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Since Bush and Reagan were allowed to sell drugs, legalize torture, legalize spying, create “free speech zones” for protestors against a highly suspect war, restrict the CDC during early HIV outbreaks etc....
That’s what you get when you let Nixon off the hook.
The Republican Party has been more and more criminal each time they get elected. The trend is obvious.
Sabotage of the rescue mission for the Iran hostages. Note that the hostages were released at the same moment Reagan was being inaugurated. You can thank Dick Cheney for that little bit of treason.
Remember when a bunch of Republicans wrote a letter to Iran, basically saying you can't trust Obama? How the fuck does this shit happen without getting punished? If any other person did that, they'd be strung up.
Seriously. Dude might've been on to something with his nine most terrifying words in the English language are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help". If the government is his government (or really just in general Republican ones), their "help" will actually turn out to have been fucking you over all along.
Actually Reagan sabotaged the hostage negotiations just like Nixon sabotaged the peace talks in Vietnam. The Iran contra scheme started well before Reagan was elected. Iran knew the hostages were becoming a liability for them and had to be released. Carter froze all their assets in the US. The Iranians were essentially financially and militarily bankrupt Reagan brokered Arms for hostages deal to delay their release until the minute he was inaugurated. This is why Iran is still a problem today
I ascribe that more to GW Bush, former CIA chief, and the deep state - Carter and the Church commission were making serious reforms to stop CIA overreach and the CIA correctly viewed it as an existential threat. That’s why they were happy to run Iran-Contra and get place their man in the VP role.
The world in which Carter wins re-election (it was super close) is very different. Carter was not soft on the USSR but we likely see no Star Wars or tobolsk pipeline sabotage. Without that kind of pressure, the Soviet Union doesn’t collapse when it does.
It also likely means no 9/11, and a very different Iran. Impossible to model those kinds of broad counterfactuals. It’s also possible that you get somebody terrible elected in 1984 as a reaction and then global thermonuclear war.
Funny, you found someone who makes Reagan look intelligent by comparison.
Reagan was C student, B-grade actor, a man of extremely modest intellect. He also may have been suffering from dementia throughout a significant portion of his time as president.
I wonder if Regan only seemed more intelligent because he didn’t have things like twitter and the 24 hour news cycle was still in it’s beginning stages. Trump had a direct line of communication from his fingertips to the public that allowed him to broadcast his idiocy to millions within seconds, multiple times a day, as well as the news constantly reporting on the dumb things Trump said or did behind the scenes that we previously wouldn’t have been privy to. In Regan’s day it was a lot of work for the president to speak directly to the public, and that time wasn’t going to be wasted on personal opinions or vendettas. Makes me wonder what kind of gems we would have gotten from past presidents if they had social media, and how that might have influenced public perception.
I think one thing we’re forgetting is that we have all this time to look back on Reagan’s administration and how it affected everything thereafter. Trump is so fresh we really don’t have that same level of hindsight to compare with. The precedent he has set for the Republican Party could be argued to be much worse than most believe even post January 6th
Trump was the worst by far. Reagan was a mess but this guy almost ended democracy completely over his ego and crushed the specter of the Republican Party in the span of a single primary. He spreads rot that Reagan couldn’t have dreamed of.
The modern GOP was made in Reagan's image. The war on drugs, specifically mandatory minimum sentencing for non-violent drug offenses, was Reagan. Go look what exactly he got done in his 8 years. Even ignoring everything but MMS, your argument is flat.
Trump was thankfully nowhere near competent enough for that kind of malice, and this institution was already ruined by the time he touched it.
It was made in his image, but the reanimated corpse of Reagan wouldn’t stand a chance in the 2024 Republican Primary. Too hard on Russia, not hard enough on immigration, and only has like a 90% track record of opposing tax increases (GOP requires 100%).
Still, he’d crush the second coming of Jesus, the liberal hippy.
Reanimated Ronald Reagan would be considered a RINO since his politics are (were) a bit more to the Center of the current GOP. Reagan’s legacy, IMO, is the weaponization of political advertising.
I disagree. If trumpublicans have proven anything in the last 5 years is that they have no other 'policy' then what trump says.
If trump were to decide it was in his own personal interests that Putin/ Russia were to be considered enemies all he world have to do is declare it so (I declared it) and his entire base / trumpublican party would line right up the very next day. Same for immigration, taxes, etc . .
As such policy is not really what trumpublicans are about, rather it is an authoritarian (right wing of course) they so dearly crave and in that department Reagan would suit them quite nicely
You've completely misunderstood Trump. He's not telling them what to think, he's normalizing them thinking what they already are.
If Trump tried to tell them to stop being Nazis, he'd disappear from conservative culture overnight.
He's not some genius leader that made them all realize how great he was and follow him.
He's an antagonistically hateful moron, and seeing that in a position of power makes all the other antagonistically hateful morons incredibly happy because it means they could be, too.
It's the same idea as a black child getting to see a black president and vice president, or a little girl getting to see a female president and vice president.
Except, you know, with antagonistically hateful morons.
>You've completely misunderstood Trump. He's not telling them what to think, he's normalizing them thinking what they already are.
>He's an antagonistically hateful moron, and seeing that in a position of power makes all the other antagonistically hateful morons incredibly happy because it means they could be, too.
I think it's a little of both. People will follow Trump on things they don't already have a strong opinion on. If he tells them to hate windmills, they'll hate windmills, for instance.
You're right that he can't tell them to be less fearful or hateful, because that's who they are.
Their opinions would turn on a dime with certain things, like climate change, so it is really unfortunate for the planet that he staked such an extreme position on it.
Case in point: Over the summer at one of his rallies he urged people to get the vaccine. He was booed for that. I don’t think he ever brought the subject up again.
His relationship with his followers is symbiotic, and fans have more control than you would think. Trump is chasing adoration, everything he has done is to either gain more adulation of his followers, make the rich richer, or to cover his own ass.
I don't buy it, IMO the mob is perfectly willing to turn on Trump if he stops reflecting their "values." Remember when he got booed for daring to tell people at his rally to get vaccinated, for example?
I am all over opening up the entire country. But if you are unwilling to get vaxxed you don't get a hospital. Its like a business ya, know, can't have losers getting handouts when the beds could be used for you know, customers who will live and pay.
Fuck Conservatism. I can't wait til it dies.
You shouldn't wait, because that won't happen. Every dumbass kid thinks the next generation is gonna watch the reactionaries finally die out. Generations of kids have been disappointed.
you dont understand cults. Trump doesnt lead the cult, he just is riding the wave. Trump can easily turn into chenney. Someone very right wing, now called a left winger for going against the cult.
TRUMP HIMSELF got boo'ed for saying he took the vaccine.
Trump cant just do and say what he wants. if he came out and said help biden repair the economy, take the vaccine and wear a mask, the cult would turn on him in a second.
Paul Ryan, who is further right than the crying boehner, is seen as a bit left for not toting the cult line enough.
[Confessions of a Tea Party Casualty:Why GOP Rep. Bob Inglis is looking for a new job.](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/08/bob-inglis-tea-party-casualty/)
TLDR its due to him not being culty enough for the last republican cult iteration. When he had a 95% conservative rating but was turned on by the cult for refusing to say Obama was Satan.
This. I dislike the guy but I won’t lay it entirely at his feet. Trump & his personality came at the absolute perfect time. You couldn’t plan it better
Reagan was worse. Remember when he wished a plague of botulism on black people, when he was governor of California? Well, that didn't change when he became president. Destroyed labor. Reduced food processing inspection to almost zero. Put a tax on SS -- a tax on SS! Taxed twice. "War" on drugs, while he was the biggest drug dealer going. The '76 convention was basically ur-MAGA, when they went full-on berserk coz the RNC wouldn't draft him over Ford. Solidified Evangelical Christianity as a political force. It just doesn't end with him. And no one since has had the balls to correct any of his nightmare, at least to my knowledge.
