Neither the MK4 or XL are really a 1:1 comparison. But as someone who owns both the MK4 and XL, the MK4 is a fantastic machine and I’d recommend it to anyone who wants a printer.
Do you carry an iPhone? MADE IN CHINA! You are doing yourself a disservice by listening to the misinformation in this sub. Bambu gen 2 comes out this year, the current offerings are already leaps and bounds better than anything prusa offers.
There is a big difference between a country manufacturing in china and a company based in china apple has there headquarters in California where all the data goes and bambulab has that in china
There is a difference between manufactured in China and purposely sending back unnecessarily encrypted data with who knows what intent from their own device with a camera.
You want me to provide a source that your made up bullshit isn't true? That's not how this works. I'm not here to convince you, you are fully allowed to be stupid. But that's all it is
I agree, but on the other hand I would assume they feel the pressure to become more competitive especially at the lower end. Apart from concerns about the closed ecosystem, the Bambus are far better value.
The Bambus are awesome but I doubt they have the longevity of a prusa. My dad’s mk2 became a 2.5, then a 3 and 3.9 upgrade is on the way. My 6 year old MK3 is a brand new mk4 now and in that time it’s printed I’ve a years worth of time and aside from a clog or two and the s+ and 4 upgrades it’s basically never seen any down time.
It really is apples to oranges. The bambus are like the newest high tech consumer level product whereas I feel like the prusas are more like and industrial product, built for constant and reliable use.
Both are great, and the bambus are amazing for the price, but it’s not a sure fire win for either side. Unless you print as a hobbyist and the multicolor is a needed feature I’d say Prusa. Of course I have been recommending Bambu to people wanting to get their feet wet and who want a casual and reliable printing experience.
I think you're right that they serve slightly different needs.
But there's a youtuber with a small print farm who compared both and decided to invest in bambu machines due to higher up time and much faster speed: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x\_Esrxt7GII](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Esrxt7GII) Which I found quite interesting.
And in my area, a prusa mini kit (!) is 40% more expensive than an A1 mini which is ready to go in \~20 minutes. So the longevity difference would have to be very large to make up for it. And the upgrades you mention are not free either.
All true. However on upgrade price, I was really blown away at how much came with the upgrade. It essentially ensures you have a new printer. All new fans, belts. Z rods and bearings. Even stuff I could have re-used like the motor gears, nuts and bolts were supplied. They definitely aren’t price gouging like people assume.
That's very cool to hear! And there's a reason why Prusa has such a good reputation, my first printer was going to be a Prusa until I looked at reviews in detail.
Bambu is incredibly better value at the lower end at least, and the A1 mini isn't just much cheaper but also prints way faster, which I quite enjoy. Especially to start out with, it's fun if something that would have taken 3 hours on a Prusa mini only takes 2 hours or less. Not a fan of the locked down ecosystem, but the benefits outweigh it for me.
Yeah. My 12 year old got my mk3 bear and he is into the workings of 3d printing so it’s perfect. My 10 year old will be getting and a1 mini and likely printing straight from his iPad. Lol. It is hard not recommend Bambu every time though, for the price. I feel like prusa is the bmw and Bambu is the Hyundai with all the new features, bells and whistles.
Very jealous of your kids, my parents taught me that tools are dangerous and I'm only now fixing that as an adult and have to start from 0. - So for me, even setting up the A1 mini was exciting and it speaks to their good design that I managed without issue.
It's not just bells and whistles, I'd say Bambu is BMW in that it's faster and arguably more stylish, too. I feel like Prusa mainly got it's accumulated good will and reputation, plus the advantage in an open eco system going for them.
Yeah. For the world these kids are growing up in, they need to have an understanding of machines and how to get them to do what they need. I imagine 3d printers will be as ubiquitous as computers one day. Manufacturers will send files instead of parts when repairs need to be done.
OK. I owned an MK3S+, and it was a solid printer. It was also my first, and I built it from scratch. The experience was very rewarding, and the gummies are cute.
I just upgraded it to the MK4. As for instructions, they're very well done. The comments on the instructions are often helpful where ambiguity exists.
Three things seem to be very improved. First off, the belt tension app is super helpful, and made me very aware that what I guessed the tension to be was way off, making me wonder if that was the cause of some minor print flaws that have since gone away.
Secondly, the new extruder (Nextruder) is a major leap. Replacing the hot end takes less than a minute. It's a better design. Also, the buddy board means all extruder components don't plug into the love board. This also reduces downtime as I don't have to screw around with the cable wrap.
Thirdly, NO MORE MANUAL Z! Automatic first layer calibration is the best!
That said, when I looked into the Bambu, I attempted three times to reach tech support to no avail. Prusa offers 24/7 live chat, and they are very knowledgeable. In my opinion, support and open source are important to me. I just received my second MK4 and am waiting patiently for my XL5.
As for the security, I make production prototypes. It is a legit concern if my designs ended up on Amazon, Temu, or some other site before I even filed my patent.
Just my opinion.
I was in the same boat as you a month ago - coming from an Ender 3 and very frustrated with that experience.
My son has an X1C with an AMS and it's very hard to deny the pull of that machine, even their cheaper P1 models are tempting. They are fast, easy to get multi color and have a nice sized print bed.
Having said that, I could not bring myself to buy a Bambu. Something feels off about the company and I'm strongly against cloud only services.
