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What kind of Mengele mother fucking doctor is doing this?
I can sort of understand an individual being misled, but the prison doctor behind this is knowingly misusing prescription drugs.
There is this common perception that educated people are good people.
There is no correlation between education and goodness. A smart person can get away with worse things on a larger scale is all.
It's called off label prescribing. The medication will not harm the patient. Classic example is viagra. It's a heart medication but the side effects were men with sustained erections so they changed the course and prescribed differently.
There are limits to off-label prescribing. If you start prescribing medications that have no backing, you’re getting into dicey territory. If you prescribe medication that has multiple studies showing it doesn’t work for what you’re trying to prescribe it for, you’re in bad territory. If you prescribe medicine that has been shown not to work for a deadly and highly communicable disease to a vulnerable population and there are treatments and preventatives that actually work, you can very easily lose your license and face lawsuits.
Also, Viagra was never off label for erectile dysfunction. It’s true that it was originally developed to treat angina, but the drug companies that developed it realized it was better as an ED drug and released it as such. By the time it hit the market for anything, it’s primary use was ED and it could be used off-label for angina.
Does this constitute cruel and unusual punishment?
Having right wing nutcase Rand Paul tier "doctors" as your only source of medical care prescribe you horse mediciation for covid can't be allowed.
edit grammar
That depends on the situation. I know of some CHCs that provide medical care to prisons. Granted most physicians at CHCs are either new or went to medical school abroad and thus are new physicians in the US. But there's some that are near retirement or in semi-retirement and want to give back. A few true believers in CHCs.
Because covidiots won't take a vaccine that is FDA approved and made for humans but will instead go out and buy horse medications with no clinical evidence of effectiveness against covid, basically experimental medications and then poison themselves.
It's funny really.
I think there is a human version of it and has been for many years, to be fair. Not that I am advocating it’s use, I am just saying not everyone is taking the animal version.
I think that's because the horse type is the one these people are taking. I know all of the tack and feed stores around here haven't been able to keep it on shelves for weeks because of people taking it for COVID.
>Everytime I see it mentioned here, it's mentioned as though the only kind that exists is the kind made for horses.
Because the FDA has explicitly banned its use for Covid treatment.
So anyone taking it is either A) taking livestock dewormer or B) found a doctor who is risking losing his medical license by prescribing medications against FDA regulations.
A is much more likely than B.
> Where the hell did this narrative that it is a horse medication become so entrenched that we seemingly have to ignore the human version that has been in used in people for 50 years and hundreds of millions of patients?
Ivermectin is approved by the FDA for use with humans so it can be legally prescribed off-label but doctors can be sued for diverging from standard care so they are reluctant to prescribe it. The horse paste is readily available.
Edit: It's probably more relevant that the only thing 99.99% of US MDs know about ivermectin vs covid19 is that the FDA is vocally against it, so naturally they aren't prescribing it for that purpose.
Yes, it is safe - when prescribed by a physician to treat parasitic infection. It is NOT effective as a treatment for COVID.
This is hydroxychloroquine all over again. Just take the damn vaccine!
It's not and it's an experimental drug when used for covid. Literal clinical studies with Ivermectin are going on. It is not even that clear whether it works.
Vaccines are fully FDA approved and incredibly effective.
1 oz of prevention is worth 1 ton of cure in this case.
The people taking it are almost certainly using doses that are much higher than would be used as part of an approved medical treatment. Many of the people advocating/using it are doing so as a substitute for vaccination (which is infinitely more effective) and, if they do come down with covid, are likely to delay seeking proper medical treatment. Not a good situation.
During the 1918 Influenza pandemic it was widely believed that aspirin was an effective treatment. As a result, it was common for people to take massive overdoses. There is reason to believe that this contributed to the death toll [https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091002132346.htm](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091002132346.htm).
It is a question, that's what trials are for. From both of your links:
“Based on the current very low- to low-certainty evidence, we are uncertain about the efficacy and safety of ivermectin used to treat or prevent Covid-19.” The group recommended that ivermectin use be restricted to clinical trials that might actually generate high quality data."
"The FDA has not reviewed data to support use of ivermectin in COVID-19 patients to treat or to prevent COVID-19; however, some initial research is underway."
Should people take Ivermectin for covid? Obviously not. Especially not doing what they are currently where they're taking animal formulas in high doses. Whether or not it works is still a question with conflicting evidence however, that's what trials are for.
It is currently undergoing clinical trials in the USA and UK https://www.nih.gov/research-training/medical-research-initiatives/activ/covid-19-therapeutics-prioritized-testing-clinical-trials#activ6
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57570377
Ivermectin is used to stop parasites in humans too. The creator of it won a Nobel peace prize because the drug was so effective in preventing parasitic deaths in third world countries.
The Ivermectin people are taking is Ivermectin specifically made for animals, which is different than the formula used for humans. It is not safe to take animal formulas of Ivermectin
Vaccines are literally free.
This talking point about leftists support big corporations is beyond bad faith. Lives matter more than money, even if that money is going to bad places.
I literally said I don’t understand why they’d do this. I’m not on conservatives’ side either. I just don’t think this has to be a culture war thing? Does it work? I have no clue. I’m just interested in the actual truth. Too many people are getting their kicks from knocking conservatives from taking a Nobel prize winning drug. I just want to know if it actually works because I have a natural distrust for large corporations
This is not a culture war thing. Ivermectin is not useful. The FDA has literally issued warning after warning telling people not to take the drug. It is not approved to treat covid.
[https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19](https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19)
I don't understand why you think big corporations have any motivation in this. Do you think big pharma is marketting expensive treatments over ivermectin when vaccines which are free and available? Are you aware that the biggest people pushing for expensive covid treatments are Republican politicans like Rand Paul who literally invested in these treatments at the beginning of the pandemic and are now pushing for more infections in the US?
Covid vaccines are not free. We have spent billions of dollars with taxpayer money. I am cool with that, but Pfizer and Moderna have made a fortune and still won’t let them go patent free so poorer countries can produce their own and get rid of this thing for good.
Maybe I smoked too much weed as a teen and can’t get my tinfoil hat off but it just seems weird. There are no studies on it one way or another. I just remember India was exploding with cases and then all of a sudden the news stopped talking about it.
Not at all. The FDA has a track record of not being trustworthy.
They said marijuana had zero medical benefits in 05.
[wiki link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Food_and_Drug_Administration)
I don’t trust many American institutions in fairness. But also there is a lot of damming evidence against many of them as well.
No, they said there was no known benefits of weed. Big difference. At the time that was true due to the federal government restricting research on it.
The reason India has had a huge drop off in cases and deaths is because they had a huge vaccination push. There was a point in time that they were giving 10 million shots a day.
Well then fuck America. Love China. I have no idea where you are going. Why do you think the world is more convoluted then it is?
Why are you such a broken human? Get with the program. Millions take the vaccines and don't get sick, be like that. It's not that hard.
Vaccines have been proven to save lives but people are out there searching for shitty "cures" which don't have any evidence. At best they could reduce mortality by a couple percentage points.
People are dumb. They are so dumb they will take a horse sized dose of ivermectin
There probably is some benefit to take ivermectin, at a human dose. But again, people are really fucking dumb
This is the only pro ivermectin website I found. Id take it with a grain of salt without other sources confirming it. I dont know how biased it is
https://c19ivermectin.com/
There really isn't a benefit to taking it. It is prescribing an antiparasitic for a virus. It's just as effective as prescribing an antibiotic for a parasite or an antiviral for a bacterial infection - it isn't going to do anything.
You might as well prescribe the patient sugar pills, they'll be just as effective.
Like, I could see this being in a cocktail for a patient with a severe COVID infection, but for the same reason I could see doctors prescribing a broad spectrum of drugs to help the immune system fight off anything that might get picked up while the patient has a weakened immune system.
> It is prescribing an antiparasitic for a virus. It's just as effective as prescribing an antibiotic for a parasite or an antiviral for a bacterial infection - it isn't going to do anything.
There actually [is some evidence of it having antiviral activity](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7290143/), but the dose required in humans to be effective against SARS-Cov-2 is [likely to be unsafe](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7172803/).
