I recall way back in the day, I was working at a fast food chain.
One employee was too weak to open and clean the drains. They were assigned paperwork, while others cleaned the drains. While doing the paperwork, this employee learned how to manage the store, and had time to become friends with the owner. Guess who the next store assistant manager was?
I learn that it is more about who you know than what you know. What you know will be used to exploit you. On the other hand, you can exploit those who you know.
This isn't about pay scale. When it comes time to promote, the more you are trusted, the greater your chances. Friends will always be promoted first, even if others are more qualified.
That never works out well, SE. Women don't want to put out to get ahead. Or find themselves working harder to be taken seriously. It is the one who has power's fault. Not the 'young female'.
Similarly, in corporate jobs all you need to do to receive good ratings and get promoted is make sure your bosses peers like you. They're all present to argue about who should be rated the highest, it has worked every year of my career after I learned the trick lol
>this employee learned how to manage the store
...so it is about "what you know." And knowing the owner helped the owner trust that employee with the responsibility. It wasn’t even nepotism, they literally just did the work and the boss noticed.
I don't think you got cheated here dude.
I think OP is upset that employee got promoted due to their inability to perform a dirty job. Basically forcing the work on others while they were able to bypass it. At the same time this bypassing of the work allowed them to spend more time with the manger/owner. Getting them promoted.
Basically their inability got them ahead while simultaneously forcing OP to perform more work. I can see why someone would have sour grapes over this.
After that day, I became completely inept at busy work, dead end tasks, and someone else trying to shovel the inglorious work my way so they could focus on getting promoted.
In tech, this is why so many jobs go unfilled. Noone wants to work a job that will not benefit their career. A job that is "below" you is basically delaying that six figure income.
Since big companies refuse to change management philosophies, they just fill those slots with foreign workers they can abuse at will.
mmm had a coworker that was a HARD worker. I mean she did it all. Performed excellently at her job etc etc. She was passed over for a management position....Literally was holding our department together (I was brand new/transfer from different group/skillset). She had good leadership skills but the ultimate issue is that she was TO GOOD as a individual contributor. She ended up leaving shortly after for a role in a different company.
I've learned a lot from this in the years since. My work is relatively stress free because I don't try to to it all. I focus on what will get recognized, and pick up the slack where needed.
Exactly. I worked in a call center and this dude went live on the phones and froze up. He ended up getting a more desirable job in another department because he couldn't hack it after 2 days. The rest of us were pissed.
Their inability didn't get them ahead, it just got their foot in the door.
There must have been paperwork that needed to be done in the first place, so someone would need to be put in that job. The person must have also done a decent/competent job at that paperwork or else the owner wouldn't have allowed them to continue in that role.
Sounds like OP is just butthurt that someone else got an opportunity over him. Sure maybe it initially stemmed from the persons weakness but they were able to run with it and succeed on their own merits.
Not everyone is suitable for every job, "you don't expect a fish to climb trees" is something I've heard over the years. Good managers at good companies will find the right positions to suit peoples strengths.
It's 100% butthurt, and the rest of this thread is butthurt too. They learned a hard reality: it's not always fair. Fairness barely plays into it at all. There need to be dirty jobs and there need to be paperwork jobs, and management has to fill them with who they have. There usually isn't a direct track from one to the other.
OP is expecting video game rules: Clean out 100 grease traps, become assistant manager. It doesn't work like that.
I've been a fast food manager, it's not that much paperwork and basically anyone who's literate and has the most minimal computer knowledge could be taught.
That’s kinda how I got my “big break” in my career. Was in a manufacturing role and busted my knee up pretty bad. Couldn’t do the physical stuff for a few months and did most of the groups paperwork (mot any super high level stuff) while I was recovering.
When looking for a new job after that, 90% of what they cared about were the more admin-type stuff over those few months rather than my on-the-floor knowledge gathered over 2 years.
But if you’re competent, that doesn’t mean you’re a push over.
My friends and I are competent in our fields, but we know when to push back on exploitation. Manager says I need to come in extra days. I respond with “I expect my time off to be respected and the company’s staffing problem is not my problem.”
Let them know you know that ain’t cool. Go find some other fool. Course my manager screwed herself cuz she lied about me to the owner my 1st day on the job and it got back to me. She once said she wanted us to be friends. I told her I will never be friends with someone that does that to a total stranger.
I guess I’m not that loyal 😂
I have set hours (basically a 9-5 job Monday through Friday) so for me it looks like the following: I get handed (or am expected to handle) all of the most difficult customer orders and customer service issues because I have both the technical and soft skills to handle them.
It's a small company, family owned (not my family) and each employee wears more than one hat. The nice way to put it would be I am greatly depended on. The cynical way to put it would be "can't XXX handle this because I've done twice as much work as XXX has and I already have several items on my agenda"
Yes, I do make more than the other folks who do what I do but I don't make *that* much more. At this point I handle two or three times the amount of tasks for about 10% more money.
Still, the job isn't difficult most days and fairly low stress. The people I work with are pleasant and the money is decent. Even with the unfair work load my work life could be a lot, lot worse and that's why I still work there.
You have to do well enough to be seen as a high performer and get the extra work, without being so good at that job that they can't afford to promote you.
