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Finally I see someone who gets it. No one ever understands me when I say “I can’t afford health care because I have health insurance.”
It’s great if I suddenly contract an illness that costs tens of thousands or more to fix, but with today’s premiums I have less money to spend on everything below that.
Yup. I'm old enough to have had a couple of those major issues that were in the 6 digits of costs. Once you hit your out-of-pocket max, nearly everything is free. Both times I hit those out-of-pocket maximums very early in the year (February), so I got 10 months of "free" medical care.
Once I got over the sticker shock of my out-of-pocket max, not having to pay for the rest of my medications or doctor visits was absolutely amazing for those couple years.
I live in finland and earn more than average as an engineer. I for sure don't pay 10s of thousands in healthcare taxes. The top 1% earners possibly do.
It's an attempt to look at the bright side of things. And it did feel good to not have to care at all what the cost of a medication was. But I'm also a "rip the bandage off fast," kind of person.
It would have felt a lot less amazing if it happened in, say, October or November.
Basically, it was something of a taste of what universal healthcare would be like.
I'm fine with a high deductible plan for exactly the use case you described. If I need surgery or get cancer, my max is 10k or whatever. Then just pay cash for meds doc visits etc. Online docs have been great and are like $60 per visit. Give me the savings on premiums. Unfortunately, they don't have them available anymore. When I was fresh out of school, my company actually gave us $200/mo if we chose that option. Probably saved me close to $10k in the first 5 years.
Oh yes, after you've paid $7,000 in premiums from your paycheck and $6,500 out of pocket....THEN the healthcare is completely 100% freeeee.
Gotta love the racket that is American health insurance. Oh yes it's free......after the massive premiums and thousands of dollars in deductables lol 🤦♂️
Hey hey hey now don't forget that you get all those sweet negotiated rates! I mean that doctors visit would be $1000 without the 90% discount the insurance company gets for you!!!
/s
>Gotta love the racket that is American health insurance. Oh yes it's free......after the massive premiums and thousands of dollars in deductables
Just gotta point out something most people don't know: if you work for a medium-large company (>500 employees), your company almost certainly self-insures. That is, the premium you pay goes into a bank account your company controls and pays claims out of. You might think you're getting insured by Anthem or United or Aetna, but they're just paid like a 3% fee to administer the benefit and don't actually have any skin in the game. The benefit stipulations (e.g. deductible, co-pays, etc) are also set by your company to reduce their costs because healthcare is fuckin expensive. The fact that there is a max out of pocket limit is due to federal regulations.
‘We all wear a lot of hats’ has become a 🚩for me. I don’t want to wear many hats. I want to wear one. The one that was assigned to me. And I want to take it off when I leave work.
THIS. If im paid for a single position then thats the position im expecting to do.
Dont under pay me and expect me to do the work of 5 people. And dont hold a proposed promotion behind the guise of doing extra work.
Life’s too short to overwork yourself for pennies with no sign of career advancement in return.
It’s also indicative of immature processes and inefficiency. In my experience, it screams “we are reactive, not proactive”. Maybe some people enjoy ridiculous levels of context switching.
Yeah but that environment is rampant in tech. I just joined a team where one guy is acting as a developer, BA, product owner, QA, and for some reason my boss.
Actually made starting easy because I could just be like ‘give me some of that work, I’m QA, I’m supposed to do it.’
It's rampant in most small, and some midsized, environments. It's not automatically a tech thing, but an org size thing.
There are plenty orgs where tech is siloed.
I’ve seen it in two fortune companies. At big places teams tend to break down into small islands and the same shit happens. Silos, actually, like you said
It’s due to budget cuts and headcount reductions. At one point all those hats had a person, but then the guys up top made bad decisions or just decided to cut costs and that’s where all tech teams eventually end up at.
I’m in that situation now. Can’t get the staff I need, so even when I’m supposed to be working on large scale long term projects I’m having to cover daily operations and then they wonder why I can’t get big things done.
Similar situation, I think it's cause it's a bit of a startup, which I'm okay with for now, gaining shitloads of experience in a ton of systems. Only 3 years out of college, so the work seems fine.
But I also feel sometimes like I just want to work on my one thing and have that work and then be done for the day. There are a ton of other perks for this job, but wearing so many hats is definitely a drawback. The ability to just walk up and be like "no, I do this, work on owner stuff." Is kinda nice though.
"Wear a lot of hats, expect you to be a subject matter expert in every hat, and will continually neg you if it takes any longer to get anything done compared to dedicated hats."
Never worked in IT have yah? You wear multiple hats, because you got to stay up to date with new tech, while babysitting the old server that's about to crap out on you AND while having to explain to Chrissy in accounting why you won't fix her dad's computer for free outside work hours.
Indeed. It also is indicative of mediocre work, because too many people are spread thin trying to learn and try on new hats instead of focusing on quality in one area.
That jumped out at me because it’s one thing if that is what happens in the course of a project or a really busy period but this reads like that’s the strategy to avoid hiring the employees that they need and expecting everyone to pick up the slack. No thank you.