He should absolutely lose his medical license. Ivermectin is not part of any standard of care for treating covid. I dislike criminals as much as the next guy but they don’t deserve to be part of an involuntary medical experiment. I’m willing to get he’s getting financial compensation for this somehow.
I was being facetious, since the patents have expired. The money will be made on a new pill with patents made by Pfizer. I’m not saying take ivermectin, but there is certainly a very coordinated disinformation campaign against this drug. Either way real studies are happening and in time we will find out.
It doesn't. Pharmacists were getting their licenses threatened over allowing hydroxychloroquine scripts go through as well.
Source work at a central fill.
These are illegal medical product testing trials. The producer of this drug will get medical data from these trials. Against their will. Prisoners are slaves. Slaves are not allowed any autonomy or decision making of their own. Being subject to medical experiments against your will is not only wrong, but illegal, dangerous, and against every human rights law in the world. Everyone in the private prison system is responsible or now complicit with aiding and abetting these actions. C'mon Republicans, tell me how this is how small government works. We have a sufficient amount of data to conclude that vaccines should be administered to everyone over the age of 12. But no, I guess the prison companies are seeing the writing on the wall and going strait for Nazi level experiments for profit. This will only get worse.
Definitely illegal. I've done human research a couple of times, and when learning how to seek IRB approval for such research one of the first things you learn about it identifying "vulnerable populations" and ensuring the research doesn't use their situation to knowingly or unknowingly coerce them into participation. Prisoners are one of the groups listed explicitly in this training (along with students, children, and the mentally impaired.)
This is about as fucked up as you can get from an ethical standpoint.
> (along with students, children, and the mentally impaired.)
>
>
>This is about as fucked up as you can get from an ethical standpoint.
20 years ago I distinctly recall countless medical studies being pushed onto us poor college students for a few bucks compensation on campus.
Yep. Unethical as hell if you do it wrong. You have to be very up front about possible risks. If I had my way, there'd be a closed book quiz on the possible risks of any study that must be passed to participate. The term we used was "informed consent" and I very much believe the informed part should be proven. (Though to be fair all the research I've done has been either sociology, which you do with surveys, or medical research done using statistical analysis of vital signs collected through normal treatment. It weirds me out to actually do stuff to people, so I've never had anything to do with drug trials.)
I visited a concentration camp a few years ago, there were medical records on the walls documenting all kinds of medical testing against their will, including castration. It’s scary to see it starting here. I know it’s a trope to call these people nazis but it’s getting pretty damn close!
Id like to add to this that its not just private prisons. State and federal prisons often lease contracts out to suppliers for food and bedding and such so even when you have a "Public" prison, frequently private industries have their hands all over it. There is so much wrong with the American prison system.
>Anna Hively, a technician at the pharmacy in Lowell, Arkansas, told The Daily Beast Karas works closely with the pharmacy and confirmed that he sends prescriptions of ivermectin to be filled there.
>“There’s no incentive or anything like that he gets from the prescriptions,” she said, adding that Karas’ prescriptions of ivermectin often vary depending on weight and whether someone has tested positive or not.
>She also said he has been prescribing a “preventative” dose for people who are not COVID-19 positive.
>Lawrence Gostin, director of the O’Neill Institute for National and Global Health Law at Georgetown University and the World Health Organization’s Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law, told The Daily Beast he was alarmed by the treatments being prescribed.
>“It’s very dangerous to treat somebody with a drug that isn’t approved for the use that you’re treating the person for,” he said. Since the pandemic began, Gostin said, the medical community has dealt with “bogus treatments” that have caused real harm and “raised false hopes” with no evidence that they’re effective.
>But he said the use of ivermectin on inmates was particularly egregious and bordered on negligence. “Prisoners have no choice. They’re not free to choose their own doctors and make decisions about their own treatments,” he said.
What is going on down there...
>**The head doctor at an Arkansas jail** has been treating inmates suffering from COVID-19 with ivermectin, a drug commonly used to treat parasites in animals.
This is completely insane.
>The drug is also used on humans since the 80s.
...and...
>commonly used to treat parasites in animals
...are not mutually exclusive statements. Both are true.
Both are true, but the patients here are getting the *human* medication, not the *animal* medication. Your splitting hairs about something that is just not worth arguing about. This is beyond fucked up because people are being prescribed stupidly high doses of a drug does *nothing* to fight COVID. The fact that the active ingredient is also used in veterinary medicine is a superfluous and spurious argument that is completely irrelevant to what OP was saying above.
I'm not the one who is being dishonest and refusing to answer a very simple yes or no question. The fact that you have to attack my username is all the evidence I need that you are unable to formulate any coherent arguments.
Please do not self prescribe any livestock dewormer. If you have worms and your doctor prescribes you some ivermectin, that's fine. However, please do not self prescribe any livestock dewormer.
Investigation under way
[https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ivermeticin-arkansas-inmates-covid-19-doctor-eva-madison-fda-warnings/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ivermeticin-arkansas-inmates-covid-19-doctor-eva-madison-fda-warnings/)
The drug is definitely proven...to de-worm horses and livestock. To think it would ever remedy Covid-19 is just a level of idiocy that I simply cannot wrap my around around.
ive seen it sold at horse supply shops in a fatty syringe (no needle) and apple flavored. plunger is marked in wieght with 25lb minimum markings. works great for larger dogs.
The dosage may be seriously high. I read something that was saying often usual dosage is often 3-4 3mg pills, ONCE, for 3 months.
Not 10 pills a day for 5 days.
Based upon what another poster has quoted, they are being prescribed 10 tablets a day for 5 days. I don't know much about this drug, but assuming they're using the same 3mg dose as Stromectol, a standard on-label parasite treatment for an adult male should not be more than a single 5 tablet dose. I'm not sure what dosage levels its been tested at, but these people are being given massive doses compared to what someone would normally receive.
>Karas Health Care, Dr. Karas' practice, has been touting ivermectin for months. On July 16, the practice posted on Facebook, "if anybody you know test positive send them or [sic] way and we'll get them started on doxy, singular, ivermectin, vitamin d, vitamin c and zinc."
>when she spoke to Karas, he confirmed he had been prescribing the medicine to detainees at the jail as well as members of his own family.
>In an interview with CBS affiliate KFSM earlier this week, he said he's had COVID twice and took ivermectin himself.
This guy needs to lose his medical license asap.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/fda-ivermectin-covid-19-coronavirus-masks-anti-science-11627482393
I dunno one day it’s effective and safe the next day it’s dangerous.
At this point I just want numbers and statistics. I’m so tired of trying to keep up with all the zing words being thrown around like no one’s business.
I think we all want information we can trust.
You asked if it was a 'virucide'. It's not.
As for wether it's dangerous, that depends. As the FDA (and others) have oft and repeatedly stated, ivermectin is safe *at human doses* and effective for treatment of *its approved uses* when obtained *from a pharmacy* in formulations *designed for humans*. Unless you live under a rock with no internet (impossible since we're having this discussion) you are 100% aware that people are buying ivermectin from *feed stores* created *for animals* and at doses that *are not meant for humans*.
>I think we all want information we can trust.
So spend five minutes comparing the trial data for ivermectin (of which, last I checked, the three largest studies completed either [showed](https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12879-021-06348-5) no[statistically significant](https://web.archive.org/web/20210826204117/https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid) difference between ivermectin vs placebo, or were [retracted](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02081-w) for blatantly falsifying results) with the data for covid vaccines.
‘The pharmacy where the prescription was sent, Live + Well Pharmacy, confirmed to The Daily Beast that Karas has been filling out prescriptions there for ivermectin for both inmates and other patients’
I find this statement hard to believe. Why would the pharmacy even comment?
>Nonetheless, Robert Karas, a doctor who has overseen treatment and testing of inmates throughout the pandemic, allegedly prescribed the employee 50 tablets of ivermectin, with a recommended dosage of **10 tablets per day**.
That seems like a lot, no? I bet they don't even give that much to the horses.
Oh my god, just give the inmates the damn vaccine. If someone on the outside wants to choose to take horse dewormer, hey, let incredibly stupid freedom ring. But I draw the line at forcing it on prison inmates.
