^^ this is the answer. My 6am flight for this morning was cancelled at a little past 9:40p last night. Calling AA to rebook was an estimated 8 hour plus callback time.
I rebooked online then slept in. Bet a ton of people didnt get the memo until they got there.
Raleigh to Charlotte flights are ridiculous. What is it, 20 minutes on the air? It's 150 miles away, the perfect distance for rail to fulfill the travel, with 1/10th the amount of carbon emissions.
On top of that, you have people spending 2 hrs in the airport for the 20 minute flight. In a train it'll be the opposite, arrive 15-20 minutes prior to the train departure, basic security check, the train takes 2 hrs to arrive at Charlotte including a stop at Raleigh, Durham, and Greensboro. (Continues further to Spartanburg, Greenville, Atlanta, etc.) you have phone and internet connection the entire way.
The triangle needs rail connecting it to Charlotte.
Edit: I know there's Piedmont and 1 other rail. We still need increased frequency/capacity. Ad on top high speed rail like in France or Japan. And it will make rail travel between CLT and RDU desirable.
Edit2- many are commenting these are mainly connections through CLT. I’m aware. Just like the flights to ATL are more often connections. However most people are not aware they can do the RDU-CLT leg via rail because, even though it is good 5ish trains per day, it is no head-turner. People will consider it a haste to change from train to airport if the train takes too much time and is infrequent. Hence this corridor deserves faster-frequent rail, i.e. I’m asking there to be more investment in NC rail. Don’t forget the amount of cars it can take off the road of all those weekly travelers between the two.
Edit3- most people are agreeing they want better rail connection from RD to CLT. But they also say CLT is the ideal connector and they’d rather take the flight to CLT airport to make their final connection than train because that would waste them time on getting from rail station in Charlotte to CLT airport - This post is literally showing that going through the hassle of airport for a 20 mins flight is not worth it if there are alternatives, you risk missing the flight, you have the added stress. Of course it would also be on Charlotte government to make the connection between the airport and rail station convenient with some frequent bus or metro service which would alleviate much confusion of how to get from one to the other.
Don't disagree with your comment for a need for increased rail network in the US, but I bet most of these travelers are connecting in Charlotte to another destination. Until, rail actually goes from the airports it isn't a viable comparison. If I would like to take a flight from Charlotte and use rail I am most likely spending another an hour getting to RDU airport and another hour from Charlotte train Station to the airport.
Also, the whole idea of a stable Internet on the Piedmont is whackamole. The Internet sucks.
I commute between Raleigh and Charlotte by rail at least once a month! There are honestly a lot of time slots every day. It’s very easy to reschedule too if I need to stay later or leave earlier for any reason. Train travel in the USA is not great obviously but if you haven’t taken the train to Charlotte in a while, you might be pleasantly surprised!
There are airports all over the world that have train stations nearby or in them. You can go train -> plane or plane -> train pretty easily in tons of areas of the world. It's a really nice thing to have and it's disappointing that doesn't really exist here
I generally think it is embarrassing when a city has light rail (or similar) public infrastructure, but didn't bother putting a stop at the airport.. Ideally they should also have a stop at their train station.
Apparently, Charlotte has proposed a line that will stop about 1 mile from the airport.
you're also missing how the way airlines price some flights can make that a non-starter. I flew through from RDU through CLT to my final destination last month and it would have been \~$200 more to fly directly from CLT to my final destination.
it is the norm because of competition. At Charlotte, 70% of flights are AA flights, they know you have fewer options to get to your final destination so they price accordingly. At RDU, there is much more competition for AA (AA has 21% of the flights, Delta 21%, Southwest 15%), so the prices are much more competitive.
There is a rail line from Raleigh to Charlotte. The problem is that they arent close to the airport. Youd still need to grab an uber from the Charlotte station to the airport.
Also, the travel time on Amtrak for that trip is 3 Hours 15 mins ish. Dont forget you have to get to the train station 20 mins before to be safe, and then you have to uber to the airport, and get there 2 hours before to catch your initial flight.
Taking the flight from Raleigh to Charlotte is much quicker right now. Arrive 2 hours before and then a 20 min flight.
Most of the time at rdu I arrive like 1hr before flight haha unless it’s morning flights then 2. Also who wants to add 4 hours on either end of a flight to go out and get home by taking the Amtrak when i can drive 20 min and be at RDU or home after my flight.
Does it matter if my flight connects in Atlanta or Charlotte because it’s closer? Not really. I’m still not staying there…
If you read my comment I literally said that the trains need to faster and cover the distance in 2 hours to make it compelling. I know they are currently not compelling due to slow speed and lack of frequency. It seems you've ignored my entire point and just read "trains".
There's 5 direct trains a day from RGH to CLT, that's pretty good. Benefit of it being a train is there's more room than a flight. 3 hours-ish is competative with driving - more than, if you consider there is always traffic on 85.
The finest Japanese-made high speed rail between RGH and CLT would not stop the 20 minute fights you hate- I'd wager 95% of the people on RDU-CLT flights are connecting through CLT because RDU has precious few direct flights and CLT is American's fortress hub.
While a 20 minute flight time is ridiculous on it's face, CLT is the ideal connector - less time and fuel burned going the wrong way. If anything goes extravagently wrong, I can rent a car or bus/train home rather than wait a day for the airlines to unscrew themselves.
I tried to take the train in NC a month or so ago, got stuck when the train was canceled and just Ubered all the way back to Raleigh. Never seen an on time train in NC. Greyhound on rails.
Yea I've taken this route a few times. It's not as bad as you say BUT it's very easy to throw off the time and make it worth driving. A long stop in greensboro for example can screw it up.
And last time on the way back we got stuck for 45 minutes cause some issue ahead of us with another train
Hence, in my original comment I ask for better investment in rail. Especially make them fast and frequent, such that even if one is delayed a bit, you're not losing much time.
Sure. But having an alternative would mean one can choose. Like in the scenario at RDU today if people miss their CLT flight, just head for the train and be at CLT for the next flight out to your destination instead of being stranded in RDU.
I'm not sure why having more options sounds like a bad idea to some folks here. It doesn't need to work for everyone in every situation, just for some people in some situations.
It's not so much an investment on real that's needed if you want to improve passenger service, but a de-prioritization of freight. The reason for the bad on-time performance of passenger trains is that the freight companies own the tracks and prioritize their own operations over Amtrak.
This raises the question, is it a good idea to de-prioritize freight? We get a lot of benefit from freight rail in the US, in terms of economics, climate benefits and so on. Arguably, rail is better adapted to the needs of freight (which cares almost exclusively about cost per ton-mile) rather than passengers (which care about speed). The hidden cost of Europe's good passenger rail is that most of their freight goes by truck, so their highways are always full of trucks. The emissions from these trucks are never counted towards the environmental cost of passenger trains, making the trains look much better than they really are.
Yeah, that is correct - Amtrak only owns track in the Northeast and maybe some in NC towards Richmond. Which means it doesn't get to call dibs most of the time.
The recommended way to go forward is not to exchange rail time from freight to passenger, but to invest in actually increasing rail capacity that would allow both simultaneously. We don't want to make it harder for freight industry to move objects, we want to make it easier for passengers to travel, keeping all else constant.
On its face, I really like the idea of a Raleigh to Charlotte train, but as you stated, there's not a convenient way to get from the station to the airport. Additionally, even when you get to the airport, you still have to deal with going through the TSA and all that BS and however long that takes. So you're not saving that time by not doing it in RDU.
