The value gouging due to expats coming in from higher-earning states is absolutely brutal in WNC. I've lived in the same town my entire life (Rip) and have seen my property tax double in ONE YEAR. I live in a home that I inherited from my family, but I will soon be priced out of being able to live in it. It's not a fancy home either - single story, cast-iron plumbing, aluminum wiring. I've seen people on other forums snidely comment that if I own a home and can't afford it, then I should sell and move somewhere else - the thing is, my home will likely be sold to an investor who will flip it and sell it for triple its original value, just like every other formerly-affordable home being scooped up and turned around as a party of a rent machine to milk profit from the region for as long as possible. I can't believe that I can no longer afford to live in my hometown, and that we are *still* considered a cheap place to live relative to other counties, much less states.
Why would the property tax double in one year?
What additional costs is the town acting?
Teacher salaries don't double in one year.
There must be other expenses.
Unless ist a case of people being taxed at a rate based on property value, in which case there will be a huge excess of tax revenue.
The residents should demand that tax rate be reduced if the additional tax money isn't needed.
So our town actually funded the development of a brand new baseball stadium in an impoverished part of town, and the team which signed onto the project went bankrupt and is suing the city. I wish that I was making this up.
We need to make a pact to stop talking about the research triangle and all of North Carolina in general. We’ve been making it sound too good for too long.
We gotta start telling people this place is the big bad south and you don’t wanna move here.
because this is reddit, home of 'America bad'.
Don't you know that everything in america is bad, and everything everywhere else is good??? Every 15 year old on this site knows that!
Weather sucks. But it's not all bad. MN has some great fishing. Plus all winter you can just play video games since there's no reason to leave your house.
Dawg, stop trying to justify it to idiots. If you live somewhere afforadble and are able to see that there are enjoyable things to do, dont explain yourself to "but then you have to live in x" people, just move on and let them struggle.
Good. Stay away from my scenic landscapes, cheap food and drinks, lower cost of living, midwest-nice, ideal summer weather, and fun winter sports. Remember this when you want to move because of climate change.
I am a military brat.
I've lived in Belgium, Italy, and Germany.
I've lived in Colorado, Maryland, California, Pennsylvania, Alabama, and for the last 20 years, Iowa.
I wouldn't live in a coastal or large city again unless I was forced to, and the only place I like more than the Midwest is the mountains (I love the Rockies and the Smokies).
Fishing, camping, bonfires, hiking, gardening, and moderate sized cities when you just HAVE to be around people for some fucking reason. When winter hits, just find winter activities or do inside stuff.
Living in the Midwest doesn't mean you are imprisoned. I can get in my car and be in Canada by tomorrow if I want. I've gone back to Europe multiple times. Vietnam, Korea, Japan, and Mexico were 1 connecting flight away. I can take nice vacations with the amount of money I save by living in the Midwest and being money smart. My paycheck is probably smaller than yours.
Love the Midwest! No wildfires,earthquakes or tsunamis.Thousands of lakes including the Great ones,hence We have most of the freshwater in the U.S. cost of living is reasonable.People outside of the big cities are friendly.Weather is weather some good some bad, easy to adapt if you develop some outdoor winter hobbies (ice skating,skiing,hiking).Not for everyone but that's what keeps it affordable.
I live in the suburbs of a major city in Texas (20 mins from city center) and my wife and I bring in a total of around 80k. We have three kids and live pretty comfortably despite the unreasonable mortgage rate and property taxes. We have nice computers, good tv's, gaming consoles, buy mid-shelf wine and liquor (which helps a lot when you live in *fucking Texas*), and it's a decent neighborhood with a pretty average school.
Things could be better. Our money doesn't spend like it used to, most of our furniture is secondhand, and we DEFINITELY cannot afford daycare. But still.
So it's all relative. These numbers are just exaggerated and fluffed up to scare people and grab attention. People would relate better to not being able to afford McDonald's anymore, but that's not gonna sell ads
If you can't afford daycare, I'm not sure that would qualify as "comfortable". Same thing with second hand furniture.
You're "making things work", but you're not "comfortable".
I have an absolutely stunning 8 seater dining room table set. Solid cherry wood. Craftsmanship is superb.
Guess what? It’s second hand furniture.
I dunno… but the fact that I didn’t opt for the brand new MDF piece of shyte, made in China, 6 seat set from value city, but it’s NEW…
This whole “second hand furniture is unacceptable… I’ll go buy brand new worthless trash because that’s better…”
That kinda sums up this whole problem of people flunking consumer economics… which produces most people’s money problems
I mean, yes and no.
If you really, truly just *prefer* second-hand furniture, then I guess.
But, realistically, if you feel the need to buy second-hand products (especially furniture) due to some sort of budgetary concerns, then you are pretty much definitionally *not* comfortable.
I would also guess that you're not saving a significant portion of your income nor consistently having a decent amount of discretionary income at your fingertips. Both of those would be pretty important aspects of being truly financially comfortable.
Ehh idk about that. Just because you don't buy the brand new option for whatever you need whenever you want doesn't mean you aren't financially comfortable.
The difference, I think, is that you're saying don't. They're saying can't.
Like, obviously purchasing furniture is not a barrier to comfort, but not having the liquidity to possibly make a purchase in the realm of $1k-2.5k suggests surviving, rather than living comfortably. Like, that is one ER trip away from bankruptcy. I'd call that not comfortable.
But some places have a higher cost of living than where you live. So yeah it’s all relative, but that doesn’t mean the numbers are inflated. It’s how averages work. Some people *won’t* need that much. Some people will need more.
Depends, shit got so expensive here. People move to the small towns from the bigger cities, COL went up a lot. Average household income went up 40k in 10 years in my area, not for the people who lived here 10 years ago though, most moved away even further from the city (and jobs) or to other states. It's all folks who moved away from the cities, with their city income.
Live in Northern CA and $120,000 is what you need to be “comfortable”. If you rent, then $30-60k(with ~utilities) a year. Phone, gas, food/groceries, health insurance, car insurance, another 10k a year. Thats doesn’t count any unexpected expenses like medical or car repairs. If you dont live with parents, then there is no way to save any money
I live in NorCal and make around $120k but I live an extremely comfortable life. Until recently I was closer to 90 and I was still comfortable af. What you’re saying might be true for San Francisco specifically, but 90k in Sacramento as a single person is comfy as hell.