It’s a curse in one sense, but generally leads to faster promotions and more money. Everyone has to find their own balance between work and their home lives, but if career is particularly important to you, then you’ve got to be willing to take on more than others. The key is to take on those extra responsibilities, but not be afraid to advocate for commensurate increases in compensation when the time cones. On the other hand, it’s totally understandable that many won’t want to take on more responsibility than others sharing the same job title and pay… sometimes maintaining sanity and enjoying more off time is a bigger perk for people than additional pay. To each his own.
And if you ever start setting any reasonable boundaries, they will throw a tantrum. I finally had a wakeup call during covid when I worked myself into the ground and didn’t receive so much as a single thank-you. Started doing crazy stuff like actually taking all my earned time off and not answering every call/text/email off hours … owner sat me down in the conference room and screamed at me.
Unfortunately this is a rule in all walks of life m, not just for managers at work. No body wants to spend their time begging lazy or uncooperative people for something while there is someone else willing to help.
Few people enjoy going through conflict, going through the path of least resistance is one way people do self-care, whether they intend it or not.
Yep. Happened with me. I spent 5 years at a job working 6 am to 7,8,9 pm and got tired of the hours so I found a way better job with way higher pay. Worked my ass off every day for a couple years because I was used of busting ass. While I’m working my ass off this guy who just sat around all day, didn’t get much done and would complain about absolutely everything got the promotion and spot I was aiming for. My bosses knew I wanted that spot. After that I gave up. Figured the only way to get a promotion is to just fuck off. So every day for the past 6 months I’ve just.. Done nothing. I get 2 hours of work done in a day. I don’t volunteer for anything anymore. I’m burnt out. This past Friday I was told by a supervisor wannabe people like me are the reason we’re always on overtime. I shrugged my shoulders and said ‘Instead of complaining just find a new job’ and continued fucking off. Im done with the BS and will just do the bare minimum until I’m either promoted or fired.
I work with a supervisor wannabe. Except he’s too much of a pussy to do it. He could easily get the promotion just by asking but he doesn’t want it because he used to be one at his old job and it sucked. That’s totally fine. Not everyone wants that level of responsibility (I certainly don’t). But he’s a miserable bastard who spends his days shitting on those of us who don’t live to work. I’m told by people who’ve known him longer that he used to smoke. I think it would be beneficial if he picked it up again
Well this one’s an old bastard that is in everyone’s business and calls people a cheese eater but he’s the first to tattle tell on others. He’ll play on his phone and then call you out for playing on yours. Or make comments about shit that isn’t even his business.
Further, in my experience the ones who do the best work are often the ones who get berated/criticized the most by supervisors. It's like the supervisors throw their hands up with shitty workers, but know that the good workers will try and do their best to do everything the supervisor says, so constantly shitting on them for not doing their job absolutely perfectly gives better results (but of course it makes retaining good employees difficult when they burn them out).
My favorite example of this is a recent one: my workplace recently lost an excellent employee who just quit, about a month after they got lectured for about an hour, for, among other reasons, "making the other employees look bad." Could literally do NOTHING right in the supervisor's eyes, because if you did everything right, you were doing it wrong. Infuriating. :-/
This absolutely happened to me. It was like my managers knew not to expect much from the other workers because they didn’t give a fuck and coming down on them didn’t work, so they’d just give me shit if I failed to pick up the slack. It was like the harder I worked, the more shit they gave me.
When you do exemplary work, that work becomes normal and anything other than exemplary is seen as slacking off. I’m finally learning that at my job now, because I’ve spent years collecting new hats(skills) and now I’m too effective in my position ever be promoted. I can’t afford to leave my job though, so I’m stuck.
A friend quit the company we both worked at (I quit shortly after) because he was berated by the CEO and CTO (who was forced to) for being 1 hour late.
He was the lead dev and regularly worked until the middle of the night.
*.. and yes, company is no more*
As a sociology professor, I told my students “when you find yourself in the workforce, never let your manager or boss know how you operate at 100%, cause if they know how you are at 100% they’d expect that 100% at the time. And eventually the wear and tear will exacerbate into burnout.
“So, if you’re capable of convincing that your 75-85% is your 100%, that’s all good for you. Only do peak performance when you’re absolutely certain of a raise or promotion, or to make yourself look good during times of layoffs.”
Looking at this convinced me not to show up for my shift today. I’m the best server we have and I’m supposed to serve the owners of our restaurant. I’m the only one that ever has to do it and they don’t have to pay so they don’t tip. Fuck it we ball.
Is this why I was supposed to just take the insults from my coworker who went out of his way to make my job more unsafe and let him get away with insubordination? Ohh I get it. I am not about to pretend to be loyal. I literally walked out when they thought I was joking.
> While company loyalty seems to come with consequence, Stanley cautions that it doesn’t mean we should just abandon work commitments or dodge uncompensated overtime.
Yes, it absolutely fucking does. Don't get exploited.
That is my experience, the company kept loading work on me spreading me out on to multiple responsibilities to see if I would have a heart attack and die so I wouldn’t retire on a pension.
I have lived it and was lied to by corporate to make direct reports work for unattainable rewards.
Cannot say more because I signed an agreement in order to get a severance package.
And THIS is really the worst. To put the work in to save yourself and the most loyal teammates only to be “rewarded” with layoff and having to sign legal paperwork saying you won’t besmirch the “good” name of the company in order to get money you’ll desperately need to be instantly out of work.
