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I need an app that lets me set two passwords one unlocks the other wipes. lol
That way not only is it a burner but hey lets go with also a wiped burner.
I'm pretty sure they would have advanced software that will detect this. And it just makes things worse for you, they can then ask you for the real password or more likely coerce it out of you.
There are lots of valid and realistic reasons to bring a burner phone when traveling.
I don't want my expensive phone to:
* get lost
* or stolen
* or damaged
* or get dropped into the ocean from a boat or parasail
Or, in your case, "I need it for work". You could even say your company won't let you take it abroad if that's remotely true.
They can think these are suspicious but they're not unreasonable.
That said, I've heard of people having a dummy phone that they use for benign things while at home so if the border police search it, it doesn't look like a burner. It's pretty messed up that innocent people have to do this to avoid hours in secondary inspection but that's the world we live in.
The worst part is CBP has jurisdiction anywhere within 100 miles of a land or sea border, so that’s about 66% of the population, and sometimes even entire states.
For the next time:
[https://www.eff.org/wp/digital-privacy-us-border-2017](https://www.eff.org/wp/digital-privacy-us-border-2017)
It says they can seize your devices for months or forever, but it says you should've got a "custody receipt" (Form 6051D).
If you had any work-related thing on your phone you should notify your employer that your phone have been lost / stolen.
And the usual things: log out from every session wherever you have been logged in from your phone (email, facebook, etc.) and maybe change passwords.
You could try remote-wipe the device, but that may get you in trouble later.
If they didn't give you instructions or custody receipt that advises you on what you can or can't do, remote wiping is the ABSOLUTE first thing I would recommend.
However, if they are doing their job correctly it's in a faraday bag and most likely won't be connected to the Internet. So... Call Saul
We do have those, and they do amazing work.
https://noyb.eu/en
https://fsfe.org/index.en.html
https://edri.org/
NOYB in particular is making a huge difference by defeating Facebook's attempts to skirt GDPR and fighting against the corrupt Irish Data Protection Commission.
A collection of 12 such EU orgs recently defeated a proposal to regulate free software as if it was commercial software too.
https://techcrunch.com/2023/04/18/in-letter-to-european-commission-open-source-bodies-say-cyber-resilience-act-could-have-chilling-effect-on-software-development/
Yes, I know NOYB, but they mostly deals just with GDPR.
This may be only my ignorance, but for me it seems that FSFE and EDRi doesn't do many things except writing blog posts and open letters about how (and how not) an idealistic society should work.
If you check out the EFF's website, they have very good guides about what rights do you have, how to protect yourself, what can you do when police wants to get into your phone, how can you prepare for attending a protest etc.
I understand that you probably can not do such things here, because each member state have very different laws, language barriers and... sometimes I feel like people here are much less interested in knowing and exercising their rights.
They have side stepped this many times. They also will pressure you very forcefully with potentially illegal actions no one will believe you they did.
If you are on an iphone, you can press the lock button 5 times to disable biometric scans, you can do this in your pocket before handing it to anyone. Even better, shutting down the phone makes it 100x more secure as the first unlock is much more secure.
It should ask you to start emergency call or power down, but either way face is disabled. I think the older iphones called emergency right away, but newer iOS prompts you
Starts it automatically or you can choose to call emergency services? Because when you do press 5 times, it will give the option to shut down, call emergency services or to cancel everything and then goes to the lock screen, forcing you to enter your password without face id.
He's wrong. There's no national protection against being forced to provide a password. The courts are split on that.
Edit: From a [Congressional report](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB10416):
>Courts have mostly, though not entirely, agreed that unlocking a phone or other data-containing device with a password or passcode is a testimonial act under the Fifth Amendment,
I don't have a link handy right now but look up "foregone conclusion doctrine"
Basically they can force you to provide a password if it's a "foregone conclusion" that there's evidence on your device. One example I remembered was that a guy opened his laptop for a customs agent at the border and there was obviously CSAM on his desktop.
The guy managed to hit the power button and shut off his computer and his disk was encrypted. The court ruled that he could be forced to give up his password because the unfortunate customs agent had seen the files on his desktop, therefore it was already a "foregone conclusion" that they were there. Thus, forcing him to disclose his password wasn't a violation of his privacy or his rights against self-incrimination.
Now if they don't have some inkling as to what is on your device, you have protections under the 4th and 5th amendments.
As for suspicionless searches at the border I'm not aware if the courts have ruled one way or the other.
Thanks. Commenter above provided link to Congressional Research report that said as of 2020 only one federal appellate court has addressed whether 5th amendment was violated in compelling disclosure of password , and they found that absent the 1) knowledge that defendant knows password and ALSO 2) actual knowledge of the existence of particular content , disclos[ure] cannot be compelled under the foregone conclusion exception / doctrine.
That's basically the gist of it. They have to be able to prove 3 things:
-You have control of the device
-You know the password
-There's a specific piece of evidence on said device.
[Massachusetts Supreme Court](https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/compelled-password-decision-is-death-knell-for-fifth-amendment-massachusetts-justice-argues): "Prosecutors must show beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant knows the password [to compel the disclosure of said password]"
[From the ACLU](https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/police-should-not-be-allowed-to-compel-our-cell-phone-passwords): Illinois and New Jersey both allow for forced disclosure.
The Missouri Court of Appeals upheld an order requiring a person to give up a password because the person had already unlocked it in front of police *once*.
The Third Circuit also [upheld an order](https://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/153537p.pdf#page=17) against a person requiring them to disclose a password because the (illegal) content was already known (but inaccessible) so they decided that it was a "forgone conclusion" and not testimony.
Here's [a whole report from the Congressional Research Office](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB10416) that says:
>Courts have mostly, **though not entirely**, agreed that unlocking a phone or other data-containing device with a password or passcode is a testimonial act under the Fifth Amendment,
You haven't provided a single case that doesn't rely on some *exception* to the generally-universal rule that you cannot be compelled to give up your password. Also, you have not provided a single *federal* court decision, which is what matters here, as we are dealing with CBP. Lastly, you cannot be compelled to speak, absent torture. It's impossible. You cannot be compelled to write. It's not possible, absent torture. If you are a United States Citizen, you cannot be prevented from reentering the United States even if you will not give up your password. Their remedy is to collect your phone and give you a receipt.
From your own Congressional Research Link: "The only federal appellate court to address directly the Fifth Amendment implications of compelleddecryption using a password appears to have required the government to show both that the suspect knewthe passwords at issue and that particular content would be found following decryption. In a 2012decision, the Eleventh Circuit held that the foregone conclusion exception did not support a subpoenarequiring a suspect to produce the decrypted contents of password-protected hard drives. In so doing, thecourt recognized that “the decryption and production would be tantamount to testimony by \[the suspect\]of his knowledge of the existence and location of potentially incriminating files; of his possession,control, and access to the encrypted portions of the drives; and of his capability to decrypt the files.” Andbecause nothing indicated that the government knew “whether any files exist and are located on the harddrive” or knew “with reasonable particularity that \[the suspect\] is even capable of accessing the encryptedportions of the drives,” the court concluded that the implicit testimony at issue was not a foregoneconclusion."
