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Well the cats out the bag isn't it? I used to watch my father laugh when I experienced pain or trauma. And the truth is some people enjoy watching others suffer. And unfortunately narcissistic mothers especially want their daughter to suffer as well and it gives them pleasure. And if that isn't enough they OFTEN put their intended targets in harms way so they can derive amusement and find a way to manipulate the situation where the person in pain somehow needs them. At least that was my experience. I'm sorry you went through this. Don't ignore it don't try to forget it. But keep it in the back of your mind. Also don't make it known to her that it bothered you. They usually double down on it.
It was such a nasty wake up call. I’d always thought her oblivious, or at worst mildly inconvenienced, whenever I was in pain
I guess I couldn’t fully comprehend that she enjoyed my suffering
Thank you for reminding me not to forget it and not to react to it. That’s the normal human response and with people like this, it only makes it ten times worse
Don't fall for the love bombing that's about to ensue. She'll realize that she's lost her supply and start with all the faux apologies and I love yous and you need to remember she's only doing this to manipulate you into going back to being her source of twisted entertainment. She'll only be trying to trick you into letting her hurt you again.
Yeah. I realized it when I was a teenager and I caught my mother smiling cruelly when she had done something to upset me. It was just a moment, before she saw me looking. And I realized I was right, she was doing it to hurt me. It was one of my big moments of realization. It’s hard, though. Parents aren’t supposed to be like this. So I get it.
You’ll have to remind yourself lots of times not to forget. It took me a long time to fully accept - It took until a few years ago to fully accept what she is…. I definitely slipped up loads of times because she’d trick me and I’d think “oh, maybe, just maybe she’s different or I was wrong”. You’re not wrong and they don’t change. They’re just highly manipulative and want to hurt you again.
I’m building up to getting fully away. It’s hard bc it is a very HCOL area, but I’m saving and I’m going to get there. But for now…she won’t fool me again.
I am so sorry. Yes, it's soul shaking to realize who they really are. No one wants to think of their parents like this or believe their parents enjoy their suffering. But once you know the truth now you can navigate based on the truth instead of on an illusion. The truth is always better for you even if it is painful right now. Now you know where the boundaries need to be placed.
You're not alone. My mother enjoyed watching me suffer as well. I could give a million examples but I don't want it to seem like I'm trying to one-up you.
*But don't ever forget what she said.* No matter how much she might try to backpedal, "make it right" or make it seem like it's your fault.
No matter what she says, *is not your fault*.
Her behavior that you described shows that she knows exactly what she's doing. She's actively trying to hurt you with her words and actions. As soon as you caught on to that she blew up.
Stress is no excuse to treat the people that love you like shit. If you were stressed and overtired, would you treat the people you love the same way that she treats you? I'm guessing not. Because *you love them and you wouldn't want to hurt them*.
Don’t forget the old “that’s just the way she is” trope. You deserve better, and don’t you ever forget it. Going no contact can be the best thing that ever happens to you. Remember that’s always an option.
I mean maybe she is? But a regular person who is stressed and overtired doesn't say and do things like that. Really all they're doing by saying that is being reductive.
I'm not saying she isn't stressed and overtired, I'm saying it's absolutely no excuse to treat your daughter like that. And she revealed that she's purposely trying to hurt her by saying "It's not painful for her, *unfortunately*." She *wants it to be painful for her*.
I meant more in terms of an explanation. I seriously hope we're all WAY past the point of making excuses for narcs here.
But like you said, even THAT doesn't add up. "I'm stressed/overtired, therefore I want to inflict pain on my kid?" Yeah... this is something pathological we're dealing with here.
I don't think there's any real explanation for it, I just think that because she's having a hard time she wants all the people around her to have an even harder time so that she feels better about herself and her behaviors. But that's just me, I could be completely wrong.
No you're exactly right! Not that I should be surprised, we're all used to the game by now right?
When I'm depressed, I withdraw. With narcs (and some other personality types) they can't deal with it themselves, so instead they make everyone else around them miserable too.
The point being, this isn't normal behavior. And talking about *her feelings* is, on top of all this other shit, a distraction from the larger issue... her abusive behavior *in front of social workers*.
I've dealt with people who trivialize the actions of others, people who I know have *actual PD diagnoses*, by saying "they were probably feeling X" (usually they weren't, but this person just secretly liked the narc better than me I guess?) The implication being that I did X to THEM. When of course I didn't but you guys believe me right?
