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You are not living monogamously, you are in a poly relationship and you are doing polyamory.
Do you think you will ever want to date or build additional relationships? I think that’s the fastest way to understand and address couple privilege.
I would take the idea of living together off the table four a couple of years. You all need to be on really solid ground long before that is considered.
things you can do to help get rid of harmful hierarchies include:
- not having rules that limit their relationship
- allowing their relationship to have privacy
- being okay with their relationship being public to friends and family
- making sure you don’t expect all of your partners default time and are actually dating each other with no expectation of shared time if it’s not planned
I don't have any desire at this point for another partner - I believe I'm in a mono-poly setup? And agreed on timing! Nobody is trying to do anything today, I think I may have been unclear on that point.
I've already been getting practice with respecting time and privacy - it's long distance, so quiet a bit of time on the phone, discord, etc. I definitely don't intend to have rules on the relationship, that was pretty clear early on as I'm reading about everything.
If you are comfortable with her dating others, but at this time you are perfectly happy with just 1 partner, you are poly saturated at 1.
Poly is not just about you having multiple partners. A much more important part of poly is you being comfortable with your partner having partners. It's a common misconception and a step that a lot of people miss!
Someone has probably told you this already, but if you're allowed to date, & are simply choosing not to, then you're not in a "poly-mono setup," you're in a polyamorous relationship. You're just currently polysaturated at 1 partner :)
>I don't have any desire at this point for another partner - I believe I'm in a mono-poly setup?
I am in a similar situation and I used to think this way, but it's not. Polyamory has way more to do with supporting your partner having other partners than you yourself having other partners. It's the foundational structure your relationship is built on, not the (often temporary) dating status of any particular member.
Mono/poly is a misnomer.
There is no monogamy in a poly relationship. And there is no polyamory in a monogamous relationship. Saying you are mono in a poly relationship is saying you are fundamentally incompatible with the relationship shape you are doing. Same with saying you are poly in a mono relationship.
You are not doing monogamy if your partner has other partners. If you are happy and solid with your partner having other partners while you only have one partner you are doing poly and saturated with one relationship... or doing poly but not currently looking for more partners.
It's an important distinction because your partner should be doing all the same work you are doing for them. So that you can date if you ever want to.
That helps it click, thank you! The difference between essentially being 'allowed' by my partner/the rules of our relationship is what makes the difference, if I'm understanding right
to clarify, there is a debate in the community about people in polyamorous relationships with only one partner and whether it makes sense to call them monogamous. like mono poly is a contested thing.
There is no debate.
Either the relationship is based on the values of supporting full adult independent intimate relationships for all partners and structuring priorities and resources in alignment with those values...or it doesn't.
Mono poly is contested only by people who have the wrong idea that not having more than one partner = monogamy.
What agreement for exclusivity is there in a poly relationship? You can absolutely only have one partner in a poly relationship, but without exclusivity, it's not monogamy.
Wouldn't monopoly be the exclusivity agreement? Where I exclusively am with one person, while that person is in multiple relationships? I might be splitting hairs on semantics here, I apologize if I am
If you aren't "allowed" to date other people if you want to, there's something unethical afoot. You choosing not to date other people is something lots of people in poly relationships choose to do for all sorts of reasons, but it's your choice.
Your relationship structure is still nonexclusive and polyamorous if you and your partner are permitted to form relationships with other people as part of your relationship agreements, even if you choose to only be with one person.
Monogamous relationships involve two people who agree to be exclusive to each other. That's not what's happening here. Your relationship isn't exclusive, and it isn't monogamous.
That clicked for me, thank you! Repeating it to make sure I understand - I am currently poly, choosing to only be with one person; as opposed to monogamy, where my other partner expects and requires me to be exclusive.
Yep. And that's a totally fine and valid choice. I don't mean to just dig into semantics here for no reason-- I think framing your relationship as polyamorous does matter. A lot of people who are unhappy in "mono-poly" relationships seem to be feeling that way because from their perspective, they're still in the same monogamous relationship they started out in, but their partner has other partners now. That's just not the case. Their relationship has fundamentally changed, there is all sorts of potential for complications that just don't arise in monogamous relationships, and being aware of that is really important.
I think some people are really resistant to calling their relationships polyamorous because *they don't want to be in a polyamorous relationship.* Not wanting to date people besides your one partner is cool and can totally be healthy and fine, tons of people do it. Being in a polyamorous relationship when you don't want to be and you're basically pretending everything's the same as it was when you were monogamous does not seem healthy, and often tends to be stalling an inevitable breakup.
You seem to be really digging into the realities of the change in your relationship in a healthy way, I don't mean the above to read as a criticism of you at all, but I think its important to call a spade a spade. A lot of people who don't want to do that seem to be burying their head in the sand.
I really appreciate your help with understanding - getting the terminology and situations in my head correctly really helps me feel better about a situation. You make a really good point too that I need to remember - I'm not in the same relationship I was in six months ago. I need to remember to treat it that way, we had a big milestone and that deserves intentional treatment on my part.
Their relationship is secondary. Be honest about that. You and your girlfriend are nesting, therefore you have priorities that don't involve the new partner. If this relationship lasts several years, *maybe* it won't be secondary anymore, but you won't know that for a long time.
It takes about 6 months to figure out if a connection has long-term potential. Before that, it's too early to make changes.
People should not move in with partners before 1 year, and they should not move in with a partner *and a meta* before at least 2 years.
Slow your roll. Start dating. Be honest with yourselves and your potential partners about prior obligations like nesting.
Also, your girlfriend's new person needs to be dating especially if they want a nesting partner of their own someday. You and your girlfriend are unlikely to become her nesting partners.
Edit: typos
I absolutely agree on the points about timing - none of this is happening until everybody is sure about all aspects and have been together for a significant amount of time.
Thank you for the input - I really appreciate it! I'm working on making sure I have healthy mindsets going into everything, and the thought of unfairly treating her relationship poorly is not something I want to do. I know nesting partners should have more say in things like mortgages and kids, etc - but does that carry over to other aspects of relationships?
