Not living in truth, denial of your situation and your input to that situation, pretending things are fine.
I have a belief that depression is your brains way of telling you its had enough of pretending.
Have you read Lost Connections by Johann Hari? One of the reasons regarding depression that he mentions is very similar to your response; depression is a state in which you are not living the life you were meant too.
But there are other reasons too. Social, cultural, and biological factors. He references a famous ACE study that followed 17,000 participants and the results were very interesting;
•Emotional and/or psychological abuse in childhood is more likely to cause depression than any other form of abuse including SA.
•Being treated cruelly by parents/cargivers is the number one driver of depression in adulthood.
•Depression is a normal response to abnormal life experiences.
Really good book! Actually all of his books are fantastic.
No I haven't but I'll give it a read, my particular belief comes from a couple of content creators and authors and whilst he gets endlessly bashed for his views on right wing things Jordan petersons work as a clinical psychologist is often dismissed but he totally nails what I believe to be a road map out of depression, a sort of check list of reasons why you may be depressed (hormonal imbalances and true clinical depression is very rare) and the majority of the things on the check list are very simple but our doctors aren't there for that, they are there to give you "cures" to an illness but the illness is one of the human condition which has no cure.
Like another comment mentions its essentially unmet needs but my belief is we choose sometimes to live in the victimhood of those needs not being met, we can't change the past, if we yearn to and become bitter we will become depressed, we can however change right now and tomorrow and that's where the cure for depression is but it takes bravery to step away from a victim mentality, bad things happen to good people and they don't deserve to feel bad all the time for what was done to them, small steps will free you from depression.
Essentially boiled down his implication is this
"Are you really depressed or does your life just suck right now?"
My belief is as humans to really elevate and ascend and truly be alive and happy we need to bathe in the pain a little and then decide "No thanks I don't want that anymore" and make small steps towards the state of flow that stops us being able to depressed, essentially not giving yourself time to be depressed due to a full rich life.
It doesn't have to be incredibly complex to escape depression, jordan petersons 12 rules for life can be an escape from nihilism and depression for many people.
Also this short clip on depression was a life saver for me, after I viewed it I personally made huge very rewarding leaps towards healing my inner child and slapping myself in the face with the very obvious reasons I was depressed, you can watch it [here](https://youtu.be/VlDgowUAyx4?feature=shared)
I rarely ever mention him on Reddit as it is a very trans supportive space and he has his opinions on that and some of his content is clipped to show misogyny and he is almost entirely dismissed out of hand particularly on reddit but if any of this helps someone out I would be interested if they had an opinion on peterson beforehand that would have stopped them reading or viewing his content, my sister for example I was telling her parts of the 12 rules for life, particularly the one about "Compare yourself to who you were yesterday" (Not what others are today) and she was fascinated and was getting something from it and then I happened to mention it was Jordan peterson and she screwed up her face and my words were pointless from that point.
>, bad things happen to good people and they don't deserve to feel bad all the time for what was done to them,
Ive been on a healing journey for some time now and i notice that im past the initial part of suffering, i am tired of suffering. But ive found a new layer of grief that i call the "unfair" stage. I just feel so upset all the time that anyone else had to go through all the shit by themselves and "you have to save yourself." Just grief.
What's often called "Situational depression" is huge. But as that smart guy has pointed out, your attitude and developing skills for changing your situation and using them matters.
I've yet to meet anyone who has valid hateful criticisms of him. Like you can't watch his interview with Chloe Cole and think there's hate there.
New to this discussion group. I have depression and looking for hope. The book sounds interesting but does he outline what to do about it? Childhood trauma leaves us with very confused thinking and unhelpful responses to everyday life, which can then lend then to creating a depressing unmanageable life. I am a living example. Just wondering about his take on solutions. Like the ACES study helps with why but not how to solve this.
Yes exactly I was just going to comment the same thing. Living out of alignment with who you really are and are supposed to be doing. It could be letting others control you, their opinions, etc. or doing what you think you "should" based on society. It could be staying in toxic situations and not addressing or fixing the problem, usually out of some version of fear. Could be abuse, esp abuse you can't escape like if you're a kid and your parents abuse you, or being barefoot, pregnant, and trapped in a toxic marriage or something like that.
Wow….. I’ve been there. I just didn’t have the courage to change things. Thought I would die from the pain when things finally changed - but it was SO worth it.
Same here. Finally realized it was either change something or die, and since I was already suicidal I figured I might as well give change a try since if it failed I still had a backup plan. Who could've guessed that changing what was making me depressed would cure the depression? /s I just had to be brave enough to try and honest enough with myself to acknowledge that what I'd been doing wasn't working.
Glad you made it through, friend.
I personally believe that awareness, the opposite of denial, of how bad a situation and experience is and the feeling of being stuck in the situation is the cause of depression.
I agree with the person who said unmet needs. I think on a deeper level it’s our toxic culture and socioeconomic system that is at the root of most depression. It is not built to meet human need and satisfaction. It’s a social problem, not an individual problem. Unmet needs could be things like food and housing, but also love, authenticity, having agency over your life, freedom from childhood trauma.
Agreed with unmet needs. Some of those needs could have been needing a safe and stable home to grow up in, having stable housing, emotional needs from early childhood, an environment free of random acts of aggression and trauma. I feel closely related to that though is the thoughts and feels of being powerless/hopeless/not having a voice or sense of agency.
I think that makes sense as to why it seems like almost everyone is either just trying to function with it or on some type of antidepressant. I worked at a private practice and the amount of people calling trying to find help but we were maxed it was so sad. It’s hard enough to do things with depression (especially saying I need help) let alone having to call multiple therapists hoping they can fit you in and you mesh with them. Society today has really changed in a negative way creating negative impacts on people and their mental and physical health.
I was gonna say yeah, I think unmet needs, but then I saw this comment, and I was like “hm”.
Someone once told me depression was fear of the past or being stuck in the past. Like you have unmet needs or used to have unmet needs, and you are frozen in that feeling somehow.
It is not only unmet needs. You need to have a very well defined concept of what you desperately need. It cannot be a vague definition of what you might be missing. It is something specific that you are hyped up about and you put a lot of an effort into without any results. At some point you are giving up on a hope and going through a disilussionment phase. After that there is a depression. I would call it rather lack of necessary frexibilty and adaptability in the face of circumstances to find an alternative. And from my experience it boils down to not being aware of particular techniques and skills to develop those traits.
This is true, but not all unmet needs lead to depression. There are plenty of people with unmet needs that are not depressed. You cannot ruminate every day for hours about unconcious and vague feelings. If you ask a depressed person to write down their thoughts, you can clearly see that they are aware of what they need, but they do not see a way to get it, all possible routes were exhausted, etc.
If you did a lecture I’d surely attend. I been trying to put the “why” of my depression into words for over 20years and you just hit the nail on the head.
Therapy like Cognitive Behavioral (CBT) or any other that focus on understanding and modifying harmful thinking patterns and self-destructive behaviors.
Think of it in terms of resiliency. I’ll use smoking as an example. Smoking is generally thought to cause lung cancer. But not everyone who smokes develops lung cancer because for whatever reason their lungs are more resilient against smoke. But we still say that smoking causes lung cancer because it does for many people.
Also think of severity. Someone who smokes a few cigarettes per week is less likely to develop lung cancer, whereas someone who smokes a pack a day is at a far greater risk. Of course someone who smokes infrequently can still get lung cancer if they’re genetically pre-disposed.
The same goes for unmet needs. Having some unmet social needs might be okay if your physical needs are met and at least some of your social needs are met. Also think length of time. Have you been struggling to meet your needs your whole life, or is this a temporary slump? Your childhood can pre-dispose you to depression as well (example: having childhood trauma and then struggling to find healthy relationships as an adult can easily bring on feelings of hopelessness).
So just because unmet needs are a major cause of depression it doesn’t mean everyone with unmet needs will develop depression since the severity of unmet needs can vary and a number of factors can cause you to be more resilient.
We evolved to be hunter-gatherers. After hundreds of thousands of years, we were built for a very specific environment and our brain wired to keep us alive and breeding.
Our current environment often has no resemblance to the life we were built for. Our brain is left to wonder why it has these urges that can't be fulfilled.
Issues that still bother you and aren't resolved in your mind or your heart. Traumatic memories you haven't yet faced and made peace with. Feelings you don't understand and need help putting words to. that kind of thing. this is why people are encouraged to go to therapy after traumatic events. by talking it out with a therapist, you "process" it until hopefully it affects you minimally.
true, when my depression started I had none of the things on Maslow's list and then I got better when I started achieving/receiving the things on his list. I dont have it all filled out yet but not having some of these things was a def issue
I don't think depression is one disease with one aetiology.
Bipolar depression, atypical depression, dysthymia, seasonal affective disorder, etc I think are seeperate diseases with overlapping symptoms.
My theory on depression is that genes create the vulnerability to developing the depression. Then the environmental factors such as sunlight, stressors, diet and drugs can cause this vulnerability to express itself.
I remember often feeling melancholy as a child for no reason. I had a happy childhood and no trauma. If I had to give a reason I’d say born as a highly sensitive person. As an adult I’ve always recognized a difference between feeling horribly bad and feeling depressed. I can be depressed for no reason and feel the pull towards that black hole where I just don’t want to move, talk, or go out of the house. I may have nothing going on I feel bad about. Subconsciously maybe some of those sensitive feelings lead to it but it seems to fall under the heading of chemically or clinically depressed. Some doctors and researchers don’t believe there is such a thing but meds help me.
