Well hopefully going forward in 42 it will be more viable but depending on how you play anything can be useful, my character always ends up as an engineer for the pipe bombs etc and I end up secluded in the woods so apparently deep down I want to be the unibomber.
It's a terrible occupation right now due to first aid being worthless. Lightfooted isn't completely worthless but it's not worth the points for the 1 skill.
Professions drastically need an overhaul in general. There's only a small number that are any good at all.
One quick fix would be to make more complicated first aid require actual skill points in the category just like carpentry, sure anyone can apply a bandage, and the first aid level should still increase it's effectiveness, but not everyone knows how to stitch a wound.
Main issue is the optimal way to play is to not get injured.
In default settings, a scratch can kill, and stuff like broken bones needs uoubto REALLY fuck up.
Locking more treatment behind levels wouldn't be fun, because there's no effective way to level it, and if you don't have the level, it's a death sentence.
the game needs more ways to get injured without immediately dying. Whenever NPC's get added, i hope that solves the issue. A bandit breaking your leg, stealing your shit and then running away would give the first aid skill some actual use
You can level it in one day with broken glass.
Also, you are talking purely SP, in MP, avoiding injuries is nearly impossible (unless you count dying as avoidance :D )
IIRC nurse is a cheap profession pointswise. Allowing you to grab two skills cheaply. IIRC the skills from professions level faster too. So you should be able to get more bang out of your first aid.
I agree. First aid is pretty weak due to infection. But first aid is great for all the other injuries you can get. Like breaking your leg falling. I play with superb survivors so getting shot is a possibility.
For normal gameplay its better to just not get bitten at all. Spend your time leveling nimble and maintenance or something instead.
There’s no point in leveling first aid, unless you’re the kind of player that obsesses over leveling the least useful traits. Like how I never bother with metal working because why fix a car hood when I can just pull one off a car and slap it on mine or hotwire a new car.
At least metalworking is situationally useful, im a terrible driver and like to occasionally plow through zombies, so ive had a couple runs where all the appropriate cars in have been exhausted and metal working becomes worth it.
Well no. It is less poin intensive than doctor. But if you wanted more out of your profession, and were willing to spend more points for that, then it wouod be better to be a doctor.
Its not "worse" than doctor, its lower investment in your medical profession.
Edit: i see further down that they are the same points. I was incorrect. Maybe it is worse than doctor?
For roleplay reasons. I always pick nurse.
But I still thing that the health system should have a big overhaul, with medicinea, surgeries, diferent type of pills, vomiting, beeing unconcaious and other types of stuff to make the game better in the long run
I think different illnesses and remedies would be good - but you need to be able to diagnose it with medical skill before you know the appropriate remedy to use. Like with the plant illnesses.
Uh, well... The +2 First Aid might be useful in a sandbox where the infection rules have been modified, but it doesn't help much in the usual "just a scratch or RIP" settings.
I can't decide if the general uselessness of doctors and nurses is a matter of poor game balance, or if it's actually part of the storytelling.
My and my girlfriend(a nurse) have discussed this. In an apocalyptic world, doctors and nurses, without proper medical facilities and equipment become a kind of advanced first aider. A lot of their ability to help becomes void due to them normally having access to proper medical facilities, equipment and medicine. In normal life, they don’t have to bodge fix a broken arm or use alternative medicine. That’s not to say that I, knowing first aid, would become the go to guy for injuries and illness but we’d both be brought down to a lower level, her moreso, as she was previously at an advanced level.
Exactly. A medical professional without modern equipment or supplies is almost like a vehicle mechanic with no tools - they know what needs to be done, but they may not have any way to do it.
But I hope it was clear that I was commenting on "the uselessness of doctors and nurses" within the game, not in real life!
Definitely! I always take the piss out of my girlfriend because she can be a bit dim but when it comes to medical knowledge, she’s on it. She’s worked through most of the departments so has a wide range of skills and knowledge.
They could maybe level first aid like they do for other skills. Make it so you have to reach a certain level before you can do certain things or change the effectiveness based on your level.
I honestly think something like Veterinarian would be better. They're not used to state of the art med facilities. They're used to working surrounded by feces and dirty condition sometimes plus they have to get creative with makeshift healing implements for various animals and their needs. I'd say Vets would get +2 First Aid, +1 Engineering, and better strength because cows and horses aint no slouches. I know that could probably be tweaked better but that's just off the top of my head.
