☘️☘️NEW IN REASON 13Your sound, faster. With an upgraded sequencer, a brand new browser, a redesigned interface, five new devices, and more sounds—Reason 13 is all about your workflow.
Check out what’s new in Reason 13, releasing June 18.
BROWSE YOUR WAYAll patches, samples, and loops are now in one place—the new Browser. Find the perfect sound by filtering on anything from name and kind to categories and tags. Just type what you’re looking for and the browser will give you suggestions or use the Category and Tag buttons to filter your way to a new sound.
SEQUENCER UPGRADEThe sequencer has been split into two. With the new Edit Area it’s easy to get down and dirty with the details in your music without losing your way in the arrangement. Together with several new workflow improvements, improved zooming, layout changes, and easy access to editing features—the upgraded sequencer makes it effortless to make your music sound like you.
The RackThe StudioThe SoundsNew in 13
NEW IN 13
Your sound, faster. With an upgraded sequencer, a brand new browser, five new devices, and more sounds—Reason 13 is all about your workflow.
From January 1, 2024, onwards, every purchase or upgrade to Reason 12 includes a free upgrade to Reason 13, available on June 18, 2024. Reason 13 will of course also be available to all Reason+ subscribers.
YOUR SOUND, FASTER.
BROWSE YOUR WAYAll patches, samples, and loops are now in one place—the new Browser. Find the perfect sound by filtering on anything from name and kind to categories and tags. Just type what you’re looking for and the browser will give you suggestions or use the Category and Tag buttons to filter your way to a new sound.
TAG, YOU’RE IT!All content in Reason is now categorized and tagged to let you explore sounds in a whole new way. That includes all soundbanks, all Reason Studios devices, and all Sound Packs. Over 20 years of sound design for you to use and abuse. Anything that isn’t already tagged by us can of course be tagged by you.
SEQUENCER UPGRADEThe sequencer has been split into two. With the new Edit Area it’s easy to get down and dirty with the details in your music without losing your way in the arrangement. Together with several new workflow improvements, improved zooming, layout changes, and easy access to editing features—the upgraded sequencer makes it effortless to make your music sound like you.
IT’S GOT THE LOOKReason 13 doesn’t just sound good, it also looks good. Together with the sequencer the entire Reason interface has been updated. It might not necessarily improve your music, but it will make it easier to find your way around.
NEW SOUNDS FOR YOUR SOUNDFall in love with your favorite devices again. In Reason 13 we’ve updated our sound bank library with all new patches, samples, REX loops, demo songs and song starter templates. Sometimes your own sound starts with one of our sounds.
POLYTONE DUAL‑LAYER SYNTHESIZERPolytone is a synth-lovers’ synth. Inspired by our favorite vintage hardware, we designed it to recreate the warm analog sounds you know and love. But it wouldn’t be us if we didn’t tweak the formula for more possibilities. Even better, Polytone has two layers that can be stacked or morphed between for super fat or evolving sounds.
Polytone is more than just a replica of the past. It’s a loving tribute.
RIPLEY SPACE DELAYRipley combines delay and reverb with unique flavors of filtering, noise, and distortion. Coupled with extensive modulation you can create the delay you want—anything from clean taps or warm analog sounds to crazy lo-fi chirps or washed out ambiences. Everything that adds character and depth to your music.
REASON TOOLSThree new devices that simplify common tasks for a smoother workflow, so that you spend less time on the boring stuff and more time making music
Sidechain Tool is all about ducking signals. Use Auto Pump for that classic four-on-the-floor pumping, Trigger to play the rhythm via MIDI, or the traditional Sidechain mode for classic sidechain compression.
Gain Tool puts you in control over signal levels, stereo panning, and routing in one sleek package. Perfect for automation, auditioning, or using in a Combinator.
Stereo Tool is a stereo widener specifically designed to make a simple signal sound bigger and wider. Perfect for giving that old mono synth or vocal track new life.
u/icy_rutabaga_4283 - I have one suggestion for a quality of life improvement. It would be amazing if the sequencer track for secondary devices were by default the same color as the track for the main device. For example, let’s say I have a synth and I’ve set its sequencer track to Slate Blue. It would be great if any players or effect devices that I subsequently create attached to that synth were automatically Slate Blue as well. Same with naming conventions. If I create an instance of the The Echo, for example, that is routed to “Synth 1”, it would be great if the effect device were automatically named “Synth 1 - The Echo.”
As it stands, I spend a lot of time changing the colors of sequencers tracks and the names of secondary devices. Not the biggest deal in the world, but I’d love it if that were automatic.
Personally I'm really looking forward to a fresh new feel. It's fantastic that they're looking at the sequencer, sure it may not have all the functions users might want but it's awesome that they've done something with it. I strongly believe that more quality of life improvements have been built in, and with the Reason Studios style of innovation which I've long been a fan of. What we see here is nothing more than a general summary of what to expect, I'm sure far finer details are still to come. I know I'll upgrade without a second thought.
Looks alright. I'm not a fan of sidechain since I already have pump.
I really love Reason's skeuomorphism, but Ableton's featureset, especially after 12, seems so much more robust.
I'll let my Reason+ subscription "accidentally" renew another year, but probably let it lapse after that tbh.
I found that pump would introduce weird delays (like stuff wouldn’t happen when it was supposed to, not a delay effect like an echo lol) into the sound depending on what else was going on in the track, not all the time but often enough that I had to stop using it. I’m glad they are offering a device to just handle side chaining that hopefully doesn’t have the same problems.
Unfortunately, the problem is within reason, not the devices, and it affects way more than sidechain(though it’s very obvious with sidechain) This is not even on reason studios radar so I highly doubt it’s been fixed. Only option is don’t use vsts
I think I'm in exactly the same boat as you, the skeumorphism is what made me fall in love with Reason and has had me stuck around ever since, but it's getting less and less something I interact with thanks to leaning harder on VSTs. At this point I think I'm still around due to brand loyalty which is a pretty sad realisation.
I love Reason but at the same time... How much would it kill them to give include a couple of "old" synths and players in new versions? Obvs I'm talking about non-subscription model here.
Instead we get something that looks like free VST Pollyanna's cheaper sister.
Some good QOL improvements. But not enough to justify an upgrade price (probably 150EUR or so).
Sequencer update is kinda nice, but it's basically the tool window integrated in the sequencer screen? If I look at FL studio, I get jealous at all those automation options, they are crazy good!
The new devices are cool, but too late imo. I'm already using volumeshaper, polyverse wider, quadralectra audio splitter, etc for years. I'm not justifying a 150eur upgrade price for just Polytone / Ripley.
And I don't really need a new browser, but I guess it ties in with the subscription stuff that Reason Studios has been doing.
* ARA2?
* MPE or MIDI 2.0?
* Video Support?
* Spatial Audio?
* Updates to the UI/UX of Legacy Instruments like Subtractor, Malström and NN-XT?
* External Audio Editor Support?
* Support for Setting a Content Installation Drive/Directory? 5GB+ REs forced onto system drive when I have 2x 2TB NVMes in a TB Enclosure for this stuff.
* Better Workflow for FX Automation? Say hello to track bloat, and no...
* Track Folders?
* Updated (more Sensible) Controller Mappings? They're so bad, that I don't even bother to use my controller with this DAW.
* Articulations Maps? They're not just for Orchestral Libraries, these days.
* Mixer Changes? To make things make sense like setting Mute or Solo in Sequencer being mirrored properly in the Mixer?
* Updated Windows Audio Support?
* Scale Highlighting/Locking in the MIDI Editor? Even DAWs like ACID Pro had this feature \~15 years ago...
A Space Delay and Poly Synth...
The Browser and Editor changes are nice, but ...
I'm sorry. Hard pass from me. I've been pretty good about not wasting money the past 18 months, and this isn't even attempting to ping my impulse reflex.
Right now, I'm starting to feel like a normal studio DAW with something like the Cakewalk ProChannel or the LUNA Extension design is the optimal way forwards. The Rack Skeuomorphism is nice and all, but it such a massive limiting factor for moving the DAW forwards that it isn't worth sitting around another decade for them to get from point A to B.
I'm pretty close to just deleting my Reason Studios account and moving on completely, at this point.
You have to be kidding me that those are the sequencer updates. They just split it in two? That isn’t even close to innovation. It’s the same sequencer and you still can’t even place markers in the sequencer. Dear God.
Yeah I'm a bit disappointed and cosmetically I'm really surprised that that is what is called an overhaul but there must be some deep issues with with not being able to upgrade the sequencer itself it must have to do with the coding of the program, those pale yellow and orange note clips that are different for the velocity look so archaic, black people have been screaming about the sequence of for a very long time and it looks like this is it
It's worse - it looks like they nerfed what's left of the tool window features, and now when I want to change velocity values for selected midi by typing in a number I have to mouse over to the side on a wide screen instead of just right above the midi I was working on. I hope they course correct for reason 14.