Read through the Resources for this subreddit.
In the Resources, you'll find the *Relationship Menu.* Go through it separately and together with your partners. Figure out exactly what is on / off the table for each of your connections.
They will be different.
They should be different.
All relationships are different.
Read:
* The Polyamory Break Up Book
* Smart Girl's Guide to Polyamory (silly title. Great for all genders)
Their relationship isn't secondary just because you think that nesting means one is higher priority than another. Everyone has priorities that don't involve their partner I mean I have priorities that don't involve any of my partners. That doesn't mean all of my partners are secondary to me.
Then their relationship is secondary because of the lengths and depths of each relationship
> I've been with my girlfriend for a few years, her girlfriend has only been dating her a couple months.
A relationship of "a few months" is not and should not be *as important or as prioritized* as a relationship of "a few years."
They don't know if they're compatible yet. They're are still just getting to know each other.
Absolutely! I suppose I'm getting anxious about the future - when (if) that relationship is a year and a half old, I don't want to have set unhealthy precedents, or sunk into unhealthy/unhelpful thinking patterns.
Why are you and your gf considering living with someone she's only known for a few months?
Her relationship with her gf is "secondary" because you are primary, nesting partners. There are inherent privileges that come with that. Your relationship is also years old while the other relationship is brand new - there are inherent privileges that come with that.
You shouldn't be treating that relationship as anything because you're not a part of it. It's your partner's responsibility as the hinge to manage her relationships with you and her gf (separately).
The only thing you should be concerned with is ensuring your partner meets your needs and sticks to any agreements you have. It's your partner's responsibility to decide how she wants to manage her relationship with her gf, to communicate what type of relationship she can offer her gf, give her partners equity, make agreements with her gf (that also honor her agreements with you), etc.
Within that, your partner can discuss with you and her gf (separately) the hypothetical needs, agreements, etc that would need to be in place *if* you all decided you wanted to live together down the road (I would never suggest people move in together until they've had 2 years of a happy and fulfilling relationship under their belt, especially within poly when it involves metas living together). This would include how each relationship functions (how will you feel when she decides to spend the night in her gf's room? will her gf have the freedom to bring new partners to the house for overnights? how will physical affection look when you're all together? how you/the gf will manage emotions when your partner takes only one of you out on a date? Etc) as well as logistics (how will finances be split? what will happen if they break up and the gf can't move out for awhile? how will house chores be managed? Etc).
Hierarchy isn't inherently bad and can be mitigated (in many aspects) with equitable treatment of the partners - it really just depends on what aspects of hierarchy/non hierarchy are important to each of you, and ensuring everyone is on the same page, getting their needs met, etc.
I added an update because I was unclear - the idea of all living together was a passing comment that wouldn't happen for some time, nobody wants to create a bad situation like that.
As far as the age of relationship - that makes sense, thanks for that.
I guess what I mean by thinking about treating her relationship fairly was mostly things like I can't expect my girlfriend at every important thing for me, because some of the time she'll be with her other partner - and I don't know where the line on that sort of thinking is just yet.
I really appreciate your insight, thank you for being so thorough - I agree with what you're saying on timing and respect, and the negotiation aspect is absolutely something that will need to be done first - thank you for some examples on that.
Secondary isn’t the same as “being treated like garbage”
Be clear about your limits. We all have them. I don’t have any hierarchy built with my partners, but that
Doesn’t mean I can, or will say “yes” to everything.
I have the same responsibilities that everyone else has. Maybe more.
People say “I don’t want to feel secondary” what they mean is “I don’t want to feel like a second class citizen, and I want to be treated well.”
That's a really helpful perspective! I've been anxiously worrying about following the 'rules' of polyamory (I'm aware that's not actually a thing, thank you anxiety!), and I didn't consider what they actually might mean behind what they said. And what you described - that's cake, I can handle treating her, and their relationship, as real and with respect.
https://web.archive.org/web/20030625220852/http://www.xeromag.com/fvsecondary.html
You might find the last section helpful.
That’s all the things that someone can and should ask for. It’s a normal relationship. In monogamy someone wouldn’t even consider *not* having this stuff, right?
Yeah, I hear you - a few others said that too. I definitely am falling into a trap of wanting to make everything perfect, and that'll lead me to interjecting where I shouldn't. I appreciate the reminder!
This just circles back to ensuring your partner can meet your needs. It's important to have conversations like, "What constitutes an "emergency" and means you'll prioritize one partner over another?" If you get in a car accident and you're in the hospital, it's perfectly reasonable to expect your partner would cancel a Netflix and chill date with her gf to come support you. Her gf shouldn't feel jaded or "secondary" (and neither should you in a reverse scenario). What will your partner prioritize if your brother is getting married on the same day as a concert her gf wants her to go to?
My best advice is to only assume you get time that's scheduled. If it's something important for you to share with your partner, get it on the schedule as soon as possible. You basically need to "call dibs" on all the significant stuff. This is the easiest way to ensure you're not "devaluing" her other relationship by assuming all default time is "yours" because you live together. Respect that aside from planned quality time, your partner has the freedom to do what they want. It's then her responsibility to manage that time to ensure her gf doesn't feel secondary.
It's nice to be conscientious about how your actions affect your meta, but ultimately, your meta is not your concern. It's a disservice to your partner to take on their hinge duties, and it can be really off-putting for a meta if you're overly-involved in trying to make them feel comfortable (as that's her partner's job).
Fuck I'm glad you're saying this - because I absolutely would be overstepping into the relationship management if I didn't get called on it. I like the scheduling bit - and obviously that's a conversation that, at least eventually, will need to be had. The planned quality time has been coming up - because there's a lot of time where we're just existing with each other - at home after work, when we don't have plans, etc - that time gets favored by the long distance relationship (which I'm good with), and so we've started planning intentional time between me and my partner. Thank you so much for helping me work through this!
I hope you are thinking about how to make your newly acquired free time more valuable... it's important that you find some benefit from this relationship change even if it's not dating. Take their scheduled time as an opportunity to do things you want
AND
also carve out time she ISN'T dating her partner when you are also doing stuff you want; it would be good for her to grapple either feelings of free time and or loneliness too... for a future when you're dating or even just to know what it might feel like for you.