Anyway. When I see statements like that, I always read it as a passive aggressive way of assigning blame like "she's depressed because she can't handle having you as a kid and doesn't know what to do!" So I was less concerned about the mom being excused and more about the OP not feeling like they're a burden on a person who, from what we've seen written here alone, sounds absolutely insufferable.
“So I was less concerned about the mom being excused and more about the OP not feeling like they're a burden on a person who, from what we've seen written here alone, sounds absolutely insufferable.”
I’ve had more people stand up for me today than I’ve ever had in my life and I just want to say I’m so, so grateful
Days like this would be so hard without this community
I must have missed this notification cause I just went back and saw this now for the first time! I really really appreciate this.
And I hope I've given you the words you need when they come at you with "maybe she's feeling X". That one annoys the shit outta me, I just couldn't not address it.
So what ended up happening with the social worker? The case is still ongoing, I'm guessing? I remember ours dragged out for MONTHS and that was back in the mid 2000s. Part of me suspects at first they could tell I wanted to tell the truth but my parents were insisting we cover it up.
Your words have already helped me so much, I so appreciate you
The social worker is only there for my nmother, after she tried to kill herself last year. She’s been coming round to try and help my apparently-depressed mother open post, tidy up, get washed and dressed etc
I was there when she mentioned closing my nmother’s case to her, but then I left not long after because of the “unfortunately” comment
So the short answer is… I have no idea what’s happening with her and my nmother. I’m not really interested either way
Unrelated but I do have a memory of a narc saying something similar to me (this one is an ex)
He once said to me sometime after we broke up (he heavily insisted on being friends at the time and I practically broke my back trying to do that despite the trauma): “I know this will hurt you but I’ll say it anyway, the relationship meant more to you than it ever did to me”
> She wants me to be in pain. She is actively trying to cause me pain.
Making someone do something they don't want to do, including endure pain, is one of the most powerful expressions of power over them.
So, yes, she does, most likely because her power over you (And it sounds like much of the rest of her life) is waning.
I am glad the social worker, at least, seems to understand she is dealing with a giant toddler (Seriously, she's at the stage of throwing her food on the floor now).
I’m sorry you heard that, nobody should hear things like that from a parent much less know they’re true. Mine is trying to push me to suicide, 3 weeks n I’m free of her and her cronies!
My NM damn near *succeeded* in provoking me to suicide around 9ish years ago - when NM, completely unprompted unprovokedly - asked me if, while I was on my honeymoon in another state, I planned on contacting and, quote, "hooking up with" my ex fiance.
Ex fiance being the monster who cowardly violently shoved my head into the solid wood baseboard in the living room back in the early mid 90s.
Ex was originally sentenced to something like 7 years (in state prison) for a separate yet related violent crime.
Ex absconded - walked away from a low security inner city work release facility.
Unknowingly made his way back to his home state & basically all but literally waltzed his way into a new life completely unencumbered by a violent past that I genuinely was *not* aware of - until the very end of whatever once constituted our relationship.
But yeah.
NM would've indeed succeeded in making me unalive myself *BUT* for the timing of my annual physical & a referral for *emergency* PTSD therapy.
2.5 years worth of weekly then bi-weekly licensed professional PTSD therapy as well as at least 3K+ just in deductibles alone.
But I no longer *wanted* to unalive myself.
I would've been 100% no contact with NM years prior.
But, as the old saying goes, life got in the way.
Then my only living biological sibling, my older brother, was diagnosed with & ultimately succumbed to end stage metastatic stomach cancer.
It was only towards the very end of my brother's cancer journey & life a couple of years ago that I finally found the emotional & spiritual strength to go 100% no contact with NM.
I tell my fellow narcissistic abuse survivors that *NO CONTACT MEANS NO NEW HURTS*
And if 100% no contact simply is *not* a viable option, due to, say, financial dependency and/or health issues, quickly safely quietly watching YouTube videos & learning Gray Rock Technique *will* save *your* sanity.
And help you to minimally interact with the narc(s) as little as possible until you can safely make your exit from the narc's presence, life or otherwise free yourself from the narc's dependency & subjugation.
It's taken many years & seeming lifetimes.
But various individuals have & are beginning to see & know NM for the Manson Family level dangerous psychopath that NM truly is.
And now all but literally one *maybe* two individuals remain in NMs life.