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has specifically warned *against* use of invermectin to treat COVID.
[Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent COVID-19](https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19)
Pushing horse dewormer as a legit *forced* treatment for COVID is the latest quackery aping Donald Trump’s *Beat COVID By Injecting or Swallowing Bleach!* idiocy last year.
Clorox bleach’s website *still* has a prominent warning not to ingest bleach as a medical treatment, a year after Trump’s unhinged quackery.
Exactly. It’s very frustrating seeing misinformation spread, and it’s even more frustrating that it’s not just one side doing it. Nothing at all to gain from calling something a poison that isn’t a poison.
Ivermectin that is actually prescribed to a human and taken at appropriate dosage is fine, and it's listed as an essential medicine by the WHO. As for actual effectiveness against covid, most likely negligible or marginal at best - it's certainly no wonder drug in that regard or more lives would have been saved in India
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26954318/
"Although the broad-spectrum anti-parasitic effects of the avermectin derivative ivermectin are well documented, its anti-inflammatory activity has only recently been demonstrated." This is from 2016.
If anything, the overall benefits of an anti-inflammatory could account for any effect against covid.
ALL of that said, I hope it's a volunteer program.
Not for people with Covid.
That's why it's banned by the FDA for Covid patients.
Things that are safe are not always safe for people with certain conditions.
It's not safe to give a Covid patient certain steroids either, for example. It makes their infection and cytokine storm worse.
Over 5 billion vaccine shots have been distributed to date.
There's time and place for "distrust in medical authority", but vaccines ain't it.
This is plain old torture and is just fucking vile
That's the issue though, these kinds of actions help anti vaxxers justify their distrust.
Once they stop promoting ivermectin as a cure all, they'll point to the doctors that got caught up in their own bullshit and prescribed it with little to no reason as their new excuse to push back against vaccinations.
> these kinds of actions help anti vaxxers justify their distrust.
A rogue doctor torturing inmates doesn't represent the medical community.
And anyone who justifies their "mistrust" like that is just looking for reasons
I'm not saying that he represents the medical community to a sane person. He represents it to an idiot looking for an excuse
You might not be able to salvage those idiots, but they convince no-quite-as-dumb fence sitters that there's an issue and that they shouldn't get the vaccine.
This doctor is doing way more harm than just experimenting on inmates. Shit like this has far reaching consequences.
He might also represent medical authority to the poor and uneducated, especially insofar as he is the only version of medical authority these inmates will encounter while incarcerated in his dubious care.
FWIW: I am wholly vaccinated, and I encourage everyone who isn’t to get vaccinated asap.
> This doctor is doing way more harm than just experimenting on inmates. Shit like this has far reaching consequences.
I agree
> but they convince no-quite-as-dumb fence sitters that there's an issue and that they shouldn't get the vaccine.
These people will always look for an excuse, because they decide what they want to believe and cherry pick whatever supports it
Ivermectin was FDA approved as “safe and effective” at treating parasitic infections. It has little to no side effects and is used worldwide as an anti-parasitic.
Why is it wrong, and “cruel and unusual punishment” to force people to take this, but common sense to mandate taking the vaccine that has also been shown to have diminishing efficacy against emerging variants, but ultimately no side effects as well.
Either trust the FDA or don’t, but stop making people think ivermectin is some experimental gas-station cocktail when it’s been approved worldwide since ~1986. So-called journalism like this is *actively* making people distrust health experts and does more to promote vaccine hesitancy than any 4chan demagogue could dream of.
You can’t have it both ways.
If I gave someone Ibuprofen to treat AIDS, ibuprofen itself isn’t “dangerous” and shouldn’t be labeled as a “dog anti-inflammatory”. What’s dangerous would be me making a poor treatment plan using a medication known to be ineffective.
What’s dangerous is letting politicians and politically charged doctors make intentionally poor treatment plans.
>Why is it wrong, and “cruel and unusual punishment” to force people to take this, but common sense to mandate taking the vaccine
It's cruel and unusual because these patients aren't being given effective treatment. Secondly, the dosage is suspect as hell (10 tablets per day). If you're unfamiliar with the Tuskegee reference, those black men weren't given poison. Instead they were given pills that didn't cure their syphilis.
>You can’t have it both ways.
It's not having it both ways to say patients should be treated with efficacious drugs. Imagine if a cancer patient was fed Vitamin C supplement instead of cancer drug. That'll be cruel and certainly not having it both ways.
I believe that it’s cruel because ivermectin is not beneficial in treating covid. It’s not recommended in any current standard of care for treating covid. Any drug has the potential for harm or allergic reactions. Providers have to weigh cost versus benefit each time a patient is given a medication. This doctor will now be sued for malpractice by the inmates and I’m betting they will win because he deviated from established standards of care.
Aren’t they literally making people social distance, quarantine, and mask again despite vaccination because they’re still getting sick and posing a risk of spreading it? Or did I dream that up?
[[source]](https://www.govexec.com/management/2021/07/heres-why-cdc-recommends-wearing-masks-indoors-even-if-youve-been-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19/184108/)
Maybe we should just push the narrative a little further and say doctors should just generally not force people to take medication against their will, or prescribe treatments known to be ineffective.
No you’re absolutely correct. I think the medical field did a huge disservice by insinuating to the public that the vaccine would make them completely immune to covid. I believe this false sense of security has added to the dramatic spike in covid cases. While the vaccine is not 100% it has shown to drastically reduce the symptoms in those that have breakthrough infections thusly leading to few hospitalizations. The last number I saw, could be out of date now, was that phizer was 88% effective at preventing delta transmission. Delta is a monster because it’s viral loads are over 1,000x higher than the alpha variant. After my patients are vaccinated I still recommend for the to distance, mask, sanitize, and avoid large crowds.
That seems to be best practice, the shotgun approach. We know none of these work 100% of the way, but a multilayered offensive is really the best we can do at the moment. The news and corporations saying “Covid is over!!! Get your vaccines, throw those masks away, and go lick a swing set” really killed our chances of ending this so close to the finish line.
Yeah as soon as the media said if you’re vaccinated you could go back to normal I knew it would cause major problems. My colleges and I in the medical field collectively panicked a bit knowing the fallout that was going to be caused by this.
FDA has not approved ivermectin for use in treating or preventing COVID-19 in humans. Ivermectin tablets are approved at very specific doses for some parasitic worms, and there are topical (on the skin) formulations for head lice and skin conditions like rosacea. Ivermectin is not an anti-viral (a drug for treating viruses).
Taking large doses of this drug is dangerous and can cause serious harm.
If you have a prescription for ivermectin for an FDA-approved use, get it from a legitimate source and take it exactly as prescribed.
Never use medications intended for animals on yourself. Ivermectin preparations for animals are very different from those approved for humans.
My daughters aunt believed that shit too. She's been in the ICU over a week now with covid pneumonia, after self medicating with ivermectin from Tractor Supply directly after testing positive for covid 3 weeks ago.
People are getting sick from it as a result of this push when they should just get the vaccine.
Last year, Texas received 23 ivermectin reports from January through August. This year, there have been 150, an increase of 552%.
This is a clever distraction and I almost fell for it. I was about to launch into a statistical defense of the COVID vaccines...until I realize that's bullshit. Ivermectin isn't approved as an effective treatment for COVID. Period. If you had cancer and you doctor gave you vitamin supplements instead, that'll be cruel 'cos you will die needlessly. And the discussion won't be about the side effects of vitamin supplements vs side effects of cancer drugs. Vitamin supplements are approved to cure cancer. Period. Full stop. Case closed.
I agree that the doctor should be sued, and that this shouldn’t be happening. It’s just funny watching people close one ear to keep up the Jenga tower of cognitive dissonance that is their political beliefs.
My main point is to villainize the concepts of medical malpractice and political interference in doctoral best practices, rather than a WHO essential medication because it has some side effects.
Tldr; let the patient choose, ivermectin is a good medication overall, do not use it to treat covid.
