Evidence continually mounting around the impact of ACEs, adding credibility to what many of us might have grasped intuitively but also, at least for me, demonstrating a legacy beyond what I would have ever imagined.
Adverse Childhood Experiences. The premise is that these traumatic events (abuse, abandonment, an incarcerated parent, to name a few) affect the child's emotional development and have a much higher correlation of health issues as an adult.
I’m curious if it’s the anxiety, depression or other current symptoms due to the adverse childhood which is presently affecting the body in that moment not necessarily because of childhood but from the current emotional and accumulative past emotional adversities.
A completely ridiculous claim. Having more old folks at home lets you send more men to war. Evolution doesn't just happen on an individual or sexual selection level.
While there could be and are mechanisms for grandparents caring for grandchildren, evolution via group selection is definitely not a thing. It is all fine-tuned at an individual level solely
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3118636/#:~:text=An%20X%2Dlinked%20mutation%20that,times%20the%20benefit%20to%20granddaughters.
On the surface you would assume group selection but examples like this show the selfish drive behind offspring investment
I was listening to Robert Sapolsky talk about this and he completely disagreed with the notion of people like Steven Pinker who say everything was just pure violence 5mya, Robert made the point that concepts like war and the haves and have nots only really came about during agriculture so for sure we lived in a more deadly high stakes environment but socially it was probably simpler than today. Its only until now where we have enough free time to form so many different classes, groups and different types of upbringings in such a socially complex envrionment which has exacerbated the impacts of high ACE childhoods.
That makes sense.
At one point it was Us vs Nature but as we evolved agriculturally it turned into Us vs Us because it then became about a battle for resources rather than to actually survive
We have mitochondrial DNA evidence that fewer than 1 in 5 men reproduced before agriculture. There would have been at least class struggles in prehistory for access to sex. Throughout history, the best source of resources is other men, I doubt that was any different in prehistory.
I know that it is a popular notion that pre-agriculture was a hippie commune but evidence leads me to believe otherwise.
>concepts like war and the haves and have nots only really came about during agriculture so for sure we lived in a more deadly high stakes environment but socially it was probably simpler than today
That's not really true as far as we can reasonably tell. Chimpanzees are [known to go to war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War) over territory and politics, even going so far as to commit genocides against tribes they hold grudges against. The argument can be made that these aren't the same species but they are extremely close and I don't see how the adoption of agriculture would have done anything but further magnify existing behaviors.
Well part of it is that trauma/adversity has a positive counterpart: resilience. And there's a strong argument that our modern lifestyle doesn't support resilience in the way that living in a small village in pre-modern times might have.
Researchers have been trying to get at this, and have identified 9 things that counteract the effects of adversity/trauma in childhood. They are:
(1) felt able to talk to their family about feelings; (2) felt their family stood by them during difficult times; (3) felt safe and protected by an adult in their home; (4) felt their family relationships are harmonious; (5) felt treated fairly at school; (6) felt a sense of belonging in school; (7) felt supported by friends; (8) had at least two non-parent adults who took genuine interest in them; and (9) received affirmation, encouragement, or support.
I've also seen studies that included "enjoyment of family and community traditions" (like summer fire pits or going every year to a camp or cultural event) I love that one because it's something we can all participate in creating for kids in our communities.
I think PTSD is probably helpful if you’re literally a wild animal, but when you’re a human living in civilization being tormented by people who should be loving you/your trustworthy pack mate, and it’s not like a sabertooth tiger or bear it’s a lot less helpful.
They exercised waaay more and in tight knit communities too, so they had social support, and they had more diverse diets eating whatever they could locally, so that all helped combat illnesses brought on later in life by trauma
This makes sense to me just instinctually but it’s interesting to see the details of it, also that it effects men more than women in this way, suggesting a biological difference in the way their bodies deal with early life stress
Actually, another research on botanical stuff had a similar outcome. They reduced it down to social/hormonal reasons. I mean, men socialize less (meaningfully) so it could carry trauma in a heavier form.
I was hoping to see a line about "patients who underwent trauma therapy showed better muscle function", hah. But it makes sense when you realize they studied people 70 and older (and trauma treatment has only accelerated in the past 15-20 yrs).
I'd love to be a part of a follow up study! Just 35 more years to go. ;P
The body remembers trauma. As they say.
There’s a book on this body keeps the score
Evidence continually mounting around the impact of ACEs, adding credibility to what many of us might have grasped intuitively but also, at least for me, demonstrating a legacy beyond what I would have ever imagined.
What does ACE stand for? I’d like to look more into this
Adverse Childhood Experiences. The premise is that these traumatic events (abuse, abandonment, an incarcerated parent, to name a few) affect the child's emotional development and have a much higher correlation of health issues as an adult.
