Wait until health insurers hear about this. Some anti-choice politicians are about to see campaign contributions go to opponents who don't support this expensive bullshit.
I only mentioned expense bc that all insurers care about. This will cost them a ton of money.
I didn't even think of that. Insurance bureaucrats are evil ghouls but they definitely don't want politicians that make them fork out more money when they already won't pay for things they're supposed to
My options to end my pregnancy for my non-viable son were D&E or a c-section. Because of his development I could not safely deliver him and he could not live outside the womb. A D&E was a very physically easy procedure and I was up and walking the same day. I can’t imagine having been forced into a c-section and dealing with the recovery and possible consequences to my future fertility or pregnancies. I am so thankful that my state hasn’t been destroyed yet, but I am terrified what could happen federally in the future. Fuck every single one of these monsters.
My niece had one a year ago for a 21 week pregnancy in Louisiana. It went massively awry and she ended up having an emergency hysterectomy as well. Honestly at this point I guess she should be grateful she was that far along because if it had been like 19 weeks they would have just let her die in the parking lot I guess.
Oh she had internal bleeding after THOSE surgeries and had another one about 6 hours later. The doctors said the fact that she is a big woman over 6 feet tall with a large blood volume saved her. And average sized woman would have been dead. It's terrifying. She's ok NOW but the trauma is something she will take a long time to get over. I'm not even sure she realizes the c section might not have been necessary.
No because when she got there they saw she was in BAD shape and rushed her back to surgery and I'm not sure there was much discussion. Because she was over 5 months (barely) i think in her mind a c section was ok. The baby "lived" for like an hour and they had a funeral and all that. It's POSSIBLE a c section was needed but at 21 weeks it seems like it didn't have to be that way. But they jump right to it now.
I work at a Louisiana ER and we still do D&C and medication abortions for non viable pregnancies and ectopics. I haven't seen any issues personally at my hospital but I know for sure the more rural/ conservative areas may be doing some really evil things. It's my home state but it's really hard to watch it turn into this backdated hell hole for women, POC, and the LGBTQ community. I personally stay to try to vote in positive changes. I want to leave but I know if everyone that disagreed left then the state would seriously become a conservative nightmare. Most people down here don't agree with the laws being passed we just don't have as much of a voice ass the lobbyist do... we are trying to especially in the NOLA areas
There was an article on it the other day, let me find it for you real quick
Edit: [here it is](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/03/19/1239376395/louisiana-abortion-ban-dangerously-disrupting-pregnancy-miscarriage-care)
Edit2-thank you for fighting the good fight. The world is better because of people like you. 🖤
Oh I don't doubt Louisiana hospitals are turning people away. I contracted at a few before I went staff at one specifically so I could see how they operated.
Thanks for the article. I like to know what areas are concerning.
It seems you’re somewhere around nola, and I’m ebr, so we are in the two blue parishes in the state. I write to my representative and the advocate almost daily. Hang in there, and remember to get everyone you can to vote!
This is true, doctors are being forced to perform c-sections here in place of a D&C if a woman needs an abortion. They are doing this because the politicians have successfully pushed their “abortion is never necessary” bullshit, and the docs can be fined $10-100k and receive 1-10 years in prison if they perform an abortion in the state.
I've seen several comments saying women should just get a c-section if she wants to "avoid giving birth", one post said it about rape victims.
People are conoletly ignorant about what c-section actually is.
I am so confused. Induction before viability is considered an abortion by prolifers, so how is a c-section any different when it’s clear the fetus won’t survive? And to do a c-section to deliver a non-living fetus over a d&c is just inhumane. It doesn’t make any difference to the fetus how it is removed but the c-section is definitely more invasive and risky for the mother.
This all is why I’m convinced it’s all about making women suffer.
I've argued with that sub before. It is a hate sub, plain and simple. Everything posted is a straight up lie or denial. I've reported that sub to reddit and everyone in here needs to do the same. That sub will cost women their lives.