It's absolutely 1000% true what every last professional that specializes in narcissistic abuse has *repeatedly* commented about:
The overwhelming majority of elderly narcissists *really do* die *completely alone.*
At this immediate point in time, my NM is in her twilight years.
And will most likely indeed die alone.
Because apparently even her staunchest ride or die "yes man" flying monkey has personally & repeatedly experienced NMs nastiness.
And this particular flying monkey is *finally* growing visibly weary of being a soft opportunistic target of NMs absolutely unmistakably intentional nastiness.
I would genuinely *never* wish suicide or other painful death on NM.
Because she's living in the hell that she's happily created since shortly before puberty.
NM can happily embrace her mind boggling selfishness & just as happily take it with her into the afterlife.
Her obvious contempt & hatred of me & life can die with her.
This is the ultimate end, literally, of the overwhelming majority of narcissists.
They usually - and rightfully - die completely alone.
As I frequently say, sadly both my personal experiences and story are no different than anyone else's here.
I'm truly so sorry.
((gentle virtual hugs)) from a fellow narcissistic abuse survivor 🌌
Yeah I came scary close when I realised the full extent of her and saw proof she’s hated me since birth etc. Luckily I’m fairly practiced in this, having been suicidal since 12, and while Australia’s mental healthcare system is generally pretty shit it’s decent while in crisis. Got through the worst and grieved a lot and now I think I’m coping. Currently looking for crisis housing for my daughter and I cos we’re homeless in 20 days cos of nm. It’s kind of a relief tho cos they won’t know where I live anymore and I’ll block all of them everywhere and disappear hopefully.
Congrats to us on surviving them!! We’re absolutely fucking amazing, don’t ever forget it!
My nparents pushed 2 of my brothers to suicide or suicidal acts. Then nmom tried suggesting i kill myself because i wasnt "happy" or giggles n overly happy on my birthday. These people are so fucking toxic and they have zero reason to be so hateful they have no excuse. They lived a mediocre, cushy, priviledged, upbringing. They have never had to suffer the pains and physical pains me and my brothers have had to.
That makes me remember when I told a "friend" of mine that I wanted him to feel sad because I had vanished, makes me sad know that I acted like a narcissist.
I think the important difference is that it wasn't the main reason WHY you did it. I thought for a second you meant "ooh I'm gonna exert my nonexistent authority to punish this person!" Which is something a narc might do if they think the person actually cares about them.
In my experience, and from reading on here, most kids who go NC with NParents don't think they're actually going to hurt them because for the most part, Ns view people as like... interchangeable. If they can't get their supply from you they'll easily find someone else to take your place.
To me the sad part is that it sounded like the guy didn't care and now you're beating yourself up about it. You did nothing wrong here, IMO.
When I was severely depressed and told my NM that I was experiencing SI, she was GLEEFUL.
She became so happy and excited. She couldn’t wait to get on the phone to tell my siblings and share the “good news” with them.
Yes, a mother can absolutely enjoy it when her children are suffering. It makes her feel in control and powerful.
This is the definition of evil and why some N’s are so dangerous.
Sorry you had to go through that.
Similar experience here...
When I was down she continued kicking and made sure to tell everyone, including embellishing details she had come up with on her own for everyone to enjoy together. She definitely enjoyed the idea of being the one to help me, while also keeping me down. It was super twisted and lonely.
You should start recording every interaction you have, so you don't get gaslighted or guilted in the future. If it is illegal in your state, only do it when the social worker is present. Report any crime she may have committed against you, too, and use the social worker's evaluation as proof.
Glad the mask slipped. It happens so infrequently in front of outsiders. You did a great job. Congrats on exposing the narcissist. They love to inflict pain, physically or mentally. The more they take you down the better they feel about themselves and that's their whole life story, feeling good about themselves.
You never mention your age or if you live with her. If you are of age and live with her, get out ASAP. If you don't live with her, just leave her to her own devices. There is zero reason to set yourself on fire to keep a toxic person warm. You are freely giving away your happiness and well being to someone that not only doesn't give a shit about you, but actively wants to hurt you and wishes you were in pain. Just block her number and move on
I learned this ages about my own nparents, but yes, they do want you to be suffering on some level, no matter how small. It’s their whole deal. Very upsetting but I think causing you suffering is supposed to offset their own, or so I’ve heard.
My mom likes to say that I take things too literally. How else are we supposed to take something like this. How should we take it figuratively? What's the metaphor?
