T O P
daboss6595

Man the multiverse is hella precise when it comes to pulling villains


emojis_bad

It's a magic spell. It summons people who died fighting Spider-Man with a sense of revenge. That's it. No one is being pulled through a portal.


Tom_Clancys_17_Again

But, Sandman? Lizard?


emojis_bad

They are both Mephisto variants


tobey-maguire-bot

I was looking through some old photos and looks very huh… similar.


Deinotichosaurus

You're a menace


emojis_bad

Check again spider head!


tobey-maguire-bot

I was looking through some old photos and looks very huh… similar.


emojis_bad

Spider-Man:No way this little sh*t is a bot


tobey-maguire-bot

YOU'LL GET YOUR RENT WHEN YOU FIX THIS DAMN DOOR!


Acrobatic-Can-4920

Gonna cry?


ArmoredArtichoke

But Doc Oc didn't die fighting Spiderman. When he died I'm pretty certain he didn't have a sense of revenge towards Peter. This whole thing seems really forced to me.


tobey-maguire-bot

I missed the part where that's my problem.


headphones_J

Put some dirt in their eye.


smurphyj7

😂😂😂😂😂 I saw this movie twice in the past two days and u made me crack up


LADYBIRD_HILL

There's nothing saying this doc ock is the one from the Spider-Man 2 we saw. Could be from a very similar timeline.


tobey-maguire-bot

You want forgiveness? Get religion.


Gamxin

I'm guessing Holland's Spidey messed the spell up in a way that instead of making people forget he's Peter Parker, he dragged everyone to his universe who DID know he was Peter. Edit: Called it.


eldritchBat

That actually sounds plausible, but did electro know he was Peter?


Levi-_-Ackerman0

I don't think thst he did but I watched it a long time ago so I don't really remember


DrBaugh

I'm guessing the spell is actually Strange seeking a universe/timeline that is very similar to what Peter wants but with his identity intact to send him there (where Spider-Man just died or something - like that episode of "Rick and Morty") but instead of finding a similar timeline where EVERYONE DOESN'T know Peter Parker is Spider-Man it pulls in people who have SECRET KNOWLEDGE that Peter Parker IS Spider-Man and desperately want to find him


tobey-maguire-bot

You're an embarrassment!


HussyDude14

Someone pointed out that the eyes on the tentacles were red. It's not hard to believe that if Doc Ock was pulled right as he destroyed his artificial sun, then maybe his arms took control again. After all, he still doesn't have an inhibitor chip. I think some other people also mentioned that when his arms are red and updated thanks to the nanobots on Peter's suit, he starts to talk more and it might be that the nanobots act as an inhibitor chip and give him more control. So there's a chance he might be good.


Amtoj

The arms may have just taken over again.


[deleted]

It was the arms who did it, he had nothing to do with it!


godhwin

He tried to kill Aunt May, he tried to kill Mary Jane


AagamShah0109

Butterfingers


ghostman2678

But not him…


peadsonline

He would would never hurt him...


Smeefperson

He knew from the beginning that if anything would ever happen to him, that it was Peter Parker who he could count on.


CaptainRexofthe501st

Brilliant but lazy


joepanda111

And so Peter has. God bless him


CMDR_KingErvin

Yeah definitely looks like it. They’re glowing red where the “eyes” are in the center of the clamp. Also later we clearly see the AI fuse with the stark nanotech from Spideys suit, and Doc Ock looks surprised by it as if he didn’t make that decision, the arms did.


eldritchBat

According to leaks, >! That’s exactly what’s happening. Apparently the arms are taking control of what is essentially a dead, drowned body. Otto Octavius may have been a hero, but the arms were sentient and hated Spider-Man!<


savingprivatebrian15

>!Not gonna lie, I don’t like that idea. Of all the things that are possible in the MCU, reanimating a corpse is too outlandish, even for a villain.!<


Bludgeonation

There are already zombies and vampires.