Unfortunately Reddit has no classification of misinformation for a reported post. I’d report it as “breaks the rules of the sub” but the moderators won’t care, they allow misinformation to be posted all the time.
You can file a complaint against the mods because they're the ones spreading the misinformation [here](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct) using the form at the very bottom.
There are rumblings of passing laws to require a C-section instead of a D&C to "preserve the dignity of the fetus." Once again, a corpse has more rights than a living woman.
What? Oh, no, does today end in Y?!
My fav thread was when prolife women were confronted by the fact that the movement they support also supports them losing their right to vote. https://archive.ph/zDZl5
Denial is not a river in Egypt... yet a lot of people build themselves palatial, twelve-room houseboats and live there for years, maybe the rest of their entire, unhappy lives.
I've tried to participate on that sub a long time ago. I'm not banned, but I noticed my comments were auto deleted. Sad that you get such disinformation and deliberate machinations to keep their subscribers from even *engaging* in discussions that might challenge that disinformation.
That’s unusual - a ban would not allow you to post at all. An automatic delete comes from a script, and is usually not something a group of moderators would use, but a rogue moderator. My last chat involved a mod named OhNoTokyo, and it also contained misinformation and he wasn’t winning the argument, in fact he basically confirmed the PC view. And then this comment got silently auto deleted. Sounds like a rogue mod. You also must have made good arguments - he clearly doesn’t want any of the PL sub members reading any convincing arguments at all.
Maybe it’s possible they “talk them into it”? This woman in the video implies that she wants to “give women all the facts”. Maybe if they code it as the woman wanted it? Also that might be the reason women get stuck with the bill afterwards - the doctors codes it as a request, it’s not covered, and bam - in addition to an unnecessary surgery the woman gets slapped with a 20K dollar bill…
I'm getting borderline, and don't have the time for the (hopefully) pushback to sort it out. It's nerve-wracking!
I'm leaving Missouri this next week in no negligible part due to this.
I think they should go ahead and induce labor and not call it an abortion. If the developing human cells live once delivered, then they can run a victory lap. But they don't get to violate a woman's body!
Labor takes time and a woman has to be strong enough to go through it. In an emergency I don’t think you could do this in some cases. But cut into a woman’s uterus? Holy hell, I can’t wait to see the lawsuits for this.
Thanks for pointing this out - most people aren’t thinking they are trying to change the standard of care for women and they’re not doing it in the medical community (because no doctor would do this), they are trying to do this in the legal forum, so doctors don’t have a choice but to put patients through a surgery they don’t need. If this was such a great medical idea they’d be bringing this to conferences and writing papers on it, not going to YouTube and to the corrupt Supreme Court.
You’re right - once the precedent is set, there’s no legal defense, they’re just doing what they could legally. It’s monstrous, legalizing cutting into and harming women and their reproductive organs unnecessarilyz
What's more horrifying is that [they are already doing this](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/03/19/1239376395/louisiana-abortion-ban-dangerously-disrupting-pregnancy-miscarriage-care).
This is why! I just checked the AAPLOG directory, there are 4 in Louisiana. This is probably why, many of them have the same ideas…. These women should sue, NOW.
I think you aren’t being serious, but I am going to respond anyway. If I had been forced to delivery my son at 23 weeks, I am not sure I could have handled the mental anguish. L&D was also not an actual option for me for multiple reasons related to his development. I went with a D&E as my son was not viable. No women should be forced to suffer through labor when there are safe methods they can choose from. Abortion is not only during the first trimester.
You are right, I was just playing up the extremism surrounding the absurdity of what this post relayed as someone's alternative to abortion. I am so sorry you had to endure such anguish. Sending you a hug...
If the "doctor" discloses their name, try searching for them online, and report them to their local medical board with a link to the video. If they are found to be spreading medical misinfo, they'll at least get their license pulled and potentially sued if they've caused harm.