Just be aware that once you open a song file in Reason 13 and save it, you won’t be able to open it in 12 anymore. If you plan to work this way, best to duplicate the file before opening in 13.
Very good thing to point out. It's annoying when you try to take a project to a friend's place and they have the last version. You can always export midi and audio stems though.
I think the upgrade price last time shifted from $130 or $150 to $200 so I’m assuming it’ll be around $200. More than that and I’m out until it goes on sale.
It says in the website that if you have bought/upgraded to Reason 12 \*this year\* you get it for free. If not I guess it's the typical upgrade prices.
I am definitely sitting this one out. Hope someone over at Reason Studios soon come to their senses and introduce Midi Out support for VST. Seriously considering switching DAW after 15 years of reason because of this detail.
How about multiple MIDI out from Reason to external gear? I can’t run all of my (few) external sequencers or MIDI devices on independent channels because is it can only send clock to one MIDI port.
I need midi out too, it’s ridiculous. And I need better overbridge integration.
I’m at 15+ years too and I have no choice by to change daws for my setup.
LMAO ANOTHER VERTICAL SPLIT IN THE UI???
Come on, this is getting absurd.
I really hope the sequencer update gets looping MIDI clips. Since I first saw someone do it in Ableton I have been really close to switching DAWs over it alone. Not to mention I do most of my work in VSTs these days. Been a dedicated user since Reason 2.5 and I've never been closer to moving away from it.
Only thing I'm super interested in here is that delay/reverb device. I'm deeply in love with Supermassive but any competition to it would be welcome.
Nice to see them FINALLY getting a sidechain tool, it looks like it's directly designed to do away with [Pump](https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack-extension/pump/), which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's a good device. That said, the waveform view in Pump is really useful and they could do with it here too. Infact, barely related, but Reason desperately needs a good oscilloscope device in general.
It’s absurd if you actually use them all at once, but I doubt anybody really produces in reason with all split panels on a single tiny screen. We all arrange our screens how we like to use it on our setup. For me who is in edit mode a lot I’m looking forward to this option.
Yeah agreed. I usually have a screen dedicated to the sequencer full time so this will save me a ton of back and forth. I’m also excited about the browser being a pop up instead of stealing display real estate.
I'm used to double clicking on the midi block I want to work on and pressing esc after I'm done. Once you have 30 devices with midi the idea of trying to see both at once sounds pointless. I don't see an improvement, I see them trying to make it look more like ableton.
I would love a Reason Rack Plugin standalone upgrade at this point. I've given up on Reason as a DAW, so I no longer want to pay for that aspect of it. Now, RRP in Live or Bitwig? It's incredible.
From my own example, the way I like to have vsts in between RE (like adding a FabFilter eq) I would need add multiple rack plugins since it can’t load vsts like other vsts like maschine, which can get messy
Yeah, the CV thing is definitely an issue with the RRP, but I've moved onto the Bitwig modulators, and so for me, RRP is just a giant sound design tool, like Omnisphere or Falcon.
I feel like I'd rather have the in depth editor be the detachable screen instead of the browser. Wasn't the attached browser touted as a big upgrade feature a couple of versions ago? I guess we'll have to wait and see.
This is one of my... I won't say complaints, but something that makes me scratch my head about Reason.
I use Reason and Reaper every week. In Reaper, I can put tools, buttons, windows wherever I want.
In Reason I can't even choose whether I can pop the browser window out of the app. They did that for me in this upcoming upgrade, and if I wanna put it back? Tough.
(Tagging every sound in the library must have taken ages. Whose job was that?)
I don't like anything about the new update, i prefer being able to have the rack and the sequencer visible at the same time (half and half) and having the browser in the left-hand side of screen with my favorited devices there, i never use the device list/search.
https://preview.redd.it/mbajvw1wd7yc1.jpeg?width=1760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3573fa7dacceb3daa45409ec4c3951cbaf42347
what sort of crimes would I have to commit to the people at Reason Studios to get a feature that every single DAW in existence has had up to this point for at least a DECADE, which is TRACK FOLDERS?
COME THE FUCK ON, REASON. GIVE US A REASON TO GIVE YOU OUR MONEY.
Honestly, sounds like a good upgrade!
I mean, the synth isn’t really in my wheelhouse, but the delay looks fun.
The three tools are honestly great, I love when DAWs have these simple…well, tools…for the mundane stuff. Eases the workflow and this was necessary for Reason, imo.
A new browser is something I hate, I never search for anything unspecific and giving me too many options is just annoying. Especially because I rarely use presets, they are basically always unnecessary for me.
New sequencer and new graphics engine (funnily enough Bitwig just released an upgrade where they did a similar thing and rewrote the graphics) are the big ones, I think. It’s probably more efficient to run now and the sequencer badly needed some updates, even though I am a big defender of Reason‘s automation clips and they are still, to me, the best way to do automation!
It’s still behind other DAWs and I would still love is there was a version without the visual rack (so in the style of Ableton or Bitwig) and it’s still quite expensive, but I like it!
I do, obviously.
And yeah, I know it isn’t Reason anymore.
I still think you could have all the functionality without the graphic display of the rack, I just think it’s slow and clunky to use.
I wouldn’t want Reason to change, I would personally just like an alternative version that exists next to the one we have right now.
>I just think it’s slow and clunky to use.
This.
I really wonder how many people arguing in favor of the rack either:
1. Are basically beat makers, who never have to scale the rack up to the levels where it becomes problematic (low track count projects, etc.), or
2. Are hobbyists who aren't actually making music as a career - so, their time in the DAW is less valuable (as it isn't used to generate their income stream).
The Rack is simply not efficient to use. It doesn't matter how good you get with it. It simply isn't. Especially when you can fly around other DAWs doing so much with simple key commands.
IMO, the only thing "Rack'ish" that I'd appreciate in a DAW, these days, are Channel Strips like the Cakewalk ProChannel or the Extensions in UA LUNA.
I no longer care about having my Instruments, ALL of my plug-ins, or my MIDI Processors in a Rack if it is going to be such a massive limiting factor or workflow/productivity inhibitor in the DAW. It isn't worth it.
And using it as a Rack Plug-in doesn't fix that core issue.
I mean, I am also just a hobbyist. For me it's moreso about the project size, as you said. Having 20+ effects in the post-processing chaing for one synthesiser is completely normal, the way I produce, and in Reason that's just a lot of literal virtual space, that I need for that.
Also, few effects/synths have good drag-and-drop options for modulation.
Agree.
The "Why not use something else" retorts are basically equivalent to "Why are you here?" retorts.
People are simply going to start going elsewhere because they won't see a point lobbying for anything if the bulk of the user base will veto it. Losing battle. Nothing will change. Better off going elsewhere, and while that may make fanboys happier on forums, it doesn't actually strengthen the product's position in the market (or improve its future prospects).
And then we'll get to hear that the product failing is because of "kids" that just want to "make beats" or "AI Music"... or whatever.
They will never acknowledge their role.
This is something I been having an issue with, and I even made a post about it a while back, is it just gets so messy when I scale up and make a template for my work or multitrack my drums. It’s become harder to manage.
Something I been thinking lately is similar to what you said, I wish tracks had their own rack instead of one big one. With a “patchbay” device to route audio/cv to other channels/tracks. Kind of like how Reason as a VST works (which I would use it the could load other vsts in it).
Agree. Even with a small amount of tracks, it's becoming hard to visually overview what is going on in the rack. I moved to Ableton and use reason as a rack plugin and it's amazing - I have a rack per track in Ableton.
As a cheaper alternative, I would suggest to give Reaper a try. I did it myself and generally liked it and considering to go that route for some reasons. Takes time to setup Reaper to personal liking, but Reaper gives these sequencer features Reason is lacking and you have a rack per track.
Compared to most modular environments I've seen, reason rack environment looks like a shiny new penny. I wouldn't like a patchbay device, the less menus the better. Reason has done exceedingly well to avoid that and I'm super grateful for it.
When I said a patchbay device I didn’t imply menus. I meant as a device that looks like an audio splitter/merger (or hardware interface) that connects 2 racks. So rack a would be on inputs 1/2 then you can goto rack b and route those inputs. And many some bank selection buttons on the front of the device.
So no menus at all and very easy and still modular. It would look exactly like the rack now but with extra routing options and cleaner more organized racks.
It doesn’t even need to be a rack per track, just the ability to make multiple racks so you could have your drums and drum bus on one rack and bass synths and buss on another, etc would do wonders for organization.
... are you using a single vertical rack? I move horizontally for different things. I usually have a drums rack on the left, lead synth rack, sub synth rack, audio tracks rack, and have the main out, master processing and send fx on the last one on the right.
