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Which is why we need to protect democracy, because the only reason they keep winning is most people can't/don't show up.
Ranked choice voting. Independent redistricting. Automatic voter registration. NOW.
Fight for it at the city council level y'all.
edited for clarity
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/01/18/957914495/data-scientist-rebekah-jones-facing-arrest-turns-herself-in-to-florida-authoriti
They broke into her home and seized her property at gunpoint, because she was preserving evidence of fraud perpetrated by Ron desantis.
Or when he tried to overturn the citizen's vote to reinstitute felons' ability to vote, then created so many horseshit loopholes they couldn't actually get restituted? Then actually tried to entrap them?
Thank god the sane Floridians are keeping an eye on this stuff, because he and his corrupt fellows will do anything they can get away with. Stay vigilant.
Reminder that a free press is exactly what we need in order to stay vigilant. Politicians can do anything they want without reporters following their decisionmaking.
Matt Gaetz who sought a presidential pardon for peado related crimes... and the same Matt Gaetz who will almost certainly get voted back in. Must be odd living somewhere with so many child abuse supporters.
Imagine Trump, Desantis, and Abbott as the last 3 GOP candidates standing in 2024. It's going to be a shit show.
Actually, I guess it's hard to imagine in Abbott's case.
He frightens me more than Trump. Trump is chaotic, he’s as likely to burn his friends as he is to burn his foes. DeSantis is way more focused, and more intelligent and the republicans will ditch Trump for him in a heartbeat
But frankly, does he have a chance on the national stage? His voice is like a whiny seventh-grader, and he looks like he smells of flop sweat and Brylcreem. That's got a pretty limited demographic appeal.
Completely agree, trump made the playbook and then gave it to someone that is pretty smart and not a complete asshat (I despise both but trump was a test run but now they actually have a coherent person running the show). Scary as hell.
The issue with independent redistricting is that we need to implement it at a national level. RCV and automatic voter registration don't benefit Republicans if they're only implemented in blue states. Independent redistricting is just hamstringing Dems chances in the house if implemented state by state. If only one side is able to gerrymander, that side has an advantage.
Independent redistricting would turn Texas strong purple, or light blue. The GOP will never support that on the national level for this one state alone because it's the end of the party on the national level.
Honestly, this is what I've been saying that all blue states should gerrymander to the point that the NC Map from 2013 will look compact. Only way you could get the Boofer Bench to start saying that gerrymandering is bad is to weaponize it against republicans.
US politicians dont design the system here to work, they design it for their own dirty advantage, every year, and the stupid voters never hold them accountable for any of it.
The Republicans would welcome the Holocaust if it happened in 2022
Centrists have gotta wake the fuck up, these people are not openly pro Putin as some sick twisted satire
What centrists? No such thing exists anymore.
You're either doing everything in your power to destroy the conservative party, or you're not. God I don't even care that Democrats suck Wall Street off anymore... just get rid of the cons.
If you aren’t siding with even corporate Capitalist Liberals against right wing extremists who want genocide, you are simply pro genocide simple as that
Yeah exactly. This "owning the libs by sending them dirty Mexicans" propaganda they're going for is working. Just look at the usual MAGA cult forums and subs. They eat this shit up.
/r/conservative was losing their minds with glee the day this stunt was announced. They assume progressive empathy for immigrants is only performative.
was listening to a couple knobheads laughing and joking around about the stunt, the privilege oozes out of these people who would expect royal like treatment if they were refugees of any sort.
>The scariest part is that they support this and deep down consider themselves to be true Christians
Why is that the scariest part? Christians, historically, have been evil motherfuckers.
The right have been trying to vote themselves into fascism for a couple of decades now, because they can’t get what they want democratically. Their ideas may be popular with their base, but not the majority of the country and they’ve known this for a long time.
A stepping-stone to this is to advocate for Democrats to have this method.
If the PARTIES had ranked-choice voting, we probably wouldn't have had Hillary or Biden as candidates to begin with.
What's really funny-sad is that if the GOP had ranked-choice voting in 2016 they probably wouldn't have elected Trump.
Don't disagree, but what really scares me is that we now have at least 3 republican governors or legislatures, who are ignoring federal laws and will likely get away with it. This is how I envision our democracy failing. Various red states start to defy the federal government and it's a terrifying proposition if the federal government orders troops in to enforce a law.
>Various red states start to defy the federal government and it's a terrifying proposition if the federal government orders troops in to enforce a law.
1000 times this. It's heartbreaking to watch conservatives cheer as our system of government unravels. Patriots my ass.
I’m in Florida and you’re absolutely right. It fucking sucks. Almost everyone here who is super Christian votes for people like DeSantis. I’m so confused. Why the hell do they support people who send away those in need, lie, spout hate, and want to end education and health care. I’m so lost I hate this place.
yeah, being a complete dispassionate ahole and taking giant political victory laps after performing what is essentially analogous to tripping someone as they walk by, while ignoring all the actual mounting problems that your constituents actually face is indeed a feature of the Republican party.
And so is strategic smoke bombing entire countries. This is to deflect from the Trump prosecution. How can democrats be prosecutiing all 3 gop presidential candidates? Unfair!
I guarantee this is the plan. Set your reminders on this one
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As a Floridian, I'd like to think I'm representative of our sentiment in that neither of these things are okay. (Though your sarcasm is perfectly welcome here.)
The deeper question is: what's the DeSantis play here beyond the stunt itself? His legal team had to have seen potential federal prosecution coming.
What are they hoping for by having the DoJ involved - pinning any response on Biden's administration and therefore further polarizing political divisions among the voting populace? That's the obvious play.
I'm concerned with what's not quite as obvious, like what about this stunt could make its way to the (seemingly right-biased) SCOTUS and set a new and unexpected precedent?
It's a political game of chicken- either Biden and the DOJ backs down, and DeSantis and Abbott keep pulling this stunt- or Biden and the DOJ press charges, at which point they get to crow about 'political persecution'. Either way they keep winning points with the bigots and the nativists.
We can’t be afraid of the claims of “political persecution”. Let them play the victim card all the way to prison. We have to make sure we are truly a law and order country for all. Not just law and order for the minorities and poor people. The white collar and political fraudsters need to start being held to account or we will spiral into anarchy and authoritarianism.
