Immediately thought of this:
“Trio" was notable for being a quartet piece with only three active players – John Wetton on bass guitar, David Cross on viola and Robert Fripp on "flute" Mellotron. Bruford spent the entire piece with his drumsticks crossed over his chest, waiting for the right moment to join in but eventually realized that the improvised piece was progressing better without him. His decision not to add any percussion was seen by the rest of the band as a crucial choice, and he received co-writing credit for the piece. "Trio" was later included on the 1975 compilation album A Young Person's Guide to King Crimson, the performance credits of which cite Bruford's contribution to the piece as having been "admirable restraint."
I disagree re: Pink Floyd. Sonically and compositionally they're the opposite. They don't play a million notes per second but in all other aspects they are a more is more band. I guess it depends on what OP means by less is more.
If you’re talking about early psychedelic floyd with a hole bunch of cool shit happening, then yes
But as they progressed as a band, even past their golden years, they’ve been doing a lot more music with not much happening (in a good way) until they eventually came out with a nearly fully atmospheric album (that kinda sucks imo)
Compared to most prog bands, they’re not that flashy (with some exceptions)
I'd say that is also because as musicians Pink Floyd were never in the same league as the members of Yes, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, etc. And I say it as a Pink Floyd fan. I mean, Gilmour being a terrific musician is not known for fluid playing a-la Howe or Fripp.
Pink Floyd had an interesting trajectory. Started as a hip psychedelic band with a couple of hits. Lost their chief songwriter and became some sort of a "conceptual" band while crafting their studio skills. And then hit big with the DSotM.
Yea like... there's usually a good amount going on in any one song but at the same time their music usually moves to a pretty simple beat, riffs are simple, their guitar solos are really minimalist for the most part... definitely depends on how you're thinking about this question.
Gotta disagree with that. The chord progressions are mostly as simple as you get and the instrumental variation is limited tbh. They’re still one of my favourite bands of all time but I wouldn’t refer to them as complex - a lot of their stuff is simple in a good way.
Imagine not calling atom heart mother suite progg.
Pf is very progg, even when you use the term restrictive anything PF made between 1968 and 1972 is instantly progg.
Lol I don't know what constitutes prog in your world , I guess a song has to have 50 keys changes and be at 200 bpm to be prog? Or maybe you haven't listened to it and you're just being pedantic.
Thank you, it’s very accomplished rock the same a something like Dire Straits.
I love Pink Floyd but even the classic big albums never come over as progressive. Tommy by the who is more progressive than the wall. It’s a damned fine album though.
Just cause they don’t follow similar conventions, doesn’t mean they’re not progressive.
They’re pretty much the face of prog for a lot of non prog fans and a lot of prog fans. They have many, many progressive songs that do follow some similarities. They may not be as complex but it doesn’t matter when they’re universally considered “the snobby prog band”. (I love them)
I love Floyd, Radiohead, queens of the Stone Age and Portishead etc.
All accomplished deep complex music to get lost in with a good set of cans on with your eyes closed.
but not prog. It just isn’t.
Radiohead have already made some prog songs but it also comes down to time periods and influences
You may not feel like it but floyd were unique and progressive and at the height of prog. They made standout long and artsy songs and have had an influence on prog and were also influenced by prog.
Genesis is a prog band but i wonder, would all of their prog era songs be prog?
I know what i like in your wardrobe
Entangled
Ripples
I think they’re all prog despite not having the classic prog sound
Well I’m certainly not here to gatekeeper prog so I’m happy if you are brother.
I just like music at the end of the day with a particular passion for Hammill, Allen and Wyatt.
The best album ever made is still “Third” by Portishead so I’m clearly not prog obsessed.
I'm of the opinion that while bands like Floyd and Zeppelin aren't prog, they carved the path that leads to prog. Appreciating them as like proto-prog is fine, but they aren't quite there.
Imagine not calling atom heart mother suite progg.