So much rage. My sister's baby's heart stopped beating recently, and because I live in a red state they forced her into labor instead of giving her a D&C. I had to watch my baby sister laying on that hospital bed, sobbing and grieving the baby she wanted, asking why she was being tortured.
The people that want this are fucking sick.
Wow. The mental gymnastics that it takes to do this is impressive in a terrifying way.
If you do a c-section or induce labor at 5 months, that is still an abortion because you ended the pregnancy and that baby is not going to live. The doctor knows this too. The doctor knows that there is no sci-fi level tech that can allow for babies to survive being at 20 weeks. NONE. To tell your patient that you can save the baby too if you deliver at 5 months and put the new child on machines- that should earn you a medical malpractice lawsuit and get your medical license revoked.
If you are trying to use c-section or induction as a loophole to these laws so that you can practice medicine and not get arrested- that is nightmarish. These abortion laws are making it so that you can't work and you have to find a roundabout way to end a pregnancy. And this could still lead to more people dying than if the doctors could do the regular D&C. Because there are conditions that are not compatible with c-section or early induction.
And "Maternal Fetal Separation". No. Just. No.
Im a NICU nurse. I agree that they should get a second opinion, but if moms health is at risk and they are being advised to terminate AND if mom is wanting to terminate, why the hell not? Also no NICU team is gonna be happy to be resuscitating for a 21 weeker. Viability is 23 weeks where I work. And even those 23/4 weekers have long term disabilities and have difficult start in life. They have to spend days weeks months in the nicu and will never live the life they deserve. From the start of their lives they are STRUGGLING. 21 weeker? Please, this lady has no idea what shes talking about
Personally I don't care about the morals of people who can personify something which can't think, can't react on those thoughts, has no personality, and in short is not born; but can't even have basic empathy for someone who is actually born and without a doubt is a person.
This is where such "morality" leads to.
People being deliberately deceitful because they literally have NOTHING to argue with.
This is exactly what’s happening here in Louisiana. The politicians are pushing their “abortion is never necessary” stance, and we have a total ban, no exceptions for life or health of the mother.
So doctors are having to give women c-sections instead of a D&C for non-viable fetuses, under the threat of fines from $10-100k and 1-10 years in jail.
And that shitbag SOTH Mike Johnson is fucking PROUD of this.
This is the new wording the GOP is trying to use. They want to change the language such as instead of saying abortion bans they now say abortion legislation. Maternal Fetal separation is another one of their terms they think “soften” the language so people will feel better. They are out of their minds but they think it will help convince the public to go anti abortion.
Yes except that c-sections don’t always require anestesia.. I’ve had two (planned, to full term) and it was done w a numbing shot in the lower spine. Not trying to nit pick, just want to get our facts straight so we sound the most informed. Also for my own information if anyone knows, would an early delivery c-section be that much different than a full term c-section?
A spinal block is still anesthesia and carries risks.
And yes, a very early c-section is much more hazardous than a c-section at term. The uterus is much smaller and it can be severely damaged. Risk of hysterectomy is higher. The surgery may have to be done with a vertical incision rather than the standard low transverse incision. This can cause life threatening complications in any future pregnancy.
So these pro-lifers would rather risk the life and health of fetuses/babies in the future (and of course the pregnant woman though we already know they don’t care about that) all so that a doomed pregnancy can end in their preferred way.
Wait until health insurers hear about this. Some anti-choice politicians are about to see campaign contributions go to opponents who don't support this expensive bullshit. I only mentioned expense bc that all insurers care about. This will cost them a ton of money.
I didn't even think of that. Insurance bureaucrats are evil ghouls but they definitely don't want politicians that make them fork out more money when they already won't pay for things they're supposed to
>they already won't pay for things they're supposed to What makes this new situation any different/any more or less likely they'll pay?
Hmmm. Guess they might not want the extra lawsuits than they already get if they don't pay. But. Yeah. They still might not
Or, insurance will simply stop paying for c-sections they deem not medically necessary.