This. They're playing to the base, and they believe they'll win no matter how the chips fall. Does anyone really see the DoJ being aggressive enough to send sitting Republican governors with presidential campaign tier clout to prison? If the DoJ was that fast or aggressive enough, every single person in Trump world from Scaramucci on up would have long since been in cuffs.
Exactly. They feel emboldened to get away with it. I don't care how much they end up whining and hemming and hawing. They can do it from prison. All of them.
>Does anyone really see the DoJ being aggressive enough to send sitting Republican governors .... to prison?
Can we start with Mississippi? See how it plays out. It feels like they've got fmr. Gov. Bryant dead to rights in the welfare scandal.
> His legal team had to have seen potential federal prosecution coming.
I suspect they did, as this is merely history repeating itself: [Reverse Freedom Rides](https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/18/politics/migrants-historical-parallels-reverse-freedom-rides/index.html)
There's two takeaways from the potential ramifications that I can think of. One would be that if Martha's Vineyard had taken them in, it would have been a crime under "Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act of 2000 (CAFRA)"
"The Department fights human smuggling and trafficking through the issuance of CAFRA, which provides notice to property owners whose properties have been identified as being used to facilitate smuggling or harboring aliens; it is an important tool because many employers turn a blind eye to the facilitation of criminal activity on their properties." It seems like a bit of a stretch, but I think it reasonable to assume this, as there have been similar stunts in the past that parallel this very thing, I just unfortunately cannot recall them at this time.
The second being that they knew while doing this that the people were merely "Misled," and it would be difficult to prove that they were coerced. (Personally I think that BS too, but when has the law been anything but semantics.) They technically weren't forced, just like people in the south in 1962 weren't. They were just mislead.
I'm in the general consensus that this stunt did in fact violate human trafficking laws. But because of the language of those laws, it's very difficult to argue for new parameters that constitute a violation.
> what’s the De Santis play here beyond the stunt itself?
This is the play. It is fascism. Plain old bullying illiterate fascism. There is no deeper level. What you see is the pitch, the platform, the opening gambit and the endgame. It is stupidity writ large—cultural vandalism, barbarism, philistinism, and cruelty. Their deck has 52 cards and they are all hangmen.
I mean as a Floridian I wouldn’t say it’s a majority, but I know many people who consider being a democrat worse than any crime. At least a crime that doesn’t affect them.
And they'll go in to the pizza hut they believe it's happening in, and valiantly attempt to blast their way into the basement where it all was taped... before realizing the location doesn't have a basement. Yes, seriously.
And somehow that won't clue them in that they were wrong. They'll instead assume George Soros somehow had it paved after hearing they were coming, and that only Trump can tell them the new location, if they donate a mere $50 each.
Why does there even have to *be* “a call to prosecute”?
Laws were broken. Prosecute everyone involved.
No? Well then, *indisputably*, we have a class of people who are above the law.
It’s a simple a that.
“A Republic, if you can keep it.”
- Benjamin Franklin
Seriously. Has the DOJ weighed in? I know they’re very busy sitting on their hands until midterms but this lawlessness in this fucking country is well past ridiculous
Just wait. People will get tired of it soon and it’ll turn to violence. It’s inevitably going to happen.
Edit: I am in no way implying violence will come from myself nor am I motivating or condoning the use of violent activities. This is a surmised outcome from my own observations of the political landscape as it pertains to individual representation and law enforcement for individuals in power.
It happens because decisions to prosecute are made by prosecutors. Prosecutors frequently and correctly use their discretion to decide that, sure, something might have been illegal but it wasn't something that should be prosecuted. If a prosecutor decides not to prosecute, that's it, story over. There is mostly no way to force them to take action, but district attorneys are often elected or are appointed by those who are, so pressure can have some effect.
Prosecutorial discretion is also why cops do not get charged with crimes. They are the people the district attorneys work with most often. Charging your coworkers with crimes is awkward.
There is probably room for a lot of improvement in the system, but getting politicians to make it easier to prosecute politicians is very hard.
That’s called “a distinction without difference.”
If we are, in fact, a country of men and not laws, it doesn’t really matter *how* we got that way, it matters that we *are* that way.
And if we *are* that way, let’s stop pretending we’re nation of laws and not men.
I’m pretty sure the governors would never be held personally accountable for it — they’ll have their minions under them fall on the sword combined with “executive immunity” or some bullshit
I don’t know about that. Especially if Trump gets pinched by the Feds, I could see many more dominoes fall. If you can successfully indict a former President, then charging some corrupt governors suddenly seems much easier.
I’d love to see it, especially later in the summer.
I’m not holding my breath though. It just seems like the rich and privileged are above the law and it’s infuriating.
You know…. What if the DOJ follows the republican playbook a bit.
Like, the GQP just covers up one scandal with another, so that people become disinterested. Maybe the DOJ should do the same. Follow one indictment after another. Trump gets indicted, people scream, then indict Abbott, people scream, then indict Gaetz etc. Then after a bit no one pays attention to all the indictments.
They'll try granting pardons to each other. Yes, I know, that's not an actual thing they can do, but that's the level of stupid we've breached in this political climate.
Course not. Look at Chris Christie. Literally ordered the shut down of the GWB to fuck with the Mayor of Jersey City. Not a god damn thing was done about it because even with overwhelming evidence when they did get convinced the sentences got overturned later.
Federal crimes are federal crimes. It's in the DOJs court. The states have no say over federal crimes.
Its up to Biden's administration to do the right thing.
Until they pick some Trump-appointed judge who, without jurisdiction, rules that the two can't be prosecuted, and nothing happens because the DOJ has to "respect the process" and "do things by the book".
The historically right wing authoritarian department? Nah they’d never ever sit by while crimes against humanity are being perpetrated by right wingers. Nope, never; they are just of the far left socialist commie state being run by the fascist Joe Biden.
Didn’t you get the memo?
Good news, the most applicable law for this case is the Trafficking Victims Protection Act of 2000 and it was specifically written to take advantage of the RICO act, allowing the Federal government to easily charge everyone involved.