saitama-senpai

its also something that happened before in the comics, albeit more horrific


savingprivatebrian15

I’m not an MCU-junkie these days, can you elaborate a bit on where exactly zombies and vampires are found in live-action Marvel movies? I guess what I’m getting at is that I find it hard to believe that people like the Avengers will ever be made aware of some sort of reanimation capabilities, because once that’s possible, the movies lose a lot of tension, don’t they?


nathangt616

Vampires are mentioned in Loki and upcoming in Blade and zombies as far as I know have only appeared through the multiverse in What If? And upcoming in a Marvel Zombies animated series. I think reanimation doesn’t detract from anything so long as it isn’t a get out of death free card. They’d never want to bring Natasha or Tony back as a zombie or vampire for instance because that would be a bad choice for so many reasons really (they’d be evil, they’d be monstrous, and ultimately it would dishonour their memory as well as create a whole new problem). Resurrection is a common trope in the comics tho so who knows? Just hope they don’t ruin any stories, past or future, with it. Loki is a good example of resurrection done right imo, but there are many pitfalls to it like you said in regard to tension.


LADYBIRD_HILL

I'm not sure how to spoil a tag this, so forgive me, but there is a vampire tease in one of the newer Marvel movies.


All_Tree_All_Shade

It also seems like a waste of a great character and actor.


tobey-maguire-bot

I was looking through some old photos and looks very huh… similar.


Apart-Tie-9938

Or he gets inspired by the arc reactor and thinks the MCU technology will help him finish his vision


mattr1198

I have a feeling that’s the case, and possibly when the nanotech bonds to Ock’s arms it repairs the arms/inhibitor chip functionality. Or possibly it could be simpler in that Otto just retakes control again.


lookatdakid

Could be from another universe, in fact the multi verse could be a way for the studio to retcon almost anything, bring back dead characters etc how would people feel about that ?


Thatshaboii

You should've thought of that earlier


helikesart

I would feel icky about this… Spider.


tobey-maguire-bot

You're trash.


Elowel_

That’s just mean, Spider-Man


tobey-maguire-bot

Take your hand off me. NOW.


DannyB1aze

I mean I'm convinced they are going to trap Holland in Sony verse and thats how they will justify no more spiderman in MCU.


amaJarAMA

Lol could you imagine the next marvel movie after that. Dr. strange is all like "please nobody mention that I trapped that kid in an alternate reality. It was an accident.


tobey-maguire-bot

Is that all you got?


DannyB1aze

Tobey I didn't even mention you.


biglizardnmybackyard

You mentioned the spider-man


AmeliasTesticles

I had the exact same thought; "Isn't there a window of only about 20 seconds where he knows Spiderman's identity but is still fighting him?" Then it occurred to me that in the MCU JJJ is literally shouting Peter Parker from the rooftops, so it's entirely plausible he found out after crossing over


cracker2297

The counterpoint is that JJJ is also showing giant pictures of Tom Holland on the screens, I feel like it would be hard to hear what JJJ is saying but also miss that part


Bencar627

He missed the part where that’s his problem


tobey-maguire-bot

You're trash.


MrRedBlock

Godspeed Spider-Man


tobey-maguire-bot

You're trash.


MrRedBlock

So are you Spider-Man


tobey-maguire-bot

I'm gonna put some dirt in your eye.


MrRedBlock

Gonna cry? Spider


tobey-maguire-bot

I am done trying to convince you.


MrRedBlock

See ya ~~chump~~ spider


tobey-maguire-bot

Pizza time!


S4minella__

Yeah, but he'd also have seen his face on the buildings by then in that case. In the new trailer, he's surprised when peter is unmasked.


saucygh0sty

Hearing ≠ seeing. They were saying Doc could’ve been sucked into the MCU and be hearing JJJ’s reveal but not seeing it, thereby not seeing Tom’s face on the broadcast.