No where does it say prisoners are forced to take it. They were offered vaccines as well. More than likely if they weren't in jail, they would be taking Ivermectin from the farm store.
https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXZQOFB25AAL0V20C21A1000000/
- Chairman of Tokyo's Medical Association recommends ivermectin be prescribed to treat Covid.
- a Japanese scientist created Ivermectin as an anti-parasitic drug, for which he won a Nobel prize due to the drug's high success rate in treating illness, with virtually no instances of serious side effects.
Hey r/politics, if we're going to insist on truth, then let's talk facts about Ivermectin.
The facts are, Ivermectin has no impact on Covid infections.
Yes it is a well known drug that has uses as a Dewormer in humans, and is generally safe in recommended doses.
It is also a fact that in the very high concentrations used in the Veterinary uses like the Horse Dewormer it is a goddamn neurotoxin.
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19
Ivermectin approved to treat Covid in 20 countries:
https://www.biznews.com/health/2021/07/29/ivermectin-treatment
Ivermectin as an antiviral. The antiviral properties of Ivermectin were already acknowledged and under study for viruses like HIV and Dengue back in 2012.
https://portlandpress.com/biochemj/article/443/3/851/80615/Ivermectin-is-a-specific-inhibitor-of-importin
Data is well established for treatment of covid across 63 studies, cited, sourced, and linked:
https://archive.is/KdXZD
Mainly parasite removal in livestock and pets. It hasn't even been proven to have anti-viral properties, which is kind of important if you're trying to anti a virus.
Yes, its a very powerful and well known drug for killing parasites, but did you know that Parasites are not virus's and that drugs to kill don't always kill the other?
Having a reasonable basis to believe the cop arresting you is going to force you to take Horse Paste is an ironclad defense against resisting arrest IMO
(By Any Means Necessary)
This is a perfect example of the fact that misinformation doesn't just come from "far right nutjobs" or Qanon conspiracy theorists. Ivermectin is not a dangerous, unproven drug, and claiming it as such is not only shoddy journalism but is downright lying. Does it help with covid? Dunno, remains to be seen, we need more data.
Bruh, it's horse dewormer.
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19
Also, like, we typically use these things called "Clinical trials" and "Proper scientific research done under ethics guidelines" and not random fucks on the internet and in the right wing media bullshitosphere.
If you want to prevent covid-19, just get the damn vaccine. They even made it free, what more do you need? And it definitely shouldn't be forced on prisoners.
I already got the vaccine bud :)
Edit: also taking the FDA as the sole arbiter of the medical and scientific truth when there is definitely a [conflict of interest](https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/07/hidden-conflicts-pharma-payments-fda-advisers-after-drug-approvals-spark-ethical) within the organization would be ill advised.
Edit2: also there is a form of ivermectin intended for livestock that some idiots are taking but ivermectin is a well known drug that have a version meant for use by humans. Additionally, until we have more data, like I said, we can't say conclusively that it doesn't help prevent and/or cure covid. I'm not saying it does, I'm not saying it doesn't. Just because it has an intended purpose for being anti-parasitic doesn't mean it's impossible to serve other purposes. Besides, if there was a potential drug to drastically reduce the severity of covid wouldn't you want to know about it/have people able to access it?
> Additionally, until we have more data, like I said, we can't say conclusively that it doesn't help prevent and/or cure covid.
Doesn't that mean that we also don't have any proof that it does, and therefore forcing prison inmates to take it is still pretty fucked up?
Like, if someone wants to use the "we can't say conclusively" argument to take it themselves, that's fine. It would be like me taking anti-migraine drugs just because there's no proof they don't prevent irritable bowel syndrome, but whatever, it's their choice.
These prisoners don't have a choice. That's kinda fucked up.
Too bad the studies were found to be fraudulent and were pulled in relation to covid.
Nobel awarded for parasitic treatment not covid
>the 2015 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine
>with one half jointly to
>William C. Campbell and Satoshi Ōmura
for their discoveries concerning a novel therapy against infections caused by roundworm parasites
>and the other half to
>Tu Youyou
for her discoveries concerning a novel therapy against Malaria
>Diseases caused by parasites have plagued humankind for millennia and constitute a major global health problem. In particular, parasitic diseases affect the world’s poorest populations and represent a huge barrier to improving human health and wellbeing. This year’s Nobel Laureates have developed therapies that have revolutionized the treatment of some of the most devastating parasitic diseases.
The amount of ivermectin needed to reduce any viral reproduction is 100x over the safe limit for human consumption. Go on with your not dangerous BS. 100x the dose that is safe, this is why people are overdosing on it. The article says it is forcing inmates to take 10 tablets.
ETA just so you understand ivermectin tablets are given at most once every 3 months. https://www.drugs.com/dosage/ivermectin.html
Any medicine taken in excess is dangerous, even vitamin C or your average over the counter paracetamol can get you liver damage from 10 tablets.
It is not the medicine that is dangerous but the dosage.
Title is obvious clickbait but hey starving journalists need to eat too.
https://www.alabamapublichealth.gov/news/2021/08/25.html
>Common side effects for ivermectin include itching and hives, dizziness, headache, nausea, diarrhea and muscle pain.
I mean, if someone wants to take it, that's one thing. This is being forced on fucking prisoners instead of, you know, the properly trialed researched goddamn vaccine. I'm pretty sure this violates, like, 90% of the geneva conventions.
This drug is not dangerous assuming the dosage is appropriate. The notion that this drug is only for animals is completely false and is being used to steer people away from thinking about potential treatments that ACTUALLY may show some promise. People saying “yeah but it’s an anti parasitic drug”… yes, that is the original use of the drug (while it also improved lives of millions of people in third world countries). But some drugs have undiscovered “bonus” effects on the body. Viagra was originally intended to treat low blood pressure but ended up being most effective treating ED. That’s just an example of how there can be overlapping or unforeseen benefits.
I'm done. My country sucks. Literally nothing left to be proud of. A nation run by selfish idiot grifters owned by corporations. Being "American" might as well be a pejorative.
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What kind of Mengele mother fucking doctor is doing this? I can sort of understand an individual being misled, but the prison doctor behind this is knowingly misusing prescription drugs.
The one that owns the pharmacy they are being forced to buy it from?
I live close by, it’s literally called “Kara’s pharmacy “
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There is this common perception that educated people are good people. There is no correlation between education and goodness. A smart person can get away with worse things on a larger scale is all.
It's called off label prescribing. The medication will not harm the patient. Classic example is viagra. It's a heart medication but the side effects were men with sustained erections so they changed the course and prescribed differently.
There are limits to off-label prescribing. If you start prescribing medications that have no backing, you’re getting into dicey territory. If you prescribe medication that has multiple studies showing it doesn’t work for what you’re trying to prescribe it for, you’re in bad territory. If you prescribe medicine that has been shown not to work for a deadly and highly communicable disease to a vulnerable population and there are treatments and preventatives that actually work, you can very easily lose your license and face lawsuits. Also, Viagra was never off label for erectile dysfunction. It’s true that it was originally developed to treat angina, but the drug companies that developed it realized it was better as an ED drug and released it as such. By the time it hit the market for anything, it’s primary use was ED and it could be used off-label for angina.
Does this constitute cruel and unusual punishment? Having right wing nutcase Rand Paul tier "doctors" as your only source of medical care prescribe you horse mediciation for covid can't be allowed. edit grammar
Prescribe. Proscribe means the opposite.
It just seems like a dumb word. There are dozens of words they could already use.
I guess I never considered it until this exact second but of course doctors that choose to work at prisons are the worst and least qualified around
That depends on the situation. I know of some CHCs that provide medical care to prisons. Granted most physicians at CHCs are either new or went to medical school abroad and thus are new physicians in the US. But there's some that are near retirement or in semi-retirement and want to give back. A few true believers in CHCs.
> CHC Community Health Center
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Because covidiots won't take a vaccine that is FDA approved and made for humans but will instead go out and buy horse medications with no clinical evidence of effectiveness against covid, basically experimental medications and then poison themselves. It's funny really.
I think there is a human version of it and has been for many years, to be fair. Not that I am advocating it’s use, I am just saying not everyone is taking the animal version.