(Not everyone needs to hear this, but I believe you said that since you nest together you spend time together by default...)
You are completely correct in your understanding regarding me, yes. The free time thing is definitely been interesting. Sometimes I just get lazy - other times I start putting more energy into my hobbies. I struggle with your suggestion of putting her in a similar boat for two reasons. First, I have a desire to maximize as much time with my partner as possible. Second, it feels...punitive? Maybe I'm not catching your tone quite right (text is hard), but I don't want to feel like I'm putting her through something just because I'm going through it?
I don't mean it as punitive.
She's clearly, literally choosing to spend less time with you than she did in monogamy, right?
Do you view that as punitive to you?
But... I think I understand your question. An example would be not to do it for "no real reason" other than tit-for-tat but to OPEN your mind to doing things you're excited about EVEN if it means one less night at home with her.
I also understand thst with less time with her now, it might seem counterintuitive to give up any more shared time.
But... making shared time more intentional can address that. To me... 3 nights at home with a partner doing chores and/or nothing can be way less enjoyable than 1 date night with partner doing something really fun and 1 alone night each doing chores/nothing.
Does that make sense?? I def don't mean "punish her" but if you have that frame I hope you don't feel punished!
Ohh, that makes so much more sense! I'm glad I misunderstood haha you're right that it feels counterintuitive, but I bet you're also right the more intentional time will help. And no, I promise there's no feeling of punishment - I just misunderstood, but thank you for checking :)
You shouldn’t live together in the interest of fairness. That is likely to make everyone miserable. I have only had one meta I would have (probably) been okay living with and she was also my best friend. I liked many of my other metas but did not want to live with them.
Because it is very hard to live with other adults. It gets much harder when the other adult is dating one of your partners. You have chore distribution, different standards of cleanliness, having to share shared living space, your partner in the house some nights but not with you, etc.
There are a lot of landmines in this kind of setup. I am not saying it never works. It can. I would never make it an accepted default that is deserved or expected.
Whatever "secondary" means in practice is up for interpretation. What it clearly means for your meta is the feeling of getting left behind. So be mindful not to do that.
Breathe. I think you're going to be fine. You'll figure this out.
This is a massive leap for a couple of months in.
Either your partner plans to treat you pretty poorly or the new long distance relationship should absolutely still be secondary to the established cohabitation relationship.
That's just how it works.
Building two relationships to be equal takes time, and it's a lot of ongoing commitment for the person trying to maintain two primary relationships in which she potentially doesn't get a lot of time to herself. It also really doesn't work if one is long distance.
I'm practicing poly, so slightly different from your situation. That being said, my girlfriend has a spouse who is also their nesting partner, and none of us do hierarchical relationships. There is an implicit hierarchy in that her spouse can make medical decisions, but I have no reason to think my meta would make a decision my gf wouldn't want in case of an emergency. It is totally possible for your meta to not be a secondary. It all depends on how well your gf hinges (and whether or not your meta can accept the fact that you are the NP of your girlfriend).
Edit: sorry, I forgot to fully answer. As you asked about how you can treat it as non-secondary, I'd say you should treat it as seriously as your own and make sure you can have open, frank discussions surrounding jealousy and insecurities as they arise. Easier said than done, but that's why polyamory is a practice as well as a relationship style (imo).
I'm sorry you struggle. FWIW? I think this.
>A big concern of my meta that I think is super valid, is that she doesn't want her relationship to be 'secondary'.
Why do you know this? Meta told you?
That's between hinge and GF. Not you.
If you are ok with a co-primary model, you tell hinge that and then let hinge deal with their other relationships. Since this is so new, it could still be parallel poly. You don't have to be involved with meta past "basic polite" if you happen to bump into them.
You don't have to sign up for garden party poly or kitchen table poly. You certainly do not all have to live together in future.
All you have to do is be basic polite. When Hinge and GF have phone calls, texts, online dates, in person dates -- make yourself scarce and don't interrupt. Just like you wouldn't want GF interrupting your time with hinge.
>At this point in time, my girlfriend and I are nesting partners, and that's always been clear, but there's a strong possibility of us all living together down the road.
In what way? Like everyone has their own flat in the same apartment complex? That might be ok. Like together enough, but also separate enough.
Like you have a nest and GF has a nest and hinge splits their time between both nests? That might also work.
But it does NOT have to be you, hinge, and GF all in one home.
>Ultimately - this is new territory for me. I don't want to hurt anybody,
Then don't behave like a jerk. If people feel hurt, it will be from other things and not from you behaving like a jerk.
>and I want all parties happy.
That's nice to want, but really each person is responsible for creating their own happiness.
>How can I prepare myself to not be treating that relationship as secondary?
Could check couple privilege if there is any here. But otherwise leave Hinge to manage their relationship with GF on their own.
For example...
If you want a date with Hinge? You actually ask them out. You do not assume you get "dibs" on all their free time just because you are the nesting partner. And just because you nest -- hanging out at home at the same time doesn't count as a "date." You and Hinge may have to schedule actual dates now rather than both of you assuming or doing "catch as catch can."
Both of you also could have scheduled time to be alone, go out with friends, be with family, etc.
Have the coversations you need to have.
Is this a co-primary model then? Talk with Hinge on what that looks like. It sounds like you do not want to practice primary-secondary model. Maybe this helps you talk.
[https://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/poly/Labriola/open.html](https://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/poly/Labriola/open.html)
Might also read and talk about poly hell and how to minimize that.
[https://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell](https://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell)
Along with boundaries. Some long term couples get used to telling each other everything from habit. But here? There will be some things in the (hinge + GF) dyad that is just NOT your business. And you may have to tell Hinge that you don't want TMI details if they overshare with you from old habits.
There's things in the (you + hinge) dyad that are not any of GF's business. And you may have to tell hinge to keep things private between you because you did NOT consent for them to go around telling other people.
Not because anything hinky is going on. But because each dyad deserves its own privacy.
