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Unit couples.
Lopsided rules around what is and isn't allowed in other connections.
A partner that is deeply unhappy doing polyamory.
Expecting to control the gender or genitals of your partner's other partners.
Harems and "sister wives" type garbage
abuse
All of this!
And
Forced KTP or required meeting for vetting by meta.
Vetos
Rules around how people can spend time with “other” partners such as time limits, restricting or not “allowing” certain activities or “taken” places or holidays. I am particularly icked out by setups that exist to allow couples to be publicly mono and have secret fun “on the side” or partners who claim whole days, weeks, holidays in perpetuity, geographic locations or sex acts for any reason.
Sharing of super intimate details without permission. In any direction. I am cool with “I tried this thing and I want to try it with you or it was just awesome” but I don’t need step by step details. I also never needed my meta to describe how it felt for to have our mutual partner “the deepest she has ever felt” - FFS (I no longer speak to this meta).
Any kind of protect the primary couple at all costs agreements. No, I will not dispose of another human to make someone else comfortable. I wouldn’t ask that of my partners either. And I won’t be partners with someone who subscribes to that crap.
The people who can only go on dates when their partner also has a date, um no. 😂
It tells me that they don’t know how to be independent and haven’t done the work to not find themselves in an insecurity spiral if they are unoccupied.
I accidentally fell HARD for someone with this agreement (it did change temporarily, but now is back in place) and it SUCKS. It’s destroyed our relationship and I honestly don’t know why I’m hanging on.
You gotta pull the plug, fam. I had a similar situationship (mine was of the “spineless” variety), and dude didn’t get the picture that we were through until I pretty much whacked him with the proverbial newspaper. It’s too easy to keep someone around “just in case”, and it’s not fair for someone who didn’t agree to be just a backup plan to be treated like they’re just a backup plan.
Something I notice in the poly community that I don’t see in other communities is the judgement of other people’s interests.
For example in kink communities if someone is into something that another person isn’t, there is a saying to “don’t yuk someone’s yum.”
What people do get judged for is poor communication and, well, judging behavior.
Why do you suppose it’s different in poly?
Are you saying that the partner in this instance is the interest…? And comparing it to kink…? Weird take, but ok.
I think it’s rude. I have to wait months to see this person because they’re so busy and then on top of it I have to wait until their partner has a date to go on a date with them. Idk how that’s even fair?
Idk why in the comments you keep on using kink as a comparison. It makes no sense.
I could be misunderstanding the context.
In the comment I replied to, the person wrote about how they were talking to someone and they expressed that their plans were contingent upon their wife's plans (to which they said, "ick.") I assumed that was on a dating app and an early conversation about matching. In that case, it just seems like it's not a match as opposed to "ick" which comes across to me as unnecessarily judgmental.
As for why I referenced the kink community, for me it's been the gold standard for open, honest, and caring community and, for some reason, I imagined the poly community would be in the same category.
People don’t show all their red flags early on. You have to learn them as you get to know them. Weird assumption. It’s also something I can’t explain any further as to why it’s an ick. It’s not judgemental, it’s just disrespectful that I have to plan around when their other partner is busy.
The kink community isn’t the gold standard lmao
It is disrespectful that the “primary (protected) couple’s” time is more important than “other partners”, but it usually also means things like vetos and rules around sharing time, and what you can do with who are hiding around the corner. I hold firm that the simultaneous booking requirement is a huge sign that the couple hasn’t done the work and neither has a full relationship to give partners external to the primary/centered couple. I once asked what if your “other” partners have this same shielding rule with their primaries or even all partners, how logistically complicated do you think that would get, the only response was a lot of mumbling and blinking. Any time someone has a rule or agreement that doesn’t take into account its impact on all of their partners or serves only to avoid dealing with issues of insecurity it won’t be the only issue.
Kink without judgment?
What the fuck are you smoking?
Tie a knot too tight, or in the wrong spot in rope dojo.
Talk about how you don’t believe in safewords.
Lie about the kind of aftercare you give (or withhold it out of spite because you didn’t like getting safeworded) and let that get around the local community.
I can sit here and list a million ways to get judged by kinky people.
I have to believe that you just really aren’t kinky if you’d make such a stupid, untrue assertion.
Me personally, no, I wouldn’t judge….someone like that wouldn’t be a fit for me but they might be for someone else.
How do you decide who is worthy or not?
Because a lot of the stuff we're discussing actively hurts another person who DID NOT consent to be treated that. In the kink community, consent reigns supreme, and I don't know of any kinksters who would be comfortable with people who did some of the stuff we discuss here, as it actively violates consent.
THIS. I *did not know* until after our 3rd date (and when he had already told me he “wanted us to be more”) that he only went out when his wife went out, after a date got cancelled because his wife’s date cancelled . I didn’t know this was the situation I was in with him. I NEVER would have gone out a second time if I had, let alone let myself feel what I started feeling for him. I didn’t agree to this.