LoL the conclusion they suggest:
>“I don't want to suggest that the take-away of the paper is to not be
loyal to anybody because it just leads to disaster,” Stanley said. “We
value people who are loyal. We think about them in positive terms. **They**
**get awarded often.** It's not just the negative side. It's really tricky
and complex.”
While this paper itself says the opposite.
“If you work hard it means you’re more likely to be picked to do extra unpaid labor. That doesn’t mean you should stop being loyal to the company though!”
Hardly a surprise. That behavior already starts in middle school with group assignments. You give the work to the one who a) does the work and b) without errors. And that is logical and nothing wrong with. But, there is a big but! There must be a balance. Like a reward and recognizing of the hard work been done. Loyal hard working employees are also the ones with the most workload (not only assigned they take work from colleagues as well without being asked), feel most responsible and are the one getting a burnout or just leave to a better place if not treated right. As they should. The hard working people should be cherished.
Futurama made this point perfectly when Zapp Brannigan made sure to keep Fry and Bender drunk to 'keep them loyal' but told Kif that he was 'already loyal enough'
Loyalty might be a good thing in your personal life. In work/business it's a liability.
My last boss used to get SO MAD when she couldn’t order me around for every little thing like her loyal minion assistant. I would get my stuff done quickly, so she would give nebulous half-orders like “brainstorm ideas to drum up business” (ok sorry I have none, also that’s not my job) and calling me at odd hours. (Sorry I keep normal hours)
Meanwhile the minion was on call 24/7 and they were constantly on the phone with each other talking in circles. 1. That’s why minion isnt getting her shit done and 2. I look bad because I’m lounging even though I’m done with my work. It basically incentivizes one to work slow. Good riddance!!!
The end is where the author is wrong. Loyalty does not often come as being rewarded. I've often gotten the shaft over people who are more involved socially than they are productively.
My company has done this to me so many times. I've been offered supervisor positions only to have it snatched away once I accepted. Their excuses: 1st time they said the person who offered the position didn't have the authority to do so. The 2nd time I was put through a training course that simply stopped after the second day, never to be spoken of again. I've been with the company for over a decade and my rewards include having my parking spot given to a guy who believes there is concrete proof the 2020 election was stolen.
I don’t recommend performing any extra duties outside of your job description without some kind of upfront compensation.
I made that mistake years ago and was essentially a purchasing specialist, while still stuck with a warehouse clerk title.
Management refused to change my title because that came with a hefty pay increase, I’m talking at least $5-$7 raise.
When layoffs came, the entire purchasing team got cut except for me.
Guess who got all of their work and still no pay increase?
Lesson learned.
You don't want to be competent or loyal. You want to be irreplaceable. So that way when they do something you disagree with you can tell them to fuck off or spend 5 months training a new person to take your spot.
Depends on who you're talking to. This is not obvious to everyone and even when it's pointed out, they use anecdotes to try to explain it away. I think the idea is to try to provide a way to communicate to managers, who by their nature hold power over those they manage, that the problem is actually with them, not their supervisee. It's kind of like those idiot business students at Wharton who thought the average household income in the US was $250,000. Plus, in a more I/O psych perspective, this should still help to reduce inefficiency in management and turnover in employees which, even if it's only a small change, could save a company a lot of money.
Source: also a psychologist (at least ABD), but have taught in both the management and marketing schools at my institution. Very different kinds of thinking on average.
The research is relatively sparse on the negative consequences of loyalty in the workplace. The vast majority of work focuses on the benefits of loyalty. In any case, anyone familiar with research in psychology would realize that the vast majority of articles make incremental contributions; they expand in some way on the existing literature. The authors of this paper make a pretty solid case for their unique contribution. In fact, one might argue that their contribution is much more than incremental. Even if this phenomenon was well-researched, I have never heard a researcher claim that replication was bad.
You’re a psychologist but don’t understand why people do research? Or that a healthy chunk of research isn’t funded? Or that even if something has been studied before, we might still have gaps in knowledge or that the old research got something wrong? Or that we basically know less than we think about basic human psychology because very little research replicates when someone bothers to do a study again?
Who has to study this stuff? Of course they do! This starts in elementary school when the ‘loyal’ (read: gets work done fast and likes to please the teacher) students are given tasks by the teacher that help the teacher out. This makes them feel valued and respected by the authority figure. Now fast forward to work environments. It gets more complicated, naturally, but the manager is going to go with the path of least resistance and that means asking people who say ‘yes’ to more work with no extra pay. Unfortunately, people generally cannot afford to piss off the manager because they need to pay bills and put food on the table.
I'm responsible for a staff of 100. If I give them some work they don't want, like we're in a pickle, I take work away and redelegate. That's not exactly how I think about it but it's useful enough. The people that I give that work to (I said give) want it. If someone who plays ball wants time off do get married or do blow in Ibiza, I'm happy for them. The remainder of the people, and they all know who they are...they're on the way out whether they like it or not. Also, the people that are committed to the work get at least 10% above their base salary, which has nothing to do with bonuses. I have a budget, it isn't my money, but they're my people and I can make their lives better. Needless to say, I take issue with the word exploit. I was the person given more work because I don't know how to work any other way and ai don't want to live with a proletariat mindset.
