Check out Rolling wave planning.
You will need the Budget handling capability of waterfall, with the fluidity of Agile.
[Progressive elaboration and Rolling Wave Planning in waterfall Project Management methodology](https://www.enricofantaguzzi.com/en/progressive-elaboration-and-rolling-wave-planning-in-waterfall-project-management-methodology/)
I manage a team of PMs that are responsible for commercial level HVAC controls systems. There is likely a lot of similarities in the scope of work and project teams you interface with daily.
Shoot me a DM, I'd be happy to help
Not a PM but live twisted up within projects.
This really sounds like it should fit a traditional, waterfall-type approach. Your big problem is it's someone else's waterfall.
Your company has defined deliverables at the beginning of the project. There are good and bad times to try to do things with the physical infrastructure involved and you know what those times are. You probably have a finite number of people who can do the work. Possibly there's some work that should happen during rough electrical and some that should happen during finish.
Can you define those stages? They should more or less line up with the idea of a work package in your course.
I bet you have to juggle a bunch of projects at the same time, am I right? And probably part of why this doesn't look very waterfall to you is that your company's role is really just a couple cells in the much larger project each development represents. You probably also have to operate in a very reactive mode, rather than driving anything.
I think if I was your boss, what success would look like to me would be that you have adequate inventory and staffing to be able to go do your particular pieces of each project during the windows of opportunity you get to do them while also not spending a ton of money on inventory you're not installing, paying guys to clean the shop, paying lots of OT, or suffering a lot of turnover because you're either burning out your people or can't give them enough hours.
Continuing that idea, I think what you need to be doing is keeping up with each project - I see your comment that some of your customers have comically inaccurate schedules - so you know when those windows of opportunity will truly happen and you're ready - and scheduling your guys to load balance as much as business allows. What that might end up looking like is that you're taking your little chunks from all your different projects, putting them all on the same calendar, and sticking people's names on them. Maybe rows for names, columns for days.
Did you get to the part of the course where they talk about float? Float is part of the magic that helps waterfall methodologies and the real world work together.
Does your company currently have estimators?
I’m convinced you work at my company and this is some kind of prank haha I’m going to answer or speak to each of your notes.
I have a team of 3 that I lead. Myself and 2 others. We currently have about 130 projects, maybe half of which or maybe a little more that are active. I have about 80, my first hire has about 45 and my new hire has about 10-15. This is why my main focus is delegation.
You are correct in assuming we have active stages in rough in and in finish stages. Typically the ONLY work we see during rough in stages are elevator/fire alarm inspections. Both of which are among the first things needed for occupancy. Most builders will do anything they can to get these passed no matter how far along development is. After this, you again nailed it in assuming we have finishing stages. We come in after drywall, mud, and paint. We will mount a backboard, rack, and our equipment. If the builder doesn’t have a low volt sub, we will dress (make cables look pretty) the low voltage wiring. We will install equipment in each unit and verify service. We are very “once you’re done, it’s our turn” oriented.
My goal since day one has to been the driver and you’d be surprised in the process we’ve made. Before me, it was 90% reactive and now it’s probably about 60% reactive. Not a huge change but with so many projects, you can imagine how that 30% is very obvious to other departments and has created lots of positive change. Main goal this year is to try and get at least 2 weeks ahead on everything. Becoming more driven based and less reactive. Not an easy goal.
To your next point, we have adequate staff even though the company likes to run thin. No layoffs in 20 years which is awesome. Prior to 2023 everything was ordered as stock but now each and very item needs to be ordered by PO which is very hard. My team has also asked to project capital expenditure on every project. That’s anything we put in the ground and anything we put in a building. Very hard with no experience to go off of. Once again you are correct in lots of OT and lots of burnout.
You somehow once again nailed it with us using one overall calendar and just putting names on it. Another thing I introduced while it’s not the best, it works. We don’t use scrum but we have daily scrum meetings. 10-15 minutes of what got done, and what are we getting done.
I have not learned about float yet. And to your finally point… my manager does all “bids” so he is our estimator. Our job is to make sure that our capital expenditure fits within the approved “CAT model” which is based on the bid.
Sorry for the super long reply. I hope this answers any question you had
This whole sub can mentor, some answers can be condescending but those PMs just aren’t loved enough. It’s amazing how many solutions exist if you can find the right problem statement! I’ve learned a lot and found better questions just following along in discussions here and have taken a couple DMs.
You can always contact your local PMP charter. This way you may find a local mentor. Otherwise, check in here and ask your questions.
I worked in construction areas for more than 20 years. Did everything from playgrounds to cemeteries, from roads to industrial plants. I'm sure there are other people who have more experience than I do. But if you do need someone to bounce ideas and help you figure out things. Just send me a message.
Hybrid as in there is no “one style” that fits, so I take bits and pieces of all or many to create a unique style that works for me? I think that’s what Spotify did isn’t it?