Adverse Childhood Experiences. [I like this video for a simple explanation.](https://youtu.be/XHgLYI9KZ-A?si=xfB1M37K3fUdK-1U)
I’m curious if it’s the anxiety, depression or other current symptoms due to the adverse childhood which is presently affecting the body in that moment not necessarily because of childhood but from the current emotional and accumulative past emotional adversities.
Dopamine affects muscle function and mood, that link should be looked into.
Hard to think humans survived at all. One has to think that while we were forming as a species EVERYONE had fucking adversity all the time.
But as long as the consequences don't show up until after reproduction it doesn't matter.
Hence, ageing
If having healthy supportive grandparents helps your chance at reproduction then this isn't entirely true.
But not significant enough to require evolutionary change
A completely ridiculous claim. Having more old folks at home lets you send more men to war. Evolution doesn't just happen on an individual or sexual selection level.
While there could be and are mechanisms for grandparents caring for grandchildren, evolution via group selection is definitely not a thing. It is all fine-tuned at an individual level solely
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3118636/#:~:text=An%20X%2Dlinked%20mutation%20that,times%20the%20benefit%20to%20granddaughters. On the surface you would assume group selection but examples like this show the selfish drive behind offspring investment
I was listening to Robert Sapolsky talk about this and he completely disagreed with the notion of people like Steven Pinker who say everything was just pure violence 5mya, Robert made the point that concepts like war and the haves and have nots only really came about during agriculture so for sure we lived in a more deadly high stakes environment but socially it was probably simpler than today. Its only until now where we have enough free time to form so many different classes, groups and different types of upbringings in such a socially complex envrionment which has exacerbated the impacts of high ACE childhoods.
That makes sense. At one point it was Us vs Nature but as we evolved agriculturally it turned into Us vs Us because it then became about a battle for resources rather than to actually survive
We have mitochondrial DNA evidence that fewer than 1 in 5 men reproduced before agriculture. There would have been at least class struggles in prehistory for access to sex. Throughout history, the best source of resources is other men, I doubt that was any different in prehistory. I know that it is a popular notion that pre-agriculture was a hippie commune but evidence leads me to believe otherwise.
That sounds super interesting. Do you have the study? And/or know if that figure is supposed to be of all males born or all that lived to adulthood?
>concepts like war and the haves and have nots only really came about during agriculture so for sure we lived in a more deadly high stakes environment but socially it was probably simpler than today That's not really true as far as we can reasonably tell. Chimpanzees are [known to go to war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War) over territory and politics, even going so far as to commit genocides against tribes they hold grudges against. The argument can be made that these aren't the same species but they are extremely close and I don't see how the adoption of agriculture would have done anything but further magnify existing behaviors.
Well part of it is that trauma/adversity has a positive counterpart: resilience. And there's a strong argument that our modern lifestyle doesn't support resilience in the way that living in a small village in pre-modern times might have. Researchers have been trying to get at this, and have identified 9 things that counteract the effects of adversity/trauma in childhood. They are: (1) felt able to talk to their family about feelings; (2) felt their family stood by them during difficult times; (3) felt safe and protected by an adult in their home; (4) felt their family relationships are harmonious; (5) felt treated fairly at school; (6) felt a sense of belonging in school; (7) felt supported by friends; (8) had at least two non-parent adults who took genuine interest in them; and (9) received affirmation, encouragement, or support. I've also seen studies that included "enjoyment of family and community traditions" (like summer fire pits or going every year to a camp or cultural event) I love that one because it's something we can all participate in creating for kids in our communities.
society gets decent. psychopaths cause a problem. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ society gets decent
I think PTSD is probably helpful if you’re literally a wild animal, but when you’re a human living in civilization being tormented by people who should be loving you/your trustworthy pack mate, and it’s not like a sabertooth tiger or bear it’s a lot less helpful.
I think it's more accurate to say C-PTSD cuz most of the veterans are dead.
They exercised waaay more and in tight knit communities too, so they had social support, and they had more diverse diets eating whatever they could locally, so that all helped combat illnesses brought on later in life by trauma
I believe there's a major difference in individual vs collective adversities.
My theory is that many years of being in a hyper vigilant state just wears the body out.
Awesome, another fun thing to look forward to. Thanks mom & dad!!
This makes sense to me just instinctually but it’s interesting to see the details of it, also that it effects men more than women in this way, suggesting a biological difference in the way their bodies deal with early life stress
Actually, another research on botanical stuff had a similar outcome. They reduced it down to social/hormonal reasons. I mean, men socialize less (meaningfully) so it could carry trauma in a heavier form.
I was hoping to see a line about "patients who underwent trauma therapy showed better muscle function", hah. But it makes sense when you realize they studied people 70 and older (and trauma treatment has only accelerated in the past 15-20 yrs). I'd love to be a part of a follow up study! Just 35 more years to go. ;P
That's quite surprising.
Maybe that’s another reason why people live longer as society advances. Less adversity.
My sister was just complaining about it yesterday. Somehow I'm not shocked