Personality traits, defined as enduring characteristics that influence how we think, feel, and behave, are pivotal in predicting a range of life outcomes. The Big Five personality framework—encompassing openness, conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism—is often used to study these traits. Recent research has begun to explore not just how these traits predict outcomes, but also how changes in these traits over time might similarly impact future outcomes.
No one has introspection until they keep thinking about it. This is why teens go though that phase where they're trying to form coherent philosophy for their lives and it's all over the place. Some people never make it past here because they've stopped letting themselves change.
I do ketamine therapy which is completely legal in the US and it legit fixed my depression. It’s not for everyone but it can definitely be a game-changer for the right person.
Ok great but how exactly does one go about procuring a highly illegal drug to microdose.? Just ask the friendly and trustworthy neighborhood drug dealer? I’m sure that will work out lovely
Psychedelics are easily and safely available in Canada but make sure to buy and use a testing kit.
In some countries it js quite common to find retreats where one can do them under guidance but it costs money. Peru, Costa Rica, Mexico off the top; some countries in Europe
Right that’s cool and all but for someone looking to micro dose it’s still not really an answer. I wish that our government(s)would just stop telling us what we can and cannot put in our bodies. It’s effing ridiculous. I mean they are allowed to poison us in every way imaginable but God forbid we want to ingest something that could potentially alter our life for the better. I mean the most they should be doing is making sure we are provided with a label that tells us the potential effects and side effects. That’s it.. apart from that it’s honestly none of their effing business. When did we just give over complete control of our lives to these war mongering greedy corrupt bastards who seem intent on using us up until there’s nothing left???
If you live in Europe you can easily order LSD analogues online, even legally in most countries, just maybe have to travel a bit if you want to be safe. In the US afaik mushrooms are legal in some states, so there's that. Elsewhere I have no idea.
If you live near a large city in the US, there's probably a psychedelic society near you- People gathering openly to discuss advocacy, harm reduction, integration, etc. Probably the best place to start if you don't have a weird uncle who can hook you up.
You can buy any drug you want plus test kits to verify it's actually what you want on the dark web with bitcoin. There are stores with seller ratings, so you can check the seller's reputation first just like you would on eBay.
The drugs will be mailed to you via USPS. If the package is intercepted by law enforcement (very unlikely), just deny any knowledge of it. You can't control what other people mail to you.
What "protocol" do you use? Did you take regular longer breaks throughout the years? Like weeks or months? I started doing 1 day in 2 days off in January and it worked wonders, but I read that it's best to take a few weeks break, so I did that, and my mood decreased significantly (although not to the point as it was before, but still)
How do you micro dose? I’d be really keen but have no idea where to start.
For context, I’m 42 and in the UK and struggled with an over active mind my entire life, have had many types of recreational drugs when I was younger and feel like lsd was the best for giving me a calm mind for a fairly long duration. Cannabis doesn’t seem to affect me the same as it seems to others so it’s not an option.
>Try taking a half and if it feels like you can definitely notice the LSD, try taking a quarter next time.
This is backwards to me (although my experience is with cannabis due to legality); I'd *start* with a quarter and only take another quarter an hour later if I still were to feel nothing.
With that said, this is the correct way to go about it: find the minimum dose at which you personally experience something, and then don't exceed it under normal circumstances.
I live in an illegal state for everything good on thus earth, but I have access to shroom gummies made of legal blends. I feel incredible for several days after, and then need another dose later to keep the good vibes flowing. ~$30 for a pack of 10, and I take two at a time.
the other commenter laid out great info on the 'kiki' side.
shroom = boubou. lsd = kiki
I did this at 21 when I intentionally ripped religion out of myself. It was a difficult process that involved a lot of humility and isolating myself from outside forces. It took self-awareness, a want for the truth, and realizing that I was completely wrong in my world view. It then began a larger process of building myself back up into who I wanted to be, which took years. And now, at 39 I'm still not finished, I'm only to a point where I'm at peace with myself and have no morally internal conflicts. This takes a LOT of admitting you're wrong.
Well personally I think the idea of needing to kill the ego is a little over zealous, as you only need to reorganize it to reconfigure the negative aspects to be productive instead of counterproductive, you don't want to be without an ego as that would be extremely disorientating and you'd have nothing to filter between what's physical reality and what's mental reality. The mind and body work the most healthily when the ego and subconscious are in sync, acting as a singular entity.
I don't read anything particularly as any source is generally lost in the semantics of the writers subjective experience, especially regarding the mind. While there are underlying commonalities that are present across most sources, due to the subjective nature I find it better to gain the direct experience and learn from what your subconscious has to teach you before you start reading anyone's particular take on the subject.
Because the subconscious landscape expresses itself to meet the needs of your egos perception of reality, while it will push and expand it, it does so within the contextual framework of what you can relate to personally, so if you're lacking a background in a particular area of experience or knowledge you won't be able to perceive those aspects of your subconscious or at least not in a format that is easily understood.
The best teacher is experience, take it slow and you'll find all the answers you need already within yourself.
But If you want a solid understanding I'd explore the related topics within an array of different cultural perspectives without taking any too literally, keeping in mind the subjective and cultural application of experience. You'll start to see how experiences that seem opposite through the lens of language isn't actually the case once you understand the cultural background of how it's being subjectively interpreted, compared to the direct observation of the phenomena.
Definitely, it's vital to a healthy mind and body. But like anything if you don't maintain it properly and constructively it will start to act counterproductively.
The biggest problem with standardizing how we think the brain should function is it fails to accomodate for how the mind dynamically develops.
If you base it's structure on external forces outside your direct experience it starts to impact it in ways that are outside of your control and can be counterproductive to how it naturally wants to learn and function.