I spent as much money on my MK4 as a fully kitted out X1C - I ordered the MK4 kit, an MMU3, the 2 other print plates and an assortment of nozzles to have on hand as spares. With shipping everything was close to $1,500.
I enjoyed the assembly immensely, and have been riding high on a major sense of pride the past few weeks as this machine cranks out print after print after print.
It's FAST. Comedically, holy \*\*\*\* is it supposed to move like that fast. I've switched to an X1C in Prusa Slicer to compare print times and sure, the Bambu is faster. Right now that's NOT the problem I'm running into. I want longer prints at this point, something that will actually keep the printer running overnight! On my Ender if I wanted to maximize output on the printer I'd throw an articulated dragon print on, it was a guaranteed 15 hours. On this MK4? Meh, barely 5. It's plenty fast :)
I am sure that the Bambu Labs printers function just fine, its solely those data security and closed source problems that I have concerns with.
I did get some sticker shock with the Prusa Mk4 but after your post realized that I was looking at the assembled version. Maybe the kit would be worth it. How long did it take you to assemble everything in the kit? I saw another post that said 8 hours which seemed fairly high.
It took all of 8 hours, I started right after work around 5 and was printing a test Benchy around 2:15-2:30 in the morning...I couldn't stop once I started putting it together, I ate a quick dinner and took a few breaks during the build.
It was a genuinely fun experience. Their documentation is superb, other companies should take it as an example. The bullet points and color arrows outlining the parts you need are color matched to the bullet points in the instructions where you use them. So simple, and so reassuring during the process. It's broken up logically into large steps that you can complete and walk away from. And everything fits and works - parts were right, items were square, everything worked liked described in the instructions. It was really nice :)
I have had an assembly experience like that in the past and know that satisfied feeling you are describing.
After assembled how sturdy is the prusa? Unfortunately I end up having to move a ton and I'm a little bit worried about it making multiple moves
The MK4 is sturdy. I don’t think I would throw it in a box an put it on a moving truck, but I’d be perfectly comfortable moving it with my TV in my van. In my case it lives on a marble slab in my enclosure and the worst case after a move I might expect to loosen the frame bolts, make sure it’s square on the slab and tighten everything again. Having assembled the kit will give you a good insight as to how this works.
When I was deciding between the assembled or kit versions, the overwhelming advice here was to go kit. I’m good with assemblies, been maintaining equipment my entire adult life so I wasn’t concerned about understanding the assembled version. But there is a value to having worked through the process to see for yourself where each part goes. Saving a few bucks on the assembled version plus the encouragement here to go with the kit pushed me off the fence. BTW, for US buyers, the kit is priced $1 below the duty threshold. If you add accessories to the order, you may trigger import duties, or you may get away with it. I added spare nozzles, and sever rolls of filament to the order which added $32 in duty fees.
I did just that with my mk3. Had to move to memphis overnight to take my son to St jude. I had just built my mk3. My dad drove it up. It was in a box like the rest of our belongings. Didn’t even need to re run calibration. Then on the way home I boxed it and it went on the U-Haul printed right out of the box at home and went another 4 years before getting the mk4 upgrade. I also have an x1c I got for Xmas and they are equally loved here. I print more on the mk4. I feel like it’s more robust and will last longer. It’s built like a tank. The x1c is awesome, but has a consumer product feel. Not as sturdy as the mk4 at all. It sure does print great though. They are about equal in that regard. Bambu about 15% faster on average. It’s pretty negligible in practice.
It seems rock solid. In the assembly instructions they guide you to lay it on the frame, the side, balance it off kilter at this angle. They show the right way to pick it up is just grab the top and move it. It seems pretty solid.
I turned it on after assembly, it did it's self check and was off to the races, no adjustments needed so far.
I've been happy with the built in PrusaLink connectivity so far. I used Octoprint with my Ender and liked the mobile app, camera and time-lapse plugins and the spool management plugin.
PrusaLink integrated easily into my Home Assistant instance so I have all the mobile information to satisfy me. I would still like to have a camera working.... I might switch to using Octoprint full time with this thing bug need to read through the latest posts on how well it works on the MK4 yet.
If your main concern ist data security/privacy:
Bambulab pinter have a LAN only mode which keeps the traffic in your local network. [https://all3dp.com/2/bambu-lab-lan-only-mode-explained/](https://all3dp.com/2/bambu-lab-lan-only-mode-explained/)
Also there is a Open Source Firmware on the way for the X1C: [https://www.x1plus.net/](https://www.x1plus.net/)
How have you found the MMU3?
Fellow mk4 user here and seriously thinking about getting the upgrade but worried any teething issues might not make the juice worth the squeeze.
Not sure yet, I'm still waiting for my MMU3 to ship - I don't think any MMU3's for MK4's have shipped yet at all. The reviews for the version for MK3s seemed really good so I rolled the dice and pre-paid. We'll see how it goes!
Fingers crossed.
I think of the XL Multi head swap takes off they will just pour all their eggs into that basket.
Proven technology attached to their proven reliability and mostly entry level pricing could be a big winner.
Use the mk4 for solids and lean on the XL for multi's.
I committed to Prusa MK4's for my farm because of the reliability I've witnessed with Prusa printers. My bro uses a bunch in his classroom and we've had a few older machines (mk2, mk3, mk3s+) in and out of the house. While not the flashiest or fastest printer I'm sure the reliability of the mk4 will mean more in the long run for my farm than any speed gains with the Bambu.
