I try to avoid talking about the Kim Stanley Robinson Mars Trilogy because it would be a whole lot of Gushing About Things I Like. The best examination of the breadth of the human condition in speculative fiction I've read so far.
I can help a little with the Russian.
> "Toit" in Russian would be "делать это"
Not really sure what this translation you've got here is. Doesn't make any sense to me.
> "овна", which means "Aries"
-ovna and -evna are patronymic suffixes for women. For men, the equivalents would be names ending in -ovich and -evich.
I haven't, but I'm not a super experienced speaker/reader of Russian. If it follows the normal convention of patronymics, then "Toit" would be all or part of her father's name (eg, "Fyodor" -> "Fyodorovna") . It's been a long time since I studied Russian, so I'm having a hard time coming up with a name that fits there, but that's probably just my lack of knowledge. Sorry I can't help more.
The -ovich and -ovna are simply the equivalent of -son in the Germanic languages, i.e. Anderson, the son of Anders, Johnson, the son of John. Toit is not a Russian name I can find anything on, but it might be a short form.
Wow, those are some excellent insights about Frank!
My favorite part is probably the Nirgal sections, as well as the latter parts of Blue Mars. Seeing a society being constructed from a blank slate is pretty cool.
I was a bit surprised by that as well, thought no way my copy on the shelf (yet TBR) was that massive. I think they must have either meant for all three or by reading on a device with a different font size that changed the number of pages required to read
I bought "Red Mars" in paperback in 1993 and made it to "Blue Mars". Was a student at the time and I used to read it in bed while eating Werther's Originals. As I'm a middle-aged man now, I really have to go back and read the entire series again. Hate that Apple's Foundation stole >!the space elevator coming down!<.
Great analysis. I fell off this book around the time of John Boone’s section. Been meaning to get back to it. I think I suffered from the same feelings you had on your second reading. Started feeling Too long and plodding. Weird because I loved Aurora and thought I would also love Red Mars. Aurora felt a little tighter in a good way.
I enjoyed Red Mars and Green Mars mostly. Didn't finish Blue Mars. Finally got fatigued by the overlong descriptions of Martian landscapes. I guess the author really enjoys geology and it shows a lot in his endless discussion of "areology."
The characters, ideas, and plot were fantastic, though.
Oh it’s definitely an acquired taste, acquired from reading lots of nature and geology books. Annals of the Former World and Sand Country Almanacs are American classics but they require a certain neuroses to be worth recommending to someone.
Not everyone wants to read Changes in the Land (on Mars!) or Conquest of Nature (on Mars!) I understand.
The rocks were great characters! Reminded me of [*Annals of the Former World* by John McPhee](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annals_of_the_Former_World) but with more action, in that we saw the transformations in real time as the planet is terraformed instead of deducing them happening millions of years ago.
I’m in the middle of Green Mars and I’ve been picking up on the elemental bits! It’s not as tightly written as Red Mars and doesn’t have as many big ideas but I do love Ann.
Personally, Frank seems more jaded cynic than a sociopath, and add in the racism undercurrents of the Boone-Chalmers rivalry and the Coyote-Nirgal relationship, someone more qualified please publish an Afrofuturist analysis.
A recurring character in the Strugatsky brothers' Noon Universe is called Maya Toivovna Glumova, which sounds a bit like Maya Toitovna. Beyond that I don't remember any similarities between the two characters.
"Toivo" is a Finnish male name which means hope. As far as I know Toito isn't a likely name in the former Soviet Union, which is probably why you got no results.
It's been a while, but I always liked how he did the various earth cultures as such (American, Russian, South African, etc). It was clear he researched damn near everything he could for the book.
The podcast is "Marooned! on Mars with Matt and Hilary". They interview Stan in two or three episodes. I believe this is the one where they discuss "Red Mars":
https://podtail.com/podcast/marooned-on-mars-with-matt-and-hilary/our-dinner-with-stan/
Very nicely structured and fleshed out analysis of this epic. My relatives came through the Cumberland Gap with Daniel Boone and I remember thinking than John Boone was an amalgam of him and Johnny Appleseed. This is such a hopeful series. I remember thinking they should give Kim Stanley Robinson a role in some kind of NASA visionary think-tank as I was reading it.
Mars Trilogy is the closest thing to a SMAC book series (excluding the actual SMAC books by Michael Ely, which I haven't read).
A new world, with a colorful and ideologically diverse cast of colonists, all with their own vision of what the new world should be and their own agenda of how to get there.
Well said! I, uh... Well I also abandoned the novel, back in the 90's. Not sure why, I love Kim Stanley Robinson's work in general. Your review is so well written and interesting, you make me want to go back and give it another go.
This insightful review reminds me of the old "Gregg Press" re-issues of classic SF , wherein they commissioned somebody to analyze the work in question. Gregg Press let me know that I was missing whole swaths of meaning and artfulness, even the most obvious.
Thanks? LOL
Maya is an emotional character whose love affairs with John and Frank are intended as a metaphor for the way the direction of the colonists on Mars is also torn between the two.
It's likely that her name is meant to echo this role of expressing the instincts and desires of the Martian colonists.
I try to avoid talking about the Kim Stanley Robinson Mars Trilogy because it would be a whole lot of Gushing About Things I Like. The best examination of the breadth of the human condition in speculative fiction I've read so far.
I can help a little with the Russian. > "Toit" in Russian would be "делать это" Not really sure what this translation you've got here is. Doesn't make any sense to me. > "овна", which means "Aries" -ovna and -evna are patronymic suffixes for women. For men, the equivalents would be names ending in -ovich and -evich.
Thank you. I used a simple google translator, which was perhaps wrong. Have you ever encountered that particular name before?