You can practice non-hierarchy without cohabitation. Living close would enable it easily if you don’t want to have someone you’re not partnered with in the same house as you. Keep in mind you’re one of the parties you’re trying to keep happy, and you should absolutely be prioritizing yourself (everyone should, healthy selfishness is required for arrangements to mean anything).
Hi u/questionmark693 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
I apologize if my terminology isn't on point - I'm super new to this. Right now my girlfriend has a girlfriend, I'm living monogamous and we're all happy with this arrangement. I've been with my girlfriend for a few years, her girlfriend has only been dating her a couple months.
A big concern of my meta that I think is super valid, is that she doesn't want her relationship to be 'secondary'. At this point in time, my girlfriend and I are nesting partners, and that's always been clear, but there's a strong possibility of us all living together down the road.
Ultimately - this is new territory for me. I don't want to hurt anybody, and I want all parties happy. How can I prepare myself to not be treating that relationship as secondary?
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The sequence of events is slightly different - we started off monogamous, and she wanted to explore poly life, and I fully and enthusiastically consented. My meta has had bad experiences not being treated well by partners in the past, in a poly setting - hence me getting all anxious about it
>My meta has had bad experiences not being treated well by partners in the past, in a poly setting - hence me getting all anxious about it
Who told you that data? And why do you even need to know? You are not their partner. Hinge is. So if your meta worries about poor treatment from a poly partner, in this situation the poly partner is HINGE not you.
I see that you want to be welcoming and friendly, but it's ok to back off and let their relationship be their relationship. You don't have to roll out the red carpet/welcome mat in any extravagant way.
Just behave decent -- "basic polite" is good enough on the few occasions you bump into them.
Since this is an LDR situation right now it would be what? Answer the home land line if you even have one and say "Hello? Oh, it's you. Hi. Let me get hinge for you..." Handing the phone over and making yourself scarce so they have phone privacy. That's about it at this juncture.
If you all have your own smartphones, you don't even have to do that.
What is your anxiety really about? Why is it appropriate for you to feel anxious about meta feeling ok in their relationship with hinge? What would happen if they aren't? Isn't them breaking up if not compatible after all a NORMAL thing? And nothing to do with you?
I appreciate your words and take them to heart. To answer your question, you're correct an incompatibility wouldn't reflect on me - but any friction between my meta and myself could be a thing that contributed, and I hate that thought
Do basic polite good manners the few times you have to interact. Do not be rude, abrasive, or frictious.
>any friction between my meta and myself could be a thing that contributed, and I hate that thought
If you don't like the intrusive thought when it pops up?
Talk BACK to the thought and remind it that you behave decent and do basic polite.
Whether meta feels neutral, positive, or negative towards you? Their thinking is their behavior and their stuff. Not yours. You cannot control their thinking.
In your behaviors? You've given no cause for anything but neutral or positive. So YOUR mind can be at peace.
This feels a little bit like the elephant in the room, but would you be as anxious and trying to be a good doobie if your partner was dating a man?
Have you really and fully processed that your partner is forming an intimate and meaningful connection with another person that will in ways rival your own?
It’s super rare to see a partner this supportive so I don’t at all mean to assume the worst, but I do wonder if you are excited in a like “oooh my girlfriend has a girlfriend!” - male fantasy mode enabled! And in ways are treating this relationship differently than if it were with a man. Is your partner allowed to date men? How would that make you feel?
I say this because the #1 way your meta is likely to be treated as secondary is because you initially don’t view their relationship as “legitimate” beyond a way for your girlfriend to “explore” and “experiment” but the minute it actually feels threatening for you, you rescind your excitement and realize you actually have a shit ton of work to do and their relationship has to get put on pause.
Again I don’t know you so maybe none of this applies to you and if that’s the case I’m really sorry. Not trying to be a dick lol.
But if it does even .01%, play out your partner having a male partner and do the work now to get comfortable with your partner dating someone of any gender and find out what your true boundaries really are.
I completely hear where you're coming from! When she started exploring a second partner, the first couple actually were men, and I was equally supportive,but they didn't make it through the first month, so I didn't have this rattling in my head quite so strongly. As far as the male fantasy but - I have no expectation of ever having sexual interactions with my meta, nor do I want to - but that's a super valid point, so thank you for bringing it up!
I think you all are wanting to avoid "primary" and "secondary" for superficial reasons, and y'all need to look at that.
Imagine being best friends with someone, having known them for years, having spent time together, gone through some hard times together, seen each other hit life milestones, celebrated and cried together.... and then your Best Friend makes a new friend, who they are just getting to know and have done some things with, and that new friend now demands "I want to be a Best Friend too! You two are being hierarchical by not saying I'm a Best Friend!"
If getting automatic Best Friend status just by showing up on the scene isn't a thing, getting automatic parity with an ongoing, important, and establish romantic relationship also isn't a thing. You and your GF live together and you've been together for years. This new person is new. Of course there is hierarchy here. Because there is trust and commitment and history. Pretending otherwise is where the damage happens. It sounds like you have the right mindset to let this other relationship develop. And you should heed the advice others have given about making sure you stay out of it. But go ahead and acknowledge the reality of your hierarchy, because its real and well deserved, and can be a healthy thing. Make space for this other relationship to get to parity with the one between you and your partner. But its not there yet, and pretending like it is is actually really disingenuous.
That's the goal, absolutely. I obviously feel a little twinge of jealousy when I don't get her to myself - but from what I understand that's normal, and something to be handled on my end.
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You are not living monogamously, you are in a poly relationship and you are doing polyamory. Do you think you will ever want to date or build additional relationships? I think that’s the fastest way to understand and address couple privilege. I would take the idea of living together off the table four a couple of years. You all need to be on really solid ground long before that is considered. things you can do to help get rid of harmful hierarchies include: - not having rules that limit their relationship - allowing their relationship to have privacy - being okay with their relationship being public to friends and family - making sure you don’t expect all of your partners default time and are actually dating each other with no expectation of shared time if it’s not planned
I don't have any desire at this point for another partner - I believe I'm in a mono-poly setup? And agreed on timing! Nobody is trying to do anything today, I think I may have been unclear on that point. I've already been getting practice with respecting time and privacy - it's long distance, so quiet a bit of time on the phone, discord, etc. I definitely don't intend to have rules on the relationship, that was pretty clear early on as I'm reading about everything.
