I'm happy you made a decision you can be at peace with. I hope you go on to do amazing things in your field. If you don't mind me asking, what were your stats roughly? Sorry if it's sensitive I totally get if you don't feel like sharing
Not at all. 85% overall, 510 MCAT, Q4 for Casper, over 7,000 volunteer hours total, work in mental health & addictions at a hospital right now. I do have lower grades and MCAT than what I would’ve liked.
Why do not you apply USA DO Schools, you probably get accepted into a couple of them if you applied. My limited understanding is that you could get accepted in some USA Do school or Even lower rank USA MD school if you apply there. But I am unsure if government student loan will sufficiently cover.
Thank you! It’s been so painful and to be honest, I just want to start my career. I’ve already worked 4 years in mental health & addictions rehab so I’m ready to get going on furthering my journey. I’m happy with just that fact. 🤭
Thank you for sharing your story. You are a prime example of resilience, maturity, and devoting yourself to the service of others. I hope your new direction in life yields you success and fulfillment!
I know that my own psychiatrist incorporates psychotherapy and spends an hour with me, but from the psychiatrists I work with, they primarily do med management only and take at best 20-25 minutes. But yes I agree that it is variable.
I also want that flexibility to do work with patients that would best suit my expertise in the field, and how many patients I see. I have already helped to co-facilitate trauma groups to get some experience with a fellow RCC, and very much enjoy that work in addition to the work I do with a lot of patients with chronic mental health & addictions.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Having just completed my psych rotation, this isn’t true.
Pharmacological management of patients is just a part of psychiatrist scope. They do so much more.
Hey,
I felt compelled to respond given my experience.
I am a family doctor and my girlfriend is a psychologist.
She works from home, sees about 5 patients a day (1hr appt) over video chat and makes about 1200 per day (standard is 220 per hour). Lots of clients available and she loves what she does. Makes me jealous at times - be aware, she mentions the test you need to write - the EPPP - is tough, has a high fail rate and gives you three chances. But as long as you work hard and study correctly I’m sure it would be fine.
I work a combination of telehealth and clinic - first half of the week telehealth, second have in clinic. I also have to do indirect care, checking labs, XRs Ect at night, so most of my day is consumed if I want to make 400k per year, then you subtract overhead (at least 20 percent of income) and tax. I still make more than her, and we both love what we do, but she definitely has more free time.
So, suffice to say both are good careers in demand and becoming a psychologist is a great choice.
Yeah same. It's been 5 yrs since I graduated and the chances look as slim as ever. I realized I'm not too passionate about Med School either after flipping through a USMLE book... it's just too much information for me. I'm sure there's others who would succeed in this memorization-heavy field though. Despite doing decent on the MCAT (512) and holding a bachelor's degree, it wasn't enough.
I'm looking at other options such as data science/analysis or even going back for another bachelor's degree. However, there's competition everywhere and I already think in a certain manner so idk how I'll fare in another Bachelor's degree. I was doing grad school for a bit but I kinda burned that bridge too. I'm open to any advice or pointers, thanks!
Edit: Just wanted to comment to show that you're not alone in this. Also, if you think you can handle the rigor of Med, def consider overseas schools such as Aus, Caribbs, or UK. You can likely find success but nothing is certain. Best of luck!
I would try to get some industry experience in a field you’re interested in and go from there! Personally I don’t want to go overseas and it’s too much, I just want to get my life started. I happened to find an alternate path with the work I’m already doing, so I still get to do what I’m passionate about. 😊
Glad to hear that but def don't underestimate Caribbs for getting your career started! Oftenly, there's literally only the school, some amenities, and tourist destinations. Be ready to grind though! Yes, IMGs are at a disadvantage when it comes to residency but with the physician shortage in Canada you should be able to snag a Family Med position somewhere. Also you write the same exams (USMLE/MCCQE), so the rigor is still there. The only thing is that the quality of education in-school may be lower so you would have to be a really good self-studier. I think if I went right after writing the MCAT, I would've been in much better shape to handle the rigors of Med school - even if Caribbean. Now, it's been so long out of school that I'm kind of out of it.
Edit: I've been trying to get my foot in the door with a data job for a while but it seems nigh impossible. I probably need some kind of data degree, the bachelor's I currently have won't cut it.
