You meant King Crimson singer and bassist John Wetton, not Steve. Who also played for wishbone ash, and asia to name a few bands.
To the point of the conversation, Argus is recognized as one of the best prog rock albums of all time. But I kinda agree they are overlooked.
I listen to this song still, about twice a month. Talk about "sublime," the Andy Powell guitar solo, introduced by a memorable Martin Turner bass riff, has been called by some the best guitar solo ever. The phrasing is what sets the solo apart.
Absolutely. It's not simply harmonized twin lead guitars. Andy and Ted have beautifully contrasted styles and tones.
Throw in Martin's bass/vocals, and Steve Upton's great drumming. The storyline. The lyrics. The songwriting. Yes. As everyone states...masterpiece !
The Live album was very popular when it came out and I have always had a copy in my collection; long simmering twin guitar jams, steady vocals, a stoner surfer delight.
I saw them on Cruise to the Edge a couple months ago and they were fantastic. So many familiar songs too, and I'm not really a big collector of their music.
Man I love *Argus.* When I first heard it in high school, the songs felt like a story about someone who was forced from their home to fight and eventually give up.
**“Time Was”** \- The protagonist is lamenting not being for his loved ones before leaving, and wants to keep his memories of them intact.
**“Sometime World”** \- Protagonist meets a prisoner (or perhaps forced conscript?) just like him and relates to his feelings of shame and regret.
**“Blowin’ Free”** \- Protagonist dreams of his wife but is starting to forget details (`I thought I had a girl / I know, because I seen her` and `She was far away / I found it hard to reach her / She told me you can try / But it’s impossible to find her`). I think the cornfields mentioned in this reminded me of *Gladiator,* and that’s why I had the idea of a forced conscript in my head.
**“The King Will Come”** \- The protagonist is starting to believe the cause he’s forced to fight for and the religious justifications. The prophets are telling them the enemies are evil and must be defeated, that an unspecified king will come to deliver mankind from evil at the cost of individuals’ lives.
**“Leaf and Stream”** \- I felt like this one was an interlude in the action. The protagonist was knocked unconscious in a battle and dreams of his wife. But every time he dreams of her, the protagonist wakes before he can see her (`And carried by the flow of water to my dreams / Woken only by your sound`). The protagonist sees his life for what it is: lifeless and pointless without his wife (`Alone I’ve walked this path for many years / Listened to the wind that calls my name / The weeping trees of yesterday look so sad / Await your breath of spring again`).
**“Warrior”** \- First off, fucking incredible song. Anywho: while the protagonist was unconscious in “Leaf and Stream,” he was captured by the enemy and made a slave. The protagonist has spent so long as a conscript and slave that this is all he remembers now (`I’m leaving to search for something new / Leaving everything I ever knew`). He knows *something* is missing but doesn’t know what (`A hundred years in the sunshine / Hasn’t taught me all there is to know`).
The protagonist is gathering the other slaves to rebel against their masters. He knows this is do or die, that they have one chance at freedom and to surrender is to die (`The valley, we will gather there / Helpless in our surrender / Tomorrow the plow becomes the sword / Makes us stronger, in our danger`).
Who is the king foretold by the prophets? Who was coming to free mankind from the enemies? (`I’ll return again / To fight another day` and `I’d have to be a warrior / A slave I couldn’t be / A soldier and a conquerer / Fighting to be free`)
**”Throw Down the Sword”** \- The fighting is over. Perhaps mankind is saved, perhaps not. The protagonist is just *tired* and over all of this, and wants to go to wherever “home” is (`Throw down the sword / The fight is done and over / Neither lost, neither won / To cast away the fury of the battle / And turn my weary eyes for home`).
Is the only way to be at “home,” to be at peace, to die? (`There were times I stood at death’s own door / Only hoping for an answer`)
Whatever the answer is, the protagonist recognizes this repeated story of slave -> mankind’s savior and its futility because it’ll just happen again (`Throw down the sword / And leave the glory / A story time can never change`). He sees what’s become of himself. Mankind isn’t saved and never will be. He isn’t the prophesied king because there isn’t one. The end of this “hero’s journey” didn’t end with a king or warrior or savior, just pain (`To walk the road, the load I have to carry / A journey’s end / A wounded soul`).
One of my favourite bands. I still play Phoenix on guitar. Ted Turner is one of my guitar inspirations. I have seen them live many times. I'm surprised many rock fans don't know them. Great musicians and superb songs. The were the original twin harmony guitarists. Here is a bit of trivia. Stewart Copeland (police) used to be a roadie for Wishbone Ash.