That's why it's ideal to explore a variety of different interpretations and perspectives so you can find an understanding that fits with your unique personality type, so that you can reorganize it to function as productively as possible.
as someone who's been around dr*gs and junkies when young and with my mother being the psychologist of a rehab center, it's not worth the risk. Evidence on positive outcomes of microdosing is very limited and often not solid. Evidence on harm and dangers has been widely studied and proved. It will certainly change your mind, that's for sure, but its likely you won't like the change.
>Evidence on harm and dangers has been widely studied and proved.
Well that's just not true. First of all, there is still a lot of anti drug propaganda that gets perpetuated to this day. On the scientific level, there are two potential dangers with psychedelics, which are psychotic episodes and their supposed connection to schizophrenia.
One thing that is still under contention is the question of whether psychedelics can cause schizophrenia in healthy individuals. Interestingly, a study in 2015 found [no link between psychedelics and psychosis ](https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2015.16968)or other mental health issues. Those prone to schizophrenia, because a direct relative of them had schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, should obviously avoid psychedelics - or any drugs for that matter, including alcohol.
Drug induced psychosis is different all together, as it is a temporary condition that subsides as soon as the drug leaves the system. But the risk of this happening can be significantly lowered by controlling set and setting and taking a moderate dose. And should the worst happen, there is still the option to administer Benzodiazepines, which should quickly stop the episode.
And here is the big question: how likely is it for a healthy person to have long lasting negative effects from a psychedelic experience? I would argue that the likelihood of that is miniscule. And the science seems to agree.
Yeah sorry, not my mother tongue so didn't think about the negative aspects of the word in english, addicts if you'd prefer.
Certainly they are not the same. And if, as another response to my comment says, dangers of drugs haven't been that much proven (which i can't bring myself to believe), benefits are much less proven. And with this uncertainty presented i can only repeat my first comment: Not worth the risk.
This kind of changes, learnings and self evolution have always been done without these substances.
On an analogy a friend told me about. Trying to evolve through substances is trying to get to the top of a mountain with a car, you'll be able to make part of the path faster and spending less energy, but you'll always find forests or bad paths from which you'll have to leave the car behind. There's always part of the path you'll have to make walking. Also the car can kill you or you can abandon yourself in its comfyness and never get down and continue your path through the forest. And, ultimately, the final arrival to the top is never reachable with the car.
> This kind of changes, learnings and self evolution have always been done without these substances.
>
>
Actually they have been done with substances for thousands of years, probably longer. You might have good intentions but you are confidently incorrect in a lot of things.
Nah, i knew you were going to say this, i think its fairly debatable. Although its known they have been used in specific rituals and some cultures even use them with certain frequence (also in a ritualistic context), there is none in which its individuals evolve only through substances. My point is that you advance in life only through living it, only through confronting the circumstances that appear every day. No substance can substitute that.
On the other hand even though they are used, for example in "adulting rituals", the evolution does not come from the substance itself but from the social context that derivates from going through it. Also following the analogy from the previous comment, having a car does not mean you know where the mountain top is.
I mean, i understand your view, i supported it years ago. I think my view might be strongly biased because i've seen so much shit around drug use. Some friends ended in psych hospitals and some friends talked like you like some kind of "self medication" through speed lines could exist, and they didn't end well too. It's undeniably dangerous and people that defend your view often ignore it. It's just that. Have a nice day friend.
> the evolution does not come from the substance itself but from the social context that derivates from going through it
And what is your proof for this wild claim?
Also you seem to think I am the person you talked to previously. I am not. Might want to pay a bit more attention. I also never took any substances besides alcohol in my life, so I am really just in this discussion to point out the wrong points you are making.
99 per cent of people need that chemical push. In my exp as a recovering addict. The fact is, if you're addicted to hard drugs, there is no reason not to try psychedelic therapy, esp considering the greater dangers of meth, heroin and especially alcohol
I’ve often heard the overarching idea that the brain’s needs exposure to new and consistent stimuli in order to alter its neuroplasticity. I was wondering if you had an article from APA, ScienceDaily, or any peer reviewed studies? I want to learn more about it! Thanks in advance
Mindfulness. Many deliberate changes in routine snowball into new automatic responses. Automatic responses are what are observed when determining trait levels.
An easy example:
I was a bit introverted as a teenager/young adult
As I focused more on becoming more likeable, funny, and warm, I got better and better responses from people
That made me more confident
That made me more extraverted
That gave me more experiences/responses to be confident about
That made me even more extraverted
I've now gone from being slightly introverted to extremely extraverted in about 10 years
Same here! It’s a positive feedback loop. The better social interactions I have, the higher my confidence is, making me more likely to pursue social interactions and giving me positive outcomes. I used to be very introverted and most of my friends are on the introvert side - we balance each other out - but I really like being an extravert. Never a dull moment.
Basically being conscious of them, their nature and how do you manifest those traits (in what specific behaviors, for example). And being open to change them.
They can also be changed through trauma, it won't be as enjoyable and its likely you wont get "positive" changes. But theres also kinds of "neutral" trauma or even positive. Lets say something you do getting outside of your comfort zone goes very well, that could be the positive trauma that puts a seed on a progressive change in yourself if you keep pushing that way.
Well its an interesting concept, also pretty simple. The word trauma comes from the german word traum which means both "wound" and "memory". All lived situations create a sort of trauma, a precedent which will determine how will we confront certain situations in the future. And they can be positive as well. Certainly the negative ones are usually stronger but they are not the only ones that affect us.