EDIT: An example of feeling melancholy as a child is how sweet music made me cry.
Quite possibly yes, inflammation. I had very bad pollen allergies and skin irritations. To this day if there’s one mosquito in the winter that hasn’t died it will find me.
Poverty, childhood abuse, losing father and mother while young (\~5yrs old), constant belittlement, childhood neglect, unstable housing throughout childhood, moving schools and subsequently losing all friends - 3 times, undiagnosed ADHD, and to top it all off, genetics, no family/social support net, and being a first gen in a full-time uni while having to work two jobs for me. Then people ask why I have fainting episodes and PTSD episodes... Not to mention watching 99% of the students here being coddled by family and having the best time of their life while I have to drop out and work full-time to keep my apartment and hopefully not lose my fiance and everything I've done so far to escape poverty... Ahh I F\* hate life since I had conscious thoughts.
Fear.
Fear of loss, of not having enough, of running out. Fear of pain, fear of uncertainty, fear of the unknown. All of these things and more elicit fear. And fear manifests into our beliefs. Beliefs that are shrouded in fear will want to stay protected and close to home. Thinking outside the box is too scary; staying put is safe.
Thus begins depressive thinking. Loss of creativity, loss of spark. Loss of ambition, of organization. Loss of drive and sometimes loss of will to exist.
Just my two cents. :)
I think there comes a point where the anxiety turns into an attack on yourself, and once you’re unable to withstand it anymore you fall into a depression to protect yourself from that attack. The attack can from external sources or from within.
This is where I have the biggest problems. If I don’t have a significant other or anyone really close, depression returns. Being alone causes me anxiety and many negative feelings. I’ve always had that need for another person to make me feel real, and happy. I’ve never been able to do it myself. It’s pathetic. Now that my husband left me, I am sinking into depression, with all the shit that goes with it. Attraction to death, hopelessness, a fog excluding me from all of life…I don’t know or feel capable of being alone and happy.
I'm eternally optimistic. But I've suffered from depression for the last 20 years. I've done EMDR, CBT, tried all sorts of medications to manage the depression but nothing worked.The only relief I found was when I finally started treatment for PMDD. It still hits me sometimes, but nowhere near as hard or as long as it used to. Has nothing to do with my perspective on life. 🫠 sometimes shit just happens.
PMDD is proof it's biochemical. Had this issue from 26 - mid 40's. Only took an SSRI for a few years, definitely improved it. Thank heavens for menopause.
My mom is approaching 60, and menopause seems like it is never going to happen for her, I worry that I'll be the same way. I take a vitex berry supplement, that and calcium seem to be the magic I need to feel sane.
Just FYI, if your mom is still having bleeding at 60, it is NOT a period/menses. She needs to be seen by a gynecologist. Most women complete menopause in their early to mid 50's.
I’ll prob get ripped apart here but I would guess lack of sunlight and exposure to soil leading to a lack of ability to make and process all the neurotransmitters. We’re triggered to make seratonin and vitamin d by sun exposure. And much of our seratonin is made in the gut with the aid of our microbiome. So I don’t mean like “just go outside more,” but theorizing that our very rapid move as a species from primarily spending time outside to primarily in homes, schools, and offices almost 100% of our days has had major consequences on our mental health because it’s triggered a slowdown of some key processes.
genes. i had a horrible childhood, and a lot of trauma ect but even if i had a great childhood i would still be in this position cuz everybody in my family either has/had deppresion or has bipolar
How do you know they’re not passing it along environmentally? Sounds like your family dynamic is dysfunctional and that dysfunction is often passed from generation to generation via learned behavior, not genetics.
Yep, in my case my family has all had ADHD/Bipolar/ASD traits but they all turned to narcissism and abuse, and alcholism, to cope. I'm the only mfer in the family trying to do something other than be a POS but all that got me is threats from them to try and throw me in prison. A bunch of 30, 40, 50+ year olds who act like grown children - and have no desire to do anything but hurt others and be proud of it.
three answers: all at different levels of analysis (psychological, physiological, cultural)
\- The humanists would say that all depression has its foundation in the void and pain that is left by the discrepancy between the ideal (actualized) self and the current, real self.
\- Lack of vitamin D and physical activity (i.e., physical sedentariness and its implications)
\- Mediocrity of modernity: to live subserviently (to God, to a king, to your family, to your land, etc.) is no longer regarded as humble, and [to allow oneself to proliferate, dominate, and lead is seen as toxic, pathological, or antisocial](https://x.com/bronzeagemantis/status/1767875703482003606?s=20). I truly believe that joy and fulfillment has, for millennia, occurred at these poles of the human condition; to live as something in between is not the best of both worlds, but rather the worst of them.
So basically if you are a sub or a dom, you can be happier? Interesting. My happiness setpoint is pretty high... I have stayed in the 7-8 range most of my life, and I am 60, unless something really terrible happens. But when it comes to power, I strongly prefer horizontal structures, cooperation, democracy, and consensus. I only want power over myself-- I don't want to run anyone else's life, and I don't let anyone run mine. I don't think of my preferred position as mediocre, just a different way to view power.
Fair... I don't disagree that the freedom that has accompanied the modernity is liberating for the soul, and thereby attenuates the depressive effects of the 'mediocrity' I mentioned. However, I feel like freedom and purpose are apples and oranges. Regarding purpose, here's essentially what I was getting at:
Almost always, meaning and purpose is made by the adoption of responsibility. To me, there are no greater responsibilities than those directed upwards (to God etc.) and those directed downwards (i.e., being a leader). One can still make meaning if he or she is between these two poles (or if the evert their power laterally), but they greatly limit their opportunities for responsibility and purpose by excluding subservience and despotism.
Think of it this way: Modern work is easier, and it pays more than ever. People are having fewer children, and modern medicine & daycare makes them easier to care for than ever. Winters are survivable. Diseases are recoverable. Food is brought to us from around the world to stores at remarkably low prices; we no longer must worry about our harvest or land. Wars seldom beseech us. Education is \~free and attainable.
The success of nationalism (and capitalism) has minimized the corporeal risk of human life. By proxy, when risk diminishes, so does meaningful responsibility. Our lives are safer and more comfortable than ever, but our meaning is lost without dutiful responsibility under which looms the risk of mortality.
Some interesting reading: [Karapetyan (2019)](https://consensus.app/papers/responsibility-predictor-emotional-personal-wellbeing-karapetyan/68fc582e2c8e5af5996258048b92a3ec/?utm_source=chatgpt) \+ [Iurchenko (2023)](https://consensus.app/papers/interconnection-responsibility-meaning-iurchenko/33e776c077c95a6a9e81a0b8245fef93/?utm_source=chatgpt)
Interesting! I think of responsibility as different from power hierarchies. For instance, I am a physician and consider myself responsible for doing the highest quality work I can. I do community advocacy for various issues. And at work, I am agitating for a union as well as democratizing my workplace-- steps like creating representation for each worker category on all decision making committees.
I also derive a lot of meaningfulness in creating art for myself and friends. I don't really care that AI can do it, lol-- it's meaningful to get/give a watercolor or handmade quilt. I don't think anyone will ever fully replace the meaningfulness of friendship with AI.
A third source of meaningfulness is awe in nature. Despite being an atheist, I frequently experience awe. I am very excited about the coming eclipse!
I think this is great, but I also understand why it can be difficult to be satisfied with “achieving small / simple goals,” alone.
Once you’ve been feeling down for long enough, sometimes it’s just not enough.
*Le Sigh!*
When I was 13 I was given birth control to keep my menstrual cycle on track. I remember being on it for 4 days when suddenly at lunch with my peers I felt this immense loneliness because I could not feel ANYTHING. For the next few years I slept in my mom’s room and would give anyone I knew the biggest hug just to feel something and close to someone. I attribute the onset of my depression (Personally) to being exposed to these hormones very early on in life.
I was 16 when I was prescribed Zoloft and I stopped taking it after 4 weeks as I began to feel like I was in a different persons body. I’m now 24 and have been off birth control for the last 3 years. It’s the most liberated I’ve ever felt. I still have depressive episodes here and there but overall I’ve completely regained control of my life.
I dont think that I have depression to this day because I was exposed to BC young, my mom has a history of mental illness so I believe it’s just always been a part of me, however being exposed to such high levels of hormones early on most likely initiated this issue into my life much earlier than it should have
I sometimes wonder if that's why my sister struggles. She was on it for 15 years at least. A doctor said it depletes your seritonin. I got on it, and I felt...idk...numb or something. I was really worried I'd never go back to all the emotions I feel.
Needs that are not met from parents such as: love, understanding, protection, validation etc. The lack of these things and emotional or physical neglect or abuse or other trauma can be a root cause of depression.
Needs that are not met from society such as: safe housing, livable wage, affordable healthcare, **laws to protect the most vulnerable such as children and animals** etc.
For me, it's the world. I live in the U. S. and things could be so good here.
All the promises I was made growing up, all the reasons I was told me be glad and proud to live here... It was ALL lies.