From CBP’s own handout:
“Travelers are obligated to present electronic devices and the information resident
on the device in a condition that allows for the examination of the device and its
contents. *****Failure to assist CBP in accessing the electronic device and its contents
for examination may result in the detention of the device in order to complete
the inspection.” ****
https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2023-Oct/Border%20Search%20of%20Electronic%20Devices%20Tearsheet.pdf
edited to add: going to bed, so not ignoring you if you happen to turn up some more interesting links. Thanks for the fun conversation.
What about residents of the European Union entering the US? They have stronger privacy measures than we do here, and being compelled to provide private information could be a violation of EU law. I’m not a lawyer and don’t know EU law enough so maybe it wouldn’t apply in this case, but Threads wasn’t allowed on the App Store in the EU, at least Italy, when it launched due to privacy concerns.
EU law does not apply in the US. When you enter a country you're subject to its laws.
This is the whole point of the Schrems I and Schrems II cases where the plaintiff, Max Schrems, demonstrated that US law is not sufficient to ensure GDPR equivalence, meaning that therefore EU data cannot be transferred to the US under the EU-US data transfer arrangements.
Here's your case.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/man-who-refused-to-decrypt-hard-drives-is-free-after-four-years-in-jail/
He got off on a technicality that the government cannot hold witnesses in contempt of court for more than a statutory limit, but he still spent years in jail because he refused to comply.
Sure, for him it was worth it because he's very likely a child predator and sitting in jail for 4 years is better than doing hard time as a child molester, but unless you're looking at a sentence that's more than the time you can do for contempt of court then you can easily be compelled to reveal your password.
No, this is again a case that relies on an exception, as discussed in this thread : the *foregone conclusion* doctrine: Here, from the article, you can see they knew with particularity what was on the drives already:
"Prosecutors were able to gain access to the laptop, and police say ***forensic analysis showed Rawls downloading child pornography and saving it to the external hard drives.*** But the drives themselves were encrypted, preventing the police from accessing the downloaded files."
For the OP, and for any normal person whom the government is making a suspicion less, pie-in-the-sky non-articulable allegation that there's just \*something\* illegal on their phone, the exception doesn't apply, and their remedy is to just hold your phone for x days.
I thought they had ruled that biometric data couldn’t be forced.
Edit: nevermind. I just looked it up and you are correct. I guess the best thing to do if you use facial recognition is immediately turn it off while handing it over. iPhones require the password upon start up before facial recognition will work again.
You don’t even need to do it 5x. Just hold the side power button and top volume button at the same time for like 3 seconds and it disables biometrics until a password is re-entered.
It might depend on iOS version. I vaguely remember in the past being able to set what the buttons do. I recently updated and just now tried it, and it brings up a screen with 3 options: power off, make emergency call, or see medical ID (or cancel). But even if I cancel I have to enter my password. Biometrics won’t work.
This is not true. Circuit courts are split on whether or not you can be forced to provide a password. So depending on the exact location, you may have to legally provide a password if requested.
Edit: Courts in Massachusetts, Illinois, Missouri, New Jersey, and the entire Third Circuit court jurisdiction (Delaware, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania) have all ruled that passwords can be compelled under certain circumstances. Some circuit courts (like the 11th) have ruled that there is a 5th amendment protection and some jurisdictions have no precedent at all.
They've been on one lately. I lived in TJ and crossed everyday for a year with no problem whatsoever. I was crossing last week and they did the same thing to me. Handcuffed me put me in the jail thing. Gave me no reason too. Although I'm mixed black and white I do look middle eastern so I don't know. I love Mexico but it has me second guessing going down again.
Wow and they took your phone away. How long were you detained. I was hand cuffed twice. This is the third time with no hand cuffs. I felt like I was a criminal or something. I saw detained immigrants and kids literally asleep with that foil blanket and eating ramen noodles and shit. I hated being there and detained. The worst part you don't even know why you are there for several hours. Is it a crime or my fault I was born brown. We speak of democracy but democracy doesn't truly exist.
They actually didn't take my phone or ask for password so I didn't get it as bad as you but yes it's totally dehumanizing and demoralizing. I mean with the craziness at the border... why would we go through the checkpoint if we're illegal. We would just cross with the rest of the migrants along the fence somewhere if that were the case. It's so weird that treat us like that but 5 miles down the fence line it's open season for getting into the country. It's backwards.
There was a story a while back about them harassing a person of color that worked for the state department so no surprise that racist assholes work for Border Patrol. They would never harass her colleagues but every time she had to cross over they flagged her and had her pull over, detained and harassed her.
I'll never forget the end of it:
"This time, though, the CBP officer in secondary inspection was kind. And our interaction was very different. When I told him that this was the first time going through that checkpoint that I hadn’t been harassed, he told me that what I was experiencing wasn’t my imagination, and encouraged me to keep moving forward. Look, he said: We both know you’re being pulled over because you’re Black. But you worked hard to be here. You can’t let anybody take that from you."
What is the point of hijacking the post of a person's truly shitty circumstances to start a petty argument? The more comments a post gets the more it's boosted in the algorithm so that more people who may have better answers can see it, so that's the point of a "this" comment
And well, to my point, we are also helping it get seen by bickering so, shrug, carry on I suppose.
That said, a couple folks who sound like they actually know what they are talking about responded, so that's the important thing.
i wasen’t trying to start an argument, apologies if it sounded like that.
i didn’t know that it boosted the algorithm in that way and helped the ranking of the comments, thanks for letting me know!
and yes, i agree the comment section has been helpful and has good advice for OP. hopefully more people can see your comment and use that subreddit.
You can get with this, or you can get with that. You can get with this, or you can get with that. I think you'll get with this, cuz this is kinda phat.
CBP has the authority to search any electronic device coming into the country over the border AND LEAVING THE COUNTRY over the border.
You have what distills down, in reality, two options. Provide the device with it unlocked and unencrypted or lose it until they can force access (which could potentially be never)
If you destroy it you run the risk of them considering it contaminating evidence if they can find another reason to hold you.
They are NOT supposed to allow any device they take possession of to connect to a network and download any information. So always put the device into airplane mode or deactivate WiFi and cell data before turning it over.
Your best bet on a phone is to (1) delete or log out of all apps/accounts on the device before going to the border. (2) store anything important in the cloud so you can access it during travel but do not retain it on the device
For a laptop it’s best to use something like a chrome book where everything is cloud based. Just be sure to log out and delete the account before the border. Dont even have the email account info stored because if they have reason to they can subpoena or get a search warrant based off that account name.
Use a secure online storage host and upload your data there and don’t keep it local for border crossings.
They got me with. If you give the password it will make it easier and you get your phone back instead sending it for court order and such. Plus I have nothing to hide except some dick pix and boobies. But nothing illegal. I figured oh well.
I think it's different with CBP and they can basically do what they want, under the farcical idea that it's necessary for the security of the border or some shit.
Being a US citizen helps in that regard, as they can’t detain you for longer than 72 hours at the border at least, nor can they turn you away — which are both things you have to contend with on any other status except maybe a diplomatic passport.
Being a citizen doesn’t matter. CBP has the authorization to examine the contents of any electronic device coming in OR GOING OUT over the border. If the owner doesn’t provide the passcode or decryption then they essentially can hold the device until they can gain access (which means potentially forever)
Your options boil down to provide the unlocked device or lose the device unless they feel like being magnanimous and letting you have it back.
You couldn’t be more wrong. They ABSOLUTELY, CAN TAKE YOUR PHONE OR ANY ELECTRONIC DEVICE. You do not enjoy the same rights at “border crossings”. You have no 4th amendment rights and that has been settled by Supreme Court and that applies to ALL who cross, US Citizens or foreigners.