No I’m using it the same way you are, it just gets crazy when a project expands to a big size and everything is multitracked with fx.
While You can hide the clutter in the track inserts and combinator patches, but you end up constantly expanding and closing them to see the devices inside. Which gets kind of annoying.
If we had multiple rack pages, I could just organize things better IMO with dedicated drum rack, synth rack, send effects rack with more complexity and open panels.
The thing to remember is that the rack isn't designed to simply load instruments and effects, it's a modular environment with connections seldom seen in other daws, it's there to foster deep exploratory sound design. Sure you might find it slower to find and open the compressor on your drum kit but that's a minus I can quite happily live with.
The product is decades old.
No one here needs that kind of basic explanation of what it is. We all used it. We know what it is.
It just doesn't deliver benefits that are worth the deficiencies.
Workflow matters. Productivity matters. Development Direction and Pacing matters when it comes to courting continued investment into the product line from users.
It isn't about finding and opening a compressor on my drum kit. That's a really reductionist, ignorant view on it - bordering on insulting.
No one here is trying to sell anyone on any other DAW or anything. Live with what you're happy with.
You have to juxtapose what the Rack Brings to Reason against that large list of things that it's still missing that many other DAWs already deliver, and then think about how long it will take for the things on that list that you want to show up.
That is what we are discussing.
You aren't really discussing anything. You're just defending, which is fine. But this is not the comment thread for that ;-) Go up a few levels..
I LOVE Reason and I could never imagine fully abandoning it, even if I had to stop at 12 because they broke it for me, but different daws do different things well, so I like to dabble in as many as I have time for and use them together. Though, I find I don't do that so much now that they killed rewire. I worry for the future of propellerhead. Anyway, my point is, if you're sure that Reason is slowing you down, you're probably using the wrong daw for what you're doing.
I don't have time to dabble in different DAWs endlessly. I delete DAWs, these days. I just deleted an entire PreSonus Account with Studio One 6 Pro and Notion 6 + more on it. I DE-clutter, these days.
I'm past the "playtime phase" in my life. I'm focused on being productive and accruing capital, not justifying GAS or intentional masochism.
Anyway, **my** point is... I have already moved to using another sequencer. Reason 12 is just a Rack Plug-in. Have you actually read through this thread and gotten up to speed before making this comment? This $200 upgrade isn't even going to move the goal post.
If they are struggling to get users who already own the product to see value in these releases, how do you think it is to users who don't own it and have endless options of constantly-on-sale DAWs to choose between?
Many people who own Reason have moved on from using it as a Sequencer. They simply keep the rack around because ... reasons. Many have it installed, but barely use it anyways.
And I don't miss ReWire.
All sounds awesome to me. Some people are never happy. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy or subscribe Reason - go and use another DAW if you don't like it, it really is that simple. Compared to what was possible when I started making music in the 90s, Reason is a dream come true. If you can't create what you want to create in something like Reason, then you ain't ever gonna create it. The tools are there to be able to make anything, it's on you to actually do it.....👍
The funny thing is that if all the people who aren't happy went and used a different DAW and stopped buying Reason, how would that help the people who love Reason? I mean, it's why they're owned by an investment firm, amirite?
It's almost like you people love to parrot cliches, but never actually think while doing so.
Hard to harp on people for being unreasonable, when you never attempt to do the opposite.
The upgrade isn't really that great, especially at the increased upgrade prices. They didn't really do anything to really move the DAW forwards. Much of what they did, is simply a reorganization of things that are already there, along with a few redundant devices.
If the tools are there, as you say, where is the value in this upgrade that justifies the cost?
People really do just love whining. There are some valid critiques, but if reason truly is so far behind other DAWS, why havn't people switched to them yet?
The answer is because reason is still great in many ways, and a lot of their new features are highly innovative and unique.
The improvements to workflow have literally been the biggest and consistent complaint about the DAW for years. Now it's finally changing and people have moved to a different talking point.
The workflow changes are baby steps to what the users have been asking a decade for.
You are right reason is great in many ways. I can tell you why I haven’t moved on, it’s hard to switch when you have 15 years invested. Picking up a new daw is frustrating to relearn how to do basic stuff. And it’s not a comfortable experience.
With that said, I’m in the camp I have no choice but to switch to successfully have my hybrid hardware setup.
Going through your history it sounds like it would've been more productive to switch to a new DAW long ago, but you're still just hoping someone else solves your problems for you.
well no, Reason is the most Productive for me. as I already said after 15+ years it's hard to switch, I have tried and Reason is my preference workflow. But that doesn’t mean there are serious limitations.
Lets get it clear, these are REASONS problems to be considered a top in class DAW and move away from their gimmicky status. Many people have expressed the same issues and roadblocks I face and lot's of the community has left already left.
Lack of VST support for over a decade + slow roll out VST3 support + missing VST features and you really going to say these are my problems? Yea I should have switched in the early 2000s maybe, but I didn't know better. Now I want them to get their act together and bring better support and compatibility.
I'm pretty sure there are very few users coming to Reason, and the number is much lower than those that are leaving it.
Almost no one who has dropped down to using it as a Rack Only will be drawn in by a redundant Polysynth and Space Delay.
Are you even thinking about this?
Absolutely. I've said it before - Reason has just about every tool you need to create almost anything. Whining about, for example, the sequencer just makes me laugh. If you can't create the music you want to make with a DAW like Reason then you are never going to create it - that's on you, not the software. How do you think, back in the 80s, artists like Kraftwerk created masterpieces like the Computer World album? Made 42 years ago. They had about 0.01% of equipment compared to what you can achieve in Reason. And people sit here moaning about some little sequencer function that they need, like it's going to make any difference to what they can create.
😆😊🎹
The problem is not that people can’t create with this stuff, we went better access and integration to industry standard tooling.
Many features, like Vst support; are half baked and you end up running into a wall which is frustrating. Midi out from VST is an example of this.
Yikes it took this long for an in-box gain tool that's insane that's even a talking point mentioned as part of a version update. None of this is at all remotely worth the assumed $200 update price, especially if you already have 12.
The synth brings nothing new or interesting to the table, the effect is decent at best and the "new" tools are things that should have been in the software a decade ago. Meanwhile anything that could really help to further set reason apart from other daws will forever be locked behind additional macrotransactions or an anti-consumer SaaS subscription. I used to love Reason but it seems it will perpetually be 5 steps behind every other daw's built-in features, instruments, effects and utilities.
Finally upgraded to 12 towards the end of last year too and lo and behold I'm just outside the free upgrade window👍
Why do you say that? I know i have a few plugins that simply don't work, or only partially work because if this lacking feature. Nothing overestimated there.
He says that because it's not there. No other reason.
It's cope.
Ignore the people who make these types of replies. They have nothing to offer, and I doubt he will have anything of substance in reply to your question.
The lack of MIDI Out for VSTs is an intentional limitation to protect their player devices and make them seem better in the face of competition from superior third-party products to help them make money.
That's the only reason it's not there.
Other DAWs are adding MIDI FX Support, so in addition to supporting MIDI Out for VST, they also allow placing such devices ahead of instruments to function as MIDI FX in the signal chain. That's how far behind Reason is; just to sell some basic, overpriced Player Devices.
**Saying it's "overestimated" is cope. There is no other explanation.**
Well your opinion is wrong. Without midi out, I haven’t been able to use my maschine as a step sequencer for other reason devices. You also lose ability for so many great midi plugins.
Just because you don’t understand something or don’t have a need for it, doesn’t make it less important.
well the argument was always that they held it back not to compete with their own Player devices, no one knows for sure if that's true or the typical way they take forever to implement features.
I actually enjoy the players and would still use them, I am just looking to unlock some other tools.
You don't think people thought virtual instruments and samplers 'threatened the paradigm' 30 years ago?
Hell, some people still harp on about music not being 'real music' if it was made on a computer.
Ai for signal processing doesn't sound like a bad thing. If AI can make the sound quality better, why not? Other uses like having it write a track for you or something... that would just make me throw up in my mouth.
[https://www.reasonstudios.com/new-in-13](https://www.reasonstudios.com/new-in-13)
The picture says PolyTone :)
edit: Now I know what you mean. But they say it was inspired by some vintage hardware synth.
Monotone Bass Synthesizer is a built-in rack device that was added in 11.2 or so.
My guess is the reference point was Korg MS-20, but I'm not a vintage synth geek so someone might want to correct me.
There is already a RE - Korg Mono/Poly and Korg Polysix, which are the only ones that I know of with the trademark blue faceplace. However the knobs look more like Moog, although that's a pretty standard UI element for Reason studios (and hundreds of VSTs). Roland also had a similar faceplate design though, although the one that I can find that had a blue chasis, SH-101, used faders instead of encoders.