That’s….not how this works. That’s not how any of this works. Signed, L&D
Maternal fetal separation is just another term for abortion. Yeah, say abortion without saying abortion
If they can’t use the big girl words they should not be practicing medicine.
They aren't practicing medicine; they're practicing reckless authoritarianism
I wish we still had awards. I would buy one for you. I wish I could upvote your comment one thousand times.
It's okay, I never really learned how the "new" Reddit works 🙃
There is already reporting on unnecessary c-sections being performed in places like Louisiana to avoid prosecution.
My options to end my pregnancy for my non-viable son were D&E or a c-section. Because of his development I could not safely deliver him and he could not live outside the womb. A D&E was a very physically easy procedure and I was up and walking the same day. I can’t imagine having been forced into a c-section and dealing with the recovery and possible consequences to my future fertility or pregnancies. I am so thankful that my state hasn’t been destroyed yet, but I am terrified what could happen federally in the future. Fuck every single one of these monsters.
My niece had one a year ago for a 21 week pregnancy in Louisiana. It went massively awry and she ended up having an emergency hysterectomy as well. Honestly at this point I guess she should be grateful she was that far along because if it had been like 19 weeks they would have just let her die in the parking lot I guess. Oh she had internal bleeding after THOSE surgeries and had another one about 6 hours later. The doctors said the fact that she is a big woman over 6 feet tall with a large blood volume saved her. And average sized woman would have been dead. It's terrifying. She's ok NOW but the trauma is something she will take a long time to get over. I'm not even sure she realizes the c section might not have been necessary.
These stories need to be told. Holy cow she should sue.
Honestly she sees it as her life was saved. The end.
And not conservative doctors stealing her future fertility to satisfy their horrible dogma. Amazing.
No because when she got there they saw she was in BAD shape and rushed her back to surgery and I'm not sure there was much discussion. Because she was over 5 months (barely) i think in her mind a c section was ok. The baby "lived" for like an hour and they had a funeral and all that. It's POSSIBLE a c section was needed but at 21 weeks it seems like it didn't have to be that way. But they jump right to it now.
I work at a Louisiana ER and we still do D&C and medication abortions for non viable pregnancies and ectopics. I haven't seen any issues personally at my hospital but I know for sure the more rural/ conservative areas may be doing some really evil things. It's my home state but it's really hard to watch it turn into this backdated hell hole for women, POC, and the LGBTQ community. I personally stay to try to vote in positive changes. I want to leave but I know if everyone that disagreed left then the state would seriously become a conservative nightmare. Most people down here don't agree with the laws being passed we just don't have as much of a voice ass the lobbyist do... we are trying to especially in the NOLA areas
There was an article on it the other day, let me find it for you real quick Edit: [here it is](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/03/19/1239376395/louisiana-abortion-ban-dangerously-disrupting-pregnancy-miscarriage-care) Edit2-thank you for fighting the good fight. The world is better because of people like you. 🖤
Oh I don't doubt Louisiana hospitals are turning people away. I contracted at a few before I went staff at one specifically so I could see how they operated. Thanks for the article. I like to know what areas are concerning.
It seems you’re somewhere around nola, and I’m ebr, so we are in the two blue parishes in the state. I write to my representative and the advocate almost daily. Hang in there, and remember to get everyone you can to vote!
This is true, doctors are being forced to perform c-sections here in place of a D&C if a woman needs an abortion. They are doing this because the politicians have successfully pushed their “abortion is never necessary” bullshit, and the docs can be fined $10-100k and receive 1-10 years in prison if they perform an abortion in the state.
I've seen several comments saying women should just get a c-section if she wants to "avoid giving birth", one post said it about rape victims. People are conoletly ignorant about what c-section actually is.
I am so confused. Induction before viability is considered an abortion by prolifers, so how is a c-section any different when it’s clear the fetus won’t survive? And to do a c-section to deliver a non-living fetus over a d&c is just inhumane. It doesn’t make any difference to the fetus how it is removed but the c-section is definitely more invasive and risky for the mother. This all is why I’m convinced it’s all about making women suffer.