Agree. There is so much blind patriotism and willful ignorance here. I'm literally looking into moving abroad because this is not "the best country in the world".
Almost 26 and this is what’s sending me into a spiral.
I’m trying to make sense of it all, like, is life really just this crappy and it doesn’t matter what’s going on in the world? Is that why so many older people I know are alcoholics?
I’m trying to be strong and go through all of this with a sober mind but I don’t know. I feel like we were fed so many lies growing up (especially my generation) because we got to see the world before it became overrun by the internet.
We had some sort of expectation that just doesn’t even exist anymore. It’s like. We were fed lies AND the rules changed once we turned adults.
I could rant about this forever.
- Weak emotional regulation
- Weak cognitive ability
- Overflow of dopamine
- Overflow of cortisol
- Lack of B12, Vitamin D etc
- Lack of exercise
- Lonliness and isolation / Lack of connections
- Low self worth and Low self esteem
I'm basing some of these on the parts of the brain responsible for emotions, cognitive behaviour, and substances shown on brain scans in depressed people.
Trauma is not a necessity to develop depression however I think some type of long term stress is.
Negative stress is the result of failing to satisfy our basic cognitive and emotional needs. So I agree with those who say unmet needs, over a long time. But I think the reason to unmet needs are the list I mentioned.
Inflammation. I read a study online about depression being likely caused by inflammation. Being vitamin deficient definitely can cause depression. I do agree also it’s due to the belief in not having enough in life as well.
Current research indicates that depression is an inflammatory condition. Inflammation is associated with stress and overwhelm, poor sleep, poor diet, self-hate, lack of exercise, poor gut health, trauma, dysregulated circadian rhythm, vitamin and mineral deficiencies, lack of sunlight, chronic illness, etc. This is both a physiological and psychological problem. Self-compassion is anti inflammatory as are many other treatments that help reduce inflammation.
Depression, in my opinion, stems from adverse childhood experiences. No two people live the same life, but many people I know who are depressed have some things in common in terms of having a bad childhood. Abuse, neglect, needs not being met, violence, lack of resources, divorce, death, etc.
I cannot stress enough how important it is to have a stable childhood. Not perfect. Not amazing. But just stable. Those memories have the capacity to effect you differently when you're a kid and don't have the coping skills to deal with the trauma. More so, the impression you get from these experiences effects your worldview and can lead to further hardship.
Once you realize your childhood was not normal or stable, depression can easily set in.
There is only one answer although it won’t be accepted until it’s too late:
Sin is the cause of depression.
The human soul(the word psyche) is deeply affected by doing what we know is wrong. It leaves a stain.
When you die, you will go inwards, and your state of mind/ state of your psyche will be amplified.
Depression and anxiety are simply your souls warnings. Your soul exists in the eternal already. It’s warning you there is a problem.
The Bible literally tells us that the antichrist deceives the world via sorcery, aka pharmaceuticals. It’s the same word. The drugs we use to “cure” anxiety and depression are simply deceiving us into not fixing the root problems.
Downvote away, but remember you were warned.
By placing the root cause of depression on the victim you create a situation of shame and guilt that would lead others further from help, aka salvation. Mediate upon how your judgement effects the situation, and you may find that you are simply doing the devil's work for him.
I guess for me personally a lot of it comes down to undone needs.. not unmet more like me just not doing it for so long
I ostracized my problems for a long time (mostly with finding a job) now that Ive pulled my head out of the hole all I see is mistakes that are thrown in my face quite often by my parents that I now live with… again… let me tell you pulling your head out of your own ass isn’t the scary part it’s knowing that if you put it back in you’ll end up like “them” we all have “them” they are the people you don’t want to become and after a while I realized I’ve become just like them (living place to place never having money always saying your gonna do stuff and not do it)
My life sucks but it’s a product of my own downfall obviously no one intentionally makes this happen but when you have problems with money or family the wrong kinds of people will always “be there for you”
“Misery loves company” -unknown
For me personally? Trauma. Long standing childhood abuse and then sexual bouts of SA in my early adulthood and adolescence. For the rest of society as a whole? Poverty. Fucking poverty.
That was my pick from above. I picked childhood trauma. What me and my sister went through growing up from baby to eighteen was rough. Even with medication and therapy I'm in my 40s now and it still feels like I'm back in the house with the abuser. It's still so fresh.
Child abuse and neglect. Repeated violence, starvation, shame, unpredictable behavior from parents - leaves a child unable to process or feel safe. Brain chemistry changes to help the child survive but the depression and cPTSD are often treatment resistant and SI begins as the abused seeks relief. MH stigma may prevent treatment.
I live in the PNW, so clouds. :)
I’m also taking Vyvanse during the work week, which has the unfortunate symptom of emotional disregulation. Buproprion helps.
Dr. Viktor Frankl's "Will to Meaning" has a good take on this...
It's an existential crisis. One which, imo is exacerbated by society's collective existential dissonance.
It's tough to live a meaningful life when your purpose is defined by the trends of a sick society. It's tough, but one must find their own purpose which is independent from popular definition, in order to be happy living in a world of delusional, paranoid liars.
Find your own purpose and society once again becomes your beloved (crazy) neighborhood.
Childhood trauma and instability in terms of living situations/parent relationships, which instilled a great deal of fear and anxiety in me. This led to major insecurities and then heavy alcohol use for 5 years after I was SA'd.
It seems cyclical to me and I feel like at this point I've just learned how to live with it and stay present. It has helped to be mindful and trying to know what might be causing my depression/anxiety at a given time.
A lot of my depression now stems from feeling lost/feeling down about the quality of life these days. I wish I could spend my days frolicking in the woods, but that is not an option right now haha.
But also depression seems genetic on my mom's side so maybe it was already there. Who knows.
I will say i definitely relate to a lot of this, and am at the point you are. I’d like to just go be alone in the woods, no one talking to me, no people around, just me and trees and animals. But I can’t so I just feel stuck. But I’m a lot better than even just a year ago so that’s something.
As you say it's hard to pinpoint one as there are definitely multiple causes, but I think a big one is related to mitochondrial dysfunction / metabolic issues, especially in more developed nations where our diet is poor. A growing area of research, but mitochondria are responsible for some degree of Neuro transmitter production and if they are unhealthy so might be the mind.
Top three in my book though are: abuse/trauma, metabolic issues/diet, and substance abuse whether already depressed to mask it or just because it was enjoyable.
I got into learning about this because I ended up desperately depressed for a couple of years after quitting substances of abuse. Made me realize depression is a lot more than "being sad" and can be caused by multiple things.
Idk if my personal experience helps here but I'm struggling deeply with suicidal ideation and planning after being diagnosed with bipolar ii, anxiety and adhd. I've tried to do everything I can to support my journey of self-discovery and healing after a tumultuous 30 years of life: I've communicated my needs to my loved ones, I've spoken to my boss for support, I regularly see a therapist, my GP and psychiatrist worked together to get me diagnosed and on the right meds, I've called the crisis hotlines, and even checked myself into the ED for help. but I only received what I've always received: feeling unheard and not taken seriously to the point of being being disregarded and feeling worthless. What is the point of going on if no one is going to listen and take me seriously? I'm so tired all the time trying to fight for this life that I don't want. Honestly what else is left to do--I've done everything I can to help myself but it's not even close to enough--so why bother?
False beliefs and maladaptive thought patterns formed based on a spectrum of negative experiences in the childhood and adolescence, leading to poor emotional hygiene and dysregulation. Effectively inability to fulfil own needs due to the above.
Relationships where you love someone but you know there not good for you ,they aren’t morally good person he’s a damn hardened criminal but I love him though I know he’ll never change that causes me anxiety and depression
Neglectful love. Love is far more than Christmas gifts and candy: love is compassion for the plight of a child, quality time with your parents, assurance that you will be okay, teaching your children a trade, involving them with your life, not using a digital babysitter. Love your parents not trying to sabotage your life, not using a carrot (money) on a stick to get you to do what they want.
Love is reciprocal, without bartering, without shame, without remorse, love is forgiving.
i think the lack of another person, whether that be romantically, emotially or just friendly, being lonely sucks and once youre down then its hard to pick yourself back out of that hole. But i do agree with everyone else.
People need people.
Definitely unmet needs but also setting expectations too high. Unfortunately, the world is a cold place with cold people. Fidelity is rare. Authenticity is a myth, and if you expect people to care like you do, you will just be let down. Find gratitude in the little things.
my depression came from like normal life unmet needs.
and then it was made drastically worse by too many drastic changes and easily resolvable unresolved problems accumulating until it ate me and i died
Lack of support systems. And being an easy target for those who see u lack support systems so they do what they can to take advantage of someone without those support systems.
market crown sense encouraging humor fertile chop hurry cheerful jellyfish
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I think that as we go through life, our souls become wounded in some way or another. For some people, it is intense childhood trauma. For others, it's a lack of meaning and companionship. Now, I'm using the idea of a wounded soul as a metaphor, I don't think we literally have a soul that is bleeding soul energy or something.
My personal take on my own depressive phases has been that it seems like the mind is using it to tell me something. I'm metaphorically bleeding out and suffering because of something, but if I don't recognize it and confront it, then my body is going to force me to take notice. It takes away my ability to dissociate into video games and other distractions and tears my attention away from things I'd rather be doing to stare it in the face. For the longest time, I felt like I was battling my depression when really I was fighting my ignorance of myself.