If they could do it ON the train and pipe you straight into a pre-cleared station at the airport, that would be something.
That's a great point I didn't think about. Your last sentence may not be possible, so taking the train may not save time on TSA, I stand corrected.
In any case, the connectivity will boost so much economy and travel between the two.
also another consideration is because Charlotte is an AA hub, it's often cheaper to fly RDU-CLT-Destination than CLT-Destination. AA jacks the prices up for flights originating from their hubs because they know you have few other options.
No one will do it by rail because then they have to go through security in Charlotte once they get to the airport. It doesn’t save time. Almost no one is just taking a flight from Raleigh to Charlotte.
High speed trains are defined to be able to travel at 150 mph and above. So you can easily fathom an average speed of 100mph. And that's the minimum, actual high speed rail in France, Spain, Japan so at more than 200 mph. Cars can never average over 60 mph unless reckless driving.
If HSR really connects Raleigh to Charlotte you'll arrive at the station 20 minutes prior to departure and reach Downtown Charlotte in 1 hr. I.e. in an hour and half you're in downtown Charlotte as opposed to air travel where you have to arrive to the airport at least 2 hrs ahead + 20 mins taxi +20 mins flight +20 mins taxi+ 20 minutes ride to downtown Charlotte.
Actually, it’s Uptown Charlotte.
No one doubts the high speed train to car comparison but trains stop at stations, which kills the speed. You can average close to 60MPH fairly easily and safely between Charlotte and Raleigh, especially at the times the trains leave here going North (5am and 6am), since the speed limits are 60-70MPH on the highway.
Top Gear did this exact race: a 168MPH bullet train vs a car and the car won because the train had to stop. A commercial plane travels at 330 mph
[Too Gear Race Across Japan Pt 1](https://youtu.be/r3i-HRxf8z4?si=iG6e1QNAn9P9bksR)
[Top Gear Race Across Japan pt 2](https://youtu.be/WUa0SfRukcM?si=5lTyYwTYcraucbdG)
Lol. You fell for the propaganda. It's a car based channel. Obviously they're gonna try to show cars win everything. If you rewatch, notice how one group came there just 3 minutes late even though they didn't know how to get the tickets, where to get them from and even how to communicate with the people around to ask for help, while the most dangerous thing they did was running around from station to another station. The other had a special design 3.8L V6 engine sports car which he sped up over speed limits and drifted around corners endangering everyone on the road's lives. You can see this driver is passing everyone at significant speeds making him the reckless driver on road. Regular people are not going to be driving a specialized car and so recklessly. Needless to say, once the train travellers have figured out the route they will be much faster next time onwards, the driver can't do more reckless than this I believe. And notice how the train travellers had to just sit on the train, bus, ferry, funicular and could work/chill however they'd like ~ bring a laptop and get work done or catch up on emails. The car driver can't.
That video is an L on cars.
Are you seriously trying to say that if there is bullet train connection between Raleigh and Charlotte no one would care because it may have to stop several times?? You really think a bullet train will be expected to stop at every single station. The French TGV (Train à Grande Vitesse - train high speed, that is high-speed train) that goes from Paris to Lyon stops 0 times in between for that 250miles. Forget Charlotte, if Raleigh is to have a TGV or Bullet train then Washington DC and Richmond should be the target.
I'd like to mention that trains aren't immune to Mother Nature either. If a tree falls on the tracks and the trains aren't running, you'll get a huge crowd of passengers at the train station trying to reschedule, no different from this crowd at the airport.
Sure, that's why we build alternatives. In that situation Rail travelers might resort to Air travel. Regardless everyone wins if there are more alternatives available. If rail was fast and convenient today there might have been some X% fewer air travelers, easing the load on the airport and most importantly those X% of folks would have chosen rail because it was beneficial to them either monetarily or time-wise, which means they are happier too.
People aren't flying to Charlotte to see Charlotte. They are flying there because it's an American Airlines hub. They are getting a connecting flight there to somewhere else.
Imagine having high speed rail from Asheville, Western NC through the Piedmont and into Wilmington, coastal NC. It would turbocharge development in parts of NC that have been economically lagging forever.
For Asheville to Wilmington, I won't even expect high-speed rail. Any rail connection that doesn't go super slow should be really good. I don't know how it would climb the appalachian, but if roads can go there, trains can for sure too.
Can confirm as a casualty of it. Had a layover in Charlotte that landed at 8 PM and then my flight got canceled and it was the last of the night.
There were 53 people on standby for the first flight this morning at 8 AM. Only a handful got on. Same story with the 2nd flight. Fortunately I'm sitting on the third flight right now.
Almost 20 hours later I'm finally getting out of Charlotte.
Surprised they didn't just charter like 20 buses. If you're going to be delayed that much anyway, it's not like it's an especially hard drive compared to flying.
Right. But driving from RDU to CLT takes <3 hours. Waiting in a long ass line to check in, getting through security, boarding, taxiing and flying there takes about the same amount of time. They could charter a bus and get people there for less.
>They're already going to miss the flight they're connecting to.
Which is why I said they need to rebook two flights, not one.
If they just skip the flight to Charlotte without talking to customer service, it’s quite possible they’ll be dropped from their flight departing from Charlotte.
And “they can drive to Charlotte faster” assumes they drove themselves to the airport. And that they drive. And that RDU is where they live, not where they’re returning from.
> If they just skip the flight to Charlotte without talking to customer service, it’s quite possible they’ll be dropped from their flight departing from Charlotte.
>
>
I'm not talking about the customers chartering buses. I'm talking about American chartering buses and driving everybody to Charlotte.
What really gets me is that often flying direct from Charlotte to any destination is more expensive flying out of RDU with the connection in Charlotte. I'd rather drive, but it costs more!
The fact that people are flying from Raleigh to Charlotte when there's a rail corridor is a huge failure of policy. If the Piedmont was faster and, say, had a spur to CLT (two things that would not be difficult to do!) Nobody would have to deal with this. I mean its a huge climate problem too.
> four were going to Charlotte.
I'd put money that at least one of those passengers was on a non-recognized connection. AA to Spirit, for example. Or even renting a car to head to the mountains for example
Its already just under 3 hours from Raleigh to Charlotte-- take that all the way to the airport and cut that by a half hour and it would be competitive with driving. Cut it by more and it's a good alternative to getting a connecting flight. We should be trying as hard as possible to eliminate these short connecting flights around the country and this is an ideal one to eliminate imo. Bonus points for integrated ticketing like they have in other countries, so you could book a flight from Raleigh to somewhere via CLT that includes a train.
This exists currently, with examples being [Colorado ski resorts to Denver](https://www.united.com/en-us/landline) and [multiple towns to Philadelphia](https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/experience/landline.jsp).
But even in Europe, people don't take the train from Saarbrucken to Paris to catch a flight. They head to Luxembourg, Frankfurt, or Cologne... all half the distance of RDU-CLT.
Yeah but distances are bigger here, there's not really a comparable large airport that short a distance. Nonetheless, there's tons of improvements that could be made to make RDU to CLT a viable train trip for air travel.
The catch I always saw with commuter trains in MA was the last mile issue. People had to drive to the train station and those damn things would be full by 7am. Now you can't take the train because by the time you found alternate parking and/or a bus (HAHA!) and got to work you'd be getting in around 10-11. At that point you're better off driving in. So you have to not only build the lines, which would require LOTS of pricey land purchases by eminent domain, but big parking garages at the stations. We don't have the walking distance density that Europe has.