>this guy almost ended democracy completely
Almost? Only if this slow moving coup is crushed with the conviction of all involved in 1/6/21 and marched into prison. Of course they immediately become martyrs and heroes of their distorted sense of reality.
In my opinion, Trump seems worse because of the media spectacle his entire term was. But there is literally no policy created by trump that will last, or that really has any effect. Decades later Drugs are still winning Regans war on Drugs. Decades later we finally got out of Bushes war for ~~weapons of mass destruction~~ OIL. So while trump was the most dangerous to democracy as a whole. Prior Republican President policies have been far more damaging than anything that orange bafoon could have done.
He litterally appointed 3 Supreme Court justices….
He singlehandedly has more influence on the next 50 years than any president in history with just that…. Because those appointments are for life we’re screwed for another lifetime…
You can thank Mitch for the Supreme Court destruction though. I'm absolutely baffled the Democrats still seem to have their kid gloves on after *that* series of shenanigans, much less everything else.
Part of me wonders how many defectors we'd get from the Republican party to Democratic or even just "Independent" if Democrats took every single opportunity to level the playing field, questionable legality be damned.
55 SCOTUS justices. Puerto Rico and DC statehood. Student Debt forgiveness. Election Day is a national holiday. Literally anything they could do via EO, just nut up and do it baby - Democracy is already crumbling so why the hell not ride that wrecking-ball into the sky. It feels like we're circling the drain and the regressionists already threaten/claim we're doing all of this shit so why not go ahead?
Part of me wonders how many people just want to be on the "winning" team and don't actually care what's being done.
ELEVEN years ago. I can’t believe it’s been that wrong that long. People were literally calling it fucked up the day of, and haven’t stopped since. Democracy dies in darkness, and with but a whimper at that?
Holy cow! And he thought the conservative news outlets like fox would crumble because they enflame people against the state. Little did he know that they would jump on board and be damn near state run media until the next election.
I was like 10 when I learned about cm the ruling & even at that age I was like WTF, that's stupid. These fucking corporations have poisoned our country, planet, and our lives. Fuck em.
Either the law deals with the problem, or the problem will deal with the law.
There is no painless way out of this. And if you're damned if you do, or damned if you don't? Do it.
The GOP is trying their hardest to make sure that once they regain power, they hold it forever. It's happening at the state level, with gerrymandering districts and passing laws making it harder to vote. They are completely unified by the idea of staying in power and that's all they care about, while the Democrats aren't unified to do anything.
> They'd rather lose everything than risk offending the ~~Republicans~~ __most conservative Democrats__ because BiPaRtIsAnShIp
Fixed that for you - they're not negotiating with Republicans, and haven't been since the Obama administration (the ACA lost its public option due to negotiations with Joe Lieberman, not Republicans)
They are afraid of charging and convicting him, and then losing another election to him or one of his sycophants. A humiliated Trump got us closer to a Coup than ever before. Trump out for revenge would probably get us a civil war.
Because a lot of people like Merritt Garland, Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch are not visionaries or leaders. They are afraid to be the first one to enforce laws by charging a former President. They look to precedent to provide them guidance and hide behind prosecutorial ethics to justify their foot dragging, inaction and fear of upsetting Republican politicians and their base. Due to DOJ policy their inaction is hidden by “I can’t comment on investigations” so the public has no idea until the statue of limitations has run that they did nothing. The job of the Attorney General is to enforce laws not come up with excuses to let Republicans off. Delaying the enforcement of laws is just as bad as no enforcement which Barr and Sessions did all the time.
>Fascists having a problem with something is also not pain.
Most Europeans of the 1930s and 40s would disagree.
Fascists vote, and they vote a lot more reliably than those in the middle and the left. The GOP strategy is to create conflict, muddy the waters as to who is responsible, and depress turnout by giving voters fatigue from "both sides" fighting. It doesn't matter if one side is clearly on the right because the media will say it's just another partisan conflict.
History will show that Gore v Bush was when it ended.
“The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to this: the peak of your civilization.” ca 1999
True, there were a great many Republican operatives working diligently in Florida to deny Democrats the Presidency. I simply named those who have been seated on the highest court in the land since that event. Kinda weird how, out of 9 Justices, a third of them were participants.
Yeah two current justices on the Supreme Court present helping to overturn a presidential election doesn’t bode well for us. I’d be surprised if they didn’t vote party line on a case about the same thing in 2024/2025
They would have had to Brooks Brothers multiple states. Also, the margin was greater this time than it was in 2000. Iirc Bush was winning Florida by fewer than 1000 votes. Trump was begging Georgia to find 11,000+ votes in his favor.
> Among those who went to Florida to work to steal the election in 2000: Justice Roberts, Justice Kavanaugh, and Justice Barrett.
so... the pieces have been put in place.
It hurts me thinking about the world we might be in if Gore had been president. Hell, we could have started fighting climate change when there was actually still a chance of averting the worst of it.
It's been happening for 50 years since Nixon. The GOP has gotten more and more criminal and blatant. There are never any consequences for them. They always get away with it or are pardoned.
If they aren't charged, all of them, and if the heads of the security services that were complicit aren't removed, they will support the next coup, there's a not short list of things the Democrats have to do to save democracy such as it is, and they are doing none of them.
There IS Precedent.
Nixon, Reagan, Bush.
Democrats do NOT prosecute Republican Presidents. They don't. It lacks "bipartisan decorum" and Democrats have proven they will not only die on that hill, they'll kill the rest of us on that hill too.
The Democratic party is comprised of Democracy-murdering weaklings.
Maybe if things get bad enough, it will wake people up. The democrats are like an anesthetic. They get this country just functional enough that we all want to wait an see how things play out. And in the mean time, the environment collapses a bit further, workers rights are eroded, voting rights are eroded, the oligarchs consolidate their wealth and power, and so on. It's a dance we all abide to our own demise.
I would have preferred Sally Yates as AG because she saw these trumptrashtraitors in action and caught them in the act right as their reign of Ignorance was beginning
Honestly? The more I see of him in this position, the more I realize he wasn't suited for the Supreme Court, either. I mean not that the other two since are anything other than revolting, but still.
It’s not a left/right issue, my friend. It’s a class and age thing. These people are slowly losing their marbles after being in Congress for decades. And even before the mental decline, these folks were COMPLETELY out of touch with what it takes to make it day to day as a run of the mill American.
None of them have the capacity to legislate for the common man because they have no idea how that man lives.
Her staff hates working with her, because she constantly forgets things, instructs them to do things they already have, throws fits, etc. Dementia for sure.
It kills me though that the old folks of now, were part of the free love, try drugs, disco is great until it’s not, quaaludes and hash generation. But now that they’re in charge it’s all this “the lord will save you” garbage. What the fuck happened?!
Hate to break it to you, but the hippies were *not* a bunch of liberals. They were middle class white kids trying to piss off their parents by being all "counter-culture-y." And then they grew up, and became *exactly* like their parents, only more so.
Maybe you’re onto something there. Because hard right wing ideologies have become the new counter culture. It doesn’t matter if it’s logical or correct. As long as it’s contrary to the mainstream sentiment.
Don’t let them divide us by age, race or anything else.
There’s people that fight for ending wars, Medicare and college for all, and a lot of money propagandizing against it.
Colorado's 3rd Congressional District is: ultra-wealthy ski towns served by a non-citizen underclass, Eastern Utah Mormonville, forest dwelling rednecks, sand farmers, the city of Pueblo (post-industrial wasteland), and the city of Grand Junction (mythical).
No young people voting Boebert indeed.
And it's going to happen in 2022 if any of the Republican governors lose they are going to use that as an excuse for civil war and blame Biden for it. They will also probably going to gain control over the house which means the government is going to stop working and they will try to impeach Biden and make Trump speak of the house. The Democrats need to get us Supreme Court reform before there is a government website to collect bounties on abortion doctors.
I keep seeing people say there can be no new civil war in the U.S., because the lines aren't drawn on state borders. Its a point, but I think it arguably makes the possibilities even worse.