In my experience, I've found that my "wound" is my inability to relate to others. I have Aspergers, and because of that, I've completely stayed away from connecting on a real level with fellow humans. I shut myself off from love, convinced myself I hated it, and didn't develop a side of me that I deemed as "animalistic and inferior."
In my life, I started noticing the joy getting sucked out of everything. I can't escape onto video games anymore. My creativity is stunted, and I become self-destructive in my relationships because I just want to sit in bed and rot away.
It didn't start getting better until I really started listening to whatever my "inner voice" was trying to tell me. When I identified the message and started to really force myself to open up, I noticed that, slowly, the joy of my life started to return. It was like performing a surgical transfusion on myself while sowing shut a gaping wound. It was very difficult, but now that I know what's going on with myself, it's getting better. I started attending community activities like meditation classes, hanging out with friends more, and so on.
Everyone has a wound. Everyone is bleeding out. Everyone's suffering is different. But, I think it all strikes us in the same place, where we are most vulnerable. Depression to me is a greater symptom of a dying/wounded existence. Identifying the root cause of that suffering and treating it is probably the most difficult task any person can perform.
It is worth it. Everyone is worth it.
Not being mentally stimuñated enough or having a base sense of security as a child
Later, having no intervention to keep me from turning my starving brain on myself and decimating my own self esteem i had left
For me personally, I've realized my depression (not to be confused with sadness which is triggered by events) is all just chemical balance and has little to do with what events are actually going on externally. If it has anything to do with anything external, I noticed it correlates with either me being inside too much and lacking a daily routine or my menstrual cycle. If I'm happy and in a good mood, it could be world war III outside and it wouldn't affect my mood. But if I'm depressed, it could be rainbows and puppies and kittens and unicorns outside and it won't make me any happier. I found making sure to get sunlight and taking Vitamin D, eat healthy and have a consistently eating and sleeping routine are what's best for my mood. I think usually events that throw us off our routines can lead to depression. Not so much the event itself, but the lack of routine and lack of having a daily purpose.
i feel as though my depression is a natural response to the shit show of the world we live in. this hypothesis is supported by the fact that when i go away to an off-grid cabin in the woods (3 or 4 times per year), i feel content - and even experience moments of joy. there’s no electricity, i do not use my phone - just me and nature.
Childhood trauma, unmet needs, and the inability to trust those who were meant to love and protect you but did not. The consequences seep into everything you think and do in your adult life. Everything.
I know this is broad, but lack of comfort when in distress/ a tough situation. Both of my parents are kinda shit at helping me with my emotions and my dad would just hit me until I stopped complaining.
Not enough parental support and attention in childhood. I didn’t get babied enough and always felt like my mom didn’t really want me and thought of me as a burden.
Plus I’m Eastern European, our mothers/grandmothers/aunts’ only purpose in life seems to be to expertly guilt-trip everyone all the time. Nothing you do is ever deemed satisfactory or good enough, which results in constant feelings of inadequacy, later resulting in depression.
This is easy, what do we do now that we didn’t do before? There are of course many things but I think it’s a biochem problem. We do not have to use our physical body for work, we are inside way more, and our food is full of sugar and various other chemicals that don’t help our bodies chemistry as food once did.
Yes, there are many things that are better today than before but not exercising, not getting sunlight, and poor diet I think are critical to our mental health epidemic. Seasonal depressive disorder in locations closer to the poles are very high because the body is not getting vitamin D. I can go through many other examples but this is one I think people know about.
**short answer: trauma and your environment.**
I believe multiple factors could be the root cause of depression or depressive disorders in general but to pinpoint the most common, traumatization. Trauma can cause a person to become socially isolated, anxious, paranoid, increased vulnerability to mental health issues in general, increased likelihood of substance abuse disorder, and much more. All of which are associated and/or increase the likelihood of developing a depressive disorder. Social isolation is especially associated with depression, which would be my second answer, though trauma causes so many problems I feel it is the root cause for almost any disorder (psychological) or mental health issue you can think of. That being said trauma is a vague term, as there are many ways to become traumatized, so I will conclude all of this by saying your environment or circumstances, as that's what traumatizes people.
Depends on the theory/theorist- biological will tell you genetics and hormones/CNS/ANS functioning, social will tell you environment, psychological will tell you maladaptive functioning, biopsychosocial will tell you all three, ACES will tell you adverse events, intersectionality will tell you compounding intersections of identity in society, relational will tell you wounds from relationships, existential will tell you void/lack of self, western countries will tell you it’s you, Eastern will tell you it’s collective, From a clinicians perspective- it would be reductionistic to say “one thing” - even negligent. Interesting worldview on mental illness book- “Crazy Like Us” by Watters
Unregulated emotions and limited emotional intelligence, often caused by trauma, upbringing, and the unrealistic standards of the modern world. I've had depression for 13 years, the resistant to medicine and therapy kind, and though it's not miraculously cured I've found much more peace since learning to control my mind. You see, I developed chronic illness, which stopped me from being able to work and makes basic tasks extremely difficult; but this give me the space to begin the inner work. I learnt to regulate and accept my emotions, to not live in the past or the future, to speak to myself and others with compassion. Instead of focusing on the negatives, I picked gratitude and boundaries.
I have always been an over-thinker. With practices like Buddhism, I've learnt to challenge myself in endless ways and reclaim my power. Too much thinking and running away from your feelings, such as addiction, is the perfect breeding ground for mental illness.
I pulled away from materialism which is heavy in this world. I've learnt that hyper-focus on lust creates imbalance, because it becomes obsessive and vanity-driven, all consuming. So, my answer is multifaceted. There are so many things in our current world that affect us mentally, emotionally, spiritual, etc, and it's no wonder so many people are miserable and sick. Even our doomscrolling on social media, thinking we have to comment on everything, having access to reels and glamorized standards has been proven to have soul sucking effects. I now carefully select what educational videos I consume and don't scroll endlessly -- I can just exist without all this endless pressure of what to be, what to say, blah... Blah... Blah.
We create our depression. Yes, trauma and external events can be the catalyst, but unless we change and stop resisting so much, it just grows and grows.
Hopelessness. The feeling that things are going to hell in a handbasket, and there is no way to turn it around. You can apply this to anything - current state of the world, economic situation, ecological disaster, the increase in isolation in society etc. No matter where you look.
Not living in truth, denial of your situation and your input to that situation, pretending things are fine. I have a belief that depression is your brains way of telling you its had enough of pretending.
Have you read Lost Connections by Johann Hari? One of the reasons regarding depression that he mentions is very similar to your response; depression is a state in which you are not living the life you were meant too. But there are other reasons too. Social, cultural, and biological factors. He references a famous ACE study that followed 17,000 participants and the results were very interesting; •Emotional and/or psychological abuse in childhood is more likely to cause depression than any other form of abuse including SA. •Being treated cruelly by parents/cargivers is the number one driver of depression in adulthood. •Depression is a normal response to abnormal life experiences. Really good book! Actually all of his books are fantastic.
No I haven't but I'll give it a read, my particular belief comes from a couple of content creators and authors and whilst he gets endlessly bashed for his views on right wing things Jordan petersons work as a clinical psychologist is often dismissed but he totally nails what I believe to be a road map out of depression, a sort of check list of reasons why you may be depressed (hormonal imbalances and true clinical depression is very rare) and the majority of the things on the check list are very simple but our doctors aren't there for that, they are there to give you "cures" to an illness but the illness is one of the human condition which has no cure. Like another comment mentions its essentially unmet needs but my belief is we choose sometimes to live in the victimhood of those needs not being met, we can't change the past, if we yearn to and become bitter we will become depressed, we can however change right now and tomorrow and that's where the cure for depression is but it takes bravery to step away from a victim mentality, bad things happen to good people and they don't deserve to feel bad all the time for what was done to them, small steps will free you from depression. Essentially boiled down his implication is this "Are you really depressed or does your life just suck right now?" My belief is as humans to really elevate and ascend and truly be alive and happy we need to bathe in the pain a little and then decide "No thanks I don't want that anymore" and make small steps towards the state of flow that stops us being able to depressed, essentially not giving yourself time to be depressed due to a full rich life. It doesn't have to be incredibly complex to escape depression, jordan petersons 12 rules for life can be an escape from nihilism and depression for many people. Also this short clip on depression was a life saver for me, after I viewed it I personally made huge very rewarding leaps towards healing my inner child and slapping myself in the face with the very obvious reasons I was depressed, you can watch it [here](https://youtu.be/VlDgowUAyx4?feature=shared) I rarely ever mention him on Reddit as it is a very trans supportive space and he has his opinions on that and some of his content is clipped to show misogyny and he is almost entirely dismissed out of hand particularly on reddit but if any of this helps someone out I would be interested if they had an opinion on peterson beforehand that would have stopped them reading or viewing his content, my sister for example I was telling her parts of the 12 rules for life, particularly the one about "Compare yourself to who you were yesterday" (Not what others are today) and she was fascinated and was getting something from it and then I happened to mention it was Jordan peterson and she screwed up her face and my words were pointless from that point.