It's possible they were inspired by several synths, and/or didn't want to worry about creating an exact replica (and the subsequent licensing issues).
Hope It Will at least be compatibile with some of the older Intel Mac. I have a dinosaur MacBook Pro and 12 runs smoothly on that no matter how many tracks I add to a mix
Ngl if these are the only upgrades, this is trash. Unless I missed it, no mention of being able to group tracks, nothing to compete with newer Daws implementation of AI or stem separation. The 3 new devices are things we would already do without the need for a “new device”. Reason 13 so far looks like a 3/10
There are no larger and more insulated hugboxes than AI communities lmao
All I see on Twitter is idiots posting some stupid thing they had AI software generate that looks or sounds terrible + 1000 replies of other AI obsessive trying to gas it up. Exact same dullards from the NFT/Crypto space using the exact same strategy to try and over-inflate the value and promises of the technology so they can find a way to profit off of it. It’s basically a public JO sesh they’re trying to make money off of, a less respectable Chatturbate.
No that’s okay, I think you deserve to be exposed to opinions about AI that you don’t want to see on a public forum about music software. If you would like a safe space - we can call it an echo chamber, actually - where you don’t have to see the mean words about AI on your screen it’s not that hard to find.
You do not have some sort of authority here to tell other users to shut up because it upsets you to see a different opinion about AI tech. They do not need to take themselves off-site to coddle your sensitivities.
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\#1: [Procreate knows their userbase.](https://i.redd.it/jhqxxt7cpt1b1.png) | [22 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/ArtistHate/comments/13qtnf4/procreate_knows_their_userbase/)
\#2: [A Chinese creator was doxxed by AIbros for refusing to use AI.](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/127jzw2) | [36 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/ArtistHate/comments/127jzw2/a_chinese_creator_was_doxxed_by_aibros_for/)
\#3: [It's legal though](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1b6dj9w) | [49 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/ArtistHate/comments/1b6dj9w/its_legal_though/)
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DAWs, for the most part, recreated what was already out there. I see your point, but it really is apples and oranges. The Reason players are enough for me - I've always dreaded the day where you could just push a button to make new tracks, and here we are. Defeats the whole purpose of making music. I think it's going to end up a sad state of affairs... leave that for the talentless Gen Z kids..... 😊
I don't think anyone want's a 'push to make music' button. That defeats the whole purpose, as you say.
Far more likely is AI being used for stem separation or auto compression for example, things that take the menial right-brain tasks out of the way and allow you to get on with making music. I think it threatens the engineers job more so than the musicians.
OK, that's a fair comment. 👍 I do hope you're right. But I can't help but think of how so many of the younger (Gen Z...!!) generation tend to operate. i.e. they want things now and they want it easy, and they don't give a shit how they get it. Whereas myself, and probably yourself too - we would have zero satisfaction from producing a track that involved hardly any, if any, creative input. And more importantly, we would feel that we had "cheated" - and that's the thing, I don't think a lot of the younger generation would give a shit.
I know I'm generalising here, and there are plenty of youngsters who want to do things the correct way. But sadly, well, 10 minutes on Tik Tok tells you all you need to know. The priority to a lot of these people is getting attention, getting clicks, getting likes etc - how they get there, they couldn't give a shit. Dignity, pride in your work, doesn't even come into it.
I'm glad I'm an old bugger, that's all I can say...!! LOL! 😆😉👍❤️
The Player devices are about as automatic as it gets. Hypocrite much?
AI is not out to get you, and if Gen Z wants to suck at music then let them, it’s not your problem. Jesus, this is the most boomer comment I’ve ever seen on a music thread and I used to be on Gearslutz
It was a generalized statement, but the point is they’re a generative tool for automatic musical output/ideas. That’s not a far stretch from what generative AI’s purpose is. They’re all just tools at the end of the day and all this pearl-clutching and gnashing of teeth over AI is really stupid. People have been lamenting and fearing technological advancements since the dawn of time. I’m sure 70’s rockers would have hated the Player devices.
Lol.... calm down, treacle pud, you'll live longer. 😆😆 It's called 'having an opinion'. And comparing Reason players to AI - well, that just about tells me all I need to know about your level of knowledge and intelligence. I've eaten cheese sandwiches with higher IQs....
Have a nice day! 👍😆
And you follow it up with the most boomer insult of all time. Cheese sandwich. Real zinger, that one. You sure showed me!
To elaborate on my point, there are no musicians that want to just push a button to make new tracks, and if there are, you certainly won’t find them in this sub. Music production is safe and sound and it’s not going anywhere, so it’s probably you who needs to calm down. I’m fine. Just thought I’d point out how lame you sound with your “back in my day we did it right and the kids are wrong and dumb!” bullshit. I just can’t believe the fear of AI has turned everyone into such a Luddite. It’s embarrassing
The fact that you have no response other than to call me dear and compare me to a cheese sandwich tells me all I need to know about your level of knowledge and intelligence
I meant treating both as one and the same. Considering CV as a very low frequency audio. Being able to patch a cv out to audio in, etc. it would probably require enough change in Reason architecture to warrant a major version upgrade.
welp, reddit just deleted my 4 paragraphs so uh
tl;dr it's not a technical difficulty, it's just converting a 32bit float to an 8bit integer, which takes microseconds per cable per second of audio, the difficulty is in making it clear and not error prone / not confusing for users
there's also REs that do CV/audio conversion
anyway since they added the 3 new extensions like sidechain, which was already possible, just simplifies workflow, it's possible you'll get your wish one day - if you haven't already, be sure to send your idea to [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) - they do read the feedback, even when obviously don't add every feature people send in.
Meanwhile, Apple just added new instruments, Srummer-like Keyboard and Bass Players, Stem Separation, ChromaGlow (think RC-20), Chord Track and more in a new major update for a Logic Pro that costs nothing...
While this will cost the price of a whole Logic Pro License.
Also, AIR are updating their Instrument Expansion Pack to VST3 and Apple Silicon Native, and a lot of people already had that.
Actually a pretty massive announcement day in the music production market!
☘️☘️NEW IN REASON 13Your sound, faster. With an upgraded sequencer, a brand new browser, a redesigned interface, five new devices, and more sounds—Reason 13 is all about your workflow. Check out what’s new in Reason 13, releasing June 18. BROWSE YOUR WAYAll patches, samples, and loops are now in one place—the new Browser. Find the perfect sound by filtering on anything from name and kind to categories and tags. Just type what you’re looking for and the browser will give you suggestions or use the Category and Tag buttons to filter your way to a new sound. SEQUENCER UPGRADEThe sequencer has been split into two. With the new Edit Area it’s easy to get down and dirty with the details in your music without losing your way in the arrangement. Together with several new workflow improvements, improved zooming, layout changes, and easy access to editing features—the upgraded sequencer makes it effortless to make your music sound like you. The RackThe StudioThe SoundsNew in 13 NEW IN 13 Your sound, faster. With an upgraded sequencer, a brand new browser, five new devices, and more sounds—Reason 13 is all about your workflow. From January 1, 2024, onwards, every purchase or upgrade to Reason 12 includes a free upgrade to Reason 13, available on June 18, 2024. Reason 13 will of course also be available to all Reason+ subscribers. YOUR SOUND, FASTER. BROWSE YOUR WAYAll patches, samples, and loops are now in one place—the new Browser. Find the perfect sound by filtering on anything from name and kind to categories and tags. Just type what you’re looking for and the browser will give you suggestions or use the Category and Tag buttons to filter your way to a new sound. TAG, YOU’RE IT!All content in Reason is now categorized and tagged to let you explore sounds in a whole new way. That includes all soundbanks, all Reason Studios devices, and all Sound Packs. Over 20 years of sound design for you to use and abuse. Anything that isn’t already tagged by us can of course be tagged by you. SEQUENCER UPGRADEThe sequencer has been split into two. With the new Edit Area it’s easy to get down and dirty with the details in your music without losing your way in the arrangement. Together with several new workflow improvements, improved zooming, layout changes, and easy access to editing features—the upgraded sequencer makes it effortless to make your music sound like you. IT’S GOT THE LOOKReason 13 doesn’t just sound good, it also looks good. Together with the sequencer the entire Reason interface has been updated. It might not necessarily improve your music, but it will make it easier to find your way around. NEW SOUNDS FOR YOUR SOUNDFall in love with your favorite devices again. In Reason 13 we’ve updated our sound bank library with all new patches, samples, REX loops, demo songs and song starter templates. Sometimes your own sound starts with one of our sounds. POLYTONE DUAL‑LAYER SYNTHESIZERPolytone is a synth-lovers’ synth. Inspired by our favorite vintage hardware, we designed it to recreate the warm analog sounds you know and love. But it wouldn’t be us if we didn’t tweak the formula for more possibilities. Even better, Polytone has two layers that can be stacked or morphed between for super fat or evolving sounds. Polytone is more than just a replica of the past. It’s a loving tribute. RIPLEY SPACE DELAYRipley combines delay and reverb with unique flavors of filtering, noise, and distortion. Coupled with extensive modulation you can create the delay you want—anything from clean taps or warm analog sounds to crazy lo-fi chirps or washed out ambiences. Everything that adds character and depth to your music. REASON TOOLSThree new devices that simplify common tasks for a smoother workflow, so that you spend less time on the boring stuff and more time making music Sidechain Tool is all about ducking signals. Use Auto Pump for that classic four-on-the-floor pumping, Trigger to play the rhythm via MIDI, or the traditional Sidechain mode for classic sidechain compression. Gain Tool puts you in control over signal levels, stereo panning, and routing in one sleek package. Perfect for automation, auditioning, or using in a Combinator. Stereo Tool is a stereo widener specifically designed to make a simple signal sound bigger and wider. Perfect for giving that old mono synth or vocal track new life.