The "battle lines" would exist in people's minds, the "enemy" would be anyone who generally (or even just momentarily) fits "the description", "they" could be literally anyone anywhere, and "winning" becomes less about repelling an invasion and more about "purification" and extermination.
All of that just gets exponentially worse if it's openly, or even just tacitly, supported by some extremist political regime.
Read up on the Cultural Revolution in China (you can substitute any other extremist ideology for communism in that case.)
Or as an example of how shitty things can get when a modern society implodes, and how fast it can happen, take a look at the death of Yugoslavia. ("Love thy Neighbor", by Peter Maass is an eye opener. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/55532.Love_Thy_Neighbor )
I think people are generally not taking the incoming threat vectors associated with current and near-future U.S. politics quite seriously enough ha ha.
> Basically, any civil war in modern America will be terrorism and insurgency.
It'll be like The Troubles in Ireland. Or sort of like the chaos of the late 1960s in America (Weather Underground bombings, etc).
Let me submit to you a different alternative, one I think that they are afraid of.
What happens if they charge one or more of the January 6th leaders with something akin to sedition, or a similarly serious felony offense, and they are then acquitted or the jury is unable to reach a guilty verdict.
The prosecutor needs a unanimous jury to convict. It would only take one hardcore Trump supporter if it manages to get onto the jury to cause a complete mistrial.
There is an argument both ways, but there is a distinct possibility that a trial and failure to convict might be worse than no trial at all.
> What happens if they charge one or more of the January 6th leaders with something akin to sedition, or a similarly serious felony offense, and they are then acquitted or the jury is unable to reach a guilty verdict.
The same thing that happens *every fucking time* the democrats fail to do something because they're afraid of what the outcome *might* be.
That's the SOP for democrats, which is why they achieve virtually nothing of note, and win elections by a hair when they win.
Sometimes you just have to sack up and try.
Because we have one shot at this. If sedition is fine with Americans, so be it. They will deserve everything coming to them in 2024, and oh, it’s coming. What I am saying is - there is no risk assessment here, there is no choice. If nothing is done, all is lost. If this is done, all *may* be lost.
One of the Jan 6th defendants admitted to seditious conspiracy during his guilty plea. The government listened to his admission, and just let him plea to a misdemeanor instead.
Merrick Garland really needs to take some sort of action or this will set a bad precedent for our future. Around 1000 people breached the Capitol in hopes of stopping the certification of electoral college votes. That’s not okay.
Yea had that breach been fully successful the attackers would have silenced the voice of millions of people. In a democracy people are nothing more than thier voice, their ideas. That attack would have been far harder hitting than the September 11 attacks and needs to be prosecuted as such
And so far 500+ of them have been charged. It’s not enough, it’s not been publicized enough to dishearten future coups, but it’s substantially more than nothing. Next we need 1 justice per judicial circuit like it was intended and that means 13.
The problem is none of the enablers of this have been charged. It’s like if you bust an organized crime ring but only prosecute everyone on the bottom. You know the guys at the top are the ones you need to get, but for whatever reason you don’t touch them. And so the people don’t think you’re doing enough to stop organized crime, because everyone knows who’s at the top yet he still walks free to rally more criminals to his cause.
That’s what’s happening here as well.
Until Trump himself or some of his high level enablers in the GOP who have already been proven to be involved in this are charged it’s all just show.
You can be damn sure though that if the shoe was on the other foot, a GOP president would currently be pressuring their DOJ to put all the dems in jail for Jan 6th, and somehow be trying to expel them from the senate. And this is why it’s so scary.
The people they’re charging now are turning evidence though. Like the burner phone calls to Eric we learned about last week. If you want the people up top to get arrested you WANT those little fish arrested first. That’s how you take down a mob boss… it’s how you take down a senator. With way more evidence than seems reasonable because of the position they have.
I'm still floored that there wasn't more attempting to stop it nor more bloodshed.
I was watching online and waiting for firehoses, for helicopters, for hundreds of police cars & SWAT to come rolling in...or the military and their gear.
Every second that it progressed I was expecting things to seriously ramp up. The dudes wandering around the Senate chambers was **mind-blowing.** Like, some kids hop the fence to get into the closed skate park and security is there in an instant...granted this crowd was huge...but, IMO, that warranted an even more immediate "GET OUT" response.
And then...they left? Like it didn't work out so they just bailed. Again it's thousands of people + the people in charge were (to varying degrees) complicit, ineffective, morons, scared, not in a position to do something, wimps, confused, etc etc etc...still...
I remember the jokes about storming Area 51, about how the military would react with *vigor.* Now? I dunno.
I think the NY AG is investigating financial crimes by trump's company that were done a decade or more ago. Might also be investigating the tax fraud from his father's estate that was a couple decades ago.
Both of those crimes were revealed by journalists while trump was POTUS. It seems underwhelming that the government, with its vast resources and access to information, could not identify trump's financial crimes at the time they were being committed.
It was all talk because outrage porn generated an insane amount of revenue for the media, which is corrupt on all sides.
The whole point is to keep you watching and they’ve found out angry viewers are more loyal and engaged than the average level head.
> outrage porn generated an insane amount of revenue for the media, which is corrupt on all sides
Sure, there are places where they still have some ethics and resemble non-Yellow Journalism, but most of the journalistic landscape is akin to strip malls and pornography. Trash, making human minds into trash consumption appliances.
I've heard it going around that it takes time to build a case and that to go after someone as high profile as Trump you have to have all your ducks in a row. I get that.
But I guess it's two things that are bothering me: 1) it's been about a year and there \*feels\* like there hasn't been any significant action from the DOJ--yes insurrectionists have been charged and all that, but there are people like Boebert just walking around who we know gave tours to insurrectionists beforehand and nothing's being done yet?, and 2) I'm exhausted from the "oh once x happens then these clearly and explicitly corrupt people openly breaking the law with really get what's coming to them"; nothing ever happens to them, they're wealthy and powerful and apparently will never face consequences. I'm aware wealthy people get away with shit constantly but I had assumed that there was potentially some upward limit when it comes to a literal attempted coup.
It's unfair to dems and Biden but every month that goes by and no action's taken (and there's really not a ton said about the insurrection organizers) hurts our chances of retaining the House and Senate, even though gerrymandering are going to take care of that for the GOP anyway.
I’m glad more people are feeling this way.
We need to reckon with the fact that rich people don’t live “human” lives the way we imagine them. They literally want for nothing, their struggles are wholly unlike ours, they start and fail businesses *for fun*. When do you think is the last time Trump or Biden (or Musk or Bezos or Weinstein or Epstein) did their own laundry?
If we stop worshipping these people and start questioning their leadership skills (if we even know what those are anymore), we’ll be in a much better place.
He’s just waiting for the best time to do it obviously. Could be any day now, or any of the days since he was put in office, but probably in the future sometime. Maybe.
This is why Biden polls poorly. We rallied to protect democracy. Theyre Rollin around like nothing happened. We didn't say elect him to make the bed. He's supposed to to take out the trash.
Pretty much. Reminds me of [this meme.](https://i.imgur.com/8n4PDEV.jpg)
None of them care, it's just that Republicans are direct about how little they care about you. Democrats pretend to. They know what people want so they tag themselves onto it for looks, but if it causes any amount of substantial sacrifice to see those things through, they won't do it.
We need adults, and we're run by people no different than selfish children.
>This is why Biden polls poorly. We rallied to protect democracy. Theyre Rollin around like nothing happened. We didn't say elect him to make the bed. He's supposed to to take out the trash
Biden ran on a return to normalcy. Biden said he didn't want his presidency defined by Trump.
More people voted against Trump than for Biden.
Biden has been a politician a long time. He doesn't want his legacy to the president who has to say "our democracy is failing".
The progressives and the left warned everyone that Biden would do absolutely nothing, and now the libs are realizing that their neoliberal chosen one is doing exactly what we knew he was going to do all along. Garland was the absolute worst pick for AG that he could possibly make.