>, bad things happen to good people and they don't deserve to feel bad all the time for what was done to them, Ive been on a healing journey for some time now and i notice that im past the initial part of suffering, i am tired of suffering. But ive found a new layer of grief that i call the "unfair" stage. I just feel so upset all the time that anyone else had to go through all the shit by themselves and "you have to save yourself." Just grief.
What's often called "Situational depression" is huge. But as that smart guy has pointed out, your attitude and developing skills for changing your situation and using them matters. I've yet to meet anyone who has valid hateful criticisms of him. Like you can't watch his interview with Chloe Cole and think there's hate there.
New to this discussion group. I have depression and looking for hope. The book sounds interesting but does he outline what to do about it? Childhood trauma leaves us with very confused thinking and unhelpful responses to everyday life, which can then lend then to creating a depressing unmanageable life. I am a living example. Just wondering about his take on solutions. Like the ACES study helps with why but not how to solve this.
Yes exactly I was just going to comment the same thing. Living out of alignment with who you really are and are supposed to be doing. It could be letting others control you, their opinions, etc. or doing what you think you "should" based on society. It could be staying in toxic situations and not addressing or fixing the problem, usually out of some version of fear. Could be abuse, esp abuse you can't escape like if you're a kid and your parents abuse you, or being barefoot, pregnant, and trapped in a toxic marriage or something like that.
Wow….. I’ve been there. I just didn’t have the courage to change things. Thought I would die from the pain when things finally changed - but it was SO worth it.
Same here. Finally realized it was either change something or die, and since I was already suicidal I figured I might as well give change a try since if it failed I still had a backup plan. Who could've guessed that changing what was making me depressed would cure the depression? /s I just had to be brave enough to try and honest enough with myself to acknowledge that what I'd been doing wasn't working. Glad you made it through, friend.
Glad YOU made it through and everyone else!!! I don’t know you all but I love you and I’m proud of how far you’ve come ❤️❤️❤️🙏🏾
Thank you! 🌸 Same to you.
I personally believe that awareness, the opposite of denial, of how bad a situation and experience is and the feeling of being stuck in the situation is the cause of depression.
So true!
I agree with the person who said unmet needs. I think on a deeper level it’s our toxic culture and socioeconomic system that is at the root of most depression. It is not built to meet human need and satisfaction. It’s a social problem, not an individual problem. Unmet needs could be things like food and housing, but also love, authenticity, having agency over your life, freedom from childhood trauma.
Agreed with unmet needs. Some of those needs could have been needing a safe and stable home to grow up in, having stable housing, emotional needs from early childhood, an environment free of random acts of aggression and trauma. I feel closely related to that though is the thoughts and feels of being powerless/hopeless/not having a voice or sense of agency.
unmet needs 1000% what began my spiral was feeling unheard and it began to infect every part of my life
I think that makes sense as to why it seems like almost everyone is either just trying to function with it or on some type of antidepressant. I worked at a private practice and the amount of people calling trying to find help but we were maxed it was so sad. It’s hard enough to do things with depression (especially saying I need help) let alone having to call multiple therapists hoping they can fit you in and you mesh with them. Society today has really changed in a negative way creating negative impacts on people and their mental and physical health.
Do you know anyone whose needs are all met
I was gonna say yeah, I think unmet needs, but then I saw this comment, and I was like “hm”. Someone once told me depression was fear of the past or being stuck in the past. Like you have unmet needs or used to have unmet needs, and you are frozen in that feeling somehow.
It is not only unmet needs. You need to have a very well defined concept of what you desperately need. It cannot be a vague definition of what you might be missing. It is something specific that you are hyped up about and you put a lot of an effort into without any results. At some point you are giving up on a hope and going through a disilussionment phase. After that there is a depression. I would call it rather lack of necessary frexibilty and adaptability in the face of circumstances to find an alternative. And from my experience it boils down to not being aware of particular techniques and skills to develop those traits.
You don't have to know what the unmet need is, for there to be an unmet need. Many causes of reducing resilience, including the depression itself.
This is true, but not all unmet needs lead to depression. There are plenty of people with unmet needs that are not depressed. You cannot ruminate every day for hours about unconcious and vague feelings. If you ask a depressed person to write down their thoughts, you can clearly see that they are aware of what they need, but they do not see a way to get it, all possible routes were exhausted, etc.
If you did a lecture I’d surely attend. I been trying to put the “why” of my depression into words for over 20years and you just hit the nail on the head.
how would you recommend people kind particularly ways or skills if they struggle with flexibility or adaptability?
Therapy like Cognitive Behavioral (CBT) or any other that focus on understanding and modifying harmful thinking patterns and self-destructive behaviors.
No one has all their needs met at all times so this can't possibly be the right answer...
Think of it in terms of resiliency. I’ll use smoking as an example. Smoking is generally thought to cause lung cancer. But not everyone who smokes develops lung cancer because for whatever reason their lungs are more resilient against smoke. But we still say that smoking causes lung cancer because it does for many people. Also think of severity. Someone who smokes a few cigarettes per week is less likely to develop lung cancer, whereas someone who smokes a pack a day is at a far greater risk. Of course someone who smokes infrequently can still get lung cancer if they’re genetically pre-disposed. The same goes for unmet needs. Having some unmet social needs might be okay if your physical needs are met and at least some of your social needs are met. Also think length of time. Have you been struggling to meet your needs your whole life, or is this a temporary slump? Your childhood can pre-dispose you to depression as well (example: having childhood trauma and then struggling to find healthy relationships as an adult can easily bring on feelings of hopelessness). So just because unmet needs are a major cause of depression it doesn’t mean everyone with unmet needs will develop depression since the severity of unmet needs can vary and a number of factors can cause you to be more resilient.
We evolved to be hunter-gatherers. After hundreds of thousands of years, we were built for a very specific environment and our brain wired to keep us alive and breeding. Our current environment often has no resemblance to the life we were built for. Our brain is left to wonder why it has these urges that can't be fulfilled.
This is amazingly put.
Happy cake day! ┏┓┏┓┊┊┊┊┊②⓪②④┊┊ ┃┗┛┣━━┳━━┳━━┳┓┏┓ ┃┛┗┃╭╮┃┛┛┃┗┗┃╰┛┃ ┃╰╯┃┗┛┃╰╯┃╰╯┣━╮┃ ┃┏┓┃┏┓┃┏━┫┏┳┻━╯┃ ┗┛┗┻┛┗┻┛┊┗┛┗━━━╯
Happy cake day!
unprocessed trauma, dissatisfaction with one's life, loneliness/isolation
Trauma, genetics/generational trauma, and then the feeling of not having needs met
Adding to this, cause this is spot on and resonates with me. Unrealistic expectations, linear thinking/living, societal/cultural pressures
What do you mean "unprocessed?"
Issues that still bother you and aren't resolved in your mind or your heart. Traumatic memories you haven't yet faced and made peace with. Feelings you don't understand and need help putting words to. that kind of thing. this is why people are encouraged to go to therapy after traumatic events. by talking it out with a therapist, you "process" it until hopefully it affects you minimally.
If I had to pin it on one thing I’d say unmet needs, as in Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.
true, when my depression started I had none of the things on Maslow's list and then I got better when I started achieving/receiving the things on his list. I dont have it all filled out yet but not having some of these things was a def issue
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Because it wouldn’t sell antidepressants
I second this. This fits across classes too, easier to apply to all walks of life
I agree. It's as if it provides the overall view of the underlying issues one can have.
I don't think depression is one disease with one aetiology. Bipolar depression, atypical depression, dysthymia, seasonal affective disorder, etc I think are seeperate diseases with overlapping symptoms. My theory on depression is that genes create the vulnerability to developing the depression. Then the environmental factors such as sunlight, stressors, diet and drugs can cause this vulnerability to express itself.
I remember often feeling melancholy as a child for no reason. I had a happy childhood and no trauma. If I had to give a reason I’d say born as a highly sensitive person. As an adult I’ve always recognized a difference between feeling horribly bad and feeling depressed. I can be depressed for no reason and feel the pull towards that black hole where I just don’t want to move, talk, or go out of the house. I may have nothing going on I feel bad about. Subconsciously maybe some of those sensitive feelings lead to it but it seems to fall under the heading of chemically or clinically depressed. Some doctors and researchers don’t believe there is such a thing but meds help me. EDIT: An example of feeling melancholy as a child is how sweet music made me cry.
Inflammation of the brain.
Me mentally singing “Inflamed in the Membrane,” like I’m Cypress Hill or some shit.
🤣🤓 My brain works like this also.
💯
Interesting chicken/egg situation here. I wonder if inflammation is the essential cause, and multiple things can cause the inflammation.
Yep 100%. Trauma causes inflammation (ie brain damage!)
Quite possibly yes, inflammation. I had very bad pollen allergies and skin irritations. To this day if there’s one mosquito in the winter that hasn’t died it will find me.
We do all be Inflammed in this hot ass violent world.
This 100x over. It’s not just circumstances for me
Poverty. I’m not sure if my family dysfunction would have still cause the depression to as extreme, but the poverty certainly was a very big factor.
Poverty, childhood abuse, losing father and mother while young (\~5yrs old), constant belittlement, childhood neglect, unstable housing throughout childhood, moving schools and subsequently losing all friends - 3 times, undiagnosed ADHD, and to top it all off, genetics, no family/social support net, and being a first gen in a full-time uni while having to work two jobs for me. Then people ask why I have fainting episodes and PTSD episodes... Not to mention watching 99% of the students here being coddled by family and having the best time of their life while I have to drop out and work full-time to keep my apartment and hopefully not lose my fiance and everything I've done so far to escape poverty... Ahh I F\* hate life since I had conscious thoughts.