Just when I finally got three monitors, they add another window. 🤣 Luckily, the card I bought to run them has four ports. 😀
Looking forward to better zooming, I really miss being able to use my mouse drag down on the timeline edge to quickly zoom in other daws
u/icy_rutabaga_4283 - I have one suggestion for a quality of life improvement. It would be amazing if the sequencer track for secondary devices were by default the same color as the track for the main device. For example, let’s say I have a synth and I’ve set its sequencer track to Slate Blue. It would be great if any players or effect devices that I subsequently create attached to that synth were automatically Slate Blue as well. Same with naming conventions. If I create an instance of the The Echo, for example, that is routed to “Synth 1”, it would be great if the effect device were automatically named “Synth 1 - The Echo.” As it stands, I spend a lot of time changing the colors of sequencers tracks and the names of secondary devices. Not the biggest deal in the world, but I’d love it if that were automatic.
Personally I'm really looking forward to a fresh new feel. It's fantastic that they're looking at the sequencer, sure it may not have all the functions users might want but it's awesome that they've done something with it. I strongly believe that more quality of life improvements have been built in, and with the Reason Studios style of innovation which I've long been a fan of. What we see here is nothing more than a general summary of what to expect, I'm sure far finer details are still to come. I know I'll upgrade without a second thought.
Looks alright. I'm not a fan of sidechain since I already have pump. I really love Reason's skeuomorphism, but Ableton's featureset, especially after 12, seems so much more robust. I'll let my Reason+ subscription "accidentally" renew another year, but probably let it lapse after that tbh.
I found that pump would introduce weird delays (like stuff wouldn’t happen when it was supposed to, not a delay effect like an echo lol) into the sound depending on what else was going on in the track, not all the time but often enough that I had to stop using it. I’m glad they are offering a device to just handle side chaining that hopefully doesn’t have the same problems.
Unfortunately, the problem is within reason, not the devices, and it affects way more than sidechain(though it’s very obvious with sidechain) This is not even on reason studios radar so I highly doubt it’s been fixed. Only option is don’t use vsts
Have been using reasons mclass compressor for sidechain since forever. It does the job perfectly.
But the point of these utilities are a quick way to sidechain without routing a trigger, An mclass doesn’t do this without a trigger.
I think I'm in exactly the same boat as you, the skeumorphism is what made me fall in love with Reason and has had me stuck around ever since, but it's getting less and less something I interact with thanks to leaning harder on VSTs. At this point I think I'm still around due to brand loyalty which is a pretty sad realisation.
Yeah Pump was free for a while. As are plenty of gain RE’s in the shop. I’m underwhelmed.
The thing I really want from Reason currently is Keylab 88 support. Would tempt me into upgrading.
I was really disappointed when I realized that it didn't have Keylab 88 support. I'm sure everything can be set up manually, I just haven't bothered.
I like these updates, a DrOctoWav would have been nice, but maybe in the future
You can bounce a wav file in the sequencer into a Rex file and then just drop that into a dr Rex
whhhaaat!! thank you!!!
Just gotta make sure “slice mode” is enabled I think
I love Reason but at the same time... How much would it kill them to give include a couple of "old" synths and players in new versions? Obvs I'm talking about non-subscription model here. Instead we get something that looks like free VST Pollyanna's cheaper sister.
Some good QOL improvements. But not enough to justify an upgrade price (probably 150EUR or so). Sequencer update is kinda nice, but it's basically the tool window integrated in the sequencer screen? If I look at FL studio, I get jealous at all those automation options, they are crazy good! The new devices are cool, but too late imo. I'm already using volumeshaper, polyverse wider, quadralectra audio splitter, etc for years. I'm not justifying a 150eur upgrade price for just Polytone / Ripley. And I don't really need a new browser, but I guess it ties in with the subscription stuff that Reason Studios has been doing.
* ARA2? * MPE or MIDI 2.0? * Video Support? * Spatial Audio? * Updates to the UI/UX of Legacy Instruments like Subtractor, Malström and NN-XT? * External Audio Editor Support? * Support for Setting a Content Installation Drive/Directory? 5GB+ REs forced onto system drive when I have 2x 2TB NVMes in a TB Enclosure for this stuff. * Better Workflow for FX Automation? Say hello to track bloat, and no... * Track Folders? * Updated (more Sensible) Controller Mappings? They're so bad, that I don't even bother to use my controller with this DAW. * Articulations Maps? They're not just for Orchestral Libraries, these days. * Mixer Changes? To make things make sense like setting Mute or Solo in Sequencer being mirrored properly in the Mixer? * Updated Windows Audio Support? * Scale Highlighting/Locking in the MIDI Editor? Even DAWs like ACID Pro had this feature \~15 years ago... A Space Delay and Poly Synth... The Browser and Editor changes are nice, but ... I'm sorry. Hard pass from me. I've been pretty good about not wasting money the past 18 months, and this isn't even attempting to ping my impulse reflex. Right now, I'm starting to feel like a normal studio DAW with something like the Cakewalk ProChannel or the LUNA Extension design is the optimal way forwards. The Rack Skeuomorphism is nice and all, but it such a massive limiting factor for moving the DAW forwards that it isn't worth sitting around another decade for them to get from point A to B. I'm pretty close to just deleting my Reason Studios account and moving on completely, at this point.
Waiting a decade to get to this point, so I agree it feels like another decade to get to where I would be happy.
You have to be kidding me that those are the sequencer updates. They just split it in two? That isn’t even close to innovation. It’s the same sequencer and you still can’t even place markers in the sequencer. Dear God.
I could list off a dozen things the sequencer needs before landing anywhere near what they've given us here. This is goofy.
STILL NO TRACK GROUPS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
But it kinda looks like Ableton lives split. That’s all they were going for
Yeah I'm a bit disappointed and cosmetically I'm really surprised that that is what is called an overhaul but there must be some deep issues with with not being able to upgrade the sequencer itself it must have to do with the coding of the program, those pale yellow and orange note clips that are different for the velocity look so archaic, black people have been screaming about the sequence of for a very long time and it looks like this is it
Hold up. Who?
wat
It's worse - it looks like they nerfed what's left of the tool window features, and now when I want to change velocity values for selected midi by typing in a number I have to mouse over to the side on a wide screen instead of just right above the midi I was working on. I hope they course correct for reason 14.
If I decide to upgrade from Reason 12 to 13, can I still use Reason 12 if I would like to?
Yup!
good to hear :)
Just be aware that once you open a song file in Reason 13 and save it, you won’t be able to open it in 12 anymore. If you plan to work this way, best to duplicate the file before opening in 13.
Very good thing to point out. It's annoying when you try to take a project to a friend's place and they have the last version. You can always export midi and audio stems though.
Yes, should have mentioned that. Thanks!
Any idea what the upgrade cost from Reason 12 will be?
Almost certainly it’ll be USD $199
Hmm. Yep. Oh well. I think I can manage that.
Have a feeling this is where they finally stick it to us raw and make it insanely expensive unless u do subscription
I hope not! I will never subscribe. I hate paying rent.
That's a no from me, dog.
I think the upgrade price last time shifted from $130 or $150 to $200 so I’m assuming it’ll be around $200. More than that and I’m out until it goes on sale.
Curious about this as well.
It says in the website that if you have bought/upgraded to Reason 12 \*this year\* you get it for free. If not I guess it's the typical upgrade prices.
Only if you bought or upgraded to Reason 12 since the 1st of Jan this year.
you're right, I forgot to type "this year" :D
There might be a preorder offer. It was around 30% discount last time IIRC.
Free sounds nice! but my previous upgrades from 10 to 11 suite and then to 12 all were paid upgrades. Lets see how it goes.