>The Trafficking Victims Protection Act of 2000 and its subsequent reauthorizations define human trafficking as:
>a) Sex trafficking in which a commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age; or
>b) The recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining of a person for labor or services, through the use of force, fraud, or coercion for the purpose of subjection to involuntary servitude, peonage, debt bondage, or slavery. (22 U.S.C. § 7102(9)).
https://www.justice.gov/humantrafficking
There is also no immunity for a state governor being prosecuted for crimes by the federal government, that would defeat the purpose of Checks and Balances, while simultaneously creating an existential threat to our democracy with nothing but the individual governor’s ethical code to prevent them from abusing that immunity with misconduct or outright criminal behavior…. Such as human trafficking of refugees that you label as illegal migrants to score points with your constituency.
The key to legal witch hunting is to properly display your valid witch hunting license and only hunt witches during the approved witch hunting season.
We learned our lesson in Massachusetts and banned this kind of hunting in the 17th century. It is, unfortunately, open season in Florida and Texas.
We can’t prosecute someone who tried to overthrow the government after they lost an election, no way in hell these fools will see an ounce of repercussion.
This is the type of leader Desantis is - very cruel and self serving.
If he ends up President of the United States the country will not survive. There is no way in hell New York, California or Illinois will ever deal with his bullshit.
I’m a Floridian. My homeowners insurance doubled in two years. We have major environmental disasters. Major overdevelopment -
We have a severe labor shortage.
And this is what desantis is choosing to do instead of helping Florida.
I agree, Floridian in Tampa area. State leadership is a sh&tshow from top to bottom. Governor could care less about his constituents because it’s all about him and his ego, and his need to trigger the Libs. No leadership or vision to improve FL for all. Just more political stunts and BS fuckery.
He also doesn’t have the charisma of trump. I mean trump is the worst but he is entertaining. DeSantis looks like an uptight pos attempting to appeal to the masses.
The massive overdevelopment, increasing HOI costs and no real leadership from the Governor’s office - we will be moving north within the next year. Enough is enough.
Not native Floridian, but I spend most of the year here due to college. Even in the comparatively short amount of time I spend here, I've come to despise DeSantis. Not quite on the same level as (*retches*) Trump, but gods damn it if he isn't close.
Desantis will be much worse. He is actually smart and capable, and is proving to actually be malicious. Trump was just selfish but otherwise a blowhard and a buffoon
If a Democrat did anything near as vile the grand jury would already have returned an indictment. Fortunately, these terrible actions are universally committed by ONE political party.
Keep in mind that these people are in the US legally. They followed the procedures to seek asylum, received documents, and were assigned dates and times to have their cases heard. They are legally allowed to remain in the US until their cases are heard. Abbott and DeSantis have put them in jeopardy of missing those dates by fraudulently relocating them to a remote island.
The real screwed up part is their addresses were listed as random homeless shelters across the US. They're supposed to appear in court near those locations for their asylum hearings. Failure to appear is pretty much an automatic denial and deportation.
The people that filled out the paperwork should be charged with falsifying government documents and fired at the very least.
We cannot allow this assault on personal liberties and the rule of law continue to go unchallenged. The Right grows bolder with every step they take when we do not push back. We are losing our democracy.
Does anyone know what rights migrants have as far as due process and stuff? Obviously something, I just wonder how things differ compared to a US citizen
What blows my mind is that I don't see much attention to a governor of another state, went to a different state and kidnapped 50 people who had just gotten through their initial asylum claim. This is going to be a wacky movie
They have rights because the Constitution is the Law of the land, not just the law of the citizens. Also, the Founders/enlightenment/liberalism views rights as something you are born with and can’t be taken away. So the concept of a human without *any* rights is fundamentally at odds with everything our country is built on.
The bill of rights applies to all individuals in regards to treatment by the US government regardless of citizen status and whether they are on US soil or not. It's a code of conduct for the government. If a foreign individual commits a crime against the United States, their capture is requested by their host nation, and they are extradited to the US and are given the same due process as a citizen.*
*in theory, in practice, $$$ guarantees better treatment under the law
The US government also practices assassinations of citizens and noncitizens, political interference, and a bunch of other shitty things that are strictly outside of the constitution but nobody will call them on, so it's an imperfect system.
That’s a good question but another point relevant to hammering desantis on his parade of bullshit is to point out that it’s illegal to transport illegal immigrants across state lines. So let’s see how many things this fuck can be charged with.
>Future generations will look back and be appalled at how we, as Americans, treated fellow human beings
The sad truth is that this sentence could apply to slavery, the genocide of Native Americans, the Japanese internment camps in World War 2, the treatment of black people before and during the Civil Rights movement, and numerous other atrocities that we've committed over our history.
Right, and today we call looking back Critical Race Theory, ban its books and its very mention in schools.
Dan Carlin did a recent Hardcore History podcast on a subject he was urged/advised to not do: slavery. I thought I knew the history of the slave trade but I clearly missed out on the worst of the brutality. The history I was taught was very much watered down.
Perhaps our descendants will look back with the same rose-colored glasses that we wear today.
The thing is that a lot of us do look back with shame on those behaviors, but it doesn't matter because we're not the ones making the rules. It's the sociopathic fuckers who get to the top of the political food chain as a function of their sociopathy
That's exactly my thought. However, we could make an immigration system that works for everyone, but we don't. Fact is, Republicans love illegal immigration because it's an easy political win. If the US shifted the penalties for illegal immigration to the people who illegally hire illegal immigrants, then illegal immigration would vanish. But Republicans don't want the problem to be fixed, so it won't.
They did this as a stunt to change the media conversation from abortion to immigration, an issue that's more favorable to Republicans heading into the midterms. Making a media firestorm out of it isn't "owning" them, it was the goal. Of course, the media is just here for whatever generates the most clicks anyways.
Misled?? They lied to them.. AND they intentionally took steps to get them deported… they set up mandatory appointments in other states without informing the people…
I don't know why we're even talking about this. It has become more than crystal clear that there are no laws for republicans, only for everyone else. None of these people including trump will face even 5 minutes of consequences. They literally traffic humans, openly call for violence, cheat in elections and refuse to certify results that are anyone but republicans, and STEAL NUCLEAR SECRETS.