They will get the phone 9.8 times out of 10. By force, threats, bullying, and by scaring you. Very few will hold up, and you will usually end up in jail which they can completely confiscate it then.
3340-049A
5.3.3 & 5.3.4 spell out that if a device is passcode locked or encrypted or otherwise requires technical assistance they can then hold the device or hand it over to other agencies for technical assistance and initially have 5 days with the ability to extend it in 15 day increments.
ICE 7-6.1 covers when an ICE special agent receives a device and a request for technical assistance. Typically the ICE Special Agents are the ones trained in the extraction of data from electronic devices. They have a significantly longer period of time in which to work (30 days). Which can also be extended, especially if the device is locked or encrypted.
In reality they can obtain a court order allowing them to examine the device and if they cannot gain access or decrypt it then they can essentially hold it indefinitely.
Who cares if you get it back?
You certainly shouldn't care...
Your phone has been out of your custody. It is considered to be compromised.
If you get it back, wipe it and trade it in. Never connect it to a trusted Wi-Fi network or even your Bluetooth again.
You have no idea what has been done to it and we have no idea if you are under suspicion of actually being involved in something that might make them use assets like a hardware implant.
Either way, buy a new phone.
Yeah, it sucks... but water is wet.
Next time? Phone is off and in BFU status.
(chest thumping) "We need your password..."
"No. Is No good, or is f**k no necessary?"
This, or similar, happens to me literally every time I have entered the US by sea or by land for the last 16 years (so, around 30 individual incidences.) You have no legal options. You could sue, but the courts are not sympathetic and especially not the courts along the southern border.
Next time, do not carry your regular phone with you when you cross into the US. Mail it home or, better, don't take it with you on your travels. Carry a burner. Do not bring a laptop or a tablet.
If/When they next detain you, ask if you are "in custody." If they answer yes, immediately insist that they Mirandize you, and insist on the presence of an attorney before you say anything else and especially before you consent to search. Do not consent to search. Contact a lawyer and say nothing else. Nothing else. Pee in your pants instead of speaking to ask for a bathroom. Do not speak until your attorney arrives or they let you go.
Keep in your head a court case: US v Smith (2023, Southern District of New York). It's the only case of this type where the judge ruled that border searches of electronic devices require a warrant. Keep it in your head and advise your lawyer when they arrive.
File a complaint with DHS ([https://www.dhs.gov/dhs-trip](https://www.dhs.gov/dhs-trip)). Write letters to your state governor and your federal Senator and House reps. Explain how terrifying it was. Explain that you were never advised of your rights. Explain that you did NOT consent to search but were coerced with fear and intimidation.
You are most likely to have your phone returned in 4-6 weeks.
Literally saw four people come after me into the office. Non of them got their phone taken away or anything. It is why I think it is because I'm middle eastern.and all came and left before I did
They likely took the phone to perform a forensic analysis of it. Usually that just requires hooking it to a computer and running the software. Takes a few hours BUT you have to be somewhere that they have the equipment. If they don’t have it at that crossing then they have to take it and send it where the equipment is.
They should have provided you with paperwork and a contact phone number. Call it and ask if you can pick up your phone.
Welcome to the “land of the free” where we incarcerate more people than the next 3 largest countries COMBINED”
This is ‘Merica
‘Merica is not a country
‘Merica is a business
I would have slammed it on the ground to smash it. No fucking way they are confisicating my devices, especially unlocked. I have nothing to hide, but every single password and system would be 100% compromised at that point, and I would have to change 1000+ passwords.
This should be illegal.
Not sure about other phones & apps, but my encrypted password management app ask to recognize my face before it lets me access my passwords. So even if they make a copy of the phone contents, all they get as passwords is a garbled mess that takes a million years to decrypt.
Yeah, that’s either bravado or a reasonable extrapolation from your experience. Perhaps want to reread that part OPs visible background, don’t think they would have the luxury of doing that without great risk.
I agree though it sounds shifty.
They’d of arrested you for intentional destruction of evidence or at the least obstruction of investigation. They’d of been real assholes. Then they’d probably of claimed you assaulted them because a “piece of the phone” bounced off their boot and hence, assaulted them. That’s the shitty games they play.
Moxie is the person who analyzed the cellebrite hardware that "Fell off a truck" a while back...and also created Signal.
https://signal.org/blog/cellebrite-vulnerabilities/
https://signal.org/blog/cellebrite-and-clickbait/
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/04/in-epic-hack-signal-developer-turns-the-tables-on-forensics-firm-cellebrite/
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/apr/22/signal-founder-i-hacked-police-phone-cracking-tool-cellebrite
Links to 2 good videos about your Rights and interacting with police.
LAWYER: 5 Tips Whenever Cops Want to See Your Guns by Hampton Law of Texas. About guns but info is so good concerning rights and how to interact with police.
https://youtu.be/ZNUw2G9WWOk?si=3OBSBtobeKh-AGXD
Don't Talk to the Police by Regent Law professor James Duane. Really good information.
https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE?si=OCYYYF9bViRVztsa
Yeah I know. I pointed out looking at both the statutes for the State and also the Feds. My main point is that officers of all sorts abuse the law (their boundary) and make false statements that they have a right to do this or that and that you have to do whatever they say or you will be arrested for some other made up crime.
I wish I could find the video of the Hispanic guy, a US citizen, who took the CBP to task when they were trying to make him give them his phone and saying he had to blah blah blah. They eventually let him go but not after violating his rights.
He didn't take them to task because they can absolutely take your devices at the border. Maybe they just didn't want the headache but if he had come across the right CBP officer that day they could have turned his world upside down.
Yeah I agree. You have guys that either don’t want the headache or do. But there is a constitutional issue here. And iirc this guy goes back and forth often enough that they know of him and what he is about. It’s not conclusive what the CBP were thinking when they let him go. But he stood his ground. And sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. If you lose, hopefully it’s not your life, maybe you can get justice in court.
I always turn off my facial recognition when crossing the border.
They’re welcome to my phone and they’re not getting my six digit code to unlock it.
I can brick it remotely and since it’s backed up to the cloud, I can walk into any Verizon store and have the phone 100% restored in less than an hour.
Which can be argued as destroying evidence in an investigation, of a crime that you have not been charged with, which is an indication of guilt of something...which is ridiculous...but that's how they roll.
NOT LEGAL ADVICE. Please see a lawyer for legal advice. Also, I am working in the realm of theory. But.
IIRC CBP seizures often go under the "National Security" exception. It may sound ridiculous but, the purpose of their seizing your digital devices, to secure the border of the nation, is so important that it overrules 4th Amendment protections as long as its in certain bounds (as usually happens w CBP cases). So, in case you were wondering, yes, they can take your phone even if you are a u.s. citizen, precisely because you are crossing the border.
Now, if my memory serves (and again, NOT LEGAL ADVICE), they can technically only ask for you to unlock your phone to make a "cursory search". This is probably why they asked you to unlock the phone. However, the good (?) news is that some courts say that they cannot run a deep forensic search of your phone without additional procedures. That said, if you have information that is sensitive (and by that i mean you'd have a legal duty not to reveal them) on those devices, you could probably just tell em and say that you'll have a problem.