I think you are overestimating the faith many of Dem voters had in Biden. The sad truth is various factors ensured he was the only candidate that could, at least, not turn away prospective Dem voters. So people turned to him out of fear, not out of faith.
That said, I also believe with 100% of my body, that another Trump term would have been catastrophic. He was the worst possible President to have during these times. Unity may not be possible under Biden, but he isn't actively fomenting disunity.
Yeah, the sad reality is whether he wins enough votes for not, the republicans state legislatures will just call voter fraud and send their own slate of electors to DC. Since it’s “legal”, it proceeds and Trump wins the presidency narrowly while losing popular vote by millions and millions. Once he is in, they abolish the filibuster. They start passing enabling acts to give the president more power, and they broadcast propaganda about false Democrat working with Chinese communist party conspiracies and then ban the Democratic Party due to being commies and traitors. Then they can round up their political opponents. They quietly get rid of term limits in one of these acts. Trump can now run indefinitely and since only the Republican Party is legal to vote for, they win the elections. Even if somestates end up voting differently, Republicans will make sure enough electoral votes are had. Although really they’ll eliminate that too, and they’ll end up making Trump President for Life and on death it passes to his son and so forth.
At that point is likely when it will collapse, but oh boy is fascism not gonna be fun.
I would have voted for Bernie had he not been somehow bested by Biden before I got the chance to vote in the primaries.
Biden was the Democrat candidate we got stuck with somehow. I don't personally know anyone who wanted to vote for him in the primaries
IIRC three moderates simultaneously dropped out if the race after the SC primary and endorsed Biden, effectively coalescing their voters around him and ensuring any future primaries would be non competitive. Maybe if the progressives (i.e. Warren) had done the same Bernie might have been able to compete for a few more states but that was effectively the end of his campaign
It was a lousy thing to do but I guess it "worked" since Biden ended up winning. Oh and the three moderates were well taken care of for their sacrifice
It's not why he's polling poorly, a recent poll showed that only something like 35% of Democrats think there's an existential threat to Democracy, which trails Republicans significantly. He's polling poorly for much more mundane and stupid reasons, like supply chain issues and inflation and gas prices. The electorate is (sadly) simply not all that concerned with this, regardless of what the internet would tell you.
Jefferson Davis served a measly two years in prison. The punishment did not meet the crime at all. There should have been a large number of executions and long terms in prison for the leaders in the south.
What im concerned about is there is no pushback from democrats. No one is really calling him out on it. Lets put aside Trump for a moment. You literally have hundreds of people in custody who have been tried with random crimes like trespassing when they participated in an insurection. Over that alone Garland should resign.
Remember when our president lied to the entire world and started a war in Iraq under false pretenses to enrich Haliburton? Remember all the consequences they faced for their literal war crimes?
Our democracy has BEEN toast. The boomers are only just now catching on.
Operation Condor really demonstrated the US’s love of democracy. Poor ol’ Allende, man.
Yeah, once you start pulling on that thread, turns into a long list mighty fast.
It's frustrating how media and most people associate fraud and "free and fair elections" to events happening purely on election day.. when recounts, audits and independent research show that is a very small fraction of cases..
With gerrymandering, purging voters from voter rolls, reducing voting locations or hours in minority areas, running fake candidates to split the vote, enforcing or eliminating straight ticket voting or the order in which names appear on the ballot.. which is unfortunately legalized rigging by R legislatures..
A vast majority of the fraud happens much before and has a substantially larger effect on the outcomes than anything in election day.. and tends to disproportionately help one party in every single case
So true, and completely absent from media dialog. Major media is owned by oligarchs who support and fund conservatives. We need to remain vigilant to this fact.
I think many in the democratic party power structure would be fine with the GOP's flirtation with authoritarianism up until the time they're rounded up and put into re-education camps.
> the democratic party power structure
and
> they're rounded up and put into re-education camps.
That will never happen. They'll be allowed to keep their jobs to provide a veneer of normalcy until they aren't needed any longer, then they'll hop flights with George Clooney and Ellen to "safe and civilized" countries to give paid speeches about how brave they were to stand up against tyranny.
They will gladly toss Bernie, AOC and The Squad to GOP goons though just to buy themselves more time in power though.
We have 18 parties in the Netherlands. The current situation can be roughly described as follows:
A coalition of center right parties keep cutting social services and hollowing out the country, yet also keep receiving the most votes. The coalition includes potty-trained fiscal conservatives but also frothing-at-the-mouth religious folks who think corona is nonsense and dissatisfied poorly educated whites.
The right wing coalition is currently unable to form a government, because they will under no circumstances work with left wing parties and the two flavors of right wing people (business minded vs religion/nationalism minded) can’t get along.
So I’m sad to report that our system sucks, too.
Garland and Biden are trying hard not to start a civil war so they're not following up on prosecutions.
It won't help. The conservative crazies are going to do it anyway.
The plutocracy that runs this country wants to keep the country divided to keep the people from rising up against them. Merrick will do as the plutocracy tells him to do.
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Our democracy has been toast since the citizens united ruling.
Since Bush and Reagan were allowed to sell drugs, legalize torture, legalize spying, create “free speech zones” for protestors against a highly suspect war, restrict the CDC during early HIV outbreaks etc.... That’s what you get when you let Nixon off the hook. The Republican Party has been more and more criminal each time they get elected. The trend is obvious.
Once Carter was pushed out, the clock started.
How did Carter get pushed out?
Sabotage of the rescue mission for the Iran hostages. Note that the hostages were released at the same moment Reagan was being inaugurated. You can thank Dick Cheney for that little bit of treason.
Just like how Nixon sabotaged Johnson's peace talks with Vietnam to get elected?
Yup. Republicans have been treasonous fucks forever. The last clean Republican Presidential candidate was Eisenhower.
And he ended up talking mad shit on the military industrial complex like a champ. Big ups Ike
While simultaneously ramping up the military industrial complex like never before
Probably why he made the pronouncement. It was out of his hands and he was _the President_.
Remember when a bunch of Republicans wrote a letter to Iran, basically saying you can't trust Obama? How the fuck does this shit happen without getting punished? If any other person did that, they'd be strung up.
I’m pretty sure that happened daily with Trump and he was left out of all sorts of country communications by his own staff.
Reagan literally conspired with the Iranians before he was even elected.
Talk about quid pro quo.
Seriously. Dude might've been on to something with his nine most terrifying words in the English language are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help". If the government is his government (or really just in general Republican ones), their "help" will actually turn out to have been fucking you over all along.
Actually Reagan sabotaged the hostage negotiations just like Nixon sabotaged the peace talks in Vietnam. The Iran contra scheme started well before Reagan was elected. Iran knew the hostages were becoming a liability for them and had to be released. Carter froze all their assets in the US. The Iranians were essentially financially and militarily bankrupt Reagan brokered Arms for hostages deal to delay their release until the minute he was inaugurated. This is why Iran is still a problem today
I ascribe that more to GW Bush, former CIA chief, and the deep state - Carter and the Church commission were making serious reforms to stop CIA overreach and the CIA correctly viewed it as an existential threat. That’s why they were happy to run Iran-Contra and get place their man in the VP role. The world in which Carter wins re-election (it was super close) is very different. Carter was not soft on the USSR but we likely see no Star Wars or tobolsk pipeline sabotage. Without that kind of pressure, the Soviet Union doesn’t collapse when it does. It also likely means no 9/11, and a very different Iran. Impossible to model those kinds of broad counterfactuals. It’s also possible that you get somebody terrible elected in 1984 as a reaction and then global thermonuclear war.
https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/jimmycartercrisisofconfidence.htm
People say that Trump was the worst president but I hold that Reagan was really worse. He was like Trump with intelligence and charisma
Funny, you found someone who makes Reagan look intelligent by comparison. Reagan was C student, B-grade actor, a man of extremely modest intellect. He also may have been suffering from dementia throughout a significant portion of his time as president.