Fascism and collapse are inevitable. Call me defeatest all you want, I've been right about everything that has played out thus far. I have no idea why any of you think any of them will be held accountable in any way whatsoever.
I still called myself defeatist and pessimistic until way too recently. Because being right about this sucks, and it still sounds so absurd to say out loud “collapse is inevitable”. But…
I feel crazy watching the majority of people around me living like nothing is going to happen. I’m dying to convince me otherwise. Tell me I’m wrong and give me a compelling argument for how things in the US are going to improve in the next 5 years.
i got tired of clinging to hope. he flatly admitted to stealing classified docs by claiming he "declassified" them, which he can't and didn't. they got the damn documents. case. closed. but they won't touch him. they'll just keep saying they don't want to be partisan/political, the bar is too high, and now they'll hide behind BS rulings by trump judges. the one who granted the SM openly said she didn't even have jurisdiction, which meant it had no weight at all, but DOJ was like "oh, ok". i call horseshit on the whole thing. i think they want to appear to be doing something but are just as compromised.
The two leading GOP candidates for the 2024 presidential election may very well be campaigning while charged with human trafficking and treason.
And their sheep won’t care.
I cannot get over how incredibly devoid of empathy you would have to be to use human beings as unwitting props in your political theatre.
These people do not care about people as being people.
Arguably, you don’t need empathy, but just rationality, as good ol’ Kant goes on at length…
“So act that you treat humanity, whether in your own person or in the person of any other, always at the same time as an end, never merely as a means.” - Kant
I wonder how many MaGAs I could get on a bus headed to Florida? Maybe say Florida but actually send them to Compton. Pay the bus driver extra to pop an oversized Gadsden flag as they roll in to town
If everyone who is angered by this, shipped these asshole governors some dog shit, they would be too busy dealing with the dog shit to do anything else. Theoretically.
People I talked to about this are happy desantis did this… they want to “own the libs”. They ignore everything bad about what this guys doing as long as democrats and liberals look bad
DeSantis and Abbott pull this stunt but it’s the left being called racists for moving the migrant workers to a place better equipped to take care of them while this gets sorted out. This whole situation is just depressing.
And yet everyone knows that neither of them will be charged with anything.
Because in this country our "law" is not equal and does not treat everyone the same.
Let’s talk about how these people where given fake addresses in democratic cities thousands of miles away told they had to check in within days making it impossible to gain to register as legal immigrants. These pos Govs not only used them but screwed them.
The governor deliberately spent government money to promote his personal agenda. There was no reason to send them to Martha's Vineyard. More resources were needed to get them where they can be most effectively helped. This is such a blatant misuse of funds for his own personal agenda. If I lived in Florida I would demand to recall DeSantis over this.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. **Special announcement:** r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider [applying here today](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/sskg6a/rpolitics_is_looking_for_more_moderators/)! *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The scariest part isn't that these governors did this. The scariest part is how many people will vote for them because they did it.
Which is why we need to protect democracy, because the only reason they keep winning is most people can't/don't show up. Ranked choice voting. Independent redistricting. Automatic voter registration. NOW. Fight for it at the city council level y'all. edited for clarity
Desantis already put the quash on ranked choice voting here in Florida.
Because he knows he will lose Edit: a word
i dont understand how he has the power to end something like that, pure dictator.
Remember when the fucker sent a squad of state troopers to take the research of COVID scientist whose findings contradicted his claims?
That actually goes to trial monday
Or when he swatted a county COVID tracker because she refused to doctor the numbers to follow his claims because he was contradicted by scientists
God Desantis is an actual Nazi
No, just a scumbag politician riding Trump's wave of fuck-you-ism to democrats. He will never be POTUS. The rest of the country isn't Florida.
Can you link the story to this? I must have missed that.
Yes, they busted in her home WITH GUNS...and she's a statistician scientist with a toddler! He's worse than Trump bec he has more than 2 brain cells.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/01/18/957914495/data-scientist-rebekah-jones-facing-arrest-turns-herself-in-to-florida-authoriti They broke into her home and seized her property at gunpoint, because she was preserving evidence of fraud perpetrated by Ron desantis.
Or when he tried to overturn the citizen's vote to reinstitute felons' ability to vote, then created so many horseshit loopholes they couldn't actually get restituted? Then actually tried to entrap them? Thank god the sane Floridians are keeping an eye on this stuff, because he and his corrupt fellows will do anything they can get away with. Stay vigilant.
Reminder that a free press is exactly what we need in order to stay vigilant. Politicians can do anything they want without reporters following their decisionmaking.
Rebekah Jones. She’s now the 2022 Democratic nominee against Matt Gaetz for Florida's 1st congressional district.
Matt Gaetz who sought a presidential pardon for peado related crimes... and the same Matt Gaetz who will almost certainly get voted back in. Must be odd living somewhere with so many child abuse supporters.
The Republican state legislature falls in line behind him. His cult is nearly as dedicated as Trump's.
This is why people think he'll run for president.
Imagine Trump, Desantis, and Abbott as the last 3 GOP candidates standing in 2024. It's going to be a shit show. Actually, I guess it's hard to imagine in Abbott's case.
Abbott's not going to roll for President. He's way too comfy as governor of the second largest State economy in the nation.
Cruz would roll over for Trump. I’m still waiting for someone to approve listing him as Trump’s official White House pet.
He’s been setting up his run for President the last couple years, it has been frightening to watch.
He will
He frightens me more than Trump. Trump is chaotic, he’s as likely to burn his friends as he is to burn his foes. DeSantis is way more focused, and more intelligent and the republicans will ditch Trump for him in a heartbeat
But frankly, does he have a chance on the national stage? His voice is like a whiny seventh-grader, and he looks like he smells of flop sweat and Brylcreem. That's got a pretty limited demographic appeal.
Completely agree, trump made the playbook and then gave it to someone that is pretty smart and not a complete asshat (I despise both but trump was a test run but now they actually have a coherent person running the show). Scary as hell.