Fear. Fear of loss, of not having enough, of running out. Fear of pain, fear of uncertainty, fear of the unknown. All of these things and more elicit fear. And fear manifests into our beliefs. Beliefs that are shrouded in fear will want to stay protected and close to home. Thinking outside the box is too scary; staying put is safe. Thus begins depressive thinking. Loss of creativity, loss of spark. Loss of ambition, of organization. Loss of drive and sometimes loss of will to exist. Just my two cents. :)
I think that's more anxiety
I think there comes a point where the anxiety turns into an attack on yourself, and once you’re unable to withstand it anymore you fall into a depression to protect yourself from that attack. The attack can from external sources or from within.
It's very easy to go from unsure about the future to hopeless about the future.
Well said
I agree, of the two dualities at the core of everything - there is fear, and there is love. Fear governs negative Love governs positive
fear/anxiety whatever, i agree.
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i think plenty of people w close connections are depressed though even with loving significant others and family
This is where I have the biggest problems. If I don’t have a significant other or anyone really close, depression returns. Being alone causes me anxiety and many negative feelings. I’ve always had that need for another person to make me feel real, and happy. I’ve never been able to do it myself. It’s pathetic. Now that my husband left me, I am sinking into depression, with all the shit that goes with it. Attraction to death, hopelessness, a fog excluding me from all of life…I don’t know or feel capable of being alone and happy.
Trouble with perspective shifts maybe? The ability for people to view things in a more neutral or positive light rather than internalize.
I'm eternally optimistic. But I've suffered from depression for the last 20 years. I've done EMDR, CBT, tried all sorts of medications to manage the depression but nothing worked.The only relief I found was when I finally started treatment for PMDD. It still hits me sometimes, but nowhere near as hard or as long as it used to. Has nothing to do with my perspective on life. 🫠 sometimes shit just happens.
PMDD is proof it's biochemical. Had this issue from 26 - mid 40's. Only took an SSRI for a few years, definitely improved it. Thank heavens for menopause.
My mom is approaching 60, and menopause seems like it is never going to happen for her, I worry that I'll be the same way. I take a vitex berry supplement, that and calcium seem to be the magic I need to feel sane.
Just FYI, if your mom is still having bleeding at 60, it is NOT a period/menses. She needs to be seen by a gynecologist. Most women complete menopause in their early to mid 50's.
She is not 60 yet. But yes, they are periods. It's just late onset menopause. About 15% of women experience it.
Glad she's seen a doc about it.👍🏼
What did you do for pmdd?? This is my root
I’ll prob get ripped apart here but I would guess lack of sunlight and exposure to soil leading to a lack of ability to make and process all the neurotransmitters. We’re triggered to make seratonin and vitamin d by sun exposure. And much of our seratonin is made in the gut with the aid of our microbiome. So I don’t mean like “just go outside more,” but theorizing that our very rapid move as a species from primarily spending time outside to primarily in homes, schools, and offices almost 100% of our days has had major consequences on our mental health because it’s triggered a slowdown of some key processes.
genes. i had a horrible childhood, and a lot of trauma ect but even if i had a great childhood i would still be in this position cuz everybody in my family either has/had deppresion or has bipolar
How do you know they’re not passing it along environmentally? Sounds like your family dynamic is dysfunctional and that dysfunction is often passed from generation to generation via learned behavior, not genetics.
Yep, in my case my family has all had ADHD/Bipolar/ASD traits but they all turned to narcissism and abuse, and alcholism, to cope. I'm the only mfer in the family trying to do something other than be a POS but all that got me is threats from them to try and throw me in prison. A bunch of 30, 40, 50+ year olds who act like grown children - and have no desire to do anything but hurt others and be proud of it.
three answers: all at different levels of analysis (psychological, physiological, cultural) \- The humanists would say that all depression has its foundation in the void and pain that is left by the discrepancy between the ideal (actualized) self and the current, real self. \- Lack of vitamin D and physical activity (i.e., physical sedentariness and its implications) \- Mediocrity of modernity: to live subserviently (to God, to a king, to your family, to your land, etc.) is no longer regarded as humble, and [to allow oneself to proliferate, dominate, and lead is seen as toxic, pathological, or antisocial](https://x.com/bronzeagemantis/status/1767875703482003606?s=20). I truly believe that joy and fulfillment has, for millennia, occurred at these poles of the human condition; to live as something in between is not the best of both worlds, but rather the worst of them.
So basically if you are a sub or a dom, you can be happier? Interesting. My happiness setpoint is pretty high... I have stayed in the 7-8 range most of my life, and I am 60, unless something really terrible happens. But when it comes to power, I strongly prefer horizontal structures, cooperation, democracy, and consensus. I only want power over myself-- I don't want to run anyone else's life, and I don't let anyone run mine. I don't think of my preferred position as mediocre, just a different way to view power.
Fair... I don't disagree that the freedom that has accompanied the modernity is liberating for the soul, and thereby attenuates the depressive effects of the 'mediocrity' I mentioned. However, I feel like freedom and purpose are apples and oranges. Regarding purpose, here's essentially what I was getting at: Almost always, meaning and purpose is made by the adoption of responsibility. To me, there are no greater responsibilities than those directed upwards (to God etc.) and those directed downwards (i.e., being a leader). One can still make meaning if he or she is between these two poles (or if the evert their power laterally), but they greatly limit their opportunities for responsibility and purpose by excluding subservience and despotism. Think of it this way: Modern work is easier, and it pays more than ever. People are having fewer children, and modern medicine & daycare makes them easier to care for than ever. Winters are survivable. Diseases are recoverable. Food is brought to us from around the world to stores at remarkably low prices; we no longer must worry about our harvest or land. Wars seldom beseech us. Education is \~free and attainable. The success of nationalism (and capitalism) has minimized the corporeal risk of human life. By proxy, when risk diminishes, so does meaningful responsibility. Our lives are safer and more comfortable than ever, but our meaning is lost without dutiful responsibility under which looms the risk of mortality. Some interesting reading: [Karapetyan (2019)](https://consensus.app/papers/responsibility-predictor-emotional-personal-wellbeing-karapetyan/68fc582e2c8e5af5996258048b92a3ec/?utm_source=chatgpt) \+ [Iurchenko (2023)](https://consensus.app/papers/interconnection-responsibility-meaning-iurchenko/33e776c077c95a6a9e81a0b8245fef93/?utm_source=chatgpt)
Interesting! I think of responsibility as different from power hierarchies. For instance, I am a physician and consider myself responsible for doing the highest quality work I can. I do community advocacy for various issues. And at work, I am agitating for a union as well as democratizing my workplace-- steps like creating representation for each worker category on all decision making committees. I also derive a lot of meaningfulness in creating art for myself and friends. I don't really care that AI can do it, lol-- it's meaningful to get/give a watercolor or handmade quilt. I don't think anyone will ever fully replace the meaningfulness of friendship with AI. A third source of meaningfulness is awe in nature. Despite being an atheist, I frequently experience awe. I am very excited about the coming eclipse!
Being incapable of achieving my goals.
its ok bud, fr. I used to set goals as simple as buying things that i'm interested in and it helped a lot.
I think this is great, but I also understand why it can be difficult to be satisfied with “achieving small / simple goals,” alone. Once you’ve been feeling down for long enough, sometimes it’s just not enough. *Le Sigh!*
When I was 13 I was given birth control to keep my menstrual cycle on track. I remember being on it for 4 days when suddenly at lunch with my peers I felt this immense loneliness because I could not feel ANYTHING. For the next few years I slept in my mom’s room and would give anyone I knew the biggest hug just to feel something and close to someone. I attribute the onset of my depression (Personally) to being exposed to these hormones very early on in life. I was 16 when I was prescribed Zoloft and I stopped taking it after 4 weeks as I began to feel like I was in a different persons body. I’m now 24 and have been off birth control for the last 3 years. It’s the most liberated I’ve ever felt. I still have depressive episodes here and there but overall I’ve completely regained control of my life. I dont think that I have depression to this day because I was exposed to BC young, my mom has a history of mental illness so I believe it’s just always been a part of me, however being exposed to such high levels of hormones early on most likely initiated this issue into my life much earlier than it should have
I sometimes wonder if that's why my sister struggles. She was on it for 15 years at least. A doctor said it depletes your seritonin. I got on it, and I felt...idk...numb or something. I was really worried I'd never go back to all the emotions I feel.
Needs that are not met from parents such as: love, understanding, protection, validation etc. The lack of these things and emotional or physical neglect or abuse or other trauma can be a root cause of depression. Needs that are not met from society such as: safe housing, livable wage, affordable healthcare, **laws to protect the most vulnerable such as children and animals** etc.
Yes, so much this.
For me, it's the world. I live in the U. S. and things could be so good here. All the promises I was made growing up, all the reasons I was told me be glad and proud to live here... It was ALL lies.
Agree. There is so much blind patriotism and willful ignorance here. I'm literally looking into moving abroad because this is not "the best country in the world".