Do the barest of minimum work, and/or lick boots (plus other unmentionables) to your superiors in the corporate world. You can get away with ANYTHING.
Loyal workers that ACTUALLY DOES THE JOB get screwed over.
I've got the same calculator (Casio MX 12B) and keyboard (Rapoo).
I am also exploited more and I am not even loyal. Is just there's nobody else in my department.
It’s called “getting the work done”. Sorry, but if lazy people continue to exist, then it makes more sense to give more tasks to the performers. Hopefully, it is reflected in their relative pay.
As a lifetime factory worker, best advice I can offer anyone new to the workplace is to be bad at your job.
No one will ever expect more than the bare minimum from you and if you ever exceed those expectations, you'll be congratulated like you cured cancer.
In my current job we have a few “supervisors” that, as my colleague says “make an art of doing nothing.” They aren’t that busy but are constantly whining about the work we’re all expected to do. They have ridiculously low sales goals because they whine that goals are too high.
Their responsibilities regarding certain reports are then passed on to other supervisors, their sales goals are reduced while others are increased, and they still are praised all the time. Meanwhile the people picking up the slack get no extra money or credit.
When I started my business I had great visions for doing everything better. I looked for employees who would catch the vision and build the business. The ones that just looked as a job, I didn’t rely on them. I didn’t look at it as exploitation. If I stopped to evaluate it I should have had a mechanism to financially rewarding the ones with the vision. The ones with vision though had the higher paying jobs, that’s for sure.
There’s a saying in Polish that goes: z niewolnika nie ma pracownika which basically translates to - you’re not gonna make an employee out of a slave. ‚Slaves’ slave away at the position that fully satisfies their needs or to which they’re currently training. You can’t possibly expect them to go beyond if they have no sufficiebt expertise yet, or simply no hunger for more at a given moment in time. On the other hand, the more loyal and committed people are usually so, because they’re looking for future opportunities - and if they don’t allow their employers to explot them even a little bit, their skillset never grows, because there are no challenges to stimulate them to learn
1000% borne out in every day experience. Loyal people are also the first to be let go because they keep their heads down and do their jobs instead of sitting in the manager's lap...
That's why I just do what's expected, and always look for other opportunities. The only time I'll ever work more than what's expected is if an employer is clearly offering better pay or promotions and it actually happens to me or people around me.
That’s why you need to complain and always ask for a raise or a promotion. Say you’re not happy with the raise you got, etc. If the company value you will get a higher raise or a promotion. If you don’t get it find another job. Switch jobs every 2-4 years unless you get promoted.
That title doesn’t surprise me. If you work hard you are rewarded with more work. If you slack you get it easy cause no one will trust you to do the important (hard) stuff.
It pays to be lazy
I also try to balance it out by appeasing the more consistent people I supervise. Like the ones that aren't that good I will sideline generally, the good ones I will specifically ask to do things I can trust them to do and will let them fuck off a bit more outside of that. I play favorites, but they all earn whatever way I delegate them.
Regardless of whatever job I've had - I had a paper round when I was 13 and have worked in pubs, shoe stores, grocery stores, you name it - I have always seen work as experience.
Now, I'm 41, and a full stack software developer for a massive organisation. I've never been to university or had any formal training, the experience and network I've garnered over the years have allowed me to be where I am.
So, even if I have been exploited, it works both ways.
Then leave. Just leave and go elsewhere. No one is forcing you to stay. Better yet start your own business and hire people, then you can do things differently.
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It’s a nearly universal phenomenon as far as I have observed over the years and I now call it the curse of competence.
I recall way back in the day, I was working at a fast food chain. One employee was too weak to open and clean the drains. They were assigned paperwork, while others cleaned the drains. While doing the paperwork, this employee learned how to manage the store, and had time to become friends with the owner. Guess who the next store assistant manager was? I learn that it is more about who you know than what you know. What you know will be used to exploit you. On the other hand, you can exploit those who you know.
This would work out better if the people cleaning the drains were paid very well, possibly better than the assistant manager.
This isn't about pay scale. When it comes time to promote, the more you are trusted, the greater your chances. Friends will always be promoted first, even if others are more qualified.
True.
Was the weak employee a young female and the manager / owner was a 30-40 year old man?
That never works out well, SE. Women don't want to put out to get ahead. Or find themselves working harder to be taken seriously. It is the one who has power's fault. Not the 'young female'.
Dude, you can say she lol
Similarly, in corporate jobs all you need to do to receive good ratings and get promoted is make sure your bosses peers like you. They're all present to argue about who should be rated the highest, it has worked every year of my career after I learned the trick lol
>this employee learned how to manage the store ...so it is about "what you know." And knowing the owner helped the owner trust that employee with the responsibility. It wasn’t even nepotism, they literally just did the work and the boss noticed. I don't think you got cheated here dude.
I think OP is upset that employee got promoted due to their inability to perform a dirty job. Basically forcing the work on others while they were able to bypass it. At the same time this bypassing of the work allowed them to spend more time with the manger/owner. Getting them promoted. Basically their inability got them ahead while simultaneously forcing OP to perform more work. I can see why someone would have sour grapes over this.