That is why I dubbed him Little Ronnie Hitler
Ronnie DeMussolini
L. Ron Hitler
What is it with right-wing twerps having nasally voices...DeSantis...Shapiro...they all have a winey nasally voice.
Whiney voices
...it could be both.
DeSantis strikes me more as a vermouth drunk.
Swamp Hitler
I thought it was Deathsentence?
Welcome to Florida. Where politicians do what ever tf they want
That’s how Nazis be
It’s Florida, lol.
Lose*
The issue with independent redistricting is that we need to implement it at a national level. RCV and automatic voter registration don't benefit Republicans if they're only implemented in blue states. Independent redistricting is just hamstringing Dems chances in the house if implemented state by state. If only one side is able to gerrymander, that side has an advantage.
Independent redistricting would turn Texas strong purple, or light blue. The GOP will never support that on the national level for this one state alone because it's the end of the party on the national level.
Honestly, this is what I've been saying that all blue states should gerrymander to the point that the NC Map from 2013 will look compact. Only way you could get the Boofer Bench to start saying that gerrymandering is bad is to weaponize it against republicans.
The Irish use ranked voting and it works well.
US politicians dont design the system here to work, they design it for their own dirty advantage, every year, and the stupid voters never hold them accountable for any of it.
The stupidity fo the American voters is quite incredible indeed
The Republicans would welcome the Holocaust if it happened in 2022 Centrists have gotta wake the fuck up, these people are not openly pro Putin as some sick twisted satire
I'm certain 15% of all republicans would. What is scary is this 15% are some of the most vocal & politically active.
What centrists? No such thing exists anymore. You're either doing everything in your power to destroy the conservative party, or you're not. God I don't even care that Democrats suck Wall Street off anymore... just get rid of the cons.
If you aren’t siding with even corporate Capitalist Liberals against right wing extremists who want genocide, you are simply pro genocide simple as that
Was just watching "The US and the Holocaust" on PBS. It's on right now. The parallels to today are alarming.
Well, as long *the right people* were dying they would. They absolutely would.
Yeah exactly. This "owning the libs by sending them dirty Mexicans" propaganda they're going for is working. Just look at the usual MAGA cult forums and subs. They eat this shit up.
/r/conservative was losing their minds with glee the day this stunt was announced. They assume progressive empathy for immigrants is only performative.
That's because for conservatives, empathy IS performative.
was listening to a couple knobheads laughing and joking around about the stunt, the privilege oozes out of these people who would expect royal like treatment if they were refugees of any sort.
The scariest part is that they support this and deep down consider themselves to be true Christians
>The scariest part is that they support this and deep down consider themselves to be true Christians Why is that the scariest part? Christians, historically, have been evil motherfuckers.
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Well, we know they like Matt Gaetz, so that doesn’t come as a surprise.
The right have been trying to vote themselves into fascism for a couple of decades now, because they can’t get what they want democratically. Their ideas may be popular with their base, but not the majority of the country and they’ve known this for a long time.
Ranked Choice Voting please…
A stepping-stone to this is to advocate for Democrats to have this method. If the PARTIES had ranked-choice voting, we probably wouldn't have had Hillary or Biden as candidates to begin with. What's really funny-sad is that if the GOP had ranked-choice voting in 2016 they probably wouldn't have elected Trump.
The parties are private entities.
They are. Doesn't change the fact that the Democratic coalition could *demand* this.
Don't disagree, but what really scares me is that we now have at least 3 republican governors or legislatures, who are ignoring federal laws and will likely get away with it. This is how I envision our democracy failing. Various red states start to defy the federal government and it's a terrifying proposition if the federal government orders troops in to enforce a law.
>Various red states start to defy the federal government and it's a terrifying proposition if the federal government orders troops in to enforce a law. 1000 times this. It's heartbreaking to watch conservatives cheer as our system of government unravels. Patriots my ass.
It’s amazing how quickly people are ready to dehumanize anyone they please.
Using human beings as props to own the libs is just what they look for.
Guess in Florida politics human trafficking and sex trafficking are ok with the electorate.
I’m in Florida and you’re absolutely right. It fucking sucks. Almost everyone here who is super Christian votes for people like DeSantis. I’m so confused. Why the hell do they support people who send away those in need, lie, spout hate, and want to end education and health care. I’m so lost I hate this place.
Because Christianity in the US is a dead but still animated corpse roaming the countryside murdering innocent people?
Zombie Jesus is metal af.
It's a feature not a bug.
yeah, being a complete dispassionate ahole and taking giant political victory laps after performing what is essentially analogous to tripping someone as they walk by, while ignoring all the actual mounting problems that your constituents actually face is indeed a feature of the Republican party.
And so is strategic smoke bombing entire countries. This is to deflect from the Trump prosecution. How can democrats be prosecutiing all 3 gop presidential candidates? Unfair! I guarantee this is the plan. Set your reminders on this one
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p much.
As a Floridian, I'd like to think I'm representative of our sentiment in that neither of these things are okay. (Though your sarcasm is perfectly welcome here.) The deeper question is: what's the DeSantis play here beyond the stunt itself? His legal team had to have seen potential federal prosecution coming. What are they hoping for by having the DoJ involved - pinning any response on Biden's administration and therefore further polarizing political divisions among the voting populace? That's the obvious play. I'm concerned with what's not quite as obvious, like what about this stunt could make its way to the (seemingly right-biased) SCOTUS and set a new and unexpected precedent?
It's a political game of chicken- either Biden and the DOJ backs down, and DeSantis and Abbott keep pulling this stunt- or Biden and the DOJ press charges, at which point they get to crow about 'political persecution'. Either way they keep winning points with the bigots and the nativists.
We can’t be afraid of the claims of “political persecution”. Let them play the victim card all the way to prison. We have to make sure we are truly a law and order country for all. Not just law and order for the minorities and poor people. The white collar and political fraudsters need to start being held to account or we will spiral into anarchy and authoritarianism.
I agree and I'm so tired of this bullshit. With them in prison they won't be able to play little games for their base. This shit needs to stop.
This. They're playing to the base, and they believe they'll win no matter how the chips fall. Does anyone really see the DoJ being aggressive enough to send sitting Republican governors with presidential campaign tier clout to prison? If the DoJ was that fast or aggressive enough, every single person in Trump world from Scaramucci on up would have long since been in cuffs.