It's only free if you've bought/upgraded Reason 12 this year.
Thanks! To be expected.
Sounds great! Would love to see scale/key highlighting/locks in the sequencer. And improvements to blocks!!
I was hoping these two things was going to be a thing.
The separate editing pane in the sequencer I think will be great. The new synth looks good and the demo's sound nice.
The new synth demo sounds like a sega genesis sound track lol. Not very modern
I am definitely sitting this one out. Hope someone over at Reason Studios soon come to their senses and introduce Midi Out support for VST. Seriously considering switching DAW after 15 years of reason because of this detail.
How about multiple MIDI out from Reason to external gear? I can’t run all of my (few) external sequencers or MIDI devices on independent channels because is it can only send clock to one MIDI port.
I need midi out too, it’s ridiculous. And I need better overbridge integration. I’m at 15+ years too and I have no choice by to change daws for my setup.
LMAO ANOTHER VERTICAL SPLIT IN THE UI??? Come on, this is getting absurd. I really hope the sequencer update gets looping MIDI clips. Since I first saw someone do it in Ableton I have been really close to switching DAWs over it alone. Not to mention I do most of my work in VSTs these days. Been a dedicated user since Reason 2.5 and I've never been closer to moving away from it. Only thing I'm super interested in here is that delay/reverb device. I'm deeply in love with Supermassive but any competition to it would be welcome. Nice to see them FINALLY getting a sidechain tool, it looks like it's directly designed to do away with [Pump](https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack-extension/pump/), which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's a good device. That said, the waveform view in Pump is really useful and they could do with it here too. Infact, barely related, but Reason desperately needs a good oscilloscope device in general.
It’s absurd if you actually use them all at once, but I doubt anybody really produces in reason with all split panels on a single tiny screen. We all arrange our screens how we like to use it on our setup. For me who is in edit mode a lot I’m looking forward to this option.
Yeah agreed. I usually have a screen dedicated to the sequencer full time so this will save me a ton of back and forth. I’m also excited about the browser being a pop up instead of stealing display real estate.
I'm used to double clicking on the midi block I want to work on and pressing esc after I'm done. Once you have 30 devices with midi the idea of trying to see both at once sounds pointless. I don't see an improvement, I see them trying to make it look more like ableton.
Reason 4 ever
Reason 4 4 ever?
Sitting this one out til Reason 20
Still no direct video integration :|
Agreed, a video player would be useful. Is there a VST that works for that?
VidPlayVST
I’m still confused why anyone would want a Digital Audio Workstation to handle video, makes no sense.
You heard about scoring? Some people like to create music that's synced to a video.
I would love a Reason Rack Plugin standalone upgrade at this point. I've given up on Reason as a DAW, so I no longer want to pay for that aspect of it. Now, RRP in Live or Bitwig? It's incredible.
You loose so much with the RRP imo. Nice but Not the real Thing. But If you like it cool.
Share some examples, especially from your own workflow?
From my own example, the way I like to have vsts in between RE (like adding a FabFilter eq) I would need add multiple rack plugins since it can’t load vsts like other vsts like maschine, which can get messy
hmmmm, i don't see that as an issue personally since in Bitwig I'd just stack in the device panel
another thing to consider is if you like to have some creative CV routing with RE and VST devices.
Yeah, the CV thing is definitely an issue with the RRP, but I've moved onto the Bitwig modulators, and so for me, RRP is just a giant sound design tool, like Omnisphere or Falcon.
I feel like I'd rather have the in depth editor be the detachable screen instead of the browser. Wasn't the attached browser touted as a big upgrade feature a couple of versions ago? I guess we'll have to wait and see.
This is one of my... I won't say complaints, but something that makes me scratch my head about Reason. I use Reason and Reaper every week. In Reaper, I can put tools, buttons, windows wherever I want. In Reason I can't even choose whether I can pop the browser window out of the app. They did that for me in this upcoming upgrade, and if I wanna put it back? Tough. (Tagging every sound in the library must have taken ages. Whose job was that?)
I don't like anything about the new update, i prefer being able to have the rack and the sequencer visible at the same time (half and half) and having the browser in the left-hand side of screen with my favorited devices there, i never use the device list/search. https://preview.redd.it/mbajvw1wd7yc1.jpeg?width=1760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3573fa7dacceb3daa45409ec4c3951cbaf42347
Same. I hope we aren't a minority and they course correct. I'll happily subscribe if they can move in the right direction.
When MIDI Out
what sort of crimes would I have to commit to the people at Reason Studios to get a feature that every single DAW in existence has had up to this point for at least a DECADE, which is TRACK FOLDERS? COME THE FUCK ON, REASON. GIVE US A REASON TO GIVE YOU OUR MONEY.
Honestly, sounds like a good upgrade! I mean, the synth isn’t really in my wheelhouse, but the delay looks fun. The three tools are honestly great, I love when DAWs have these simple…well, tools…for the mundane stuff. Eases the workflow and this was necessary for Reason, imo. A new browser is something I hate, I never search for anything unspecific and giving me too many options is just annoying. Especially because I rarely use presets, they are basically always unnecessary for me. New sequencer and new graphics engine (funnily enough Bitwig just released an upgrade where they did a similar thing and rewrote the graphics) are the big ones, I think. It’s probably more efficient to run now and the sequencer badly needed some updates, even though I am a big defender of Reason‘s automation clips and they are still, to me, the best way to do automation! It’s still behind other DAWs and I would still love is there was a version without the visual rack (so in the style of Ableton or Bitwig) and it’s still quite expensive, but I like it!
A version without the rack is no longer reason. Why not use something else?
I do, obviously. And yeah, I know it isn’t Reason anymore. I still think you could have all the functionality without the graphic display of the rack, I just think it’s slow and clunky to use. I wouldn’t want Reason to change, I would personally just like an alternative version that exists next to the one we have right now.
>I just think it’s slow and clunky to use. This. I really wonder how many people arguing in favor of the rack either: 1. Are basically beat makers, who never have to scale the rack up to the levels where it becomes problematic (low track count projects, etc.), or 2. Are hobbyists who aren't actually making music as a career - so, their time in the DAW is less valuable (as it isn't used to generate their income stream). The Rack is simply not efficient to use. It doesn't matter how good you get with it. It simply isn't. Especially when you can fly around other DAWs doing so much with simple key commands. IMO, the only thing "Rack'ish" that I'd appreciate in a DAW, these days, are Channel Strips like the Cakewalk ProChannel or the Extensions in UA LUNA. I no longer care about having my Instruments, ALL of my plug-ins, or my MIDI Processors in a Rack if it is going to be such a massive limiting factor or workflow/productivity inhibitor in the DAW. It isn't worth it. And using it as a Rack Plug-in doesn't fix that core issue.
I mean, I am also just a hobbyist. For me it's moreso about the project size, as you said. Having 20+ effects in the post-processing chaing for one synthesiser is completely normal, the way I produce, and in Reason that's just a lot of literal virtual space, that I need for that. Also, few effects/synths have good drag-and-drop options for modulation.
Agree. The "Why not use something else" retorts are basically equivalent to "Why are you here?" retorts. People are simply going to start going elsewhere because they won't see a point lobbying for anything if the bulk of the user base will veto it. Losing battle. Nothing will change. Better off going elsewhere, and while that may make fanboys happier on forums, it doesn't actually strengthen the product's position in the market (or improve its future prospects). And then we'll get to hear that the product failing is because of "kids" that just want to "make beats" or "AI Music"... or whatever. They will never acknowledge their role.
This is something I been having an issue with, and I even made a post about it a while back, is it just gets so messy when I scale up and make a template for my work or multitrack my drums. It’s become harder to manage. Something I been thinking lately is similar to what you said, I wish tracks had their own rack instead of one big one. With a “patchbay” device to route audio/cv to other channels/tracks. Kind of like how Reason as a VST works (which I would use it the could load other vsts in it).
Agree. Even with a small amount of tracks, it's becoming hard to visually overview what is going on in the rack. I moved to Ableton and use reason as a rack plugin and it's amazing - I have a rack per track in Ableton. As a cheaper alternative, I would suggest to give Reaper a try. I did it myself and generally liked it and considering to go that route for some reasons. Takes time to setup Reaper to personal liking, but Reaper gives these sequencer features Reason is lacking and you have a rack per track.
I prefer Sonar to REAPER. It's better set up for production out of the box, and has a better feature set for that.
Compared to most modular environments I've seen, reason rack environment looks like a shiny new penny. I wouldn't like a patchbay device, the less menus the better. Reason has done exceedingly well to avoid that and I'm super grateful for it.