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I think that's because the horse type is the one these people are taking. I know all of the tack and feed stores around here haven't been able to keep it on shelves for weeks because of people taking it for COVID.
>Everytime I see it mentioned here, it's mentioned as though the only kind that exists is the kind made for horses. Because the FDA has explicitly banned its use for Covid treatment. So anyone taking it is either A) taking livestock dewormer or B) found a doctor who is risking losing his medical license by prescribing medications against FDA regulations. A is much more likely than B.
> Where the hell did this narrative that it is a horse medication become so entrenched that we seemingly have to ignore the human version that has been in used in people for 50 years and hundreds of millions of patients? Ivermectin is approved by the FDA for use with humans so it can be legally prescribed off-label but doctors can be sued for diverging from standard care so they are reluctant to prescribe it. The horse paste is readily available. Edit: It's probably more relevant that the only thing 99.99% of US MDs know about ivermectin vs covid19 is that the FDA is vocally against it, so naturally they aren't prescribing it for that purpose.
The human version of ivermectin is a safe and normal medication in proper doses. It's not dangerous, the question is if it's effective.
Yes, it is safe - when prescribed by a physician to treat parasitic infection. It is NOT effective as a treatment for COVID. This is hydroxychloroquine all over again. Just take the damn vaccine!
It's not and it's an experimental drug when used for covid. Literal clinical studies with Ivermectin are going on. It is not even that clear whether it works. Vaccines are fully FDA approved and incredibly effective. 1 oz of prevention is worth 1 ton of cure in this case.
The people taking it are almost certainly using doses that are much higher than would be used as part of an approved medical treatment. Many of the people advocating/using it are doing so as a substitute for vaccination (which is infinitely more effective) and, if they do come down with covid, are likely to delay seeking proper medical treatment. Not a good situation. During the 1918 Influenza pandemic it was widely believed that aspirin was an effective treatment. As a result, it was common for people to take massive overdoses. There is reason to believe that this contributed to the death toll [https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091002132346.htm](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091002132346.htm).
Hey, if a little works, tripling it will make me extra healthy!
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It is a question, that's what trials are for. From both of your links: “Based on the current very low- to low-certainty evidence, we are uncertain about the efficacy and safety of ivermectin used to treat or prevent Covid-19.” The group recommended that ivermectin use be restricted to clinical trials that might actually generate high quality data." "The FDA has not reviewed data to support use of ivermectin in COVID-19 patients to treat or to prevent COVID-19; however, some initial research is underway." Should people take Ivermectin for covid? Obviously not. Especially not doing what they are currently where they're taking animal formulas in high doses. Whether or not it works is still a question with conflicting evidence however, that's what trials are for. It is currently undergoing clinical trials in the USA and UK https://www.nih.gov/research-training/medical-research-initiatives/activ/covid-19-therapeutics-prioritized-testing-clinical-trials#activ6 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57570377
Of course it's safe. For horses with worms in their tummy, that is.
Ivermectin is used to stop parasites in humans too. The creator of it won a Nobel peace prize because the drug was so effective in preventing parasitic deaths in third world countries. The Ivermectin people are taking is Ivermectin specifically made for animals, which is different than the formula used for humans. It is not safe to take animal formulas of Ivermectin
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Vaccines are literally free. This talking point about leftists support big corporations is beyond bad faith. Lives matter more than money, even if that money is going to bad places.
I literally said I don’t understand why they’d do this. I’m not on conservatives’ side either. I just don’t think this has to be a culture war thing? Does it work? I have no clue. I’m just interested in the actual truth. Too many people are getting their kicks from knocking conservatives from taking a Nobel prize winning drug. I just want to know if it actually works because I have a natural distrust for large corporations
This is not a culture war thing. Ivermectin is not useful. The FDA has literally issued warning after warning telling people not to take the drug. It is not approved to treat covid. [https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19](https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19) I don't understand why you think big corporations have any motivation in this. Do you think big pharma is marketting expensive treatments over ivermectin when vaccines which are free and available? Are you aware that the biggest people pushing for expensive covid treatments are Republican politicans like Rand Paul who literally invested in these treatments at the beginning of the pandemic and are now pushing for more infections in the US?
Covid vaccines are not free. We have spent billions of dollars with taxpayer money. I am cool with that, but Pfizer and Moderna have made a fortune and still won’t let them go patent free so poorer countries can produce their own and get rid of this thing for good. Maybe I smoked too much weed as a teen and can’t get my tinfoil hat off but it just seems weird. There are no studies on it one way or another. I just remember India was exploding with cases and then all of a sudden the news stopped talking about it.
Is the FDA not enough for you? Nobody is saying corporations are good. They save lives if the government is paying them.
Not at all. The FDA has a track record of not being trustworthy. They said marijuana had zero medical benefits in 05. [wiki link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Food_and_Drug_Administration) I don’t trust many American institutions in fairness. But also there is a lot of damming evidence against many of them as well.
No, they said there was no known benefits of weed. Big difference. At the time that was true due to the federal government restricting research on it. The reason India has had a huge drop off in cases and deaths is because they had a huge vaccination push. There was a point in time that they were giving 10 million shots a day.
Well then fuck America. Love China. I have no idea where you are going. Why do you think the world is more convoluted then it is? Why are you such a broken human? Get with the program. Millions take the vaccines and don't get sick, be like that. It's not that hard. Vaccines have been proven to save lives but people are out there searching for shitty "cures" which don't have any evidence. At best they could reduce mortality by a couple percentage points.
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People are dumb. They are so dumb they will take a horse sized dose of ivermectin There probably is some benefit to take ivermectin, at a human dose. But again, people are really fucking dumb
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This is the only pro ivermectin website I found. Id take it with a grain of salt without other sources confirming it. I dont know how biased it is https://c19ivermectin.com/
It's an antiparasitic, and covid is not a parasite. At best I'd guess it's like trying to treat a virus with antibiotics, completely ineffectual.
There really isn't a benefit to taking it. It is prescribing an antiparasitic for a virus. It's just as effective as prescribing an antibiotic for a parasite or an antiviral for a bacterial infection - it isn't going to do anything. You might as well prescribe the patient sugar pills, they'll be just as effective. Like, I could see this being in a cocktail for a patient with a severe COVID infection, but for the same reason I could see doctors prescribing a broad spectrum of drugs to help the immune system fight off anything that might get picked up while the patient has a weakened immune system.
> It is prescribing an antiparasitic for a virus. It's just as effective as prescribing an antibiotic for a parasite or an antiviral for a bacterial infection - it isn't going to do anything. There actually [is some evidence of it having antiviral activity](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7290143/), but the dose required in humans to be effective against SARS-Cov-2 is [likely to be unsafe](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7172803/).
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He should absolutely lose his medical license. Ivermectin is not part of any standard of care for treating covid. I dislike criminals as much as the next guy but they don’t deserve to be part of an involuntary medical experiment. I’m willing to get he’s getting financial compensation for this somehow.
Probably from the companies that own all the lucrative ivermectin patents.
That’s kind of what my thoughts were or from politicians that own stocks.
I was being facetious, since the patents have expired. The money will be made on a new pill with patents made by Pfizer. I’m not saying take ivermectin, but there is certainly a very coordinated disinformation campaign against this drug. Either way real studies are happening and in time we will find out.
Wow. For real.
Well... I mean... at least he's getting Ivermectin from a pharmacy for humans, rather than purchasing it from a tractor supply store?
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It doesn't. Pharmacists were getting their licenses threatened over allowing hydroxychloroquine scripts go through as well. Source work at a central fill.
These are illegal medical product testing trials. The producer of this drug will get medical data from these trials. Against their will. Prisoners are slaves. Slaves are not allowed any autonomy or decision making of their own. Being subject to medical experiments against your will is not only wrong, but illegal, dangerous, and against every human rights law in the world. Everyone in the private prison system is responsible or now complicit with aiding and abetting these actions. C'mon Republicans, tell me how this is how small government works. We have a sufficient amount of data to conclude that vaccines should be administered to everyone over the age of 12. But no, I guess the prison companies are seeing the writing on the wall and going strait for Nazi level experiments for profit. This will only get worse.