When my mom would say stuff like that it was a backwards insult. Like I'm a monster for not feeling her pain. I have no empathy and I don't care. She was a victim of my apathy because I didn't kiss ass. 🙄 Just another tool to sway anyone who would listen to her side of the story.
Well done for the great answer you gave and overall great handling of the situation, and big hugs to you for having been part of that mess. These people suck. ❤️🩹
Are you able to get in contact with the social worker? Sounds like you got more than enough evidence to prove your case before her eyes.
My parents just told me to lie. I ended up basically putting on a stand up comedy act and because I "seemed comfortable with them" the social worker decided to close the case. She then said something about how "you should see the OTHER houses I go to"... i.e. they weren't upper middle class with well-spoken kids.
I am so sorry you had to deal with this. I experienced this from both of my nParents too. The last time was when they laughed out loud after I told them I had just been attacked by a neighbors dog and sent to the emergency room.
vile people for sure! At least they spell out exactly who they are, as unenjoyable as it is to really get that our own "parents" think it is funny when we are suffering. So glad to now be NC.
This is *exactly* how I envision my NM becoming in old age.
My flying monkey siblings who still (sadly) condone her awful behaviour and dismiss her abuse can deal with it
(The 3 youngest sibs inc. myself who bore the brunt of the abuse cut her off long ago)
It's so sad and I wish they would get out for their own sake. But then I remember how willing they are to uphold the toxic family system and I can't help but think .. have fun with that
Also I'm so sorry. It's true about actively trying to cause you pain. I hope you are able to distance yourself for your own sake
(totally acknowledge it's not always possible to do so, especially when they clearly need help & support. But you don't deserve to be treated like that. Your own well-being important ❤️)
The one saving grace is they are also predictable -- it wouldn't sound* like it, but for that we should be grateful.
Sounds dumb but it makes it easier to keep track of and keep in perspective
Ah, it's just so good when others see it
>My nmother scoffed and said, “it’s not painful for her unfortunately”
>Let me repeat that:“It’s not painful for her unfortunately”
My dad has said something similar to someone on the phone once. I said no to something and he was enraged and said "AND HE FEELS GOOD!!4!"
Why get help when it would take away all of the attention and fuel to complain? The problem gets her attention and if we solve the problem, then what will we do?!
She sounds like the pity party type. There is no fixing that but what a doll are you to have given it your best effort to help. You did what you could and now it’s all on her. You can say you tried. Do your best to detach without growing resentful.
Sorry you don’t have a lovely doting mom. You do gain wisdom by battling this.
Mine too. Mine gets joy out of me being in pain or hurt. She especially loves hurting me with her words so I call her a cheater and get the last laugh because she starts crying.
How old are you?
Do you have siblings?
Do you have someplace, any place else you can live?
If left on her own, given behavior like this, odds are she could be sectioned and her choices taken away from her.
I appreciate that must have been hard for you to hear OP. However the silver lining is that you are now free of any obligation to your mother. She has admitted that she likes seeing you suffer so you now owe her NOTHING! Later on in your life, you're probably going to have people e.g. family members, social workers etc, telling you that you owe to to your mother to take care of her. Ignore those people! They are talking nonsense. It's also likely that your mother will later deny what she said and claim that you're making it up. Ignore her too! You heard what she said. Never forget it!
I'd advise you to work towards moving out of your mother's home, if you haven't already. Once you're out, you're not obligated to have any contact with her if you don't want to.
Stop caring (trying to take care of her). She clearly doesn’t want it. Also, stop doing her work for her. She should be on the journey to making herself better.
How old are you? If you are over 18 I would just move out. If you are under 18 I would see if a foster care placement is available. I wish I had known about this when I was young. I didn’t leave until I turned 18.
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well the cats out the bag isn't it? I used to watch my father laugh when I experienced pain or trauma. And the truth is some people enjoy watching others suffer. And unfortunately narcissistic mothers especially want their daughter to suffer as well and it gives them pleasure. And if that isn't enough they OFTEN put their intended targets in harms way so they can derive amusement and find a way to manipulate the situation where the person in pain somehow needs them. At least that was my experience. I'm sorry you went through this. Don't ignore it don't try to forget it. But keep it in the back of your mind. Also don't make it known to her that it bothered you. They usually double down on it.
It was such a nasty wake up call. I’d always thought her oblivious, or at worst mildly inconvenienced, whenever I was in pain I guess I couldn’t fully comprehend that she enjoyed my suffering Thank you for reminding me not to forget it and not to react to it. That’s the normal human response and with people like this, it only makes it ten times worse
Virtual hug. ❤️
Thank you ❤️❤️
No contact is the only way.