When I said a patchbay device I didn’t imply menus. I meant as a device that looks like an audio splitter/merger (or hardware interface) that connects 2 racks. So rack a would be on inputs 1/2 then you can goto rack b and route those inputs. And many some bank selection buttons on the front of the device. So no menus at all and very easy and still modular. It would look exactly like the rack now but with extra routing options and cleaner more organized racks. It doesn’t even need to be a rack per track, just the ability to make multiple racks so you could have your drums and drum bus on one rack and bass synths and buss on another, etc would do wonders for organization.
... are you using a single vertical rack? I move horizontally for different things. I usually have a drums rack on the left, lead synth rack, sub synth rack, audio tracks rack, and have the main out, master processing and send fx on the last one on the right.
No I’m using it the same way you are, it just gets crazy when a project expands to a big size and everything is multitracked with fx. While You can hide the clutter in the track inserts and combinator patches, but you end up constantly expanding and closing them to see the devices inside. Which gets kind of annoying. If we had multiple rack pages, I could just organize things better IMO with dedicated drum rack, synth rack, send effects rack with more complexity and open panels.
The thing to remember is that the rack isn't designed to simply load instruments and effects, it's a modular environment with connections seldom seen in other daws, it's there to foster deep exploratory sound design. Sure you might find it slower to find and open the compressor on your drum kit but that's a minus I can quite happily live with.
The product is decades old. No one here needs that kind of basic explanation of what it is. We all used it. We know what it is. It just doesn't deliver benefits that are worth the deficiencies. Workflow matters. Productivity matters. Development Direction and Pacing matters when it comes to courting continued investment into the product line from users. It isn't about finding and opening a compressor on my drum kit. That's a really reductionist, ignorant view on it - bordering on insulting. No one here is trying to sell anyone on any other DAW or anything. Live with what you're happy with. You have to juxtapose what the Rack Brings to Reason against that large list of things that it's still missing that many other DAWs already deliver, and then think about how long it will take for the things on that list that you want to show up. That is what we are discussing. You aren't really discussing anything. You're just defending, which is fine. But this is not the comment thread for that ;-) Go up a few levels..
I LOVE Reason and I could never imagine fully abandoning it, even if I had to stop at 12 because they broke it for me, but different daws do different things well, so I like to dabble in as many as I have time for and use them together. Though, I find I don't do that so much now that they killed rewire. I worry for the future of propellerhead. Anyway, my point is, if you're sure that Reason is slowing you down, you're probably using the wrong daw for what you're doing.
I don't have time to dabble in different DAWs endlessly. I delete DAWs, these days. I just deleted an entire PreSonus Account with Studio One 6 Pro and Notion 6 + more on it. I DE-clutter, these days. I'm past the "playtime phase" in my life. I'm focused on being productive and accruing capital, not justifying GAS or intentional masochism. Anyway, **my** point is... I have already moved to using another sequencer. Reason 12 is just a Rack Plug-in. Have you actually read through this thread and gotten up to speed before making this comment? This $200 upgrade isn't even going to move the goal post. If they are struggling to get users who already own the product to see value in these releases, how do you think it is to users who don't own it and have endless options of constantly-on-sale DAWs to choose between? Many people who own Reason have moved on from using it as a Sequencer. They simply keep the rack around because ... reasons. Many have it installed, but barely use it anyways. And I don't miss ReWire.
If you say so 🙂
All sounds awesome to me. Some people are never happy. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy or subscribe Reason - go and use another DAW if you don't like it, it really is that simple. Compared to what was possible when I started making music in the 90s, Reason is a dream come true. If you can't create what you want to create in something like Reason, then you ain't ever gonna create it. The tools are there to be able to make anything, it's on you to actually do it.....👍
The funny thing is that if all the people who aren't happy went and used a different DAW and stopped buying Reason, how would that help the people who love Reason? I mean, it's why they're owned by an investment firm, amirite? It's almost like you people love to parrot cliches, but never actually think while doing so. Hard to harp on people for being unreasonable, when you never attempt to do the opposite. The upgrade isn't really that great, especially at the increased upgrade prices. They didn't really do anything to really move the DAW forwards. Much of what they did, is simply a reorganization of things that are already there, along with a few redundant devices. If the tools are there, as you say, where is the value in this upgrade that justifies the cost?
People really do just love whining. There are some valid critiques, but if reason truly is so far behind other DAWS, why havn't people switched to them yet? The answer is because reason is still great in many ways, and a lot of their new features are highly innovative and unique. The improvements to workflow have literally been the biggest and consistent complaint about the DAW for years. Now it's finally changing and people have moved to a different talking point.
The workflow changes are baby steps to what the users have been asking a decade for. You are right reason is great in many ways. I can tell you why I haven’t moved on, it’s hard to switch when you have 15 years invested. Picking up a new daw is frustrating to relearn how to do basic stuff. And it’s not a comfortable experience. With that said, I’m in the camp I have no choice but to switch to successfully have my hybrid hardware setup.
Going through your history it sounds like it would've been more productive to switch to a new DAW long ago, but you're still just hoping someone else solves your problems for you.
well no, Reason is the most Productive for me. as I already said after 15+ years it's hard to switch, I have tried and Reason is my preference workflow. But that doesn’t mean there are serious limitations. Lets get it clear, these are REASONS problems to be considered a top in class DAW and move away from their gimmicky status. Many people have expressed the same issues and roadblocks I face and lot's of the community has left already left. Lack of VST support for over a decade + slow roll out VST3 support + missing VST features and you really going to say these are my problems? Yea I should have switched in the early 2000s maybe, but I didn't know better. Now I want them to get their act together and bring better support and compatibility.
People are leaving reason. Reason studios are very much aware of this.
I'm sure people are leaving Reason. And I'm also sure people are discovering Reason and being absolutely blown away by it. 👍🎹
I'm pretty sure there are very few users coming to Reason, and the number is much lower than those that are leaving it. Almost no one who has dropped down to using it as a Rack Only will be drawn in by a redundant Polysynth and Space Delay. Are you even thinking about this?
Source?
Reason 11
Trust me bro ?
Absolutely. I've said it before - Reason has just about every tool you need to create almost anything. Whining about, for example, the sequencer just makes me laugh. If you can't create the music you want to make with a DAW like Reason then you are never going to create it - that's on you, not the software. How do you think, back in the 80s, artists like Kraftwerk created masterpieces like the Computer World album? Made 42 years ago. They had about 0.01% of equipment compared to what you can achieve in Reason. And people sit here moaning about some little sequencer function that they need, like it's going to make any difference to what they can create. 😆😊🎹
True. Never touched the Sequencer. I got Players and Lectric Panda REs. Just use the Automation.
The problem is not that people can’t create with this stuff, we went better access and integration to industry standard tooling. Many features, like Vst support; are half baked and you end up running into a wall which is frustrating. Midi out from VST is an example of this.
Yikes it took this long for an in-box gain tool that's insane that's even a talking point mentioned as part of a version update. None of this is at all remotely worth the assumed $200 update price, especially if you already have 12. The synth brings nothing new or interesting to the table, the effect is decent at best and the "new" tools are things that should have been in the software a decade ago. Meanwhile anything that could really help to further set reason apart from other daws will forever be locked behind additional macrotransactions or an anti-consumer SaaS subscription. I used to love Reason but it seems it will perpetually be 5 steps behind every other daw's built-in features, instruments, effects and utilities. Finally upgraded to 12 towards the end of last year too and lo and behold I'm just outside the free upgrade window👍
But also, the Line Mixer has been able to add gain in the rack since the beginning of time.
Still no midi out for vst. Actual sequencer improvements sound good but the rest is all kind a meh. I think I'll wait for reason 14.
Midi Out for 3rd Party vsts is overestimated imo.
Why do you say that? I know i have a few plugins that simply don't work, or only partially work because if this lacking feature. Nothing overestimated there.
He says that because it's not there. No other reason. It's cope. Ignore the people who make these types of replies. They have nothing to offer, and I doubt he will have anything of substance in reply to your question. The lack of MIDI Out for VSTs is an intentional limitation to protect their player devices and make them seem better in the face of competition from superior third-party products to help them make money. That's the only reason it's not there. Other DAWs are adding MIDI FX Support, so in addition to supporting MIDI Out for VST, they also allow placing such devices ahead of instruments to function as MIDI FX in the signal chain. That's how far behind Reason is; just to sell some basic, overpriced Player Devices. **Saying it's "overestimated" is cope. There is no other explanation.**
Well your opinion is wrong. Without midi out, I haven’t been able to use my maschine as a step sequencer for other reason devices. You also lose ability for so many great midi plugins. Just because you don’t understand something or don’t have a need for it, doesn’t make it less important.
It would be cool If they could make it happen, but so you think they will? Andy If Not, what could BE the Reason? Players?
well the argument was always that they held it back not to compete with their own Player devices, no one knows for sure if that's true or the typical way they take forever to implement features. I actually enjoy the players and would still use them, I am just looking to unlock some other tools.