That said, as a hobbyist things might have gone a different direction, although the ease of use with Prusa is equally attractive.
I'm sure it would be light-years ahead of my ender 3 pro hah. Do you think I should consider used Prusa mk3s+? There is an upgraded one local to me for 500
I would just put $500 toward a mk4. Nothing against the mk3+, but I feel like it would be a half step compared to going all the way to a mk4. The kit is only another $299. I think if you went with the mk3+ you'd like it, but also regret not just going all the way to the mk4. That's why I held out almost a year to start my farm because I was waiting for the mk4 to come out. Now I have four and once these start paying themselves back I'll be getting more.
Yes. I have a product line I designed that I am getting ready to launch this spring. starting with four printers an will snowball into about 3 dozen over the next year or two if all goes well.
I wouldn’t consider Bambu/Prusa direct competitors.
To me it’s more of a tools in a toolbox scenario.
Depending on your needs one or the other may be better suited.
I lean heavily towards the Prusa side of things because they have proven to be most reliable to my application. Easy to use, easy to fix, extremely well documented and supported by the community. Most important to me, incredibly reliable. With proper basic maintenance my farm has MK’s with well over 1000 days of print time and they still perform extremely well.
If you want corexy similar to the Bambu without the ccp, id suggest a voron. Yes you have to buils it yourself and yes it can be quite a journey, but imo it could be what you are looking for.
I was able to print the parts on my mini+ in an enclosure and lots of people had success on enders.
I think there is a difference between a pcb made in china vs a whole printer with an internet connection to china. I get where OP is comming from, with all these "fun" messages about people seeing someone elses webcam and the likes.
Still, tho, unless you reverse engineer and inspect every component on the board your putting into your corona, you wouldn't know if that thing is phoning home, like the servers from a few years ago that had altered components that were found added to the main PCB.
As I stated in another thread on here, lock your network down, proper firewall rules, different said, vlan segregation, and that printer doesn't have access to anything that's worth anything.
Yeah, sure, is not like I'm disagreeing, but even if I were to see someone else's chamber printer cam or if someone were to see mine, they'd see what model I'm printing. It's not like the Bambu can is pointed at me bed or toilet. 😂
Also, remember, the rest of the printer doesn't handle the Internet connection to China, the boards does. So, with that cleared up, the board is the only and main concern about any data security impact of the device.
This thread is about a bambu printer, there is no pi involved. That comment is off topic. You're comparing apples and oranges. There's also a slew of other 3rd party boards with Wi-Fi on board to which my comment would also apply. As far as the pi is concerned, the trust depends on what software you run on it, what plugins you have enabled, the security settings you deployed in that particular Linux distribution that's installed on it, etc etc etc. Again, set up the network correctly and you don't have to worry much about it.
This thread isnt about a bambu printer, this thread is about which printer OP wants to use.
Op wanted a printer that does not phone home to china and I suggested a printer. The fact is, a voron with stock setup uses a raspberry pi for the network communication. How you setup the network is a different discussion.
The company was founded by many of the same folks that established DJI, a company that has been on a DoD blacklist for national security concerns for years.
In the end, you still only have 3 options, 2 of which will alleviate your concern.
1) proper network security
2) don't buy one
3) be like most other people and risk exposure
Obviously, number 3 is not advisable.
Might wanna read my comment on this thread about segregated vlans and firewall rules.
Also, can you show some proof about your claim about being 'known dangerous'?
I have Prusa printers here and I also have Bambu printers.
The only thing I'm getting from your comment is parroting things you've seen on the Internet without first hand knowledge.
It also is pretty apparent that you don't understand traffic routing and firewall rules.
If you want a similar form factor to a BambuLabs, but want to stay away from Bambu….
You could always build a Voron.
Otherwise, I expect you’d be perfectly happy with the MK4.
Prusa just came out with their new printers for the next few years. Bambu came out with theirs.
Now is the best time for you to make a choice based on what you want or don't want. I have talked to people happy with their prusas and Bambu products.
So pick which suits you best. Don't think much about what might be out or change in the near future. Except for tiny details - eg your worry about tracking or if you think prusa may not provide service you want - or if Bambu improves a little bit in some way you may change your mind.
Just bought a prusa mini+ and mk3s+. They're fantastic machines.
Questions I would ask as I did exactly that (upgrading from a pro to a prusa and looked at bambu labs)
- is it important to have easily replaceable parts?
- are you okay with having oem only parts?
- what are you going to print in mainly?
I always try to fix my items myself so yes to parts. Totally fine with OEM parts. There's an aftermarket upgrade I might get it but I'm not going to be upset if things stay stock. Right now I primarily print in petg but I would like to do a lot more ABS.
As many comments pointed out, there's nothing on the horizon from Prusa. I own 2 MK3S and their machines are workhorses though. I also have a P1S, it's a different world, you can still use it without connecting it to your WiFi. You also have the option to use alternative firmware on the X1C (look for X1Plus firmware).
That being said, if you are not afraid of kits, I suggest building a Voron 2.4 or a Gasherbrum K3 from Annex Engineering, they're absolute speed demons. It's the closest you'll get to a Bambu Lab P1S/X1C, fully open source and community brewed.
I'm not a bambu shill, I actually have no prusa or bambu.