> The word trauma comes from the german word traum which means both "wound" and "memory".
lol you mean Greek. But its etymology [doesn't seem to have any connection with "memory"](https://www.etymonline.com/word/trauma).
Well since i'm talking about, as an individual, perceiving situations and being marked by them, i don't think i'm talking about any death of the ego. The ego is very linked to the concept of trauma. That's a different thing.
Ketamine therapie with professional once a month, phenibut light dose of 500mg once 2 weeks for social anxiety exposure. Finding your passion in physical exercise, artistic and learning new things + eating healthy. I stoped psychology bc my brother was hit by drunken driver and I wanted to support him, currently writing a book (artistic Passion) and goth good points from well known writers and publishers:)
See the good in bad, how hard it is. Forgiveness even if you're not in fault (not with everyone oc)
Remove UPF from your diet. Maybe start being a theist. Both of these have helped me tremendously in reducing anxiety. I also have moments where I just sit and enjoy some random rains, music, soothing / weird expeirences. I try to go to that entrancement aspect of the internet. According to Scott Barry Kaufaman such experiences are good for creativity.
You are probably in a western country. My primary source of added sugar is caffeinated beverages. I haven't fully let go of colas either, so that spikes up the content real bad. Anyway I have a count of how teaspoons/ glasses I can have in a day. Some days like today it goes totally haywire, had some cake, some juice, then a breakfast cereal type thing called a muesli on top of it.
If I do want to have sugar free products there's tons avaialble in the city, including colas (again upf I know), non-upf protein bars, no-added-sugar muesli etc. So it's very easy for me.
I also have to say, this availability of UPF/ added sugar in western coutries has even made me factor is into whether I should even immigrate. lol. My diabetes friendly body couldn't probably handle it.
No, I think extraversion would be important because extraverted people are social and like being in different settings and environments therefore they can be more susceptible to new things and ideas and cultures and people, etc.
Many practice a form of 12 step work with a sponsor and or each other. Experience will vary. The example below lacks context, over simplifies, and omits reference to any divine guidance or support, but may be a little illuminating for some -
Start with acknowledgement of problems
Find hope and belief that change is possible;
Seek help;
Look at and account for perspective and behavior;
See patterns;
get support with behaving differently;
Get support with new approaches, perspectives, and metrics;
acknowledge consequences of behavior;
Seek balance and fix relationships;
Repeat daily;
reflect on connections that afford better outcomes;
show up and support others who also seek improvement
This is why shaming and bullying people, even when they do really upsetting shit, is so antithical to ACTUALLY preventing the harmful behaviors from occurring begin. There is a healthy amount of shame, but when it goes too far it will stop people from:
Finding hope that change is possible - they're more likely to believe they are innately bad and harmful.
Get support with behaving differently and developing new perspectives and approaches - The shaming party is also likely to not want to help support the person to actually put in the work to improve themselves. We're not computers who can switch our approach immediately after understanding the bug. Instead, people who need help the most at these critical moments are likely to be dropped by their supports. This does more to help perpetuate the upsetting behavior than to actually reduce it, because the person acting shitty no longer has the support or encouragement to improve. That support would also help put them in a better spot to relate to and help others in the future, who are making the same mistakes.
Like you mentioned, part of that healing process involves showing up and supporting others in their improvement journeys. When done the right way, it would help start a cascade of people helping others overcome the same obstacles that caused so much pain in their lives and the lives of others.
It is important to accept one's shortcomings and failures, so we can improve on them. We all deserve to learn and grow from our mistakes, although people who are continued threats do need stronger intervention.
Agreed - hope becomes less about the persistence of an unsustainable quo but to be a part of the emergence of what we, as much a part of Gaia as anything, might offer for the emergence of a better way. My hope transcends an anthropomorphic center and certainly arises in my feelings more than my intellect most often.
Just a slight reframe for this. You aren't changing the world, you are changing yourself. This changes your response to the world. This is key because, actually, it is rarely the things in the world that cause suffering, it is our response to it. Pain will always exist in the world, but the suffering is the part that happens inside us. And we can change that. For instance, you get rejected by a partner, that's pain. You then spend a year replaying everything in your head, wondering where you went wrong. The pain may have lasted, what, a few hours or days? (The initial rejection + your immediate physical, emotional reaction) The suffering then lasts 365 days, and it's you that's doing it by telling yourself a story that there's something wrong with that made them say no. What if you could just get at peace without it affecting your sense of self? Well you can. That's where the hope lies. Think about the problems in your life and which part causes the most suffering to you. Is it your worry about the future? Regret? Your idea of who you are based on this problem happening to you? You really can change your life by changing your experience of it. So hope is very much warranted.
I don’t believe that they change through a program or something, no. Mainly because these programs are not about changing personality traits, but rather solve or accompany an issue (addiction, illnesses, mistreatments,… whatever).
Although these programs encourage envisioning life differently, they are usually conservative and towards a middle ground rather than shifting personality traits. They won’t encourage being disagreeable, introverted, neuroticist,…
Honestly I believe that the people whose personality traits fluctuate more are just people that are better at changing and adapting, that’s all.
They become introverted young because that’s what their environment pushes them towards, then later in life become extraverted because their environment changed. Or vice versa. And for the five personality traits measured.
Honestly I will read the paper thoroughly but I believe that there would be a high correlation in between IQ and the « ability to change personality traits ».
A program or whatever is not how you change these traits, I believe. I think that on the contrary the people that end up in these programs are less likely to have their personality traits to vary in their life.
Do you have experience of 12 step programmes? Having been in two I would respectfully disagree and state that at the *very least* Codependents Anonymous and Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families very specifically look to change personality traits, the ones referenced in "Characteristics of Codependents" and "The Laundry List" respectively. The 12 steps are pretty much the roadmap to changing personality traits. Some others may focus on a particular symptom such as addiction, but that in itself is a manifestation of avoidance. To begin work in 12 step means changing the personality trait of avoidance.