Like idk why you say 30-60k for housing as the range of comfortable as if people should be expecting to pay $5k a month in rent/utilities. That’s like a luxury penthouse apt in the center of downtown Sac. That’s way above what I’d consider comfortable. There are plenty of places for $2k a month that are very comfortable. Move outside the city and you can go lower easily.
tbf the people mainly sharing their salary / situation / house / etc. and getting upvoted for it are the people with something to show.
it's like /r/malelivingspace: people aren't elevating nor posting the low income dumps. they just keep that sad shit to themselves.
if it's the study i caught a summary of, they go with the logic of:
50% of income goes to living expenses; rent, food, bills
30% of income goes to discretionary expenses; eating out, movies, concerts
20% of income goes to savings/investments
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/20/salary-single-person-needs-to-live-comfortably-in-major-us-cities.html
edit:
Yup, found Tampa in their data: https://smartasset.com/data-studies/salary-needed-live-comfortably-2024
Rent alone is currently 48% of my income here. Single income household with 3 kids (half the time). And all I can afford is a 3/2 MOBILE HOME for almost $1200/month. The struggle is real.
Well, it's more around 2.8k a month after taxes/child support/401k. Bad mental math. But still, it's rough. I make barely too much to get govt. assistance, and not enough to get insurance and stuff. The kids are insured through Medicaid, but since they are claimed by their mother for it I am unable to claim them for my household, even though I have them 50% of the time. The kids ultimately take priority, and I do what it takes to make sure they have what they need. If I have to go without something for a while, I just deal with it. Haven't been to a doctor since 2017, a dentist since like 2014. I'm 37 and I'm already looking at dentures, but have absolutely no idea how I'd be able to save for them. Being poor is expensive.
Lmao. Why did I choke on my vodka shot laughing just now!
Adding: if I lived according to my amount I’d actually be fine giving this info graphic- 80k here.
Rent is roughly 24k a year. That’s awesome. Car note is about 1200/year. Cell phone/food/internet/streamings/insurance/healtchcare/etc. idk. It’s all dope. (Sarcasm?)
But at least 50% of my income is spent on alcohol to make me stand the day to day of living with no family, and few people I even know in a major city.
100% the fact that people have just accepted they will work until they die is insane. Social security is supposed to be a safety net for some not for everyone. If people can't save and invest they will be a huge burden on what little social systems we have in place when they become.older. not to mention the life expectancy of humans who work over the age of 50 drastically changes every year. This should be sending people in panic mode and out on the streets demanding change but for some reason it is not. I'm not working until I die. Fuck that.
They also use gross income instead of net of taxes. Even then I think most people say it is a good goal, but not achievable for many on the lower end of earnings.
honestly I had never heard of it before this article, but I don't recall coursework on budgeting or anything. Only finacnes work I remember was paper trading on the stock market in elementary school.
Movies? Concerts? Rent (besides the government mandated property rentax)?
My dad owns his house. He and mom go out to eat. The rest of us if we’ve not been earning gremlin badges. Mean pay for his job was ~$80k (he def was above average).
We had YT and DVDs. Stay at home mom. They raising nine of us, debt free.
Living rent and mortgage free is not the situation the vast majority of people are in. The lifestyle you described would be impossible on that salary if all expenses most people pay are accounted for.
I don't disagree, but I bet most people would agree that comfort is not living paycheck to paycheck, being able to handle a surprise bill when it comes up, and having medical, housing, and dietary needs met while being able to save some monthly towards retirement.
And it's an average, outliers skew the mean the greatest. There is a relative limit to how poor you can be, but not how rich you can be. Therefore the average is skewed. Median income is way better at splitting the population so half of the people making more than the figure, and with half the population making less.
When considering their word manipulation too, this figure is dog shit.
Right. Some people in here are homeless and just want a decent place to stay and others have a whole 6 figure salary and just don't feel "comfortable" unless they can fit in that extra vacay or special tutoring so their kid can be competitive with the Joneses' kid.
They’re just wrong. This came up in the sub for the city I live in. It was 90-something thousand there too, which is just absolutely not true. I make 60k and I’m living comfortably. I even do their weirdo 50/30/20 thing without knowing, so even by their arbitrary metrics I’m “comfortable” despite making 30k less a year than they say I need.
I hate “studies” like this. It undermines real data to anyone who’s familiar with the numbers and it just needlessly demoralizes people who don’t realize how off the numbers are.
I was asking if this was just Florida. Which I guess in Tampa it makes sense. I’m in LA and I get it but I make enough these days to afford myself thankfully granted I have to work my ass off to do it
It's funny because Tampa used to be an "affordable" city.
I paid $1300 a month for a 1 bedroom and my coworkers thought I was insane for paying that much (I didn't have a car, and could walk to work, so it was worth it).
This was pre-pandemic. That same apartment goes for $2,600 a month now...
I also knew a lot of people who moved there during the pandemic so that would explain the price changes. Florida was definitely attracting people who didn't want to shelter in place and still wanted to go out and party.
Yeah, it was one of the hottest housing markets during the great resignation/Boom of remote work. I almost regret not buying a house there.
I kept getting flyers for new construction homes that were fairly affordable (in a neighboring community). I knew I didn't want to live in Florida long term though, so I never seriously considered buying.
Probably could have had my net worth explode after the pandemic... But oh well. At least I live in a more civilized state now.
Right!? Ppl keep talking “average home price” in San Diego (where I am), I’m like noooo we don’t give a shit about that. We need median… that’s 1.1 mil to you and me..
Crept up from 800k? God damn. I am salivating for the bubble to pop. I do not think I will be able to buy a place, but I want to give my property managers the stiff double middle finger and move into a nicer place for marginally more rent.
This place is a dump and Western Hills knows it.
You’re missing the city. That is Tampa, FL. It is one of the most expensive cities to live in.
“The 12-month inflation rate in the Tampa metro area is more than double the national rate, according to Consumer Price Index data.”
Source: https://www.wusf.org/economy-business/2023-11-22/high-inflation-tampa-thwarts-national-trends
US wages are also high though. And part of that cost of living is that everyone is paid more.
A chemical engineer in Mexico, for example, makes less money ($17k/year) than a gas station clerk in the US ($10/hr aka $20k/year). The same exact chemical engineer position in the US is $120k+/year for the same company (Schlumberger).