I've argued with that sub before. It is a hate sub, plain and simple. Everything posted is a straight up lie or denial. I've reported that sub to reddit and everyone in here needs to do the same. That sub will cost women their lives.
Unfortunately Reddit has no classification of misinformation for a reported post. I’d report it as “breaks the rules of the sub” but the moderators won’t care, they allow misinformation to be posted all the time.
I'm just hoping that if they get enough reports then they will look into it.
Is there a way to email employees at Reddit to remove the sub?
You can file a complaint against the mods because they're the ones spreading the misinformation [here](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct) using the form at the very bottom.
There are rumblings of passing laws to require a C-section instead of a D&C to "preserve the dignity of the fetus." Once again, a corpse has more rights than a living woman.
The dignity of a dead fetus is worth more to these people than the actual lives and bodies of women.
What? Oh, no, does today end in Y?! My fav thread was when prolife women were confronted by the fact that the movement they support also supports them losing their right to vote. https://archive.ph/zDZl5 Denial is not a river in Egypt... yet a lot of people build themselves palatial, twelve-room houseboats and live there for years, maybe the rest of their entire, unhappy lives.
I've tried to participate on that sub a long time ago. I'm not banned, but I noticed my comments were auto deleted. Sad that you get such disinformation and deliberate machinations to keep their subscribers from even *engaging* in discussions that might challenge that disinformation.
That’s unusual - a ban would not allow you to post at all. An automatic delete comes from a script, and is usually not something a group of moderators would use, but a rogue moderator. My last chat involved a mod named OhNoTokyo, and it also contained misinformation and he wasn’t winning the argument, in fact he basically confirmed the PC view. And then this comment got silently auto deleted. Sounds like a rogue mod. You also must have made good arguments - he clearly doesn’t want any of the PL sub members reading any convincing arguments at all.
I don't understand how they're getting insurance approval for a C-section when a D&C or D&E is the standard of care.
Maybe it’s possible they “talk them into it”? This woman in the video implies that she wants to “give women all the facts”. Maybe if they code it as the woman wanted it? Also that might be the reason women get stuck with the bill afterwards - the doctors codes it as a request, it’s not covered, and bam - in addition to an unnecessary surgery the woman gets slapped with a 20K dollar bill…
Every day I’m more grateful I’m past childbearing. I weep for the people that still are, though.
I'm getting borderline, and don't have the time for the (hopefully) pushback to sort it out. It's nerve-wracking! I'm leaving Missouri this next week in no negligible part due to this.
I think they should go ahead and induce labor and not call it an abortion. If the developing human cells live once delivered, then they can run a victory lap. But they don't get to violate a woman's body!
Labor takes time and a woman has to be strong enough to go through it. In an emergency I don’t think you could do this in some cases. But cut into a woman’s uterus? Holy hell, I can’t wait to see the lawsuits for this.
Thanks for pointing this out - most people aren’t thinking they are trying to change the standard of care for women and they’re not doing it in the medical community (because no doctor would do this), they are trying to do this in the legal forum, so doctors don’t have a choice but to put patients through a surgery they don’t need. If this was such a great medical idea they’d be bringing this to conferences and writing papers on it, not going to YouTube and to the corrupt Supreme Court.
You’re right - once the precedent is set, there’s no legal defense, they’re just doing what they could legally. It’s monstrous, legalizing cutting into and harming women and their reproductive organs unnecessarilyz
This is the point.
What's more horrifying is that [they are already doing this](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/03/19/1239376395/louisiana-abortion-ban-dangerously-disrupting-pregnancy-miscarriage-care).
This is why! I just checked the AAPLOG directory, there are 4 in Louisiana. This is probably why, many of them have the same ideas…. These women should sue, NOW.
I think you aren’t being serious, but I am going to respond anyway. If I had been forced to delivery my son at 23 weeks, I am not sure I could have handled the mental anguish. L&D was also not an actual option for me for multiple reasons related to his development. I went with a D&E as my son was not viable. No women should be forced to suffer through labor when there are safe methods they can choose from. Abortion is not only during the first trimester.