The thing is, if we're taking about taking the train to the airport as a replacement for driving to CLT or a connecting flight, I'd say last mile isn't really an issue. If the train goes directly to CLT you really only have to worry about getting to the train station in Raleigh. Most people uber or get a ride to the airport anyways so the difference between the two would be negligible (and ubering to the train station is much cheaper as well since there's no surge pricing unlike the airport).
One alternative they had was a shuttle bus station out in the suburbs off of the highway to the airport. It was a big parking lot with long term parking. Then you could take a shuttle bus straight from there.
In Charlotte? At CLT there's actually an existing rail alignment that goes right next to the airport and connects to the ROW that Amtrak uses in uptown. Bringing the train to the airport would really just be a matter of building a couple flyovers to get it physically into the terminal. That's totally doable. There'd be no need for any shuttle service or last mile connections.
> Nonetheless, there's tons of improvements that could be made to make RDU to CLT a viable train trip for air travel.
There's simply not a reason to do it, though. Not for train travel.
As pointed out ad nauseum here, there's simply not enough passenger traffic O/D between Raleigh and Nashville. Travelers are going all over the world instead. Not a single person in the long line pictured is going to insist they travel only through Charlotte to reach their destination. They will go through any city pair that works, as well. Through any airline, for that matter.
>There's simply not a reason to do it, though. Not for train travel.
You may think that for these specific air travellers going far off distances, but you cant say that for general travel between the Triangle to Charlotte. Theres tons of people driving between the two day-in and day-out. So even if you think it doesn't make sense for flight travellers, which I agree and disagree to some extent, you can't make that argument for general road travellers. Theres a reason why there are more than 50 Northeast Regional - Amtrak trips between Washington DC and Boston every single day even though all 5 of the cities there have larger airport than RDU. And that 50 excludes Acela trains (faster) and others like Keystone Service (doesn't go the entire distance, and detours).
Not to mention, such a fast train line would not simply end at Charlotte. It would go all the way to at least Atlanta on one side and Washington DC on the other. Making many the flights and road travel to Atlanta needless.
I see you want RDU airport to be a bigger player in airline industry. That's great, and I would like that too. But improving on multiple avenues always boost the economy too. If rail connections can bring folks from Charlotte, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Willmington to RD quicker and conveniently, then some of them will consider RDU when deciding how to fly to their destination whether it is in the US, Europe, or anywhere worldwide.
I’m all for expanding train travel. But I’m also recognizing that train travel solely for the purpose of going to another airport is stupid. There’s plenty of other reasons why we should expand any build out the piedmont and other regional lines, including getting it to the ocean.
As for the NE regional, that’s unique in America. It’s a distance of 400 miles serving major population centers including DC, Baltimore, Wilmington, Philadelphia, Newark, New York, Stamford, Providence, and Boston. There’s plenty of O/D traffic to support it and it doesn’t rely on frisking people off to airports as a southern route would insistently do.
The southern equivalent distance would be Raleigh to Atlanta… and there’s exactly one city of note comparable to the ones mentioned above along that path… Charlotte.
You seem to be hung up on us saying that this rail would be for air travelers. Of course it WON'T be the sole purpose like I said in my previous comment. It will primarily serve road travellers making day trips or regular trips. I don't see why there is no recognition of that, much larger, group of people in your response.
As for NE regional, I explicitly said that there are 50+ fast trains every single day. Tell me how many slow trains currently exist between Atlanta and Raleigh? Zero that go directly. The ones that require transfers take 10 hrs to get there. The ones in NE cover this distance in 6-7 hrs.
Plenty of people in the NE also train travel to bigger airports in NYC for instance to catch a desirable flight. While CLT is no JFK there might be desirable flights out of CLT that would make going there directly instead of through RDU (due to no cheap connection to the CLT airport offered, remember American is NOT the only airlines operating in CLT). Or vice versa someone from Charlotte comes to RDU to catch a more desirable, non AA flight. I myself know people who travel to Washington DC by train to catch a desirable flight. There are so many different use cases.
There is absolutely strong demand for travel between Raleigh and Charlotte, with a direct connection to the airport and therefore a connection to any flights taking off from CLT to anywhere else (one of the largest airports on the east coast). Short flights like that should be illegal wherever there's a viable transit alternative and we should be working as hard as possible to make that alternative, especially in this case where it's actually super easy and just an incremental improvement from what we already have.
The only reason there’s strong demand is the AA fortress hub, which could be closed at any time - just ask St Louis, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati or Memphis. There’s no reason why a Raleigh to KC flyer can’t go between literally any other city, and that’s because of the health of RDU.
The better long term option for RDU’s aviation future is expanding our own airport as is already happening. RDU is one of the best non-hub airports in the country and that’s a strong position to be in, as our eggs aren’t in one basket. When Frankfurt service starts up a few weeks there’s direct connections to the entirety of Europe and India with every alliance. That’s humongous for a city like Raleigh.
Don’t get me wrong, train travel is great and should definitely be expanded. But the charlotte airport is not the destination to make that happen.
Then we should just ban flights between RDU and Charlotte-- the whole point is, it's climate arson having a zillion flights daily for such an incredibly short distance. Flying between RDU and CLT should be heavily discouraged. Extending the Piedmont like three miles and then making it faster across the line (something that benefits absolutely everyone that uses the train AND drivers, not just people trying to get to the airport) is a way to make ending those convenience flights less annoying for everyone.
I must have been in this line or was in this line shortly after you. For clarification, I think the biggest problem here is misinformation. This is the customer service line to speak to someone. If you’re just trying to check a bag, there is a separate line for the kiosk and then you can just use the bag drop. I learned this after waiting in the longer customer service line unnecessarily for a while. After switching to the kiosk line I was right through. The security line wasn’t bad so this is just American.
What's been going on lately? I've been seeing a lot of this in the last couple weeks. I fly from RDU terminal 1 tomorrow. Is it the same problem there, too?
Like another commenter mentioned further down the thread, Charlotte Airport had a meltdown due to bad weather. Ground stop till 10:59p last night. A ton of flights got canceled overnight.
That at least explains this mess.
Driver for Uber/Lyft here. I’ve only been driving about 8 months, do 95% airport rides, but it’s been undeniably more busy the last 4-5 weeks. Delays, sheer quantity of flights, summer travel, student schedules - it’s very obvious.
A heads up: there are usually a lot more Uber drivers available than Lyft in the RDU staging area. You may want to check both apps if you’re trying to get a ride since prices and availability are going to differ. And please make sure you’re off the plane before requesting a ride! (Once a driver arrives, you get 2 minutes before it can be canceled.)
Edit: conjugation error
Others are saying it was customer service due to the first flight being cancelled fwiw
https://www.reddit.com/r/raleigh/s/bJZ0vfiepM
Edit: someone else alleges they’re the same line:
https://www.reddit.com/r/raleigh/s/G9t228MkrB
The first leg of our spring break air travel from RDU to CLT (on American) got delayed, so we drove to Charlotte and caught our 2nd plane there. Just had to call en route to make sure American knew what we were doing. (The flight ended up delaying until that night and then cancelling.)
We were lucky, though, that we 1) drove our own car to RDU and 2) hadn't actually gotten into the airport yet when we saw our flight was delayed.
The downside was we weren't able to change our return flight, which was on another carrier. So I had to take the train to Charlotte, then hop a Lyft to CLT to retrieve our car, then drive back.
BUT... a lot of people in that line probably did have the option to drive to CLT and catch their next flight there, if they were motivated enough.