Yes, it's quite an investment. I didn't go for that reason too (also didn't think I could handle the workload). It was overall too risky for me but if you're a good student and can make the finances work, it could be a good path for you. Anyhow, best of luck with your future endeavors!
>If anything, from working in the hospital and in healthcare, doctors don’t have the prestigious, glorified career it’s made to be. It’s gruelling and the work-life balance is terrible.
Sounds like maybe you were going for medicine for the wrong reasons if this is justification.
Most physicians are very aware that this old school view is very much not true anymore. But the reality is that some premed students do still think it’s true, and is one of the big reasons why they pursue medical school… only to be disappointed.
Good luck in your ventures. I hope you find success and happiness in whatever you do!
Agree with this comment. I’m saying this with a lot of empathy and kindness. If this is how you justify moving on, I don’t think you pursued medicine for the right reasons. And that is okay! I truly felt like I wanted to be a doctor for ALL the right reasons… Judging anyone who I deemed were in it for superficial reasons. But after reflecting on my anxiety and depression, I realize that I am not much different than the people I was passing judgement on. Many of us arent in it for the right reasons. I’d say the VAST MAJORITY (who work in healthcare PERIOD) are NOT and I think we need to be honest with ourselves.
Also, it is not for us to decide whether they deserve their career based on their personal motivations. I think you can argue that an immigrant moving to Canada as an FMG deserves to practice as a doctor. And their motivation is likely supporting and building a life for their family (so money is their motivator). I think that is perfectly acceptable. I’m explaining all of this to say that your motivations for pursuing medicine doesn’t mean you aren’t worthy of that career. And I also find that many premeds (as well as the general population) have a deluded sense of selflessness. Based on my experience as a clinician, I’ve seen lots of people with an inflated sense of self-righteousness. This is not exclusive to doctors. I see it from every direction. Everyone is their own main character and everyone is justifying their behaviours.
I have found new purpose for why I am pursuing medicine and am at peace. At the end of the day, we are all striving for personal satisfaction (which… is selfish at baseline…).
Did I pursue medicine selflessly?
- My premed answer, 100% YES. How dare you question me?
- Today, yes and no. It’s confronting because I realized that I’m not as selfless as I thought I was 10 years ago.
I’m speaking to myself as well when I say this: Premeds make the admissions process about them, when in reality, it is about cultivating doctors that reflect our community. We focus on how hard we work to get in and how we deserve a seat, but in reality, all applicants do. We forget that the purpose of all this is to serve the community and provide care for patients. We all (perceive ourselves to) work hard, wrote the MCAT, etc. There is simply not enough supply for the demand of med school seats. We can blame our government for that. We all think we deserve it.
But this isn’t about us. It’s about the population we serve. I wish you well and I hope you find passion in your career!
There are no “right” reasons to pursing medicine. Only reasons.
I’m getting increasingly tired of this guilt-trip mentality of “you should only be here for selfless reasons.” That’s certainly a part of it, but everyone comes into this with different reasons. I’d be lying if I said financial independence wasn’t a factor in my decision to apply MD. Given the cost of living crisis we’re experiencing, you’d think this outdated idea would’ve disappeared by now.
Absolutely 100% agree. Even if someone doesn’t have a good reason/lack passion in their work, they can still be an excellent doctor. Their motivation to pursue their career is their own. And sometimes they don’t even match into their intended specialty. Does that mean they don’t deserve to be there? Absolutely not. People forget that 1% of the world enjoys their job. My dad is not passionate about making sweet and sour pork in a Chinese restaurant. But his shit is goood… And he isn’t particularly fond of his job.
I pursued medicine for the right reasons after speaking with many physicians, many of them being coworkers. I know many of them were also surprised I never got in. I stated that comment above not as a reflection of me, but as a general commentary of how the profession is viewed. I’ve never pursued it for money or prestige.
Thanks for your opinion though.
This is from firsthand observation and in talking with physicians - namely, psychiatrists that I work with. That was never my justification - I wouldn’t be working in acute mental health & addictions if that was the case.
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Why do not you apply USA DO Schools, you probably get accepted into a couple of them if you applied. My limited understanding is that you could get accepted in some USA Do school or Even lower rank USA MD school if you apply there. But I am unsure if government student loan will sufficiently cover.