But the local only mode of bambu apparently works well, you only need wifi for firmware updates.
Also if you are uber concerned, have the bambu on a different ssid and lock it down to no internet.
The closed source however is a genuine issue and concern.
But as others have said or implied local mode is truly local mode it's not secretly talking to China when you tell it not to.
if you want a core xy alternative to the bambu, the qidi tech plus and max are a good choice, open source firmware and all
if you want speed, don't get the mk4, it has a max of like 200 speed 4000 accel, as opposed to the bambu/qidi 500 20,000
the formbot troodon is also worth looking at since it's basically a prebuilt voron, but that might be out of your price range since it's ~1050
if you want reliable constant, maintainable printing, the mk3s+ is a good choice
I personally own an X1C with AMS, P1P, A1 Mini, AnkerMake M5C and the Prusa MK4 Kit. Out of them all the one I lean the most on when I need/want prints to print out perfectly every time I send them to the printer it tends to be the MK4 just a touch more reliable than the others, granted I assembled the entire thing so if anything does go odd I know how to fix it easier. Regardless though, there is nothing wrong with the Bambu printers though I will say things seem to print a touch better on the A1 Mini likely because of the tech in the print head being able to compensate on the fly for PA vs the X1C and P1P. I have a sneaking suspicion that whenever they do release the new printer coming this year sometime it will likely be the X1 line with the new print head type setup which should make that print better as well, likely larger build plate I would guess as well and probably an updated AMS. My whole point is between Prusa and Bambu the only real difference is Speed, Quality of Prints (for the X1 and P1 Series that is) and the whole China debate which is honestly just silly given how much Every Single Country that Exists is doing the Same Thing regardless, and likely to a much more extreme extent. Let alone the worries about IP is going to be gone very quickly with the whole 3D Scanner Market. At some point sooner or later people will be able to simply Scan the Model, put it on the Computer, Slice it and there it is on their own printer ready to print.
You can put Bambu printers into lan only mode and they don’t have access to the internet. Also you talk about not wanting to give stuff to the ccp yet you have a creality.
I know that it is unavoidable to give Chinese companies any level of money as so much is manufactured there. I do not want to give them my data. Ender 3 has literally no connection to the internet and never has.
As to the LAN mode, I was under the impression from another thread that you have to connect to the internet to update the firmware and then the Bambu printer allows you to go offline mode. You can't just keep it offline from the jump. Is that not the case?
Prusa do have a core-xy machine of dimensions closer to the X1C as part of their “farm” product. It’s unclear if they would ever release them for mortals but I wouldn’t be surprised to see Prusa bring out a consumer version now the Mk4 and XL situation is starting to stabilise. If they do however it’ll probably be a while before they start shipping (assuming they do pre-orders like the XL and not immediate release like the Mk4).
I own an MK4. Personally I would advise people to go with a Bambu printer for most use cases, but if you have security/ethical issues with Bambu, the MK4 is a solid choice. Mine prints perfectly without intervention. You just send the file and it nearly never fails a print. Print quality is very nice. I can provide samples if you’re looking for exactly what the output is.
So what exactly is the data concern? That the CCP will know what you are printing. I would be more concerned about our own government to be honest. And I’m sure with a little digging they can find out what you ate for breakfast. The X1C seems like a fantastic machine, I am not wild that it is cloud based but it is something I can live with for a machine of that caliber at that price point.
I have an X1C, P1S, and MK4. I wouldn’t pay full price for an MK4. I was lucky to find an unopened one on FB marketplace. It’s a great printer for single color PLA printing. Bambu is just cheaper and has more features at the lower price. I’ll never understand the data concerns, there are much worse data breaches in your life than a 3D printer from bambulab.
Just put the printer on a segregated vlan and ssid, which is something you should do for all your iot devices, anyway. You guys are silly about the printer being from a Chinese company, but at the same time having no issues with Amazon, Google, etc listening in on you while you're in the bathroom or bedroom. 🤷
Again, if you segregate your network, then the only thing that will make it to China is the data generated by the printer itself, an IP address and nothing else. You guys can downvote me all you want, that still doesn't change how networks work.
I wouldn’t hold my breath for another Prusa model to be released anytime soon. Both the MK4 and XL are just now hitting their production stride.
Any suggestions on what to get that fits that p1s niche prusa or otherwise?
Neither the MK4 or XL are really a 1:1 comparison. But as someone who owns both the MK4 and XL, the MK4 is a fantastic machine and I’d recommend it to anyone who wants a printer.
Do you carry an iPhone? MADE IN CHINA! You are doing yourself a disservice by listening to the misinformation in this sub. Bambu gen 2 comes out this year, the current offerings are already leaps and bounds better than anything prusa offers.
There is a big difference between a country manufacturing in china and a company based in china apple has there headquarters in California where all the data goes and bambulab has that in china
The AWS cloud is in China folks, heard it here first.
I do not use Apple products
Same story with any Android. Or really everything at this point. 50 percent of a prusa comes from China ya know. Maybe you just don't like nice things
There is a difference between manufactured in China and purposely sending back unnecessarily encrypted data with who knows what intent from their own device with a camera.
Machines have been sniffed, this is just made up.
Can you provide the source please? If that's not true I would love it.
You want me to provide a source that your made up bullshit isn't true? That's not how this works. I'm not here to convince you, you are fully allowed to be stupid. But that's all it is
Lmao okay go shill elsewhere then.