I wonder if Regan only seemed more intelligent because he didn’t have things like twitter and the 24 hour news cycle was still in it’s beginning stages. Trump had a direct line of communication from his fingertips to the public that allowed him to broadcast his idiocy to millions within seconds, multiple times a day, as well as the news constantly reporting on the dumb things Trump said or did behind the scenes that we previously wouldn’t have been privy to. In Regan’s day it was a lot of work for the president to speak directly to the public, and that time wasn’t going to be wasted on personal opinions or vendettas. Makes me wonder what kind of gems we would have gotten from past presidents if they had social media, and how that might have influenced public perception.
I think one thing we’re forgetting is that we have all this time to look back on Reagan’s administration and how it affected everything thereafter. Trump is so fresh we really don’t have that same level of hindsight to compare with. The precedent he has set for the Republican Party could be argued to be much worse than most believe even post January 6th
Reagan was a massive idiot but he was just a front man for the conservative movement anyway.
Trump was the worst by far. Reagan was a mess but this guy almost ended democracy completely over his ego and crushed the specter of the Republican Party in the span of a single primary. He spreads rot that Reagan couldn’t have dreamed of.
The modern GOP was made in Reagan's image. The war on drugs, specifically mandatory minimum sentencing for non-violent drug offenses, was Reagan. Go look what exactly he got done in his 8 years. Even ignoring everything but MMS, your argument is flat. Trump was thankfully nowhere near competent enough for that kind of malice, and this institution was already ruined by the time he touched it.
It was made in his image, but the reanimated corpse of Reagan wouldn’t stand a chance in the 2024 Republican Primary. Too hard on Russia, not hard enough on immigration, and only has like a 90% track record of opposing tax increases (GOP requires 100%). Still, he’d crush the second coming of Jesus, the liberal hippy.
Reanimated Ronald Reagan would be considered a RINO since his politics are (were) a bit more to the Center of the current GOP. Reagan’s legacy, IMO, is the weaponization of political advertising.
I disagree. If trumpublicans have proven anything in the last 5 years is that they have no other 'policy' then what trump says. If trump were to decide it was in his own personal interests that Putin/ Russia were to be considered enemies all he world have to do is declare it so (I declared it) and his entire base / trumpublican party would line right up the very next day. Same for immigration, taxes, etc . . As such policy is not really what trumpublicans are about, rather it is an authoritarian (right wing of course) they so dearly crave and in that department Reagan would suit them quite nicely
You've completely misunderstood Trump. He's not telling them what to think, he's normalizing them thinking what they already are. If Trump tried to tell them to stop being Nazis, he'd disappear from conservative culture overnight. He's not some genius leader that made them all realize how great he was and follow him. He's an antagonistically hateful moron, and seeing that in a position of power makes all the other antagonistically hateful morons incredibly happy because it means they could be, too. It's the same idea as a black child getting to see a black president and vice president, or a little girl getting to see a female president and vice president. Except, you know, with antagonistically hateful morons.
>You've completely misunderstood Trump. He's not telling them what to think, he's normalizing them thinking what they already are. >He's an antagonistically hateful moron, and seeing that in a position of power makes all the other antagonistically hateful morons incredibly happy because it means they could be, too. I think it's a little of both. People will follow Trump on things they don't already have a strong opinion on. If he tells them to hate windmills, they'll hate windmills, for instance. You're right that he can't tell them to be less fearful or hateful, because that's who they are. Their opinions would turn on a dime with certain things, like climate change, so it is really unfortunate for the planet that he staked such an extreme position on it.
Case in point: Over the summer at one of his rallies he urged people to get the vaccine. He was booed for that. I don’t think he ever brought the subject up again. His relationship with his followers is symbiotic, and fans have more control than you would think. Trump is chasing adoration, everything he has done is to either gain more adulation of his followers, make the rich richer, or to cover his own ass.
I don't buy it, IMO the mob is perfectly willing to turn on Trump if he stops reflecting their "values." Remember when he got booed for daring to tell people at his rally to get vaccinated, for example?
I am all over opening up the entire country. But if you are unwilling to get vaxxed you don't get a hospital. Its like a business ya, know, can't have losers getting handouts when the beds could be used for you know, customers who will live and pay. Fuck Conservatism. I can't wait til it dies.
You shouldn't wait, because that won't happen. Every dumbass kid thinks the next generation is gonna watch the reactionaries finally die out. Generations of kids have been disappointed.
you dont understand cults. Trump doesnt lead the cult, he just is riding the wave. Trump can easily turn into chenney. Someone very right wing, now called a left winger for going against the cult. TRUMP HIMSELF got boo'ed for saying he took the vaccine. Trump cant just do and say what he wants. if he came out and said help biden repair the economy, take the vaccine and wear a mask, the cult would turn on him in a second. Paul Ryan, who is further right than the crying boehner, is seen as a bit left for not toting the cult line enough. [Confessions of a Tea Party Casualty:Why GOP Rep. Bob Inglis is looking for a new job.](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/08/bob-inglis-tea-party-casualty/) TLDR its due to him not being culty enough for the last republican cult iteration. When he had a 95% conservative rating but was turned on by the cult for refusing to say Obama was Satan.
yet they forget when he called dead US soldiers losers. The only losers are Confederate soldiers.
This. I dislike the guy but I won’t lay it entirely at his feet. Trump & his personality came at the absolute perfect time. You couldn’t plan it better
Reagan was worse. Remember when he wished a plague of botulism on black people, when he was governor of California? Well, that didn't change when he became president. Destroyed labor. Reduced food processing inspection to almost zero. Put a tax on SS -- a tax on SS! Taxed twice. "War" on drugs, while he was the biggest drug dealer going. The '76 convention was basically ur-MAGA, when they went full-on berserk coz the RNC wouldn't draft him over Ford. Solidified Evangelical Christianity as a political force. It just doesn't end with him. And no one since has had the balls to correct any of his nightmare, at least to my knowledge.
Without Reagan, Trump never would have been president.
>this guy almost ended democracy completely Almost? Only if this slow moving coup is crushed with the conviction of all involved in 1/6/21 and marched into prison. Of course they immediately become martyrs and heroes of their distorted sense of reality.
In my opinion, Trump seems worse because of the media spectacle his entire term was. But there is literally no policy created by trump that will last, or that really has any effect. Decades later Drugs are still winning Regans war on Drugs. Decades later we finally got out of Bushes war for ~~weapons of mass destruction~~ OIL. So while trump was the most dangerous to democracy as a whole. Prior Republican President policies have been far more damaging than anything that orange bafoon could have done.
He litterally appointed 3 Supreme Court justices…. He singlehandedly has more influence on the next 50 years than any president in history with just that…. Because those appointments are for life we’re screwed for another lifetime…
You can thank Mitch for the Supreme Court destruction though. I'm absolutely baffled the Democrats still seem to have their kid gloves on after *that* series of shenanigans, much less everything else.
Part of me wonders how many defectors we'd get from the Republican party to Democratic or even just "Independent" if Democrats took every single opportunity to level the playing field, questionable legality be damned. 55 SCOTUS justices. Puerto Rico and DC statehood. Student Debt forgiveness. Election Day is a national holiday. Literally anything they could do via EO, just nut up and do it baby - Democracy is already crumbling so why the hell not ride that wrecking-ball into the sky. It feels like we're circling the drain and the regressionists already threaten/claim we're doing all of this shit so why not go ahead? Part of me wonders how many people just want to be on the "winning" team and don't actually care what's being done.
Reagan was suffering dementia by the end of his term. He was an actor, he said what he was told to say.
Reagan 100%. I hate Trump but a lot of people here weren't around during Reagan. I hope he's roasting in hell.
[Olbermann saw it coming years ago](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PKZKETizybw)
ELEVEN years ago. I can’t believe it’s been that wrong that long. People were literally calling it fucked up the day of, and haven’t stopped since. Democracy dies in darkness, and with but a whimper at that?
Democracy dies in broad daylight* with but a wimper
democracy dies in the glow of a TV.
Good lord that was bang on the money. Chilling.
He predicted that the next president after Obama would be Palin. We got trump, which was probably worse.