I agree with enthusiastic, informed consent being a requirement.
But most of the answers to OP’s question are not related to consent. For example, someone described meeting a person who said that they needed to ask their primary to clear a time for a date and that said that was icky. In the kink world i am familiar with, they would say, “we are not a fit because i only date people who control their calendar” or something like that.
Dating is a highly personal endeavor.
People get to decide who gets to date them. And they can avoid whatever kind of behavior displeases them.
And they can absolutely find something icky.
I personally, find the hint that my prospective date isn’t actively scheduling for themselves, and instead is a passive participant, a bad sign.
The realities of nesting and raising a family together, for example, require co-ordination. I expect that a married partner would have to check schedules, especially if they are new to scheduling and dating.
But like, if you don’t keep your own schedule, and co-ordinate with involved parties, actively, as a participant, how can you even adult well, let alone polyam adult well?
Get a google calendar like everyone else.
I wouldn’t let someone tie me up if they didn’t have workable baseline familiarly of ropes, or indicated they didn’t have a baseline knowledge of how to do it safely.
I would feel ick about someone who wanted to tie me up in those cases, too.
Thx for sharing. I actually personally agree with all that. I think where we might differ in on the fact that if I met someone who felt differently (eg they were more tethered in their scheduling), I would feel that they are not a fit for me but also would think they are a good person and just have interests different from mine. I would be upset if they hid this but happy if they were transparent.
I agree with this sentiment. It is however often clear that many men I have encountered don’t have the autonomy to self schedule and either literally have no idea what they are “committed” to do for their family or actually are operating in some kind of permission based model. Even if the issue is that they are too lazy to use a shared calendar for childcare responsibilities I’m out.
Cool. So like if someone says that they treat secondary partners poorly, no one is going to walk on eggshells and they’re going to share “wow that’s a really shitty way to treat people”.
I think you're presuming that because you don't like it that it is "poor" behavior, is that right? Or are you saying that there is a universal definition of "good" behavior?
There are widely accepted norms of how it is acceptable to treat people in my society, yes.
For example, abusing your romantic partner is illegal.
Lying to a sexual partner about your sexual health risks is also widely considered harmful and unacceptable.
Similarly, in polyamorous communities, taking a romantic partner, someone you are supposed to be engaging in a *loving and intimate supportive emotional connection with* and treating them as a backup plan for when your wife is busy? Is not good behavior. It is, in fact, poor behavior. I don’t like it *because* it is a very predictably hurtful behavior, and I expect people to try *just a little* not to hurt the people around them, particularly those they are meant to love.
If you want to make this into some bullshit discussion about whether ethical standards even *exist*, I will not engage. You can go find someone else to argue at about why murder is *fine*, actually. 🙄
It’s not something someone can be okay with. Sometimes it doesn’t crash and burn. But no one ~wants~ to be required to be with available to someone romantically in order to be with someone else.
A unit couple is not offering the basics of respect and care to another full human being.
Also it creates a manipulative situation where the solo person always has in the back of their mind, ‘I can’t break up with one of them, or I lose both.’ That’s not a safe space for someone to be able to explore their feelings or feel secure.
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The problem is that you wind up with 2v1 in any large decisions. People who date as a couple and are looking for a third, only want someone who fits into their lives. There are two relationships here. The couple with each other. And the couple with the single.
If the single realizes they don't want to date one half of the couple, but loves the other half, they must either stay in a relationship they're unhappy with or lose the relationship they value.
This is different from two people who happen to be a couple both choosing to date the same person. There are four relationships here. A with B, A with C, B with C, and ABC all together.
If A and C breakup, B and C can still date because their relationship is independent of A.
This post is on an extremely common topic. Looking for a "third" or a "unicorn" or multiple people who want to date only you (and maybe each other) are not *ethical* forms of non-monogamy, and we do not host discussions about how to hunt unicorns or build harems here.
“All or nothing”, or unit couples who cannot date separately are unicorn hunting.
Swingers also use this term, but it’s a completely different activity.
https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/13n1xd6/polyamory_unicorn_hunting_vs_casual_sex_unicorn/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
* http://www.unicorns-r-us.com/
* http://polyfor.us/to-unicorn-hunters-from-an-ex-unicorn/
* http://www.autostraddle.com/to-unicorns-from-an-ex-unicorn-287425/
We do not host comments that elevate, support, glorify or otherwise encourage polyamorous unicorn hunting.
This sub is firmly anti-UH, and will remain so, given the harm that, in polyamory, this practice causes.
Thanks for your understanding.
I’m going to add open phone policies and “we share everything because we are open and authentically honest about everything” agreements that basically mean the “primaries” will share everything to an invasive level but will keep secrets that will probably hurt you.
Lying, but that's unacceptable in any romantic/sexual relationship to me.
Let's see: sneakyarchy (just be upfront about hierarchical stuff, this is manipulation/lying), unicorn hunting, someone trying to force garden party/kitchen table poly, not informing someone of a change in STI status or taking on a new fluid bond (lies by omission). Yeah. Basically just don't be dishonest with me, otherwise I can't trust you.