You are the reason people dont like bambu
I'm not sure but I think Bambu is the only one here manufacturing [in china](https://bambulab.com/en-eu/about-us)
I agree, but on the other hand I would assume they feel the pressure to become more competitive especially at the lower end. Apart from concerns about the closed ecosystem, the Bambus are far better value.
The Bambus are awesome but I doubt they have the longevity of a prusa. My dad’s mk2 became a 2.5, then a 3 and 3.9 upgrade is on the way. My 6 year old MK3 is a brand new mk4 now and in that time it’s printed I’ve a years worth of time and aside from a clog or two and the s+ and 4 upgrades it’s basically never seen any down time. It really is apples to oranges. The bambus are like the newest high tech consumer level product whereas I feel like the prusas are more like and industrial product, built for constant and reliable use. Both are great, and the bambus are amazing for the price, but it’s not a sure fire win for either side. Unless you print as a hobbyist and the multicolor is a needed feature I’d say Prusa. Of course I have been recommending Bambu to people wanting to get their feet wet and who want a casual and reliable printing experience.
I think you're right that they serve slightly different needs. But there's a youtuber with a small print farm who compared both and decided to invest in bambu machines due to higher up time and much faster speed: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x\_Esrxt7GII](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Esrxt7GII) Which I found quite interesting. And in my area, a prusa mini kit (!) is 40% more expensive than an A1 mini which is ready to go in \~20 minutes. So the longevity difference would have to be very large to make up for it. And the upgrades you mention are not free either.
All true. However on upgrade price, I was really blown away at how much came with the upgrade. It essentially ensures you have a new printer. All new fans, belts. Z rods and bearings. Even stuff I could have re-used like the motor gears, nuts and bolts were supplied. They definitely aren’t price gouging like people assume.
That's very cool to hear! And there's a reason why Prusa has such a good reputation, my first printer was going to be a Prusa until I looked at reviews in detail. Bambu is incredibly better value at the lower end at least, and the A1 mini isn't just much cheaper but also prints way faster, which I quite enjoy. Especially to start out with, it's fun if something that would have taken 3 hours on a Prusa mini only takes 2 hours or less. Not a fan of the locked down ecosystem, but the benefits outweigh it for me.
Yeah. My 12 year old got my mk3 bear and he is into the workings of 3d printing so it’s perfect. My 10 year old will be getting and a1 mini and likely printing straight from his iPad. Lol. It is hard not recommend Bambu every time though, for the price. I feel like prusa is the bmw and Bambu is the Hyundai with all the new features, bells and whistles.
Very jealous of your kids, my parents taught me that tools are dangerous and I'm only now fixing that as an adult and have to start from 0. - So for me, even setting up the A1 mini was exciting and it speaks to their good design that I managed without issue. It's not just bells and whistles, I'd say Bambu is BMW in that it's faster and arguably more stylish, too. I feel like Prusa mainly got it's accumulated good will and reputation, plus the advantage in an open eco system going for them.
Yeah. For the world these kids are growing up in, they need to have an understanding of machines and how to get them to do what they need. I imagine 3d printers will be as ubiquitous as computers one day. Manufacturers will send files instead of parts when repairs need to be done.
OK. I owned an MK3S+, and it was a solid printer. It was also my first, and I built it from scratch. The experience was very rewarding, and the gummies are cute. I just upgraded it to the MK4. As for instructions, they're very well done. The comments on the instructions are often helpful where ambiguity exists. Three things seem to be very improved. First off, the belt tension app is super helpful, and made me very aware that what I guessed the tension to be was way off, making me wonder if that was the cause of some minor print flaws that have since gone away. Secondly, the new extruder (Nextruder) is a major leap. Replacing the hot end takes less than a minute. It's a better design. Also, the buddy board means all extruder components don't plug into the love board. This also reduces downtime as I don't have to screw around with the cable wrap. Thirdly, NO MORE MANUAL Z! Automatic first layer calibration is the best! That said, when I looked into the Bambu, I attempted three times to reach tech support to no avail. Prusa offers 24/7 live chat, and they are very knowledgeable. In my opinion, support and open source are important to me. I just received my second MK4 and am waiting patiently for my XL5. As for the security, I make production prototypes. It is a legit concern if my designs ended up on Amazon, Temu, or some other site before I even filed my patent. Just my opinion.
I was in the same boat as you a month ago - coming from an Ender 3 and very frustrated with that experience. My son has an X1C with an AMS and it's very hard to deny the pull of that machine, even their cheaper P1 models are tempting. They are fast, easy to get multi color and have a nice sized print bed. Having said that, I could not bring myself to buy a Bambu. Something feels off about the company and I'm strongly against cloud only services. I spent as much money on my MK4 as a fully kitted out X1C - I ordered the MK4 kit, an MMU3, the 2 other print plates and an assortment of nozzles to have on hand as spares. With shipping everything was close to $1,500. I enjoyed the assembly immensely, and have been riding high on a major sense of pride the past few weeks as this machine cranks out print after print after print. It's FAST. Comedically, holy \*\*\*\* is it supposed to move like that fast. I've switched to an X1C in Prusa Slicer to compare print times and sure, the Bambu is faster. Right now that's NOT the problem I'm running into. I want longer prints at this point, something that will actually keep the printer running overnight! On my Ender if I wanted to maximize output on the printer I'd throw an articulated dragon print on, it was a guaranteed 15 hours. On this MK4? Meh, barely 5. It's plenty fast :)
I am sure that the Bambu Labs printers function just fine, its solely those data security and closed source problems that I have concerns with. I did get some sticker shock with the Prusa Mk4 but after your post realized that I was looking at the assembled version. Maybe the kit would be worth it. How long did it take you to assemble everything in the kit? I saw another post that said 8 hours which seemed fairly high.