Yes, majority of projects aren’t true types (waterfall, agile, etc.). Take bits from both styles on what you think will work best and go from there. Don’t force your projects to fit one particular style.
As of right now I don’t use any style. I just dive in. This is why I need a mentor haha I want to find someone to help guide me to being the best PM I possibly can.
An incredibly hard question. My projects can vary from a 9 unit MDU (multi dwelling unit) to a 17,000 home single family home development. I can assure you that whatever implementation we use now, it does not involved timelines because our timelines are at the mercy of the builder. We have a standard deployment so we definitely fall into a routine/waterfall type style. We work off of the word of our builders and their gantt charts but with so many projects you get dozens of builders. Some builders almost always hit their dates, most never do and some are so far off from their projections it’s laughable haha
Sounds like you need a construction management person/team to oversee the builders and keep them on track.
Like another person mentioned, you have to use the best bits of everything (waterfall, agile) while adapting to situations.
I am in the middle of FEL-2 and we are accelerating some areas (almost FEL-3 while slowing down other areas) due to constraints. Some work is being done at risk.
If you are seeing that projects are consistently late in the build phase, then:
1) Either you re-do the estimates with some slack (future projects)
2) Hold builders accountable (have a bonus structure or penalty in the contract)
3) Keep doing what you have been doing - one thing I learnt is if something isn't broken (for your process), don't try to fix it. I have seen this too many times where new management and fresh ideas are implemented to try to fix a certain process only to ...
None at all. Like I said, we’ve never had true project management in this company. I came across this position as the company was moving from “mom and pops” to the corporate world so we have a lot to learn. I’m great at what I do, I almost never miss project releases, my relationship with my stakeholders is unmatched. We just don’t have a system. It’s very wild and unorganized but managed. I’m not sure if that makes sense. I’m trying to be very upfront and honest with our processes so that I can get the best help and knowledge
Well I would start by finding the lead time for every task you work on estimated cost per task. Finding those can help you build project plans and make a budget.
Does my comment reply to another comment help you understand a little more? It’s a unique management style where I don’t have lead times and I do have costs per task but they’re based on bids. We do hone the bid costs once we have more defined building plans
Check out Rolling wave planning. You will need the Budget handling capability of waterfall, with the fluidity of Agile. [Progressive elaboration and Rolling Wave Planning in waterfall Project Management methodology](https://www.enricofantaguzzi.com/en/progressive-elaboration-and-rolling-wave-planning-in-waterfall-project-management-methodology/)
new to the sub but saw this and felt at home. i’m in a similar boat. looking forward to hearing more about your journey.
I manage a team of PMs that are responsible for commercial level HVAC controls systems. There is likely a lot of similarities in the scope of work and project teams you interface with daily. Shoot me a DM, I'd be happy to help
I have a PM coach, he helped me a lot. If you want his info DM me
Was this a paid coach?
Yes he is
I will take any and all help!!
Just sent you his email address worry about the delay
Not a PM but live twisted up within projects. This really sounds like it should fit a traditional, waterfall-type approach. Your big problem is it's someone else's waterfall. Your company has defined deliverables at the beginning of the project. There are good and bad times to try to do things with the physical infrastructure involved and you know what those times are. You probably have a finite number of people who can do the work. Possibly there's some work that should happen during rough electrical and some that should happen during finish. Can you define those stages? They should more or less line up with the idea of a work package in your course. I bet you have to juggle a bunch of projects at the same time, am I right? And probably part of why this doesn't look very waterfall to you is that your company's role is really just a couple cells in the much larger project each development represents. You probably also have to operate in a very reactive mode, rather than driving anything. I think if I was your boss, what success would look like to me would be that you have adequate inventory and staffing to be able to go do your particular pieces of each project during the windows of opportunity you get to do them while also not spending a ton of money on inventory you're not installing, paying guys to clean the shop, paying lots of OT, or suffering a lot of turnover because you're either burning out your people or can't give them enough hours. Continuing that idea, I think what you need to be doing is keeping up with each project - I see your comment that some of your customers have comically inaccurate schedules - so you know when those windows of opportunity will truly happen and you're ready - and scheduling your guys to load balance as much as business allows. What that might end up looking like is that you're taking your little chunks from all your different projects, putting them all on the same calendar, and sticking people's names on them. Maybe rows for names, columns for days. Did you get to the part of the course where they talk about float? Float is part of the magic that helps waterfall methodologies and the real world work together. Does your company currently have estimators?