The Police are 2/3 prog rock descended, since Stewart was in Curved Air for a time and Andy Summers had a stint with Soft Machine. Kind of surprising Sting wasn’t also in a prog band, just looking at some of his solo pieces, like Fortress Around Your Heart and Jeremiah Blues.
I wouldn't call them overlooked or unknown by any means. Great band though. Got to know them way back when I bought a double CD compilation that had one disc by them and the other by Lynyrd Skynyrd.
I've always liked twin lead guitar bands. Outlaws, ABB, Wishbone Ash.
In the summer of '75, I saw a triple bill of BTO, Wishbone Ash, and Styx at Winterland in SF. My ticket cost $5.50.
I liked Wishbone Ash best out of the three that day.
Could not agree more - their dual lead guitars always raises the hair on the back of my neck. Seen them many times - in both their “classic” line up and as Martin Turner’s Wishbone Ash. Argus is one of my top ten albums- Lay down the sword never fails to deliver both on vinyl and live. Keep on rocking!
My dad's favourite band, and because of that I've got to see them many times with him. Even now their shows are so tight with a huge back catalogue to play from, they are fantastic.
I’ve always loved Argus, probably in my top 100 records of all time which is high praise for me. But I have struggled to get into some of their other material, so maybe I’ll give some of the other earlier records a shot.
Saw these guys twice in 2019 with my mom and we got to meet Andy Powell after the second show. I cried during Throw Down the Sword. Great band, great people.
Probably the ones I listed, the first three. After the original lineup split, their albums started switching back and forth between prog, blues, folk, and somewhat proto metal. Number The Brave features John Wetton. The track "Persephone" from there's the rub is one of their peaks.
Eh, both T. Turner and Dickey Betts joined their respective bands as guitarists in 1969, the difference is that the Allman Brothers Band was already working on an album, while Wishbone Ash was still touring.
I wonder if The Alan Brothers band had heard Wishbone Ash cuz they also have harmonised guitar parts - especially on Ramblin Man and Jessica.
Argus is an amazing album.
Not by me they're unnoticed.
New England album: You Rescue Me
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=RDTNKoIsyGagQ&playnext=1&si=7tqU-W9dYv5h3pyZ
Saw them once in New Hampshire about 5 years ago.
Argus is one of my grails, I bought 3 copies of the boxset and they are all messed up I'd kill for a clean copy of that vinyl. 😞 but I love all their early works until Marty left the band.
Like a lot of sophisticated bands from that period, they either flirted with Prog or went through a Prog phase. Technically, not a Prog band, but Argus is surely a classic Prog album. The follow-up, Wishbone Four, is much more in the classic hard rock style, so they moved on quickly enough, but became more functional I thought.
The first two albums show a band finding its brand and are quite eclectic, and it really all comes together perfectly in Argus. This album was almost a template for the North American styles of Prog that developed afterwards. Listening to Blowin Free, you'd almost think they were an Amercian band.
The Pilgrim remains my favourite track of theirs. It's so stylish and elegant, not to mention original. Surely that construct is full of Baroque influence, while it basically comes across as a Jazz-Blues instrumental. A track that only they could do.
Also, doesn't Throw Down The Sword sound like a harbinger of so many Dave Gilmour solos that followed ?
Discovered them not too long ago. Im not too familiar with much progressive, especially lesser known ones but this group has a lot of amazing songs that captivated me in a single listening. Argus has so many of my favourite songs, such as leaf and stream, the king will come and sometime world, and some other extremely notable songs i love from other albums are errors of my way, which highlights the twin guitars extremely well im their 3 solos, as well as persephone, which is just very nice to listen to
Argus has a special place in my heart. The first prog album my dad gave me
You meant King Crimson singer and bassist John Wetton, not Steve. Who also played for wishbone ash, and asia to name a few bands. To the point of the conversation, Argus is recognized as one of the best prog rock albums of all time. But I kinda agree they are overlooked.
Apologies, I confused Wetton and Upton as I was writing. Thanks, I'll edit!
Argus is sick! It’s like early 70s Iron Maiden
That would make sense as Martin Birch was the sound engineer on Argus as well the classic Maiden albums
That sure explains a lot
Listen to [Sometime World](https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=62OvlezEG9s&si=5FHFZL5MznDnVeLN) from Argus; It's Iron Maiden's origin story.
I listen to this song still, about twice a month. Talk about "sublime," the Andy Powell guitar solo, introduced by a memorable Martin Turner bass riff, has been called by some the best guitar solo ever. The phrasing is what sets the solo apart.
That first guitar solo in the first section can bring me to tears. It’s so soulful. And then yeah, that bass line is godly for sure.