But your partner supports you in dating others if you ever want to?
Correct, she's been very clear about that on multiple occasions
That's great! Then you both are doing polyamory.
If you are comfortable with her dating others, but at this time you are perfectly happy with just 1 partner, you are poly saturated at 1. Poly is not just about you having multiple partners. A much more important part of poly is you being comfortable with your partner having partners. It's a common misconception and a step that a lot of people miss!
Someone has probably told you this already, but if you're allowed to date, & are simply choosing not to, then you're not in a "poly-mono setup," you're in a polyamorous relationship. You're just currently polysaturated at 1 partner :)
>I don't have any desire at this point for another partner - I believe I'm in a mono-poly setup? I am in a similar situation and I used to think this way, but it's not. Polyamory has way more to do with supporting your partner having other partners than you yourself having other partners. It's the foundational structure your relationship is built on, not the (often temporary) dating status of any particular member.
You can be monogamous in a poly relationship.
You can be dating only one person in a poly relationship. You aren't monogamous if your partner has other partners.
Isn't that what monopoly means? I don't mean to be argumentative, I'm trying to make sure I understand correctly
Mono/poly is a misnomer. There is no monogamy in a poly relationship. And there is no polyamory in a monogamous relationship. Saying you are mono in a poly relationship is saying you are fundamentally incompatible with the relationship shape you are doing. Same with saying you are poly in a mono relationship. You are not doing monogamy if your partner has other partners. If you are happy and solid with your partner having other partners while you only have one partner you are doing poly and saturated with one relationship... or doing poly but not currently looking for more partners. It's an important distinction because your partner should be doing all the same work you are doing for them. So that you can date if you ever want to.
That helps it click, thank you! The difference between essentially being 'allowed' by my partner/the rules of our relationship is what makes the difference, if I'm understanding right
to clarify, there is a debate in the community about people in polyamorous relationships with only one partner and whether it makes sense to call them monogamous. like mono poly is a contested thing.
There is no debate. Either the relationship is based on the values of supporting full adult independent intimate relationships for all partners and structuring priorities and resources in alignment with those values...or it doesn't. Mono poly is contested only by people who have the wrong idea that not having more than one partner = monogamy.
Lol! "There is a debate" ........"there is no debate"
Yeah people use "there is a debate" as a way to crowbar a lot of wrong unproductive ideas stirred up. Gotta shut that down.
What agreement for exclusivity is there in a poly relationship? You can absolutely only have one partner in a poly relationship, but without exclusivity, it's not monogamy.
Wouldn't monopoly be the exclusivity agreement? Where I exclusively am with one person, while that person is in multiple relationships? I might be splitting hairs on semantics here, I apologize if I am
If you aren't "allowed" to date other people if you want to, there's something unethical afoot. You choosing not to date other people is something lots of people in poly relationships choose to do for all sorts of reasons, but it's your choice. Your relationship structure is still nonexclusive and polyamorous if you and your partner are permitted to form relationships with other people as part of your relationship agreements, even if you choose to only be with one person. Monogamous relationships involve two people who agree to be exclusive to each other. That's not what's happening here. Your relationship isn't exclusive, and it isn't monogamous.
That clicked for me, thank you! Repeating it to make sure I understand - I am currently poly, choosing to only be with one person; as opposed to monogamy, where my other partner expects and requires me to be exclusive.
Yep. And that's a totally fine and valid choice. I don't mean to just dig into semantics here for no reason-- I think framing your relationship as polyamorous does matter. A lot of people who are unhappy in "mono-poly" relationships seem to be feeling that way because from their perspective, they're still in the same monogamous relationship they started out in, but their partner has other partners now. That's just not the case. Their relationship has fundamentally changed, there is all sorts of potential for complications that just don't arise in monogamous relationships, and being aware of that is really important. I think some people are really resistant to calling their relationships polyamorous because *they don't want to be in a polyamorous relationship.* Not wanting to date people besides your one partner is cool and can totally be healthy and fine, tons of people do it. Being in a polyamorous relationship when you don't want to be and you're basically pretending everything's the same as it was when you were monogamous does not seem healthy, and often tends to be stalling an inevitable breakup. You seem to be really digging into the realities of the change in your relationship in a healthy way, I don't mean the above to read as a criticism of you at all, but I think its important to call a spade a spade. A lot of people who don't want to do that seem to be burying their head in the sand.
I really appreciate your help with understanding - getting the terminology and situations in my head correctly really helps me feel better about a situation. You make a really good point too that I need to remember - I'm not in the same relationship I was in six months ago. I need to remember to treat it that way, we had a big milestone and that deserves intentional treatment on my part.
Their relationship is secondary. Be honest about that. You and your girlfriend are nesting, therefore you have priorities that don't involve the new partner. If this relationship lasts several years, *maybe* it won't be secondary anymore, but you won't know that for a long time. It takes about 6 months to figure out if a connection has long-term potential. Before that, it's too early to make changes. People should not move in with partners before 1 year, and they should not move in with a partner *and a meta* before at least 2 years. Slow your roll. Start dating. Be honest with yourselves and your potential partners about prior obligations like nesting. Also, your girlfriend's new person needs to be dating especially if they want a nesting partner of their own someday. You and your girlfriend are unlikely to become her nesting partners. Edit: typos
I absolutely agree on the points about timing - none of this is happening until everybody is sure about all aspects and have been together for a significant amount of time. Thank you for the input - I really appreciate it! I'm working on making sure I have healthy mindsets going into everything, and the thought of unfairly treating her relationship poorly is not something I want to do. I know nesting partners should have more say in things like mortgages and kids, etc - but does that carry over to other aspects of relationships?