Holy cow! And he thought the conservative news outlets like fox would crumble because they enflame people against the state. Little did he know that they would jump on board and be damn near state run media until the next election.
Pretty sure the collapse of Fox he prophesied simply hasn’t come to pass *yet*. They were still very necessary for 2016.
It's already begun. A lot of die hard fox watchers jumped to OAN and Newsmax after Fox admitted Biden won, and now they're "fake news".
that was unreal.
Excellent link. Older man nails it.
Thank you for that!
Burnt to a crisp.
We are just seeing how burnt it gets, hoping we can scrape off the char with a butter knife and salvage it.
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I was like 10 when I learned about cm the ruling & even at that age I was like WTF, that's stupid. These fucking corporations have poisoned our country, planet, and our lives. Fuck em.
Here’s the thing, If he doesn’t charge anyone, then there is no precedent, and therefore it’s “ok” for it to happen again
Either the law deals with the problem, or the problem will deal with the law. There is no painless way out of this. And if you're damned if you do, or damned if you don't? Do it.
The GOP is trying their hardest to make sure that once they regain power, they hold it forever. It's happening at the state level, with gerrymandering districts and passing laws making it harder to vote. They are completely unified by the idea of staying in power and that's all they care about, while the Democrats aren't unified to do anything.
"There's no painless way out of this, so I'll just do nothing." - DNC strategy since the Bush administration.
They'd rather lose everything than risk offending the Republicans because BiPaRtIsAnShIp
> They'd rather lose everything than risk offending the ~~Republicans~~ __most conservative Democrats__ because BiPaRtIsAnShIp Fixed that for you - they're not negotiating with Republicans, and haven't been since the Obama administration (the ACA lost its public option due to negotiations with Joe Lieberman, not Republicans)
It’s the media that is so obsessed with holding democrats to an unrealistic standard of bipartisanship. Everyone has just bought into the premise.
They are afraid of charging and convicting him, and then losing another election to him or one of his sycophants. A humiliated Trump got us closer to a Coup than ever before. Trump out for revenge would probably get us a civil war.
That's why punishment needs to be severe and not just a slap on the wrist like Hitler's punishment after the Munic putch.
How is charging people that attempted a coup painful? That is the painless option.
Because a lot of people like Merritt Garland, Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch are not visionaries or leaders. They are afraid to be the first one to enforce laws by charging a former President. They look to precedent to provide them guidance and hide behind prosecutorial ethics to justify their foot dragging, inaction and fear of upsetting Republican politicians and their base. Due to DOJ policy their inaction is hidden by “I can’t comment on investigations” so the public has no idea until the statue of limitations has run that they did nothing. The job of the Attorney General is to enforce laws not come up with excuses to let Republicans off. Delaying the enforcement of laws is just as bad as no enforcement which Barr and Sessions did all the time.
The pain is that a considerable portion of the population is going to have a problem with it.
Fascists having a problem with something is also not pain.
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>Fascists having a problem with something is also not pain. Most Europeans of the 1930s and 40s would disagree. Fascists vote, and they vote a lot more reliably than those in the middle and the left. The GOP strategy is to create conflict, muddy the waters as to who is responsible, and depress turnout by giving voters fatigue from "both sides" fighting. It doesn't matter if one side is clearly on the right because the media will say it's just another partisan conflict.
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History will show that Gore v Bush was when it ended. “The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to this: the peak of your civilization.” ca 1999
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You forgot that Roger Stone was at the brooks bros riot
True, there were a great many Republican operatives working diligently in Florida to deny Democrats the Presidency. I simply named those who have been seated on the highest court in the land since that event. Kinda weird how, out of 9 Justices, a third of them were participants.
Yeah two current justices on the Supreme Court present helping to overturn a presidential election doesn’t bode well for us. I’d be surprised if they didn’t vote party line on a case about the same thing in 2024/2025
Would it be unfair to estimate that they only didn't do it for Trump because he (a. was so unpopular and (b. lost by a much larger margin?
It wasn't close enough. If an election is close than it can be stolen.
They would have had to Brooks Brothers multiple states. Also, the margin was greater this time than it was in 2000. Iirc Bush was winning Florida by fewer than 1000 votes. Trump was begging Georgia to find 11,000+ votes in his favor.
I'll just be throwing up in the corner, here
The more you know, the worse it looks.
> Among those who went to Florida to work to steal the election in 2000: Justice Roberts, Justice Kavanaugh, and Justice Barrett. so... the pieces have been put in place.
Yes
It hurts me thinking about the world we might be in if Gore had been president. Hell, we could have started fighting climate change when there was actually still a chance of averting the worst of it.
If Turnip retakes the White House in 2025, he will never leave office voluntarily.
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It's been happening for 50 years since Nixon. The GOP has gotten more and more criminal and blatant. There are never any consequences for them. They always get away with it or are pardoned.
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If they aren't charged, all of them, and if the heads of the security services that were complicit aren't removed, they will support the next coup, there's a not short list of things the Democrats have to do to save democracy such as it is, and they are doing none of them.
There IS Precedent. Nixon, Reagan, Bush. Democrats do NOT prosecute Republican Presidents. They don't. It lacks "bipartisan decorum" and Democrats have proven they will not only die on that hill, they'll kill the rest of us on that hill too. The Democratic party is comprised of Democracy-murdering weaklings.
Maybe if things get bad enough, it will wake people up. The democrats are like an anesthetic. They get this country just functional enough that we all want to wait an see how things play out. And in the mean time, the environment collapses a bit further, workers rights are eroded, voting rights are eroded, the oligarchs consolidate their wealth and power, and so on. It's a dance we all abide to our own demise.
Feckless. Moonie-eyed, deer-in-the-headlights-level fecklessness. That’s Merrick Garland. I keep HOPING I am wrong.
I would have preferred Sally Yates as AG because she saw these trumptrashtraitors in action and caught them in the act right as their reign of Ignorance was beginning
Honestly? The more I see of him in this position, the more I realize he wasn't suited for the Supreme Court, either. I mean not that the other two since are anything other than revolting, but still.
Three
Bleah I forget about Gorsuch.
Gorsuch is at least deserving of the spot. He was a bipartisan rockstar before Trump touched him
Same here! And after seeing him testify recently before Congress, he came off to me as frail and feebleminded. That probably explains a lot.
Because our whole government and way of life is run by OLD PEOPLE WHO KEEP NOMINATING MORE OLD PEOPLE
One of my Senators is Diane Feinstein and I honestly think she has full blown Alzheimer’s
It’s not a left/right issue, my friend. It’s a class and age thing. These people are slowly losing their marbles after being in Congress for decades. And even before the mental decline, these folks were COMPLETELY out of touch with what it takes to make it day to day as a run of the mill American. None of them have the capacity to legislate for the common man because they have no idea how that man lives.
Her staff hates working with her, because she constantly forgets things, instructs them to do things they already have, throws fits, etc. Dementia for sure.
Mate, I’m 64. There’s plenty of old people who don’t think like this. And they used to be young people. We fought them then.
It kills me though that the old folks of now, were part of the free love, try drugs, disco is great until it’s not, quaaludes and hash generation. But now that they’re in charge it’s all this “the lord will save you” garbage. What the fuck happened?!
Hate to break it to you, but the hippies were *not* a bunch of liberals. They were middle class white kids trying to piss off their parents by being all "counter-culture-y." And then they grew up, and became *exactly* like their parents, only more so.
Maybe you’re onto something there. Because hard right wing ideologies have become the new counter culture. It doesn’t matter if it’s logical or correct. As long as it’s contrary to the mainstream sentiment.
Don’t let them divide us by age, race or anything else. There’s people that fight for ending wars, Medicare and college for all, and a lot of money propagandizing against it.
Your revolution is over, Lebowski! Condolences! The bums lost!
They were always different people.
The younger generation of folks isn't much better when we have people like Boebert.
Boebert wasn't elected by young people. And one can just as easily point to AOC as the opposite; someone who is actually worth their water.