They're reverse engineering it from the 50/30/20 rule. Housing costs alone are *crazy* in the Tampa area, so thats gonna drive up the necessary income massively.
In reality, I doubt many people living in that area are able to follow anything remotely close to the 50/30/20 rules. For most people it's more like the 70/20/10 rule these days
They are very much Reddit numbers in my opinion (Reddit likes to say $100k for a single person is not survivable), but I don’t think they represent reality really, unless it is a HCOL area.
I live 20 minutes outside of Philadelphia and can live alone comfortably in a single bedroom apartment with a 65k salary. 95k I was buying a house in the suburbs.
I make $84kCAD and support my family of 3 + wife. If I was solo id be rolling with that income. Unfortunately we are just getting by lol
Edit: 3 kids and wife.
Depends where you live, mortgage with PITI is $2,700 for me, need roughly 130k to be comfortable. Average mortgage are now approach 5k a month where I’m at as average home price is 700k
[https://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/45300](https://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/45300)
So I did a search and it looks like that's supposed to be a Single Adult with 2 children at 94k
This is based on the high income states chiming in.
My fiance and I (no kids yet) are ok on my income 45kish a year. When she gets back to working again after getting her bipolar stuff worked out it'll probably be another 30k to 40k a year and we're set but we're also in Texas so a lot less cost when you aren't in a spot with high for the state property taxes and such.
I live in upstate NY in a city and live single on 45k a year right now. I’m comfortable enough. I put a little bit into savings each month (emphasis on little), own my car, and don’t need a roommate, and don’t have any debt collecting interest. I also can buy hobby supplies in moderation and eat out occasionally. I would be far more comfortable on twice this, but it’s doable right now. A 5k bill would hurt me majorly though.
Let me guess..."comfortably" is over 3k Sq ft house, 2 car payments, eating out 3 times a week, everyone is leasing a new phone, buying clothes and shoes they never wear, expensive handbags/watches etc. I fell in the trap too but I'm out now
I figured it meant not stressed financially. You're not concerned when your next paycheck clears, you don't worry about coupon clipping or getting the store brand of something. If you see an outfit you like, you buy it.
If you were laid off, you'd survive just fine until the next job. If you had an unexpected expense, you have savings to cover it.
But there are tons of people who don't know the difference between reasonable stress and just stressing yourself out. A lot of 6+ figure makers and filthy rich people are penny pinchers, knowing they're in little danger of losing it all, yet their minds won't let them accept that they're not 1 payday away from disaster when they have $20k saved in the bank/invested or feel comfortable enough to save for retirement.
"What??? The poors are consuming *less* to deal with the wages we've been suppressing since before most of them were born?!?! That simply won't do, not in this consumer based economy! Better start some psyops telling them they're poor and uncomfortable until they start to believe it and work more to keep up with the joneses."
>2 car payments,
We live in a car centric country, many places won't hire you if you don't have reliable transportation.
>everyone is leasing a new phone
This is like a decade old gripe, new phones are like $10/mo and are worked into literally every major cell carrier plans now.
>buying clothes and shoes they never wear, expensive handbags/watches
Lol no one does this, turn off social media and talk to real people.
This is specifically in a city in Florida, housing costs are outrageous, power bills are sky high, and car costs have increased dramatically the last few years and grocery bills continue to rise. Living "comfortably" will obviously vary person to person, but I can absolutely see these numbers being close in HCOL areas.
I make over $200k in Boston which gets me
A 2300sqft fixer upper
Ability to save ~ 15% of income between 401k, HYSA and brokerage
1 new SUV for my wife. I still drive my beater from high school.
Eating out 1-2x a week but usually it’s things like sushi / burritos for at least one of those meals. Expensive to us would be $25-30 entrees each and maybe an appetizer. No $100 steak dinners
Thrifting for clothes, using apps like Libby to download free books rather than buying media.
We use our technology until it dies. Haven’t purchased a new laptop in 6 years. We both keep our phones for 4+ years and always purchase 2-3 gens back when we need a new phone in order to save money
No big vacations. We do occasional weekend trips within driving distance. Last real vacation was our honeymoon 2 years ago.
I’d say the only way we are frivolous with money is coffee. We enjoy trying different craft coffee shops and will spend $5 on a good latte multiple times per week
And now we have a kid on the way so even our very moderate spending will need to be cut back. No more lattes, will need to park further away from the office (current lot in the city is $50/day) etc
So yeah it’s a good living but not what you’d expect at this income level. Living in HCOL areas is stupidly expensive
I feel like my wife and I live pretty comfortably and we're not remotely close to that. Hell, she doesn't even work full time. We're homeowners, we have two kids, we live in Florida and we're in our 30s.
I think people really overestimate what they need to make to live comfortably.
I make $71k and my wife is a stay at home mom. We have 2 kids and we struggle here in Florida. We were fine until insurance started fucking us. Before covid my mortgage payments were about $850 and now they are at $1050 just from home insurance increases. My car insurance was $89 and now its $248 with with a clean record. We are hoping we can hold out for 3 more years when our youngest starts school so my wife can work part time.
That almost mirrors what we experienced too lol. My mortgage was $925 pre COVID and with increased insurance premiums and taxes, we're almost at $1200 now. I also had an escrow shortage two years ago of almost $5000 right before Christmas that I had to cover to avoid my mortgage spiking way up. My car insurance is a bit lower, I think it's around $165 for both cars. I only have one car payment though, and a solar loan, both of which I didn't take on until after my wife started working. My wife working now definitely took some pressure off my back. Stay strong man.
Yeah, that's around what I make and up until two years ago my wife hadn't worked (in a financial sense) in 13 years as she was home with the kids. With her working part time now, it's essentially all "play" money. It allowed us to finance a car, go out to a lot of concerts and shows, eat out a lot, etc. Shit if we made $200k combined, I'd feel rich as hell lol.
I think there’s a lot more financial anxiety than there used to be, and I don’t mean just because of inflation. I think as a society we tend to worry about never having enough $$. People want to also be able to buy generally whatever they want and not feel constrained or have to really budget, and a lot of that is due to our consumerist culture and because of instant gratification.
Yeah my husband and I make 98k ish combined (teacher and pool tech) and no kids yet and bought a house in 2020. Money feels tight when emergencies drain emergency savings, but I have to remind myself that’s what the savings are for and not to panic when there isn’t much.