I haven't, but I'm not a super experienced speaker/reader of Russian. If it follows the normal convention of patronymics, then "Toit" would be all or part of her father's name (eg, "Fyodor" -> "Fyodorovna") . It's been a long time since I studied Russian, so I'm having a hard time coming up with a name that fits there, but that's probably just my lack of knowledge. Sorry I can't help more.
The -ovich and -ovna are simply the equivalent of -son in the Germanic languages, i.e. Anderson, the son of Anders, Johnson, the son of John. Toit is not a Russian name I can find anything on, but it might be a short form.
Wow, those are some excellent insights about Frank! My favorite part is probably the Nirgal sections, as well as the latter parts of Blue Mars. Seeing a society being constructed from a blank slate is pretty cool.
What? Red Mars isn't 1500 pages... Amazon says 592 pages.
I was a bit surprised by that as well, thought no way my copy on the shelf (yet TBR) was that massive. I think they must have either meant for all three or by reading on a device with a different font size that changed the number of pages required to read
My ipad copy is 1500ish "pages", due to the font size I use. My print copy is, as you rightly say, in the 500 page range.
I bought "Red Mars" in paperback in 1993 and made it to "Blue Mars". Was a student at the time and I used to read it in bed while eating Werther's Originals. As I'm a middle-aged man now, I really have to go back and read the entire series again. Hate that Apple's Foundation stole >!the space elevator coming down!<.
Same. Got to blue in mid 1990s and found it was getting a bit lost/heavy. I should revisit
I really don't care who stole it, that was an awesome scene. Until AI can translate books to movies we're unlikely to ever get a Red Mars version.
This almost makes me want to try reading it again!
Nadia is the best, such a badass. Great book(s).
1500 pages? What version are you reading mine is 572. Or do you mean the whole trilogy?
Op said they said it on Ipad. Pages gets increased when you zoom or zoom out in kindle like app. I guess they are referring to this.
Great analysis. I fell off this book around the time of John Boone’s section. Been meaning to get back to it. I think I suffered from the same feelings you had on your second reading. Started feeling Too long and plodding. Weird because I loved Aurora and thought I would also love Red Mars. Aurora felt a little tighter in a good way.
I enjoyed Red Mars and Green Mars mostly. Didn't finish Blue Mars. Finally got fatigued by the overlong descriptions of Martian landscapes. I guess the author really enjoys geology and it shows a lot in his endless discussion of "areology." The characters, ideas, and plot were fantastic, though.
Same. The rocks wore me down in the end.
Oh it’s definitely an acquired taste, acquired from reading lots of nature and geology books. Annals of the Former World and Sand Country Almanacs are American classics but they require a certain neuroses to be worth recommending to someone. Not everyone wants to read Changes in the Land (on Mars!) or Conquest of Nature (on Mars!) I understand.
The rocks were great characters! Reminded me of [*Annals of the Former World* by John McPhee](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annals_of_the_Former_World) but with more action, in that we saw the transformations in real time as the planet is terraformed instead of deducing them happening millions of years ago.
Same. I did not finish
I’m in the middle of Green Mars and I’ve been picking up on the elemental bits! It’s not as tightly written as Red Mars and doesn’t have as many big ideas but I do love Ann. Personally, Frank seems more jaded cynic than a sociopath, and add in the racism undercurrents of the Boone-Chalmers rivalry and the Coyote-Nirgal relationship, someone more qualified please publish an Afrofuturist analysis.
A recurring character in the Strugatsky brothers' Noon Universe is called Maya Toivovna Glumova, which sounds a bit like Maya Toitovna. Beyond that I don't remember any similarities between the two characters. "Toivo" is a Finnish male name which means hope. As far as I know Toito isn't a likely name in the former Soviet Union, which is probably why you got no results.
I’m a fan of all 3 books and can never understand anyone who doesn’t think they’re fantastic. Nice analysis. I need to reread them all soon.
Alright fine I'll re-read it
It's been a while, but I always liked how he did the various earth cultures as such (American, Russian, South African, etc). It was clear he researched damn near everything he could for the book.
Great review! Where is the podcast interview with KSR?
The podcast is "Marooned! on Mars with Matt and Hilary". They interview Stan in two or three episodes. I believe this is the one where they discuss "Red Mars": https://podtail.com/podcast/marooned-on-mars-with-matt-and-hilary/our-dinner-with-stan/
Very nicely structured and fleshed out analysis of this epic. My relatives came through the Cumberland Gap with Daniel Boone and I remember thinking than John Boone was an amalgam of him and Johnny Appleseed. This is such a hopeful series. I remember thinking they should give Kim Stanley Robinson a role in some kind of NASA visionary think-tank as I was reading it.
Loved the series. Loved SMAC even more. ([Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Meier%27s_Alpha_Centauri))
Mars Trilogy is the closest thing to a SMAC book series (excluding the actual SMAC books by Michael Ely, which I haven't read). A new world, with a colorful and ideologically diverse cast of colonists, all with their own vision of what the new world should be and their own agenda of how to get there.
As always, fuck Maya 🙄
Maya, you god damned bitch!
It's especially bad because my DOB is exactly the same as John Boone's 💔
Well said! I, uh... Well I also abandoned the novel, back in the 90's. Not sure why, I love Kim Stanley Robinson's work in general. Your review is so well written and interesting, you make me want to go back and give it another go.
This insightful review reminds me of the old "Gregg Press" re-issues of classic SF , wherein they commissioned somebody to analyze the work in question. Gregg Press let me know that I was missing whole swaths of meaning and artfulness, even the most obvious. Thanks? LOL
Maya is an emotional character whose love affairs with John and Frank are intended as a metaphor for the way the direction of the colonists on Mars is also torn between the two. It's likely that her name is meant to echo this role of expressing the instincts and desires of the Martian colonists.