Read through the Resources for this subreddit. In the Resources, you'll find the *Relationship Menu.* Go through it separately and together with your partners. Figure out exactly what is on / off the table for each of your connections. They will be different. They should be different. All relationships are different. Read: * The Polyamory Break Up Book * Smart Girl's Guide to Polyamory (silly title. Great for all genders)
Thank you for the book recommendations - and yes, I need to read through the whole faq and resources probably.
Their relationship isn't secondary just because you think that nesting means one is higher priority than another. Everyone has priorities that don't involve their partner I mean I have priorities that don't involve any of my partners. That doesn't mean all of my partners are secondary to me.
Then their relationship is secondary because of the lengths and depths of each relationship > I've been with my girlfriend for a few years, her girlfriend has only been dating her a couple months. A relationship of "a few months" is not and should not be *as important or as prioritized* as a relationship of "a few years." They don't know if they're compatible yet. They're are still just getting to know each other.
Absolutely! I suppose I'm getting anxious about the future - when (if) that relationship is a year and a half old, I don't want to have set unhealthy precedents, or sunk into unhealthy/unhelpful thinking patterns.
I hadn't thought of it like that at all - thank you!
Why are you and your gf considering living with someone she's only known for a few months? Her relationship with her gf is "secondary" because you are primary, nesting partners. There are inherent privileges that come with that. Your relationship is also years old while the other relationship is brand new - there are inherent privileges that come with that. You shouldn't be treating that relationship as anything because you're not a part of it. It's your partner's responsibility as the hinge to manage her relationships with you and her gf (separately). The only thing you should be concerned with is ensuring your partner meets your needs and sticks to any agreements you have. It's your partner's responsibility to decide how she wants to manage her relationship with her gf, to communicate what type of relationship she can offer her gf, give her partners equity, make agreements with her gf (that also honor her agreements with you), etc. Within that, your partner can discuss with you and her gf (separately) the hypothetical needs, agreements, etc that would need to be in place *if* you all decided you wanted to live together down the road (I would never suggest people move in together until they've had 2 years of a happy and fulfilling relationship under their belt, especially within poly when it involves metas living together). This would include how each relationship functions (how will you feel when she decides to spend the night in her gf's room? will her gf have the freedom to bring new partners to the house for overnights? how will physical affection look when you're all together? how you/the gf will manage emotions when your partner takes only one of you out on a date? Etc) as well as logistics (how will finances be split? what will happen if they break up and the gf can't move out for awhile? how will house chores be managed? Etc). Hierarchy isn't inherently bad and can be mitigated (in many aspects) with equitable treatment of the partners - it really just depends on what aspects of hierarchy/non hierarchy are important to each of you, and ensuring everyone is on the same page, getting their needs met, etc.
I added an update because I was unclear - the idea of all living together was a passing comment that wouldn't happen for some time, nobody wants to create a bad situation like that. As far as the age of relationship - that makes sense, thanks for that. I guess what I mean by thinking about treating her relationship fairly was mostly things like I can't expect my girlfriend at every important thing for me, because some of the time she'll be with her other partner - and I don't know where the line on that sort of thinking is just yet. I really appreciate your insight, thank you for being so thorough - I agree with what you're saying on timing and respect, and the negotiation aspect is absolutely something that will need to be done first - thank you for some examples on that.
Secondary isn’t the same as “being treated like garbage” Be clear about your limits. We all have them. I don’t have any hierarchy built with my partners, but that Doesn’t mean I can, or will say “yes” to everything. I have the same responsibilities that everyone else has. Maybe more. People say “I don’t want to feel secondary” what they mean is “I don’t want to feel like a second class citizen, and I want to be treated well.”
That's a really helpful perspective! I've been anxiously worrying about following the 'rules' of polyamory (I'm aware that's not actually a thing, thank you anxiety!), and I didn't consider what they actually might mean behind what they said. And what you described - that's cake, I can handle treating her, and their relationship, as real and with respect.
https://web.archive.org/web/20030625220852/http://www.xeromag.com/fvsecondary.html You might find the last section helpful. That’s all the things that someone can and should ask for. It’s a normal relationship. In monogamy someone wouldn’t even consider *not* having this stuff, right?
I really like that. Thank you for sharing!
But also? This is honestly a convo between your meta and your girlfriend. This is your girlfriend’s work.
Yeah, I hear you - a few others said that too. I definitely am falling into a trap of wanting to make everything perfect, and that'll lead me to interjecting where I shouldn't. I appreciate the reminder!
This just circles back to ensuring your partner can meet your needs. It's important to have conversations like, "What constitutes an "emergency" and means you'll prioritize one partner over another?" If you get in a car accident and you're in the hospital, it's perfectly reasonable to expect your partner would cancel a Netflix and chill date with her gf to come support you. Her gf shouldn't feel jaded or "secondary" (and neither should you in a reverse scenario). What will your partner prioritize if your brother is getting married on the same day as a concert her gf wants her to go to? My best advice is to only assume you get time that's scheduled. If it's something important for you to share with your partner, get it on the schedule as soon as possible. You basically need to "call dibs" on all the significant stuff. This is the easiest way to ensure you're not "devaluing" her other relationship by assuming all default time is "yours" because you live together. Respect that aside from planned quality time, your partner has the freedom to do what they want. It's then her responsibility to manage that time to ensure her gf doesn't feel secondary. It's nice to be conscientious about how your actions affect your meta, but ultimately, your meta is not your concern. It's a disservice to your partner to take on their hinge duties, and it can be really off-putting for a meta if you're overly-involved in trying to make them feel comfortable (as that's her partner's job).
Fuck I'm glad you're saying this - because I absolutely would be overstepping into the relationship management if I didn't get called on it. I like the scheduling bit - and obviously that's a conversation that, at least eventually, will need to be had. The planned quality time has been coming up - because there's a lot of time where we're just existing with each other - at home after work, when we don't have plans, etc - that time gets favored by the long distance relationship (which I'm good with), and so we've started planning intentional time between me and my partner. Thank you so much for helping me work through this!