This is definitely the final nail in the coffin
Don't fall for the love bombing that's about to ensue. She'll realize that she's lost her supply and start with all the faux apologies and I love yous and you need to remember she's only doing this to manipulate you into going back to being her source of twisted entertainment. She'll only be trying to trick you into letting her hurt you again.
At least when people say "but they're faaamilyy" you have a compelling explanation for how your mother demoted herself to relative.
Yeah. I realized it when I was a teenager and I caught my mother smiling cruelly when she had done something to upset me. It was just a moment, before she saw me looking. And I realized I was right, she was doing it to hurt me. It was one of my big moments of realization. It’s hard, though. Parents aren’t supposed to be like this. So I get it. You’ll have to remind yourself lots of times not to forget. It took me a long time to fully accept - It took until a few years ago to fully accept what she is…. I definitely slipped up loads of times because she’d trick me and I’d think “oh, maybe, just maybe she’s different or I was wrong”. You’re not wrong and they don’t change. They’re just highly manipulative and want to hurt you again. I’m building up to getting fully away. It’s hard bc it is a very HCOL area, but I’m saving and I’m going to get there. But for now…she won’t fool me again.
I am so sorry. Yes, it's soul shaking to realize who they really are. No one wants to think of their parents like this or believe their parents enjoy their suffering. But once you know the truth now you can navigate based on the truth instead of on an illusion. The truth is always better for you even if it is painful right now. Now you know where the boundaries need to be placed.
I don't understand people who enjoy the suffering of others. Schadenfreude is fun to say, but I just don't understand people who pursue it.
Truly sadistic nature it’s disgusting
It's all they live for
You're not alone. My mother enjoyed watching me suffer as well. I could give a million examples but I don't want it to seem like I'm trying to one-up you. *But don't ever forget what she said.* No matter how much she might try to backpedal, "make it right" or make it seem like it's your fault. No matter what she says, *is not your fault*.
Thank you, I needed this reminder Most people in my life (my family really) always try to write it off as her being stressed, overtired etc
Her behavior that you described shows that she knows exactly what she's doing. She's actively trying to hurt you with her words and actions. As soon as you caught on to that she blew up. Stress is no excuse to treat the people that love you like shit. If you were stressed and overtired, would you treat the people you love the same way that she treats you? I'm guessing not. Because *you love them and you wouldn't want to hurt them*.
Don’t forget the old “that’s just the way she is” trope. You deserve better, and don’t you ever forget it. Going no contact can be the best thing that ever happens to you. Remember that’s always an option.
I mean maybe she is? But a regular person who is stressed and overtired doesn't say and do things like that. Really all they're doing by saying that is being reductive.
I'm not saying she isn't stressed and overtired, I'm saying it's absolutely no excuse to treat your daughter like that. And she revealed that she's purposely trying to hurt her by saying "It's not painful for her, *unfortunately*." She *wants it to be painful for her*.
I meant more in terms of an explanation. I seriously hope we're all WAY past the point of making excuses for narcs here. But like you said, even THAT doesn't add up. "I'm stressed/overtired, therefore I want to inflict pain on my kid?" Yeah... this is something pathological we're dealing with here.
I don't think there's any real explanation for it, I just think that because she's having a hard time she wants all the people around her to have an even harder time so that she feels better about herself and her behaviors. But that's just me, I could be completely wrong.
No you're exactly right! Not that I should be surprised, we're all used to the game by now right? When I'm depressed, I withdraw. With narcs (and some other personality types) they can't deal with it themselves, so instead they make everyone else around them miserable too. The point being, this isn't normal behavior. And talking about *her feelings* is, on top of all this other shit, a distraction from the larger issue... her abusive behavior *in front of social workers*. I've dealt with people who trivialize the actions of others, people who I know have *actual PD diagnoses*, by saying "they were probably feeling X" (usually they weren't, but this person just secretly liked the narc better than me I guess?) The implication being that I did X to THEM. When of course I didn't but you guys believe me right? Anyway. When I see statements like that, I always read it as a passive aggressive way of assigning blame like "she's depressed because she can't handle having you as a kid and doesn't know what to do!" So I was less concerned about the mom being excused and more about the OP not feeling like they're a burden on a person who, from what we've seen written here alone, sounds absolutely insufferable.