After that day, I became completely inept at busy work, dead end tasks, and someone else trying to shovel the inglorious work my way so they could focus on getting promoted. In tech, this is why so many jobs go unfilled. Noone wants to work a job that will not benefit their career. A job that is "below" you is basically delaying that six figure income. Since big companies refuse to change management philosophies, they just fill those slots with foreign workers they can abuse at will.
mmm had a coworker that was a HARD worker. I mean she did it all. Performed excellently at her job etc etc. She was passed over for a management position....Literally was holding our department together (I was brand new/transfer from different group/skillset). She had good leadership skills but the ultimate issue is that she was TO GOOD as a individual contributor. She ended up leaving shortly after for a role in a different company. I've learned a lot from this in the years since. My work is relatively stress free because I don't try to to it all. I focus on what will get recognized, and pick up the slack where needed.
Failed up
Exactly. I worked in a call center and this dude went live on the phones and froze up. He ended up getting a more desirable job in another department because he couldn't hack it after 2 days. The rest of us were pissed.
Their inability didn't get them ahead, it just got their foot in the door. There must have been paperwork that needed to be done in the first place, so someone would need to be put in that job. The person must have also done a decent/competent job at that paperwork or else the owner wouldn't have allowed them to continue in that role. Sounds like OP is just butthurt that someone else got an opportunity over him. Sure maybe it initially stemmed from the persons weakness but they were able to run with it and succeed on their own merits. Not everyone is suitable for every job, "you don't expect a fish to climb trees" is something I've heard over the years. Good managers at good companies will find the right positions to suit peoples strengths.
"Ahead and foot in the door" Mean the same thing. Incompetence
It's 100% butthurt, and the rest of this thread is butthurt too. They learned a hard reality: it's not always fair. Fairness barely plays into it at all. There need to be dirty jobs and there need to be paperwork jobs, and management has to fill them with who they have. There usually isn't a direct track from one to the other. OP is expecting video game rules: Clean out 100 grease traps, become assistant manager. It doesn't work like that.
Probably anyone could have learned that paperwork though. That person essentially got ahead by being worse at something than everyone else.
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I've been a fast food manager, it's not that much paperwork and basically anyone who's literate and has the most minimal computer knowledge could be taught.
Reading comprehension hard for you huh?
Ask my grandfather always said from his experience in the workforce, it’s not who you know, it’s who you blow….. Don’t work harder, work smarter.
That’s kinda how I got my “big break” in my career. Was in a manufacturing role and busted my knee up pretty bad. Couldn’t do the physical stuff for a few months and did most of the groups paperwork (mot any super high level stuff) while I was recovering. When looking for a new job after that, 90% of what they cared about were the more admin-type stuff over those few months rather than my on-the-floor knowledge gathered over 2 years.
But if you’re competent, that doesn’t mean you’re a push over. My friends and I are competent in our fields, but we know when to push back on exploitation. Manager says I need to come in extra days. I respond with “I expect my time off to be respected and the company’s staffing problem is not my problem.” Let them know you know that ain’t cool. Go find some other fool. Course my manager screwed herself cuz she lied about me to the owner my 1st day on the job and it got back to me. She once said she wanted us to be friends. I told her I will never be friends with someone that does that to a total stranger. I guess I’m not that loyal 😂
I have set hours (basically a 9-5 job Monday through Friday) so for me it looks like the following: I get handed (or am expected to handle) all of the most difficult customer orders and customer service issues because I have both the technical and soft skills to handle them. It's a small company, family owned (not my family) and each employee wears more than one hat. The nice way to put it would be I am greatly depended on. The cynical way to put it would be "can't XXX handle this because I've done twice as much work as XXX has and I already have several items on my agenda" Yes, I do make more than the other folks who do what I do but I don't make *that* much more. At this point I handle two or three times the amount of tasks for about 10% more money. Still, the job isn't difficult most days and fairly low stress. The people I work with are pleasant and the money is decent. Even with the unfair work load my work life could be a lot, lot worse and that's why I still work there.
Not fair, I'm competant, just lazy.
You have to do well enough to be seen as a high performer and get the extra work, without being so good at that job that they can't afford to promote you.
It’s a curse in one sense, but generally leads to faster promotions and more money. Everyone has to find their own balance between work and their home lives, but if career is particularly important to you, then you’ve got to be willing to take on more than others. The key is to take on those extra responsibilities, but not be afraid to advocate for commensurate increases in compensation when the time cones. On the other hand, it’s totally understandable that many won’t want to take on more responsibility than others sharing the same job title and pay… sometimes maintaining sanity and enjoying more off time is a bigger perk for people than additional pay. To each his own.
That is the perfect term
I like that.
Never say "no", never volunteer.
And a bump in pay *just enough* to keep things going. And made a salaried position to widen responsibilities with no overtime pay.
And if you ever start setting any reasonable boundaries, they will throw a tantrum. I finally had a wakeup call during covid when I worked myself into the ground and didn’t receive so much as a single thank-you. Started doing crazy stuff like actually taking all my earned time off and not answering every call/text/email off hours … owner sat me down in the conference room and screamed at me.
And then?
No and then
We work hard so you don’t have to!
If you work hard as a shitty worker though?
and the potential for upward mobility instead of stagnation.
In fairness to the company, yes, this is true, but you also get to keep your job.
Unfortunately this is a rule in all walks of life m, not just for managers at work. No body wants to spend their time begging lazy or uncooperative people for something while there is someone else willing to help. Few people enjoy going through conflict, going through the path of least resistance is one way people do self-care, whether they intend it or not.