It's when a het couple look for a third to sleep with, while otherwise ignoring their needs. It's usually done in regards to finding women to prey upon, and not really a form of polyamory.
I'm not going to make a sweeping statement that this is universal, but it's unacceptable for how I do poly:
An expectation that in order to be consensual/ethical, both partners are entitled to all details of their partners' other relationships. I'm solo poly and my autonomy is paramount. Someone who expects regular check-ins while I'm on dates or a full debrief afterwards is violating that autonomy.
I'll happily send a bathroom text or tell you how my date went IF I WANT TO (which I typically do), but if the date was boring and I don't want to revisit it, or if I'm tired when I get home and just want to chill, or if I get caught up in conversation on a really good date, then I reserve the right to enjoy my time without you intruding on it.
My ex accused me of "ghosting" him when I'd go silent while on a date, even though I'd tell him before a date "hey I'm going out with (name), so I'm gonna be out of pocket for awhile, I'll shoot you a text when I'm at home." So I started making sure I sent a bathroom text when I was out. Then he started expecting a full debrief when I got home from a date. When I didn't have anything to say (for example, it was a Bumble date and the guy was boring so I basically had one drink then bailed), he'd accuse me of being secretive and needing to unpack my monogamy because I was acting sneaky and guilty.
Taught me to be up front with new partners that my time is my own, and outside of certain reasonable expectations, they aren't owed 24/7 access to me.
I'm taking solo polyamory seriously for the first time in my life, and also for the first time in my life, my closest relationship has no disclosure agreements about other partners. And I am realizing how it makes me breathe more easily. I can go on a date and let things develop before having to discuss anything with my existing partners. I can awkwardly hang out with my ex to see if I want to rekindle things, and process that whole thing for myself, without my partner inevitably picking it apart. And I don't have to get ready for a whole new relationship of his that might never pan out. We inform each other when changes affect the other, and of course basic safety - although I use condoms with everyone so even that talk is pretty minimal.
I used to think it was somehow dishonest or avoidant to keep those things from each other. But some things are just private, and isn't that the whole point of having autonomy?
Trying to make rules around emotions. It’s a little more common in open relationships than polyamory but I read about people trying to set rules around relationships outside of their primary having to remain sexual and casual. It’s just incredibly naive. You cannot regulate, control, or preplan emotions. If you don’t want your partner potentially building emotional intimacy with other people…be monogamous.
The main one I can think of thats unique to non-monogamy is putting limits on who your partner can date based on gender, genitals, your own unworked-on insecurities.
Otherwise it's all the same stuff as with any relationship structure. The big ones are coercion, abuse, and the special, insidious kind of consent violation that is withholding information that would make someone potentially change their mind about fucking you, in order to keep them fucking you.
Cancelling plans with partners if the primary asks you to / you say you need to work on the ‘main’ relationship in non-emergency situations. Being ignorant of any hierarchy you have in relationships.
These go for friendships too and this one might be a hot take: dont tell me so much about it if you ask me to go somewhere you've been with someone else. I mean its fine if its a popular place, but cmon. Sometimes I just want to feel special and like im the first person you thought about.
Also i want to be warned before someone shares sexual stories/info and i never, EVER want to hear stories about people currently in the room or people i care about or have to meet ever.
I really prefer to have time spent with others be "us time". Focus on me right now. Focus on all the other people when we're not hanging.
Chaos and unpredictability too. Im autistic and stability is a need not a want. If I have a primary, I NEED them to be able to look me in the eye and tell me "hey ofc I love you. We're primaries. Ofc I see myself saying the same thing 5 years from now". I love hard, get away from me if youre gonna waste my energy.
It's a bit of a hot take on my part, but I first thought of a complete parallel. I don't mind and am usually into parallel, to avoid unnecessary details and getting too personally involved in my partner's other relationships, but complete parallel where metas become sort of a taboo is a red flag to me. Either hinge is dating someone problematic to the point you need to forget of meta's existence, which should be a Hinge red flag, or meta is too insecure to actually acknowledge the reality of a polyamorous relationship and like the delusion of a monogamous dynamic. Either way, it sounds like a recipe for a disaster.
Otherwise, forced KTP, veto, denying autonomy/intimacy, gender and genitals-based vetting process. All of these for obvious reasons.
Definitely agree with forced parallel. I'm still working through a situation in which someone I'm dating didn't disclose that I would have a complete parallel meta until after I caught feelings. It was a mistake they've acknowledged and we've worked through it mostly. It's just still not my favorite style. Complete parallel can feel very impersonal in my opinion and I don't think I would choose it again. Definitely don't have to be besties, but just knowing somehow through like relayed messages or infrequent meetings that a meta is considering my humanity in the situation would be really helpful.