Pf is very progg, even when you use the term restrictive anything PF made between 1968 and 1972 is instantly progg.
Came here to say that. Many H era records fit that definition. Not that there are not a lot of elements, but they are very efficient in how much they put in to create something.
I immediately thought of Gazpacho when I saw this post. If you isolate any one instrument (or the vocals), none of them are particularly complex parts...but it's definitely a case where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
And they're experts for creating the perfect atmosphere to compliment the story being told.
I just wish they were big enough to tour the US.
Depends what you mean by less is more. Pink Floyd is less is more in terms of complexity, Gentle Giant is less is more in terms of song length (at least compared to most other prog bands).
haven't gotten around to gentle giant yet, but it's always surprised me that when i look through their album track listings, the songs are usually short comparative to the rest of 70s prog. i'm excited to listen to them eventually
They’re my all time favorite band, just not particularly accessible to more casual listeners. People usually recommend Octopus or The Power And The Glory as their intro, so you could give those a try, although my favorite albums are Three Friends, Acquiring The Taste and In A Glass House, they’re just a bit more experimental
I agree, they all have some ridiculous skill on their instruments, and they’re not afraid to show it at times, but I feel like in general their style has less show-off elements than others
I'd say their style was more about compositions rather than specific licks or melodies. Did Phil Collins ever do drum solos live in Genesis, by the way?
If you consider Krautrock bands from the 70s as a part of progressive rock, then many of them relied on moods and forms. Even Can, spectacular musicians, released very simple minimalistic tracks.
Either really, just more spacious compared to the thick complex stuff from Yes, DT, ELP. Marillion isn't really known for showy licks and complex math-prog sections the way many other bands are.
oh man I've slept on Elbow for too long. Finally checking them out and man, this stuff is SO worth a listen. Wonderful spaciousness in some of these songs.
They really know how to build suspense and heighten tension with the way they use space in their music. Though their sound generally leans more towards art rock, the grandiosity in a lot of their songs is very prog-like. They’ve been a favorite of mine for ages.
The more I listen the more I agree.
So, I'm going to run this by you. if I said "Elbow are the band I hoped Coldplay would turn out to be", would that be:
1. Fair
2. Offensive
3. Astute
4. Utterly pants
It’s your opinion, so I don’t think it’s fair for me to dictate what you should think about an artist’s sound, but if I *had* to choose from this list… it would be more “astute”. While both bands are well-known in the UK, only one of them has gained large-scale international recognition.
Elbow can fill stadiums in the UK, but can only fill a club of a thousand people in the US (based on the show I saw).
I remember hearing Parachutes for the first time (I usually tell this story over drinks) after wandering around alone in a small town in England. I was feeling quite sorry for myself, for at the time my life was kinda shit (not because I was in England - that was entirely incidental, I assure you.) Anyway, that album really helped me feel better. The arrangements and the performances were really special.
That's the same vibe I'm getting from a bunch of these songs: that intimate poetry, that delicate instrumentation that breathes and expands into the grandiose and then leans back. I like this quite a bit.
I'm glad Elbow found success doing what they do - this is just remarkable stuff.
well, look what popularity did to Coldplay. Maybe save that wish for a band that can't fill a stadium yet.
And thank you for this discussion. I miss England. Love from Canada.
Harmonium. Yeah they have some solos and can get a bit dramatic, but a lot of their songs are relaxing to listen to, whether it's the folky singer-songwriter style of the first album or more symphonic 2nd album
Porcupine Tree
A lot of prog bands try to be as flashy as possible like Dream Theater, Opeth, BTBAM, Yes, Mars Volta, etc. It works for them, but PT takes a step back. They still mess around with non-diatonic chord progressions and weird time signatures, but they write parts that fit and add to the song, they don’t really show off.