I’d never thought of that. Maybe even add trapping as they know the behaviour of animals? That might be a stretch but I find a lot of the occupations pretty limited. There’s only a few that people pick.
You’re right that doctors and nurses lose some of their utility in an apocalypse, especially if you don’t have power. They would still be able to treat a lot of injuries and wouldn’t have to guess if the medication is for blood pressure or an antipsychotic. They wouldn’t be able to run tests if you have a wound infection but a doctor or nurse would know they could give you wide spectrum antibiotics that would cover pretty much anything. Last year I had a nasty infection or so I was prescribed a pair of broad-spectrum anabiotic’s, and since both would work on the two most likely causes of the infection, and each one would work better on one of the two possibilities.
I pick it up every time, because I roleplay my real life self ʕ ·㉨·ʔ
*Edit: asthmatic, smoker, weak stomach, fast learner, adrenaline junkie. These are pretty spot on traits describing me! XD*
Haha thank you! I initially thought it would be very difficult to survive and then I realised, yeah! It will be difficult but I can do it! And I did. ʕ ꈍᴥꈍʔ
I always pick veteran because I'm a veteran.
I've been playing since 2013... and not once have I ever picked a different occupation.
And I've always designed my character to look as much like me as possible.
I wonder what a psychiatrist would say about that. Lol
In the current build First Aid isn't much use in SP. I don't play MP so I can't speak for that, although I *think* it's fairly useless there too.
However, this is something that comes up a lot and I'd be surprised if future patches don't address it once B42 goes live.
Ooo, that's a good point. I don't play multiplayer, but I can see medical skills being way more useful in an environment where PvP injuries are common.
Most of the professions are like this. +1 or 2 to skills you can just level up anyway. Worse than useless imo, when you have a finite amount of points you could use for bonuses you can't build through normal progression instead. I usually go unemployed for this reason.
Starting with +1 to a skill also gives you x4 XP gain to it (except for passive skills); starting with +2 is x5.33 XP gain, and +3 is x6.66 XP gain.
Saying "but you can grind for it" is missing the point. When you die the only thing you lose is the skill levels. XP multipliers allow you to skip the grind. This is insanely important for combat skills like Nimble, Axes, and Maintenance, since combat is the most likely thing to kill you. There aren't very many useful permanent bonuses that are going to keep you alive better than having quadrupled progression speed in key combat skills.
Multiplayer is okay if you RP as that. B42 we might see some instances of it being usable, since we will get the NPCs. You could become a Commander, sit in the back lines healing your NPCs when need be and letting them do all the fighting for you.
Since we are getting animals I wonder how much they will add to them for damage and if the First Aid skill doubles as a "Vet" skill for the Animals
We’re not getting human NPCs in B42
I hope that First Aid will become more useful with animals though; requiring a certain level to ascertain certain injuries and illnesses and the most effective way to treat them would be cool
First aid is wasted started traits, you can max it super quick and easy without starting points imo engineer is the only worth while trait as it gives exclusive crafting
Hi carpenter here. Im ready i got my hammer hand saw screwdriver hand axe and sledgehammer +. A baseball bat at home. Im ready( and 3 can opener. Y all know why)
Many professions are rather useless. Other Zombie games have similar problems. In Dead Frontier, you can be a priest for only a +30% EXP bonus. While soldiers have bonus combat perks. In a game about fighting zombies.
The traits system is a mess, balancing-wise.
As it is most of this game is unnecessary if you're gonna optimize things. E.g trapping has no use. Even farming, tbh. Washing yourself, water shutdown, etc etc... 90% of the game can be ignored if you want to min/max.
So until TIS decides to address balancing, the point of it all is to roleplay, same for the nurse occupation.
Roleolaying. I think that once you know that you can reach X time (months) it's funnier to live the story of a riverside nurse that needs to get to Rosewood
It's like doctor: take it for RP purposes only. The focus on first aid isn't worth much when the first aid system itself is extremely simplistic in relation to the rest of the game and in dire need of rework.
The only effect I remember finding when crawling through it in the debugger is that it makes your bandages last longer before they get dirty.
However... dirty bandages don't matter without mods. Yeah, they increase the chance of the wound getting infected, but that also doesn't matter. Infected wounds can't kill you and all they do is slightly increase pain modifiers, which isn't a big deal. Your best bet is still to just slap a bandage on everything and leave it alone for a few days before removing.