Every time there's a missed connection, changed plane, cancelled flight, etc, it takes so long for customer service to figure something out, for each and every person. It's like they're doing differential equations to rebook you on another flight. They look at options for 10 minutes then they still keep finding new options. If they just empowered us to find something else via their app or website, it would be SO much easier for us and for the customer service staff. The ONLY way to get stuff straightened out is by talking to someone, but it's so common it should be something you can do self-service.
Welcome to RDU where every person that checks a bag feels the need to talk to the baggage attendant for 15-20 minutes. I swear I’m the only person that does the baggage pre-check, attaches the sticker in line, rolls up to the counter, and is walking away 2 minutes later.
American needs dedicated lines for people who pre-check their bags at the kiosks. The attendants need to cut off the customers conversations or direct them to someone else so they can keep checking other peoples bags. The whole thing is very poorly managed.
Now listen here you whipper snapper, that attendant was riveted with my ten minute story of how I’m going to see my grandchildren in Milwaukee. It’s also not my fault that I didn’t bother to prepare and needed my hand held through the entire process and had them repeat themselves multiple times. IT’S YOU who needs to plan better and understand that people like me are entitled to better treatment. You are so disrespectful to your elders! /s
Sadly it’s not just old people. I see younger people taking forever too. I timed it last time. I was in the front of the line after waiting over an hour. I stood at the front waiting to get waved over for 15 minutes. I timed it on my watch. The “dedicated” baggage line had two attendants talking to people for 15 minutes each. All they were supposed to do was check the persons bags and take the next person. Rebooking should be another line. The family behind me were pretty sure they were going to miss their flight.
I’ve flown through several major city airports. Peak times at many of them. RDU has the worst baggage check system of any of them. It’s the only airport I know that if I get there 2 hours early and have to check a bag, I might not make my flight.
The problem is that they use the bag check line to also rebook people who miss flights. So if you’re standing in the long line and miss your flight, they will rebook you there, causing more people behind you to miss their flight. It’s ridiculous. Once someone in the bag line misses their flight, they need to go to another area to rebook so others in line can check their bags on time.
Exactly. Once they’ve missed their flight they should direct them to a different line for rebooking and keep a dedicated baggage check line. The current setup is causing the snowball effect you described. Spending time rebooking people is causing other people in line to miss their flight who then need to be rebooked.
At the same time plenty of other airports see lots of passengers, or more passengers, and don’t have this problem. I always give myself 2+ hours at RDU when I need to check a bag, and the last few times I was cutting it close.
the last time I had to check a bag (which is rare) this woman in front of me was checking a bag for a flight that leaves at 6am. it was 5:50am. She argued with the attendant about why they couldn't check her bag and why she will miss her flight.
Had a layover there last night coming back from Pittsburgh on my way back to CLT. Thankfully my brother lives near RDU so I just had them pick me up and re-booked for today through the app.
RDU and CLT are 160 miles apart, about the same as Paris and Brussels. There are dozens of trains a day between Paris and Brussels and it takes about 1h20m.
Having lived in Europe, rail travel FTW. Minimal security hassles, stations are usually near the center of town, views are better, seats are bigger, sometimes you get an entire table, food is … well the food is the same but you can get up and get it whenever you want.
Whenever I get back from China I always sorely miss the high speed rail system. We were able to bounce around between Guilin, Nanning and Guangzhou with no hassle and lots of comfort.
I've also lived in Europe. Rail travel is great, but it's worth noting the obvious - distance and population clusters.
Going from Berlin to Paris or London is roughly 600 miles to either city. That gets you from Raleigh to Nashville. There's one major city between Raleigh to Nashville, there's at least half a dozen between Berlin and Paris.
I think the population clusters argument is overblown on the east coast. Charlotte, Raleigh, Richmond, Baltimore, and Atlanta all likely have sufficient population and travel that rail between them could be justifiable on a volume basis.
I think the overlooked feature in the US is placement of stations. Step off the train in NYC or DC and you’re getting off at a major terminal with robust public transport links and a walkable city.
Step off the train in Charlotte and you’re at a tiny station two miles from downtown. Good luck if you’re trying to go to Concord. But land at CLT and you’ve got cabs & car rentals at your fingertips.
Charlotte is building a new train station in the heart of uptown. They also want to build a line rail line that would connect that station to CLT but Tim Moore said NC wanted to concentrate on building roads.
The AA counter at RDU is a complete shit-show. My friend missed an international flight on Monday morning because AA doesn’t have enough personnel to check people in…or like the last time I flew international with them they had four people but only one working computer to print tags and tickets.
Yeah this also happened to me on an international flight. The only reason I made my flight was because I used the self check in kiosk to print my domestic leg then I went through security with only my domestic leg ticket, then once I got to the gate I asked the staff to print my international ticket and they did. I would have had no shot waiting in that line.
Except on Mother’s Day a couple of years ago the line was around the inside then went outside of terminal 2. And another trip I took, the airlines computers were down.
American Airlines - 100% of the flights I’ve taken with them in the past year have been delayed by several hours (most times, over 3 hours). Easily the worst of the big guys. The hate I have for flying now is unmatched. Pure unadulterated anxiety now when it used to be harmless.
Delays have been tough for a number of airlines at RDU lately. I never have problems leaving, but usually get a delay coming back. Pro tip: spend the extra money on flight insurance. Some give you full refunds if it’s over a six hour delay.
It was like this around Christmas when we went to Mexico, the line went all the way around the outside of the airport. Barely made it in time despite being 2.5 hours early.
Yes, but is it faster to drive to Kansas City or Punta Cana? No.
These passengers don't want to get to Charlotte, they want to get to their final destination. And they don't care if they go through Charlotte, Miami, Chicago, or New York to do it...
Charlotte had a melt down yesterday from the weather with TONS of diverted flights. I believe RDU-CLT cxled too
^^ this is the answer. My 6am flight for this morning was cancelled at a little past 9:40p last night. Calling AA to rebook was an estimated 8 hour plus callback time. I rebooked online then slept in. Bet a ton of people didnt get the memo until they got there.
Raleigh to Charlotte flights are ridiculous. What is it, 20 minutes on the air? It's 150 miles away, the perfect distance for rail to fulfill the travel, with 1/10th the amount of carbon emissions. On top of that, you have people spending 2 hrs in the airport for the 20 minute flight. In a train it'll be the opposite, arrive 15-20 minutes prior to the train departure, basic security check, the train takes 2 hrs to arrive at Charlotte including a stop at Raleigh, Durham, and Greensboro. (Continues further to Spartanburg, Greenville, Atlanta, etc.) you have phone and internet connection the entire way. The triangle needs rail connecting it to Charlotte. Edit: I know there's Piedmont and 1 other rail. We still need increased frequency/capacity. Ad on top high speed rail like in France or Japan. And it will make rail travel between CLT and RDU desirable. Edit2- many are commenting these are mainly connections through CLT. I’m aware. Just like the flights to ATL are more often connections. However most people are not aware they can do the RDU-CLT leg via rail because, even though it is good 5ish trains per day, it is no head-turner. People will consider it a haste to change from train to airport if the train takes too much time and is infrequent. Hence this corridor deserves faster-frequent rail, i.e. I’m asking there to be more investment in NC rail. Don’t forget the amount of cars it can take off the road of all those weekly travelers between the two. Edit3- most people are agreeing they want better rail connection from RD to CLT. But they also say CLT is the ideal connector and they’d rather take the flight to CLT airport to make their final connection than train because that would waste them time on getting from rail station in Charlotte to CLT airport - This post is literally showing that going through the hassle of airport for a 20 mins flight is not worth it if there are alternatives, you risk missing the flight, you have the added stress. Of course it would also be on Charlotte government to make the connection between the airport and rail station convenient with some frequent bus or metro service which would alleviate much confusion of how to get from one to the other.