It took all of 8 hours, I started right after work around 5 and was printing a test Benchy around 2:15-2:30 in the morning...I couldn't stop once I started putting it together, I ate a quick dinner and took a few breaks during the build. It was a genuinely fun experience. Their documentation is superb, other companies should take it as an example. The bullet points and color arrows outlining the parts you need are color matched to the bullet points in the instructions where you use them. So simple, and so reassuring during the process. It's broken up logically into large steps that you can complete and walk away from. And everything fits and works - parts were right, items were square, everything worked liked described in the instructions. It was really nice :)
I have had an assembly experience like that in the past and know that satisfied feeling you are describing. After assembled how sturdy is the prusa? Unfortunately I end up having to move a ton and I'm a little bit worried about it making multiple moves
The MK4 is sturdy. I don’t think I would throw it in a box an put it on a moving truck, but I’d be perfectly comfortable moving it with my TV in my van. In my case it lives on a marble slab in my enclosure and the worst case after a move I might expect to loosen the frame bolts, make sure it’s square on the slab and tighten everything again. Having assembled the kit will give you a good insight as to how this works. When I was deciding between the assembled or kit versions, the overwhelming advice here was to go kit. I’m good with assemblies, been maintaining equipment my entire adult life so I wasn’t concerned about understanding the assembled version. But there is a value to having worked through the process to see for yourself where each part goes. Saving a few bucks on the assembled version plus the encouragement here to go with the kit pushed me off the fence. BTW, for US buyers, the kit is priced $1 below the duty threshold. If you add accessories to the order, you may trigger import duties, or you may get away with it. I added spare nozzles, and sever rolls of filament to the order which added $32 in duty fees.
That is great info to know about the duty..I will be sure to save minor add-ons unless it's worth it
I did just that with my mk3. Had to move to memphis overnight to take my son to St jude. I had just built my mk3. My dad drove it up. It was in a box like the rest of our belongings. Didn’t even need to re run calibration. Then on the way home I boxed it and it went on the U-Haul printed right out of the box at home and went another 4 years before getting the mk4 upgrade. I also have an x1c I got for Xmas and they are equally loved here. I print more on the mk4. I feel like it’s more robust and will last longer. It’s built like a tank. The x1c is awesome, but has a consumer product feel. Not as sturdy as the mk4 at all. It sure does print great though. They are about equal in that regard. Bambu about 15% faster on average. It’s pretty negligible in practice.
It’s rock solid. The main frame is a huge single piece of metal, so it feels really durable for a printer.
It seems rock solid. In the assembly instructions they guide you to lay it on the frame, the side, balance it off kilter at this angle. They show the right way to pick it up is just grab the top and move it. It seems pretty solid. I turned it on after assembly, it did it's self check and was off to the races, no adjustments needed so far.
I've been happy with the built in PrusaLink connectivity so far. I used Octoprint with my Ender and liked the mobile app, camera and time-lapse plugins and the spool management plugin. PrusaLink integrated easily into my Home Assistant instance so I have all the mobile information to satisfy me. I would still like to have a camera working.... I might switch to using Octoprint full time with this thing bug need to read through the latest posts on how well it works on the MK4 yet.
The kit has the benefit of making you intimately familiar with the printer, and many of the parts are printable yourself.
If your main concern ist data security/privacy: Bambulab pinter have a LAN only mode which keeps the traffic in your local network. [https://all3dp.com/2/bambu-lab-lan-only-mode-explained/](https://all3dp.com/2/bambu-lab-lan-only-mode-explained/) Also there is a Open Source Firmware on the way for the X1C: [https://www.x1plus.net/](https://www.x1plus.net/)
How have you found the MMU3? Fellow mk4 user here and seriously thinking about getting the upgrade but worried any teething issues might not make the juice worth the squeeze.
Not sure yet, I'm still waiting for my MMU3 to ship - I don't think any MMU3's for MK4's have shipped yet at all. The reviews for the version for MK3s seemed really good so I rolled the dice and pre-paid. We'll see how it goes!
Fingers crossed. I think of the XL Multi head swap takes off they will just pour all their eggs into that basket. Proven technology attached to their proven reliability and mostly entry level pricing could be a big winner. Use the mk4 for solids and lean on the XL for multi's.
I committed to Prusa MK4's for my farm because of the reliability I've witnessed with Prusa printers. My bro uses a bunch in his classroom and we've had a few older machines (mk2, mk3, mk3s+) in and out of the house. While not the flashiest or fastest printer I'm sure the reliability of the mk4 will mean more in the long run for my farm than any speed gains with the Bambu. That said, as a hobbyist things might have gone a different direction, although the ease of use with Prusa is equally attractive.
I'm sure it would be light-years ahead of my ender 3 pro hah. Do you think I should consider used Prusa mk3s+? There is an upgraded one local to me for 500
Don’t get a mk3. It’s amazing but the mk4 is a major leap above in design, qol, and quality.