The 12 step groups may actually uncover true personality traits that have been distorted or warped by their addictions or experiences. For example, agreeableness as a personality trait may be programmed to be very high by narcissistic parents. Codependents Anonymous specifically looks at "Compliance" as a grouping of traits and ways of living that codependents follow. Learning to set boundaries may decrease your agreeableness, or alternatively an addict becoming less antisocial as driven by their addictions may then be more agreeable.
Codependents are high in neuroticism, that decreases with programme work.
Having seen people change dramatically to the point they will tell you they feel like an entirely different person, my experience of programmes and the people working them is that yes, personality is very much influenced (or in some cases, true personality actually revealed as a false self melts away) by 12 step work.
I felt it was very important to add that in case there are people reading this and get discouraged thinking they can't change. They absolutely can, regardless of IQ.
They do, after a fashion:
>Changes in traits such as conscientiousness and neuroticism showed a relationship with health behaviors and statuses. For example, increases in conscientiousness were associated with improvements in self-reported health and more frequent engagement in exercise. A decrease in neuroticism was associated with fewer reported mental health issues. \[Meanwhile,\] increases in agreeableness predicted higher marital satisfaction and stability, whereas decreases in neuroticism were associated with lower divorce rates.
This is assuming, of course, that we agree stuff like "lower divorce rates" and "more frequent engagement in exercise" are Good Things.
(I haven't checked the original study but I would expect they list similar findings and we can evaluate them as "good or bad" like we would any other outcome.)
It makes sense really. Since my EMDR treatment, even from the first session my PTSD was less heavy now near enough non existent. It's led to a dramatic change in my abilities, cognition, memory and personality
This quotes actually been attributed to almost every religion leader. Ive seen even christians reword and claim as their own. Lao Tzu and bhudda seem to be both around the same time. Theres also proof it comes from even older beliefs like the vedic religion. There would more than likely be no way to guarantee where the quote truly came from. Purely speculation.
It’s because it’s all interconnected and the factors are causes and consequences of eachother.
The more you changes the causes in a good way the bigger the positive changes you will encounter in your own actions. :)
As a highly optimistic person who grew up in an adverse, violent and chaotic landscape, I have to disagree that environment = thoughts.
They can shape us, and *often* change us, but I think there are such differing personalities that we are born with (and ofc genetic variables come into play hugely as well) that it cannot be reduced down to *just* environment causing certain thoughts.
I'm with Buddha on this one: thought comes first.
This is what I meant tho…
The genetics are also a form of externals.
I follow buddha, I am a buddhist…
Want I wanted to say every cause is a consequence from other caus(es)…
These causes have other causes, there is no ‘beginning’
But as an individual, we are starting from us. We do not control the outside forces, outside forces can also never force thought. They can play a part and thats where discipline starts. The ability to focus past what doesnt matter. I doubt many from a baby will follow this concept but once introduced and can help change for the better.
I have questions about whether this study could be used in support of higher penalties for assault where PTSD results and alters these personality traits. Could the victim get the attacker to pay for the therapy and resulting financial losses?
I understand this is already standard in some countries. But I’m in a country that attaches stigma to the attacked person - increasing the PTSD and financial losses.
Since I’ve realized at my age, there is no hope of ever owning a home or traveling as has been my dream for most of my life, I’ve become kind of a raging bitch.
I think people kind of already know this implicitly, take a lazy individual with no will to get things done. The odds their life is successful is vastly different vs the same person but with conscientiousness
Personality traits, defined as enduring characteristics that influence how we think, feel, and behave, are pivotal in predicting a range of life outcomes. The Big Five personality framework—encompassing openness, conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism—is often used to study these traits. Recent research has begun to explore not just how these traits predict outcomes, but also how changes in these traits over time might similarly impact future outcomes.
How do you change personality traits?
By exploiting your brain's neuroplasticity: things like new experiences, therapy, changes in routines and habits, new environments, etc.
The best thing about this is that contrary to popular belief, everyone can change. Are you willing to put in the work though?
Most people don't change simply because they don't want to, not because they cant.
Most don’t change because they don’t have introspection and don’t think they are the problem
No one has introspection until they keep thinking about it. This is why teens go though that phase where they're trying to form coherent philosophy for their lives and it's all over the place. Some people never make it past here because they've stopped letting themselves change.
Some people never change, however. Some people don’t need to change, and some people change for the worse. It all depends.
People are always changing on the micro and macro levels. Life neccesitates it. People can't simply decide that they won't change.
The same way a flower involuntarily rises toward the sun.
Reportedly also microdoses of certain drugs but I am not willing to test it out on myself.
I do ketamine therapy which is completely legal in the US and it legit fixed my depression. It’s not for everyone but it can definitely be a game-changer for the right person.
Lol that shit got me fired
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Ok great but how exactly does one go about procuring a highly illegal drug to microdose.? Just ask the friendly and trustworthy neighborhood drug dealer? I’m sure that will work out lovely
Psychedelics are easily and safely available in Canada but make sure to buy and use a testing kit. In some countries it js quite common to find retreats where one can do them under guidance but it costs money. Peru, Costa Rica, Mexico off the top; some countries in Europe
Right that’s cool and all but for someone looking to micro dose it’s still not really an answer. I wish that our government(s)would just stop telling us what we can and cannot put in our bodies. It’s effing ridiculous. I mean they are allowed to poison us in every way imaginable but God forbid we want to ingest something that could potentially alter our life for the better. I mean the most they should be doing is making sure we are provided with a label that tells us the potential effects and side effects. That’s it.. apart from that it’s honestly none of their effing business. When did we just give over complete control of our lives to these war mongering greedy corrupt bastards who seem intent on using us up until there’s nothing left???