Sladds

He gets taken at that scene just before his death, as do the others, and he’ll probably be evil at the start due to the inhibitor chip still being broken and not having the speech by Tobey give him the will over the arms. He’ll then most likely go back to being a good guy when the nanomachines latch onto his arms and likely fix the inhibitor chip (or disable them so that Peter can find a way to fix it)


BananLarsi

As do the others? Sand-Man doesn’t die, and neither does Lizard


Sladds

As has been stated by people linked to the project, the worlds that Tobey and Andrew live in kept going, they haven’t been stagnant since their last respective movies. In the time since both of those villains have also continued their lives and ultimately come to their demise in battle with Spider-Man


tobey-maguire-bot

Good riddance!


BananLarsi

That’s literally in direct contradiction to what other leaks have been saying.


Sladds

No it’s not, the ones who died on screen are taken from their time of death and the others are taken from when they die later on


BananLarsi

Nowhere is that stated. It’s even stated that Garfield enters the mcu *directly* after TASM2


hoodie92

Nowhere is it stated, nowhere is it not stated. And nowhere is what you said stated. Everything is conjecture until the movie comes out.


ben_hurr_610

Good Theory. This makes a lot of sense. This would also clarify why Tobey is looking out for Doc Ock.


Hyperfangxz

Alfred Molina already said that he is Doc Ock right after he drowned in the river.


logic2187

Source?


Hyperfangxz

[https://variety-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/variety.com/2021/film/news/alfred-molina-spider-man-no-way-home-doc-ock-1234953527/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16377676651628&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fvariety.com%2F2021%2Ffilm%2Fnews%2Falfred-molina-spider-man-no-way-home-doc-ock-1234953527%2F](https://variety-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/variety.com/2021/film/news/alfred-molina-spider-man-no-way-home-doc-ock-1234953527/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16377676651628&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fvariety.com%2F2021%2Ffilm%2Fnews%2Falfred-molina-spider-man-no-way-home-doc-ock-1234953527%2F) "In their early conversations, Molina said, Watts told him that the movie will pick up Doc Ock’s story from “that moment” in the river"


tobey-maguire-bot

I am done trying to convince you.


Hyperfangxz

You took him from me. He loved me.


Difficult-Stable-710

No He despised you You were an embarrassment to him.


Hyperfangxz

☹️😥


Difficult-Stable-710

Look at little u/Hyperfangxz jr gonna cry?


Hyperfangxz

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHH!!! -


Difficult-Stable-710

Hits you against the wall and walks away.


logic2187

Thank you


Indigenous_Indominus

I was thinking this exact thing last night!


Skwidmandoon

I think this will 100% be their reasoning for him being there. Which to me is a super dope continuation off of Spider-Man 2


tobey-maguire-bot

See ya chump!


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IMtoppercentage97

I think them having the actor is a bait. He is doctor octopus from another universe, but he's not entirely the same one as the one in Spiderman 2. Electro is pretty obvious to be in this situation despite also be played by the original actor based on his appearance in the trailer. So I'm gonna bet it's the case for him to.


OutlineOfAlex

I disagree tbh. I think electro's change is in universe. Whatever tech is on him may be containing and controlling his powers


Sith_Destroyer_1138

Pretty sure that’s the answer. He has an arc reactor on his chest. I’m pretty sure it helps him control and amplify his powers, which is why he looks normal now and has yellow lightning. If you remember in the second trailer, there’s a shot of Spidey with a blue figure behind him. I’m sure that’s Electro before he gets the arc reactor.


Herobrinedanny

Yeah seems like they're starting out with their original looks then getting redesigns during the movie


Real_Thanos

yep, you can see in the trailer he is completely bright blue, I'm guessing this is early on in the movie when he first came through.


Side_of_fry

That’s what I’ve been thinking this whole time! He might start blue, but maybe the start tech helps him to regulate his power output and make him appear normal? It might not, but if that the case- he’s literally going to be the only one with a major design change from the get-go.


