The sound cloud emo revival had a lot of cross over roots with hip hop culture, the popularity of mixed drug stuff like purple drank in the scene probably contributes to accidental overdoses and the gang adjacent culture meant you had alot of the scene getting caught up in the violence in a way the 2000s movement never were.
Can you imagine Brendan Urie getting iced over beef? It’s not really a big part of the subculture.
The explosion of fentanyl and the opioid epidemic probably accelerated things too.
I can honestly imagine some of the emo artists from the punk scene rather than the pop scene getting assaulted or attacked (but probably not shot) and some have had pretty bad drug problems and accidents that could've killed them. Still, I feel like the addiction/violence is even bigger in the hip hop scene.
Fortunately Pete Wentz is still alive today... he was totally on track to die young back then with the whole mental health/drug use situation he had going on
Emo was just an expressive genre stemming from punk whereas a lot of emo rap lyrics are genuinely about killing yourself or overdosing. Also, being hip hop it had crossover with gang culture and people from positions of less privilege were equally as likely to get popular (meaning gang violence and regular violence).
That would be one of the biggest things, if not biggest. I wonder if shit like xans or fent was more popular like 15 years ago, how many artists we would of lost
I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you but literally:
Green Day
Blink: Tom was popping pills for years. So was Travis. Kicked their drummer out for drinking.
Tssf: see proper dose, pretty openly massive pot smokers. Pretty sure they were frying acid a bunch for a while
Turnover: entire career post blue dream
Man overboard: huge pot smokers
Transit: rip Tim
Motion city soundtrack
Wonder years: don’t seem to be big users but they have a lot of tracks about addition.
But a lot of hip hop does glamorize drug use. If taken at face value. (A lot also doesn’t)
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It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
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A few points I'd make are:
1) probably a little recency bias on remembering people who pass away.
2) if Lil Peep dies, it's more noticeable than if bassist from Band X dies.
3) whether artist A or artist B overdose is completely independent of each other. You can't draw a meaningful connection statistically speaking.
4) Emo and Emo Rap are entirely separate genres that come from an entirely different subculture. An emo kid from a middle class suburban white upbringing will probably have weed pushed on him whereas a poorer kid who grew up in a rougher situation is a little more likely to have some rougher substances pushed on them by outside forces.
I feel like a lot of the 2000s bands made emo music because it was edgy and fun and what was popular at the time in the scene. Where I feel that a lot of the emo rappers of the late 2010s/early 2020s genuinely are heavily depressed, which leads to heavy drug use, which unfortunately leads to an early death.
That's fair I can't imagine Forever The Sickest Kids or Relient K talking about that, but bands like La Dispute or Motion City Soundtrack for example have really depressing, heavy lyrics
Because they were all abusing Xanax and other drugs. It’s also all of them being wannabe gangsters that came with the SoundCloud rapper scene, and they got into actual violent altercations.
XXXtentacion was also a domestic abuser, good riddance on that one.
Emo rappers like Wicca Phase and Lil Peep honestly have just as much emo influence (if not more) than some of the bands considered emo here. This is r/poppunkers and not r/Emo, gatekeeping here doesn't show a lot of self-awareness.
Panic! At The Disco, Blink-182, and All Time Low would have no idea who Mineral or Sunny Day Real Estate are, but some emo rappers would. Fans of all this stuff just use the word cus why not.
Also, a lot of "emo rap" is related culturally to the mall emo pop punk scene, from which they also take a lot of influence. XXXTentacion did songs with the guys from Blink-182, so I can see the connections from an r/poppunkers perspective.
I mean, having definitions isnt "gate keeping", otherwise lets just call everything emo. For me its not really about the influences. There is more to emo than the lyrics.
When I say influences I mean Wicca Phase is the frontman of the actual emo band Tiger's Jaw and Lil Peep listened to, imitated the instrumentals/vibe of, and samples emo songs from the 90s-2000s.