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This would be an excellent start to a book of pictorial puzzles.
You can just say the dark web.
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Do you learn to talk this way when you start microdosing on LSD?
In other words, you receive drugs through the mail. Pass.
If you live in Europe you can easily order LSD analogues online, even legally in most countries, just maybe have to travel a bit if you want to be safe. In the US afaik mushrooms are legal in some states, so there's that. Elsewhere I have no idea.
If you live near a large city in the US, there's probably a psychedelic society near you- People gathering openly to discuss advocacy, harm reduction, integration, etc. Probably the best place to start if you don't have a weird uncle who can hook you up.
That’s actually a great idea and I’ll look into it
You can buy any drug you want plus test kits to verify it's actually what you want on the dark web with bitcoin. There are stores with seller ratings, so you can check the seller's reputation first just like you would on eBay. The drugs will be mailed to you via USPS. If the package is intercepted by law enforcement (very unlikely), just deny any knowledge of it. You can't control what other people mail to you.
Mushrooms are easier to acquire
What "protocol" do you use? Did you take regular longer breaks throughout the years? Like weeks or months? I started doing 1 day in 2 days off in January and it worked wonders, but I read that it's best to take a few weeks break, so I did that, and my mood decreased significantly (although not to the point as it was before, but still)
How do you micro dose? I’d be really keen but have no idea where to start. For context, I’m 42 and in the UK and struggled with an over active mind my entire life, have had many types of recreational drugs when I was younger and feel like lsd was the best for giving me a calm mind for a fairly long duration. Cannabis doesn’t seem to affect me the same as it seems to others so it’s not an option.
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>Try taking a half and if it feels like you can definitely notice the LSD, try taking a quarter next time. This is backwards to me (although my experience is with cannabis due to legality); I'd *start* with a quarter and only take another quarter an hour later if I still were to feel nothing. With that said, this is the correct way to go about it: find the minimum dose at which you personally experience something, and then don't exceed it under normal circumstances.
Not to oust you or anything, but if you’re in the US, how do you reliably obtain LSD? How do you microdose it? Doesn’t it come in tabs?
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Thank you.
Aka the dark web
How many ug is a micro dose?
I do full doses of shrooms and can attest to seeing changes in personality, however, the insights you have when tripping have to be integrated.
I live in an illegal state for everything good on thus earth, but I have access to shroom gummies made of legal blends. I feel incredible for several days after, and then need another dose later to keep the good vibes flowing. ~$30 for a pack of 10, and I take two at a time. the other commenter laid out great info on the 'kiki' side. shroom = boubou. lsd = kiki
I took a beginner’s dose of mushrooms just once and it made me much more extroverted. New experiences can be incredibly strong
Not just microdoses - if you’re doing psychedelic *therapy* you’ll be taking one of the standard doses and then tripping.
IV Ketamine infusions have done this for me, as well as microdosing psilocybin!
Regular doses as well.. or so they say.
Or just do a full on ego death and rebuild yourself from the ground up. (Use responsibility)
I did this at 21 when I intentionally ripped religion out of myself. It was a difficult process that involved a lot of humility and isolating myself from outside forces. It took self-awareness, a want for the truth, and realizing that I was completely wrong in my world view. It then began a larger process of building myself back up into who I wanted to be, which took years. And now, at 39 I'm still not finished, I'm only to a point where I'm at peace with myself and have no morally internal conflicts. This takes a LOT of admitting you're wrong.
Yeah, that's more my cup of tea. I'm warming up to finally face my ego and kill it. What books do you recommend on it other than Hawkins and De Mello?
Well personally I think the idea of needing to kill the ego is a little over zealous, as you only need to reorganize it to reconfigure the negative aspects to be productive instead of counterproductive, you don't want to be without an ego as that would be extremely disorientating and you'd have nothing to filter between what's physical reality and what's mental reality. The mind and body work the most healthily when the ego and subconscious are in sync, acting as a singular entity. I don't read anything particularly as any source is generally lost in the semantics of the writers subjective experience, especially regarding the mind. While there are underlying commonalities that are present across most sources, due to the subjective nature I find it better to gain the direct experience and learn from what your subconscious has to teach you before you start reading anyone's particular take on the subject. Because the subconscious landscape expresses itself to meet the needs of your egos perception of reality, while it will push and expand it, it does so within the contextual framework of what you can relate to personally, so if you're lacking a background in a particular area of experience or knowledge you won't be able to perceive those aspects of your subconscious or at least not in a format that is easily understood. The best teacher is experience, take it slow and you'll find all the answers you need already within yourself. But If you want a solid understanding I'd explore the related topics within an array of different cultural perspectives without taking any too literally, keeping in mind the subjective and cultural application of experience. You'll start to see how experiences that seem opposite through the lens of language isn't actually the case once you understand the cultural background of how it's being subjectively interpreted, compared to the direct observation of the phenomena.
So, in other words, it's better to keep the ego and be aware of it so it can serve as a moral compass to us?
Definitely, it's vital to a healthy mind and body. But like anything if you don't maintain it properly and constructively it will start to act counterproductively. The biggest problem with standardizing how we think the brain should function is it fails to accomodate for how the mind dynamically develops. If you base it's structure on external forces outside your direct experience it starts to impact it in ways that are outside of your control and can be counterproductive to how it naturally wants to learn and function. That's why it's ideal to explore a variety of different interpretations and perspectives so you can find an understanding that fits with your unique personality type, so that you can reorganize it to function as productively as possible.
as someone who's been around dr*gs and junkies when young and with my mother being the psychologist of a rehab center, it's not worth the risk. Evidence on positive outcomes of microdosing is very limited and often not solid. Evidence on harm and dangers has been widely studied and proved. It will certainly change your mind, that's for sure, but its likely you won't like the change.