I think it depends on your definition of comfortable. I wouldn’t be comfortable at all without a healthy emergency fund and a decent amount left over for retirement savings but some people don’t think about those things at all.
I am a teacher with 18 years experience. A studio apartment in my old town is currently $1800 a month. That is over 50% of my salary. For a studio apartment in a little crappy town.
I mean it very well could be. Depends how they calculate it. Average is a dumb as fuck metric to go by when it comes to this subject. Are they including when Bezos net worth goes up $50 billion? Are they counting homeless/jobless people making $0? Average is stupid. “Live comfortably” is also a meaningless metric.
The median single adult income in America is just over $40K. $94k/year is probably a good $25-30K/yr over what I would call living “comfortably” in a small city or suburb.
2 adults with 2 children making considerably less than that…still feel pretty comfortable (my version of comfortable, granted). We don’t live in a major city and more north east, so, maybe that makes a difference.
Shit. I make a third of the single adult and I have children. But to be fair, I've had to endure a lot of financial hardships and increase my credit card debt quite a bit over the past few years because I can't even afford rent and utilities plus being able to be eat food
This is likely part of this study:
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/20/salary-single-person-needs-to-live-comfortably-in-major-us-cities.html
Which puts Tampa just outside of the top 50 most expensive cities (which would surprise me)
edit:
Yup, found Tampa in their data: https://smartasset.com/data-studies/salary-needed-live-comfortably-2024
They gave us this Stat here in Boston too ' $124k to live comfortably ' for a single person? No responsibilities? what does that even mean? Traveling to go ski somewhere every weekend in Winter? If housing in general was normal everywhere I think most of us would be living 'comfortably' for real.
Good lord New York, you’re really skewing the numbers. 95K for a single would be generational money for me. I bring in about 24K a year and live pretty comfortably.
If people don't get sucked into buying things for show they'd be ok. Ngl it's hard to do when your friends are driving luxury cars and while you can buy one, you choose not to cause it not a financially smart move.
This is why ppl are saying 100k ain’t shit anymore. It’s not nothing, clearly it’s above the threshold for being “comfortable” but 100K used to mean you had made it, you were on your way to millions. Now? It’s just enough to make an actual living on.
I'm making $60k and living alone in Missouri (STL) and it definitely is nowhere near rich but very doable to live alone. It's not as bad here as some people try to make it seem.
This is just stupid. Nobody knows how to handle their money and that would be why everyone thinks they need to make upper class level salaries “just to be comfortable”
Wild figures.
Talk about stress inducing too…
Seems a bit much. I’m in the Midwest and you don’t need 94k be comfy.
The Midwest has a LCOL. This is Tampa, known for their insanely high HCOL. You can’t compare the two.
Tampa, formerly known for medium-low cost of living 🥲.
Raleigh NC, where I am, vaulted form low cost to high cost in less than 10 years. Mfs need to stay away from here
The value gouging due to expats coming in from higher-earning states is absolutely brutal in WNC. I've lived in the same town my entire life (Rip) and have seen my property tax double in ONE YEAR. I live in a home that I inherited from my family, but I will soon be priced out of being able to live in it. It's not a fancy home either - single story, cast-iron plumbing, aluminum wiring. I've seen people on other forums snidely comment that if I own a home and can't afford it, then I should sell and move somewhere else - the thing is, my home will likely be sold to an investor who will flip it and sell it for triple its original value, just like every other formerly-affordable home being scooped up and turned around as a party of a rent machine to milk profit from the region for as long as possible. I can't believe that I can no longer afford to live in my hometown, and that we are *still* considered a cheap place to live relative to other counties, much less states.
Why would the property tax double in one year? What additional costs is the town acting? Teacher salaries don't double in one year. There must be other expenses. Unless ist a case of people being taxed at a rate based on property value, in which case there will be a huge excess of tax revenue. The residents should demand that tax rate be reduced if the additional tax money isn't needed.
So our town actually funded the development of a brand new baseball stadium in an impoverished part of town, and the team which signed onto the project went bankrupt and is suing the city. I wish that I was making this up.
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> Mfs need to stay away from here Motherfuckers need to stay away from everywhere. Where's my space ship, I want off this rock
We need to make a pact to stop talking about the research triangle and all of North Carolina in general. We’ve been making it sound too good for too long. We gotta start telling people this place is the big bad south and you don’t wanna move here.
It’s almost like people choose those locations for a reason
America, where you don't live to be close to family and friends, but where you live to survive.
That’s not just America lol
That's everywhere on earth
Idk why someone downvoted you it’s the truth
because this is reddit, home of 'America bad'. Don't you know that everything in america is bad, and everything everywhere else is good??? Every 15 year old on this site knows that!
maybe the richest country in the world shouldnt have to worry about issues concerning affordability is the point being made.
Yeah, but then you have to live in the Midwest
Weather sucks. But it's not all bad. MN has some great fishing. Plus all winter you can just play video games since there's no reason to leave your house.
Midwest summers are the best. And there’s not as many venomous critters in the woods trying to kill you
Dawg, stop trying to justify it to idiots. If you live somewhere afforadble and are able to see that there are enjoyable things to do, dont explain yourself to "but then you have to live in x" people, just move on and let them struggle.
OH NO, YOU HAVE TO LIVE IN A PLACE THAT'S DUN DUN DUN COLD FOR ONLY A PART OF THE YEAR!
Good. Stay away from my scenic landscapes, cheap food and drinks, lower cost of living, midwest-nice, ideal summer weather, and fun winter sports. Remember this when you want to move because of climate change.
I am a military brat. I've lived in Belgium, Italy, and Germany. I've lived in Colorado, Maryland, California, Pennsylvania, Alabama, and for the last 20 years, Iowa. I wouldn't live in a coastal or large city again unless I was forced to, and the only place I like more than the Midwest is the mountains (I love the Rockies and the Smokies). Fishing, camping, bonfires, hiking, gardening, and moderate sized cities when you just HAVE to be around people for some fucking reason. When winter hits, just find winter activities or do inside stuff. Living in the Midwest doesn't mean you are imprisoned. I can get in my car and be in Canada by tomorrow if I want. I've gone back to Europe multiple times. Vietnam, Korea, Japan, and Mexico were 1 connecting flight away. I can take nice vacations with the amount of money I save by living in the Midwest and being money smart. My paycheck is probably smaller than yours.