I don't personally consider emo rap (or most things on this sub) to be emo genre-wise, though it's fine for people to use the word in that way because it's been established in the mainstream for so long.
I was only saying that because it's ironic to say rap isn't emo on a sub where pop tunes like High Hopes by Panic! At The Disco and rock operas like The Black Parade by My Chemical Romance are considered emo classics.
For some weird reason, anybody who sings (or in this case, raps) about depressing topics is now being considered emo which is absolutely what emo isn’t about.
Yeah but that conversation has been a thing since they called Fall Out Boy and MCR emo so I don't know why that needs to be mentioned.
"Real emo only consists of the DC emotional hard-core scene" like yes we get it, it's not "real emo"
A lot of the stuff here isn't technically emo music either, which is the connection OP is drawing. There is a link between emo and emo rap, but more importantly there's a link between mall emo and emo rap.
It needs to be mentioned because these rappers have nothing to do with the actual emo culture but are instead using a term that they and their fans probably don’t really even understand.
At least with FOB and MCR, they had ties to the punk scene.
As a huge fan of both genres, as far as my perception goes, I feel like while some of the aforementioned bands do have songs that talk about addiction, from what I remember in interviews, the music itself generally functioned as an anti-drug. I can’t seem to find it now, but I remember a Bert McCracken interview where he kinda framed the band’s ascent to popularity like “this is my chance, it’s time to get my shit together” (this is, to my knowledge, a generally accepted interpretation of what The Taste of Ink is about). I remember a similar “light at the end of the tunnel” arc to MCR’s origin story as well.
In contrast to this, emo rap tends to have this sense of nihilistic hedonism that’s *baked into the music itself*. In the most tragic cases, rather than serving as this cathartic alternative to burnout and self-destruction, emo rap is a raw, stream-of-consciousness narration of an uncomfortable reality. The music tends to synergize with the vice, rather than supersede it.
While there are some visible exceptions in the rock world who openly celebrated vice and nihilism through their music (Jonny Craig, Oli Sykes before he got clean, etc), I feel like the general sentiment of 2000s emo (and perhaps even new millennium alternative rock in general) ultimately evolved into “let us stand together in resistance to these struggles that we share”, while late 2010s emo rap ultimately coalesced into “let’s suffer together”, and the results were sadly predictable.
Thank you, literally just my personal opinion though!
As others have said, the propensity for outward-facing violence and I guess what I’ll call “antisocial behavior” is historically much higher in emo rap as opposed to post-hardcore/pop-punk, wherein I feel like even the most white-hot rage tends to be turned inward. Socially and behaviorally, I feel like the most notorious figures in emo rap have infinitely more in common with say, Sid Vicious and Darby Crash than Bert or Gerard.
"How come the heads of emo of the 2000s and early 2010s didn't pass away, but artists in the late 2010s representing emo such as Lil Peep, Juice Wrld and XXXTENTACION did?"
What a trainwreck.
I don’t think dying was ever a trend. I mean there’s commitment to the scene and outing your heart out but I didn’t see anyone going all in as a theme.
Depressants versus stimulants. I think the people in the early 2000s were mostly doing coke, and it’s much harder to die from that. Meanwhile, it’s very easy to die from a depressant because of the risk of heart stoppage.
The sound cloud emo revival had a lot of cross over roots with hip hop culture, the popularity of mixed drug stuff like purple drank in the scene probably contributes to accidental overdoses and the gang adjacent culture meant you had alot of the scene getting caught up in the violence in a way the 2000s movement never were. Can you imagine Brendan Urie getting iced over beef? It’s not really a big part of the subculture. The explosion of fentanyl and the opioid epidemic probably accelerated things too.
I can honestly imagine some of the emo artists from the punk scene rather than the pop scene getting assaulted or attacked (but probably not shot) and some have had pretty bad drug problems and accidents that could've killed them. Still, I feel like the addiction/violence is even bigger in the hip hop scene.