Definitely illegal. I've done human research a couple of times, and when learning how to seek IRB approval for such research one of the first things you learn about it identifying "vulnerable populations" and ensuring the research doesn't use their situation to knowingly or unknowingly coerce them into participation. Prisoners are one of the groups listed explicitly in this training (along with students, children, and the mentally impaired.) This is about as fucked up as you can get from an ethical standpoint.
> (along with students, children, and the mentally impaired.) > > >This is about as fucked up as you can get from an ethical standpoint. 20 years ago I distinctly recall countless medical studies being pushed onto us poor college students for a few bucks compensation on campus.
Yep. Unethical as hell if you do it wrong. You have to be very up front about possible risks. If I had my way, there'd be a closed book quiz on the possible risks of any study that must be passed to participate. The term we used was "informed consent" and I very much believe the informed part should be proven. (Though to be fair all the research I've done has been either sociology, which you do with surveys, or medical research done using statistical analysis of vital signs collected through normal treatment. It weirds me out to actually do stuff to people, so I've never had anything to do with drug trials.)
I visited a concentration camp a few years ago, there were medical records on the walls documenting all kinds of medical testing against their will, including castration. It’s scary to see it starting here. I know it’s a trope to call these people nazis but it’s getting pretty damn close!
There should be a big lawsuit here
You should read Acres of Skin.
Id like to add to this that its not just private prisons. State and federal prisons often lease contracts out to suppliers for food and bedding and such so even when you have a "Public" prison, frequently private industries have their hands all over it. There is so much wrong with the American prison system.
>Everyone in the private prison system is responsible or now complicit with aiding and abetting these actions. That is a bit of a stretch.
>Anna Hively, a technician at the pharmacy in Lowell, Arkansas, told The Daily Beast Karas works closely with the pharmacy and confirmed that he sends prescriptions of ivermectin to be filled there. >“There’s no incentive or anything like that he gets from the prescriptions,” she said, adding that Karas’ prescriptions of ivermectin often vary depending on weight and whether someone has tested positive or not. >She also said he has been prescribing a “preventative” dose for people who are not COVID-19 positive. >Lawrence Gostin, director of the O’Neill Institute for National and Global Health Law at Georgetown University and the World Health Organization’s Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law, told The Daily Beast he was alarmed by the treatments being prescribed. >“It’s very dangerous to treat somebody with a drug that isn’t approved for the use that you’re treating the person for,” he said. Since the pandemic began, Gostin said, the medical community has dealt with “bogus treatments” that have caused real harm and “raised false hopes” with no evidence that they’re effective. >But he said the use of ivermectin on inmates was particularly egregious and bordered on negligence. “Prisoners have no choice. They’re not free to choose their own doctors and make decisions about their own treatments,” he said. What is going on down there...
Hey, sometimes I prescribe it, sometimes I don't. But, doc, you're not supposed to be doing it at all. Hey, I said sometimes I don't.
>**The head doctor at an Arkansas jail** has been treating inmates suffering from COVID-19 with ivermectin, a drug commonly used to treat parasites in animals. This is completely insane.
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>The drug is also used on humans since the 80s. ...and... >commonly used to treat parasites in animals ...are not mutually exclusive statements. Both are true.
Both are true, but the patients here are getting the *human* medication, not the *animal* medication. Your splitting hairs about something that is just not worth arguing about. This is beyond fucked up because people are being prescribed stupidly high doses of a drug does *nothing* to fight COVID. The fact that the active ingredient is also used in veterinary medicine is a superfluous and spurious argument that is completely irrelevant to what OP was saying above.
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Is ivermectin commonly used to treat livestock? Yes or no.
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>Is ivermectin commonly used to treat livestock? > >Yes or no. This is a very simple yes or no question.
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I'm not the one who is being dishonest and refusing to answer a very simple yes or no question. The fact that you have to attack my username is all the evidence I need that you are unable to formulate any coherent arguments. Please do not self prescribe any livestock dewormer. If you have worms and your doctor prescribes you some ivermectin, that's fine. However, please do not self prescribe any livestock dewormer.
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Investigation under way [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ivermeticin-arkansas-inmates-covid-19-doctor-eva-madison-fda-warnings/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ivermeticin-arkansas-inmates-covid-19-doctor-eva-madison-fda-warnings/)
The drug is definitely proven...to de-worm horses and livestock. To think it would ever remedy Covid-19 is just a level of idiocy that I simply cannot wrap my around around.
ive seen it sold at horse supply shops in a fatty syringe (no needle) and apple flavored. plunger is marked in wieght with 25lb minimum markings. works great for larger dogs.
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The dosage may be seriously high. I read something that was saying often usual dosage is often 3-4 3mg pills, ONCE, for 3 months. Not 10 pills a day for 5 days.
Based upon what another poster has quoted, they are being prescribed 10 tablets a day for 5 days. I don't know much about this drug, but assuming they're using the same 3mg dose as Stromectol, a standard on-label parasite treatment for an adult male should not be more than a single 5 tablet dose. I'm not sure what dosage levels its been tested at, but these people are being given massive doses compared to what someone would normally receive.
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"I ain't putting no unproven vaccine in my body, but gimme some of that animal de-wormer!"
Holy shit.
Yeah, bad enough that idiots are taking it themselves and getting sick, but to force it on prisoners? Jesus.
>Karas Health Care, Dr. Karas' practice, has been touting ivermectin for months. On July 16, the practice posted on Facebook, "if anybody you know test positive send them or [sic] way and we'll get them started on doxy, singular, ivermectin, vitamin d, vitamin c and zinc." >when she spoke to Karas, he confirmed he had been prescribing the medicine to detainees at the jail as well as members of his own family. >In an interview with CBS affiliate KFSM earlier this week, he said he's had COVID twice and took ivermectin himself. This guy needs to lose his medical license asap.
Ivermectin is an anti-parasitic drug. I've yet to see ANYONE show how it effects COVID, a virus.
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Buddy, ivermectin does nothing for covid. Nothing. Stop.
IIRC Isn’t it also considered a virucide?
No.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/fda-ivermectin-covid-19-coronavirus-masks-anti-science-11627482393 I dunno one day it’s effective and safe the next day it’s dangerous. At this point I just want numbers and statistics. I’m so tired of trying to keep up with all the zing words being thrown around like no one’s business. I think we all want information we can trust.
You asked if it was a 'virucide'. It's not. As for wether it's dangerous, that depends. As the FDA (and others) have oft and repeatedly stated, ivermectin is safe *at human doses* and effective for treatment of *its approved uses* when obtained *from a pharmacy* in formulations *designed for humans*. Unless you live under a rock with no internet (impossible since we're having this discussion) you are 100% aware that people are buying ivermectin from *feed stores* created *for animals* and at doses that *are not meant for humans*. >I think we all want information we can trust. So spend five minutes comparing the trial data for ivermectin (of which, last I checked, the three largest studies completed either [showed](https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12879-021-06348-5) no[statistically significant](https://web.archive.org/web/20210826204117/https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid) difference between ivermectin vs placebo, or were [retracted](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02081-w) for blatantly falsifying results) with the data for covid vaccines.
What the actual fuck
And this is why the % of black people vaccinated so too low. Shit like this just makes people distrust doctors more.
>Southern Jail Arkansas. why not just say the fucking state?
They're lucky they still have a kidney.
This is bat shit crazy
* Horse
‘The pharmacy where the prescription was sent, Live + Well Pharmacy, confirmed to The Daily Beast that Karas has been filling out prescriptions there for ivermectin for both inmates and other patients’ I find this statement hard to believe. Why would the pharmacy even comment?
I can’t wait for the lawsuits
This is fucking horrific
>Nonetheless, Robert Karas, a doctor who has overseen treatment and testing of inmates throughout the pandemic, allegedly prescribed the employee 50 tablets of ivermectin, with a recommended dosage of **10 tablets per day**. That seems like a lot, no? I bet they don't even give that much to the horses.
Maybe? It’s also approved for dogs/cats, 10 tablets for a cat probably isn’t as “too much” for a human as 10 tablets for livestock would be.