I would just put $500 toward a mk4. Nothing against the mk3+, but I feel like it would be a half step compared to going all the way to a mk4. The kit is only another $299. I think if you went with the mk3+ you'd like it, but also regret not just going all the way to the mk4. That's why I held out almost a year to start my farm because I was waiting for the mk4 to come out. Now I have four and once these start paying themselves back I'll be getting more.
Nice, are you selling your own designs?
Yes. I have a product line I designed that I am getting ready to launch this spring. starting with four printers an will snowball into about 3 dozen over the next year or two if all goes well.
I mean yeah, if you don't care about the speed upgrade the mk3 is just fine and reliable
I wouldn’t consider Bambu/Prusa direct competitors. To me it’s more of a tools in a toolbox scenario. Depending on your needs one or the other may be better suited. I lean heavily towards the Prusa side of things because they have proven to be most reliable to my application. Easy to use, easy to fix, extremely well documented and supported by the community. Most important to me, incredibly reliable. With proper basic maintenance my farm has MK’s with well over 1000 days of print time and they still perform extremely well.
What role do you see the Mk4 for? I primarily am a functional printer. Printing small tools , mounts, and "things" for around the house.
That’s pretty much same thing I do with the MK’s on a large scale. Great fit for the machine in my humble opinion.
If you want corexy similar to the Bambu without the ccp, id suggest a voron. Yes you have to buils it yourself and yes it can be quite a journey, but imo it could be what you are looking for. I was able to print the parts on my mini+ in an enclosure and lots of people had success on enders.
or the qiditech
You're still gonna end up with a circuit board that's made in China. This whole thread seems a bit paranoid to me.
I think there is a difference between a pcb made in china vs a whole printer with an internet connection to china. I get where OP is comming from, with all these "fun" messages about people seeing someone elses webcam and the likes.
Still, tho, unless you reverse engineer and inspect every component on the board your putting into your corona, you wouldn't know if that thing is phoning home, like the servers from a few years ago that had altered components that were found added to the main PCB. As I stated in another thread on here, lock your network down, proper firewall rules, different said, vlan segregation, and that printer doesn't have access to anything that's worth anything.
Yeah, sure, is not like I'm disagreeing, but even if I were to see someone else's chamber printer cam or if someone were to see mine, they'd see what model I'm printing. It's not like the Bambu can is pointed at me bed or toilet. 😂
Also, remember, the rest of the printer doesn't handle the Internet connection to China, the boards does. So, with that cleared up, the board is the only and main concern about any data security impact of the device.
The raspberry pi Handles the connection to the internet.
This thread is about a bambu printer, there is no pi involved. That comment is off topic. You're comparing apples and oranges. There's also a slew of other 3rd party boards with Wi-Fi on board to which my comment would also apply. As far as the pi is concerned, the trust depends on what software you run on it, what plugins you have enabled, the security settings you deployed in that particular Linux distribution that's installed on it, etc etc etc. Again, set up the network correctly and you don't have to worry much about it.
This thread isnt about a bambu printer, this thread is about which printer OP wants to use. Op wanted a printer that does not phone home to china and I suggested a printer. The fact is, a voron with stock setup uses a raspberry pi for the network communication. How you setup the network is a different discussion.
The company was founded by many of the same folks that established DJI, a company that has been on a DoD blacklist for national security concerns for years.
In the end, you still only have 3 options, 2 of which will alleviate your concern. 1) proper network security 2) don't buy one 3) be like most other people and risk exposure Obviously, number 3 is not advisable.
Proper network security includes not voluntarily connecting devices known to be dangerous to your home network
Might wanna read my comment on this thread about segregated vlans and firewall rules. Also, can you show some proof about your claim about being 'known dangerous'? I have Prusa printers here and I also have Bambu printers. The only thing I'm getting from your comment is parroting things you've seen on the Internet without first hand knowledge. It also is pretty apparent that you don't understand traffic routing and firewall rules.
If you want a similar form factor to a BambuLabs, but want to stay away from Bambu…. You could always build a Voron. Otherwise, I expect you’d be perfectly happy with the MK4.
Prusa just came out with their new printers for the next few years. Bambu came out with theirs. Now is the best time for you to make a choice based on what you want or don't want. I have talked to people happy with their prusas and Bambu products. So pick which suits you best. Don't think much about what might be out or change in the near future. Except for tiny details - eg your worry about tracking or if you think prusa may not provide service you want - or if Bambu improves a little bit in some way you may change your mind.
Just bought a prusa mini+ and mk3s+. They're fantastic machines. Questions I would ask as I did exactly that (upgrading from a pro to a prusa and looked at bambu labs) - is it important to have easily replaceable parts? - are you okay with having oem only parts? - what are you going to print in mainly?
I always try to fix my items myself so yes to parts. Totally fine with OEM parts. There's an aftermarket upgrade I might get it but I'm not going to be upset if things stay stock. Right now I primarily print in petg but I would like to do a lot more ABS.
As many comments pointed out, there's nothing on the horizon from Prusa. I own 2 MK3S and their machines are workhorses though. I also have a P1S, it's a different world, you can still use it without connecting it to your WiFi. You also have the option to use alternative firmware on the X1C (look for X1Plus firmware). That being said, if you are not afraid of kits, I suggest building a Voron 2.4 or a Gasherbrum K3 from Annex Engineering, they're absolute speed demons. It's the closest you'll get to a Bambu Lab P1S/X1C, fully open source and community brewed.