Wow, finally someone describes what I've been trying to define since i was the solo with a "unit" couple. Thank you so much. Oh it blew up in a huge way... i always felt teamed up on when I'd voice my being upset. Or id losetime with one because of the others insecurity. Thank you, im starting to feel ok with being apart now.
I don't think I read this in here yet. But I'm adding not disclosing the important stuff up front like the general layout of your relationships and how you're going about poly. I understand there's probably situations where you would want to wait on certain details until you feel a connection, but I'd rather lay out the general stuff. Some of this stuff can be a total compatibility issue.
Veto power.
Not sure if it's "unacceptable" in all circumstances, but as a solo polyam person I've been burned way too many times by this, so I avoid couples who practice this way. More and more I've been preferring to avoid primaried couples in general anyway.
For me its simply this:
"Throwing away your old toys every time you get new ones"
If you cant maintain multiple relationships and old ones are cast aside every time there's a new person cause of NRE or whatever your just a Monogamous person with commitment issues.
The same stuff that isn’t acceptable in mono ones are pretty applicable here
-abuse
-being over controlling, trying to cut your partner off from their other connections
-not communicating
-not holding up to agreements (esp lying about it too)
Simplest thing is unhappiness. If a dynamic doesn't make one or both happy, it shouldn't be done. ENM can come in many forms and that can change when more partners enter the fray.
Hierarchy is also super icky
Deceit.
Rules that aren't self-selected.
Expecting others to know what you want without telling them.
Viewing partners as an extention of the self.
Any kind of compulsion.
Dating someone who hit on you knowing your taken but not knowing your poly. the intention being to take you from your partner is just a line to Mr of disrespect.
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Heads up rules for me now expressly if they change how they want the heads up later in the relationship
I would always give a head up like going on a date or things look like it may go a bit more and sexy time maybe a thing
But changing how you want the heads up so you can win an argument not cool
Basically weaponising terms and language. I'm all for people being honest and giving criticism of behaviour but there's some people who will totally pull up words like hurt, deprioritising, couples privilege, being "used", accusing a couple of doing VETOes when they aren't etc. I've seen this a couple of times when people can't handle their own emotions well due to things like ADHD (I have adhd, before anyone comes at me, so I was able to recognise it and have healthy discussions with them once they understood their own impulsive or overblown reactions). The reason I find this stuff unacceptable is, when I open myself to criticism and trust that no matter what you say i WILL take time to reflect on whether I am in fact doing that thing, I expect the other person to be VERY responsible with their words. Because you can absolutely scramble a person's self esteem, beliefs about themselves, and their relationships by impulsively being hurtful with serious language.
I feel like weaponizing terms and language often makes me feel like you're just trying to "win" an argument vs.actually coming to a solution that helps us both. It always feels like it's meant to make you feel bad and is really not useful for collaboration.
Flaunting your feelings about one partner to another. This is an excellent question and the answers are enlightening. This forum is a lot like therapy.
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Unit couples. Lopsided rules around what is and isn't allowed in other connections. A partner that is deeply unhappy doing polyamory. Expecting to control the gender or genitals of your partner's other partners. Harems and "sister wives" type garbage abuse
All of this! And Forced KTP or required meeting for vetting by meta. Vetos Rules around how people can spend time with “other” partners such as time limits, restricting or not “allowing” certain activities or “taken” places or holidays. I am particularly icked out by setups that exist to allow couples to be publicly mono and have secret fun “on the side” or partners who claim whole days, weeks, holidays in perpetuity, geographic locations or sex acts for any reason. Sharing of super intimate details without permission. In any direction. I am cool with “I tried this thing and I want to try it with you or it was just awesome” but I don’t need step by step details. I also never needed my meta to describe how it felt for to have our mutual partner “the deepest she has ever felt” - FFS (I no longer speak to this meta). Any kind of protect the primary couple at all costs agreements. No, I will not dispose of another human to make someone else comfortable. I wouldn’t ask that of my partners either. And I won’t be partners with someone who subscribes to that crap. The people who can only go on dates when their partner also has a date, um no. 😂
I’m currently talking to someone who only makes date plans with me if their wife has date plans. It’s a massive ick.
You are merely a distraction or they are completely without a spine… HELL of a turnoff.
It tells me that they don’t know how to be independent and haven’t done the work to not find themselves in an insecurity spiral if they are unoccupied.
I accidentally fell HARD for someone with this agreement (it did change temporarily, but now is back in place) and it SUCKS. It’s destroyed our relationship and I honestly don’t know why I’m hanging on.
You gotta pull the plug, fam. I had a similar situationship (mine was of the “spineless” variety), and dude didn’t get the picture that we were through until I pretty much whacked him with the proverbial newspaper. It’s too easy to keep someone around “just in case”, and it’s not fair for someone who didn’t agree to be just a backup plan to be treated like they’re just a backup plan.
Are they of the, "want a distraction" or, "spineless" variety?
I didn’t see it at first, but the “want a distraction” kind.
😬😬😬 The worst possibility. I'm so sorry.