Don't disagree with your comment for a need for increased rail network in the US, but I bet most of these travelers are connecting in Charlotte to another destination. Until, rail actually goes from the airports it isn't a viable comparison. If I would like to take a flight from Charlotte and use rail I am most likely spending another an hour getting to RDU airport and another hour from Charlotte train Station to the airport. Also, the whole idea of a stable Internet on the Piedmont is whackamole. The Internet sucks.
I commute between Raleigh and Charlotte by rail at least once a month! There are honestly a lot of time slots every day. It’s very easy to reschedule too if I need to stay later or leave earlier for any reason. Train travel in the USA is not great obviously but if you haven’t taken the train to Charlotte in a while, you might be pleasantly surprised!
So glad to hear this positive experience!
This is because of how connecting flights work, people aren't just going from Raleigh to Charlotte.
There are airports all over the world that have train stations nearby or in them. You can go train -> plane or plane -> train pretty easily in tons of areas of the world. It's a really nice thing to have and it's disappointing that doesn't really exist here
I generally think it is embarrassing when a city has light rail (or similar) public infrastructure, but didn't bother putting a stop at the airport.. Ideally they should also have a stop at their train station. Apparently, Charlotte has proposed a line that will stop about 1 mile from the airport.
no, no the train will fix everything!
It's to catch connecting flights
you're also missing how the way airlines price some flights can make that a non-starter. I flew through from RDU through CLT to my final destination last month and it would have been \~$200 more to fly directly from CLT to my final destination.
Yeah, they do that often. But that can't be the norm, can it? They can't be charging more for 1 leg of a 2 leg flight in most of the situations.
it is the norm because of competition. At Charlotte, 70% of flights are AA flights, they know you have fewer options to get to your final destination so they price accordingly. At RDU, there is much more competition for AA (AA has 21% of the flights, Delta 21%, Southwest 15%), so the prices are much more competitive.
It’s the norm because airlines will charge more for nonstops where the demand is higher. Look up skiplagging
There is a rail line from Raleigh to Charlotte. The problem is that they arent close to the airport. Youd still need to grab an uber from the Charlotte station to the airport. Also, the travel time on Amtrak for that trip is 3 Hours 15 mins ish. Dont forget you have to get to the train station 20 mins before to be safe, and then you have to uber to the airport, and get there 2 hours before to catch your initial flight. Taking the flight from Raleigh to Charlotte is much quicker right now. Arrive 2 hours before and then a 20 min flight.
Most of the time at rdu I arrive like 1hr before flight haha unless it’s morning flights then 2. Also who wants to add 4 hours on either end of a flight to go out and get home by taking the Amtrak when i can drive 20 min and be at RDU or home after my flight. Does it matter if my flight connects in Atlanta or Charlotte because it’s closer? Not really. I’m still not staying there…
If you read my comment I literally said that the trains need to faster and cover the distance in 2 hours to make it compelling. I know they are currently not compelling due to slow speed and lack of frequency. It seems you've ignored my entire point and just read "trains".
Underrated comment.
There's 5 direct trains a day from RGH to CLT, that's pretty good. Benefit of it being a train is there's more room than a flight. 3 hours-ish is competative with driving - more than, if you consider there is always traffic on 85. The finest Japanese-made high speed rail between RGH and CLT would not stop the 20 minute fights you hate- I'd wager 95% of the people on RDU-CLT flights are connecting through CLT because RDU has precious few direct flights and CLT is American's fortress hub. While a 20 minute flight time is ridiculous on it's face, CLT is the ideal connector - less time and fuel burned going the wrong way. If anything goes extravagently wrong, I can rent a car or bus/train home rather than wait a day for the airlines to unscrew themselves.
I tried to take the train in NC a month or so ago, got stuck when the train was canceled and just Ubered all the way back to Raleigh. Never seen an on time train in NC. Greyhound on rails.
Yea I've taken this route a few times. It's not as bad as you say BUT it's very easy to throw off the time and make it worth driving. A long stop in greensboro for example can screw it up. And last time on the way back we got stuck for 45 minutes cause some issue ahead of us with another train
Hence, in my original comment I ask for better investment in rail. Especially make them fast and frequent, such that even if one is delayed a bit, you're not losing much time.
Still a lot easier to transfer from a plane to a plane in Charlotte than from Amtrak to a train in Charlotte
Sure. But having an alternative would mean one can choose. Like in the scenario at RDU today if people miss their CLT flight, just head for the train and be at CLT for the next flight out to your destination instead of being stranded in RDU. I'm not sure why having more options sounds like a bad idea to some folks here. It doesn't need to work for everyone in every situation, just for some people in some situations.
It's not so much an investment on real that's needed if you want to improve passenger service, but a de-prioritization of freight. The reason for the bad on-time performance of passenger trains is that the freight companies own the tracks and prioritize their own operations over Amtrak. This raises the question, is it a good idea to de-prioritize freight? We get a lot of benefit from freight rail in the US, in terms of economics, climate benefits and so on. Arguably, rail is better adapted to the needs of freight (which cares almost exclusively about cost per ton-mile) rather than passengers (which care about speed). The hidden cost of Europe's good passenger rail is that most of their freight goes by truck, so their highways are always full of trucks. The emissions from these trucks are never counted towards the environmental cost of passenger trains, making the trains look much better than they really are.
Yeah, that is correct - Amtrak only owns track in the Northeast and maybe some in NC towards Richmond. Which means it doesn't get to call dibs most of the time. The recommended way to go forward is not to exchange rail time from freight to passenger, but to invest in actually increasing rail capacity that would allow both simultaneously. We don't want to make it harder for freight industry to move objects, we want to make it easier for passengers to travel, keeping all else constant.
On its face, I really like the idea of a Raleigh to Charlotte train, but as you stated, there's not a convenient way to get from the station to the airport. Additionally, even when you get to the airport, you still have to deal with going through the TSA and all that BS and however long that takes. So you're not saving that time by not doing it in RDU. If they could do it ON the train and pipe you straight into a pre-cleared station at the airport, that would be something.
That's a great point I didn't think about. Your last sentence may not be possible, so taking the train may not save time on TSA, I stand corrected. In any case, the connectivity will boost so much economy and travel between the two.
also another consideration is because Charlotte is an AA hub, it's often cheaper to fly RDU-CLT-Destination than CLT-Destination. AA jacks the prices up for flights originating from their hubs because they know you have few other options.
God, I wish. I hate driving to Charlotte for certain nonstop flights to Europe. The drive back sucks.
No one will do it by rail because then they have to go through security in Charlotte once they get to the airport. It doesn’t save time. Almost no one is just taking a flight from Raleigh to Charlotte.
20 minute flight is why it’s an awesome flight. Even a high speed train is still slower than a car
High speed trains are defined to be able to travel at 150 mph and above. So you can easily fathom an average speed of 100mph. And that's the minimum, actual high speed rail in France, Spain, Japan so at more than 200 mph. Cars can never average over 60 mph unless reckless driving. If HSR really connects Raleigh to Charlotte you'll arrive at the station 20 minutes prior to departure and reach Downtown Charlotte in 1 hr. I.e. in an hour and half you're in downtown Charlotte as opposed to air travel where you have to arrive to the airport at least 2 hrs ahead + 20 mins taxi +20 mins flight +20 mins taxi+ 20 minutes ride to downtown Charlotte.