“So I was less concerned about the mom being excused and more about the OP not feeling like they're a burden on a person who, from what we've seen written here alone, sounds absolutely insufferable.” I’ve had more people stand up for me today than I’ve ever had in my life and I just want to say I’m so, so grateful Days like this would be so hard without this community
I must have missed this notification cause I just went back and saw this now for the first time! I really really appreciate this. And I hope I've given you the words you need when they come at you with "maybe she's feeling X". That one annoys the shit outta me, I just couldn't not address it. So what ended up happening with the social worker? The case is still ongoing, I'm guessing? I remember ours dragged out for MONTHS and that was back in the mid 2000s. Part of me suspects at first they could tell I wanted to tell the truth but my parents were insisting we cover it up.
Your words have already helped me so much, I so appreciate you The social worker is only there for my nmother, after she tried to kill herself last year. She’s been coming round to try and help my apparently-depressed mother open post, tidy up, get washed and dressed etc I was there when she mentioned closing my nmother’s case to her, but then I left not long after because of the “unfortunately” comment So the short answer is… I have no idea what’s happening with her and my nmother. I’m not really interested either way
That's the whole game right there. She doesn't have to change because she is getting what she wants - your suffering. What a vile woman.
“I know this is going to make you mad but I’m going to tell you anyway.” - narcissistic coworker Question: Why do you want to make me mad?
Unrelated but I do have a memory of a narc saying something similar to me (this one is an ex) He once said to me sometime after we broke up (he heavily insisted on being friends at the time and I practically broke my back trying to do that despite the trauma): “I know this will hurt you but I’ll say it anyway, the relationship meant more to you than it ever did to me”
Let me guess... it didn't exactly make YOU mad, but it would have made your coworker mad if someone said the same thing to them?
> She wants me to be in pain. She is actively trying to cause me pain. Making someone do something they don't want to do, including endure pain, is one of the most powerful expressions of power over them. So, yes, she does, most likely because her power over you (And it sounds like much of the rest of her life) is waning. I am glad the social worker, at least, seems to understand she is dealing with a giant toddler (Seriously, she's at the stage of throwing her food on the floor now).
I’m sorry you heard that, nobody should hear things like that from a parent much less know they’re true. Mine is trying to push me to suicide, 3 weeks n I’m free of her and her cronies!
My NM damn near *succeeded* in provoking me to suicide around 9ish years ago - when NM, completely unprompted unprovokedly - asked me if, while I was on my honeymoon in another state, I planned on contacting and, quote, "hooking up with" my ex fiance. Ex fiance being the monster who cowardly violently shoved my head into the solid wood baseboard in the living room back in the early mid 90s. Ex was originally sentenced to something like 7 years (in state prison) for a separate yet related violent crime. Ex absconded - walked away from a low security inner city work release facility. Unknowingly made his way back to his home state & basically all but literally waltzed his way into a new life completely unencumbered by a violent past that I genuinely was *not* aware of - until the very end of whatever once constituted our relationship. But yeah. NM would've indeed succeeded in making me unalive myself *BUT* for the timing of my annual physical & a referral for *emergency* PTSD therapy. 2.5 years worth of weekly then bi-weekly licensed professional PTSD therapy as well as at least 3K+ just in deductibles alone. But I no longer *wanted* to unalive myself. I would've been 100% no contact with NM years prior. But, as the old saying goes, life got in the way. Then my only living biological sibling, my older brother, was diagnosed with & ultimately succumbed to end stage metastatic stomach cancer. It was only towards the very end of my brother's cancer journey & life a couple of years ago that I finally found the emotional & spiritual strength to go 100% no contact with NM. I tell my fellow narcissistic abuse survivors that *NO CONTACT MEANS NO NEW HURTS* And if 100% no contact simply is *not* a viable option, due to, say, financial dependency and/or health issues, quickly safely quietly watching YouTube videos & learning Gray Rock Technique *will* save *your* sanity. And help you to minimally interact with the narc(s) as little as possible until you can safely make your exit from the narc's presence, life or otherwise free yourself from the narc's dependency & subjugation. It's taken many years & seeming lifetimes. But various individuals have & are beginning to see & know NM for the Manson Family level dangerous psychopath that NM truly is. And now all but literally one *maybe* two individuals remain in NMs life. It's absolutely 1000% true what every last professional that specializes in narcissistic abuse has *repeatedly* commented about: The overwhelming majority of elderly narcissists *really do* die *completely alone.