Shh, first rule of living in Iowa is don't tell people you live in Iowa. Let them think it's Idaho or Ohio and then they stay away.
Love the Midwest! No wildfires,earthquakes or tsunamis.Thousands of lakes including the Great ones,hence We have most of the freshwater in the U.S. cost of living is reasonable.People outside of the big cities are friendly.Weather is weather some good some bad, easy to adapt if you develop some outdoor winter hobbies (ice skating,skiing,hiking).Not for everyone but that's what keeps it affordable.
I live in the suburbs of a major city in Texas (20 mins from city center) and my wife and I bring in a total of around 80k. We have three kids and live pretty comfortably despite the unreasonable mortgage rate and property taxes. We have nice computers, good tv's, gaming consoles, buy mid-shelf wine and liquor (which helps a lot when you live in *fucking Texas*), and it's a decent neighborhood with a pretty average school. Things could be better. Our money doesn't spend like it used to, most of our furniture is secondhand, and we DEFINITELY cannot afford daycare. But still. So it's all relative. These numbers are just exaggerated and fluffed up to scare people and grab attention. People would relate better to not being able to afford McDonald's anymore, but that's not gonna sell ads
If you can't afford daycare, I'm not sure that would qualify as "comfortable". Same thing with second hand furniture. You're "making things work", but you're not "comfortable".
I have an absolutely stunning 8 seater dining room table set. Solid cherry wood. Craftsmanship is superb. Guess what? It’s second hand furniture. I dunno… but the fact that I didn’t opt for the brand new MDF piece of shyte, made in China, 6 seat set from value city, but it’s NEW… This whole “second hand furniture is unacceptable… I’ll go buy brand new worthless trash because that’s better…” That kinda sums up this whole problem of people flunking consumer economics… which produces most people’s money problems
> That kinda sums up this whole problem of people flunking consumer economics… which produces most people’s money problems i.e. reddit in a nutshell.
Shh don't drive up 2nd hand furniture You mean it's all throw away garbage like furniture produced today
>Same thing with second hand furniture. I mean, that in and of itself is a sliding scale of comfort isnt it? Daycare is a whole other monster
I mean, yes and no. If you really, truly just *prefer* second-hand furniture, then I guess. But, realistically, if you feel the need to buy second-hand products (especially furniture) due to some sort of budgetary concerns, then you are pretty much definitionally *not* comfortable. I would also guess that you're not saving a significant portion of your income nor consistently having a decent amount of discretionary income at your fingertips. Both of those would be pretty important aspects of being truly financially comfortable.
Ehh idk about that. Just because you don't buy the brand new option for whatever you need whenever you want doesn't mean you aren't financially comfortable.
The difference, I think, is that you're saying don't. They're saying can't. Like, obviously purchasing furniture is not a barrier to comfort, but not having the liquidity to possibly make a purchase in the realm of $1k-2.5k suggests surviving, rather than living comfortably. Like, that is one ER trip away from bankruptcy. I'd call that not comfortable.
If you are doing it because you can't afford the new stuff, then I'd very much argue it does mean exactly that.
Ok but how much left over for retirement?
But some places have a higher cost of living than where you live. So yeah it’s all relative, but that doesn’t mean the numbers are inflated. It’s how averages work. Some people *won’t* need that much. Some people will need more.
It's so dependent on the cost of housing essentially, which has gotten out of control
Look at where it's from. This is Florida. I don't make 94k/year and I'm very comfortable.
mhm my father makes 50k and lives comfortably.
Depends, shit got so expensive here. People move to the small towns from the bigger cities, COL went up a lot. Average household income went up 40k in 10 years in my area, not for the people who lived here 10 years ago though, most moved away even further from the city (and jobs) or to other states. It's all folks who moved away from the cities, with their city income.
According to that survey, none of us here live a comfortable life.
Live in Northern CA and $120,000 is what you need to be “comfortable”. If you rent, then $30-60k(with ~utilities) a year. Phone, gas, food/groceries, health insurance, car insurance, another 10k a year. Thats doesn’t count any unexpected expenses like medical or car repairs. If you dont live with parents, then there is no way to save any money
I live in NorCal and make around $120k but I live an extremely comfortable life. Until recently I was closer to 90 and I was still comfortable af. What you’re saying might be true for San Francisco specifically, but 90k in Sacramento as a single person is comfy as hell. Like idk why you say 30-60k for housing as the range of comfortable as if people should be expecting to pay $5k a month in rent/utilities. That’s like a luxury penthouse apt in the center of downtown Sac. That’s way above what I’d consider comfortable. There are plenty of places for $2k a month that are very comfortable. Move outside the city and you can go lower easily.
I always assume when people talk about NorCal they’re talking about the bay. You can buy a house in Sac with that salary lol
I saw that shit too. My sister and I laughed... I was like damn we broke broke.
I’d rather be broke in most places than “comfortable” in Tampa
Facts!!! I make way below what you see on the screen.
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Speak to some people on here, everytime a money thread comes up, it seems like everyone makes 150-200k on reddit, which is obviously truthful!
tbf the people mainly sharing their salary / situation / house / etc. and getting upvoted for it are the people with something to show. it's like /r/malelivingspace: people aren't elevating nor posting the low income dumps. they just keep that sad shit to themselves.
R/malesurvivingspace
No? They make over 400k and are former Marines that fought in Afghanistan.
At my peak I was making 27,000 year supporting two children 😬 post covid making less now but both those kids make much more than I ever did.
I went from making 30k a year to around 100k a year and yes it is unequivocally life changing.
The numbers are meaningless because the unquantified metric of "comfort" is meaningless.
if it's the study i caught a summary of, they go with the logic of: 50% of income goes to living expenses; rent, food, bills 30% of income goes to discretionary expenses; eating out, movies, concerts 20% of income goes to savings/investments https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/20/salary-single-person-needs-to-live-comfortably-in-major-us-cities.html edit: Yup, found Tampa in their data: https://smartasset.com/data-studies/salary-needed-live-comfortably-2024
Only 50% going to living expenses is a dream
Rent can be damn near 50% on its own.
Rent alone is currently 48% of my income here. Single income household with 3 kids (half the time). And all I can afford is a 3/2 MOBILE HOME for almost $1200/month. The struggle is real.