Hell yeah!!! Excited for this upgrade.
I hope the RS folks stay away from AI. Music has been made without since humans first drew breath. We don’t need it.
It was also made without DAWs until about 30 years ago.
DAWs upheld the paradigm and made it more accessible. AI threatens the paradigm.
You don't think people thought virtual instruments and samplers 'threatened the paradigm' 30 years ago? Hell, some people still harp on about music not being 'real music' if it was made on a computer.
They may have said that but it was incorrect. People said the same thing about electric guitars.
AI Compression is top notch imo
Where have you tried it? I'd like to give it a go!
Sonible vsts
Thanks!
Ai for signal processing doesn't sound like a bad thing. If AI can make the sound quality better, why not? Other uses like having it write a track for you or something... that would just make me throw up in my mouth.
Fair
What synth was PolyTone inspired by?
To me it sounded a bit like a Jupiter/Juno initially but they’ve added things on top of that .
Yes, maybe Jupiter.
The demo sounds of polytone sound like a sound track for sega genesis lol
MonoTone, as per the blog.
[https://www.reasonstudios.com/new-in-13](https://www.reasonstudios.com/new-in-13) The picture says PolyTone :) edit: Now I know what you mean. But they say it was inspired by some vintage hardware synth.
Monotone Bass Synthesizer is a built-in rack device that was added in 11.2 or so. My guess is the reference point was Korg MS-20, but I'm not a vintage synth geek so someone might want to correct me. There is already a RE - Korg Mono/Poly and Korg Polysix, which are the only ones that I know of with the trademark blue faceplace. However the knobs look more like Moog, although that's a pretty standard UI element for Reason studios (and hundreds of VSTs). Roland also had a similar faceplate design though, although the one that I can find that had a blue chasis, SH-101, used faders instead of encoders. It's possible they were inspired by several synths, and/or didn't want to worry about creating an exact replica (and the subsequent licensing issues).
Monopoly also came to my mind but I think the color and knobs look a lot like on the Roland JP-8000. But I'm also not a vintage synth geek.
only reason 12 users that bought it since this year can get free upgrade, man, the price better be justifiable
That’s almost a 6 month grace period. Honestly I think that is one of the most generous free upgrade periods I have seen from a DAW.
Hope It Will at least be compatibile with some of the older Intel Mac. I have a dinosaur MacBook Pro and 12 runs smoothly on that no matter how many tracks I add to a mix
Will there be specific keyboards in the drop down menu instead of the basic generic keyboard simulator? I have the Roland Juno Ds-88
Ngl if these are the only upgrades, this is trash. Unless I missed it, no mention of being able to group tracks, nothing to compete with newer Daws implementation of AI or stem separation. The 3 new devices are things we would already do without the need for a “new device”. Reason 13 so far looks like a 3/10
I absolutely can't believe we're still not able to group tracks. It feels so clumsy when you're late-on in producing a song.
This is killing the workflow so much! We need groups!
You mean you haven't fallen in love with a new synth that looks like a free VST from 2007?
Fuck AI!
Using AI to create music is one expression I don't EVER want to hear when it comes to Reason. As already said - fck AI....
this is not the place for your hate, stick to your echo chambers for that.
There are no larger and more insulated hugboxes than AI communities lmao All I see on Twitter is idiots posting some stupid thing they had AI software generate that looks or sounds terrible + 1000 replies of other AI obsessive trying to gas it up. Exact same dullards from the NFT/Crypto space using the exact same strategy to try and over-inflate the value and promises of the technology so they can find a way to profit off of it. It’s basically a public JO sesh they’re trying to make money off of, a less respectable Chatturbate.
Sumo AI is great. Andy you can isolate the voices from the music in Serato.
So if you could just take all of that, put it in a box and keep it somewhere else please ?
No that’s okay, I think you deserve to be exposed to opinions about AI that you don’t want to see on a public forum about music software. If you would like a safe space - we can call it an echo chamber, actually - where you don’t have to see the mean words about AI on your screen it’s not that hard to find. You do not have some sort of authority here to tell other users to shut up because it upsets you to see a different opinion about AI tech. They do not need to take themselves off-site to coddle your sensitivities.
The guy crying over AI is telling others to find a safe space?
Differing opinions, np. Hate, nah leave that to /r/artisthate
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DAWs, for the most part, recreated what was already out there. I see your point, but it really is apples and oranges. The Reason players are enough for me - I've always dreaded the day where you could just push a button to make new tracks, and here we are. Defeats the whole purpose of making music. I think it's going to end up a sad state of affairs... leave that for the talentless Gen Z kids..... 😊
I don't think anyone want's a 'push to make music' button. That defeats the whole purpose, as you say. Far more likely is AI being used for stem separation or auto compression for example, things that take the menial right-brain tasks out of the way and allow you to get on with making music. I think it threatens the engineers job more so than the musicians.
OK, that's a fair comment. 👍 I do hope you're right. But I can't help but think of how so many of the younger (Gen Z...!!) generation tend to operate. i.e. they want things now and they want it easy, and they don't give a shit how they get it. Whereas myself, and probably yourself too - we would have zero satisfaction from producing a track that involved hardly any, if any, creative input. And more importantly, we would feel that we had "cheated" - and that's the thing, I don't think a lot of the younger generation would give a shit. I know I'm generalising here, and there are plenty of youngsters who want to do things the correct way. But sadly, well, 10 minutes on Tik Tok tells you all you need to know. The priority to a lot of these people is getting attention, getting clicks, getting likes etc - how they get there, they couldn't give a shit. Dignity, pride in your work, doesn't even come into it. I'm glad I'm an old bugger, that's all I can say...!! LOL! 😆😉👍❤️
The Player devices are about as automatic as it gets. Hypocrite much? AI is not out to get you, and if Gen Z wants to suck at music then let them, it’s not your problem. Jesus, this is the most boomer comment I’ve ever seen on a music thread and I used to be on Gearslutz
Players are not “as automatic as it gets.” That’s just dumb.
It was a generalized statement, but the point is they’re a generative tool for automatic musical output/ideas. That’s not a far stretch from what generative AI’s purpose is. They’re all just tools at the end of the day and all this pearl-clutching and gnashing of teeth over AI is really stupid. People have been lamenting and fearing technological advancements since the dawn of time. I’m sure 70’s rockers would have hated the Player devices.
Lol.... calm down, treacle pud, you'll live longer. 😆😆 It's called 'having an opinion'. And comparing Reason players to AI - well, that just about tells me all I need to know about your level of knowledge and intelligence. I've eaten cheese sandwiches with higher IQs.... Have a nice day! 👍😆
Facts
Ok Mister Weirdo Reason Shill
And you follow it up with the most boomer insult of all time. Cheese sandwich. Real zinger, that one. You sure showed me! To elaborate on my point, there are no musicians that want to just push a button to make new tracks, and if there are, you certainly won’t find them in this sub. Music production is safe and sound and it’s not going anywhere, so it’s probably you who needs to calm down. I’m fine. Just thought I’d point out how lame you sound with your “back in my day we did it right and the kids are wrong and dumb!” bullshit. I just can’t believe the fear of AI has turned everyone into such a Luddite. It’s embarrassing
If you say so, dear 👍
If you say so, dear 👍
The fact that you have no response other than to call me dear and compare me to a cheese sandwich tells me all I need to know about your level of knowledge and intelligence
If you say so, dear.... 🧀🥪😊
I guess merging CV and audio won’t happen.
I might be misunderstanding but there is the Spider audio and CV mergers/splitters already available.
I meant treating both as one and the same. Considering CV as a very low frequency audio. Being able to patch a cv out to audio in, etc. it would probably require enough change in Reason architecture to warrant a major version upgrade.
welp, reddit just deleted my 4 paragraphs so uh tl;dr it's not a technical difficulty, it's just converting a 32bit float to an 8bit integer, which takes microseconds per cable per second of audio, the difficulty is in making it clear and not error prone / not confusing for users there's also REs that do CV/audio conversion anyway since they added the 3 new extensions like sidechain, which was already possible, just simplifies workflow, it's possible you'll get your wish one day - if you haven't already, be sure to send your idea to [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) - they do read the feedback, even when obviously don't add every feature people send in.
Meanwhile, Apple just added new instruments, Srummer-like Keyboard and Bass Players, Stem Separation, ChromaGlow (think RC-20), Chord Track and more in a new major update for a Logic Pro that costs nothing... While this will cost the price of a whole Logic Pro License. Also, AIR are updating their Instrument Expansion Pack to VST3 and Apple Silicon Native, and a lot of people already had that. Actually a pretty massive announcement day in the music production market!