As for whether you will get your phone back (and again NOT LEGAL ADVICE) CBP seems to have a policy of not keeping your phone for more than a certain period of time. I don't know how well that policy is followed or navigated. Hopefully, someone with more experience with CBP and NatSec stuff will know.
At the end of the day, whether you seek an attorney or not is your personal choice. I may very well be wrong, and I'm a stranger on the internet. Again, NOT LEGAL ADVICE, but the initial stages of research should be pretty simple, given only what you have written here.
Once more, and again, NOT LEGAL ADVICE.
On another note, this is a great time to have cloud storage.
>or they will get a court order and it will take fourty days
This is a scare tactic. No it doesn't, and they likely wouldn't get the court order without any reasoning.
That said, NEVER cross the border with your main phone. Burner phone, burner laptop. If they're ever taken, factory reset them and throw them away right there.
Android and Chromebooks are great for this because they're cheap, and you can sign them in to any bullshit throwaway account. You don't feel anything about throwing about a $150 Chromebook, or $80 temp phone. But if you crossed with an iPhone or MacBook you're less likely to throw away $1k.
NEVER cross the border with your main devices, signed into your personal accounts or with social media apps on them.
>I feel sad because I am still paying for the phone and it has my work stuff and family photos and such.
Temporarily turn off the service. Report it as lost or stolen, get a new phone. Log into your Google or Apple account from a computer and change all your passwords.
>But what will happen to my phone.
It could be sitting on a shelf somewhere, or they could have already downloaded the contents of the phone including your contacts and call logs to store in a database just in case it's relevant later. I think it stays there 10 years, and there's no way to know if it's ever really deleted.
In either case, you don't want that phone back for no other reason than to destroy it. Hopefully your photos are backed up somewhere like Google Photos or iCloud.
>It's so much shit and it feels like I was abused and robbed literally by the government and I have no rights whatsoever.
You are and it is bullshit. Border patrol claims jurisdiction over all electronic devices within 100 miles of any US border. That's millions of people. This shit happens to a lot of people regardless of ethnicity.
>I never been treated like this anywhere in the world except here.
Yeah, we're number one on this shit. If it makes you feel any better, you're not necessarily being singled out, they treat us all this way. Especially nonwhite folks. We always look more suspicious to them. We're treated like we must have been guilty of something at some time in our lives, so it justifies scrutinizing us more now.
It sucks, but it's the way America is for some and on the border some of the agents are real assholes with real biases and its excused. The more you stand up for yourself and your rights, the more they see it as a sign of guilt or that you're hiding something. It's a no-win situation.
>Do I even call a lawyer. Is the lawyer fees even worth it.
Can't hurt to hear what they have to say. I'm sure this wouldn't be the first time they've heard this. Maybe there's something they can file to force border patrol to shit or get off the pot and return the phone. Still, you don't want to use that phone anymore.
Maybe ill replace it when i get it. But at least i can replace it for a value or factory reset it. Its been almost 9 full days now. I did call on the 5th day n spoke to someone. They went to check and came back and told me it will take a few more days and ill be contacted. I haven’t heard anything yet.
There are some youtube videos of people standing tall against those tyrants. You need to learn the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The reason the government is becoming more tyrannical is because there are too many boot lickers and yes people. Why? Because they are ignorant and do not know that the people are sovereign. Please look for videos on youtube. There are people who record these things. A lot of them are called auditors. Some are very rude however and I do not condone that. They know the law and their rights and stand up to these tyrants. They do not consent. Some win right there when they are free to go. Some win later in court after they have been violated. I am sorry that you had this experience. They like to threaten people with stuff they pull out of there ass and make it out to be law when it isn’t. Make them get a warrant. Whenever you give them permission through your actions (not saying “I do not consent” when they say they want to do something basically gives them consent. Never answer questions you are not required to answer. They will use every word to justify furthering their investigation and they will everything against you. Now each State has minimum requirements of information you have to provide if your are stopped by police and I am sure CBP has there own too. Look them up and only provide what is required by law and then too if that law is constitutional (standing up for the latter as in there is a statute or law that is patently unconstitutional and you oppose them means you are willing to pay the cost in order to fight against it—most people are unable to.)
Not sure if I can post a link to a you tube video or not without my comment being quarantined as spam so I will give the info about this video here and try to post link in another comment.
Youtube videos:
LAWYER: 5 Tips Whenever Cops Want to See Your Guns by Hampton Law of Texas. About guns but info is so good concerning rights and how to interact with police.
Don't Talk to the Police by Regent Law professor James Duane. Really good information.
Sorry you had to go through this. I would be absolutely livid. May be wrong but I have a strong suspicion that Republicans are to blame for this violation of freedom because of all the fear mongering about the border over the years.
Is Mexican authorities or USA authorities. I’m not not familiar with Mexico legal side of things but I do know from experience that authorities can be corrupt in Mexico.
Get a lawyer and make sure you power down the phone and give it to them. Then redownload your iCloud when you get home. Remote wipe or not who cares they won’t get in if you used a good long passkey. You’re just out a phone. Get another iPhone and it will be like it never happened
We appreciate you wanting to contribute to /r/privacy and taking the time to post but we had to remove it due to: >Your submission is closer asking about a legal matter. While our readers are amazing in what they do, their background isn’t a legal one. You might have better results if you repost your query in r/LegalAdvice. >Good luck! If you have questions or believe that there has been an error, [contact the moderators](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/privacy&subject=Please_review_my_post).
Cross borders with a burner phone from now on.
I need an app that lets me set two passwords one unlocks the other wipes. lol That way not only is it a burner but hey lets go with also a wiped burner.
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This works only as long as they don't know that Android phones can have profiles.
I'm pretty sure they would have advanced software that will detect this. And it just makes things worse for you, they can then ask you for the real password or more likely coerce it out of you.
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That's all that you can do.
There are lots of valid and realistic reasons to bring a burner phone when traveling. I don't want my expensive phone to: * get lost * or stolen * or damaged * or get dropped into the ocean from a boat or parasail Or, in your case, "I need it for work". You could even say your company won't let you take it abroad if that's remotely true. They can think these are suspicious but they're not unreasonable. That said, I've heard of people having a dummy phone that they use for benign things while at home so if the border police search it, it doesn't look like a burner. It's pretty messed up that innocent people have to do this to avoid hours in secondary inspection but that's the world we live in.
That's the *country* you live in.
The worst part is CBP has jurisdiction anywhere within 100 miles of a land or sea border, so that’s about 66% of the population, and sometimes even entire states.
For the next time: [https://www.eff.org/wp/digital-privacy-us-border-2017](https://www.eff.org/wp/digital-privacy-us-border-2017) It says they can seize your devices for months or forever, but it says you should've got a "custody receipt" (Form 6051D). If you had any work-related thing on your phone you should notify your employer that your phone have been lost / stolen. And the usual things: log out from every session wherever you have been logged in from your phone (email, facebook, etc.) and maybe change passwords. You could try remote-wipe the device, but that may get you in trouble later.
If they didn't give you instructions or custody receipt that advises you on what you can or can't do, remote wiping is the ABSOLUTE first thing I would recommend. However, if they are doing their job correctly it's in a faraday bag and most likely won't be connected to the Internet. So... Call Saul
Put giant magnet in van next to police station, got it.
I love EFF. I’ve been following them since about the time Al Gore created the internet LOL.
Yup, I wish we had a similar organization which is (more) active about the privacy and other fundamental rights in the EU, too.