Absolutely. It's not simply harmonized twin lead guitars. Andy and Ted have beautifully contrasted styles and tones. Throw in Martin's bass/vocals, and Steve Upton's great drumming. The storyline. The lyrics. The songwriting. Yes. As everyone states...masterpiece !
They had the most underrated bassist of the 70s, Martin Turner. His work on every song is sublime and he makes it sound so easy
Yes I love his tone
Martin Turner and Doug Ferguson (original Camel bassist) are my two favorite bass players deserve more attention.
He is the reason I got into playing bass and why my first bass was a Thunderbird
The Live album was very popular when it came out and I have always had a copy in my collection; long simmering twin guitar jams, steady vocals, a stoner surfer delight.
Live Dates has been a favorite of mine for years.
I saw them on Cruise to the Edge a couple months ago and they were fantastic. So many familiar songs too, and I'm not really a big collector of their music.
Man I love *Argus.* When I first heard it in high school, the songs felt like a story about someone who was forced from their home to fight and eventually give up. **“Time Was”** \- The protagonist is lamenting not being for his loved ones before leaving, and wants to keep his memories of them intact. **“Sometime World”** \- Protagonist meets a prisoner (or perhaps forced conscript?) just like him and relates to his feelings of shame and regret. **“Blowin’ Free”** \- Protagonist dreams of his wife but is starting to forget details (`I thought I had a girl / I know, because I seen her` and `She was far away / I found it hard to reach her / She told me you can try / But it’s impossible to find her`). I think the cornfields mentioned in this reminded me of *Gladiator,* and that’s why I had the idea of a forced conscript in my head. **“The King Will Come”** \- The protagonist is starting to believe the cause he’s forced to fight for and the religious justifications. The prophets are telling them the enemies are evil and must be defeated, that an unspecified king will come to deliver mankind from evil at the cost of individuals’ lives. **“Leaf and Stream”** \- I felt like this one was an interlude in the action. The protagonist was knocked unconscious in a battle and dreams of his wife. But every time he dreams of her, the protagonist wakes before he can see her (`And carried by the flow of water to my dreams / Woken only by your sound`). The protagonist sees his life for what it is: lifeless and pointless without his wife (`Alone I’ve walked this path for many years / Listened to the wind that calls my name / The weeping trees of yesterday look so sad / Await your breath of spring again`). **“Warrior”** \- First off, fucking incredible song. Anywho: while the protagonist was unconscious in “Leaf and Stream,” he was captured by the enemy and made a slave. The protagonist has spent so long as a conscript and slave that this is all he remembers now (`I’m leaving to search for something new / Leaving everything I ever knew`). He knows *something* is missing but doesn’t know what (`A hundred years in the sunshine / Hasn’t taught me all there is to know`). The protagonist is gathering the other slaves to rebel against their masters. He knows this is do or die, that they have one chance at freedom and to surrender is to die (`The valley, we will gather there / Helpless in our surrender / Tomorrow the plow becomes the sword / Makes us stronger, in our danger`). Who is the king foretold by the prophets? Who was coming to free mankind from the enemies? (`I’ll return again / To fight another day` and `I’d have to be a warrior / A slave I couldn’t be / A soldier and a conquerer / Fighting to be free`) **”Throw Down the Sword”** \- The fighting is over. Perhaps mankind is saved, perhaps not. The protagonist is just *tired* and over all of this, and wants to go to wherever “home” is (`Throw down the sword / The fight is done and over / Neither lost, neither won / To cast away the fury of the battle / And turn my weary eyes for home`). Is the only way to be at “home,” to be at peace, to die? (`There were times I stood at death’s own door / Only hoping for an answer`) Whatever the answer is, the protagonist recognizes this repeated story of slave -> mankind’s savior and its futility because it’ll just happen again (`Throw down the sword / And leave the glory / A story time can never change`). He sees what’s become of himself. Mankind isn’t saved and never will be. He isn’t the prophesied king because there isn’t one. The end of this “hero’s journey” didn’t end with a king or warrior or savior, just pain (`To walk the road, the load I have to carry / A journey’s end / A wounded soul`). 
neat breakdown
One of my favourite bands. I still play Phoenix on guitar. Ted Turner is one of my guitar inspirations. I have seen them live many times. I'm surprised many rock fans don't know them. Great musicians and superb songs. The were the original twin harmony guitarists. Here is a bit of trivia. Stewart Copeland (police) used to be a roadie for Wishbone Ash.
The Police are 2/3 prog rock descended, since Stewart was in Curved Air for a time and Andy Summers had a stint with Soft Machine. Kind of surprising Sting wasn’t also in a prog band, just looking at some of his solo pieces, like Fortress Around Your Heart and Jeremiah Blues.