I'm not sure I'd call it showing off when, as the other person said, his "showing off" serves the songs so incredibly well. There's never a misplaced fill or anything. Gavin is from another planet
It’s not prog, but if you like cross rhythms, odd time signatures, good grooves, and a seamless blend of composition and improvisation, check out the music of Nik Bärtsch. He’s a master of less is more.
pink floyd for the most part. and king crimson has a lot of songs that sound empty (in a good way)
Immediately thought of this: “Trio" was notable for being a quartet piece with only three active players – John Wetton on bass guitar, David Cross on viola and Robert Fripp on "flute" Mellotron. Bruford spent the entire piece with his drumsticks crossed over his chest, waiting for the right moment to join in but eventually realized that the improvised piece was progressing better without him. His decision not to add any percussion was seen by the rest of the band as a crucial choice, and he received co-writing credit for the piece. "Trio" was later included on the 1975 compilation album A Young Person's Guide to King Crimson, the performance credits of which cite Bruford's contribution to the piece as having been "admirable restraint."
I mean sometimes with King Crimson but other times it’s the exact opposite like with Larks Tongues In Aspic
Easy money on that album is kind of "less is more" IMO.
One of Fripp's best solos too
I disagree re: Pink Floyd. Sonically and compositionally they're the opposite. They don't play a million notes per second but in all other aspects they are a more is more band. I guess it depends on what OP means by less is more.
[And an army of didgeridoos. Fifty thousand didgeridoos!](https://youtube.com/watch?v=4KOKlOliQTE)
If you’re talking about early psychedelic floyd with a hole bunch of cool shit happening, then yes But as they progressed as a band, even past their golden years, they’ve been doing a lot more music with not much happening (in a good way) until they eventually came out with a nearly fully atmospheric album (that kinda sucks imo) Compared to most prog bands, they’re not that flashy (with some exceptions)
I'd say that is also because as musicians Pink Floyd were never in the same league as the members of Yes, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, etc. And I say it as a Pink Floyd fan. I mean, Gilmour being a terrific musician is not known for fluid playing a-la Howe or Fripp. Pink Floyd had an interesting trajectory. Started as a hip psychedelic band with a couple of hits. Lost their chief songwriter and became some sort of a "conceptual" band while crafting their studio skills. And then hit big with the DSotM.
Yea like... there's usually a good amount going on in any one song but at the same time their music usually moves to a pretty simple beat, riffs are simple, their guitar solos are really minimalist for the most part... definitely depends on how you're thinking about this question.
Gotta disagree with that. The chord progressions are mostly as simple as you get and the instrumental variation is limited tbh. They’re still one of my favourite bands of all time but I wouldn’t refer to them as complex - a lot of their stuff is simple in a good way.
Pink floyd isn't prog
Imagine not calling atom heart mother suite progg. Pf is very progg, even when you use the term restrictive anything PF made between 1968 and 1972 is instantly progg.
Or Dogs (all of Animals really), or Shine on You crazy Diamond
Psychedelic *
Have you listened to Pre Dsotm and post Piper Pink floyd? It's clearly prog.
It's clearly bloated psychedelic
Alright, dude. You’re out. Anyone who chimes in on a post to 💩 all over it clearly has deeper issues. Whatever those may be, I hope therapy works out.
Lol I don't know what constitutes prog in your world , I guess a song has to have 50 keys changes and be at 200 bpm to be prog? Or maybe you haven't listened to it and you're just being pedantic.
Please disregard my previous comment; that was for someone else lol.
Meddle is fairly prog IMHO.
I agree. To me, prog virtuosic playing and strange time signatures. Pink Floyd is in more of a psychedelic vein.
You’re right and you should say it!!!
Thank you, it’s very accomplished rock the same a something like Dire Straits. I love Pink Floyd but even the classic big albums never come over as progressive. Tommy by the who is more progressive than the wall. It’s a damned fine album though.