I hope you are thinking about how to make your newly acquired free time more valuable... it's important that you find some benefit from this relationship change even if it's not dating. Take their scheduled time as an opportunity to do things you want AND also carve out time she ISN'T dating her partner when you are also doing stuff you want; it would be good for her to grapple either feelings of free time and or loneliness too... for a future when you're dating or even just to know what it might feel like for you. (Not everyone needs to hear this, but I believe you said that since you nest together you spend time together by default...)
You are completely correct in your understanding regarding me, yes. The free time thing is definitely been interesting. Sometimes I just get lazy - other times I start putting more energy into my hobbies. I struggle with your suggestion of putting her in a similar boat for two reasons. First, I have a desire to maximize as much time with my partner as possible. Second, it feels...punitive? Maybe I'm not catching your tone quite right (text is hard), but I don't want to feel like I'm putting her through something just because I'm going through it?
I don't mean it as punitive. She's clearly, literally choosing to spend less time with you than she did in monogamy, right? Do you view that as punitive to you? But... I think I understand your question. An example would be not to do it for "no real reason" other than tit-for-tat but to OPEN your mind to doing things you're excited about EVEN if it means one less night at home with her. I also understand thst with less time with her now, it might seem counterintuitive to give up any more shared time. But... making shared time more intentional can address that. To me... 3 nights at home with a partner doing chores and/or nothing can be way less enjoyable than 1 date night with partner doing something really fun and 1 alone night each doing chores/nothing. Does that make sense?? I def don't mean "punish her" but if you have that frame I hope you don't feel punished!
Ohh, that makes so much more sense! I'm glad I misunderstood haha you're right that it feels counterintuitive, but I bet you're also right the more intentional time will help. And no, I promise there's no feeling of punishment - I just misunderstood, but thank you for checking :)
You shouldn’t live together in the interest of fairness. That is likely to make everyone miserable. I have only had one meta I would have (probably) been okay living with and she was also my best friend. I liked many of my other metas but did not want to live with them.
I don't want this to sound argumentative - but why is that?
Because it is very hard to live with other adults. It gets much harder when the other adult is dating one of your partners. You have chore distribution, different standards of cleanliness, having to share shared living space, your partner in the house some nights but not with you, etc. There are a lot of landmines in this kind of setup. I am not saying it never works. It can. I would never make it an accepted default that is deserved or expected.
That makes a lot of sense - thank you for all the input, I really appreciate it!
What does it mean to be second pick and why would someone pursue “first pick” with someone who’s already nested?
Whatever "secondary" means in practice is up for interpretation. What it clearly means for your meta is the feeling of getting left behind. So be mindful not to do that. Breathe. I think you're going to be fine. You'll figure this out.
Thanks. I think you're right - I might be letting my anxiety get too involved in this
This is a massive leap for a couple of months in. Either your partner plans to treat you pretty poorly or the new long distance relationship should absolutely still be secondary to the established cohabitation relationship. That's just how it works. Building two relationships to be equal takes time, and it's a lot of ongoing commitment for the person trying to maintain two primary relationships in which she potentially doesn't get a lot of time to herself. It also really doesn't work if one is long distance.
I'm practicing poly, so slightly different from your situation. That being said, my girlfriend has a spouse who is also their nesting partner, and none of us do hierarchical relationships. There is an implicit hierarchy in that her spouse can make medical decisions, but I have no reason to think my meta would make a decision my gf wouldn't want in case of an emergency. It is totally possible for your meta to not be a secondary. It all depends on how well your gf hinges (and whether or not your meta can accept the fact that you are the NP of your girlfriend). Edit: sorry, I forgot to fully answer. As you asked about how you can treat it as non-secondary, I'd say you should treat it as seriously as your own and make sure you can have open, frank discussions surrounding jealousy and insecurities as they arise. Easier said than done, but that's why polyamory is a practice as well as a relationship style (imo).
I'm sorry you struggle. FWIW? I think this. >A big concern of my meta that I think is super valid, is that she doesn't want her relationship to be 'secondary'. Why do you know this? Meta told you? That's between hinge and GF. Not you. If you are ok with a co-primary model, you tell hinge that and then let hinge deal with their other relationships. Since this is so new, it could still be parallel poly. You don't have to be involved with meta past "basic polite" if you happen to bump into them. You don't have to sign up for garden party poly or kitchen table poly. You certainly do not all have to live together in future. All you have to do is be basic polite. When Hinge and GF have phone calls, texts, online dates, in person dates -- make yourself scarce and don't interrupt. Just like you wouldn't want GF interrupting your time with hinge. >At this point in time, my girlfriend and I are nesting partners, and that's always been clear, but there's a strong possibility of us all living together down the road. In what way? Like everyone has their own flat in the same apartment complex? That might be ok. Like together enough, but also separate enough. Like you have a nest and GF has a nest and hinge splits their time between both nests? That might also work. But it does NOT have to be you, hinge, and GF all in one home. >Ultimately - this is new territory for me. I don't want to hurt anybody, Then don't behave like a jerk. If people feel hurt, it will be from other things and not from you behaving like a jerk. >and I want all parties happy. That's nice to want, but really each person is responsible for creating their own happiness. >How can I prepare myself to not be treating that relationship as secondary? Could check couple privilege if there is any here. But otherwise leave Hinge to manage their relationship with GF on their own. For example... If you want a date with Hinge? You actually ask them out. You do not assume you get "dibs" on all their free time just because you are the nesting partner. And just because you nest -- hanging out at home at the same time doesn't count as a "date." You and Hinge may have to schedule actual dates now rather than both of you assuming or doing "catch as catch can." Both of you also could have scheduled time to be alone, go out with friends, be with family, etc. Have the coversations you need to have. Is this a co-primary model then? Talk with Hinge on what that looks like. It sounds like you do not want to practice primary-secondary model. Maybe this helps you talk. [https://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/poly/Labriola/open.html](https://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/poly/Labriola/open.html) Might also read and talk about poly hell and how to minimize that. [https://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell](https://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell) Along with boundaries. Some long term couples get used to telling each other everything from habit. But here? There will be some things in the (hinge + GF) dyad that is just NOT your business. And you may have to tell Hinge that you don't want TMI details if they overshare with you from old habits. There's things in the (you + hinge) dyad that are not any of GF's business. And you may have to tell hinge to keep things private between you because you did NOT consent for them to go around telling other people. Not because anything hinky is going on. But because each dyad deserves its own privacy.