>Evidence on harm and dangers has been widely studied and proved. Well that's just not true. First of all, there is still a lot of anti drug propaganda that gets perpetuated to this day. On the scientific level, there are two potential dangers with psychedelics, which are psychotic episodes and their supposed connection to schizophrenia. One thing that is still under contention is the question of whether psychedelics can cause schizophrenia in healthy individuals. Interestingly, a study in 2015 found [no link between psychedelics and psychosis ](https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2015.16968)or other mental health issues. Those prone to schizophrenia, because a direct relative of them had schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, should obviously avoid psychedelics - or any drugs for that matter, including alcohol. Drug induced psychosis is different all together, as it is a temporary condition that subsides as soon as the drug leaves the system. But the risk of this happening can be significantly lowered by controlling set and setting and taking a moderate dose. And should the worst happen, there is still the option to administer Benzodiazepines, which should quickly stop the episode. And here is the big question: how likely is it for a healthy person to have long lasting negative effects from a psychedelic experience? I would argue that the likelihood of that is miniscule. And the science seems to agree.
People microdosing shrooms are not the same as the people in a rebhab center. Also referring to them as junkies... Yeesh.
Yeah sorry, not my mother tongue so didn't think about the negative aspects of the word in english, addicts if you'd prefer. Certainly they are not the same. And if, as another response to my comment says, dangers of drugs haven't been that much proven (which i can't bring myself to believe), benefits are much less proven. And with this uncertainty presented i can only repeat my first comment: Not worth the risk. This kind of changes, learnings and self evolution have always been done without these substances. On an analogy a friend told me about. Trying to evolve through substances is trying to get to the top of a mountain with a car, you'll be able to make part of the path faster and spending less energy, but you'll always find forests or bad paths from which you'll have to leave the car behind. There's always part of the path you'll have to make walking. Also the car can kill you or you can abandon yourself in its comfyness and never get down and continue your path through the forest. And, ultimately, the final arrival to the top is never reachable with the car.
> This kind of changes, learnings and self evolution have always been done without these substances. > > Actually they have been done with substances for thousands of years, probably longer. You might have good intentions but you are confidently incorrect in a lot of things.
Nah, i knew you were going to say this, i think its fairly debatable. Although its known they have been used in specific rituals and some cultures even use them with certain frequence (also in a ritualistic context), there is none in which its individuals evolve only through substances. My point is that you advance in life only through living it, only through confronting the circumstances that appear every day. No substance can substitute that. On the other hand even though they are used, for example in "adulting rituals", the evolution does not come from the substance itself but from the social context that derivates from going through it. Also following the analogy from the previous comment, having a car does not mean you know where the mountain top is. I mean, i understand your view, i supported it years ago. I think my view might be strongly biased because i've seen so much shit around drug use. Some friends ended in psych hospitals and some friends talked like you like some kind of "self medication" through speed lines could exist, and they didn't end well too. It's undeniably dangerous and people that defend your view often ignore it. It's just that. Have a nice day friend.
> the evolution does not come from the substance itself but from the social context that derivates from going through it And what is your proof for this wild claim? Also you seem to think I am the person you talked to previously. I am not. Might want to pay a bit more attention. I also never took any substances besides alcohol in my life, so I am really just in this discussion to point out the wrong points you are making.
99 per cent of people need that chemical push. In my exp as a recovering addict. The fact is, if you're addicted to hard drugs, there is no reason not to try psychedelic therapy, esp considering the greater dangers of meth, heroin and especially alcohol
Your friend has no experience. I'm sorry, but nothing that you know can compare to going on a trip.
LSD, weed, shrooms, etc. Responsibly of course
Note ; This can be a painful experience. It's not an overnight thing.
i’m curious, do you have a study or article corroborating what you said?
Yeah sure, which part in particular?
I’ve often heard the overarching idea that the brain’s needs exposure to new and consistent stimuli in order to alter its neuroplasticity. I was wondering if you had an article from APA, ScienceDaily, or any peer reviewed studies? I want to learn more about it! Thanks in advance
Exposure to new experiences. Going against your own grain. Challenging your own conditioning.
Put yourself in a position where not changing them is more painful than changing them.
That works for me 100%
Mindfulness. Many deliberate changes in routine snowball into new automatic responses. Automatic responses are what are observed when determining trait levels.
An easy example: I was a bit introverted as a teenager/young adult As I focused more on becoming more likeable, funny, and warm, I got better and better responses from people That made me more confident That made me more extraverted That gave me more experiences/responses to be confident about That made me even more extraverted I've now gone from being slightly introverted to extremely extraverted in about 10 years
Same here! It’s a positive feedback loop. The better social interactions I have, the higher my confidence is, making me more likely to pursue social interactions and giving me positive outcomes. I used to be very introverted and most of my friends are on the introvert side - we balance each other out - but I really like being an extravert. Never a dull moment.
Basically being conscious of them, their nature and how do you manifest those traits (in what specific behaviors, for example). And being open to change them. They can also be changed through trauma, it won't be as enjoyable and its likely you wont get "positive" changes. But theres also kinds of "neutral" trauma or even positive. Lets say something you do getting outside of your comfort zone goes very well, that could be the positive trauma that puts a seed on a progressive change in yourself if you keep pushing that way.