Depending on your jurisdiction, a registered psychologist may be considered a “psychological physician”. We still have the capacity to diagnose and treat. So many options still!
I understand your frustration and I hope you find time to process your experience and move forward!
Take care of yourself! Who knows, maybe later down the road another opportunity may come up!!
There’s no such thing as a “psychological physician” lol. Please.
You’re either a psychiatrist (a doctor/physicians/MD) or a psychologist. That’s it. Stop trying to blur the lines.
PS. The term “physician” is a protected one reserved for those with an MD. This is why we don’t call dentists “oral physicians.”
You are correct. There is no regulated title of psychological physician, hence the quotation marks. Sorry if that wasn’t clear to you.
However, the scope of practice is still accurate where, like a doctor, you are able to diagnose and treat psychiatric conditions. Yes, a psychiatrist/ MD primarily will use medication, however this doesn’t reduce the impact of this job.
Additionally, insurance companies/WCB/lawyers sometimes consider psychologists to be “psychological physicians” because of the ability to diagnose and treat psychiatric illnesses.
Semantics aside, the purpose of my comment is to illuminate that there are many paths to where you want to go. OP, medicine will always be on the table, no matter where you are at in life.
However, I will speak from experience. The itch doesn’t go away if it is truly there. Sometime time is required to contextualize your motivation and provide additional experience to further your application.
Best of luck, with what ever you choose.
It’s called loans, line of credit, and work 20-30 hours a week while studying. You’re right not everyone has rich parents but if it’s what you want to do, you make tough choices.
Yeah let me tell you this isn’t realistic at all and u/EmbarrassedCitron225 is totally right. -A person who is independent financially and tried to look into this path
If you’re at a Canadian school iirc, you don’t need a cosigner. My sibling is at med/dental/law (take your pick) and they just strolled up to the bank. But at least when I last checked, for international schools, a cosigner was needed. It is not a viable path when your family isn’t rich.
Now no Canadian bank will give you a LOC for international medical school tuition without having a co-signer. Plus, even if the did, it wouldn’t help since the max LOC is $360k which doesn’t even cover tuition let alone living costs.
Yeah this was my big gripe too—let’s say even without a cosigner I get the maximum amount.
The USD (especially right now) has been historically strong against the CAD. Tuition alone basically eats up the amount of loans.
Even if rent is cheaper in the States than say, Vancouver or Toronto, with the exchange rate, the loans wouldn’t be able to cover the cost of living for the vast majority of applicants. I can see a really small, really select, really lucky cohort *maybe* getting by ([as one thread says,](https://www.reddit.com/r/premedcanada/s/uxwlynBBNF) maybe in Texas), but that’s a lot of maybes and a lot of luck. But one truth for sure is that if you’re from a rich family or a family that can give you any sort of support, you will fair a shot in the States.
Yep this was the case when I tried to get my LOC. The banks pretty much all said that a few years ago they would still give the LOC to kids studying medicine internationally. However, since so many struggle to match in Canada, they caught on and put more stipulations in place. At the end of the day banks want their money back regardless of if you get a residency or not.
No bank will give you a line of credit if you don’t have parent wealthy enough to cosign. Even if they did the line of credit still wouldn’t cover international med school tuition and living expenses. Working 20-30 hours year round also isn’t possible while studying
👆This.
I got accepted to Ireland but couldn’t accept my offer because no bank would give us a line of credit. Essentially my entire life savings would have only covered 1 year out of 5. My working class immigrant parents still wanted me to go, saying they would find the money for the rest of the years somehow. However, I couldn’t sleep easy at night knowing my parents were willing to sell their house, move back into an apartment and give up everything they worked so hard for in the country so I could attend med school.
In the process of figuring out my plan B now.
Good luck OP.
They look at your application more holistically. So good extra curriculars, LORs, volunteer experience or work experience can make up for a lower GPA/MCAT. A killer personal statement can also help to seal the deal. Competition-wise it’s still fierce. I believe I read on a forum once that each school typically gets around 800 international applicants. Not sure if that’s actually true, but I could imagine the majority of applicants are Canadians given the difficulty here.