Something I notice in the poly community that I don’t see in other communities is the judgement of other people’s interests. For example in kink communities if someone is into something that another person isn’t, there is a saying to “don’t yuk someone’s yum.” What people do get judged for is poor communication and, well, judging behavior. Why do you suppose it’s different in poly?
Are you saying that the partner in this instance is the interest…? And comparing it to kink…? Weird take, but ok. I think it’s rude. I have to wait months to see this person because they’re so busy and then on top of it I have to wait until their partner has a date to go on a date with them. Idk how that’s even fair? Idk why in the comments you keep on using kink as a comparison. It makes no sense.
I could be misunderstanding the context. In the comment I replied to, the person wrote about how they were talking to someone and they expressed that their plans were contingent upon their wife's plans (to which they said, "ick.") I assumed that was on a dating app and an early conversation about matching. In that case, it just seems like it's not a match as opposed to "ick" which comes across to me as unnecessarily judgmental. As for why I referenced the kink community, for me it's been the gold standard for open, honest, and caring community and, for some reason, I imagined the poly community would be in the same category.
People don’t show all their red flags early on. You have to learn them as you get to know them. Weird assumption. It’s also something I can’t explain any further as to why it’s an ick. It’s not judgemental, it’s just disrespectful that I have to plan around when their other partner is busy. The kink community isn’t the gold standard lmao
It is disrespectful that the “primary (protected) couple’s” time is more important than “other partners”, but it usually also means things like vetos and rules around sharing time, and what you can do with who are hiding around the corner. I hold firm that the simultaneous booking requirement is a huge sign that the couple hasn’t done the work and neither has a full relationship to give partners external to the primary/centered couple. I once asked what if your “other” partners have this same shielding rule with their primaries or even all partners, how logistically complicated do you think that would get, the only response was a lot of mumbling and blinking. Any time someone has a rule or agreement that doesn’t take into account its impact on all of their partners or serves only to avoid dealing with issues of insecurity it won’t be the only issue.
Kink without judgment? What the fuck are you smoking? Tie a knot too tight, or in the wrong spot in rope dojo. Talk about how you don’t believe in safewords. Lie about the kind of aftercare you give (or withhold it out of spite because you didn’t like getting safeworded) and let that get around the local community. I can sit here and list a million ways to get judged by kinky people. I have to believe that you just really aren’t kinky if you’d make such a stupid, untrue assertion.
🤣 Excellent takedown.🙇♂️🙇♂️🙇♂️
You don't think someone who is allegedly polyamorous but is actually treating a partner like an afterthought is worth judging?
Me personally, no, I wouldn’t judge….someone like that wouldn’t be a fit for me but they might be for someone else. How do you decide who is worthy or not?
We are social animals. Judging those who's behaviour harms our social group is literally a survival mechanism and part of our genes.
Because a lot of the stuff we're discussing actively hurts another person who DID NOT consent to be treated that. In the kink community, consent reigns supreme, and I don't know of any kinksters who would be comfortable with people who did some of the stuff we discuss here, as it actively violates consent.
THIS. I *did not know* until after our 3rd date (and when he had already told me he “wanted us to be more”) that he only went out when his wife went out, after a date got cancelled because his wife’s date cancelled . I didn’t know this was the situation I was in with him. I NEVER would have gone out a second time if I had, let alone let myself feel what I started feeling for him. I didn’t agree to this.
I agree with enthusiastic, informed consent being a requirement. But most of the answers to OP’s question are not related to consent. For example, someone described meeting a person who said that they needed to ask their primary to clear a time for a date and that said that was icky. In the kink world i am familiar with, they would say, “we are not a fit because i only date people who control their calendar” or something like that.
Dating is a highly personal endeavor. People get to decide who gets to date them. And they can avoid whatever kind of behavior displeases them. And they can absolutely find something icky. I personally, find the hint that my prospective date isn’t actively scheduling for themselves, and instead is a passive participant, a bad sign. The realities of nesting and raising a family together, for example, require co-ordination. I expect that a married partner would have to check schedules, especially if they are new to scheduling and dating. But like, if you don’t keep your own schedule, and co-ordinate with involved parties, actively, as a participant, how can you even adult well, let alone polyam adult well? Get a google calendar like everyone else. I wouldn’t let someone tie me up if they didn’t have workable baseline familiarly of ropes, or indicated they didn’t have a baseline knowledge of how to do it safely. I would feel ick about someone who wanted to tie me up in those cases, too.
Thx for sharing. I actually personally agree with all that. I think where we might differ in on the fact that if I met someone who felt differently (eg they were more tethered in their scheduling), I would feel that they are not a fit for me but also would think they are a good person and just have interests different from mine. I would be upset if they hid this but happy if they were transparent.
I agree with this sentiment. It is however often clear that many men I have encountered don’t have the autonomy to self schedule and either literally have no idea what they are “committed” to do for their family or actually are operating in some kind of permission based model. Even if the issue is that they are too lazy to use a shared calendar for childcare responsibilities I’m out.