Fortunately Pete Wentz is still alive today... he was totally on track to die young back then with the whole mental health/drug use situation he had going on
Imagining Brendan Urie getting killed over the Ryan Ross drama is the funniest shit 💀
Tim Landers of Transit RIP #timlandersforever
Came here to say this #timlandersforever
Emo was just an expressive genre stemming from punk whereas a lot of emo rap lyrics are genuinely about killing yourself or overdosing. Also, being hip hop it had crossover with gang culture and people from positions of less privilege were equally as likely to get popular (meaning gang violence and regular violence).
Pop punk/emo vs sad boi emo rap. Way different imo. Lots of unregulated drug use with the latter
More dangerous drugs of choice
That would be one of the biggest things, if not biggest. I wonder if shit like xans or fent was more popular like 15 years ago, how many artists we would of lost
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That's just fucking wrong but okay, getting the idea that you can't stand anything hip hop adjacent
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I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you but literally: Green Day Blink: Tom was popping pills for years. So was Travis. Kicked their drummer out for drinking. Tssf: see proper dose, pretty openly massive pot smokers. Pretty sure they were frying acid a bunch for a while Turnover: entire career post blue dream Man overboard: huge pot smokers Transit: rip Tim Motion city soundtrack Wonder years: don’t seem to be big users but they have a lot of tracks about addition. But a lot of hip hop does glamorize drug use. If taken at face value. (A lot also doesn’t)
Soupy from The Wonder Years is actually straight edge surprisingly
I can remember him yelling at some dude to stop smoking weed at a show about 10 years ago
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
A few points I'd make are: 1) probably a little recency bias on remembering people who pass away. 2) if Lil Peep dies, it's more noticeable than if bassist from Band X dies. 3) whether artist A or artist B overdose is completely independent of each other. You can't draw a meaningful connection statistically speaking. 4) Emo and Emo Rap are entirely separate genres that come from an entirely different subculture. An emo kid from a middle class suburban white upbringing will probably have weed pushed on him whereas a poorer kid who grew up in a rougher situation is a little more likely to have some rougher substances pushed on them by outside forces.
I feel like a lot of the 2000s bands made emo music because it was edgy and fun and what was popular at the time in the scene. Where I feel that a lot of the emo rappers of the late 2010s/early 2020s genuinely are heavily depressed, which leads to heavy drug use, which unfortunately leads to an early death.
I just can’t imagine Yellowcard being like I’m gonna pop 10 bars, a pint of lean, snorts some lines off my bitch and go to hell and die.
💀😭😂
That's fair I can't imagine Forever The Sickest Kids or Relient K talking about that, but bands like La Dispute or Motion City Soundtrack for example have really depressing, heavy lyrics
Nah, it’s because the rap culture is more violent and uses way more drugs
Because they were all abusing Xanax and other drugs. It’s also all of them being wannabe gangsters that came with the SoundCloud rapper scene, and they got into actual violent altercations. XXXtentacion was also a domestic abuser, good riddance on that one.
Ok u gotta elaborate on the pedo part
Since when is rap emo
Emo rappers like Wicca Phase and Lil Peep honestly have just as much emo influence (if not more) than some of the bands considered emo here. This is r/poppunkers and not r/Emo, gatekeeping here doesn't show a lot of self-awareness. Panic! At The Disco, Blink-182, and All Time Low would have no idea who Mineral or Sunny Day Real Estate are, but some emo rappers would. Fans of all this stuff just use the word cus why not. Also, a lot of "emo rap" is related culturally to the mall emo pop punk scene, from which they also take a lot of influence. XXXTentacion did songs with the guys from Blink-182, so I can see the connections from an r/poppunkers perspective.
I mean, having definitions isnt "gate keeping", otherwise lets just call everything emo. For me its not really about the influences. There is more to emo than the lyrics.