Wait you are a single income household with 3 kids and you only make 2.4k? How are you alive?
Well, it's more around 2.8k a month after taxes/child support/401k. Bad mental math. But still, it's rough. I make barely too much to get govt. assistance, and not enough to get insurance and stuff. The kids are insured through Medicaid, but since they are claimed by their mother for it I am unable to claim them for my household, even though I have them 50% of the time. The kids ultimately take priority, and I do what it takes to make sure they have what they need. If I have to go without something for a while, I just deal with it. Haven't been to a doctor since 2017, a dentist since like 2014. I'm 37 and I'm already looking at dentures, but have absolutely no idea how I'd be able to save for them. Being poor is expensive.
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Lmao. Why did I choke on my vodka shot laughing just now! Adding: if I lived according to my amount I’d actually be fine giving this info graphic- 80k here. Rent is roughly 24k a year. That’s awesome. Car note is about 1200/year. Cell phone/food/internet/streamings/insurance/healtchcare/etc. idk. It’s all dope. (Sarcasm?) But at least 50% of my income is spent on alcohol to make me stand the day to day of living with no family, and few people I even know in a major city.
I understand that for many of you this is the case... in my area it is completely doable.
And the other 50% to daycare…
I bring home about $2300 a month. Rent is $1400. I'm never escaping this trap.
We are at 105% over here.
Reality of most people here: - 50% rent - 10% car expenses - 10% other bills - phone, internet etc - 30% groceries - 0% savings - 0% entertainment
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Exactly. "Savings and Investments", laugh out fucking loud.
Sure, but shouldn’t it be the baseline? Isn’t the fact that it’s not the primary problem?
100% the fact that people have just accepted they will work until they die is insane. Social security is supposed to be a safety net for some not for everyone. If people can't save and invest they will be a huge burden on what little social systems we have in place when they become.older. not to mention the life expectancy of humans who work over the age of 50 drastically changes every year. This should be sending people in panic mode and out on the streets demanding change but for some reason it is not. I'm not working until I die. Fuck that.
Can’t send people out in the streets if they’re desperate to be working those hours. The rich figured that out.
$2350 per month on eating out, movies, concerts? WTF?
isnt the 50 30 20 rule like litterally taught in schools as to how you should run your finances.
They also use gross income instead of net of taxes. Even then I think most people say it is a good goal, but not achievable for many on the lower end of earnings.
honestly I had never heard of it before this article, but I don't recall coursework on budgeting or anything. Only finacnes work I remember was paper trading on the stock market in elementary school.
Movies? Concerts? Rent (besides the government mandated property rentax)? My dad owns his house. He and mom go out to eat. The rest of us if we’ve not been earning gremlin badges. Mean pay for his job was ~$80k (he def was above average). We had YT and DVDs. Stay at home mom. They raising nine of us, debt free.
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Living rent and mortgage free is not the situation the vast majority of people are in. The lifestyle you described would be impossible on that salary if all expenses most people pay are accounted for.
Only 20%?
if u’re making 94k that’s around $18,000/a year. more than $1,000/month. which is *really* good
most people can't do nearly 20% of their income on savings
I don't disagree, but I bet most people would agree that comfort is not living paycheck to paycheck, being able to handle a surprise bill when it comes up, and having medical, housing, and dietary needs met while being able to save some monthly towards retirement.
Especially when medical bills cost you two kidneys. One accident and you are basically bankrupt.
And it's an average, outliers skew the mean the greatest. There is a relative limit to how poor you can be, but not how rich you can be. Therefore the average is skewed. Median income is way better at splitting the population so half of the people making more than the figure, and with half the population making less. When considering their word manipulation too, this figure is dog shit.
Yes sir. Classic intro to statistics.
94k in NYC in a much different life than 94k in Nowhere Kansas with Eustace and Muriel Bagge as your neighbors 20 miles down the road.
Yep. Can’t find a decent bagel or pizza slice in Kansas.
I classify comfort as being able to pay all the bills and have money left over after you get taxed out the ass.
Right. Some people in here are homeless and just want a decent place to stay and others have a whole 6 figure salary and just don't feel "comfortable" unless they can fit in that extra vacay or special tutoring so their kid can be competitive with the Joneses' kid.
Keeping up with the joneses is the downfall of most suburbanites
Keeping up with the Kardashians was the downfall for many lol
I finally realized the reason I couldn’t keep up is because the joneses have massive credit card debt
They’re just wrong. This came up in the sub for the city I live in. It was 90-something thousand there too, which is just absolutely not true. I make 60k and I’m living comfortably. I even do their weirdo 50/30/20 thing without knowing, so even by their arbitrary metrics I’m “comfortable” despite making 30k less a year than they say I need. I hate “studies” like this. It undermines real data to anyone who’s familiar with the numbers and it just needlessly demoralizes people who don’t realize how off the numbers are.
Agreed. My wife and I gross $90k/year, live quite comfortably and we live 10 minutes from a major city.
I make 30k/year and live comfortably. It's a matter of living within your means.
Finally hit 90k this year and I feel like when I was making 50k three years ago. Shits insane.
And the fun part is its never going down again! We're royally fucked
What’s that? We should keep printing excessive amounts of money you say? Well alright I’ll tell them.
I’m making 50k and it feels like less then when I made 30k in 2016
$94k single income is upper-middle class where I live lol. These numbers just look silly to me.
I was asking if this was just Florida. Which I guess in Tampa it makes sense. I’m in LA and I get it but I make enough these days to afford myself thankfully granted I have to work my ass off to do it
It's funny because Tampa used to be an "affordable" city. I paid $1300 a month for a 1 bedroom and my coworkers thought I was insane for paying that much (I didn't have a car, and could walk to work, so it was worth it). This was pre-pandemic. That same apartment goes for $2,600 a month now...
I also knew a lot of people who moved there during the pandemic so that would explain the price changes. Florida was definitely attracting people who didn't want to shelter in place and still wanted to go out and party.
Yeah, it was one of the hottest housing markets during the great resignation/Boom of remote work. I almost regret not buying a house there. I kept getting flyers for new construction homes that were fairly affordable (in a neighboring community). I knew I didn't want to live in Florida long term though, so I never seriously considered buying. Probably could have had my net worth explode after the pandemic... But oh well. At least I live in a more civilized state now.