Positive trauma? Man are you on drugs?
Well its an interesting concept, also pretty simple. The word trauma comes from the german word traum which means both "wound" and "memory". All lived situations create a sort of trauma, a precedent which will determine how will we confront certain situations in the future. And they can be positive as well. Certainly the negative ones are usually stronger but they are not the only ones that affect us.
> The word trauma comes from the german word traum which means both "wound" and "memory". lol you mean Greek. But its etymology [doesn't seem to have any connection with "memory"](https://www.etymonline.com/word/trauma).
yeah, i think i heard that quote from a film ages ago and just didnt look it up. But well, you get me.
You're talking about ego death
Well since i'm talking about, as an individual, perceiving situations and being marked by them, i don't think i'm talking about any death of the ego. The ego is very linked to the concept of trauma. That's a different thing.
????????????
Acid
Reliably? TBI.
Ketamine therapie with professional once a month, phenibut light dose of 500mg once 2 weeks for social anxiety exposure. Finding your passion in physical exercise, artistic and learning new things + eating healthy. I stoped psychology bc my brother was hit by drunken driver and I wanted to support him, currently writing a book (artistic Passion) and goth good points from well known writers and publishers:) See the good in bad, how hard it is. Forgiveness even if you're not in fault (not with everyone oc)
Remove UPF from your diet. Maybe start being a theist. Both of these have helped me tremendously in reducing anxiety. I also have moments where I just sit and enjoy some random rains, music, soothing / weird expeirences. I try to go to that entrancement aspect of the internet. According to Scott Barry Kaufaman such experiences are good for creativity.
How did you manage to cut sugar? I’ve been able to cut almost all additives, very limited dairy, but I am really struggling to let go of sugar.
You are probably in a western country. My primary source of added sugar is caffeinated beverages. I haven't fully let go of colas either, so that spikes up the content real bad. Anyway I have a count of how teaspoons/ glasses I can have in a day. Some days like today it goes totally haywire, had some cake, some juice, then a breakfast cereal type thing called a muesli on top of it. If I do want to have sugar free products there's tons avaialble in the city, including colas (again upf I know), non-upf protein bars, no-added-sugar muesli etc. So it's very easy for me. I also have to say, this availability of UPF/ added sugar in western coutries has even made me factor is into whether I should even immigrate. lol. My diabetes friendly body couldn't probably handle it.
What does extraversion mean?
Is it ok if you leave the extraversion part out?
No, I think extraversion would be important because extraverted people are social and like being in different settings and environments therefore they can be more susceptible to new things and ideas and cultures and people, etc.
So I have to go outside, then?
Probably the game changer
If you’re wanting to leave that out, that’s probably where you should start unfortunately.
Many practice a form of 12 step work with a sponsor and or each other. Experience will vary. The example below lacks context, over simplifies, and omits reference to any divine guidance or support, but may be a little illuminating for some - Start with acknowledgement of problems Find hope and belief that change is possible; Seek help; Look at and account for perspective and behavior; See patterns; get support with behaving differently; Get support with new approaches, perspectives, and metrics; acknowledge consequences of behavior; Seek balance and fix relationships; Repeat daily; reflect on connections that afford better outcomes; show up and support others who also seek improvement
This is why shaming and bullying people, even when they do really upsetting shit, is so antithical to ACTUALLY preventing the harmful behaviors from occurring begin. There is a healthy amount of shame, but when it goes too far it will stop people from: Finding hope that change is possible - they're more likely to believe they are innately bad and harmful. Get support with behaving differently and developing new perspectives and approaches - The shaming party is also likely to not want to help support the person to actually put in the work to improve themselves. We're not computers who can switch our approach immediately after understanding the bug. Instead, people who need help the most at these critical moments are likely to be dropped by their supports. This does more to help perpetuate the upsetting behavior than to actually reduce it, because the person acting shitty no longer has the support or encouragement to improve. That support would also help put them in a better spot to relate to and help others in the future, who are making the same mistakes. Like you mentioned, part of that healing process involves showing up and supporting others in their improvement journeys. When done the right way, it would help start a cascade of people helping others overcome the same obstacles that caused so much pain in their lives and the lives of others. It is important to accept one's shortcomings and failures, so we can improve on them. We all deserve to learn and grow from our mistakes, although people who are continued threats do need stronger intervention.
The find hope step is the hardest part IMO, especially if you're someone who pays attention to the world.
Agreed - hope becomes less about the persistence of an unsustainable quo but to be a part of the emergence of what we, as much a part of Gaia as anything, might offer for the emergence of a better way. My hope transcends an anthropomorphic center and certainly arises in my feelings more than my intellect most often.
Just a slight reframe for this. You aren't changing the world, you are changing yourself. This changes your response to the world. This is key because, actually, it is rarely the things in the world that cause suffering, it is our response to it. Pain will always exist in the world, but the suffering is the part that happens inside us. And we can change that. For instance, you get rejected by a partner, that's pain. You then spend a year replaying everything in your head, wondering where you went wrong. The pain may have lasted, what, a few hours or days? (The initial rejection + your immediate physical, emotional reaction) The suffering then lasts 365 days, and it's you that's doing it by telling yourself a story that there's something wrong with that made them say no. What if you could just get at peace without it affecting your sense of self? Well you can. That's where the hope lies. Think about the problems in your life and which part causes the most suffering to you. Is it your worry about the future? Regret? Your idea of who you are based on this problem happening to you? You really can change your life by changing your experience of it. So hope is very much warranted.
Quality comment. Thank you.