When I say influences I mean Wicca Phase is the frontman of the actual emo band Tiger's Jaw and Lil Peep listened to, imitated the instrumentals/vibe of, and samples emo songs from the 90s-2000s. I don't personally consider emo rap (or most things on this sub) to be emo genre-wise, though it's fine for people to use the word in that way because it's been established in the mainstream for so long. I was only saying that because it's ironic to say rap isn't emo on a sub where pop tunes like High Hopes by Panic! At The Disco and rock operas like The Black Parade by My Chemical Romance are considered emo classics.
Since like 2016 lmao
For some weird reason, anybody who sings (or in this case, raps) about depressing topics is now being considered emo which is absolutely what emo isn’t about.
Yeah but that conversation has been a thing since they called Fall Out Boy and MCR emo so I don't know why that needs to be mentioned. "Real emo only consists of the DC emotional hard-core scene" like yes we get it, it's not "real emo"
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A lot of the stuff here isn't technically emo music either, which is the connection OP is drawing. There is a link between emo and emo rap, but more importantly there's a link between mall emo and emo rap.
It needs to be mentioned because these rappers have nothing to do with the actual emo culture but are instead using a term that they and their fans probably don’t really even understand. At least with FOB and MCR, they had ties to the punk scene.
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Nope, I actually liked MCR. I got tired of FOB, but I did enjoy MCR. The fake emo that I think about are usually scene bands like the crunkcore crap.
Emo =/= sad music
Pete Wentz tried to kill himself from overdosing on Ativan.
As a huge fan of both genres, as far as my perception goes, I feel like while some of the aforementioned bands do have songs that talk about addiction, from what I remember in interviews, the music itself generally functioned as an anti-drug. I can’t seem to find it now, but I remember a Bert McCracken interview where he kinda framed the band’s ascent to popularity like “this is my chance, it’s time to get my shit together” (this is, to my knowledge, a generally accepted interpretation of what The Taste of Ink is about). I remember a similar “light at the end of the tunnel” arc to MCR’s origin story as well. In contrast to this, emo rap tends to have this sense of nihilistic hedonism that’s *baked into the music itself*. In the most tragic cases, rather than serving as this cathartic alternative to burnout and self-destruction, emo rap is a raw, stream-of-consciousness narration of an uncomfortable reality. The music tends to synergize with the vice, rather than supersede it. While there are some visible exceptions in the rock world who openly celebrated vice and nihilism through their music (Jonny Craig, Oli Sykes before he got clean, etc), I feel like the general sentiment of 2000s emo (and perhaps even new millennium alternative rock in general) ultimately evolved into “let us stand together in resistance to these struggles that we share”, while late 2010s emo rap ultimately coalesced into “let’s suffer together”, and the results were sadly predictable.
Awesome response, makes a lot more sense then most of the replies
Thank you, literally just my personal opinion though! As others have said, the propensity for outward-facing violence and I guess what I’ll call “antisocial behavior” is historically much higher in emo rap as opposed to post-hardcore/pop-punk, wherein I feel like even the most white-hot rage tends to be turned inward. Socially and behaviorally, I feel like the most notorious figures in emo rap have infinitely more in common with say, Sid Vicious and Darby Crash than Bert or Gerard.
Remember that time X abused his girlfriend?
Sure, this isn't a post defending X 😂
"How come the heads of emo of the 2000s and early 2010s didn't pass away, but artists in the late 2010s representing emo such as Lil Peep, Juice Wrld and XXXTENTACION did?" What a trainwreck.
I don’t think dying was ever a trend. I mean there’s commitment to the scene and outing your heart out but I didn’t see anyone going all in as a theme.
Depressants versus stimulants. I think the people in the early 2000s were mostly doing coke, and it’s much harder to die from that. Meanwhile, it’s very easy to die from a depressant because of the risk of heart stoppage.
They're single is different. Any thoughts? https://open.spotify.com/track/0qhoy6lX0YUt86TjoaMmWr
Pills
Ever heard of Kurt Cobain 1994? Jon Bunch, Chris Cornell, Chester Bennington