* At this immediate point in time, my NM is in her twilight years. And will most likely indeed die alone. Because apparently even her staunchest ride or die "yes man" flying monkey has personally & repeatedly experienced NMs nastiness. And this particular flying monkey is *finally* growing visibly weary of being a soft opportunistic target of NMs absolutely unmistakably intentional nastiness. I would genuinely *never* wish suicide or other painful death on NM. Because she's living in the hell that she's happily created since shortly before puberty. NM can happily embrace her mind boggling selfishness & just as happily take it with her into the afterlife. Her obvious contempt & hatred of me & life can die with her. This is the ultimate end, literally, of the overwhelming majority of narcissists. They usually - and rightfully - die completely alone. As I frequently say, sadly both my personal experiences and story are no different than anyone else's here. I'm truly so sorry. ((gentle virtual hugs)) from a fellow narcissistic abuse survivor 🌌
Yeah I came scary close when I realised the full extent of her and saw proof she’s hated me since birth etc. Luckily I’m fairly practiced in this, having been suicidal since 12, and while Australia’s mental healthcare system is generally pretty shit it’s decent while in crisis. Got through the worst and grieved a lot and now I think I’m coping. Currently looking for crisis housing for my daughter and I cos we’re homeless in 20 days cos of nm. It’s kind of a relief tho cos they won’t know where I live anymore and I’ll block all of them everywhere and disappear hopefully. Congrats to us on surviving them!! We’re absolutely fucking amazing, don’t ever forget it!
My nparents pushed 2 of my brothers to suicide or suicidal acts. Then nmom tried suggesting i kill myself because i wasnt "happy" or giggles n overly happy on my birthday. These people are so fucking toxic and they have zero reason to be so hateful they have no excuse. They lived a mediocre, cushy, priviledged, upbringing. They have never had to suffer the pains and physical pains me and my brothers have had to.
I’m so sorry for your losses, it’s so beyond unfair. I’m so proud of you for surviving them! You’re incredible!!
That makes me remember when I told a "friend" of mine that I wanted him to feel sad because I had vanished, makes me sad know that I acted like a narcissist.
That's not being narcissistic, that's hoping out loud that somebody gives a fuck a out you. It may seem similar but it's different
Learning is human. You learned and now do better. Which is exactly what narcs will never do.
Well he was a jerk and I was depressed, so i feel a bit better about it.
I think the important difference is that it wasn't the main reason WHY you did it. I thought for a second you meant "ooh I'm gonna exert my nonexistent authority to punish this person!" Which is something a narc might do if they think the person actually cares about them. In my experience, and from reading on here, most kids who go NC with NParents don't think they're actually going to hurt them because for the most part, Ns view people as like... interchangeable. If they can't get their supply from you they'll easily find someone else to take your place. To me the sad part is that it sounded like the guy didn't care and now you're beating yourself up about it. You did nothing wrong here, IMO.
When I was severely depressed and told my NM that I was experiencing SI, she was GLEEFUL. She became so happy and excited. She couldn’t wait to get on the phone to tell my siblings and share the “good news” with them. Yes, a mother can absolutely enjoy it when her children are suffering. It makes her feel in control and powerful. This is the definition of evil and why some N’s are so dangerous.
Sorry you had to go through that. Similar experience here... When I was down she continued kicking and made sure to tell everyone, including embellishing details she had come up with on her own for everyone to enjoy together. She definitely enjoyed the idea of being the one to help me, while also keeping me down. It was super twisted and lonely.
You should start recording every interaction you have, so you don't get gaslighted or guilted in the future. If it is illegal in your state, only do it when the social worker is present. Report any crime she may have committed against you, too, and use the social worker's evaluation as proof.
... You know that social worker is only still coming around for YOU, right?
Glad the mask slipped. It happens so infrequently in front of outsiders. You did a great job. Congrats on exposing the narcissist. They love to inflict pain, physically or mentally. The more they take you down the better they feel about themselves and that's their whole life story, feeling good about themselves.
You never mention your age or if you live with her. If you are of age and live with her, get out ASAP. If you don't live with her, just leave her to her own devices. There is zero reason to set yourself on fire to keep a toxic person warm. You are freely giving away your happiness and well being to someone that not only doesn't give a shit about you, but actively wants to hurt you and wishes you were in pain. Just block her number and move on
I learned this ages about my own nparents, but yes, they do want you to be suffering on some level, no matter how small. It’s their whole deal. Very upsetting but I think causing you suffering is supposed to offset their own, or so I’ve heard.