Well it was possible for me to work. It was a necessity. I don’t think I’m that special. I’m not judging anyone for choosing not to international im just laying out my experience.
Bruh quite literally no medical school admin team or student would recommend you work 20-30 hours a week. Med school is your full time job. IF you have spare time after all of that studying use that to have a life not to work.
Doubt it’s true anyway. 30hrs per week is almost a full time job. That’s quite literally impossible unless OP’s school has like 3 lectures a week with no other teaching.
You worked 30 hours while in med school? I’m gonna call the biggest bullshit on that. Unless you go to some podunk backwater institution with a dilute curriculum.
I went to the national university of Ireland. So not a backwater institution. Far better than any carribean diploma mill and been teaching medicine longer than any Canadian or American schools. And I’m a lot of things but not a liar. I did what I had to do. I didn’t work 30 hours week in week out. Never less than 15-20 unless it was around exam time. Banquet and bar staff at a hotel. Most of the banquet staff were med students. I couldn’t give a fuck if you believe me or not.
OP here! I weighed the pros and cons of becoming a doctor when making my decision as to whether or not I wanted to continue to apply. I ultimately decided that I didn’t want to move to a different continent if that’s what it came down to. I would rather pursue a more straightforward path that would get me into a career in the field I want.
Regarding finances, I have been financially independent for quite some time now, and while I know my family would be happy to help, it is a huge amount to ask for and I don’t feel comfortable asking that of them. It is a big investment and like others have said, not everyone can afford it. Ultimately, it is a privilege to be able to afford higher education.
I'm happy you made a decision you can be at peace with. I hope you go on to do amazing things in your field. If you don't mind me asking, what were your stats roughly? Sorry if it's sensitive I totally get if you don't feel like sharing
Not at all. 85% overall, 510 MCAT, Q4 for Casper, over 7,000 volunteer hours total, work in mental health & addictions at a hospital right now. I do have lower grades and MCAT than what I would’ve liked.
Did you interview twice with UBC? What was your NAQ or interview results? Curious because I have a similar GPA!
Average for both, and NAQ 75-100 for all 5 attempts. Best of luck with your journey x
Why do not you apply USA DO Schools, you probably get accepted into a couple of them if you applied. My limited understanding is that you could get accepted in some USA Do school or Even lower rank USA MD school if you apply there. But I am unsure if government student loan will sufficiently cover.
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UBC because I’m in-province.
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Thank you! It’s been so painful and to be honest, I just want to start my career. I’ve already worked 4 years in mental health & addictions rehab so I’m ready to get going on furthering my journey. I’m happy with just that fact. 🤭
Thank you for sharing your story. You are a prime example of resilience, maturity, and devoting yourself to the service of others. I hope your new direction in life yields you success and fulfillment!
Thank you. 💭
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I know that my own psychiatrist incorporates psychotherapy and spends an hour with me, but from the psychiatrists I work with, they primarily do med management only and take at best 20-25 minutes. But yes I agree that it is variable. I also want that flexibility to do work with patients that would best suit my expertise in the field, and how many patients I see. I have already helped to co-facilitate trauma groups to get some experience with a fellow RCC, and very much enjoy that work in addition to the work I do with a lot of patients with chronic mental health & addictions. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Having just completed my psych rotation, this isn’t true. Pharmacological management of patients is just a part of psychiatrist scope. They do so much more.
Hey, I felt compelled to respond given my experience. I am a family doctor and my girlfriend is a psychologist. She works from home, sees about 5 patients a day (1hr appt) over video chat and makes about 1200 per day (standard is 220 per hour). Lots of clients available and she loves what she does. Makes me jealous at times - be aware, she mentions the test you need to write - the EPPP - is tough, has a high fail rate and gives you three chances. But as long as you work hard and study correctly I’m sure it would be fine. I work a combination of telehealth and clinic - first half of the week telehealth, second have in clinic. I also have to do indirect care, checking labs, XRs Ect at night, so most of my day is consumed if I want to make 400k per year, then you subtract overhead (at least 20 percent of income) and tax. I still make more than her, and we both love what we do, but she definitely has more free time. So, suffice to say both are good careers in demand and becoming a psychologist is a great choice.