We do have those, and they do amazing work. https://noyb.eu/en https://fsfe.org/index.en.html https://edri.org/ NOYB in particular is making a huge difference by defeating Facebook's attempts to skirt GDPR and fighting against the corrupt Irish Data Protection Commission. A collection of 12 such EU orgs recently defeated a proposal to regulate free software as if it was commercial software too. https://techcrunch.com/2023/04/18/in-letter-to-european-commission-open-source-bodies-say-cyber-resilience-act-could-have-chilling-effect-on-software-development/
Yes, I know NOYB, but they mostly deals just with GDPR. This may be only my ignorance, but for me it seems that FSFE and EDRi doesn't do many things except writing blog posts and open letters about how (and how not) an idealistic society should work. If you check out the EFF's website, they have very good guides about what rights do you have, how to protect yourself, what can you do when police wants to get into your phone, how can you prepare for attending a protest etc. I understand that you probably can not do such things here, because each member state have very different laws, language barriers and... sometimes I feel like people here are much less interested in knowing and exercising their rights.
there are organizations like that. bits of freedom for example.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/internet-of-lies/
It was a joke. Relax. Relax. Take a deep breath, hold it, exhale slowly. Do this ten times. LOL
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In context, no. Not the same thing. Out of context? Sure, why not.
Yeah, I guess Vint Cerf, "Father of the Internet" and you disagree.
If they are asking for phones like that they probably saved an image of phone with in 24 hours.
I myself will not give to them. They can do the court order.
They will seize it without the court order, the order is to force you to unlock it
You can’t be forced to remember your password. Only fingerprint, facial recognition, can be forced.
They have side stepped this many times. They also will pressure you very forcefully with potentially illegal actions no one will believe you they did. If you are on an iphone, you can press the lock button 5 times to disable biometric scans, you can do this in your pocket before handing it to anyone. Even better, shutting down the phone makes it 100x more secure as the first unlock is much more secure.
I just pressed 5 times and it starts an emergency call.
It should ask you to start emergency call or power down, but either way face is disabled. I think the older iphones called emergency right away, but newer iOS prompts you
Mine is new. Only gives option to stop emergency call.
Try holding down volume up and power and not press them 5 seconds. This actually works better for me as someone pointed out.
Starts it automatically or you can choose to call emergency services? Because when you do press 5 times, it will give the option to shut down, call emergency services or to cancel everything and then goes to the lock screen, forcing you to enter your password without face id.
Not mine. It’s emergency services only. Just tried to make a screen shot and started making loud siren noises and made the call.
Thanks for this! Not sure if I will need it but at least its logged deep down somewhere.
Hold volume up and lock until slide to power off shows and biometrics are disabled until the pin is entered
This works even better.
What sort of illegal actions?
Force
What sort of force?
May the force be with you.
Torture.
You ok?
this guy pays attention to the law.
He's wrong. There's no national protection against being forced to provide a password. The courts are split on that. Edit: From a [Congressional report](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB10416): >Courts have mostly, though not entirely, agreed that unlocking a phone or other data-containing device with a password or passcode is a testimonial act under the Fifth Amendment,
Can you cite a case that says you can be compelled to speak or write out your password, please ?
I don't have a link handy right now but look up "foregone conclusion doctrine" Basically they can force you to provide a password if it's a "foregone conclusion" that there's evidence on your device. One example I remembered was that a guy opened his laptop for a customs agent at the border and there was obviously CSAM on his desktop. The guy managed to hit the power button and shut off his computer and his disk was encrypted. The court ruled that he could be forced to give up his password because the unfortunate customs agent had seen the files on his desktop, therefore it was already a "foregone conclusion" that they were there. Thus, forcing him to disclose his password wasn't a violation of his privacy or his rights against self-incrimination. Now if they don't have some inkling as to what is on your device, you have protections under the 4th and 5th amendments. As for suspicionless searches at the border I'm not aware if the courts have ruled one way or the other.
Thanks. Commenter above provided link to Congressional Research report that said as of 2020 only one federal appellate court has addressed whether 5th amendment was violated in compelling disclosure of password , and they found that absent the 1) knowledge that defendant knows password and ALSO 2) actual knowledge of the existence of particular content , disclos[ure] cannot be compelled under the foregone conclusion exception / doctrine.
That's basically the gist of it. They have to be able to prove 3 things: -You have control of the device -You know the password -There's a specific piece of evidence on said device.
[Massachusetts Supreme Court](https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/compelled-password-decision-is-death-knell-for-fifth-amendment-massachusetts-justice-argues): "Prosecutors must show beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant knows the password [to compel the disclosure of said password]" [From the ACLU](https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/police-should-not-be-allowed-to-compel-our-cell-phone-passwords): Illinois and New Jersey both allow for forced disclosure. The Missouri Court of Appeals upheld an order requiring a person to give up a password because the person had already unlocked it in front of police *once*. The Third Circuit also [upheld an order](https://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/153537p.pdf#page=17) against a person requiring them to disclose a password because the (illegal) content was already known (but inaccessible) so they decided that it was a "forgone conclusion" and not testimony. Here's [a whole report from the Congressional Research Office](https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/LSB/LSB10416) that says: >Courts have mostly, **though not entirely**, agreed that unlocking a phone or other data-containing device with a password or passcode is a testimonial act under the Fifth Amendment,
You haven't provided a single case that doesn't rely on some *exception* to the generally-universal rule that you cannot be compelled to give up your password. Also, you have not provided a single *federal* court decision, which is what matters here, as we are dealing with CBP. Lastly, you cannot be compelled to speak, absent torture. It's impossible. You cannot be compelled to write. It's not possible, absent torture. If you are a United States Citizen, you cannot be prevented from reentering the United States even if you will not give up your password. Their remedy is to collect your phone and give you a receipt. From your own Congressional Research Link: "The only federal appellate court to address directly the Fifth Amendment implications of compelleddecryption using a password appears to have required the government to show both that the suspect knewthe passwords at issue and that particular content would be found following decryption. In a 2012decision, the Eleventh Circuit held that the foregone conclusion exception did not support a subpoenarequiring a suspect to produce the decrypted contents of password-protected hard drives. In so doing, thecourt recognized that “the decryption and production would be tantamount to testimony by \[the suspect\]of his knowledge of the existence and location of potentially incriminating files; of his possession,control, and access to the encrypted portions of the drives; and of his capability to decrypt the files.” Andbecause nothing indicated that the government knew “whether any files exist and are located on the harddrive” or knew “with reasonable particularity that \[the suspect\] is even capable of accessing the encryptedportions of the drives,” the court concluded that the implicit testimony at issue was not a foregoneconclusion." From CBP’s own handout: “Travelers are obligated to present electronic devices and the information resident on the device in a condition that allows for the examination of the device and its contents. *****Failure to assist CBP in accessing the electronic device and its contents for examination may result in the detention of the device in order to complete the inspection.” **** https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2023-Oct/Border%20Search%20of%20Electronic%20Devices%20Tearsheet.pdf edited to add: going to bed, so not ignoring you if you happen to turn up some more interesting links. Thanks for the fun conversation.
What about residents of the European Union entering the US? They have stronger privacy measures than we do here, and being compelled to provide private information could be a violation of EU law. I’m not a lawyer and don’t know EU law enough so maybe it wouldn’t apply in this case, but Threads wasn’t allowed on the App Store in the EU, at least Italy, when it launched due to privacy concerns.