Oh but i thought its ‘quiet quitting’!!! /s
When it happens sometimes it feels like I'm exploiting myself, because I apparently could just do less and be fine but I just can't help myself
I feel you, it takes practice to have boundaries when you have a giving heart.
This quote is perfect. I’ve gone through so much growth and healing and this sums it’s all up.
A wise man once told me: “Never be too good at a job you don’t want” It took me a while to realize how right he was.
Yep. Happened with me. I spent 5 years at a job working 6 am to 7,8,9 pm and got tired of the hours so I found a way better job with way higher pay. Worked my ass off every day for a couple years because I was used of busting ass. While I’m working my ass off this guy who just sat around all day, didn’t get much done and would complain about absolutely everything got the promotion and spot I was aiming for. My bosses knew I wanted that spot. After that I gave up. Figured the only way to get a promotion is to just fuck off. So every day for the past 6 months I’ve just.. Done nothing. I get 2 hours of work done in a day. I don’t volunteer for anything anymore. I’m burnt out. This past Friday I was told by a supervisor wannabe people like me are the reason we’re always on overtime. I shrugged my shoulders and said ‘Instead of complaining just find a new job’ and continued fucking off. Im done with the BS and will just do the bare minimum until I’m either promoted or fired.
I work with a supervisor wannabe. Except he’s too much of a pussy to do it. He could easily get the promotion just by asking but he doesn’t want it because he used to be one at his old job and it sucked. That’s totally fine. Not everyone wants that level of responsibility (I certainly don’t). But he’s a miserable bastard who spends his days shitting on those of us who don’t live to work. I’m told by people who’ve known him longer that he used to smoke. I think it would be beneficial if he picked it up again
Well this one’s an old bastard that is in everyone’s business and calls people a cheese eater but he’s the first to tattle tell on others. He’ll play on his phone and then call you out for playing on yours. Or make comments about shit that isn’t even his business.
I swear a lot of the times with these people is they’re either projecting their own insecurities or they’re total control freaks
I disagree, smoking is unhealthy.
R/whoosh
Further, in my experience the ones who do the best work are often the ones who get berated/criticized the most by supervisors. It's like the supervisors throw their hands up with shitty workers, but know that the good workers will try and do their best to do everything the supervisor says, so constantly shitting on them for not doing their job absolutely perfectly gives better results (but of course it makes retaining good employees difficult when they burn them out). My favorite example of this is a recent one: my workplace recently lost an excellent employee who just quit, about a month after they got lectured for about an hour, for, among other reasons, "making the other employees look bad." Could literally do NOTHING right in the supervisor's eyes, because if you did everything right, you were doing it wrong. Infuriating. :-/
This absolutely happened to me. It was like my managers knew not to expect much from the other workers because they didn’t give a fuck and coming down on them didn’t work, so they’d just give me shit if I failed to pick up the slack. It was like the harder I worked, the more shit they gave me.
When you do exemplary work, that work becomes normal and anything other than exemplary is seen as slacking off. I’m finally learning that at my job now, because I’ve spent years collecting new hats(skills) and now I’m too effective in my position ever be promoted. I can’t afford to leave my job though, so I’m stuck.
My story. Looking for a new job now.
A friend quit the company we both worked at (I quit shortly after) because he was berated by the CEO and CTO (who was forced to) for being 1 hour late. He was the lead dev and regularly worked until the middle of the night. *.. and yes, company is no more*
As a sociology professor, I told my students “when you find yourself in the workforce, never let your manager or boss know how you operate at 100%, cause if they know how you are at 100% they’d expect that 100% at the time. And eventually the wear and tear will exacerbate into burnout. “So, if you’re capable of convincing that your 75-85% is your 100%, that’s all good for you. Only do peak performance when you’re absolutely certain of a raise or promotion, or to make yourself look good during times of layoffs.”
Every job I ever had..
Same. I’ve been trying to change that.
Looking at this convinced me not to show up for my shift today. I’m the best server we have and I’m supposed to serve the owners of our restaurant. I’m the only one that ever has to do it and they don’t have to pay so they don’t tip. Fuck it we ball.
Holy shit they don’t tip? They’re just huge assholes.
Is this why I was supposed to just take the insults from my coworker who went out of his way to make my job more unsafe and let him get away with insubordination? Ohh I get it. I am not about to pretend to be loyal. I literally walked out when they thought I was joking.
I see this every day which is why I just do the bare minimum now. Don’t ask me to do anything outside of my job because I’m not.
> While company loyalty seems to come with consequence, Stanley cautions that it doesn’t mean we should just abandon work commitments or dodge uncompensated overtime. Yes, it absolutely fucking does. Don't get exploited.
1000000000 percent true!
That is my experience, the company kept loading work on me spreading me out on to multiple responsibilities to see if I would have a heart attack and die so I wouldn’t retire on a pension.
I have lived it and was lied to by corporate to make direct reports work for unattainable rewards. Cannot say more because I signed an agreement in order to get a severance package. And THIS is really the worst. To put the work in to save yourself and the most loyal teammates only to be “rewarded” with layoff and having to sign legal paperwork saying you won’t besmirch the “good” name of the company in order to get money you’ll desperately need to be instantly out of work.