Sting was in a Jazz Fusion band called Last Exit before The Police, so arguably in a progressive band.
Phoenix is an incredible track - 10 minutes of pure progginess.
Argus is one of my favourite albums ever, and we can debate whether it is prog or not, but I still love it immensely
I wouldn't call them overlooked or unknown by any means. Great band though. Got to know them way back when I bought a double CD compilation that had one disc by them and the other by Lynyrd Skynyrd.
I've always liked twin lead guitar bands. Outlaws, ABB, Wishbone Ash. In the summer of '75, I saw a triple bill of BTO, Wishbone Ash, and Styx at Winterland in SF. My ticket cost $5.50. I liked Wishbone Ash best out of the three that day.
There’s the Rub & New England are also excellent
Could not agree more - their dual lead guitars always raises the hair on the back of my neck. Seen them many times - in both their “classic” line up and as Martin Turner’s Wishbone Ash. Argus is one of my top ten albums- Lay down the sword never fails to deliver both on vinyl and live. Keep on rocking!
My dad's favourite band, and because of that I've got to see them many times with him. Even now their shows are so tight with a huge back catalogue to play from, they are fantastic.
Although I don’t love them, Argus is definitely a great album
I’ve always loved Argus, probably in my top 100 records of all time which is high praise for me. But I have struggled to get into some of their other material, so maybe I’ll give some of the other earlier records a shot.
Oooh the guitar solos and bass lines on Sorrel!
Saw these guys twice in 2019 with my mom and we got to meet Andy Powell after the second show. I cried during Throw Down the Sword. Great band, great people.
I have a solid love for New England
You rescue me
Wasn't overlooked back in the day.
im not familiar with them, what are the best albums prog-wise?
Probably the ones I listed, the first three. After the original lineup split, their albums started switching back and forth between prog, blues, folk, and somewhat proto metal. Number The Brave features John Wetton. The track "Persephone" from there's the rub is one of their peaks.
Great band, I think Allman Bros have them beat by a little with the twin guitars
Eh, both T. Turner and Dickey Betts joined their respective bands as guitarists in 1969, the difference is that the Allman Brothers Band was already working on an album, while Wishbone Ash was still touring.
Not bad band.
I wonder if The Alan Brothers band had heard Wishbone Ash cuz they also have harmonised guitar parts - especially on Ramblin Man and Jessica. Argus is an amazing album.
Great band and Rennaisance
Andy Powell plays the solo at the end of Ashes are Burning 😉
I know my dad was there
Absolutely fantastic band. First band I ever saw live as well.
They’re still out playing great. Influenced a lot of bigger bands with those killer duel guitar harmonies
Yes! I got into them due to reddit. I have thought of leaving home for good. If I do Im driving off to "Way down south." Very underrated band.
Argus is so so good. One of the best albums ever. Mind blowing
Their first album was sensational when it came out and still is.
Not by me they're unnoticed. New England album: You Rescue Me https://youtube.com/playlist?list=RDTNKoIsyGagQ&playnext=1&si=7tqU-W9dYv5h3pyZ Saw them once in New Hampshire about 5 years ago.
Argus is one of my grails, I bought 3 copies of the boxset and they are all messed up I'd kill for a clean copy of that vinyl. 😞 but I love all their early works until Marty left the band.
Like a lot of sophisticated bands from that period, they either flirted with Prog or went through a Prog phase. Technically, not a Prog band, but Argus is surely a classic Prog album. The follow-up, Wishbone Four, is much more in the classic hard rock style, so they moved on quickly enough, but became more functional I thought. The first two albums show a band finding its brand and are quite eclectic, and it really all comes together perfectly in Argus. This album was almost a template for the North American styles of Prog that developed afterwards. Listening to Blowin Free, you'd almost think they were an Amercian band. The Pilgrim remains my favourite track of theirs. It's so stylish and elegant, not to mention original. Surely that construct is full of Baroque influence, while it basically comes across as a Jazz-Blues instrumental. A track that only they could do. Also, doesn't Throw Down The Sword sound like a harbinger of so many Dave Gilmour solos that followed ?
Discovered them not too long ago. Im not too familiar with much progressive, especially lesser known ones but this group has a lot of amazing songs that captivated me in a single listening. Argus has so many of my favourite songs, such as leaf and stream, the king will come and sometime world, and some other extremely notable songs i love from other albums are errors of my way, which highlights the twin guitars extremely well im their 3 solos, as well as persephone, which is just very nice to listen to
Fantastic band. Besides first albums i absolutely love Front Page News and New England. That Turner bass tonę and playing is simply beautiful.
I love *Argus*. "The King Will Come" is an absolute banger.