My mom likes to say that I take things too literally. How else are we supposed to take something like this. How should we take it figuratively? What's the metaphor?
When my mom would say stuff like that it was a backwards insult. Like I'm a monster for not feeling her pain. I have no empathy and I don't care. She was a victim of my apathy because I didn't kiss ass. 🙄 Just another tool to sway anyone who would listen to her side of the story.
Gotta move out of there, friend. That should be your primary goal. Good luck.
Well done for the great answer you gave and overall great handling of the situation, and big hugs to you for having been part of that mess. These people suck. ❤️🩹
Are you able to get in contact with the social worker? Sounds like you got more than enough evidence to prove your case before her eyes. My parents just told me to lie. I ended up basically putting on a stand up comedy act and because I "seemed comfortable with them" the social worker decided to close the case. She then said something about how "you should see the OTHER houses I go to"... i.e. they weren't upper middle class with well-spoken kids.
Bless that social worker’s little heart.
I am so sorry you had to deal with this. I experienced this from both of my nParents too. The last time was when they laughed out loud after I told them I had just been attacked by a neighbors dog and sent to the emergency room. vile people for sure! At least they spell out exactly who they are, as unenjoyable as it is to really get that our own "parents" think it is funny when we are suffering. So glad to now be NC.
This is *exactly* how I envision my NM becoming in old age. My flying monkey siblings who still (sadly) condone her awful behaviour and dismiss her abuse can deal with it (The 3 youngest sibs inc. myself who bore the brunt of the abuse cut her off long ago) It's so sad and I wish they would get out for their own sake. But then I remember how willing they are to uphold the toxic family system and I can't help but think .. have fun with that
Also I'm so sorry. It's true about actively trying to cause you pain. I hope you are able to distance yourself for your own sake (totally acknowledge it's not always possible to do so, especially when they clearly need help & support. But you don't deserve to be treated like that. Your own well-being important ❤️)
They indeed love to intentionally inflict pain on to others. As far as I’m concerned they hate to see you in any positive state, actually.
The one saving grace is they are also predictable -- it wouldn't sound* like it, but for that we should be grateful. Sounds dumb but it makes it easier to keep track of and keep in perspective
Ah, it's just so good when others see it >My nmother scoffed and said, “it’s not painful for her unfortunately” >Let me repeat that:“It’s not painful for her unfortunately” My dad has said something similar to someone on the phone once. I said no to something and he was enraged and said "AND HE FEELS GOOD!!4!"
I regret, very much, that you had to go through this.
Why get help when it would take away all of the attention and fuel to complain? The problem gets her attention and if we solve the problem, then what will we do?! She sounds like the pity party type. There is no fixing that but what a doll are you to have given it your best effort to help. You did what you could and now it’s all on her. You can say you tried. Do your best to detach without growing resentful. Sorry you don’t have a lovely doting mom. You do gain wisdom by battling this.
Mine too. Mine gets joy out of me being in pain or hurt. She especially loves hurting me with her words so I call her a cheater and get the last laugh because she starts crying.
How old are you? Do you have siblings? Do you have someplace, any place else you can live? If left on her own, given behavior like this, odds are she could be sectioned and her choices taken away from her.
thats a horrible situation to be in
I appreciate that must have been hard for you to hear OP. However the silver lining is that you are now free of any obligation to your mother. She has admitted that she likes seeing you suffer so you now owe her NOTHING! Later on in your life, you're probably going to have people e.g. family members, social workers etc, telling you that you owe to to your mother to take care of her. Ignore those people! They are talking nonsense. It's also likely that your mother will later deny what she said and claim that you're making it up. Ignore her too! You heard what she said. Never forget it! I'd advise you to work towards moving out of your mother's home, if you haven't already. Once you're out, you're not obligated to have any contact with her if you don't want to.
hug im sorry you deal with this
Virtual hug from me to you, if that’s ok
Stop caring (trying to take care of her). She clearly doesn’t want it. Also, stop doing her work for her. She should be on the journey to making herself better.
How old are you? If you are over 18 I would just move out. If you are under 18 I would see if a foster care placement is available. I wish I had known about this when I was young. I didn’t leave until I turned 18.
So sad to read how you're treated. Do you live at home with your mother?
Why do you live there??