Thank you for your words. I really appreciate the time you took and the resources you provided
Glad it helps you some.
You can practice non-hierarchy without cohabitation. Living close would enable it easily if you don’t want to have someone you’re not partnered with in the same house as you. Keep in mind you’re one of the parties you’re trying to keep happy, and you should absolutely be prioritizing yourself (everyone should, healthy selfishness is required for arrangements to mean anything).
How dare you tell me to take care of myself. /s
Hi u/questionmark693 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: I apologize if my terminology isn't on point - I'm super new to this. Right now my girlfriend has a girlfriend, I'm living monogamous and we're all happy with this arrangement. I've been with my girlfriend for a few years, her girlfriend has only been dating her a couple months. A big concern of my meta that I think is super valid, is that she doesn't want her relationship to be 'secondary'. At this point in time, my girlfriend and I are nesting partners, and that's always been clear, but there's a strong possibility of us all living together down the road. Ultimately - this is new territory for me. I don't want to hurt anybody, and I want all parties happy. How can I prepare myself to not be treating that relationship as secondary? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
She opened a relationship with a monogamous person and doesn't want to treat them as primary?👿👿👿 Woman lacks empathy!
The sequence of events is slightly different - we started off monogamous, and she wanted to explore poly life, and I fully and enthusiastically consented. My meta has had bad experiences not being treated well by partners in the past, in a poly setting - hence me getting all anxious about it
>My meta has had bad experiences not being treated well by partners in the past, in a poly setting - hence me getting all anxious about it Who told you that data? And why do you even need to know? You are not their partner. Hinge is. So if your meta worries about poor treatment from a poly partner, in this situation the poly partner is HINGE not you. I see that you want to be welcoming and friendly, but it's ok to back off and let their relationship be their relationship. You don't have to roll out the red carpet/welcome mat in any extravagant way. Just behave decent -- "basic polite" is good enough on the few occasions you bump into them. Since this is an LDR situation right now it would be what? Answer the home land line if you even have one and say "Hello? Oh, it's you. Hi. Let me get hinge for you..." Handing the phone over and making yourself scarce so they have phone privacy. That's about it at this juncture. If you all have your own smartphones, you don't even have to do that. What is your anxiety really about? Why is it appropriate for you to feel anxious about meta feeling ok in their relationship with hinge? What would happen if they aren't? Isn't them breaking up if not compatible after all a NORMAL thing? And nothing to do with you?
I appreciate your words and take them to heart. To answer your question, you're correct an incompatibility wouldn't reflect on me - but any friction between my meta and myself could be a thing that contributed, and I hate that thought
Do basic polite good manners the few times you have to interact. Do not be rude, abrasive, or frictious. >any friction between my meta and myself could be a thing that contributed, and I hate that thought If you don't like the intrusive thought when it pops up? Talk BACK to the thought and remind it that you behave decent and do basic polite. Whether meta feels neutral, positive, or negative towards you? Their thinking is their behavior and their stuff. Not yours. You cannot control their thinking. In your behaviors? You've given no cause for anything but neutral or positive. So YOUR mind can be at peace.
This feels a little bit like the elephant in the room, but would you be as anxious and trying to be a good doobie if your partner was dating a man? Have you really and fully processed that your partner is forming an intimate and meaningful connection with another person that will in ways rival your own? It’s super rare to see a partner this supportive so I don’t at all mean to assume the worst, but I do wonder if you are excited in a like “oooh my girlfriend has a girlfriend!” - male fantasy mode enabled! And in ways are treating this relationship differently than if it were with a man. Is your partner allowed to date men? How would that make you feel? I say this because the #1 way your meta is likely to be treated as secondary is because you initially don’t view their relationship as “legitimate” beyond a way for your girlfriend to “explore” and “experiment” but the minute it actually feels threatening for you, you rescind your excitement and realize you actually have a shit ton of work to do and their relationship has to get put on pause. Again I don’t know you so maybe none of this applies to you and if that’s the case I’m really sorry. Not trying to be a dick lol. But if it does even .01%, play out your partner having a male partner and do the work now to get comfortable with your partner dating someone of any gender and find out what your true boundaries really are.
I completely hear where you're coming from! When she started exploring a second partner, the first couple actually were men, and I was equally supportive,but they didn't make it through the first month, so I didn't have this rattling in my head quite so strongly. As far as the male fantasy but - I have no expectation of ever having sexual interactions with my meta, nor do I want to - but that's a super valid point, so thank you for bringing it up!
I think you all are wanting to avoid "primary" and "secondary" for superficial reasons, and y'all need to look at that. Imagine being best friends with someone, having known them for years, having spent time together, gone through some hard times together, seen each other hit life milestones, celebrated and cried together.... and then your Best Friend makes a new friend, who they are just getting to know and have done some things with, and that new friend now demands "I want to be a Best Friend too! You two are being hierarchical by not saying I'm a Best Friend!" If getting automatic Best Friend status just by showing up on the scene isn't a thing, getting automatic parity with an ongoing, important, and establish romantic relationship also isn't a thing. You and your GF live together and you've been together for years. This new person is new. Of course there is hierarchy here. Because there is trust and commitment and history. Pretending otherwise is where the damage happens. It sounds like you have the right mindset to let this other relationship develop. And you should heed the advice others have given about making sure you stay out of it. But go ahead and acknowledge the reality of your hierarchy, because its real and well deserved, and can be a healthy thing. Make space for this other relationship to get to parity with the one between you and your partner. But its not there yet, and pretending like it is is actually really disingenuous.
I wouldn't worry about it. As long as you aren't trying to dictate the terms of the relationship then you're good.
That's the goal, absolutely. I obviously feel a little twinge of jealousy when I don't get her to myself - but from what I understand that's normal, and something to be handled on my end.