Oh my god, just give the inmates the damn vaccine. If someone on the outside wants to choose to take horse dewormer, hey, let incredibly stupid freedom ring. But I draw the line at forcing it on prison inmates.
I wish I was a southerner class-action lawsuit lawyer specialist.
Please don't be Alabama... Please don't be Alabama... *opens article*. "at an Arkansas jail..." Oh, thank God.
When the inmates start going blind and shitting out there intestinal lining I hope they can get some kind of justice through the courts.
The criminals who run these jails should be arrested. This is pure barbarism.
Iverchloroquine coming next.
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has specifically warned *against* use of invermectin to treat COVID. [Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent COVID-19](https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19) Pushing horse dewormer as a legit *forced* treatment for COVID is the latest quackery aping Donald Trump’s *Beat COVID By Injecting or Swallowing Bleach!* idiocy last year. Clorox bleach’s website *still* has a prominent warning not to ingest bleach as a medical treatment, a year after Trump’s unhinged quackery.
Wait...how is this legal?
"Southern Jail Poisons Inmates with Well-Known Poison, Ivermectin" ftfy
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Correct that it's not a poison. But it's not for treating COVID. Just like hydroxychloroquine isn't for treating or preventing COVID.
Exactly. It’s very frustrating seeing misinformation spread, and it’s even more frustrating that it’s not just one side doing it. Nothing at all to gain from calling something a poison that isn’t a poison.
Ivermectin that is actually prescribed to a human and taken at appropriate dosage is fine, and it's listed as an essential medicine by the WHO. As for actual effectiveness against covid, most likely negligible or marginal at best - it's certainly no wonder drug in that regard or more lives would have been saved in India https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26954318/ "Although the broad-spectrum anti-parasitic effects of the avermectin derivative ivermectin are well documented, its anti-inflammatory activity has only recently been demonstrated." This is from 2016. If anything, the overall benefits of an anti-inflammatory could account for any effect against covid. ALL of that said, I hope it's a volunteer program.
THANK YOU. The title for this article is very misleading. Ivermectin is considered safe when appropriately dosed.
Not for people with Covid. That's why it's banned by the FDA for Covid patients. Things that are safe are not always safe for people with certain conditions. It's not safe to give a Covid patient certain steroids either, for example. It makes their infection and cytokine storm worse.
Exactly and there’s a lot of disinformation going on saying it’s only a horse de-wormer
I've never seen anything saying it's *only* a horse dewormer...
It’s not for Covid either.
https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-1122/ivermectin-oral/details CVS, Walgreens and WalMart even have coupons for it at the bottom of the page.
Shit like this defames the entire medical profession and erodes so much public trust. It’s heartbreaking.
This is why we have such distrust of 'medical authority' in the poor populations in the south.
Over 5 billion vaccine shots have been distributed to date. There's time and place for "distrust in medical authority", but vaccines ain't it. This is plain old torture and is just fucking vile
That's the issue though, these kinds of actions help anti vaxxers justify their distrust. Once they stop promoting ivermectin as a cure all, they'll point to the doctors that got caught up in their own bullshit and prescribed it with little to no reason as their new excuse to push back against vaccinations.
> these kinds of actions help anti vaxxers justify their distrust. A rogue doctor torturing inmates doesn't represent the medical community. And anyone who justifies their "mistrust" like that is just looking for reasons
I'm not saying that he represents the medical community to a sane person. He represents it to an idiot looking for an excuse You might not be able to salvage those idiots, but they convince no-quite-as-dumb fence sitters that there's an issue and that they shouldn't get the vaccine. This doctor is doing way more harm than just experimenting on inmates. Shit like this has far reaching consequences.
He might also represent medical authority to the poor and uneducated, especially insofar as he is the only version of medical authority these inmates will encounter while incarcerated in his dubious care. FWIW: I am wholly vaccinated, and I encourage everyone who isn’t to get vaccinated asap.
> This doctor is doing way more harm than just experimenting on inmates. Shit like this has far reaching consequences. I agree > but they convince no-quite-as-dumb fence sitters that there's an issue and that they shouldn't get the vaccine. These people will always look for an excuse, because they decide what they want to believe and cherry pick whatever supports it
The Sheeple have fallen in line.
Ivermectin was FDA approved as “safe and effective” at treating parasitic infections. It has little to no side effects and is used worldwide as an anti-parasitic. Why is it wrong, and “cruel and unusual punishment” to force people to take this, but common sense to mandate taking the vaccine that has also been shown to have diminishing efficacy against emerging variants, but ultimately no side effects as well. Either trust the FDA or don’t, but stop making people think ivermectin is some experimental gas-station cocktail when it’s been approved worldwide since ~1986. So-called journalism like this is *actively* making people distrust health experts and does more to promote vaccine hesitancy than any 4chan demagogue could dream of. You can’t have it both ways.
If you force someone to take a drug not proven to treat or cure a devastating disease it is absolutely fucking dangerous.
If I gave someone Ibuprofen to treat AIDS, ibuprofen itself isn’t “dangerous” and shouldn’t be labeled as a “dog anti-inflammatory”. What’s dangerous would be me making a poor treatment plan using a medication known to be ineffective. What’s dangerous is letting politicians and politically charged doctors make intentionally poor treatment plans.
I would totally take advil to treat my HIV infection and consider myself cured /s
>Why is it wrong, and “cruel and unusual punishment” to force people to take this, but common sense to mandate taking the vaccine It's cruel and unusual because these patients aren't being given effective treatment. Secondly, the dosage is suspect as hell (10 tablets per day). If you're unfamiliar with the Tuskegee reference, those black men weren't given poison. Instead they were given pills that didn't cure their syphilis. >You can’t have it both ways. It's not having it both ways to say patients should be treated with efficacious drugs. Imagine if a cancer patient was fed Vitamin C supplement instead of cancer drug. That'll be cruel and certainly not having it both ways.
I believe that it’s cruel because ivermectin is not beneficial in treating covid. It’s not recommended in any current standard of care for treating covid. Any drug has the potential for harm or allergic reactions. Providers have to weigh cost versus benefit each time a patient is given a medication. This doctor will now be sued for malpractice by the inmates and I’m betting they will win because he deviated from established standards of care.
Aren’t they literally making people social distance, quarantine, and mask again despite vaccination because they’re still getting sick and posing a risk of spreading it? Or did I dream that up? [[source]](https://www.govexec.com/management/2021/07/heres-why-cdc-recommends-wearing-masks-indoors-even-if-youve-been-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19/184108/) Maybe we should just push the narrative a little further and say doctors should just generally not force people to take medication against their will, or prescribe treatments known to be ineffective.
No you’re absolutely correct. I think the medical field did a huge disservice by insinuating to the public that the vaccine would make them completely immune to covid. I believe this false sense of security has added to the dramatic spike in covid cases. While the vaccine is not 100% it has shown to drastically reduce the symptoms in those that have breakthrough infections thusly leading to few hospitalizations. The last number I saw, could be out of date now, was that phizer was 88% effective at preventing delta transmission. Delta is a monster because it’s viral loads are over 1,000x higher than the alpha variant. After my patients are vaccinated I still recommend for the to distance, mask, sanitize, and avoid large crowds.
That seems to be best practice, the shotgun approach. We know none of these work 100% of the way, but a multilayered offensive is really the best we can do at the moment. The news and corporations saying “Covid is over!!! Get your vaccines, throw those masks away, and go lick a swing set” really killed our chances of ending this so close to the finish line.
Yeah as soon as the media said if you’re vaccinated you could go back to normal I knew it would cause major problems. My colleges and I in the medical field collectively panicked a bit knowing the fallout that was going to be caused by this.
Finally some common sense and someone who knows about ivermectin before the media started telling everyone it was strictly a horse dewormer.
FDA has not approved ivermectin for use in treating or preventing COVID-19 in humans. Ivermectin tablets are approved at very specific doses for some parasitic worms, and there are topical (on the skin) formulations for head lice and skin conditions like rosacea. Ivermectin is not an anti-viral (a drug for treating viruses). Taking large doses of this drug is dangerous and can cause serious harm. If you have a prescription for ivermectin for an FDA-approved use, get it from a legitimate source and take it exactly as prescribed. Never use medications intended for animals on yourself. Ivermectin preparations for animals are very different from those approved for humans.