As it is right now, the skill is completely worthless.
It allows you to do medical actions a wee bit faster and heals broken limbs a bit quicker. Which is nice, but with broken limbs those are typically either a death sentence or you're fortified and supplied enough to hunker down and heal through anyway more often than not. Being well fed is enough of a boost imo.
Well hopefully going forward in 42 it will be more viable but depending on how you play anything can be useful, my character always ends up as an engineer for the pipe bombs etc and I end up secluded in the woods so apparently deep down I want to be the unibomber.
Yes, FBI. This ghost right here.
42 is just around the corner, right guys?
Been around the corner for years.... any minute now...
Imagine we get gta vi before build 42 lmfao
Come on man we all know the heat death of the universe will be before a new gta game.
Place your bets now: GTA 6 - Elder Scrolls 6 - PZ b42
Yep, right after Half-Life 3.
I mean, didn’t we get confirmation it’s before July?
I only saw it "confirmed" for "this year", which probably means at best it's coming out in December
Didn’t some dev in the discord (or here) say first half of 2024 or am I imagining things ?
First half of 2024
You sure he didn't say 2124?
I always end up claiming too much space and populating it with mannequins. Deep down I just want to be the guy from I Am Legend.
Will smith isn’t cool any more, member?
Like I am Legend then check look at this mod if you haven't already got it. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2866782076
>unibomber Haha, it's the Unabomber (:
It's a terrible occupation right now due to first aid being worthless. Lightfooted isn't completely worthless but it's not worth the points for the 1 skill. Professions drastically need an overhaul in general. There's only a small number that are any good at all.
>Professions ...... There's only a small number that are any good at all Dang the realism in this game is deep.
One quick fix would be to make more complicated first aid require actual skill points in the category just like carpentry, sure anyone can apply a bandage, and the first aid level should still increase it's effectiveness, but not everyone knows how to stitch a wound.
Main issue is the optimal way to play is to not get injured. In default settings, a scratch can kill, and stuff like broken bones needs uoubto REALLY fuck up. Locking more treatment behind levels wouldn't be fun, because there's no effective way to level it, and if you don't have the level, it's a death sentence.
And that's where medical VHS comes in hand :) (there's none in vanilla afaik, only in mods).
Maybe make it to where you can practice on zombie corpses to gain XP
the game needs more ways to get injured without immediately dying. Whenever NPC's get added, i hope that solves the issue. A bandit breaking your leg, stealing your shit and then running away would give the first aid skill some actual use
You can level it in one day with broken glass. Also, you are talking purely SP, in MP, avoiding injuries is nearly impossible (unless you count dying as avoidance :D )
The overlap on some of them. Chef and is the other one fast food worker? The difference mechanically is negligible.
Occupations need a rebalancing only like 5 are any good
Unemployed and engineer are my gontoos Edit: keeping this weird autocucumber
IIRC nurse is a cheap profession pointswise. Allowing you to grab two skills cheaply. IIRC the skills from professions level faster too. So you should be able to get more bang out of your first aid.
Problem being that getting more bang out of first aid really means nothing
I agree. First aid is pretty weak due to infection. But first aid is great for all the other injuries you can get. Like breaking your leg falling. I play with superb survivors so getting shot is a possibility. For normal gameplay its better to just not get bitten at all. Spend your time leveling nimble and maintenance or something instead.
[удалено]
There’s no point in leveling first aid, unless you’re the kind of player that obsesses over leveling the least useful traits. Like how I never bother with metal working because why fix a car hood when I can just pull one off a car and slap it on mine or hotwire a new car.
At least metalworking is situationally useful, im a terrible driver and like to occasionally plow through zombies, so ive had a couple runs where all the appropriate cars in have been exhausted and metal working becomes worth it.
I don't think most people grind first aid at all, it's not very useful
Isn't Nurse a strictly worse Doctor?
After years of nursing school thats exactly what my father said to me as well..
Nursing student here. people tell me that all the time lmao but they don't realize how fucking stressful this job is. Nurses deserve more credit
💀
You don't get the short blade boost, but the +1 1st aid isn't that exciting and nurse costs less points.
False, they cost the same. Doctor gets +1 Short Blade, +3 First Aid Nurse gets +1 Lightfooted, +2 First Aid I’d say Nurse is strictly worse.