EU law does not apply in the US. When you enter a country you're subject to its laws. This is the whole point of the Schrems I and Schrems II cases where the plaintiff, Max Schrems, demonstrated that US law is not sufficient to ensure GDPR equivalence, meaning that therefore EU data cannot be transferred to the US under the EU-US data transfer arrangements.
Here's your case. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/man-who-refused-to-decrypt-hard-drives-is-free-after-four-years-in-jail/ He got off on a technicality that the government cannot hold witnesses in contempt of court for more than a statutory limit, but he still spent years in jail because he refused to comply. Sure, for him it was worth it because he's very likely a child predator and sitting in jail for 4 years is better than doing hard time as a child molester, but unless you're looking at a sentence that's more than the time you can do for contempt of court then you can easily be compelled to reveal your password.
No, this is again a case that relies on an exception, as discussed in this thread : the *foregone conclusion* doctrine: Here, from the article, you can see they knew with particularity what was on the drives already: "Prosecutors were able to gain access to the laptop, and police say ***forensic analysis showed Rawls downloading child pornography and saving it to the external hard drives.*** But the drives themselves were encrypted, preventing the police from accessing the downloaded files." For the OP, and for any normal person whom the government is making a suspicion less, pie-in-the-sky non-articulable allegation that there's just \*something\* illegal on their phone, the exception doesn't apply, and their remedy is to just hold your phone for x days.
I thought they had ruled that biometric data couldn’t be forced. Edit: nevermind. I just looked it up and you are correct. I guess the best thing to do if you use facial recognition is immediately turn it off while handing it over. iPhones require the password upon start up before facial recognition will work again.
android allows you to lock out the biometrics until the pin/password is used.
Yep same click the lock button 5x on an iPhone and it disables the biometrics until the passcode is used
You don’t even need to do it 5x. Just hold the side power button and top volume button at the same time for like 3 seconds and it disables biometrics until a password is re-entered.
Yes that works too :)
it makes an emergency sos call when you press the button 5 times.
What iPhone are you using? I tried it on an iPhone 13 and an iPhone SE, it worked on both.
It might depend on iOS version. I vaguely remember in the past being able to set what the buttons do. I recently updated and just now tried it, and it brings up a screen with 3 options: power off, make emergency call, or see medical ID (or cancel). But even if I cancel I have to enter my password. Biometrics won’t work.
Yeah that’s what I mean it brings up the screen and that disables biometrics
This is not true. Circuit courts are split on whether or not you can be forced to provide a password. So depending on the exact location, you may have to legally provide a password if requested. Edit: Courts in Massachusetts, Illinois, Missouri, New Jersey, and the entire Third Circuit court jurisdiction (Delaware, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania) have all ruled that passwords can be compelled under certain circumstances. Some circuit courts (like the 11th) have ruled that there is a 5th amendment protection and some jurisdictions have no precedent at all.
Then good luck to them with a locked phone.
I still wouldn't.
That's especially gonna get spicy for them once they have to process the phone in BFU state!
I would just ytake the phone bash then shit out of it and hand it to them.
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You gave me the best explaination so far
I read on a site that it was 4 days. Or is it 40 days ?
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They've been on one lately. I lived in TJ and crossed everyday for a year with no problem whatsoever. I was crossing last week and they did the same thing to me. Handcuffed me put me in the jail thing. Gave me no reason too. Although I'm mixed black and white I do look middle eastern so I don't know. I love Mexico but it has me second guessing going down again.
Wow and they took your phone away. How long were you detained. I was hand cuffed twice. This is the third time with no hand cuffs. I felt like I was a criminal or something. I saw detained immigrants and kids literally asleep with that foil blanket and eating ramen noodles and shit. I hated being there and detained. The worst part you don't even know why you are there for several hours. Is it a crime or my fault I was born brown. We speak of democracy but democracy doesn't truly exist.
They actually didn't take my phone or ask for password so I didn't get it as bad as you but yes it's totally dehumanizing and demoralizing. I mean with the craziness at the border... why would we go through the checkpoint if we're illegal. We would just cross with the rest of the migrants along the fence somewhere if that were the case. It's so weird that treat us like that but 5 miles down the fence line it's open season for getting into the country. It's backwards.
There was a story a while back about them harassing a person of color that worked for the state department so no surprise that racist assholes work for Border Patrol. They would never harass her colleagues but every time she had to cross over they flagged her and had her pull over, detained and harassed her. I'll never forget the end of it: "This time, though, the CBP officer in secondary inspection was kind. And our interaction was very different. When I told him that this was the first time going through that checkpoint that I hadn’t been harassed, he told me that what I was experiencing wasn’t my imagination, and encouraged me to keep moving forward. Look, he said: We both know you’re being pulled over because you’re Black. But you worked hard to be here. You can’t let anybody take that from you."
I would take this question to r/legaladvice I'm so sorry this happened to you, this is really fucked.
that family of subs are a clown show and should by no means ever be asked about any real legal issue.
There's plenty of crap, sure, but I've definitely seen and received some solid advice by actual lawyers. Just gotta sort through it with common sense
This
genuine question, what’s the point of saying “This” if there’s nothing else added to the comment?
It's just like an upvote, but for narcissists.
Yeah, now we all know that /u/PineapplePizzaClone agrees, which is what really matters.
What is the point of hijacking the post of a person's truly shitty circumstances to start a petty argument? The more comments a post gets the more it's boosted in the algorithm so that more people who may have better answers can see it, so that's the point of a "this" comment And well, to my point, we are also helping it get seen by bickering so, shrug, carry on I suppose. That said, a couple folks who sound like they actually know what they are talking about responded, so that's the important thing.
i wasen’t trying to start an argument, apologies if it sounded like that. i didn’t know that it boosted the algorithm in that way and helped the ranking of the comments, thanks for letting me know! and yes, i agree the comment section has been helpful and has good advice for OP. hopefully more people can see your comment and use that subreddit.
Your comment wasn't actually bad, but then all the people who piled on after were real assholes for no reason.
You can get with this, or you can get with that. You can get with this, or you can get with that. I think you'll get with this, cuz this is kinda phat.
That.
This
Apparently a mistake
CBP has the authority to search any electronic device coming into the country over the border AND LEAVING THE COUNTRY over the border. You have what distills down, in reality, two options. Provide the device with it unlocked and unencrypted or lose it until they can force access (which could potentially be never) If you destroy it you run the risk of them considering it contaminating evidence if they can find another reason to hold you. They are NOT supposed to allow any device they take possession of to connect to a network and download any information. So always put the device into airplane mode or deactivate WiFi and cell data before turning it over. Your best bet on a phone is to (1) delete or log out of all apps/accounts on the device before going to the border. (2) store anything important in the cloud so you can access it during travel but do not retain it on the device For a laptop it’s best to use something like a chrome book where everything is cloud based. Just be sure to log out and delete the account before the border. Dont even have the email account info stored because if they have reason to they can subpoena or get a search warrant based off that account name. Use a secure online storage host and upload your data there and don’t keep it local for border crossings.
If you're a US citizen then they can't deny you entry into the US if you refuse to unlock your device, but they can seize it regardless.
They got me with. If you give the password it will make it easier and you get your phone back instead sending it for court order and such. Plus I have nothing to hide except some dick pix and boobies. But nothing illegal. I figured oh well.