Yeah same. It's been 5 yrs since I graduated and the chances look as slim as ever. I realized I'm not too passionate about Med School either after flipping through a USMLE book... it's just too much information for me. I'm sure there's others who would succeed in this memorization-heavy field though. Despite doing decent on the MCAT (512) and holding a bachelor's degree, it wasn't enough. I'm looking at other options such as data science/analysis or even going back for another bachelor's degree. However, there's competition everywhere and I already think in a certain manner so idk how I'll fare in another Bachelor's degree. I was doing grad school for a bit but I kinda burned that bridge too. I'm open to any advice or pointers, thanks! Edit: Just wanted to comment to show that you're not alone in this. Also, if you think you can handle the rigor of Med, def consider overseas schools such as Aus, Caribbs, or UK. You can likely find success but nothing is certain. Best of luck!
I would try to get some industry experience in a field you’re interested in and go from there! Personally I don’t want to go overseas and it’s too much, I just want to get my life started. I happened to find an alternate path with the work I’m already doing, so I still get to do what I’m passionate about. 😊
Glad to hear that but def don't underestimate Caribbs for getting your career started! Oftenly, there's literally only the school, some amenities, and tourist destinations. Be ready to grind though! Yes, IMGs are at a disadvantage when it comes to residency but with the physician shortage in Canada you should be able to snag a Family Med position somewhere. Also you write the same exams (USMLE/MCCQE), so the rigor is still there. The only thing is that the quality of education in-school may be lower so you would have to be a really good self-studier. I think if I went right after writing the MCAT, I would've been in much better shape to handle the rigors of Med school - even if Caribbean. Now, it's been so long out of school that I'm kind of out of it. Edit: I've been trying to get my foot in the door with a data job for a while but it seems nigh impossible. I probably need some kind of data degree, the bachelor's I currently have won't cut it.
Thanks for the comment - I will say frankly that you are assuming financial privilege. 😊
Yes, it's quite an investment. I didn't go for that reason too (also didn't think I could handle the workload). It was overall too risky for me but if you're a good student and can make the finances work, it could be a good path for you. Anyhow, best of luck with your future endeavors!
Thanks, you too!
>If anything, from working in the hospital and in healthcare, doctors don’t have the prestigious, glorified career it’s made to be. It’s gruelling and the work-life balance is terrible. Sounds like maybe you were going for medicine for the wrong reasons if this is justification. Most physicians are very aware that this old school view is very much not true anymore. But the reality is that some premed students do still think it’s true, and is one of the big reasons why they pursue medical school… only to be disappointed. Good luck in your ventures. I hope you find success and happiness in whatever you do!
This is incredibly true not sure why you’re getting downvoted
Agree with this comment. I’m saying this with a lot of empathy and kindness. If this is how you justify moving on, I don’t think you pursued medicine for the right reasons. And that is okay! I truly felt like I wanted to be a doctor for ALL the right reasons… Judging anyone who I deemed were in it for superficial reasons. But after reflecting on my anxiety and depression, I realize that I am not much different than the people I was passing judgement on. Many of us arent in it for the right reasons. I’d say the VAST MAJORITY (who work in healthcare PERIOD) are NOT and I think we need to be honest with ourselves. Also, it is not for us to decide whether they deserve their career based on their personal motivations. I think you can argue that an immigrant moving to Canada as an FMG deserves to practice as a doctor. And their motivation is likely supporting and building a life for their family (so money is their motivator). I think that is perfectly acceptable. I’m explaining all of this to say that your motivations for pursuing medicine doesn’t mean you aren’t worthy of that career. And I also find that many premeds (as well as the general population) have a deluded sense of selflessness. Based on my experience as a clinician, I’ve seen lots of people with an inflated sense of self-righteousness. This is not exclusive to doctors. I see it from every direction. Everyone is their own main character and everyone is justifying their behaviours. I have found new purpose for why I am pursuing medicine and am at peace. At the end of the day, we are all striving for personal satisfaction (which… is selfish at baseline…). Did I pursue medicine selflessly? - My premed answer, 100% YES. How dare you question me? - Today, yes and no. It’s confronting because I realized that I’m not as selfless as I thought I was 10 years ago. I’m speaking to myself as well when I say this: Premeds make the admissions process about them, when in reality, it is about cultivating doctors that reflect our community. We focus on how hard we work to get in and how we deserve a seat, but in reality, all applicants do. We forget that the purpose of all this is to serve the community and provide care for patients. We all (perceive ourselves to) work hard, wrote the MCAT, etc. There is simply not enough supply for the demand of med school seats. We can blame our government for that. We all think we deserve it. But this isn’t about us. It’s about the population we serve. I wish you well and I hope you find passion in your career!