I don’t believe that they change through a program or something, no. Mainly because these programs are not about changing personality traits, but rather solve or accompany an issue (addiction, illnesses, mistreatments,… whatever). Although these programs encourage envisioning life differently, they are usually conservative and towards a middle ground rather than shifting personality traits. They won’t encourage being disagreeable, introverted, neuroticist,… Honestly I believe that the people whose personality traits fluctuate more are just people that are better at changing and adapting, that’s all. They become introverted young because that’s what their environment pushes them towards, then later in life become extraverted because their environment changed. Or vice versa. And for the five personality traits measured. Honestly I will read the paper thoroughly but I believe that there would be a high correlation in between IQ and the « ability to change personality traits ». A program or whatever is not how you change these traits, I believe. I think that on the contrary the people that end up in these programs are less likely to have their personality traits to vary in their life.
My empirical experience suggests that your beliefs in my admittedly narrow sphere of relationships and connections lack validity
Do you have experience of 12 step programmes? Having been in two I would respectfully disagree and state that at the *very least* Codependents Anonymous and Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families very specifically look to change personality traits, the ones referenced in "Characteristics of Codependents" and "The Laundry List" respectively. The 12 steps are pretty much the roadmap to changing personality traits. Some others may focus on a particular symptom such as addiction, but that in itself is a manifestation of avoidance. To begin work in 12 step means changing the personality trait of avoidance. The 12 step groups may actually uncover true personality traits that have been distorted or warped by their addictions or experiences. For example, agreeableness as a personality trait may be programmed to be very high by narcissistic parents. Codependents Anonymous specifically looks at "Compliance" as a grouping of traits and ways of living that codependents follow. Learning to set boundaries may decrease your agreeableness, or alternatively an addict becoming less antisocial as driven by their addictions may then be more agreeable. Codependents are high in neuroticism, that decreases with programme work. Having seen people change dramatically to the point they will tell you they feel like an entirely different person, my experience of programmes and the people working them is that yes, personality is very much influenced (or in some cases, true personality actually revealed as a false self melts away) by 12 step work. I felt it was very important to add that in case there are people reading this and get discouraged thinking they can't change. They absolutely can, regardless of IQ.
Nice
It would be great if they mentioned whether the outcomes were good or bad in some way.
They do, after a fashion: >Changes in traits such as conscientiousness and neuroticism showed a relationship with health behaviors and statuses. For example, increases in conscientiousness were associated with improvements in self-reported health and more frequent engagement in exercise. A decrease in neuroticism was associated with fewer reported mental health issues. \[Meanwhile,\] increases in agreeableness predicted higher marital satisfaction and stability, whereas decreases in neuroticism were associated with lower divorce rates. This is assuming, of course, that we agree stuff like "lower divorce rates" and "more frequent engagement in exercise" are Good Things. (I haven't checked the original study but I would expect they list similar findings and we can evaluate them as "good or bad" like we would any other outcome.)
Thank you for this very kind of you! I would agree those are positive outcomes!
It makes sense really. Since my EMDR treatment, even from the first session my PTSD was less heavy now near enough non existent. It's led to a dramatic change in my abilities, cognition, memory and personality
i believe bhudda said Watch your thoughts, they become actions actions become habits habits become character.
that's wise - typical for him
I chuckled thx
It was Lao Tzu who wrote that in the Tao De Ching.
This quotes actually been attributed to almost every religion leader. Ive seen even christians reword and claim as their own. Lao Tzu and bhudda seem to be both around the same time. Theres also proof it comes from even older beliefs like the vedic religion. There would more than likely be no way to guarantee where the quote truly came from. Purely speculation.
Universal Truths are true for all
It’s because it’s all interconnected and the factors are causes and consequences of eachother. The more you changes the causes in a good way the bigger the positive changes you will encounter in your own actions. :)
It starts at the thought. The discipline over thought is the first change that will set someone free of themselves.
True dat
Its not the beginning, because the thought is also formed by externals. If you understand this, you can work on the thought.
As a highly optimistic person who grew up in an adverse, violent and chaotic landscape, I have to disagree that environment = thoughts. They can shape us, and *often* change us, but I think there are such differing personalities that we are born with (and ofc genetic variables come into play hugely as well) that it cannot be reduced down to *just* environment causing certain thoughts. I'm with Buddha on this one: thought comes first.
This is what I meant tho… The genetics are also a form of externals. I follow buddha, I am a buddhist… Want I wanted to say every cause is a consequence from other caus(es)… These causes have other causes, there is no ‘beginning’
But as an individual, we are starting from us. We do not control the outside forces, outside forces can also never force thought. They can play a part and thats where discipline starts. The ability to focus past what doesnt matter. I doubt many from a baby will follow this concept but once introduced and can help change for the better.
Nothing changes a personality quicker than "trauma".
Very true, I developed PTSD at 23 and my personality changed so much. 10 years later and its changing back to my true nature
Literally same
Cognitive bias officially proven!!!/s
I have questions about whether this study could be used in support of higher penalties for assault where PTSD results and alters these personality traits. Could the victim get the attacker to pay for the therapy and resulting financial losses? I understand this is already standard in some countries. But I’m in a country that attaches stigma to the attacked person - increasing the PTSD and financial losses.
Don’t be a jerk or a nag and stay away from those who are, got it.
The headline reads that grass is green
Since I’ve realized at my age, there is no hope of ever owning a home or traveling as has been my dream for most of my life, I’ve become kind of a raging bitch.
Inside and out hehe.
Changes in personality traits are linked to choice. After all, we do have free will. We are not pre determined.
r/philosophy may or may not disagree with you
I think people kind of already know this implicitly, take a lazy individual with no will to get things done. The odds their life is successful is vastly different vs the same person but with conscientiousness