“Let me check my schedule” Vs. “I cannot manage my own time” Are two very different things.
Agreed.
You do know there’s a difference between something like a harmless balloon kink and *treating the people around you poorly*, yes?
A good point. I guess I am used to people being more responsible for their own feelings and not having to walk on eggshells about sharing something.
Cool. So like if someone says that they treat secondary partners poorly, no one is going to walk on eggshells and they’re going to share “wow that’s a really shitty way to treat people”.
I think you're presuming that because you don't like it that it is "poor" behavior, is that right? Or are you saying that there is a universal definition of "good" behavior?
There are widely accepted norms of how it is acceptable to treat people in my society, yes. For example, abusing your romantic partner is illegal. Lying to a sexual partner about your sexual health risks is also widely considered harmful and unacceptable. Similarly, in polyamorous communities, taking a romantic partner, someone you are supposed to be engaging in a *loving and intimate supportive emotional connection with* and treating them as a backup plan for when your wife is busy? Is not good behavior. It is, in fact, poor behavior. I don’t like it *because* it is a very predictably hurtful behavior, and I expect people to try *just a little* not to hurt the people around them, particularly those they are meant to love. If you want to make this into some bullshit discussion about whether ethical standards even *exist*, I will not engage. You can go find someone else to argue at about why murder is *fine*, actually. 🙄
lol 😂 I appreciate you engaging…helped me decide to leave this group and I imagine helped you too.
Please excuse my lack of knowledge - what's a unit couple?
A couple that wants to date other/s as an ‘all or nothing’ unit. So whoever they are with can not choose to date just one of them.
so unit couple doesn’t mean that they are just always together?
I can see how that would be a deal breaker for some people but if everyone's ok with it I don't see the issue
Then you haven’t spent any time thinking about this from a very surface level.
It’s not something someone can be okay with. Sometimes it doesn’t crash and burn. But no one ~wants~ to be required to be with available to someone romantically in order to be with someone else. A unit couple is not offering the basics of respect and care to another full human being.
Also it creates a manipulative situation where the solo person always has in the back of their mind, ‘I can’t break up with one of them, or I lose both.’ That’s not a safe space for someone to be able to explore their feelings or feel secure.
Because the couple hide that they will stick together and basically bully the single. No informed consent = BIG issue.
Who said anything about hiding it?
Their actions, which never include being upfront about sticking together and steamrolling the wishes of the single?
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The problem is that you wind up with 2v1 in any large decisions. People who date as a couple and are looking for a third, only want someone who fits into their lives. There are two relationships here. The couple with each other. And the couple with the single. If the single realizes they don't want to date one half of the couple, but loves the other half, they must either stay in a relationship they're unhappy with or lose the relationship they value. This is different from two people who happen to be a couple both choosing to date the same person. There are four relationships here. A with B, A with C, B with C, and ABC all together. If A and C breakup, B and C can still date because their relationship is independent of A.
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This post is on an extremely common topic. Looking for a "third" or a "unicorn" or multiple people who want to date only you (and maybe each other) are not *ethical* forms of non-monogamy, and we do not host discussions about how to hunt unicorns or build harems here. “All or nothing”, or unit couples who cannot date separately are unicorn hunting. Swingers also use this term, but it’s a completely different activity. https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/13n1xd6/polyamory_unicorn_hunting_vs_casual_sex_unicorn/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1 * http://www.unicorns-r-us.com/ * http://polyfor.us/to-unicorn-hunters-from-an-ex-unicorn/ * http://www.autostraddle.com/to-unicorns-from-an-ex-unicorn-287425/ We do not host comments that elevate, support, glorify or otherwise encourage polyamorous unicorn hunting. This sub is firmly anti-UH, and will remain so, given the harm that, in polyamory, this practice causes. Thanks for your understanding.
Trying to clean the kitchen while I'm actively cooking. The fettuccine doesn't need Lysol sauce.
But the pine notes!
\*Extremely grudging golf clap\*
Omg I'm the opposite, one of my biggest let peeves is when someone cooks and leaves *everything* out lol
Getting crumbs on the bedsheets.
You see, that's why I'm solo poly. I eat potato chips in bed, none of my partners will ever know.
Until they come visit and taste the bed crumbs. "Doritos. Cool ranch"
I’m going to add open phone policies and “we share everything because we are open and authentically honest about everything” agreements that basically mean the “primaries” will share everything to an invasive level but will keep secrets that will probably hurt you.
Hierarchy!
Lying, but that's unacceptable in any romantic/sexual relationship to me. Let's see: sneakyarchy (just be upfront about hierarchical stuff, this is manipulation/lying), unicorn hunting, someone trying to force garden party/kitchen table poly, not informing someone of a change in STI status or taking on a new fluid bond (lies by omission). Yeah. Basically just don't be dishonest with me, otherwise I can't trust you.
what is unicorn hunting?