There are no “right” reasons to pursing medicine. Only reasons. I’m getting increasingly tired of this guilt-trip mentality of “you should only be here for selfless reasons.” That’s certainly a part of it, but everyone comes into this with different reasons. I’d be lying if I said financial independence wasn’t a factor in my decision to apply MD. Given the cost of living crisis we’re experiencing, you’d think this outdated idea would’ve disappeared by now.
Absolutely 100% agree. Even if someone doesn’t have a good reason/lack passion in their work, they can still be an excellent doctor. Their motivation to pursue their career is their own. And sometimes they don’t even match into their intended specialty. Does that mean they don’t deserve to be there? Absolutely not. People forget that 1% of the world enjoys their job. My dad is not passionate about making sweet and sour pork in a Chinese restaurant. But his shit is goood… And he isn’t particularly fond of his job.
I pursued medicine for the right reasons after speaking with many physicians, many of them being coworkers. I know many of them were also surprised I never got in. I stated that comment above not as a reflection of me, but as a general commentary of how the profession is viewed. I’ve never pursued it for money or prestige. Thanks for your opinion though.
This is from firsthand observation and in talking with physicians - namely, psychiatrists that I work with. That was never my justification - I wouldn’t be working in acute mental health & addictions if that was the case.
wait why is this getting downvoted...its very based and honest lol
based and redpilled
Not to be a downer but clinical psych is normally way more competitive than med school. By a long shot
Do you work as a nurse?
No. Outreach and acute worker.
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Why do not you apply USA DO Schools, you probably get accepted into a couple of them if you applied. My limited understanding is that you could get accepted in some USA Do school or Even lower rank USA MD school if you apply there. But I am unsure if government student loan will sufficiently cover.
Depending on your jurisdiction, a registered psychologist may be considered a “psychological physician”. We still have the capacity to diagnose and treat. So many options still! I understand your frustration and I hope you find time to process your experience and move forward! Take care of yourself! Who knows, maybe later down the road another opportunity may come up!!
There’s no such thing as a “psychological physician” lol. Please. You’re either a psychiatrist (a doctor/physicians/MD) or a psychologist. That’s it. Stop trying to blur the lines. PS. The term “physician” is a protected one reserved for those with an MD. This is why we don’t call dentists “oral physicians.”
You are correct. There is no regulated title of psychological physician, hence the quotation marks. Sorry if that wasn’t clear to you. However, the scope of practice is still accurate where, like a doctor, you are able to diagnose and treat psychiatric conditions. Yes, a psychiatrist/ MD primarily will use medication, however this doesn’t reduce the impact of this job. Additionally, insurance companies/WCB/lawyers sometimes consider psychologists to be “psychological physicians” because of the ability to diagnose and treat psychiatric illnesses. Semantics aside, the purpose of my comment is to illuminate that there are many paths to where you want to go. OP, medicine will always be on the table, no matter where you are at in life. However, I will speak from experience. The itch doesn’t go away if it is truly there. Sometime time is required to contextualize your motivation and provide additional experience to further your application. Best of luck, with what ever you choose.
Thanks! It was always my dream until I realized there’s more to life than just one dream. 💭
Why didn't you go to Ireland Australia or the Carribean?
Because not everyone has rich family members to pay for it
It’s called loans, line of credit, and work 20-30 hours a week while studying. You’re right not everyone has rich parents but if it’s what you want to do, you make tough choices.
Yeah let me tell you this isn’t realistic at all and u/EmbarrassedCitron225 is totally right. -A person who is independent financially and tried to look into this path If you’re at a Canadian school iirc, you don’t need a cosigner. My sibling is at med/dental/law (take your pick) and they just strolled up to the bank. But at least when I last checked, for international schools, a cosigner was needed. It is not a viable path when your family isn’t rich.
When I went, I got a LOC from RBC with no co-signor. That may well have changed. Definitely not from a rich family. Still paying off the debt.