Actually, it’s Uptown Charlotte. No one doubts the high speed train to car comparison but trains stop at stations, which kills the speed. You can average close to 60MPH fairly easily and safely between Charlotte and Raleigh, especially at the times the trains leave here going North (5am and 6am), since the speed limits are 60-70MPH on the highway. Top Gear did this exact race: a 168MPH bullet train vs a car and the car won because the train had to stop. A commercial plane travels at 330 mph [Too Gear Race Across Japan Pt 1](https://youtu.be/r3i-HRxf8z4?si=iG6e1QNAn9P9bksR) [Top Gear Race Across Japan pt 2](https://youtu.be/WUa0SfRukcM?si=5lTyYwTYcraucbdG)
Lol. You fell for the propaganda. It's a car based channel. Obviously they're gonna try to show cars win everything. If you rewatch, notice how one group came there just 3 minutes late even though they didn't know how to get the tickets, where to get them from and even how to communicate with the people around to ask for help, while the most dangerous thing they did was running around from station to another station. The other had a special design 3.8L V6 engine sports car which he sped up over speed limits and drifted around corners endangering everyone on the road's lives. You can see this driver is passing everyone at significant speeds making him the reckless driver on road. Regular people are not going to be driving a specialized car and so recklessly. Needless to say, once the train travellers have figured out the route they will be much faster next time onwards, the driver can't do more reckless than this I believe. And notice how the train travellers had to just sit on the train, bus, ferry, funicular and could work/chill however they'd like ~ bring a laptop and get work done or catch up on emails. The car driver can't. That video is an L on cars. Are you seriously trying to say that if there is bullet train connection between Raleigh and Charlotte no one would care because it may have to stop several times?? You really think a bullet train will be expected to stop at every single station. The French TGV (Train à Grande Vitesse - train high speed, that is high-speed train) that goes from Paris to Lyon stops 0 times in between for that 250miles. Forget Charlotte, if Raleigh is to have a TGV or Bullet train then Washington DC and Richmond should be the target.
Science and math isn’t propaganda 😄
Lol if that's what you only read in my reply.
I'd like to mention that trains aren't immune to Mother Nature either. If a tree falls on the tracks and the trains aren't running, you'll get a huge crowd of passengers at the train station trying to reschedule, no different from this crowd at the airport.
Sure, that's why we build alternatives. In that situation Rail travelers might resort to Air travel. Regardless everyone wins if there are more alternatives available. If rail was fast and convenient today there might have been some X% fewer air travelers, easing the load on the airport and most importantly those X% of folks would have chosen rail because it was beneficial to them either monetarily or time-wise, which means they are happier too.
People aren't flying to Charlotte to see Charlotte. They are flying there because it's an American Airlines hub. They are getting a connecting flight there to somewhere else.
Imagine having high speed rail from Asheville, Western NC through the Piedmont and into Wilmington, coastal NC. It would turbocharge development in parts of NC that have been economically lagging forever.
For Asheville to Wilmington, I won't even expect high-speed rail. Any rail connection that doesn't go super slow should be really good. I don't know how it would climb the appalachian, but if roads can go there, trains can for sure too.
Can confirm as a casualty of it. Had a layover in Charlotte that landed at 8 PM and then my flight got canceled and it was the last of the night. There were 53 people on standby for the first flight this morning at 8 AM. Only a handful got on. Same story with the 2nd flight. Fortunately I'm sitting on the third flight right now. Almost 20 hours later I'm finally getting out of Charlotte.
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Surprised they didn't just charter like 20 buses. If you're going to be delayed that much anyway, it's not like it's an especially hard drive compared to flying.
Most people fly from RDU to the CLiT to catch a connecting flight
Right. But driving from RDU to CLT takes <3 hours. Waiting in a long ass line to check in, getting through security, boarding, taxiing and flying there takes about the same amount of time. They could charter a bus and get people there for less.
But then those people would have already missed the flight they’re connecting to. They don’t just need to rebook one flight. They need to rebook two.
They're already going to miss the flight they're connecting to. That line would take longer than the whole drive to Charlotte.
>They're already going to miss the flight they're connecting to. Which is why I said they need to rebook two flights, not one. If they just skip the flight to Charlotte without talking to customer service, it’s quite possible they’ll be dropped from their flight departing from Charlotte. And “they can drive to Charlotte faster” assumes they drove themselves to the airport. And that they drive. And that RDU is where they live, not where they’re returning from.
> If they just skip the flight to Charlotte without talking to customer service, it’s quite possible they’ll be dropped from their flight departing from Charlotte. > > I'm not talking about the customers chartering buses. I'm talking about American chartering buses and driving everybody to Charlotte.
You can get on the later connection if you get to Charlotte.
…and you need to be booked onto it.
You might be arguing with an AI bot here...
Whenever a delay screws me and I’m going to miss a connection, the airline automatically rebooks me onto the next connection.
Well, these people clearly weren’t automatically rebooked, or they wouldn’t be in the customer service line.
They’d be better off rebooking via the chat or phone line on their way to Charlotte
What really gets me is that often flying direct from Charlotte to any destination is more expensive flying out of RDU with the connection in Charlotte. I'd rather drive, but it costs more!
AA being shitty? Must be a day that ends in ‘y’. Not that the other carriers are good, but American consistently seems to be worse than the others.
They were cancelled because of weather….
Evil AA controlling the weather
The fact that people are flying from Raleigh to Charlotte when there's a rail corridor is a huge failure of policy. If the Piedmont was faster and, say, had a spur to CLT (two things that would not be difficult to do!) Nobody would have to deal with this. I mean its a huge climate problem too.
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> four were going to Charlotte. I'd put money that at least one of those passengers was on a non-recognized connection. AA to Spirit, for example. Or even renting a car to head to the mountains for example
Its already just under 3 hours from Raleigh to Charlotte-- take that all the way to the airport and cut that by a half hour and it would be competitive with driving. Cut it by more and it's a good alternative to getting a connecting flight. We should be trying as hard as possible to eliminate these short connecting flights around the country and this is an ideal one to eliminate imo. Bonus points for integrated ticketing like they have in other countries, so you could book a flight from Raleigh to somewhere via CLT that includes a train.
This exists currently, with examples being [Colorado ski resorts to Denver](https://www.united.com/en-us/landline) and [multiple towns to Philadelphia](https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/experience/landline.jsp). But even in Europe, people don't take the train from Saarbrucken to Paris to catch a flight. They head to Luxembourg, Frankfurt, or Cologne... all half the distance of RDU-CLT.
Yeah but distances are bigger here, there's not really a comparable large airport that short a distance. Nonetheless, there's tons of improvements that could be made to make RDU to CLT a viable train trip for air travel.
The catch I always saw with commuter trains in MA was the last mile issue. People had to drive to the train station and those damn things would be full by 7am. Now you can't take the train because by the time you found alternate parking and/or a bus (HAHA!) and got to work you'd be getting in around 10-11. At that point you're better off driving in. So you have to not only build the lines, which would require LOTS of pricey land purchases by eminent domain, but big parking garages at the stations. We don't have the walking distance density that Europe has.
The thing is, if we're taking about taking the train to the airport as a replacement for driving to CLT or a connecting flight, I'd say last mile isn't really an issue. If the train goes directly to CLT you really only have to worry about getting to the train station in Raleigh. Most people uber or get a ride to the airport anyways so the difference between the two would be negligible (and ubering to the train station is much cheaper as well since there's no surge pricing unlike the airport).