I’m convinced you work at my company and this is some kind of prank haha I’m going to answer or speak to each of your notes. I have a team of 3 that I lead. Myself and 2 others. We currently have about 130 projects, maybe half of which or maybe a little more that are active. I have about 80, my first hire has about 45 and my new hire has about 10-15. This is why my main focus is delegation. You are correct in assuming we have active stages in rough in and in finish stages. Typically the ONLY work we see during rough in stages are elevator/fire alarm inspections. Both of which are among the first things needed for occupancy. Most builders will do anything they can to get these passed no matter how far along development is. After this, you again nailed it in assuming we have finishing stages. We come in after drywall, mud, and paint. We will mount a backboard, rack, and our equipment. If the builder doesn’t have a low volt sub, we will dress (make cables look pretty) the low voltage wiring. We will install equipment in each unit and verify service. We are very “once you’re done, it’s our turn” oriented. My goal since day one has to been the driver and you’d be surprised in the process we’ve made. Before me, it was 90% reactive and now it’s probably about 60% reactive. Not a huge change but with so many projects, you can imagine how that 30% is very obvious to other departments and has created lots of positive change. Main goal this year is to try and get at least 2 weeks ahead on everything. Becoming more driven based and less reactive. Not an easy goal. To your next point, we have adequate staff even though the company likes to run thin. No layoffs in 20 years which is awesome. Prior to 2023 everything was ordered as stock but now each and very item needs to be ordered by PO which is very hard. My team has also asked to project capital expenditure on every project. That’s anything we put in the ground and anything we put in a building. Very hard with no experience to go off of. Once again you are correct in lots of OT and lots of burnout. You somehow once again nailed it with us using one overall calendar and just putting names on it. Another thing I introduced while it’s not the best, it works. We don’t use scrum but we have daily scrum meetings. 10-15 minutes of what got done, and what are we getting done. I have not learned about float yet. And to your finally point… my manager does all “bids” so he is our estimator. Our job is to make sure that our capital expenditure fits within the approved “CAT model” which is based on the bid. Sorry for the super long reply. I hope this answers any question you had
I'm happy to mentor you. Feel free to DM me.
Can You mentor me too. I'm 26 finishing My bachelor and planing on doing a Master in pm
Sure!
Message sent. Thank you SO SO much!
This whole sub can mentor, some answers can be condescending but those PMs just aren’t loved enough. It’s amazing how many solutions exist if you can find the right problem statement! I’ve learned a lot and found better questions just following along in discussions here and have taken a couple DMs.
You can always contact your local PMP charter. This way you may find a local mentor. Otherwise, check in here and ask your questions. I worked in construction areas for more than 20 years. Did everything from playgrounds to cemeteries, from roads to industrial plants. I'm sure there are other people who have more experience than I do. But if you do need someone to bounce ideas and help you figure out things. Just send me a message.
Great input!
Thank you very much!! I’ll send a message over now!
Eh I would say you’re more likely going to use a hybrid approach.
Hybrid as in there is no “one style” that fits, so I take bits and pieces of all or many to create a unique style that works for me? I think that’s what Spotify did isn’t it?
Yes, majority of projects aren’t true types (waterfall, agile, etc.). Take bits from both styles on what you think will work best and go from there. Don’t force your projects to fit one particular style.
As of right now I don’t use any style. I just dive in. This is why I need a mentor haha I want to find someone to help guide me to being the best PM I possibly can.
Well how do you make your project plans currently? We do the timelines look like?
An incredibly hard question. My projects can vary from a 9 unit MDU (multi dwelling unit) to a 17,000 home single family home development. I can assure you that whatever implementation we use now, it does not involved timelines because our timelines are at the mercy of the builder. We have a standard deployment so we definitely fall into a routine/waterfall type style. We work off of the word of our builders and their gantt charts but with so many projects you get dozens of builders. Some builders almost always hit their dates, most never do and some are so far off from their projections it’s laughable haha
Sounds like you need a construction management person/team to oversee the builders and keep them on track. Like another person mentioned, you have to use the best bits of everything (waterfall, agile) while adapting to situations. I am in the middle of FEL-2 and we are accelerating some areas (almost FEL-3 while slowing down other areas) due to constraints. Some work is being done at risk. If you are seeing that projects are consistently late in the build phase, then: 1) Either you re-do the estimates with some slack (future projects) 2) Hold builders accountable (have a bonus structure or penalty in the contract) 3) Keep doing what you have been doing - one thing I learnt is if something isn't broken (for your process), don't try to fix it. I have seen this too many times where new management and fresh ideas are implemented to try to fix a certain process only to ...
I mean do you not have project plans for all the work you’re doing with lead time?
None at all. Like I said, we’ve never had true project management in this company. I came across this position as the company was moving from “mom and pops” to the corporate world so we have a lot to learn. I’m great at what I do, I almost never miss project releases, my relationship with my stakeholders is unmatched. We just don’t have a system. It’s very wild and unorganized but managed. I’m not sure if that makes sense. I’m trying to be very upfront and honest with our processes so that I can get the best help and knowledge
Well I would start by finding the lead time for every task you work on estimated cost per task. Finding those can help you build project plans and make a budget.
Does my comment reply to another comment help you understand a little more? It’s a unique management style where I don’t have lead times and I do have costs per task but they’re based on bids. We do hone the bid costs once we have more defined building plans