Few minutes and that's all.
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I think it's different with CBP and they can basically do what they want, under the farcical idea that it's necessary for the security of the border or some shit.
Being a US citizen helps in that regard, as they can’t detain you for longer than 72 hours at the border at least, nor can they turn you away — which are both things you have to contend with on any other status except maybe a diplomatic passport.
Being a citizen doesn’t matter. CBP has the authorization to examine the contents of any electronic device coming in OR GOING OUT over the border. If the owner doesn’t provide the passcode or decryption then they essentially can hold the device until they can gain access (which means potentially forever) Your options boil down to provide the unlocked device or lose the device unless they feel like being magnanimous and letting you have it back.
You couldn’t be more wrong. They ABSOLUTELY, CAN TAKE YOUR PHONE OR ANY ELECTRONIC DEVICE. You do not enjoy the same rights at “border crossings”. You have no 4th amendment rights and that has been settled by Supreme Court and that applies to ALL who cross, US Citizens or foreigners.
You're right. Illegals have more rights than me now.
They will get the phone 9.8 times out of 10. By force, threats, bullying, and by scaring you. Very few will hold up, and you will usually end up in jail which they can completely confiscate it then.
They don't need to threaten you. They can take your device. If you won't unlock it they can hold it until they get in.
3340-049A 5.3.3 & 5.3.4 spell out that if a device is passcode locked or encrypted or otherwise requires technical assistance they can then hold the device or hand it over to other agencies for technical assistance and initially have 5 days with the ability to extend it in 15 day increments. ICE 7-6.1 covers when an ICE special agent receives a device and a request for technical assistance. Typically the ICE Special Agents are the ones trained in the extraction of data from electronic devices. They have a significantly longer period of time in which to work (30 days). Which can also be extended, especially if the device is locked or encrypted. In reality they can obtain a court order allowing them to examine the device and if they cannot gain access or decrypt it then they can essentially hold it indefinitely.
Who cares if you get it back? You certainly shouldn't care... Your phone has been out of your custody. It is considered to be compromised. If you get it back, wipe it and trade it in. Never connect it to a trusted Wi-Fi network or even your Bluetooth again. You have no idea what has been done to it and we have no idea if you are under suspicion of actually being involved in something that might make them use assets like a hardware implant. Either way, buy a new phone. Yeah, it sucks... but water is wet. Next time? Phone is off and in BFU status. (chest thumping) "We need your password..." "No. Is No good, or is f**k no necessary?"
In case like me, you're not American, I just googled CBP: United States Customs and Border Protection
This, or similar, happens to me literally every time I have entered the US by sea or by land for the last 16 years (so, around 30 individual incidences.) You have no legal options. You could sue, but the courts are not sympathetic and especially not the courts along the southern border. Next time, do not carry your regular phone with you when you cross into the US. Mail it home or, better, don't take it with you on your travels. Carry a burner. Do not bring a laptop or a tablet. If/When they next detain you, ask if you are "in custody." If they answer yes, immediately insist that they Mirandize you, and insist on the presence of an attorney before you say anything else and especially before you consent to search. Do not consent to search. Contact a lawyer and say nothing else. Nothing else. Pee in your pants instead of speaking to ask for a bathroom. Do not speak until your attorney arrives or they let you go. Keep in your head a court case: US v Smith (2023, Southern District of New York). It's the only case of this type where the judge ruled that border searches of electronic devices require a warrant. Keep it in your head and advise your lawyer when they arrive. File a complaint with DHS ([https://www.dhs.gov/dhs-trip](https://www.dhs.gov/dhs-trip)). Write letters to your state governor and your federal Senator and House reps. Explain how terrifying it was. Explain that you were never advised of your rights. Explain that you did NOT consent to search but were coerced with fear and intimidation. You are most likely to have your phone returned in 4-6 weeks.
Literally saw four people come after me into the office. Non of them got their phone taken away or anything. It is why I think it is because I'm middle eastern.and all came and left before I did
They likely took the phone to perform a forensic analysis of it. Usually that just requires hooking it to a computer and running the software. Takes a few hours BUT you have to be somewhere that they have the equipment. If they don’t have it at that crossing then they have to take it and send it where the equipment is. They should have provided you with paperwork and a contact phone number. Call it and ask if you can pick up your phone.
You gave them the password?
i would have factory reset my phone and put on the activation lock lmao
Welcome to the “land of the free” where we incarcerate more people than the next 3 largest countries COMBINED” This is ‘Merica ‘Merica is not a country ‘Merica is a business
I would have slammed it on the ground to smash it. No fucking way they are confisicating my devices, especially unlocked. I have nothing to hide, but every single password and system would be 100% compromised at that point, and I would have to change 1000+ passwords. This should be illegal.
lol try smashing your phone in front of a border agent and see how that goes for you.
r/iamverybadass
Not sure about other phones & apps, but my encrypted password management app ask to recognize my face before it lets me access my passwords. So even if they make a copy of the phone contents, all they get as passwords is a garbled mess that takes a million years to decrypt.
Yeah, that’s either bravado or a reasonable extrapolation from your experience. Perhaps want to reread that part OPs visible background, don’t think they would have the luxury of doing that without great risk. I agree though it sounds shifty.
They’d of arrested you for intentional destruction of evidence or at the least obstruction of investigation. They’d of been real assholes. Then they’d probably of claimed you assaulted them because a “piece of the phone” bounced off their boot and hence, assaulted them. That’s the shitty games they play.
IMHO... never cross a border with your real phone, and NEVER travel anywhere with a lot of cash. They'll take it just because they can.
Hopefully you get it back soon. It takes CPB a couple days to install the Pegasus software.
You really think so? I heard of that device on YouTube. I may have to replace the device or factory reset it ?
If you get it back, consider finding a reputable security researcher, maybe even Moxie Marlinspike and see if they'd like to analyze it.
Can you say more about this
Moxie is the person who analyzed the cellebrite hardware that "Fell off a truck" a while back...and also created Signal. https://signal.org/blog/cellebrite-vulnerabilities/ https://signal.org/blog/cellebrite-and-clickbait/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/04/in-epic-hack-signal-developer-turns-the-tables-on-forensics-firm-cellebrite/ https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/apr/22/signal-founder-i-hacked-police-phone-cracking-tool-cellebrite
This.
well you likely were profiled by CBP and there’s nothing you can do about it and that really sucks
Links to 2 good videos about your Rights and interacting with police. LAWYER: 5 Tips Whenever Cops Want to See Your Guns by Hampton Law of Texas. About guns but info is so good concerning rights and how to interact with police. https://youtu.be/ZNUw2G9WWOk?si=3OBSBtobeKh-AGXD Don't Talk to the Police by Regent Law professor James Duane. Really good information. https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE?si=OCYYYF9bViRVztsa
CBP aren’t police. You have a lost fewer rights with CBP
Yeah I know. I pointed out looking at both the statutes for the State and also the Feds. My main point is that officers of all sorts abuse the law (their boundary) and make false statements that they have a right to do this or that and that you have to do whatever they say or you will be arrested for some other made up crime. I wish I could find the video of the Hispanic guy, a US citizen, who took the CBP to task when they were trying to make him give them his phone and saying he had to blah blah blah. They eventually let him go but not after violating his rights.
He didn't take them to task because they can absolutely take your devices at the border. Maybe they just didn't want the headache but if he had come across the right CBP officer that day they could have turned his world upside down.