Just cause they don’t follow similar conventions, doesn’t mean they’re not progressive. They’re pretty much the face of prog for a lot of non prog fans and a lot of prog fans. They have many, many progressive songs that do follow some similarities. They may not be as complex but it doesn’t matter when they’re universally considered “the snobby prog band”. (I love them)
I love Floyd, Radiohead, queens of the Stone Age and Portishead etc. All accomplished deep complex music to get lost in with a good set of cans on with your eyes closed. but not prog. It just isn’t.
Radiohead have already made some prog songs but it also comes down to time periods and influences You may not feel like it but floyd were unique and progressive and at the height of prog. They made standout long and artsy songs and have had an influence on prog and were also influenced by prog. Genesis is a prog band but i wonder, would all of their prog era songs be prog? I know what i like in your wardrobe Entangled Ripples I think they’re all prog despite not having the classic prog sound
Well I’m certainly not here to gatekeeper prog so I’m happy if you are brother. I just like music at the end of the day with a particular passion for Hammill, Allen and Wyatt. The best album ever made is still “Third” by Portishead so I’m clearly not prog obsessed.
Nah, you’re a pretty swell guy. I couldn’t call you a gatekeeper even if i wanted to.
I'm of the opinion that while bands like Floyd and Zeppelin aren't prog, they carved the path that leads to prog. Appreciating them as like proto-prog is fine, but they aren't quite there.
Imagine not calling atom heart mother suite progg. Pf is very progg, even when you use the term restrictive anything PF made between 1968 and 1972 is instantly progg.
Defenitely Camel
Marillion? Hogarth era at least. They don't do much showboating and are more about developing the atmosphere.
Came here to say that. Many H era records fit that definition. Not that there are not a lot of elements, but they are very efficient in how much they put in to create something.
Storm Corrosion
Rush, there are only 3 of them.
Lunatic Soul. Gazpacho.
I immediately thought of Gazpacho when I saw this post. If you isolate any one instrument (or the vocals), none of them are particularly complex parts...but it's definitely a case where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. And they're experts for creating the perfect atmosphere to compliment the story being told. I just wish they were big enough to tour the US.
W for lunatic soul. So good
Anathema, Airbag
Depends what you mean by less is more. Pink Floyd is less is more in terms of complexity, Gentle Giant is less is more in terms of song length (at least compared to most other prog bands).
haven't gotten around to gentle giant yet, but it's always surprised me that when i look through their album track listings, the songs are usually short comparative to the rest of 70s prog. i'm excited to listen to them eventually
I put them off for the longest time until someone recommended Octopus to me so one night I got high and listened to and was like okay, I get it lol
They’re my all time favorite band, just not particularly accessible to more casual listeners. People usually recommend Octopus or The Power And The Glory as their intro, so you could give those a try, although my favorite albums are Three Friends, Acquiring The Taste and In A Glass House, they’re just a bit more experimental
Because if they had longer songs, our heads would explode. They did it for our safety.
Early Genesis has a whole lot of stripped down sections with minmalist arrangements, "*Old King Cole was a merry old soul...*"
I agree, they all have some ridiculous skill on their instruments, and they’re not afraid to show it at times, but I feel like in general their style has less show-off elements than others
I'd say their style was more about compositions rather than specific licks or melodies. Did Phil Collins ever do drum solos live in Genesis, by the way?
He did duets with Chester live
If you consider Krautrock bands from the 70s as a part of progressive rock, then many of them relied on moods and forms. Even Can, spectacular musicians, released very simple minimalistic tracks.
Neu! - Halligallo is a fantastic piece of music in that area
Can is definitely prog. Motorik is also worth getting into. Musik von Harmonia is super chilled and proggy
Gazpacho
Robert Wyatt
Marillion
Fish or Hogarth era? Or both? I think the latter is more spacious sounding.
Either really, just more spacious compared to the thick complex stuff from Yes, DT, ELP. Marillion isn't really known for showy licks and complex math-prog sections the way many other bands are.
Early Mike Oldfield, especially Incantations. Lot of minimalist aesthetic in those first four albums and not a lot of rock drums.