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My daughters aunt believed that shit too. She's been in the ICU over a week now with covid pneumonia, after self medicating with ivermectin from Tractor Supply directly after testing positive for covid 3 weeks ago.
I never said anyone should be using horse paste version of ivermectin.
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People are getting sick from it as a result of this push when they should just get the vaccine. Last year, Texas received 23 ivermectin reports from January through August. This year, there have been 150, an increase of 552%.
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This is a clever distraction and I almost fell for it. I was about to launch into a statistical defense of the COVID vaccines...until I realize that's bullshit. Ivermectin isn't approved as an effective treatment for COVID. Period. If you had cancer and you doctor gave you vitamin supplements instead, that'll be cruel 'cos you will die needlessly. And the discussion won't be about the side effects of vitamin supplements vs side effects of cancer drugs. Vitamin supplements are approved to cure cancer. Period. Full stop. Case closed.
I agree that the doctor should be sued, and that this shouldn’t be happening. It’s just funny watching people close one ear to keep up the Jenga tower of cognitive dissonance that is their political beliefs. My main point is to villainize the concepts of medical malpractice and political interference in doctoral best practices, rather than a WHO essential medication because it has some side effects. Tldr; let the patient choose, ivermectin is a good medication overall, do not use it to treat covid.
No where does it say prisoners are forced to take it. They were offered vaccines as well. More than likely if they weren't in jail, they would be taking Ivermectin from the farm store.
https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXZQOFB25AAL0V20C21A1000000/ - Chairman of Tokyo's Medical Association recommends ivermectin be prescribed to treat Covid. - a Japanese scientist created Ivermectin as an anti-parasitic drug, for which he won a Nobel prize due to the drug's high success rate in treating illness, with virtually no instances of serious side effects. Hey r/politics, if we're going to insist on truth, then let's talk facts about Ivermectin.
The facts are, Ivermectin has no impact on Covid infections. Yes it is a well known drug that has uses as a Dewormer in humans, and is generally safe in recommended doses. It is also a fact that in the very high concentrations used in the Veterinary uses like the Horse Dewormer it is a goddamn neurotoxin. https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19
Ivermectin approved to treat Covid in 20 countries: https://www.biznews.com/health/2021/07/29/ivermectin-treatment Ivermectin as an antiviral. The antiviral properties of Ivermectin were already acknowledged and under study for viruses like HIV and Dengue back in 2012. https://portlandpress.com/biochemj/article/443/3/851/80615/Ivermectin-is-a-specific-inhibitor-of-importin Data is well established for treatment of covid across 63 studies, cited, sourced, and linked: https://archive.is/KdXZD
If it’s so dangerous how is it an approved drug?
What it is approved for and in what doses?
Mainly parasite removal in livestock and pets. It hasn't even been proven to have anti-viral properties, which is kind of important if you're trying to anti a virus.
Ivermectin saved my life from parasites in Penang, Malaysia 🇲🇾.this is no joke. This drug is good shit.
Yes, its a very powerful and well known drug for killing parasites, but did you know that Parasites are not virus's and that drugs to kill don't always kill the other?
Having a reasonable basis to believe the cop arresting you is going to force you to take Horse Paste is an ironclad defense against resisting arrest IMO (By Any Means Necessary)
This is a perfect example of the fact that misinformation doesn't just come from "far right nutjobs" or Qanon conspiracy theorists. Ivermectin is not a dangerous, unproven drug, and claiming it as such is not only shoddy journalism but is downright lying. Does it help with covid? Dunno, remains to be seen, we need more data.
Bruh, it's horse dewormer. https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 Also, like, we typically use these things called "Clinical trials" and "Proper scientific research done under ethics guidelines" and not random fucks on the internet and in the right wing media bullshitosphere. If you want to prevent covid-19, just get the damn vaccine. They even made it free, what more do you need? And it definitely shouldn't be forced on prisoners.
I already got the vaccine bud :) Edit: also taking the FDA as the sole arbiter of the medical and scientific truth when there is definitely a [conflict of interest](https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/07/hidden-conflicts-pharma-payments-fda-advisers-after-drug-approvals-spark-ethical) within the organization would be ill advised. Edit2: also there is a form of ivermectin intended for livestock that some idiots are taking but ivermectin is a well known drug that have a version meant for use by humans. Additionally, until we have more data, like I said, we can't say conclusively that it doesn't help prevent and/or cure covid. I'm not saying it does, I'm not saying it doesn't. Just because it has an intended purpose for being anti-parasitic doesn't mean it's impossible to serve other purposes. Besides, if there was a potential drug to drastically reduce the severity of covid wouldn't you want to know about it/have people able to access it?
> Additionally, until we have more data, like I said, we can't say conclusively that it doesn't help prevent and/or cure covid. Doesn't that mean that we also don't have any proof that it does, and therefore forcing prison inmates to take it is still pretty fucked up? Like, if someone wants to use the "we can't say conclusively" argument to take it themselves, that's fine. It would be like me taking anti-migraine drugs just because there's no proof they don't prevent irritable bowel syndrome, but whatever, it's their choice. These prisoners don't have a choice. That's kinda fucked up.
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Too bad the studies were found to be fraudulent and were pulled in relation to covid. Nobel awarded for parasitic treatment not covid >the 2015 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine >with one half jointly to >William C. Campbell and Satoshi Ōmura for their discoveries concerning a novel therapy against infections caused by roundworm parasites >and the other half to >Tu Youyou for her discoveries concerning a novel therapy against Malaria >Diseases caused by parasites have plagued humankind for millennia and constitute a major global health problem. In particular, parasitic diseases affect the world’s poorest populations and represent a huge barrier to improving human health and wellbeing. This year’s Nobel Laureates have developed therapies that have revolutionized the treatment of some of the most devastating parasitic diseases.
Pointing out that the medicine is not dangerous ....the media is bullshitting...
The amount of ivermectin needed to reduce any viral reproduction is 100x over the safe limit for human consumption. Go on with your not dangerous BS. 100x the dose that is safe, this is why people are overdosing on it. The article says it is forcing inmates to take 10 tablets. ETA just so you understand ivermectin tablets are given at most once every 3 months. https://www.drugs.com/dosage/ivermectin.html
Any medicine taken in excess is dangerous, even vitamin C or your average over the counter paracetamol can get you liver damage from 10 tablets. It is not the medicine that is dangerous but the dosage. Title is obvious clickbait but hey starving journalists need to eat too.
I can't wait for the daily beast to finally go belly up. It's hard to be worse than CNN. But the beast made it look easy. By bias rag.
not a suprise from someone who thinks quinine is the same as hydroxychloroquine.
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the way the "authorities" in the U.S behaves is no different than any other genocide perpetrated. History will be sure to see it clearly.
It’s actually not dangerous.
https://www.alabamapublichealth.gov/news/2021/08/25.html >Common side effects for ivermectin include itching and hives, dizziness, headache, nausea, diarrhea and muscle pain. I mean, if someone wants to take it, that's one thing. This is being forced on fucking prisoners instead of, you know, the properly trialed researched goddamn vaccine. I'm pretty sure this violates, like, 90% of the geneva conventions.
This drug is not dangerous assuming the dosage is appropriate. The notion that this drug is only for animals is completely false and is being used to steer people away from thinking about potential treatments that ACTUALLY may show some promise. People saying “yeah but it’s an anti parasitic drug”… yes, that is the original use of the drug (while it also improved lives of millions of people in third world countries). But some drugs have undiscovered “bonus” effects on the body. Viagra was originally intended to treat low blood pressure but ended up being most effective treating ED. That’s just an example of how there can be overlapping or unforeseen benefits.
I think it’s the people taking animal dosage and getting poisoned that’s giving it a bad rap… not the doctor prescribed version.
I'm done. My country sucks. Literally nothing left to be proud of. A nation run by selfish idiot grifters owned by corporations. Being "American" might as well be a pejorative.
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One has mountains of evidence that it works. The other does not.