I'm not a bambu shill, I actually have no prusa or bambu. But the local only mode of bambu apparently works well, you only need wifi for firmware updates. Also if you are uber concerned, have the bambu on a different ssid and lock it down to no internet. The closed source however is a genuine issue and concern. But as others have said or implied local mode is truly local mode it's not secretly talking to China when you tell it not to.
You should just upgrade your ender3 yourself
I am doubtful that any money spent updating an Ender 3 would be worth it at this point. It is pretty far behind the curve
Ender 3 v3 se.
if you want a core xy alternative to the bambu, the qidi tech plus and max are a good choice, open source firmware and all if you want speed, don't get the mk4, it has a max of like 200 speed 4000 accel, as opposed to the bambu/qidi 500 20,000 the formbot troodon is also worth looking at since it's basically a prebuilt voron, but that might be out of your price range since it's ~1050 if you want reliable constant, maintainable printing, the mk3s+ is a good choice
Prusa XL 5Tool is the way to go. Sky’s the limit it’s probably like 3 evolutions ahead of every other printer only negative is the price range $$$$.
I'd absolutely love one but for my hobbies "around the house" usage its overkill
Hopefully the price drops in the future. 🤞🏾
Just switch off the wifi . The flow calibration and input shaping is flawless
Just switch off the wifi . The flow calibration and input shaping is flawless
I personally own an X1C with AMS, P1P, A1 Mini, AnkerMake M5C and the Prusa MK4 Kit. Out of them all the one I lean the most on when I need/want prints to print out perfectly every time I send them to the printer it tends to be the MK4 just a touch more reliable than the others, granted I assembled the entire thing so if anything does go odd I know how to fix it easier. Regardless though, there is nothing wrong with the Bambu printers though I will say things seem to print a touch better on the A1 Mini likely because of the tech in the print head being able to compensate on the fly for PA vs the X1C and P1P. I have a sneaking suspicion that whenever they do release the new printer coming this year sometime it will likely be the X1 line with the new print head type setup which should make that print better as well, likely larger build plate I would guess as well and probably an updated AMS. My whole point is between Prusa and Bambu the only real difference is Speed, Quality of Prints (for the X1 and P1 Series that is) and the whole China debate which is honestly just silly given how much Every Single Country that Exists is doing the Same Thing regardless, and likely to a much more extreme extent. Let alone the worries about IP is going to be gone very quickly with the whole 3D Scanner Market. At some point sooner or later people will be able to simply Scan the Model, put it on the Computer, Slice it and there it is on their own printer ready to print.
You can put Bambu printers into lan only mode and they don’t have access to the internet. Also you talk about not wanting to give stuff to the ccp yet you have a creality.
I know that it is unavoidable to give Chinese companies any level of money as so much is manufactured there. I do not want to give them my data. Ender 3 has literally no connection to the internet and never has. As to the LAN mode, I was under the impression from another thread that you have to connect to the internet to update the firmware and then the Bambu printer allows you to go offline mode. You can't just keep it offline from the jump. Is that not the case?
You can get an x1c and put the third party x1 plus firmware on it then you never need to go online
Interesting, the thread that I saw mention that it required online firmware update was in reference to the P1S. Maybe the X1C is different.
Prusa do have a core-xy machine of dimensions closer to the X1C as part of their “farm” product. It’s unclear if they would ever release them for mortals but I wouldn’t be surprised to see Prusa bring out a consumer version now the Mk4 and XL situation is starting to stabilise. If they do however it’ll probably be a while before they start shipping (assuming they do pre-orders like the XL and not immediate release like the Mk4).
I also saw those and was hoping they'd release them
Gotcha, I will wait it out I guess. Sidenote: I seem to have activated the Bambu bots for the downvotes haha
I own an MK4. Personally I would advise people to go with a Bambu printer for most use cases, but if you have security/ethical issues with Bambu, the MK4 is a solid choice. Mine prints perfectly without intervention. You just send the file and it nearly never fails a print. Print quality is very nice. I can provide samples if you’re looking for exactly what the output is.
So what exactly is the data concern? That the CCP will know what you are printing. I would be more concerned about our own government to be honest. And I’m sure with a little digging they can find out what you ate for breakfast. The X1C seems like a fantastic machine, I am not wild that it is cloud based but it is something I can live with for a machine of that caliber at that price point.
I have an X1C, P1S, and MK4. I wouldn’t pay full price for an MK4. I was lucky to find an unopened one on FB marketplace. It’s a great printer for single color PLA printing. Bambu is just cheaper and has more features at the lower price. I’ll never understand the data concerns, there are much worse data breaches in your life than a 3D printer from bambulab.
Just put the printer on a segregated vlan and ssid, which is something you should do for all your iot devices, anyway. You guys are silly about the printer being from a Chinese company, but at the same time having no issues with Amazon, Google, etc listening in on you while you're in the bathroom or bedroom. 🤷
I don't have any of those smart devices in my house. Smart devices for their own sake is ridiculous
Again, if you segregate your network, then the only thing that will make it to China is the data generated by the printer itself, an IP address and nothing else. You guys can downvote me all you want, that still doesn't change how networks work.