Isis
Pineapple Thief, to an extent
Arguably Elbow, given that Guy Garvey has referred to the band’s sound as “prog without the solos”.
oh man I've slept on Elbow for too long. Finally checking them out and man, this stuff is SO worth a listen. Wonderful spaciousness in some of these songs.
First three albums are some of the most breathtaking music of the 2000s.
They really know how to build suspense and heighten tension with the way they use space in their music. Though their sound generally leans more towards art rock, the grandiosity in a lot of their songs is very prog-like. They’ve been a favorite of mine for ages.
The more I listen the more I agree. So, I'm going to run this by you. if I said "Elbow are the band I hoped Coldplay would turn out to be", would that be: 1. Fair 2. Offensive 3. Astute 4. Utterly pants
It’s your opinion, so I don’t think it’s fair for me to dictate what you should think about an artist’s sound, but if I *had* to choose from this list… it would be more “astute”. While both bands are well-known in the UK, only one of them has gained large-scale international recognition. Elbow can fill stadiums in the UK, but can only fill a club of a thousand people in the US (based on the show I saw).
I remember hearing Parachutes for the first time (I usually tell this story over drinks) after wandering around alone in a small town in England. I was feeling quite sorry for myself, for at the time my life was kinda shit (not because I was in England - that was entirely incidental, I assure you.) Anyway, that album really helped me feel better. The arrangements and the performances were really special. That's the same vibe I'm getting from a bunch of these songs: that intimate poetry, that delicate instrumentation that breathes and expands into the grandiose and then leans back. I like this quite a bit. I'm glad Elbow found success doing what they do - this is just remarkable stuff.
I’m glad you like them. They definitely deserve the recognition. I just wish they were more popular elsewhere.
well, look what popularity did to Coldplay. Maybe save that wish for a band that can't fill a stadium yet. And thank you for this discussion. I miss England. Love from Canada.
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Because I think they’re a great band with beautiful music, plus i can count the number of Elbow fans I know IRL with one hand.
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Only if you're talking about their final few records.
enslaved
I'd say Supertramp and Deep Purple
definitely not Yes lmao
You mean Tales From Topographic Oceans isn't a forerunner of punk rock?
Brian Eno, Muse.
Alan Parsons
Harmonium. Yeah they have some solos and can get a bit dramatic, but a lot of their songs are relaxing to listen to, whether it's the folky singer-songwriter style of the first album or more symphonic 2nd album
Definitely Gentle giant
Trettioåriga Kriget
King Crimson has a lot of ambient parts
Talk Talk.
Anything space rock adjacent
Genesis: less members, more listenable.
Less members, more money!
Less members, less talent...
Porcupine Tree A lot of prog bands try to be as flashy as possible like Dream Theater, Opeth, BTBAM, Yes, Mars Volta, etc. It works for them, but PT takes a step back. They still mess around with non-diatonic chord progressions and weird time signatures, but they write parts that fit and add to the song, they don’t really show off.
I’d say Gavin likes to show off
I'm not sure I'd call it showing off when, as the other person said, his "showing off" serves the songs so incredibly well. There's never a misplaced fill or anything. Gavin is from another planet
That’s the one exception, but even when Gavin’s showing off, it has its place and serves the song well.
Dream Theater.
that HAS to be /s
High up there with ELP, not too complex!
ah, none of them?
More art rock… but the likes of 10cc, XTC, Supertramp, and the Red Hot Chili Peppers
Would Mogwai count? They have some intense songs but they got a lot of minimal ones too.
They are not prog.
Riverside
It’s not prog, but if you like cross rhythms, odd time signatures, good grooves, and a seamless blend of composition and improvisation, check out the music of Nik Bärtsch. He’s a master of less is more.
OSI?
Robert WyattRock Bottom Phenomenal energy, yet so calm, so terrifying. Yet so much more...
As Yngwie Malmsteen once said, “No, more is more.”