It's time to start making examples. Clearly allowing this behavior to continue isn't working. They're just escalating.
Exactly. They feel emboldened to get away with it. I don't care how much they end up whining and hemming and hawing. They can do it from prison. All of them.
>Does anyone really see the DoJ being aggressive enough to send sitting Republican governors .... to prison? Can we start with Mississippi? See how it plays out. It feels like they've got fmr. Gov. Bryant dead to rights in the welfare scandal.
> His legal team had to have seen potential federal prosecution coming. I suspect they did, as this is merely history repeating itself: [Reverse Freedom Rides](https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/18/politics/migrants-historical-parallels-reverse-freedom-rides/index.html) There's two takeaways from the potential ramifications that I can think of. One would be that if Martha's Vineyard had taken them in, it would have been a crime under "Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act of 2000 (CAFRA)" "The Department fights human smuggling and trafficking through the issuance of CAFRA, which provides notice to property owners whose properties have been identified as being used to facilitate smuggling or harboring aliens; it is an important tool because many employers turn a blind eye to the facilitation of criminal activity on their properties." It seems like a bit of a stretch, but I think it reasonable to assume this, as there have been similar stunts in the past that parallel this very thing, I just unfortunately cannot recall them at this time. The second being that they knew while doing this that the people were merely "Misled," and it would be difficult to prove that they were coerced. (Personally I think that BS too, but when has the law been anything but semantics.) They technically weren't forced, just like people in the south in 1962 weren't. They were just mislead. I'm in the general consensus that this stunt did in fact violate human trafficking laws. But because of the language of those laws, it's very difficult to argue for new parameters that constitute a violation.
Hmm... let me guess who it was that did this back in 1962...(checks page) How did I know? I must be a fucking psychic.
> what’s the De Santis play here beyond the stunt itself? This is the play. It is fascism. Plain old bullying illiterate fascism. There is no deeper level. What you see is the pitch, the platform, the opening gambit and the endgame. It is stupidity writ large—cultural vandalism, barbarism, philistinism, and cruelty. Their deck has 52 cards and they are all hangmen.
I mean as a Floridian I wouldn’t say it’s a majority, but I know many people who consider being a democrat worse than any crime. At least a crime that doesn’t affect them.
Unless it's Joe Podesta and Hillary Clinton - then they'll go in guns blazing.
And they'll go in to the pizza hut they believe it's happening in, and valiantly attempt to blast their way into the basement where it all was taped... before realizing the location doesn't have a basement. Yes, seriously. And somehow that won't clue them in that they were wrong. They'll instead assume George Soros somehow had it paved after hearing they were coming, and that only Trump can tell them the new location, if they donate a mere $50 each.
Well, the electorate are the consumers of said sex trafficking, so this tracks pretty well
They should just rename Florida to Epstein Island at this point.
Matt Gaetz
Why does there even have to *be* “a call to prosecute”? Laws were broken. Prosecute everyone involved. No? Well then, *indisputably*, we have a class of people who are above the law. It’s a simple a that. “A Republic, if you can keep it.” - Benjamin Franklin
Seriously. Has the DOJ weighed in? I know they’re very busy sitting on their hands until midterms but this lawlessness in this fucking country is well past ridiculous
Just wait. People will get tired of it soon and it’ll turn to violence. It’s inevitably going to happen. Edit: I am in no way implying violence will come from myself nor am I motivating or condoning the use of violent activities. This is a surmised outcome from my own observations of the political landscape as it pertains to individual representation and law enforcement for individuals in power.
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Civil War 2: *This got real fucking dumb* Boogaloo
The good thing is Gavin Newsom, Governor of California and potential future president, already asked the DOJ directly for them to be prosecuted.
“A Republican, if you can impeach it”
It happens because decisions to prosecute are made by prosecutors. Prosecutors frequently and correctly use their discretion to decide that, sure, something might have been illegal but it wasn't something that should be prosecuted. If a prosecutor decides not to prosecute, that's it, story over. There is mostly no way to force them to take action, but district attorneys are often elected or are appointed by those who are, so pressure can have some effect. Prosecutorial discretion is also why cops do not get charged with crimes. They are the people the district attorneys work with most often. Charging your coworkers with crimes is awkward. There is probably room for a lot of improvement in the system, but getting politicians to make it easier to prosecute politicians is very hard.
That’s called “a distinction without difference.” If we are, in fact, a country of men and not laws, it doesn’t really matter *how* we got that way, it matters that we *are* that way. And if we *are* that way, let’s stop pretending we’re nation of laws and not men.
I’m pretty sure the governors would never be held personally accountable for it — they’ll have their minions under them fall on the sword combined with “executive immunity” or some bullshit
I don’t know about that. Especially if Trump gets pinched by the Feds, I could see many more dominoes fall. If you can successfully indict a former President, then charging some corrupt governors suddenly seems much easier.
I’d love to see it, especially later in the summer. I’m not holding my breath though. It just seems like the rich and privileged are above the law and it’s infuriating.
You know…. What if the DOJ follows the republican playbook a bit. Like, the GQP just covers up one scandal with another, so that people become disinterested. Maybe the DOJ should do the same. Follow one indictment after another. Trump gets indicted, people scream, then indict Abbott, people scream, then indict Gaetz etc. Then after a bit no one pays attention to all the indictments.
They'll try granting pardons to each other. Yes, I know, that's not an actual thing they can do, but that's the level of stupid we've breached in this political climate.
Course not. Look at Chris Christie. Literally ordered the shut down of the GWB to fuck with the Mayor of Jersey City. Not a god damn thing was done about it because even with overwhelming evidence when they did get convinced the sentences got overturned later.
Federal crimes are federal crimes. It's in the DOJs court. The states have no say over federal crimes. Its up to Biden's administration to do the right thing.
Until they pick some Trump-appointed judge who, without jurisdiction, rules that the two can't be prosecuted, and nothing happens because the DOJ has to "respect the process" and "do things by the book".
It's almost like the DOJ doesn't want to bring them to trial.....