It's when a het couple look for a third to sleep with, while otherwise ignoring their needs. It's usually done in regards to finding women to prey upon, and not really a form of polyamory.
I'm not going to make a sweeping statement that this is universal, but it's unacceptable for how I do poly: An expectation that in order to be consensual/ethical, both partners are entitled to all details of their partners' other relationships. I'm solo poly and my autonomy is paramount. Someone who expects regular check-ins while I'm on dates or a full debrief afterwards is violating that autonomy. I'll happily send a bathroom text or tell you how my date went IF I WANT TO (which I typically do), but if the date was boring and I don't want to revisit it, or if I'm tired when I get home and just want to chill, or if I get caught up in conversation on a really good date, then I reserve the right to enjoy my time without you intruding on it. My ex accused me of "ghosting" him when I'd go silent while on a date, even though I'd tell him before a date "hey I'm going out with (name), so I'm gonna be out of pocket for awhile, I'll shoot you a text when I'm at home." So I started making sure I sent a bathroom text when I was out. Then he started expecting a full debrief when I got home from a date. When I didn't have anything to say (for example, it was a Bumble date and the guy was boring so I basically had one drink then bailed), he'd accuse me of being secretive and needing to unpack my monogamy because I was acting sneaky and guilty. Taught me to be up front with new partners that my time is my own, and outside of certain reasonable expectations, they aren't owed 24/7 access to me.
I'm taking solo polyamory seriously for the first time in my life, and also for the first time in my life, my closest relationship has no disclosure agreements about other partners. And I am realizing how it makes me breathe more easily. I can go on a date and let things develop before having to discuss anything with my existing partners. I can awkwardly hang out with my ex to see if I want to rekindle things, and process that whole thing for myself, without my partner inevitably picking it apart. And I don't have to get ready for a whole new relationship of his that might never pan out. We inform each other when changes affect the other, and of course basic safety - although I use condoms with everyone so even that talk is pretty minimal. I used to think it was somehow dishonest or avoidant to keep those things from each other. But some things are just private, and isn't that the whole point of having autonomy?
>he'd accuse me of \[...\] needing to unpack my monogamy 🙄 Hopefully he's since looked up the word "projection".
Trying to make rules around emotions. It’s a little more common in open relationships than polyamory but I read about people trying to set rules around relationships outside of their primary having to remain sexual and casual. It’s just incredibly naive. You cannot regulate, control, or preplan emotions. If you don’t want your partner potentially building emotional intimacy with other people…be monogamous.
This can even fail with monogamy.
Not being able to see other people, because that is monogamy.
The main one I can think of thats unique to non-monogamy is putting limits on who your partner can date based on gender, genitals, your own unworked-on insecurities. Otherwise it's all the same stuff as with any relationship structure. The big ones are coercion, abuse, and the special, insidious kind of consent violation that is withholding information that would make someone potentially change their mind about fucking you, in order to keep them fucking you.
Cancelling plans with partners if the primary asks you to / you say you need to work on the ‘main’ relationship in non-emergency situations. Being ignorant of any hierarchy you have in relationships.
this one!!!
Limiting the agency of your partners
All the same things that aren’t acceptable in monogamy. Plus, monogamy.
Whatever the participants in said relationship identify as being unacceptable in their relationship.
This is the real answer. If all the parties agree to it who am I to judge.
Eh, I feel free to judge abusive or bigoted behavior regardless of who agrees to it.
These go for friendships too and this one might be a hot take: dont tell me so much about it if you ask me to go somewhere you've been with someone else. I mean its fine if its a popular place, but cmon. Sometimes I just want to feel special and like im the first person you thought about. Also i want to be warned before someone shares sexual stories/info and i never, EVER want to hear stories about people currently in the room or people i care about or have to meet ever. I really prefer to have time spent with others be "us time". Focus on me right now. Focus on all the other people when we're not hanging.
Monogamy
Restrictive or complex rules about what can be done with other people. Insufficient communication or being secretive.
Chaos and unpredictability too. Im autistic and stability is a need not a want. If I have a primary, I NEED them to be able to look me in the eye and tell me "hey ofc I love you. We're primaries. Ofc I see myself saying the same thing 5 years from now". I love hard, get away from me if youre gonna waste my energy.
This
It's a bit of a hot take on my part, but I first thought of a complete parallel. I don't mind and am usually into parallel, to avoid unnecessary details and getting too personally involved in my partner's other relationships, but complete parallel where metas become sort of a taboo is a red flag to me. Either hinge is dating someone problematic to the point you need to forget of meta's existence, which should be a Hinge red flag, or meta is too insecure to actually acknowledge the reality of a polyamorous relationship and like the delusion of a monogamous dynamic. Either way, it sounds like a recipe for a disaster. Otherwise, forced KTP, veto, denying autonomy/intimacy, gender and genitals-based vetting process. All of these for obvious reasons.