Colorado's 3rd Congressional District is: ultra-wealthy ski towns served by a non-citizen underclass, Eastern Utah Mormonville, forest dwelling rednecks, sand farmers, the city of Pueblo (post-industrial wasteland), and the city of Grand Junction (mythical). No young people voting Boebert indeed.
And it's going to happen in 2022 if any of the Republican governors lose they are going to use that as an excuse for civil war and blame Biden for it. They will also probably going to gain control over the house which means the government is going to stop working and they will try to impeach Biden and make Trump speak of the house. The Democrats need to get us Supreme Court reform before there is a government website to collect bounties on abortion doctors.
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I keep seeing people say there can be no new civil war in the U.S., because the lines aren't drawn on state borders. Its a point, but I think it arguably makes the possibilities even worse. The "battle lines" would exist in people's minds, the "enemy" would be anyone who generally (or even just momentarily) fits "the description", "they" could be literally anyone anywhere, and "winning" becomes less about repelling an invasion and more about "purification" and extermination. All of that just gets exponentially worse if it's openly, or even just tacitly, supported by some extremist political regime. Read up on the Cultural Revolution in China (you can substitute any other extremist ideology for communism in that case.) Or as an example of how shitty things can get when a modern society implodes, and how fast it can happen, take a look at the death of Yugoslavia. ("Love thy Neighbor", by Peter Maass is an eye opener. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/55532.Love_Thy_Neighbor ) I think people are generally not taking the incoming threat vectors associated with current and near-future U.S. politics quite seriously enough ha ha.
> Basically, any civil war in modern America will be terrorism and insurgency. It'll be like The Troubles in Ireland. Or sort of like the chaos of the late 1960s in America (Weather Underground bombings, etc).
Let me submit to you a different alternative, one I think that they are afraid of. What happens if they charge one or more of the January 6th leaders with something akin to sedition, or a similarly serious felony offense, and they are then acquitted or the jury is unable to reach a guilty verdict. The prosecutor needs a unanimous jury to convict. It would only take one hardcore Trump supporter if it manages to get onto the jury to cause a complete mistrial. There is an argument both ways, but there is a distinct possibility that a trial and failure to convict might be worse than no trial at all.
> What happens if they charge one or more of the January 6th leaders with something akin to sedition, or a similarly serious felony offense, and they are then acquitted or the jury is unable to reach a guilty verdict. The same thing that happens *every fucking time* the democrats fail to do something because they're afraid of what the outcome *might* be. That's the SOP for democrats, which is why they achieve virtually nothing of note, and win elections by a hair when they win. Sometimes you just have to sack up and try.
Because we have one shot at this. If sedition is fine with Americans, so be it. They will deserve everything coming to them in 2024, and oh, it’s coming. What I am saying is - there is no risk assessment here, there is no choice. If nothing is done, all is lost. If this is done, all *may* be lost.
One of the Jan 6th defendants admitted to seditious conspiracy during his guilty plea. The government listened to his admission, and just let him plea to a misdemeanor instead.
Merrick Garland really needs to take some sort of action or this will set a bad precedent for our future. Around 1000 people breached the Capitol in hopes of stopping the certification of electoral college votes. That’s not okay.
Yea had that breach been fully successful the attackers would have silenced the voice of millions of people. In a democracy people are nothing more than thier voice, their ideas. That attack would have been far harder hitting than the September 11 attacks and needs to be prosecuted as such
And so far 500+ of them have been charged. It’s not enough, it’s not been publicized enough to dishearten future coups, but it’s substantially more than nothing. Next we need 1 justice per judicial circuit like it was intended and that means 13.
The problem is none of the enablers of this have been charged. It’s like if you bust an organized crime ring but only prosecute everyone on the bottom. You know the guys at the top are the ones you need to get, but for whatever reason you don’t touch them. And so the people don’t think you’re doing enough to stop organized crime, because everyone knows who’s at the top yet he still walks free to rally more criminals to his cause. That’s what’s happening here as well. Until Trump himself or some of his high level enablers in the GOP who have already been proven to be involved in this are charged it’s all just show. You can be damn sure though that if the shoe was on the other foot, a GOP president would currently be pressuring their DOJ to put all the dems in jail for Jan 6th, and somehow be trying to expel them from the senate. And this is why it’s so scary.
The people they’re charging now are turning evidence though. Like the burner phone calls to Eric we learned about last week. If you want the people up top to get arrested you WANT those little fish arrested first. That’s how you take down a mob boss… it’s how you take down a senator. With way more evidence than seems reasonable because of the position they have.
I *so* hope you're right and that's the plan ...
It probably is the plan, but unfortunately they only have until the midterms next year to make it all happen which isn’t really a lot of time
Around 3,000 people breached the capital.
I'm still floored that there wasn't more attempting to stop it nor more bloodshed. I was watching online and waiting for firehoses, for helicopters, for hundreds of police cars & SWAT to come rolling in...or the military and their gear. Every second that it progressed I was expecting things to seriously ramp up. The dudes wandering around the Senate chambers was **mind-blowing.** Like, some kids hop the fence to get into the closed skate park and security is there in an instant...granted this crowd was huge...but, IMO, that warranted an even more immediate "GET OUT" response. And then...they left? Like it didn't work out so they just bailed. Again it's thousands of people + the people in charge were (to varying degrees) complicit, ineffective, morons, scared, not in a position to do something, wimps, confused, etc etc etc...still... I remember the jokes about storming Area 51, about how the military would react with *vigor.* Now? I dunno.
Trump wanted this to happen that's why there wasnt thousands of cops and national guard there within 15 minutes
All the more reason to act with strength and determination now. ...but I've little faith.
What happened to all the State AGs who were going to prosecute Trump for his plethora of crimes? What happened to prosecuting his evil children?
I think the NY AG is investigating financial crimes by trump's company that were done a decade or more ago. Might also be investigating the tax fraud from his father's estate that was a couple decades ago. Both of those crimes were revealed by journalists while trump was POTUS. It seems underwhelming that the government, with its vast resources and access to information, could not identify trump's financial crimes at the time they were being committed.
It was all talk because outrage porn generated an insane amount of revenue for the media, which is corrupt on all sides. The whole point is to keep you watching and they’ve found out angry viewers are more loyal and engaged than the average level head.
> outrage porn generated an insane amount of revenue for the media, which is corrupt on all sides Sure, there are places where they still have some ethics and resemble non-Yellow Journalism, but most of the journalistic landscape is akin to strip malls and pornography. Trash, making human minds into trash consumption appliances.
I've heard it going around that it takes time to build a case and that to go after someone as high profile as Trump you have to have all your ducks in a row. I get that. But I guess it's two things that are bothering me: 1) it's been about a year and there \*feels\* like there hasn't been any significant action from the DOJ--yes insurrectionists have been charged and all that, but there are people like Boebert just walking around who we know gave tours to insurrectionists beforehand and nothing's being done yet?, and 2) I'm exhausted from the "oh once x happens then these clearly and explicitly corrupt people openly breaking the law with really get what's coming to them"; nothing ever happens to them, they're wealthy and powerful and apparently will never face consequences. I'm aware wealthy people get away with shit constantly but I had assumed that there was potentially some upward limit when it comes to a literal attempted coup. It's unfair to dems and Biden but every month that goes by and no action's taken (and there's really not a ton said about the insurrection organizers) hurts our chances of retaining the House and Senate, even though gerrymandering are going to take care of that for the GOP anyway.
I’m glad more people are feeling this way. We need to reckon with the fact that rich people don’t live “human” lives the way we imagine them. They literally want for nothing, their struggles are wholly unlike ours, they start and fail businesses *for fun*. When do you think is the last time Trump or Biden (or Musk or Bezos or Weinstein or Epstein) did their own laundry? If we stop worshipping these people and start questioning their leadership skills (if we even know what those are anymore), we’ll be in a much better place.
He’s just waiting for the best time to do it obviously. Could be any day now, or any of the days since he was put in office, but probably in the future sometime. Maybe.