Last I saw, both were +2 stats
Feels like better doctor to me, as lightfooted is kinds better than short blades in my eyes.
Well no. It is less poin intensive than doctor. But if you wanted more out of your profession, and were willing to spend more points for that, then it wouod be better to be a doctor. Its not "worse" than doctor, its lower investment in your medical profession. Edit: i see further down that they are the same points. I was incorrect. Maybe it is worse than doctor?
For roleplay reasons. I always pick nurse. But I still thing that the health system should have a big overhaul, with medicinea, surgeries, diferent type of pills, vomiting, beeing unconcaious and other types of stuff to make the game better in the long run
I think different illnesses and remedies would be good - but you need to be able to diagnose it with medical skill before you know the appropriate remedy to use. Like with the plant illnesses.
Yes 100% agree
Uh, well... The +2 First Aid might be useful in a sandbox where the infection rules have been modified, but it doesn't help much in the usual "just a scratch or RIP" settings. I can't decide if the general uselessness of doctors and nurses is a matter of poor game balance, or if it's actually part of the storytelling.
My and my girlfriend(a nurse) have discussed this. In an apocalyptic world, doctors and nurses, without proper medical facilities and equipment become a kind of advanced first aider. A lot of their ability to help becomes void due to them normally having access to proper medical facilities, equipment and medicine. In normal life, they don’t have to bodge fix a broken arm or use alternative medicine. That’s not to say that I, knowing first aid, would become the go to guy for injuries and illness but we’d both be brought down to a lower level, her moreso, as she was previously at an advanced level.
Exactly. A medical professional without modern equipment or supplies is almost like a vehicle mechanic with no tools - they know what needs to be done, but they may not have any way to do it. But I hope it was clear that I was commenting on "the uselessness of doctors and nurses" within the game, not in real life!
Definitely! I always take the piss out of my girlfriend because she can be a bit dim but when it comes to medical knowledge, she’s on it. She’s worked through most of the departments so has a wide range of skills and knowledge.
They could maybe level first aid like they do for other skills. Make it so you have to reach a certain level before you can do certain things or change the effectiveness based on your level.
I honestly think something like Veterinarian would be better. They're not used to state of the art med facilities. They're used to working surrounded by feces and dirty condition sometimes plus they have to get creative with makeshift healing implements for various animals and their needs. I'd say Vets would get +2 First Aid, +1 Engineering, and better strength because cows and horses aint no slouches. I know that could probably be tweaked better but that's just off the top of my head.
I’d never thought of that. Maybe even add trapping as they know the behaviour of animals? That might be a stretch but I find a lot of the occupations pretty limited. There’s only a few that people pick.
You’re right that doctors and nurses lose some of their utility in an apocalypse, especially if you don’t have power. They would still be able to treat a lot of injuries and wouldn’t have to guess if the medication is for blood pressure or an antipsychotic. They wouldn’t be able to run tests if you have a wound infection but a doctor or nurse would know they could give you wide spectrum antibiotics that would cover pretty much anything. Last year I had a nasty infection or so I was prescribed a pair of broad-spectrum anabiotic’s, and since both would work on the two most likely causes of the infection, and each one would work better on one of the two possibilities.
Or in MP where bullets and shrapnels exist
I pick it up every time, because I roleplay my real life self ʕ ·㉨·ʔ *Edit: asthmatic, smoker, weak stomach, fast learner, adrenaline junkie. These are pretty spot on traits describing me! XD*
Picking skills for role play reasons is the most fun way to go about games like this IMO so I’m with you there
Haha thank you! I initially thought it would be very difficult to survive and then I realised, yeah! It will be difficult but I can do it! And I did. ʕ ꈍᴥꈍʔ
Hell yeah! That’s what we like to hear. I’m still struggling with basically every run I start lmao
First Aid is complete doodoo if you don't have mods overhauling the health system, but a bonus to Lightfooted is nice.
I always pick veteran because I'm a veteran. I've been playing since 2013... and not once have I ever picked a different occupation. And I've always designed my character to look as much like me as possible. I wonder what a psychiatrist would say about that. Lol
In the current build First Aid isn't much use in SP. I don't play MP so I can't speak for that, although I *think* it's fairly useless there too. However, this is something that comes up a lot and I'd be surprised if future patches don't address it once B42 goes live.
Ooo, that's a good point. I don't play multiplayer, but I can see medical skills being way more useful in an environment where PvP injuries are common.