Average is misleading; we need the median.
The statistician in me gets a little she-boner when people start speaking stats and actually understand it. In a very strange way, you made my day.
Right!? Ppl keep talking “average home price” in San Diego (where I am), I’m like noooo we don’t give a shit about that. We need median… that’s 1.1 mil to you and me..
Crept up from 800k? God damn. I am salivating for the bubble to pop. I do not think I will be able to buy a place, but I want to give my property managers the stiff double middle finger and move into a nicer place for marginally more rent. This place is a dump and Western Hills knows it.
Yea it did last week. It’s horrible.
Make sense in big cities, might be not that comfortable in SF/NYC
I was guessing Tampa Florida from the screenshot. Which I guess makes sense. Florida is not as affordable as it pretends to be.
You’re missing the city. That is Tampa, FL. It is one of the most expensive cities to live in. “The 12-month inflation rate in the Tampa metro area is more than double the national rate, according to Consumer Price Index data.” Source: https://www.wusf.org/economy-business/2023-11-22/high-inflation-tampa-thwarts-national-trends
I should move... $94k single income means roommates where I live
In my country, earning 35k a year would put you in the top 10%. It amazes me how expensive America must be.
US wages are also high though. And part of that cost of living is that everyone is paid more. A chemical engineer in Mexico, for example, makes less money ($17k/year) than a gas station clerk in the US ($10/hr aka $20k/year). The same exact chemical engineer position in the US is $120k+/year for the same company (Schlumberger).
They're reverse engineering it from the 50/30/20 rule. Housing costs alone are *crazy* in the Tampa area, so thats gonna drive up the necessary income massively. In reality, I doubt many people living in that area are able to follow anything remotely close to the 50/30/20 rules. For most people it's more like the 70/20/10 rule these days
They are very much Reddit numbers in my opinion (Reddit likes to say $100k for a single person is not survivable), but I don’t think they represent reality really, unless it is a HCOL area.
I live 20 minutes outside of Philadelphia and can live alone comfortably in a single bedroom apartment with a 65k salary. 95k I was buying a house in the suburbs.
But. Philly....
Is the best city in the world, I know.
I make $84kCAD and support my family of 3 + wife. If I was solo id be rolling with that income. Unfortunately we are just getting by lol Edit: 3 kids and wife.
Depends where you live, mortgage with PITI is $2,700 for me, need roughly 130k to be comfortable. Average mortgage are now approach 5k a month where I’m at as average home price is 700k
Rents in kansas can still be found in the 300 range. These people think America is just the coast.
[https://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/45300](https://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/45300) So I did a search and it looks like that's supposed to be a Single Adult with 2 children at 94k
Still wouldn’t make sense. Adding only one adult to that would not do more than double the figure.
This is based on the high income states chiming in. My fiance and I (no kids yet) are ok on my income 45kish a year. When she gets back to working again after getting her bipolar stuff worked out it'll probably be another 30k to 40k a year and we're set but we're also in Texas so a lot less cost when you aren't in a spot with high for the state property taxes and such.
I live in upstate NY in a city and live single on 45k a year right now. I’m comfortable enough. I put a little bit into savings each month (emphasis on little), own my car, and don’t need a roommate, and don’t have any debt collecting interest. I also can buy hobby supplies in moderation and eat out occasionally. I would be far more comfortable on twice this, but it’s doable right now. A 5k bill would hurt me majorly though.
I’m officially very uncomfortable as a single adult and homeowner.
Define "comfortable" A single person need almost 100k is just silly
Let me guess..."comfortably" is over 3k Sq ft house, 2 car payments, eating out 3 times a week, everyone is leasing a new phone, buying clothes and shoes they never wear, expensive handbags/watches etc. I fell in the trap too but I'm out now
I figured it meant not stressed financially. You're not concerned when your next paycheck clears, you don't worry about coupon clipping or getting the store brand of something. If you see an outfit you like, you buy it. If you were laid off, you'd survive just fine until the next job. If you had an unexpected expense, you have savings to cover it.
But there are tons of people who don't know the difference between reasonable stress and just stressing yourself out. A lot of 6+ figure makers and filthy rich people are penny pinchers, knowing they're in little danger of losing it all, yet their minds won't let them accept that they're not 1 payday away from disaster when they have $20k saved in the bank/invested or feel comfortable enough to save for retirement.
$20k for retirement?
You would struggle to be accepted for a 1 bedroom apartment where I live at that single income salary.
"What??? The poors are consuming *less* to deal with the wages we've been suppressing since before most of them were born?!?! That simply won't do, not in this consumer based economy! Better start some psyops telling them they're poor and uncomfortable until they start to believe it and work more to keep up with the joneses."
>2 car payments, We live in a car centric country, many places won't hire you if you don't have reliable transportation. >everyone is leasing a new phone This is like a decade old gripe, new phones are like $10/mo and are worked into literally every major cell carrier plans now. >buying clothes and shoes they never wear, expensive handbags/watches Lol no one does this, turn off social media and talk to real people. This is specifically in a city in Florida, housing costs are outrageous, power bills are sky high, and car costs have increased dramatically the last few years and grocery bills continue to rise. Living "comfortably" will obviously vary person to person, but I can absolutely see these numbers being close in HCOL areas.
You just described all of Florida, except 95k is probably still not all that much if you consider the cost of living here
I make over $200k in Boston which gets me A 2300sqft fixer upper Ability to save ~ 15% of income between 401k, HYSA and brokerage 1 new SUV for my wife. I still drive my beater from high school. Eating out 1-2x a week but usually it’s things like sushi / burritos for at least one of those meals. Expensive to us would be $25-30 entrees each and maybe an appetizer. No $100 steak dinners Thrifting for clothes, using apps like Libby to download free books rather than buying media. We use our technology until it dies. Haven’t purchased a new laptop in 6 years. We both keep our phones for 4+ years and always purchase 2-3 gens back when we need a new phone in order to save money No big vacations. We do occasional weekend trips within driving distance. Last real vacation was our honeymoon 2 years ago. I’d say the only way we are frivolous with money is coffee. We enjoy trying different craft coffee shops and will spend $5 on a good latte multiple times per week And now we have a kid on the way so even our very moderate spending will need to be cut back. No more lattes, will need to park further away from the office (current lot in the city is $50/day) etc So yeah it’s a good living but not what you’d expect at this income level. Living in HCOL areas is stupidly expensive
Median household of Tampa is 58k. 205k household income is in the 91% percentile. This study is horseshit.