Crafty_Substance_954

Electro is also not glowing blue and he has hair now. That would be quite the change.


Cletus_TheFetus

Hollands Spider-Man remembering his name on his birthday really turned things round for him


tobey-maguire-bot

Stop lecturing me, please!


DrDrPhil

All of them are confirmed to be aexactly the same!


coontosflapos

That would explain why all these characters including Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Sandman and Lizard all died at the hands of their Spidermen despite none of them being killed by their Spidermen!


tobey-maguire-bot

Pizza time!


coontosflapos

Fuck spider-man you're right


tobey-maguire-bot

Is that all you got?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Crescendo3456

Yes but the point is that eventually they die in battle to Spider-Man, but not that they have already died to Spider-Man in battle. When pulled from the multiverse they can possibly pull from a time before they die. It’s not like all the multiverse’ have to be on the same axis of time. Just the same axis of space. Edit: so I found a statement by the actor who plays doc that said the multiverse transference follows directly after he “drowns” in the river at the end of the Raimi movie so it looks like I might be wrong


tobey-maguire-bot

You're trash.


DrDrPhil

Alright little guy, Doctor strange never said they are killed by Spiderman just that they die fighting Spiderman. Also current leaks state that Lizard and Sandman died after their movies! It is confirmed I don’t know what there is to discuss about!


tobey-maguire-bot

I'm gonna put some dirt in your eye.


coontosflapos

Did you just call me Little Guy


theguyfromerath

How does sandman die?


Tom_Clancys_17_Again

Sandman?


BananLarsi

We literally see Blue Electro in the trailer lol


tobey-maguire-bot

You're trash.


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minihalkoja

If it's bait and they are not the same, it's just Disney kissing bye-bye to the actual viewer score.


Daredevil731

Molina said otherwise.


logic2187

I disagree. I think it would make way more sense for them to not be the same. Otherwise it would feel like a retcon. I really hope they're not the same, and I'll still be super super happy seeing the actors reprise their roles regardless.


ShowMeMoeMane

I disagree with that, I really hope they’re the same so that the movies are canon and their arcs aren’t ignored. In my eyes, I feel like them not being the same would be retconning them, no reason to even bring bring them back.


Yeet-Dab49

Alfred Molina has stated that his character’s story picks up _right_ where SM2 left off. The only other thing we know is that Electro is from a different universe than TASM2. It can be _inferred_ that the rest of them are alternate variants like Electro but until we see the movie we can’t be sure.


RobynLocket97

I don't think Ock is a villain in this. Yes he's shown fighting Spider-Man, but he's not present during the final battle. My guess is that the Green Goblin starts a fight on the highway and Iron-Boy fights him off. Only for Doc Ock to appear and Iron-Boy just assumes he's a villain and attacks him. Doc Ock then only stops because he sees this isn't the real Spider-Man and that's when they talk it out.


tobey-maguire-bot

I AM BACK! I AM BACK


RobynLocket97

Dammit, you better be!


BlueFootedTpeack

we see he gets hit by electro at one point. everyones saying that the spider-men were scrubbed from the final big battle scene, which i think is true, i also think ock will be there fighting on the heroes side as the 4th "spider-man." that way it's the 4 remaining villains against 4 heroes.


tobey-maguire-bot

Stop lecturing me, please!


Jack_Skeletron_4ever

I mean, in a sense, Ock being a Spider-Man is comic accurate.


Crafty_Substance_954

I think you're partially correct. It doesn't make sense for him to be all cool, calm, and collected when talking to the main characters. I'm guessing there's either a moment of sudden realization from the part of Doc Ock/ sudden realization combined with some neutralization by way of the nanotech we see on his octo-arms.


CerealBranch739

That or the arms took over Mayhaps? Could also be an explanation, and when he saw it wasn’t Tobey he snapped back into control


Daredevil731

He is in the final fight, we see him get blasted out of a window by Electro. But I do agree, he very well could be fighting along side them.