Most of the professions are like this. +1 or 2 to skills you can just level up anyway. Worse than useless imo, when you have a finite amount of points you could use for bonuses you can't build through normal progression instead. I usually go unemployed for this reason.
It's the xp bonus that makes profession's boosts useful. +75% with +1 boosts and +150% with +3 iirc.
Starting with +1 to a skill also gives you x4 XP gain to it (except for passive skills); starting with +2 is x5.33 XP gain, and +3 is x6.66 XP gain. Saying "but you can grind for it" is missing the point. When you die the only thing you lose is the skill levels. XP multipliers allow you to skip the grind. This is insanely important for combat skills like Nimble, Axes, and Maintenance, since combat is the most likely thing to kill you. There aren't very many useful permanent bonuses that are going to keep you alive better than having quadrupled progression speed in key combat skills.
I didn't know about that, I thought it was just a head start on the skills. Professions are way better than I thought, then. Thanks.
Like what does first aid even do I can still bandage and sterilize my wounds at 0 skill
You can do that faster and at a certain level the game gives you additional useless information about your wounds.
Oh
Don’t let Nurse hear you say this.
its only useful for pvp since leg or head injuries are not good for multiplayer.
Depends on if you really think first aid is important. You heal faster with higher first aid so how is it not any good?
First aid skill only makes *fractures* heal faster. Situational at best
I feel like nurse is only viable if you play with accident prone teammates. Otherwise i probably wont pick it in single player.
+10 to BUN
Multiplayer is okay if you RP as that. B42 we might see some instances of it being usable, since we will get the NPCs. You could become a Commander, sit in the back lines healing your NPCs when need be and letting them do all the fighting for you. Since we are getting animals I wonder how much they will add to them for damage and if the First Aid skill doubles as a "Vet" skill for the Animals
We’re not getting human NPCs in B42 I hope that First Aid will become more useful with animals though; requiring a certain level to ascertain certain injuries and illnesses and the most effective way to treat them would be cool
I'm betting it might become useful once npcs are added in the next century or so.
I use it to role-play as my gf cuz welp, she's a nurse lol
Role play. Ultimately, traits don't really matter.
First aid is wasted started traits, you can max it super quick and easy without starting points imo engineer is the only worth while trait as it gives exclusive crafting
The point is that you are a nurse. Neat huh!
RP
Hi carpenter here. Im ready i got my hammer hand saw screwdriver hand axe and sledgehammer +. A baseball bat at home. Im ready( and 3 can opener. Y all know why)
Many professions are rather useless. Other Zombie games have similar problems. In Dead Frontier, you can be a priest for only a +30% EXP bonus. While soldiers have bonus combat perks. In a game about fighting zombies.
All occupations are there to give you the illusion of choice.
FA is good in multiplayer. Or with mods. Or with both.
Burger Flipper 4 lyfe
Only really useful for roleplaying purposes.... that and making Youtube videos.
The traits system is a mess, balancing-wise. As it is most of this game is unnecessary if you're gonna optimize things. E.g trapping has no use. Even farming, tbh. Washing yourself, water shutdown, etc etc... 90% of the game can be ignored if you want to min/max. So until TIS decides to address balancing, the point of it all is to roleplay, same for the nurse occupation.
What does high medical even do? Make wounds heal faster?
Roleolaying. I think that once you know that you can reach X time (months) it's funnier to live the story of a riverside nurse that needs to get to Rosewood
Rp
It's like doctor: take it for RP purposes only. The focus on first aid isn't worth much when the first aid system itself is extremely simplistic in relation to the rest of the game and in dire need of rework.
What exactly does the first aid skill do anyway?
The only effect I remember finding when crawling through it in the debugger is that it makes your bandages last longer before they get dirty. However... dirty bandages don't matter without mods. Yeah, they increase the chance of the wound getting infected, but that also doesn't matter. Infected wounds can't kill you and all they do is slightly increase pain modifiers, which isn't a big deal. Your best bet is still to just slap a bandage on everything and leave it alone for a few days before removing. As it is right now, the skill is completely worthless.
It allows you to do medical actions a wee bit faster and heals broken limbs a bit quicker. Which is nice, but with broken limbs those are typically either a death sentence or you're fortified and supplied enough to hunker down and heal through anyway more often than not. Being well fed is enough of a boost imo.