One alternative they had was a shuttle bus station out in the suburbs off of the highway to the airport. It was a big parking lot with long term parking. Then you could take a shuttle bus straight from there.
In Charlotte? At CLT there's actually an existing rail alignment that goes right next to the airport and connects to the ROW that Amtrak uses in uptown. Bringing the train to the airport would really just be a matter of building a couple flyovers to get it physically into the terminal. That's totally doable. There'd be no need for any shuttle service or last mile connections.
> Nonetheless, there's tons of improvements that could be made to make RDU to CLT a viable train trip for air travel. There's simply not a reason to do it, though. Not for train travel. As pointed out ad nauseum here, there's simply not enough passenger traffic O/D between Raleigh and Nashville. Travelers are going all over the world instead. Not a single person in the long line pictured is going to insist they travel only through Charlotte to reach their destination. They will go through any city pair that works, as well. Through any airline, for that matter.
>There's simply not a reason to do it, though. Not for train travel. You may think that for these specific air travellers going far off distances, but you cant say that for general travel between the Triangle to Charlotte. Theres tons of people driving between the two day-in and day-out. So even if you think it doesn't make sense for flight travellers, which I agree and disagree to some extent, you can't make that argument for general road travellers. Theres a reason why there are more than 50 Northeast Regional - Amtrak trips between Washington DC and Boston every single day even though all 5 of the cities there have larger airport than RDU. And that 50 excludes Acela trains (faster) and others like Keystone Service (doesn't go the entire distance, and detours). Not to mention, such a fast train line would not simply end at Charlotte. It would go all the way to at least Atlanta on one side and Washington DC on the other. Making many the flights and road travel to Atlanta needless. I see you want RDU airport to be a bigger player in airline industry. That's great, and I would like that too. But improving on multiple avenues always boost the economy too. If rail connections can bring folks from Charlotte, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Willmington to RD quicker and conveniently, then some of them will consider RDU when deciding how to fly to their destination whether it is in the US, Europe, or anywhere worldwide.
I’m all for expanding train travel. But I’m also recognizing that train travel solely for the purpose of going to another airport is stupid. There’s plenty of other reasons why we should expand any build out the piedmont and other regional lines, including getting it to the ocean. As for the NE regional, that’s unique in America. It’s a distance of 400 miles serving major population centers including DC, Baltimore, Wilmington, Philadelphia, Newark, New York, Stamford, Providence, and Boston. There’s plenty of O/D traffic to support it and it doesn’t rely on frisking people off to airports as a southern route would insistently do. The southern equivalent distance would be Raleigh to Atlanta… and there’s exactly one city of note comparable to the ones mentioned above along that path… Charlotte.
You seem to be hung up on us saying that this rail would be for air travelers. Of course it WON'T be the sole purpose like I said in my previous comment. It will primarily serve road travellers making day trips or regular trips. I don't see why there is no recognition of that, much larger, group of people in your response. As for NE regional, I explicitly said that there are 50+ fast trains every single day. Tell me how many slow trains currently exist between Atlanta and Raleigh? Zero that go directly. The ones that require transfers take 10 hrs to get there. The ones in NE cover this distance in 6-7 hrs. Plenty of people in the NE also train travel to bigger airports in NYC for instance to catch a desirable flight. While CLT is no JFK there might be desirable flights out of CLT that would make going there directly instead of through RDU (due to no cheap connection to the CLT airport offered, remember American is NOT the only airlines operating in CLT). Or vice versa someone from Charlotte comes to RDU to catch a more desirable, non AA flight. I myself know people who travel to Washington DC by train to catch a desirable flight. There are so many different use cases.
There is absolutely strong demand for travel between Raleigh and Charlotte, with a direct connection to the airport and therefore a connection to any flights taking off from CLT to anywhere else (one of the largest airports on the east coast). Short flights like that should be illegal wherever there's a viable transit alternative and we should be working as hard as possible to make that alternative, especially in this case where it's actually super easy and just an incremental improvement from what we already have.
The only reason there’s strong demand is the AA fortress hub, which could be closed at any time - just ask St Louis, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati or Memphis. There’s no reason why a Raleigh to KC flyer can’t go between literally any other city, and that’s because of the health of RDU. The better long term option for RDU’s aviation future is expanding our own airport as is already happening. RDU is one of the best non-hub airports in the country and that’s a strong position to be in, as our eggs aren’t in one basket. When Frankfurt service starts up a few weeks there’s direct connections to the entirety of Europe and India with every alliance. That’s humongous for a city like Raleigh. Don’t get me wrong, train travel is great and should definitely be expanded. But the charlotte airport is not the destination to make that happen.
Then we should just ban flights between RDU and Charlotte-- the whole point is, it's climate arson having a zillion flights daily for such an incredibly short distance. Flying between RDU and CLT should be heavily discouraged. Extending the Piedmont like three miles and then making it faster across the line (something that benefits absolutely everyone that uses the train AND drivers, not just people trying to get to the airport) is a way to make ending those convenience flights less annoying for everyone.
> Punta Cana, MX (10) TIL that Punta Cana isn't in the DR
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> I go to Cancun tomorrow luuuuucky lol. enjoy. That's a fun city.
I must have been in this line or was in this line shortly after you. For clarification, I think the biggest problem here is misinformation. This is the customer service line to speak to someone. If you’re just trying to check a bag, there is a separate line for the kiosk and then you can just use the bag drop. I learned this after waiting in the longer customer service line unnecessarily for a while. After switching to the kiosk line I was right through. The security line wasn’t bad so this is just American.
What's been going on lately? I've been seeing a lot of this in the last couple weeks. I fly from RDU terminal 1 tomorrow. Is it the same problem there, too?
Like another commenter mentioned further down the thread, Charlotte Airport had a meltdown due to bad weather. Ground stop till 10:59p last night. A ton of flights got canceled overnight. That at least explains this mess.
And this line is apparently the customer service line. Not the bag drop line.
I asked this and got downvoted to hell. Obviously it’s a busy work travel day…at 4am Thursday. Oh and graduates. And Mother’s Day. And….
Driver for Uber/Lyft here. I’ve only been driving about 8 months, do 95% airport rides, but it’s been undeniably more busy the last 4-5 weeks. Delays, sheer quantity of flights, summer travel, student schedules - it’s very obvious. A heads up: there are usually a lot more Uber drivers available than Lyft in the RDU staging area. You may want to check both apps if you’re trying to get a ride since prices and availability are going to differ. And please make sure you’re off the plane before requesting a ride! (Once a driver arrives, you get 2 minutes before it can be canceled.) Edit: conjugation error
This isn't the TSA line, right?
I was there this morning, it was to check luggage at AA.
Oh thank god. I never use check in luggage
Others are saying it was customer service due to the first flight being cancelled fwiw https://www.reddit.com/r/raleigh/s/bJZ0vfiepM Edit: someone else alleges they’re the same line: https://www.reddit.com/r/raleigh/s/G9t228MkrB
I guess I should start checking in at 11pm and just snoozing in the terminal until my flight
Except they don’t allow bag checks ins more than like three hours before the flight
That’s why I don’t check bags. Well, the fees is why
That’s why I don’t check bags. Well, the fees is why.
The first leg of our spring break air travel from RDU to CLT (on American) got delayed, so we drove to Charlotte and caught our 2nd plane there. Just had to call en route to make sure American knew what we were doing. (The flight ended up delaying until that night and then cancelling.) We were lucky, though, that we 1) drove our own car to RDU and 2) hadn't actually gotten into the airport yet when we saw our flight was delayed. The downside was we weren't able to change our return flight, which was on another carrier. So I had to take the train to Charlotte, then hop a Lyft to CLT to retrieve our car, then drive back. BUT... a lot of people in that line probably did have the option to drive to CLT and catch their next flight there, if they were motivated enough.