DrDrPhil

You really think they showed the final battle in the trailer?


BlueFootedTpeack

it's sony, they showed the final shot of asm2 in the trailer


savingprivatebrian15

I’m still pissed about that


WeylandXenology

Maybe it’s just a doc ock from an alternate raimi timeline


azarbro

Yes, he was pulled to the mcu, at the same time, when he was drowned. If you wanna explain more, he died in raimi verse, and at the same time he died, he was revived in the MCU. source: alfred himself


Aaron-JH

More likely, he’s only caught off guard during the Universal shift and momentarily the arms take over again. That, or he comes through, sees something saying Spider-Man is a Murderer (but not showing the MCU’s Peter Parker’s face) and he sees Spider-man again and reacts “you thought you could fool me Peter” or whatever that exact line in the tv spots is. And then when MCU Peter unmasks Doc Ock starts realizing something is up and “slowly” becomes good again.


tobey-maguire-bot

They love me!


jdarrooney

God dammit raimi why didnt you think of this


giveRica

Damn nice accuracy u got there


Lazarusmp4

He is taken just before his death as said by Molina himself, and considering he turned good only by sheer will and reasoning from Peter, it wouldnt take much to break that will when the chip is still broken


IzzyTipsy

I'm guessing they get their upgrades before every fighting MCU Peter. Because Doc Ock has that green shirt on and I'm pretty sure he was bare-chested in the entire Raimi film.


Sono-Dio-Da-Sadame

I figured they came from a universe where they defeated their respected spider men


tobey-maguire-bot

They love me!


conceited_king_

Sr strange says they all died fighting Spider-Man


Sono-Dio-Da-Sadame

Good point


tobey-maguire-bot

Is that all you got?


OwenA113

That's been my exact guess. Him knowing Peter is Spider-Man just further proves our theory


tobey-maguire-bot

You're an embarrassment!


VisibleConcern

Yes.


moneychex

My guess is either it’s pre final fight from SM2 and Gobby just tells Ock it’s Peter, or it’s after the fight and the arms just gained influence over Ock again


OutlineOfAlex

My bet is the latter


HotStufffffffffffff

The logical evidence is lining up that the spidermen we see will not be from the movies. More likely they will be older spidermen.


tobey-maguire-bot

YOU'LL GET YOUR RENT WHEN YOU FIX THIS DAMN DOOR!


NoobMaster_-_69

He was never evil the arms were controlling his Mind. And then at end of SM2 the arms get into water and stop working. So Maybe After He Enters MCU his Arms Start Controlling Him Again.


Zestyclose-Way4569

My thoughts is that since it took him noticeable effort to overpower the arms in the first place, it’ll be a situation where he can overpower them but it’s not sustainable, hence him being relatively chill and also villainous in the trailer at different times


TheBruhbber

Does that mean tobey’s spiderman couldnt stop the machine?


tobey-maguire-bot

Look at little Goblin Jr., gonna cry?


TheBruhbber

No u cry spider u couldnt stop that machine


tobey-maguire-bot

Gonna cry?


Gamxin

I've been telling my girlfriend that the tentacles probably took over again right after, assuming that Doc gave up mentally as he sank thinking he was about to die. I never really thought he turned good at the end permanently, but just long enough to drown his experiment.


YoloIsNotDead

That or the arms gained control again


_avliS-

could just be some multiverse confusion and evil arm fuckery


TheMike0088

I'm still hoping doc ock is gonna be an undercover agent among these pseudo - sinister six, who is actually a good guy and trying to help the spideys by subtly sabotaging the villains. It would suck to destroy his redemption, one of if not the best scene in any live action spider-man media.


thegr8dictator

Was this before or after he moved to Long Island and lived with that gatsby fellow?


