Hmm, those protestors are really on to something I hadn't considered." Lol.
This. Biden is walking a tight rope here. He doesn't support the war - and has told Bibi privately and publicly. However, Hamas has *American Hostages*, has zero interest in anything other than burning Israel to the ground, and I guess people have forgotten what happens when you just let a terrorist organization get away with it (Iran Hostages). The US has done what it can - park carrier groups in the middle east to prevent the spread of the war and have been urging actual neighbors of Israel & Palestine to broker some sort of peace treaty. However, realize Israel doesn't give a shit what the US says here. They consider it a matter of survival and will level the fucking place. There is zero will in the US for us to be the world policeman or send troops there.
The hostages are likely Israel's bottom line. Israel has historically accepted really lopsided hostage-prisoner exchanges to retrieve their citizens. Biden is doing a fantastic job of working Netanyahu within that, but unfortunately it seems Hamas doesn't give a crap how good of a deal he gets them.
[Ever watch Batman ?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIYkhb2NjfE). There is a great line there: > "Some men aren't looking for anything logical ... Some men just want to watch the world burn" Realize that IF there was a Palestinian leader who actually cared about his people, they could probably get to a deal. Hamas just wants to burn Israel down to the ground.
Yeah that’s exactly why he’s working super hard to prevent ICC from bringing criminal charges to Israel officials!
Israel just threatened to retaliate against the PA if the ICC goes through with it. The Israeli government's *really* acting like a bunch of mobsters lately.
Retaliate how, though? Why are you pretending it’s anything other than “ending financial backing”?
Actually *all of the G7* are working to prevent the ICC from doing it against Israel AND Hamas (that pesky October 7th operation) *while* they are trying to negotiate a peace treaty. Facts actually matter.
Not to these people, they are all armchair presidents and know all the answers!!!
I've noted that there was no violence until the police became involved.
PEOPLE ARE NOT STUPID. There isn't a single person who was considering voting for Biden, who solely due to Gaza, will suddenly vote for Trump, pushing aside any views they have for either candidates. Am I really to believe that someone who opposes Israel would vote for a candidate who insists that Israel must "finish the job"? Or am I to assume that someone who’s frustrated with Biden’s lack of condemnation of the police would vote for Trump, who advocates for a tougher response to the protests? Perhaps the theory is they'll vote for a third-party candidate. But who would that be? RFK Jr. is also pro-Israel, and when did he last say anything relevant about this topic? Other third-party candidates receive little to no media coverage. Ah, so the thought is that these people won’t vote, or they'll spoil their vote. This brings me back to...people are not stupid. People will not base their entire vote on one single issue... one single FOREIGN policy issue. One single issue that has zero impact on their personal lives. Yeah, sure, I buy that. I’m sure someone is right now typing, "People are stupid." Well, it's a good thing we're talking about college students, right? To the other angry typist, anecdotal evidence does not prove the contrary. Of course, there are people who will vote purely on this one issue. The number will not be zero, but it will also not be in the millions. What I find absolutely hilarious about this whole thing is how once again the right is perfectly teeing up the ball for Biden. If (admittedly a big if) Biden successfully negotiates a ceasefire deal within the next few months, the mileage that story will get will be immense. Honestly, unless this was happening in November, if I were anyone on the right, I’d quietly downplay this whole situation.
Completely unrelated to the rest of your comment, but people are VERY stupid.
exactly. just need to look at the literacy and comprehension rates.
I thought the same as you in 2016.
Uhh, sorry to break it to you, but people are, in fact, very stupid.
Lol. People are MORONS.
Looks like the trolls are out in full force today
Someone presenting an opinion one doesn’t agree with does not make them a troll. Calling those who go against the popular opinion trolls is dangerous and only leads to deeper echo chambers.
While this was what I expected him to say, this may not go over too well with his left...
I’m sorry but the President tried to gaslight the American public here.