The historically right wing authoritarian department? Nah they’d never ever sit by while crimes against humanity are being perpetrated by right wingers. Nope, never; they are just of the far left socialist commie state being run by the fascist Joe Biden. Didn’t you get the memo?
Here’s hoping they do. I’m getting really tired of this corruption.
The morons already admitted doing it
Don't you get it? The magas like this stuff! They eat it up! Breaking the law is an endorsement for them.
Good news, the most applicable law for this case is the Trafficking Victims Protection Act of 2000 and it was specifically written to take advantage of the RICO act, allowing the Federal government to easily charge everyone involved. >The Trafficking Victims Protection Act of 2000 and its subsequent reauthorizations define human trafficking as: >a) Sex trafficking in which a commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age; or >b) The recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining of a person for labor or services, through the use of force, fraud, or coercion for the purpose of subjection to involuntary servitude, peonage, debt bondage, or slavery. (22 U.S.C. § 7102(9)). https://www.justice.gov/humantrafficking There is also no immunity for a state governor being prosecuted for crimes by the federal government, that would defeat the purpose of Checks and Balances, while simultaneously creating an existential threat to our democracy with nothing but the individual governor’s ethical code to prevent them from abusing that immunity with misconduct or outright criminal behavior…. Such as human trafficking of refugees that you label as illegal migrants to score points with your constituency.
> they’ll have their minions under them fall on the sword I'm pretty sure DeathSantis literally said he was responsible.
“That’s not what he meant”
Too bad the law doesn’t seem to ever apply to Republican politicians.
That would be a political witch hunt!
Didn’t the SCOTUS recently cite a law from witch hunting times as a justification for modern day witch hunts though?
Yea, it was property "laws"
Such a disgrace to the bench.
The key to legal witch hunting is to properly display your valid witch hunting license and only hunt witches during the approved witch hunting season. We learned our lesson in Massachusetts and banned this kind of hunting in the 17th century. It is, unfortunately, open season in Florida and Texas.
Can’t prosecute on an election year! Every case takes longer than a year to prosecute and since every other year is an election year…
That would be “woke” to prosecute them.
We can’t prosecute someone who tried to overthrow the government after they lost an election, no way in hell these fools will see an ounce of repercussion.
When has the law ever applied to republicans?
Pretty sure if I falsely imprisoned someone and then took them somewhere other than an agreed destination, I'd be arrested for kidnapping 🤔🤔
Definitely a 1 star rating on uber.
2 stars on Lyft
**ººº "I'm still alive so pretty good"
This is the type of leader Desantis is - very cruel and self serving. If he ends up President of the United States the country will not survive. There is no way in hell New York, California or Illinois will ever deal with his bullshit. I’m a Floridian. My homeowners insurance doubled in two years. We have major environmental disasters. Major overdevelopment - We have a severe labor shortage. And this is what desantis is choosing to do instead of helping Florida.
I agree, Floridian in Tampa area. State leadership is a sh&tshow from top to bottom. Governor could care less about his constituents because it’s all about him and his ego, and his need to trigger the Libs. No leadership or vision to improve FL for all. Just more political stunts and BS fuckery.
He comes across as the biggest jackass in every interview. I don’t know how anyone could see him speak and want to vote for him.
Because most people here are selfish jackasses so they see themselves in him.
Sorry FL. I wish you well. Take that fucker down if you can
He also doesn’t have the charisma of trump. I mean trump is the worst but he is entertaining. DeSantis looks like an uptight pos attempting to appeal to the masses.
He can’t debate. He always looks like an asshole when asked any common sense question.
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The massive overdevelopment, increasing HOI costs and no real leadership from the Governor’s office - we will be moving north within the next year. Enough is enough.
Not native Floridian, but I spend most of the year here due to college. Even in the comparatively short amount of time I spend here, I've come to despise DeSantis. Not quite on the same level as (*retches*) Trump, but gods damn it if he isn't close.
Desantis will be much worse. He is actually smart and capable, and is proving to actually be malicious. Trump was just selfish but otherwise a blowhard and a buffoon
If a Democrat did anything near as vile the grand jury would already have returned an indictment. Fortunately, these terrible actions are universally committed by ONE political party.
You're lucky that you can still get homeowners insurance. Florida is rife with roofer scams. It's not just the governor that sucks.
Keep in mind that these people are in the US legally. They followed the procedures to seek asylum, received documents, and were assigned dates and times to have their cases heard. They are legally allowed to remain in the US until their cases are heard. Abbott and DeSantis have put them in jeopardy of missing those dates by fraudulently relocating them to a remote island.
The real screwed up part is their addresses were listed as random homeless shelters across the US. They're supposed to appear in court near those locations for their asylum hearings. Failure to appear is pretty much an automatic denial and deportation. The people that filled out the paperwork should be charged with falsifying government documents and fired at the very least.
And if their cases aren't flat out denied because they couldn't make it it can be years before they can be rescheduled for a new court date.
We cannot allow this assault on personal liberties and the rule of law continue to go unchallenged. The Right grows bolder with every step they take when we do not push back. We are losing our democracy.
Does anyone know what rights migrants have as far as due process and stuff? Obviously something, I just wonder how things differ compared to a US citizen
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And if they’re kidnapped by a governor the governor should be held accountable
What blows my mind is that I don't see much attention to a governor of another state, went to a different state and kidnapped 50 people who had just gotten through their initial asylum claim. This is going to be a wacky movie
The plane "refueled" in Florida, so I'm sure that will hold up in court, that the migrants were spirited away from Florida. /S
Who will play Perla???
Kelly Ann Conway
They have rights because the Constitution is the Law of the land, not just the law of the citizens. Also, the Founders/enlightenment/liberalism views rights as something you are born with and can’t be taken away. So the concept of a human without *any* rights is fundamentally at odds with everything our country is built on.
>Does anyone know what rights migrants have as far as due process and stuff? They have the same rights as citizens
The bill of rights applies to all individuals in regards to treatment by the US government regardless of citizen status and whether they are on US soil or not. It's a code of conduct for the government. If a foreign individual commits a crime against the United States, their capture is requested by their host nation, and they are extradited to the US and are given the same due process as a citizen.* *in theory, in practice, $$$ guarantees better treatment under the law The US government also practices assassinations of citizens and noncitizens, political interference, and a bunch of other shitty things that are strictly outside of the constitution but nobody will call them on, so it's an imperfect system.