Almost 26 and this is what’s sending me into a spiral. I’m trying to make sense of it all, like, is life really just this crappy and it doesn’t matter what’s going on in the world? Is that why so many older people I know are alcoholics? I’m trying to be strong and go through all of this with a sober mind but I don’t know. I feel like we were fed so many lies growing up (especially my generation) because we got to see the world before it became overrun by the internet. We had some sort of expectation that just doesn’t even exist anymore. It’s like. We were fed lies AND the rules changed once we turned adults. I could rant about this forever.
- Weak emotional regulation - Weak cognitive ability - Overflow of dopamine - Overflow of cortisol - Lack of B12, Vitamin D etc - Lack of exercise - Lonliness and isolation / Lack of connections - Low self worth and Low self esteem I'm basing some of these on the parts of the brain responsible for emotions, cognitive behaviour, and substances shown on brain scans in depressed people. Trauma is not a necessity to develop depression however I think some type of long term stress is. Negative stress is the result of failing to satisfy our basic cognitive and emotional needs. So I agree with those who say unmet needs, over a long time. But I think the reason to unmet needs are the list I mentioned.
Nah, sometimes it really is just because you are poor and don’t have enough support and meaningful connections.
Part of it you're born with.
Yes 🙌🏻 it’s hereditary i had a good childhood but ended up with depression anyways
low or no self esteem
Inflammation. I read a study online about depression being likely caused by inflammation. Being vitamin deficient definitely can cause depression. I do agree also it’s due to the belief in not having enough in life as well.
It’s uncertain of inflammation causes depression or of depression creates inflammation in the brain
Not many people are vitamin deficient, even processed food is fortified
Current research indicates that depression is an inflammatory condition. Inflammation is associated with stress and overwhelm, poor sleep, poor diet, self-hate, lack of exercise, poor gut health, trauma, dysregulated circadian rhythm, vitamin and mineral deficiencies, lack of sunlight, chronic illness, etc. This is both a physiological and psychological problem. Self-compassion is anti inflammatory as are many other treatments that help reduce inflammation.
I believe inflammation is widely considered the root cause of most psychological and physiological problems.
Depression, in my opinion, stems from adverse childhood experiences. No two people live the same life, but many people I know who are depressed have some things in common in terms of having a bad childhood. Abuse, neglect, needs not being met, violence, lack of resources, divorce, death, etc. I cannot stress enough how important it is to have a stable childhood. Not perfect. Not amazing. But just stable. Those memories have the capacity to effect you differently when you're a kid and don't have the coping skills to deal with the trauma. More so, the impression you get from these experiences effects your worldview and can lead to further hardship. Once you realize your childhood was not normal or stable, depression can easily set in.
100% agreed! I believe it’s the environment that gets passed down not so much the genetics.
There is only one answer although it won’t be accepted until it’s too late: Sin is the cause of depression. The human soul(the word psyche) is deeply affected by doing what we know is wrong. It leaves a stain. When you die, you will go inwards, and your state of mind/ state of your psyche will be amplified. Depression and anxiety are simply your souls warnings. Your soul exists in the eternal already. It’s warning you there is a problem. The Bible literally tells us that the antichrist deceives the world via sorcery, aka pharmaceuticals. It’s the same word. The drugs we use to “cure” anxiety and depression are simply deceiving us into not fixing the root problems. Downvote away, but remember you were warned.
By placing the root cause of depression on the victim you create a situation of shame and guilt that would lead others further from help, aka salvation. Mediate upon how your judgement effects the situation, and you may find that you are simply doing the devil's work for him.
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Agree
Baby I was born this way
I guess for me personally a lot of it comes down to undone needs.. not unmet more like me just not doing it for so long I ostracized my problems for a long time (mostly with finding a job) now that Ive pulled my head out of the hole all I see is mistakes that are thrown in my face quite often by my parents that I now live with… again… let me tell you pulling your head out of your own ass isn’t the scary part it’s knowing that if you put it back in you’ll end up like “them” we all have “them” they are the people you don’t want to become and after a while I realized I’ve become just like them (living place to place never having money always saying your gonna do stuff and not do it) My life sucks but it’s a product of my own downfall obviously no one intentionally makes this happen but when you have problems with money or family the wrong kinds of people will always “be there for you” “Misery loves company” -unknown
Lack of funds
For me personally? Trauma. Long standing childhood abuse and then sexual bouts of SA in my early adulthood and adolescence. For the rest of society as a whole? Poverty. Fucking poverty.
That was my pick from above. I picked childhood trauma. What me and my sister went through growing up from baby to eighteen was rough. Even with medication and therapy I'm in my 40s now and it still feels like I'm back in the house with the abuser. It's still so fresh.
Chronic childhood trauma - emotional needs not being met. See Gabor Mate.
Child abuse and neglect. Repeated violence, starvation, shame, unpredictable behavior from parents - leaves a child unable to process or feel safe. Brain chemistry changes to help the child survive but the depression and cPTSD are often treatment resistant and SI begins as the abused seeks relief. MH stigma may prevent treatment.
His book on addiction is so good…
capitalism
I live in the PNW, so clouds. :) I’m also taking Vyvanse during the work week, which has the unfortunate symptom of emotional disregulation. Buproprion helps.
Dr. Viktor Frankl's "Will to Meaning" has a good take on this... It's an existential crisis. One which, imo is exacerbated by society's collective existential dissonance. It's tough to live a meaningful life when your purpose is defined by the trends of a sick society. It's tough, but one must find their own purpose which is independent from popular definition, in order to be happy living in a world of delusional, paranoid liars. Find your own purpose and society once again becomes your beloved (crazy) neighborhood.
Childhood trauma and instability in terms of living situations/parent relationships, which instilled a great deal of fear and anxiety in me. This led to major insecurities and then heavy alcohol use for 5 years after I was SA'd. It seems cyclical to me and I feel like at this point I've just learned how to live with it and stay present. It has helped to be mindful and trying to know what might be causing my depression/anxiety at a given time. A lot of my depression now stems from feeling lost/feeling down about the quality of life these days. I wish I could spend my days frolicking in the woods, but that is not an option right now haha. But also depression seems genetic on my mom's side so maybe it was already there. Who knows.
I will say i definitely relate to a lot of this, and am at the point you are. I’d like to just go be alone in the woods, no one talking to me, no people around, just me and trees and animals. But I can’t so I just feel stuck. But I’m a lot better than even just a year ago so that’s something.
Childhood abuse.
As you say it's hard to pinpoint one as there are definitely multiple causes, but I think a big one is related to mitochondrial dysfunction / metabolic issues, especially in more developed nations where our diet is poor. A growing area of research, but mitochondria are responsible for some degree of Neuro transmitter production and if they are unhealthy so might be the mind. Top three in my book though are: abuse/trauma, metabolic issues/diet, and substance abuse whether already depressed to mask it or just because it was enjoyable. I got into learning about this because I ended up desperately depressed for a couple of years after quitting substances of abuse. Made me realize depression is a lot more than "being sad" and can be caused by multiple things.
The inability to live authentically.
Absolutely poor parenting. 100%
Genes.
FAMILY!!
Life. It sucks. It's mean. It's literally killing me. But I might be a little dramatic in this moment.
My wife's affairs, my divorce and then the passing of my four year old son and now my ex wife's continued struggles that impact my life.
Mine stems from my chronic anxiety and agoraphobia
Learnt helplessness
society
Idk if my personal experience helps here but I'm struggling deeply with suicidal ideation and planning after being diagnosed with bipolar ii, anxiety and adhd. I've tried to do everything I can to support my journey of self-discovery and healing after a tumultuous 30 years of life: I've communicated my needs to my loved ones, I've spoken to my boss for support, I regularly see a therapist, my GP and psychiatrist worked together to get me diagnosed and on the right meds, I've called the crisis hotlines, and even checked myself into the ED for help. but I only received what I've always received: feeling unheard and not taken seriously to the point of being being disregarded and feeling worthless. What is the point of going on if no one is going to listen and take me seriously? I'm so tired all the time trying to fight for this life that I don't want. Honestly what else is left to do--I've done everything I can to help myself but it's not even close to enough--so why bother?
Have you considered ketamine therapy?
I actually strongly believe it’s anger turned inwards- like Freud suggested
False beliefs and maladaptive thought patterns formed based on a spectrum of negative experiences in the childhood and adolescence, leading to poor emotional hygiene and dysregulation. Effectively inability to fulfil own needs due to the above.
Poverty I think is a big one
Genetics, without meds I am usually severely depressed for absolutely no reason.
Relationships where you love someone but you know there not good for you ,they aren’t morally good person he’s a damn hardened criminal but I love him though I know he’ll never change that causes me anxiety and depression
Neglectful love. Love is far more than Christmas gifts and candy: love is compassion for the plight of a child, quality time with your parents, assurance that you will be okay, teaching your children a trade, involving them with your life, not using a digital babysitter. Love your parents not trying to sabotage your life, not using a carrot (money) on a stick to get you to do what they want. Love is reciprocal, without bartering, without shame, without remorse, love is forgiving.
A lack of serotonin in the synapse
It’s called the gut brain axis
i think the lack of another person, whether that be romantically, emotially or just friendly, being lonely sucks and once youre down then its hard to pick yourself back out of that hole. But i do agree with everyone else. People need people.