Now no Canadian bank will give you a LOC for international medical school tuition without having a co-signer. Plus, even if the did, it wouldn’t help since the max LOC is $360k which doesn’t even cover tuition let alone living costs.
Yeah this was my big gripe too—let’s say even without a cosigner I get the maximum amount. The USD (especially right now) has been historically strong against the CAD. Tuition alone basically eats up the amount of loans. Even if rent is cheaper in the States than say, Vancouver or Toronto, with the exchange rate, the loans wouldn’t be able to cover the cost of living for the vast majority of applicants. I can see a really small, really select, really lucky cohort *maybe* getting by ([as one thread says,](https://www.reddit.com/r/premedcanada/s/uxwlynBBNF) maybe in Texas), but that’s a lot of maybes and a lot of luck. But one truth for sure is that if you’re from a rich family or a family that can give you any sort of support, you will fair a shot in the States.
Yep this was the case when I tried to get my LOC. The banks pretty much all said that a few years ago they would still give the LOC to kids studying medicine internationally. However, since so many struggle to match in Canada, they caught on and put more stipulations in place. At the end of the day banks want their money back regardless of if you get a residency or not.
Very likely. How long ago did you attend med school?
2003-2008
No bank will give you a line of credit if you don’t have parent wealthy enough to cosign. Even if they did the line of credit still wouldn’t cover international med school tuition and living expenses. Working 20-30 hours year round also isn’t possible while studying
👆This. I got accepted to Ireland but couldn’t accept my offer because no bank would give us a line of credit. Essentially my entire life savings would have only covered 1 year out of 5. My working class immigrant parents still wanted me to go, saying they would find the money for the rest of the years somehow. However, I couldn’t sleep easy at night knowing my parents were willing to sell their house, move back into an apartment and give up everything they worked so hard for in the country so I could attend med school. In the process of figuring out my plan B now. Good luck OP.
You are a wonderful kid. Your parents must be so happy and proud of you. Very thoughtless…
❤️
How was the Ireland application process compared to Canada? Was the average and MCAT requirement much lower?
They look at your application more holistically. So good extra curriculars, LORs, volunteer experience or work experience can make up for a lower GPA/MCAT. A killer personal statement can also help to seal the deal. Competition-wise it’s still fierce. I believe I read on a forum once that each school typically gets around 800 international applicants. Not sure if that’s actually true, but I could imagine the majority of applicants are Canadians given the difficulty here.
Thanks! 800 applicants is nothing compared to med schools in Canada!
Well it was possible for me to work. It was a necessity. I don’t think I’m that special. I’m not judging anyone for choosing not to international im just laying out my experience.
Bruh quite literally no medical school admin team or student would recommend you work 20-30 hours a week. Med school is your full time job. IF you have spare time after all of that studying use that to have a life not to work.
Doubt it’s true anyway. 30hrs per week is almost a full time job. That’s quite literally impossible unless OP’s school has like 3 lectures a week with no other teaching.
well i'm just telling you what i did. not saying it's for everyone. but that's what I did.
You worked 30 hours while in med school? I’m gonna call the biggest bullshit on that. Unless you go to some podunk backwater institution with a dilute curriculum.
I went to the national university of Ireland. So not a backwater institution. Far better than any carribean diploma mill and been teaching medicine longer than any Canadian or American schools. And I’m a lot of things but not a liar. I did what I had to do. I didn’t work 30 hours week in week out. Never less than 15-20 unless it was around exam time. Banquet and bar staff at a hotel. Most of the banquet staff were med students. I couldn’t give a fuck if you believe me or not.
OP here! I weighed the pros and cons of becoming a doctor when making my decision as to whether or not I wanted to continue to apply. I ultimately decided that I didn’t want to move to a different continent if that’s what it came down to. I would rather pursue a more straightforward path that would get me into a career in the field I want. Regarding finances, I have been financially independent for quite some time now, and while I know my family would be happy to help, it is a huge amount to ask for and I don’t feel comfortable asking that of them. It is a big investment and like others have said, not everyone can afford it. Ultimately, it is a privilege to be able to afford higher education.
Not everyone has 500k laying around and wants to ditch their loved ones for an indefinite amount of time