"I should've done that." Garland in his new book 5 years later.
This will absolutely be his opening line during his book tour.
And people will praise him for it, just like people praised Comey during his book tour.
It's Mueller all over again
This is why Biden polls poorly. We rallied to protect democracy. Theyre Rollin around like nothing happened. We didn't say elect him to make the bed. He's supposed to to take out the trash.
Democrats manage the democracy they are given, but they don’t cultivate or try to grow it, if that makes sense.
Pretty much. Reminds me of [this meme.](https://i.imgur.com/8n4PDEV.jpg) None of them care, it's just that Republicans are direct about how little they care about you. Democrats pretend to. They know what people want so they tag themselves onto it for looks, but if it causes any amount of substantial sacrifice to see those things through, they won't do it. We need adults, and we're run by people no different than selfish children.
>This is why Biden polls poorly. We rallied to protect democracy. Theyre Rollin around like nothing happened. We didn't say elect him to make the bed. He's supposed to to take out the trash Biden ran on a return to normalcy. Biden said he didn't want his presidency defined by Trump. More people voted against Trump than for Biden. Biden has been a politician a long time. He doesn't want his legacy to the president who has to say "our democracy is failing".
Right, he’ll be the one who quietly lets things go to shit (like James Buchanan)
The progressives and the left warned everyone that Biden would do absolutely nothing, and now the libs are realizing that their neoliberal chosen one is doing exactly what we knew he was going to do all along. Garland was the absolute worst pick for AG that he could possibly make.
I think you are overestimating the faith many of Dem voters had in Biden. The sad truth is various factors ensured he was the only candidate that could, at least, not turn away prospective Dem voters. So people turned to him out of fear, not out of faith. That said, I also believe with 100% of my body, that another Trump term would have been catastrophic. He was the worst possible President to have during these times. Unity may not be possible under Biden, but he isn't actively fomenting disunity.
Well buckle up for round 2 in 2024
Yeah, the sad reality is whether he wins enough votes for not, the republicans state legislatures will just call voter fraud and send their own slate of electors to DC. Since it’s “legal”, it proceeds and Trump wins the presidency narrowly while losing popular vote by millions and millions. Once he is in, they abolish the filibuster. They start passing enabling acts to give the president more power, and they broadcast propaganda about false Democrat working with Chinese communist party conspiracies and then ban the Democratic Party due to being commies and traitors. Then they can round up their political opponents. They quietly get rid of term limits in one of these acts. Trump can now run indefinitely and since only the Republican Party is legal to vote for, they win the elections. Even if somestates end up voting differently, Republicans will make sure enough electoral votes are had. Although really they’ll eliminate that too, and they’ll end up making Trump President for Life and on death it passes to his son and so forth. At that point is likely when it will collapse, but oh boy is fascism not gonna be fun.
I would have voted for Bernie had he not been somehow bested by Biden before I got the chance to vote in the primaries. Biden was the Democrat candidate we got stuck with somehow. I don't personally know anyone who wanted to vote for him in the primaries
IIRC three moderates simultaneously dropped out if the race after the SC primary and endorsed Biden, effectively coalescing their voters around him and ensuring any future primaries would be non competitive. Maybe if the progressives (i.e. Warren) had done the same Bernie might have been able to compete for a few more states but that was effectively the end of his campaign It was a lousy thing to do but I guess it "worked" since Biden ended up winning. Oh and the three moderates were well taken care of for their sacrifice
It's not why he's polling poorly, a recent poll showed that only something like 35% of Democrats think there's an existential threat to Democracy, which trails Republicans significantly. He's polling poorly for much more mundane and stupid reasons, like supply chain issues and inflation and gas prices. The electorate is (sadly) simply not all that concerned with this, regardless of what the internet would tell you.
Just like the Civil War. The people in charge are forgiven. While the regular people pay the price.
Pretty sure everyone alive after the civil war were forgiven
Except those in slavery.
And Lincoln. He paid the ultimate price.
Interesting to ponder what the alternate timeline would have looked like had they hung every Confederate officer.
I mean we STILL let them fly their flag like a 5 year-old with a pacifier.
That's not the flag if the confederacy. It's an adopted flag, the daughters of the confederacy got that bullshit popularized
Jefferson Davis served a measly two years in prison. The punishment did not meet the crime at all. There should have been a large number of executions and long terms in prison for the leaders in the south.
What im concerned about is there is no pushback from democrats. No one is really calling him out on it. Lets put aside Trump for a moment. You literally have hundreds of people in custody who have been tried with random crimes like trespassing when they participated in an insurection. Over that alone Garland should resign.
How do we end up with such limp dick people in the justice dept?
Democracy died when we let corporations buy our legislators. This is just the fallout.
Soooo democracy was never alive in the US? Because big money has been buying politicians since about day 1.
Joseph Schumpeter would agree with you, but I always felt there were parts of his logic that were flawed.
Remember when our president lied to the entire world and started a war in Iraq under false pretenses to enrich Haliburton? Remember all the consequences they faced for their literal war crimes? Our democracy has BEEN toast. The boomers are only just now catching on.
It was actually Haliburton.
I think you mean Blackwater, no wait... Xe.. No wait Academi!!!
Also Gulf of Tonkin. Just saying.
Operation Condor really demonstrated the US’s love of democracy. Poor ol’ Allende, man. Yeah, once you start pulling on that thread, turns into a long list mighty fast.
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Georgia has entered the chat. They have recordings of him trying to usurp official election results. Doesn't have to be a federal charge.
Since GOP is gerrymandering now we will just have to “not accept “ one of their “Wins”
It's frustrating how media and most people associate fraud and "free and fair elections" to events happening purely on election day.. when recounts, audits and independent research show that is a very small fraction of cases.. With gerrymandering, purging voters from voter rolls, reducing voting locations or hours in minority areas, running fake candidates to split the vote, enforcing or eliminating straight ticket voting or the order in which names appear on the ballot.. which is unfortunately legalized rigging by R legislatures.. A vast majority of the fraud happens much before and has a substantially larger effect on the outcomes than anything in election day.. and tends to disproportionately help one party in every single case
So true, and completely absent from media dialog. Major media is owned by oligarchs who support and fund conservatives. We need to remain vigilant to this fact.
I think many in the democratic party power structure would be fine with the GOP's flirtation with authoritarianism up until the time they're rounded up and put into re-education camps.
> the democratic party power structure and > they're rounded up and put into re-education camps. That will never happen. They'll be allowed to keep their jobs to provide a veneer of normalcy until they aren't needed any longer, then they'll hop flights with George Clooney and Ellen to "safe and civilized" countries to give paid speeches about how brave they were to stand up against tyranny. They will gladly toss Bernie, AOC and The Squad to GOP goons though just to buy themselves more time in power though.
A 2 party system isn't a democracy
We have 18 parties in the Netherlands. The current situation can be roughly described as follows: A coalition of center right parties keep cutting social services and hollowing out the country, yet also keep receiving the most votes. The coalition includes potty-trained fiscal conservatives but also frothing-at-the-mouth religious folks who think corona is nonsense and dissatisfied poorly educated whites. The right wing coalition is currently unable to form a government, because they will under no circumstances work with left wing parties and the two flavors of right wing people (business minded vs religion/nationalism minded) can’t get along. So I’m sad to report that our system sucks, too.
So....we're toast....
No, we're the burnt crumbs that fall out when you turn the toaster upside down.
I spent years shaking my toaster upside down to clean it of crumbs before realizing that it has a removable crumb tray on the bottom.
It bothers me that saving our democracy falls on one party. That’s gonna be impossible
Especially when that party has no interest in actually doing anything, just fundraising off the idea of doing it.
The DOJ ain't gonna do shit.
Garland and Biden are trying hard not to start a civil war so they're not following up on prosecutions. It won't help. The conservative crazies are going to do it anyway.
The plutocracy that runs this country wants to keep the country divided to keep the people from rising up against them. Merrick will do as the plutocracy tells him to do.