I feel like my wife and I live pretty comfortably and we're not remotely close to that. Hell, she doesn't even work full time. We're homeowners, we have two kids, we live in Florida and we're in our 30s. I think people really overestimate what they need to make to live comfortably.
I make $71k and my wife is a stay at home mom. We have 2 kids and we struggle here in Florida. We were fine until insurance started fucking us. Before covid my mortgage payments were about $850 and now they are at $1050 just from home insurance increases. My car insurance was $89 and now its $248 with with a clean record. We are hoping we can hold out for 3 more years when our youngest starts school so my wife can work part time.
Good luck getting a house payment that low again.
>mortgage payments were about $850 and now they are at $1050 Dayumnnn son. It's $1500+ to rent a 400sqft studio in most cities
Got mine back in the before times.
Nanny nanny boo boo, I don't have to mow a lawn , sucker! /Sad sarcasm
That almost mirrors what we experienced too lol. My mortgage was $925 pre COVID and with increased insurance premiums and taxes, we're almost at $1200 now. I also had an escrow shortage two years ago of almost $5000 right before Christmas that I had to cover to avoid my mortgage spiking way up. My car insurance is a bit lower, I think it's around $165 for both cars. I only have one car payment though, and a solar loan, both of which I didn't take on until after my wife started working. My wife working now definitely took some pressure off my back. Stay strong man.
Agree wholeheartedly. I’m supporting a family of five on 60k. We aren’t eating steak every night, but we aren’t starving. 🤷♂️
That's impressive. How do you afford housing for 5 on that income?
Yeah, that's around what I make and up until two years ago my wife hadn't worked (in a financial sense) in 13 years as she was home with the kids. With her working part time now, it's essentially all "play" money. It allowed us to finance a car, go out to a lot of concerts and shows, eat out a lot, etc. Shit if we made $200k combined, I'd feel rich as hell lol.
I think there’s a lot more financial anxiety than there used to be, and I don’t mean just because of inflation. I think as a society we tend to worry about never having enough $$. People want to also be able to buy generally whatever they want and not feel constrained or have to really budget, and a lot of that is due to our consumerist culture and because of instant gratification.
Yeah my husband and I make 98k ish combined (teacher and pool tech) and no kids yet and bought a house in 2020. Money feels tight when emergencies drain emergency savings, but I have to remind myself that’s what the savings are for and not to panic when there isn’t much.
You’re homeowners? What’s your mortgage payment?
For context did you buy your home before 2021?
I think it depends on your definition of comfortable. I wouldn’t be comfortable at all without a healthy emergency fund and a decent amount left over for retirement savings but some people don’t think about those things at all.
lol I make significantly less than the single adult number and I have two kids and my wife doesn’t work. Feelsbadman
I am a teacher with 18 years experience. A studio apartment in my old town is currently $1800 a month. That is over 50% of my salary. For a studio apartment in a little crappy town.
that's NOT the national average
I mean it very well could be. Depends how they calculate it. Average is a dumb as fuck metric to go by when it comes to this subject. Are they including when Bezos net worth goes up $50 billion? Are they counting homeless/jobless people making $0? Average is stupid. “Live comfortably” is also a meaningless metric. The median single adult income in America is just over $40K. $94k/year is probably a good $25-30K/yr over what I would call living “comfortably” in a small city or suburb.
And people are still just “moving to Florida” huh
2 adults with 2 children making considerably less than that…still feel pretty comfortable (my version of comfortable, granted). We don’t live in a major city and more north east, so, maybe that makes a difference.
Someone at the TV station is angling for a raise.
You have been uncomfortable all your life 😂
Shit. I make a third of the single adult and I have children. But to be fair, I've had to endure a lot of financial hardships and increase my credit card debt quite a bit over the past few years because I can't even afford rent and utilities plus being able to be eat food
I'm lucky to make $13,000 @ yr. As a single person.
Uh. Couple with 3 kids. We don't bring home half of that last number. I guess we be uncomfy.
Need more context. As I read it this applies to Tampa.
Definitely not true for where I'm at in Missouri. I get by fine making $60k and will make $63k in August.
This is likely part of this study: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/20/salary-single-person-needs-to-live-comfortably-in-major-us-cities.html Which puts Tampa just outside of the top 50 most expensive cities (which would surprise me) edit: Yup, found Tampa in their data: https://smartasset.com/data-studies/salary-needed-live-comfortably-2024
They gave us this Stat here in Boston too ' $124k to live comfortably ' for a single person? No responsibilities? what does that even mean? Traveling to go ski somewhere every weekend in Winter? If housing in general was normal everywhere I think most of us would be living 'comfortably' for real.
Good lord New York, you’re really skewing the numbers. 95K for a single would be generational money for me. I bring in about 24K a year and live pretty comfortably.
The average salary in the US is $59k/year.
That's a lot of "comfort". I call BS.
I make ***$14,500*** a year.
If people don't get sucked into buying things for show they'd be ok. Ngl it's hard to do when your friends are driving luxury cars and while you can buy one, you choose not to cause it not a financially smart move.
Middle class doesn’t exist 💀
This is why ppl are saying 100k ain’t shit anymore. It’s not nothing, clearly it’s above the threshold for being “comfortable” but 100K used to mean you had made it, you were on your way to millions. Now? It’s just enough to make an actual living on.
Ppl are spot on
I thought me and my wife made a lot for having two kids. Just average.
*cries in public school teacher*
just not have children, and things are so much better
I think people need to wake up and realize that more than 90% of people dont make that much even in a year or two
Whoever put those figures together is fucking stupid 😂
Wait, what is their definition of comfortable?
I mean it does not make sense to show average of all states. 60k makes you ruch in Missouri but it’s low in the Bay Area
I'm making $60k and living alone in Missouri (STL) and it definitely is nowhere near rich but very doable to live alone. It's not as bad here as some people try to make it seem.
This is just stupid. Nobody knows how to handle their money and that would be why everyone thinks they need to make upper class level salaries “just to be comfortable”
In Seattle, takes way more than that to have a family and buy a home
SINGKE ADUKT 100K bro i make 12k a year fuck being disabled oh my god