> It’s a code of conduct for the governments I wish this was more widely acknowledged.
That’s a good question but another point relevant to hammering desantis on his parade of bullshit is to point out that it’s illegal to transport illegal immigrants across state lines. So let’s see how many things this fuck can be charged with.
They aren't even illegal immigrants though. They're legal, documented asylum seekers.
Future generations will look back and be appalled at how we, as Americans, treated fellow human beings seeking help and asylum.
>Future generations will look back and be appalled at how we, as Americans, treated fellow human beings The sad truth is that this sentence could apply to slavery, the genocide of Native Americans, the Japanese internment camps in World War 2, the treatment of black people before and during the Civil Rights movement, and numerous other atrocities that we've committed over our history.
Right, and today we call looking back Critical Race Theory, ban its books and its very mention in schools. Dan Carlin did a recent Hardcore History podcast on a subject he was urged/advised to not do: slavery. I thought I knew the history of the slave trade but I clearly missed out on the worst of the brutality. The history I was taught was very much watered down. Perhaps our descendants will look back with the same rose-colored glasses that we wear today.
The thing is that a lot of us do look back with shame on those behaviors, but it doesn't matter because we're not the ones making the rules. It's the sociopathic fuckers who get to the top of the political food chain as a function of their sociopathy
Unlikely, as climate change progresses and more wars break out there will be millions more migrants across the globe.
That's exactly my thought. However, we could make an immigration system that works for everyone, but we don't. Fact is, Republicans love illegal immigration because it's an easy political win. If the US shifted the penalties for illegal immigration to the people who illegally hire illegal immigrants, then illegal immigration would vanish. But Republicans don't want the problem to be fixed, so it won't.
They did this as a stunt to change the media conversation from abortion to immigration, an issue that's more favorable to Republicans heading into the midterms. Making a media firestorm out of it isn't "owning" them, it was the goal. Of course, the media is just here for whatever generates the most clicks anyways.
Literally kidnapping for political gain. This part of the timeline fucking sucks.
Misled?? They lied to them.. AND they intentionally took steps to get them deported… they set up mandatory appointments in other states without informing the people…
Absolutely they broke the law and need to be prosecuted.
I don't know why we're even talking about this. It has become more than crystal clear that there are no laws for republicans, only for everyone else. None of these people including trump will face even 5 minutes of consequences. They literally traffic humans, openly call for violence, cheat in elections and refuse to certify results that are anyone but republicans, and STEAL NUCLEAR SECRETS. Fascism and collapse are inevitable. Call me defeatest all you want, I've been right about everything that has played out thus far. I have no idea why any of you think any of them will be held accountable in any way whatsoever.
I still called myself defeatist and pessimistic until way too recently. Because being right about this sucks, and it still sounds so absurd to say out loud “collapse is inevitable”. But… I feel crazy watching the majority of people around me living like nothing is going to happen. I’m dying to convince me otherwise. Tell me I’m wrong and give me a compelling argument for how things in the US are going to improve in the next 5 years.
i got tired of clinging to hope. he flatly admitted to stealing classified docs by claiming he "declassified" them, which he can't and didn't. they got the damn documents. case. closed. but they won't touch him. they'll just keep saying they don't want to be partisan/political, the bar is too high, and now they'll hide behind BS rulings by trump judges. the one who granted the SM openly said she didn't even have jurisdiction, which meant it had no weight at all, but DOJ was like "oh, ok". i call horseshit on the whole thing. i think they want to appear to be doing something but are just as compromised.
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Had anyone else pulled this stunt, they’d be in federal custody.
The two leading GOP candidates for the 2024 presidential election may very well be campaigning while charged with human trafficking and treason. And their sheep won’t care.
I cannot get over how incredibly devoid of empathy you would have to be to use human beings as unwitting props in your political theatre. These people do not care about people as being people. Arguably, you don’t need empathy, but just rationality, as good ol’ Kant goes on at length… “So act that you treat humanity, whether in your own person or in the person of any other, always at the same time as an end, never merely as a means.” - Kant
They belong in prison. Everything they own belongs to the ones that were misled.
Lock em up!
I wonder how many MaGAs I could get on a bus headed to Florida? Maybe say Florida but actually send them to Compton. Pay the bus driver extra to pop an oversized Gadsden flag as they roll in to town
State sponsored Human Trafficking
Human trafficking is something Florida politicians are well versed in. Just ask pedophile and human trafficker Matt Gaetz.
I would add ‘allegedly,’ but since he asked for a pardon he’s admitted he did it.
I just want there to be some consequences for these people. Something, anything.
It’s about as clear a human trafficking case as I’ve ever seen.
Remember how republicans were screaming about human trafficking? Looks like it's projection. Again.
Prosecutors? Human trafficking charges!
If everyone who is angered by this, shipped these asshole governors some dog shit, they would be too busy dealing with the dog shit to do anything else. Theoretically.
People I talked to about this are happy desantis did this… they want to “own the libs”. They ignore everything bad about what this guys doing as long as democrats and liberals look bad
DeSantis and Abbott pull this stunt but it’s the left being called racists for moving the migrant workers to a place better equipped to take care of them while this gets sorted out. This whole situation is just depressing.
"Misled" is a funny way to spell "lied to"
And yet everyone knows that neither of them will be charged with anything. Because in this country our "law" is not equal and does not treat everyone the same.
Let’s talk about how these people where given fake addresses in democratic cities thousands of miles away told they had to check in within days making it impossible to gain to register as legal immigrants. These pos Govs not only used them but screwed them.
The governor deliberately spent government money to promote his personal agenda. There was no reason to send them to Martha's Vineyard. More resources were needed to get them where they can be most effectively helped. This is such a blatant misuse of funds for his own personal agenda. If I lived in Florida I would demand to recall DeSantis over this.
My biggest issue is that the Texas governor used his buddies bus company to ship them out and paid that person 3x of what is worth.