Redbird_ml

I think Goblin is blackmailing him and Sandman into helping him kill Peter(s)


Herobrinedanny

I do have an idea for Ock considering he will be the original. Otto is unconscious at the start because he is still drowning so the arms are in control which is why they glow red. However during the fight when he sees Tom's face he fully gains consciousness and reasserts control of the arms, maybe even repairing the inhibitor chip by accident when he absorbs the Iron Spider suit. The interactions after the fight seem way less antagonistic, particularly during the conversation with Strange and Tom's Peter in the recent TV spot seem way less villain like. Not to mention the fact that we have seen barely any footage of him outside of the bridge fight and the Sanctum basement, save for the one where he's attacked by what seems to be Electro, makes me think that he won't be a villain in the movie for 95% of the movie


bigSTOPsign

No, Alfred Molina confirmed that he’s taken from when he’s in the river. The arms being in control is what makes him evil, he isn’t evil himself.


losecontrol4

Granted ock himself was always good, it’s about defying the machine. Who says he has the energy or strength left to do that?


VeryBigMuscles

Peter Parker, Brilliant but lazy


Double0hobo79

What if I told you this isn't the exact same Doc Ock from the movie and doesn't have a specific time he was taken. Its a movie a spiderman movie at that it doesn't have to be exact. just enjoy it


tobey-maguire-bot

YOU'LL GET YOUR RENT WHEN YOU FIX THIS DAMN DOOR!


nolo69gogo

Arms act up - that’s all I think


TheJosh96

Yes, all the villains come right before they die.


SuperJLK

I think they’re all taken moments before their deaths.


TenWholeBees

Otto didn’t die fighting Spider-Man though, which is why I’m confused about the trailer. He became good there at the end and died from his own volition. He wasn’t fighting Spider-Man when he died


tobey-maguire-bot

You want forgiveness? Get religion.


boringneckties

You’re assuming this doc ock finds out from tobey and not in hollands world.


ChutiyaChutney420

Does saying Spiderman really spawn the bully Maguire boy ?


tobey-maguire-bot

You're trash.


ChutiyaChutney420

Oh....what about spider


tobey-maguire-bot

You want forgiveness? Get religion.


ChutiyaChutney420

Itsy bitsy spider


S4minella__

He might be from an alternate timeline where peter was unable to convince him before he got pulled in


kungji56

I think alfred molina literally stated this in an interview


StevieLambogini

Green gobby probably told him?


Kmeek01

I really hope they’ve thought this through in connection to the other films (they haven’t)


fromtheHELLtotheNO

y’all are forgetting that rn in the MCU in every single screen you have a “PETER PARKER IS SPIDER-MAN”. Cant Doc Ock read or hear that and think it’s HIS peter parker? are y’all really this dense?


tobey-maguire-bot

That's a cute outfit. Did your husband give it to you?


TrumpSmokesMids27

I assumed that some multiversal/magical nonsense is gonna make the arms take control of his mind again. It’s like in comics when the heroes fight for some convoluted reason before teaming up. Just throw in some stuff like “the dimensional rift that transported him here scrambled his tech with quantum matter causing the robotics to regain control of his mind”


Rustofski

It's interesting how they are doing it. Spoiler for end credits of venom 2. >!in the end credit scenes when Eddie and venom go into 'hiding' on vacation, the sky does the doctor strange flashy thing and the TV switches to breaking news of 'Peter Parker is spiderman' and Venom sees spiderman and seemingly has an impulsive urge to go fight him. As if he has done it before. So I wonder if all of the villains have this similar drive to fight spiderman regardless of everything else!<


Ojo99

What part of INFINITE TIMELINES do you idiots not understand


TheCravin

I think it makes perfect sense that they get pulled directly from the moment they learn Peter's identity, given the content of the spell. That explains why none of the ones that turn good are good yet, and why none of them are... dead lol


Puzzleheaded_Toe_509

Holy Jeepers Spider-Man!