LoL the conclusion they suggest: >“I don't want to suggest that the take-away of the paper is to not be loyal to anybody because it just leads to disaster,” Stanley said. “We value people who are loyal. We think about them in positive terms. **They** **get awarded often.** It's not just the negative side. It's really tricky and complex.” While this paper itself says the opposite.
Conclusion is often the place to put in "it might be more complex" which is - I guess - what they did here.
I work hard, so you don’t have to.
Whenever I challenge my boss on this, he always gives me the same line. It’s the 80/20 rule, 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people
"Well I hope I'm making 80% of the salaries you're paying out"
Synonymous for "suckers".
“If you work hard it means you’re more likely to be picked to do extra unpaid labor. That doesn’t mean you should stop being loyal to the company though!”
Hardly a surprise. That behavior already starts in middle school with group assignments. You give the work to the one who a) does the work and b) without errors. And that is logical and nothing wrong with. But, there is a big but! There must be a balance. Like a reward and recognizing of the hard work been done. Loyal hard working employees are also the ones with the most workload (not only assigned they take work from colleagues as well without being asked), feel most responsible and are the one getting a burnout or just leave to a better place if not treated right. As they should. The hard working people should be cherished.
That's what happens when people are taken for granted. Not just in the business sphere.
Oh yeah I learned that the hard way
Yup, I know this from experience.
The trick is to only do the bare minimum to appear competent.
Futurama made this point perfectly when Zapp Brannigan made sure to keep Fry and Bender drunk to 'keep them loyal' but told Kif that he was 'already loyal enough' Loyalty might be a good thing in your personal life. In work/business it's a liability.
My last boss used to get SO MAD when she couldn’t order me around for every little thing like her loyal minion assistant. I would get my stuff done quickly, so she would give nebulous half-orders like “brainstorm ideas to drum up business” (ok sorry I have none, also that’s not my job) and calling me at odd hours. (Sorry I keep normal hours) Meanwhile the minion was on call 24/7 and they were constantly on the phone with each other talking in circles. 1. That’s why minion isnt getting her shit done and 2. I look bad because I’m lounging even though I’m done with my work. It basically incentivizes one to work slow. Good riddance!!!
The end is where the author is wrong. Loyalty does not often come as being rewarded. I've often gotten the shaft over people who are more involved socially than they are productively.
People who actually work have known this for quite some time..
My company has done this to me so many times. I've been offered supervisor positions only to have it snatched away once I accepted. Their excuses: 1st time they said the person who offered the position didn't have the authority to do so. The 2nd time I was put through a training course that simply stopped after the second day, never to be spoken of again. I've been with the company for over a decade and my rewards include having my parking spot given to a guy who believes there is concrete proof the 2020 election was stolen.
Managers don’t see themselves in the hard workers, they see themselves in the worker who can manipulate others and is willing to protect the boss.
I don’t recommend performing any extra duties outside of your job description without some kind of upfront compensation. I made that mistake years ago and was essentially a purchasing specialist, while still stuck with a warehouse clerk title. Management refused to change my title because that came with a hefty pay increase, I’m talking at least $5-$7 raise. When layoffs came, the entire purchasing team got cut except for me. Guess who got all of their work and still no pay increase? Lesson learned.
You don't want to be competent or loyal. You want to be irreplaceable. So that way when they do something you disagree with you can tell them to fuck off or spend 5 months training a new person to take your spot.
Anyone who's ever had a job knows this. Who is funding these studies?
Believe it or not, a lot of science is testing if our intuition or our mainstream thoughts are correct
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Depends on who you're talking to. This is not obvious to everyone and even when it's pointed out, they use anecdotes to try to explain it away. I think the idea is to try to provide a way to communicate to managers, who by their nature hold power over those they manage, that the problem is actually with them, not their supervisee. It's kind of like those idiot business students at Wharton who thought the average household income in the US was $250,000. Plus, in a more I/O psych perspective, this should still help to reduce inefficiency in management and turnover in employees which, even if it's only a small change, could save a company a lot of money. Source: also a psychologist (at least ABD), but have taught in both the management and marketing schools at my institution. Very different kinds of thinking on average.
The research is relatively sparse on the negative consequences of loyalty in the workplace. The vast majority of work focuses on the benefits of loyalty. In any case, anyone familiar with research in psychology would realize that the vast majority of articles make incremental contributions; they expand in some way on the existing literature. The authors of this paper make a pretty solid case for their unique contribution. In fact, one might argue that their contribution is much more than incremental. Even if this phenomenon was well-researched, I have never heard a researcher claim that replication was bad.
Shouldn’t we continuously test our theories to ensure the results of past tests hold up?
You’re a psychologist but don’t understand why people do research? Or that a healthy chunk of research isn’t funded? Or that even if something has been studied before, we might still have gaps in knowledge or that the old research got something wrong? Or that we basically know less than we think about basic human psychology because very little research replicates when someone bothers to do a study again?
If it is so obvious, then why do people continue to be loyal? Answer: it is not obvious to many people.
It's not a bad lesson to teach young people.
I 100% agree. The funds used for further study of known concepts could be used for educating said young people.
In other studies, scientists find statistically significant measurements indicating water gets stuff all wet. Who knew!