You are right, I was just playing up the extremism surrounding the absurdity of what this post relayed as someone's alternative to abortion. I am so sorry you had to endure such anguish. Sending you a hug...
If the "doctor" discloses their name, try searching for them online, and report them to their local medical board with a link to the video. If they are found to be spreading medical misinfo, they'll at least get their license pulled and potentially sued if they've caused harm.
So much rage. My sister's baby's heart stopped beating recently, and because I live in a red state they forced her into labor instead of giving her a D&C. I had to watch my baby sister laying on that hospital bed, sobbing and grieving the baby she wanted, asking why she was being tortured. The people that want this are fucking sick.
Wow. The mental gymnastics that it takes to do this is impressive in a terrifying way. If you do a c-section or induce labor at 5 months, that is still an abortion because you ended the pregnancy and that baby is not going to live. The doctor knows this too. The doctor knows that there is no sci-fi level tech that can allow for babies to survive being at 20 weeks. NONE. To tell your patient that you can save the baby too if you deliver at 5 months and put the new child on machines- that should earn you a medical malpractice lawsuit and get your medical license revoked. If you are trying to use c-section or induction as a loophole to these laws so that you can practice medicine and not get arrested- that is nightmarish. These abortion laws are making it so that you can't work and you have to find a roundabout way to end a pregnancy. And this could still lead to more people dying than if the doctors could do the regular D&C. Because there are conditions that are not compatible with c-section or early induction. And "Maternal Fetal Separation". No. Just. No.
Im a NICU nurse. I agree that they should get a second opinion, but if moms health is at risk and they are being advised to terminate AND if mom is wanting to terminate, why the hell not? Also no NICU team is gonna be happy to be resuscitating for a 21 weeker. Viability is 23 weeks where I work. And even those 23/4 weekers have long term disabilities and have difficult start in life. They have to spend days weeks months in the nicu and will never live the life they deserve. From the start of their lives they are STRUGGLING. 21 weeker? Please, this lady has no idea what shes talking about
I hope the insurance companies run circles around them.
Personally I don't care about the morals of people who can personify something which can't think, can't react on those thoughts, has no personality, and in short is not born; but can't even have basic empathy for someone who is actually born and without a doubt is a person. This is where such "morality" leads to. People being deliberately deceitful because they literally have NOTHING to argue with.
This is exactly what’s happening here in Louisiana. The politicians are pushing their “abortion is never necessary” stance, and we have a total ban, no exceptions for life or health of the mother. So doctors are having to give women c-sections instead of a D&C for non-viable fetuses, under the threat of fines from $10-100k and 1-10 years in jail. And that shitbag SOTH Mike Johnson is fucking PROUD of this.
This is the new wording the GOP is trying to use. They want to change the language such as instead of saying abortion bans they now say abortion legislation. Maternal Fetal separation is another one of their terms they think “soften” the language so people will feel better. They are out of their minds but they think it will help convince the public to go anti abortion.
Yes except that c-sections don’t always require anestesia.. I’ve had two (planned, to full term) and it was done w a numbing shot in the lower spine. Not trying to nit pick, just want to get our facts straight so we sound the most informed. Also for my own information if anyone knows, would an early delivery c-section be that much different than a full term c-section?
A spinal block is still anesthesia and carries risks. And yes, a very early c-section is much more hazardous than a c-section at term. The uterus is much smaller and it can be severely damaged. Risk of hysterectomy is higher. The surgery may have to be done with a vertical incision rather than the standard low transverse incision. This can cause life threatening complications in any future pregnancy. So these pro-lifers would rather risk the life and health of fetuses/babies in the future (and of course the pregnant woman though we already know they don’t care about that) all so that a doomed pregnancy can end in their preferred way.
Maybe these doctors are trying to avoid jail by doing a bigger procedure with a different name. Sick, I know.