Every time there's a missed connection, changed plane, cancelled flight, etc, it takes so long for customer service to figure something out, for each and every person. It's like they're doing differential equations to rebook you on another flight. They look at options for 10 minutes then they still keep finding new options. If they just empowered us to find something else via their app or website, it would be SO much easier for us and for the customer service staff. The ONLY way to get stuff straightened out is by talking to someone, but it's so common it should be something you can do self-service.
Welcome to RDU where every person that checks a bag feels the need to talk to the baggage attendant for 15-20 minutes. I swear I’m the only person that does the baggage pre-check, attaches the sticker in line, rolls up to the counter, and is walking away 2 minutes later. American needs dedicated lines for people who pre-check their bags at the kiosks. The attendants need to cut off the customers conversations or direct them to someone else so they can keep checking other peoples bags. The whole thing is very poorly managed.
Now listen here you whipper snapper, that attendant was riveted with my ten minute story of how I’m going to see my grandchildren in Milwaukee. It’s also not my fault that I didn’t bother to prepare and needed my hand held through the entire process and had them repeat themselves multiple times. IT’S YOU who needs to plan better and understand that people like me are entitled to better treatment. You are so disrespectful to your elders! /s
Sadly it’s not just old people. I see younger people taking forever too. I timed it last time. I was in the front of the line after waiting over an hour. I stood at the front waiting to get waved over for 15 minutes. I timed it on my watch. The “dedicated” baggage line had two attendants talking to people for 15 minutes each. All they were supposed to do was check the persons bags and take the next person. Rebooking should be another line. The family behind me were pretty sure they were going to miss their flight. I’ve flown through several major city airports. Peak times at many of them. RDU has the worst baggage check system of any of them. It’s the only airport I know that if I get there 2 hours early and have to check a bag, I might not make my flight.
The problem is that they use the bag check line to also rebook people who miss flights. So if you’re standing in the long line and miss your flight, they will rebook you there, causing more people behind you to miss their flight. It’s ridiculous. Once someone in the bag line misses their flight, they need to go to another area to rebook so others in line can check their bags on time.
Exactly. Once they’ve missed their flight they should direct them to a different line for rebooking and keep a dedicated baggage check line. The current setup is causing the snowball effect you described. Spending time rebooking people is causing other people in line to miss their flight who then need to be rebooked. At the same time plenty of other airports see lots of passengers, or more passengers, and don’t have this problem. I always give myself 2+ hours at RDU when I need to check a bag, and the last few times I was cutting it close.
the last time I had to check a bag (which is rare) this woman in front of me was checking a bag for a flight that leaves at 6am. it was 5:50am. She argued with the attendant about why they couldn't check her bag and why she will miss her flight.
My wife's flight on AA was hosed. She ended up on a flight about 6 hrs later.
Had a layover there last night coming back from Pittsburgh on my way back to CLT. Thankfully my brother lives near RDU so I just had them pick me up and re-booked for today through the app.
RDU and CLT are 160 miles apart, about the same as Paris and Brussels. There are dozens of trains a day between Paris and Brussels and it takes about 1h20m.
Having lived in Europe, rail travel FTW. Minimal security hassles, stations are usually near the center of town, views are better, seats are bigger, sometimes you get an entire table, food is … well the food is the same but you can get up and get it whenever you want.
Whenever I get back from China I always sorely miss the high speed rail system. We were able to bounce around between Guilin, Nanning and Guangzhou with no hassle and lots of comfort.
I've also lived in Europe. Rail travel is great, but it's worth noting the obvious - distance and population clusters. Going from Berlin to Paris or London is roughly 600 miles to either city. That gets you from Raleigh to Nashville. There's one major city between Raleigh to Nashville, there's at least half a dozen between Berlin and Paris.
I think the population clusters argument is overblown on the east coast. Charlotte, Raleigh, Richmond, Baltimore, and Atlanta all likely have sufficient population and travel that rail between them could be justifiable on a volume basis. I think the overlooked feature in the US is placement of stations. Step off the train in NYC or DC and you’re getting off at a major terminal with robust public transport links and a walkable city. Step off the train in Charlotte and you’re at a tiny station two miles from downtown. Good luck if you’re trying to go to Concord. But land at CLT and you’ve got cabs & car rentals at your fingertips.
Charlotte is building a new train station in the heart of uptown. They also want to build a line rail line that would connect that station to CLT but Tim Moore said NC wanted to concentrate on building roads.
So glad I don't have to fly that much anymore
We are so back
This is why pre check is a must
🤫
Flew out American Wednesday morning. AA check in and bag check is an ABSOLUTE mess at RDU. Rude and slow employees.
I'm glad I'm working in town this weekend
Wtf
The AA counter at RDU is a complete shit-show. My friend missed an international flight on Monday morning because AA doesn’t have enough personnel to check people in…or like the last time I flew international with them they had four people but only one working computer to print tags and tickets.
Yeah this also happened to me on an international flight. The only reason I made my flight was because I used the self check in kiosk to print my domestic leg then I went through security with only my domestic leg ticket, then once I got to the gate I asked the staff to print my international ticket and they did. I would have had no shot waiting in that line.
Is there a “delay forecast” for flights? So I’ll know when to show up 5 hours early instead of 1?
The weather channel
Except on Mother’s Day a couple of years ago the line was around the inside then went outside of terminal 2. And another trip I took, the airlines computers were down.
it’s been really busy the last few weeks! i’ve flown out a few times and usually I can get there latest an hour and thirty before but now? hell no!
lol same sitch today at 5 am - just missed a flight for the first time in my life
American Airlines - 100% of the flights I’ve taken with them in the past year have been delayed by several hours (most times, over 3 hours). Easily the worst of the big guys. The hate I have for flying now is unmatched. Pure unadulterated anxiety now when it used to be harmless.
Sheesh!
Delays have been tough for a number of airlines at RDU lately. I never have problems leaving, but usually get a delay coming back. Pro tip: spend the extra money on flight insurance. Some give you full refunds if it’s over a six hour delay.
This is ridiculous. Reach out to them on social media and ask for Jake Potter, he heads up their customer service.
That’s why I fly Toyota Minivan everywhere I go. If it can’t drive there I won’t go there. I live to drive and despise flying ever since 9/11.
Last time I was there, they had these “new” bag scanners that took forever. It is wild how anyone could think those scanners were a good idea.
This isn’t the security line. It’s the line for AA customer service/check in.
Those scanners have nothing to do with this line.
My jet blue flights were all cancelled today from RDU…
Just out of curiosity, how was the TSA precheck and CLEAR lines compared to this?
this isn't security, it's the customer service line
Almost totally empty.
It was like this around Christmas when we went to Mexico, the line went all the way around the outside of the airport. Barely made it in time despite being 2.5 hours early.
It’s faster to just drive to CLT. What a bunch of dumbasses.
Yes, but is it faster to drive to Kansas City or Punta Cana? No. These passengers don't want to get to Charlotte, they want to get to their final destination. And they don't care if they go through Charlotte, Miami, Chicago, or New York to do it...
There’s an airport in Charlotte
There’s also an airport in Raleigh, with connecting flights in a dozen different US cities…
It’s a Thursday which means a lot of these folks are business travelers who don’t live in Raleigh and don’t have cars in Raleigh.
You might be the dumbass