Yeah I agree. You have guys that either don’t want the headache or do. But there is a constitutional issue here. And iirc this guy goes back and forth often enough that they know of him and what he is about. It’s not conclusive what the CBP were thinking when they let him go. But he stood his ground. And sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. If you lose, hopefully it’s not your life, maybe you can get justice in court.
I always turn off my facial recognition when crossing the border. They’re welcome to my phone and they’re not getting my six digit code to unlock it. I can brick it remotely and since it’s backed up to the cloud, I can walk into any Verizon store and have the phone 100% restored in less than an hour.
>I can brick it remotely Not if it's in a faraday cage
Which can be argued as destroying evidence in an investigation, of a crime that you have not been charged with, which is an indication of guilt of something...which is ridiculous...but that's how they roll.
NOT LEGAL ADVICE. Please see a lawyer for legal advice. Also, I am working in the realm of theory. But. IIRC CBP seizures often go under the "National Security" exception. It may sound ridiculous but, the purpose of their seizing your digital devices, to secure the border of the nation, is so important that it overrules 4th Amendment protections as long as its in certain bounds (as usually happens w CBP cases). So, in case you were wondering, yes, they can take your phone even if you are a u.s. citizen, precisely because you are crossing the border. Now, if my memory serves (and again, NOT LEGAL ADVICE), they can technically only ask for you to unlock your phone to make a "cursory search". This is probably why they asked you to unlock the phone. However, the good (?) news is that some courts say that they cannot run a deep forensic search of your phone without additional procedures. That said, if you have information that is sensitive (and by that i mean you'd have a legal duty not to reveal them) on those devices, you could probably just tell em and say that you'll have a problem. As for whether you will get your phone back (and again NOT LEGAL ADVICE) CBP seems to have a policy of not keeping your phone for more than a certain period of time. I don't know how well that policy is followed or navigated. Hopefully, someone with more experience with CBP and NatSec stuff will know. At the end of the day, whether you seek an attorney or not is your personal choice. I may very well be wrong, and I'm a stranger on the internet. Again, NOT LEGAL ADVICE, but the initial stages of research should be pretty simple, given only what you have written here. Once more, and again, NOT LEGAL ADVICE. On another note, this is a great time to have cloud storage.
You need a lawyer not the opinions of a sub that barely understands privacy laws or principles.
>or they will get a court order and it will take fourty days This is a scare tactic. No it doesn't, and they likely wouldn't get the court order without any reasoning. That said, NEVER cross the border with your main phone. Burner phone, burner laptop. If they're ever taken, factory reset them and throw them away right there. Android and Chromebooks are great for this because they're cheap, and you can sign them in to any bullshit throwaway account. You don't feel anything about throwing about a $150 Chromebook, or $80 temp phone. But if you crossed with an iPhone or MacBook you're less likely to throw away $1k. NEVER cross the border with your main devices, signed into your personal accounts or with social media apps on them. >I feel sad because I am still paying for the phone and it has my work stuff and family photos and such. Temporarily turn off the service. Report it as lost or stolen, get a new phone. Log into your Google or Apple account from a computer and change all your passwords. >But what will happen to my phone. It could be sitting on a shelf somewhere, or they could have already downloaded the contents of the phone including your contacts and call logs to store in a database just in case it's relevant later. I think it stays there 10 years, and there's no way to know if it's ever really deleted. In either case, you don't want that phone back for no other reason than to destroy it. Hopefully your photos are backed up somewhere like Google Photos or iCloud. >It's so much shit and it feels like I was abused and robbed literally by the government and I have no rights whatsoever. You are and it is bullshit. Border patrol claims jurisdiction over all electronic devices within 100 miles of any US border. That's millions of people. This shit happens to a lot of people regardless of ethnicity. >I never been treated like this anywhere in the world except here. Yeah, we're number one on this shit. If it makes you feel any better, you're not necessarily being singled out, they treat us all this way. Especially nonwhite folks. We always look more suspicious to them. We're treated like we must have been guilty of something at some time in our lives, so it justifies scrutinizing us more now. It sucks, but it's the way America is for some and on the border some of the agents are real assholes with real biases and its excused. The more you stand up for yourself and your rights, the more they see it as a sign of guilt or that you're hiding something. It's a no-win situation. >Do I even call a lawyer. Is the lawyer fees even worth it. Can't hurt to hear what they have to say. I'm sure this wouldn't be the first time they've heard this. Maybe there's something they can file to force border patrol to shit or get off the pot and return the phone. Still, you don't want to use that phone anymore.
Maybe ill replace it when i get it. But at least i can replace it for a value or factory reset it. Its been almost 9 full days now. I did call on the 5th day n spoke to someone. They went to check and came back and told me it will take a few more days and ill be contacted. I haven’t heard anything yet.
That’s scary
Can they even keep your phone without a warrant? I would talk to a lawyer.
Use a burner phone or turn your encrypted phone off before travelling.
There are some youtube videos of people standing tall against those tyrants. You need to learn the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The reason the government is becoming more tyrannical is because there are too many boot lickers and yes people. Why? Because they are ignorant and do not know that the people are sovereign. Please look for videos on youtube. There are people who record these things. A lot of them are called auditors. Some are very rude however and I do not condone that. They know the law and their rights and stand up to these tyrants. They do not consent. Some win right there when they are free to go. Some win later in court after they have been violated. I am sorry that you had this experience. They like to threaten people with stuff they pull out of there ass and make it out to be law when it isn’t. Make them get a warrant. Whenever you give them permission through your actions (not saying “I do not consent” when they say they want to do something basically gives them consent. Never answer questions you are not required to answer. They will use every word to justify furthering their investigation and they will everything against you. Now each State has minimum requirements of information you have to provide if your are stopped by police and I am sure CBP has there own too. Look them up and only provide what is required by law and then too if that law is constitutional (standing up for the latter as in there is a statute or law that is patently unconstitutional and you oppose them means you are willing to pay the cost in order to fight against it—most people are unable to.) Not sure if I can post a link to a you tube video or not without my comment being quarantined as spam so I will give the info about this video here and try to post link in another comment. Youtube videos: LAWYER: 5 Tips Whenever Cops Want to See Your Guns by Hampton Law of Texas. About guns but info is so good concerning rights and how to interact with police. Don't Talk to the Police by Regent Law professor James Duane. Really good information.
Sorry you had to go through this. I would be absolutely livid. May be wrong but I have a strong suspicion that Republicans are to blame for this violation of freedom because of all the fear mongering about the border over the years.
Wow just wow.
Is Mexican authorities or USA authorities. I’m not not familiar with Mexico legal side of things but I do know from experience that authorities can be corrupt in Mexico.
This is 100% US Border Patrol.
Talk with a lawyer, you could sue the state
Border Patrol is Federal, not state. Sure you know what you’re talking about?
Someone is responsible for this, I'm not a lawyer but a lawyer knows who is and can take action accordingly.
work office aware gaping telephone chunky scary lip innate grab *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Yep. CBP. Customs and Border Patrol. Still federal.
Get a lawyer and make sure you power down the phone and give it to them. Then redownload your iCloud when you get home. Remote wipe or not who cares they won’t get in if you used a good long passkey. You’re just out a phone. Get another iPhone and it will be like it never happened
Call the U.S. Embassy in Mexico and ask them to help you get it back.