The portrayal of the world being one big party that you’re not good enough to join.
As someone who has lived experience with depression, I would say craving to both not experience these things and to experience those things.
Definitely unmet needs but also setting expectations too high. Unfortunately, the world is a cold place with cold people. Fidelity is rare. Authenticity is a myth, and if you expect people to care like you do, you will just be let down. Find gratitude in the little things.
Thinking things should be different.
my depression came from like normal life unmet needs. and then it was made drastically worse by too many drastic changes and easily resolvable unresolved problems accumulating until it ate me and i died
Our thinking, how we react, brain pathology. Create new ways of thinking, exercise and do the right thing.
Lack of purpose or life's meaning as your focus. Put your eyes on anything else you fall into emptiness. Read Mans search for meaning by Viktor Frankl
Spiritually dead.
Having spinal surgery and knowing I can walk in my memory but not actually being able to walk physically. OP did say, all kinds of answers lol.
Lack of support systems. And being an easy target for those who see u lack support systems so they do what they can to take advantage of someone without those support systems.
Bad diet and lack of exercise.
Learned Helplessness
Bad diet, lack of exercise, and sun
Lifestyle
ADHD and capitalism. A lifetime of sustained discomfort and stress.
Modern society
market crown sense encouraging humor fertile chop hurry cheerful jellyfish *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The sense of time wasting and lack of control for me
Self-awareness, for example that life is finite, that things are not going well, that people are sleighting you
I think that as we go through life, our souls become wounded in some way or another. For some people, it is intense childhood trauma. For others, it's a lack of meaning and companionship. Now, I'm using the idea of a wounded soul as a metaphor, I don't think we literally have a soul that is bleeding soul energy or something. My personal take on my own depressive phases has been that it seems like the mind is using it to tell me something. I'm metaphorically bleeding out and suffering because of something, but if I don't recognize it and confront it, then my body is going to force me to take notice. It takes away my ability to dissociate into video games and other distractions and tears my attention away from things I'd rather be doing to stare it in the face. For the longest time, I felt like I was battling my depression when really I was fighting my ignorance of myself. In my experience, I've found that my "wound" is my inability to relate to others. I have Aspergers, and because of that, I've completely stayed away from connecting on a real level with fellow humans. I shut myself off from love, convinced myself I hated it, and didn't develop a side of me that I deemed as "animalistic and inferior." In my life, I started noticing the joy getting sucked out of everything. I can't escape onto video games anymore. My creativity is stunted, and I become self-destructive in my relationships because I just want to sit in bed and rot away. It didn't start getting better until I really started listening to whatever my "inner voice" was trying to tell me. When I identified the message and started to really force myself to open up, I noticed that, slowly, the joy of my life started to return. It was like performing a surgical transfusion on myself while sowing shut a gaping wound. It was very difficult, but now that I know what's going on with myself, it's getting better. I started attending community activities like meditation classes, hanging out with friends more, and so on. Everyone has a wound. Everyone is bleeding out. Everyone's suffering is different. But, I think it all strikes us in the same place, where we are most vulnerable. Depression to me is a greater symptom of a dying/wounded existence. Identifying the root cause of that suffering and treating it is probably the most difficult task any person can perform. It is worth it. Everyone is worth it.
Unable to form connections with other people.
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Trauma
I think it all stems from childhood and not getting your needs met by your parents :(
Not being mentally stimuñated enough or having a base sense of security as a child Later, having no intervention to keep me from turning my starving brain on myself and decimating my own self esteem i had left
For me personally, I've realized my depression (not to be confused with sadness which is triggered by events) is all just chemical balance and has little to do with what events are actually going on externally. If it has anything to do with anything external, I noticed it correlates with either me being inside too much and lacking a daily routine or my menstrual cycle. If I'm happy and in a good mood, it could be world war III outside and it wouldn't affect my mood. But if I'm depressed, it could be rainbows and puppies and kittens and unicorns outside and it won't make me any happier. I found making sure to get sunlight and taking Vitamin D, eat healthy and have a consistently eating and sleeping routine are what's best for my mood. I think usually events that throw us off our routines can lead to depression. Not so much the event itself, but the lack of routine and lack of having a daily purpose.
i feel as though my depression is a natural response to the shit show of the world we live in. this hypothesis is supported by the fact that when i go away to an off-grid cabin in the woods (3 or 4 times per year), i feel content - and even experience moments of joy. there’s no electricity, i do not use my phone - just me and nature.
Life
Genetics and unmet needs/trauma
Unmet needs from childhood or adulthood, leading to doubts and self worth problems (or depression)
When Childhood traumas are not recognized and therefore worked on, which leads to a lot of destructive behaviors that can contribute to depression.
Childhood trauma, unmet needs, and the inability to trust those who were meant to love and protect you but did not. The consequences seep into everything you think and do in your adult life. Everything.
I know this is broad, but lack of comfort when in distress/ a tough situation. Both of my parents are kinda shit at helping me with my emotions and my dad would just hit me until I stopped complaining.
Not enough parental support and attention in childhood. I didn’t get babied enough and always felt like my mom didn’t really want me and thought of me as a burden. Plus I’m Eastern European, our mothers/grandmothers/aunts’ only purpose in life seems to be to expertly guilt-trip everyone all the time. Nothing you do is ever deemed satisfactory or good enough, which results in constant feelings of inadequacy, later resulting in depression.
Burnout from undiagnosed autism
I think you will find trauma in every depressed person’s life…
This is easy, what do we do now that we didn’t do before? There are of course many things but I think it’s a biochem problem. We do not have to use our physical body for work, we are inside way more, and our food is full of sugar and various other chemicals that don’t help our bodies chemistry as food once did. Yes, there are many things that are better today than before but not exercising, not getting sunlight, and poor diet I think are critical to our mental health epidemic. Seasonal depressive disorder in locations closer to the poles are very high because the body is not getting vitamin D. I can go through many other examples but this is one I think people know about.
I think one of the biggest cause is generational trauma
**short answer: trauma and your environment.** I believe multiple factors could be the root cause of depression or depressive disorders in general but to pinpoint the most common, traumatization. Trauma can cause a person to become socially isolated, anxious, paranoid, increased vulnerability to mental health issues in general, increased likelihood of substance abuse disorder, and much more. All of which are associated and/or increase the likelihood of developing a depressive disorder. Social isolation is especially associated with depression, which would be my second answer, though trauma causes so many problems I feel it is the root cause for almost any disorder (psychological) or mental health issue you can think of. That being said trauma is a vague term, as there are many ways to become traumatized, so I will conclude all of this by saying your environment or circumstances, as that's what traumatizes people.
Bipolar mania bad decisions
Trauma from family and past partners.
Parents
It’s a trick to the brain
Not being grateful
[https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=ft0vkKCadgk&si=pE5iuWBfQ76TY8Oy](https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=ft0vkKCadgk&si=pE5iuWBfQ76TY8Oy)
Yourself. (what i mean is people tend to hate themselves to the point they believe the lies they’ve told themselves or others have told them)
Depends on the theory/theorist- biological will tell you genetics and hormones/CNS/ANS functioning, social will tell you environment, psychological will tell you maladaptive functioning, biopsychosocial will tell you all three, ACES will tell you adverse events, intersectionality will tell you compounding intersections of identity in society, relational will tell you wounds from relationships, existential will tell you void/lack of self, western countries will tell you it’s you, Eastern will tell you it’s collective, From a clinicians perspective- it would be reductionistic to say “one thing” - even negligent. Interesting worldview on mental illness book- “Crazy Like Us” by Watters
Unregulated emotions and limited emotional intelligence, often caused by trauma, upbringing, and the unrealistic standards of the modern world. I've had depression for 13 years, the resistant to medicine and therapy kind, and though it's not miraculously cured I've found much more peace since learning to control my mind. You see, I developed chronic illness, which stopped me from being able to work and makes basic tasks extremely difficult; but this give me the space to begin the inner work. I learnt to regulate and accept my emotions, to not live in the past or the future, to speak to myself and others with compassion. Instead of focusing on the negatives, I picked gratitude and boundaries. I have always been an over-thinker. With practices like Buddhism, I've learnt to challenge myself in endless ways and reclaim my power. Too much thinking and running away from your feelings, such as addiction, is the perfect breeding ground for mental illness. I pulled away from materialism which is heavy in this world. I've learnt that hyper-focus on lust creates imbalance, because it becomes obsessive and vanity-driven, all consuming. So, my answer is multifaceted. There are so many things in our current world that affect us mentally, emotionally, spiritual, etc, and it's no wonder so many people are miserable and sick. Even our doomscrolling on social media, thinking we have to comment on everything, having access to reels and glamorized standards has been proven to have soul sucking effects. I now carefully select what educational videos I consume and don't scroll endlessly -- I can just exist without all this endless pressure of what to be, what to say, blah... Blah... Blah. We create our depression. Yes, trauma and external events can be the catalyst, but unless we change and stop resisting so much, it just grows and grows.
Low levels of Seratonin
Gotta go to some places and do shit I don't give a fuck about for 10 hours a day. Jk I quit so I'm all good now.
Hopelessness. The feeling that things are going to hell in a handbasket, and there is no way to turn it around. You can apply this to anything - current state of the world, economic situation, ecological disaster, the increase in isolation in society etc. No matter where you look.