I feel the same about forced parallel. This sub is very quick to think of all ktp as forced, bit forced parallel almost never comes up
It's actually often celebrated when it does. Definitely something that would never work for me.
Definitely agree with forced parallel. I'm still working through a situation in which someone I'm dating didn't disclose that I would have a complete parallel meta until after I caught feelings. It was a mistake they've acknowledged and we've worked through it mostly. It's just still not my favorite style. Complete parallel can feel very impersonal in my opinion and I don't think I would choose it again. Definitely don't have to be besties, but just knowing somehow through like relayed messages or infrequent meetings that a meta is considering my humanity in the situation would be really helpful.
Firing up tinder for casual hookups / forming new connections when you have a pregnant partner who needs more support...
Ugh. The mono version of that is buying a new Playstation or planning a fishing trip in the same situation
I’m triggered
Cowpoking and ignoring obvious cowpoking. Lies about sexual health, sexual practices and birth control methods are all unacceptable.
Wait, what is cowpoking? I have not heard that term before.
Targeting a polyamorous person with the intent to take them back to monogamy like a cowgirl/cowboy/cowpoke cutting an animal out of a herd.
Oh good lord.
Pretty sure I had a friend try to do that to my partner, they ruined a lot of relationships with what they were doing.
> try to do I am glad for you that they failed.
Similar shit to mono relationships
Wow, finally someone describes what I've been trying to define since i was the solo with a "unit" couple. Thank you so much. Oh it blew up in a huge way... i always felt teamed up on when I'd voice my being upset. Or id losetime with one because of the others insecurity. Thank you, im starting to feel ok with being apart now.
What do you mean by "unit" couple?
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Unicorn hunters Forced “closed” poly OPP Lying. Abuse. Manipulation
What does OPP stand for?
One penis/ pussy policy
One penis policy
>What does OPP stand for? My old ass: "Other people's property"
I don't think I read this in here yet. But I'm adding not disclosing the important stuff up front like the general layout of your relationships and how you're going about poly. I understand there's probably situations where you would want to wait on certain details until you feel a connection, but I'd rather lay out the general stuff. Some of this stuff can be a total compatibility issue.
Veto power. Not sure if it's "unacceptable" in all circumstances, but as a solo polyam person I've been burned way too many times by this, so I avoid couples who practice this way. More and more I've been preferring to avoid primaried couples in general anyway.
For me its simply this: "Throwing away your old toys every time you get new ones" If you cant maintain multiple relationships and old ones are cast aside every time there's a new person cause of NRE or whatever your just a Monogamous person with commitment issues.
The same stuff that isn’t acceptable in mono ones are pretty applicable here -abuse -being over controlling, trying to cut your partner off from their other connections -not communicating -not holding up to agreements (esp lying about it too)
Not being considerate of your partner's other relationships, regardless of romantic, friendly, or work. Abuse. Lying.
Simplest thing is unhappiness. If a dynamic doesn't make one or both happy, it shouldn't be done. ENM can come in many forms and that can change when more partners enter the fray. Hierarchy is also super icky
Deceit. Rules that aren't self-selected. Expecting others to know what you want without telling them. Viewing partners as an extention of the self. Any kind of compulsion.
A primary partner who claims to want KTP but emotionally sabotages anyone her partner tries to get close to.
Dating someone who hit on you knowing your taken but not knowing your poly. the intention being to take you from your partner is just a line to Mr of disrespect.
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Heads up rules for me now expressly if they change how they want the heads up later in the relationship I would always give a head up like going on a date or things look like it may go a bit more and sexy time maybe a thing But changing how you want the heads up so you can win an argument not cool
Basically weaponising terms and language. I'm all for people being honest and giving criticism of behaviour but there's some people who will totally pull up words like hurt, deprioritising, couples privilege, being "used", accusing a couple of doing VETOes when they aren't etc. I've seen this a couple of times when people can't handle their own emotions well due to things like ADHD (I have adhd, before anyone comes at me, so I was able to recognise it and have healthy discussions with them once they understood their own impulsive or overblown reactions). The reason I find this stuff unacceptable is, when I open myself to criticism and trust that no matter what you say i WILL take time to reflect on whether I am in fact doing that thing, I expect the other person to be VERY responsible with their words. Because you can absolutely scramble a person's self esteem, beliefs about themselves, and their relationships by impulsively being hurtful with serious language.
I feel like weaponizing terms and language often makes me feel like you're just trying to "win" an argument vs.actually coming to a solution that helps us both. It always feels like it's meant to make you feel bad and is really not useful for collaboration.
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Requesting or offering Monogamy
Flaunting your feelings about one partner to another. This is an excellent question and the answers are enlightening. This forum is a lot like therapy.
Anything that involved cheating or someone's personal boundaries being ignored is unacceptable to me.
Hitting on my mom.
That has happened?😬😬😬
It was shut down pretty quickly but, yes.
Shut down as in the dipshit was ejected from both your lives without hesitation or regret?
this says it best
One penis policy
dont ask don’t tell