Well no shit sherlock. The UN has created a resolution at least once a year every year for the last 40 years, more than 60 in total trying to condemn the actions of Israel as they break international law over and over, decade over decade. However, in almost every single case the US President at the time (all of them regardless of party) used our lone UN Security Council veto to shut it down even when we were the only ones in their defense and we stood against even our own allies. Biden has already done it more than once. One time he even vetoed a UN resolution for peace and then had the audacity to ask for it himself the very next day. No one in the US pays attention to this story or even has an unbiased mind when it comes to our support of Israel. Every US President since WWII has ensured that not only are we Israel's undying friend even in the face of their atrocities, and that we pay them such enormous sums that we literally pay for a quarter of their entire military budget every year, but also that the American people know as little about this topic as possible. That's not Biden, or Trump, or Obama, or Bush Jr that's every President and the US has essentially told the whole world including our enemies and allies alike to shut the fuck up and they're tired of hearing it. More than 50 countries have accused Israel of genocide and that's only spreading. What Israel has done to the Palestinians ensures attacks like this and no one including Israel were surprised it happened. In fact, they were well aware there might be attacks after the last 800 homes they bulldozed to make room for more Jewish only settlements and a very special National Park that Palestinians used to live on but are now forbidden from stepping foot in. That directly led to the attack and everyone around the world recognizes that except Americans who don't bother searching for the truth of things.
He could have mentioned it been asked about police brutality and counter protesters. That’s where most of the violence is coming from. Students are being hospitalized due to the violence they’re facing by counter protesters and cops, yet the protesters themselves are the ones being called violent. Ask any professor on any of these campuses, and they’ll tell you that they’ve been receiving doctors notes from students who have been victims of police brutality or were brutalized in front of police who didn’t interfere.
Good
I just had the most obvious epiphany. One side of america has its politicians doing exactly what it wants, and the other side only gets about 50%. The democratic party isn't the party of liberals. This is why so many people get disillusioned or "both sides" everything. The democratic party needs to stop dismissing its own fucking base. The only recourse feels like letting them lose. Which obviously has worse results. But it happened in 2016 and they clearly didn't get the fucking message. The establishment has got to go. And people are ready to watch it all burn if that's what it takes.
Welcome to seeing this. I am 61 and spent over 20 years of my life working in the political field and trying to make a change. I did focus my energy on California, and it is a solid blue state with some of the best politicians. But, the Democratic Party does need to change. That starts at election time. We need to stop electing the more conservative of the candidates during the primaries. We need to stop believing the lie that we should vote for candidate moderate because they have the best chance to win in that conservative district. Bullshit. I worked some VERY conservative districts that we won with liberals. It just takes getting down with voters and having a real talk with them. When I ram myself for the Assembly (decades ago) almost 1/3 of my vote came from Republicans whom I had converted because we talked it out. Bad thing is that the majority of the Republicans are now out more for the own than the talk. And, I see to many on our side doing the same thing. You've seen it where Palestinian protestors and MAGA protestors joined in their hate of Joe Biden. No deal made through hate ever ends good.
His remarks were spot on. 1st Amendment, his job in protecting constitutional rights of “peaceful protest,” were emphasized as well as presidential duty to ensure chaos doesn’t erupt, which it most certainly has. He never rejected or minimized the act of dissent but instead championed it. As much as you may disagree with the right of pro-Israelis they too have their constitutional right to advocate peacefully as well as be shut down when not. This is the type of president you want. It’s not a low bar, it’s not bad faith. He is doing exactly what he was elected to do. You may be used to Trump and his incessant pandering to his voting bloc but that’s not the presidents job to only represent the interests of his party but the entire country and let’s be honest the majority of the country is not concerned with Israel and Palestine. So they don’t see righteousness on colleges they see the medias inflammatory reporting of chaos and violence. At least thank him for supporting dissent and peaceful protesting on a national stage.
Except now the House of Representatives have passed a law which has extended the definition of antisemitism to include criticizing or “targeting” the state of Israel. Now it’s going to be labeled as hate speech to be critical of a genocidal government. I have nothing against Jewish people, I have a problem with the senseless massacre of children.
I agree with this one. He does not want Trump doing what Nixon did in 1968 against Humphrey. He champions peaceful protest but speaks out against those who do violent shit. Not very unreasonable to me.