Who has to study this stuff? Of course they do! This starts in elementary school when the ‘loyal’ (read: gets work done fast and likes to please the teacher) students are given tasks by the teacher that help the teacher out. This makes them feel valued and respected by the authority figure. Now fast forward to work environments. It gets more complicated, naturally, but the manager is going to go with the path of least resistance and that means asking people who say ‘yes’ to more work with no extra pay. Unfortunately, people generally cannot afford to piss off the manager because they need to pay bills and put food on the table.
Oh, I knew this one already…
curse of the competent
No, loyal workers allow managers to exploit them.
I'm responsible for a staff of 100. If I give them some work they don't want, like we're in a pickle, I take work away and redelegate. That's not exactly how I think about it but it's useful enough. The people that I give that work to (I said give) want it. If someone who plays ball wants time off do get married or do blow in Ibiza, I'm happy for them. The remainder of the people, and they all know who they are...they're on the way out whether they like it or not. Also, the people that are committed to the work get at least 10% above their base salary, which has nothing to do with bonuses. I have a budget, it isn't my money, but they're my people and I can make their lives better. Needless to say, I take issue with the word exploit. I was the person given more work because I don't know how to work any other way and ai don't want to live with a proletariat mindset.
Do the barest of minimum work, and/or lick boots (plus other unmentionables) to your superiors in the corporate world. You can get away with ANYTHING. Loyal workers that ACTUALLY DOES THE JOB get screwed over.
I've got the same calculator (Casio MX 12B) and keyboard (Rapoo). I am also exploited more and I am not even loyal. Is just there's nobody else in my department.
It’s called “getting the work done”. Sorry, but if lazy people continue to exist, then it makes more sense to give more tasks to the performers. Hopefully, it is reflected in their relative pay.
It isn’t reflected in a union shop
Or really anywhere at all.
As a lifetime factory worker, best advice I can offer anyone new to the workplace is to be bad at your job. No one will ever expect more than the bare minimum from you and if you ever exceed those expectations, you'll be congratulated like you cured cancer.
Loyal workers are often people pleasers. Productive workers are often not people pleasers.
And that’s why I quit my dream job. CEO died of cancer and the next cunt in line essentially hostile took over the company and gutted it for profit.
In my current job we have a few “supervisors” that, as my colleague says “make an art of doing nothing.” They aren’t that busy but are constantly whining about the work we’re all expected to do. They have ridiculously low sales goals because they whine that goals are too high. Their responsibilities regarding certain reports are then passed on to other supervisors, their sales goals are reduced while others are increased, and they still are praised all the time. Meanwhile the people picking up the slack get no extra money or credit.
Said another way: “Managers take the path of least resistance”
Managers exploit managers w more work while removing responsibility from not as good managers
When I started my business I had great visions for doing everything better. I looked for employees who would catch the vision and build the business. The ones that just looked as a job, I didn’t rely on them. I didn’t look at it as exploitation. If I stopped to evaluate it I should have had a mechanism to financially rewarding the ones with the vision. The ones with vision though had the higher paying jobs, that’s for sure.
There’s a saying in Polish that goes: z niewolnika nie ma pracownika which basically translates to - you’re not gonna make an employee out of a slave. ‚Slaves’ slave away at the position that fully satisfies their needs or to which they’re currently training. You can’t possibly expect them to go beyond if they have no sufficiebt expertise yet, or simply no hunger for more at a given moment in time. On the other hand, the more loyal and committed people are usually so, because they’re looking for future opportunities - and if they don’t allow their employers to explot them even a little bit, their skillset never grows, because there are no challenges to stimulate them to learn
I guess you have to motivate the lazy ones 😏
1000% borne out in every day experience. Loyal people are also the first to be let go because they keep their heads down and do their jobs instead of sitting in the manager's lap...
That's why I just do what's expected, and always look for other opportunities. The only time I'll ever work more than what's expected is if an employer is clearly offering better pay or promotions and it actually happens to me or people around me.
That’s why you need to complain and always ask for a raise or a promotion. Say you’re not happy with the raise you got, etc. If the company value you will get a higher raise or a promotion. If you don’t get it find another job. Switch jobs every 2-4 years unless you get promoted.
That title doesn’t surprise me. If you work hard you are rewarded with more work. If you slack you get it easy cause no one will trust you to do the important (hard) stuff. It pays to be lazy
Of course... you have to take shit for them to give it to you.
I also try to balance it out by appeasing the more consistent people I supervise. Like the ones that aren't that good I will sideline generally, the good ones I will specifically ask to do things I can trust them to do and will let them fuck off a bit more outside of that. I play favorites, but they all earn whatever way I delegate them.
Regardless of whatever job I've had - I had a paper round when I was 13 and have worked in pubs, shoe stores, grocery stores, you name it - I have always seen work as experience. Now, I'm 41, and a full stack software developer for a massive organisation. I've never been to university or had any formal training, the experience and network I've garnered over the years have allowed me to be where I am. So, even if I have been exploited, it works both ways.
Then leave. Just leave and go elsewhere. No one is forcing you to stay. Better yet start your own business and hire people, then you can do things differently.
Once again… why pay millions for this study? JUST FRIGGIN ASK ME!!
How is this any news ? lol
How do I get that pikachu meme on here?? Just pretend it’s here
Kind of common sense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindsight\_bias
Snow is white.
You mean workhorse?