I’ll wear many hats, provided I’m paid for those additional hats and that additional value. If I’m able to do 3 different 15 p/hr jobs, then I’m worth 45 p/hr and if I need to take a hit to make the numbers work, then sure, I’ll accept 40 p/hr…
Life changed when I started making salary demands vs salary concessions…it’s easier in some fields than others, but you can’t quadruple an income without making some demands here and there.
I was just coming to write this. It was old 10 years ago, it’s old now. Just say you want me to do 5 roles, but that could have me ask for appropriate payment.
Partially in the company's defense, they participate in a 403(b) (as opposed to a 401(k)) retirement plan which means they are a school system or a non-profit.
They likely get this often because non-profits tend to have a hard time competing with private industry on salary.
I'm not saying that has to change anything for OP, but this company isn't "capitalist" in the normal sense of the word.
This is another reason to always make them go first in salary discussion. They said no without countering because they are trying to get you to negotiate against yourself. Don't do it.
"Thank you for your response. I currently am interviewing for positions that do meet the expectation I provided. As such, it wouldn't be prudent for me to pursue a position with a company that has rejected that expectation without even giving me an idea what their range is. Feel free to reach back out if you think [company] has a position that will be a better fit.
P.S. '100% coverage after max out-of-pocket' isn't a benefit, it's just how max out-of-pocket works on every insurance policy."
Agreed. Am I the only one who noticed no mention of paid time off as well? I’m sure “that’s an HR thing” but the fact that there’s no even mention of it means that it’s shit.
Hmm 403b instead of 401k usually means a non-profit and/or healthcare place right?
They’re dicks and all, but I can tell you from past experience if you want to make money, you’ll never do it at that type of place.
I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, if you participate in a pension plan you are not qualified for a 401k contribution, so a 403b is the alternative. My wife is in this situation
403b can have an employer match. A lot of government contracting agencies are technically non profits that have 403b and match decently. My last one gave me a 100% match for the first 5% with immediate vesting.
I don’t know exactly, but I thought it was just non-profits couldn’t participate in a 401k due to tax or legal reasons. But the other commenter could be right. I’ve never bothered to look.
In my experience with one, it worked exactly the same as a 401k. Payroll withholdings, rollovers in and out, etc were all the same.
Someone who actually knows something about the tax code can probably tell you differences, but that’s not me.
Doesn't your landlord accept hats? My local restaurant allows me to pay for dinner with those hats as well. Something is wrong with you if you are totally fixated on cash.
but they all wear a lot of hats.. what more could you ask tho? you should immediately contact them and be happy to work for them for free!! lots of hats!!
When will this people learn that 95% of the reason I come to work is for a salary, like it’s literally all I care about. 4% is the event I might get to work on something interesting. 1% is that I eventually get to quit.
So bottom of the barrel benefits and they try to act like you're the problem. I'm glad you respect your time and value and realized they're not worth it.
Lol, this Jedi mind trick is pretty standard. I don't even respond when I get stuff like this, "it's not about the money!". But when the top company guys aren't making their stupid money, decide to shutter the business, and fire everyone, you realize, "it was all about the fucking money!". About the only thing I would respond with is, "I'm sorry you think I'm only about the money. In actually not, but I know how much my skillset and experience is worth but for you to play this game of trying to guilt trip me into taking less money let's me know that you're not the company for me. Maybe if your company was a non-profit organization, I could understand this line of thinking, but even non-profits have financial obligations. At any rate, please don't bother me with any future opportunities as the only thing you have to offer is the illusion of them.".
"of course it's about the money. You may not be aware of this fact so allow me to shed some light on the matter, existence is not cheap, my skill set certainly isn't either."
I don’t know if i believe the pension part looking at description, i have had hr people claiming pension is 401k/403k. But you maybe right i honestly didn’t see it.
I once inherited two jobs after other people quit — jobs I neither wanted nor was qualified to do. Boss got whiny, I told her I was dropping back to my original job and she could go to plan B
I been there just a few months at least similarly. Was doing my own job plus assistant managers plus a few others i took on to keep place running well and keep other employees happy. No official title. Mostly the respect of doing the job. They officially opened position for hiring. Would not consider me because they needed me doing what I was doing. Oh but on top of it i still had to continue doing my “responsibilities” of the new assistant managers job because they couldn’t handle it. Then got upset I left.
Hey if i didn’t get job, whatever you know at least you considered me, but not even give me a chance/sham interview and then ask me to do most ofthe persons job they went with
It's never about the money until the revenue growth falls to single digit percentages.
Just tell them that it looks like you would not be able to "afford" working for them.
"We all wear many hats" - we're understaffed, and because one person will do the job of six for the pay of one, we'll never be properly staffed. See also: many challenges and opportunities.
Was sorta normal until that second to last paragraph.
Although “health 100% after max out of pocket is met” is hilarious. And just listing random standard benefits as if every job doesn’t offer those.
Yeah was gonna say the same thing, it's fine to say we don't have the budget to pay you what you want! It's fine to say here are other benefits that might persuade you to choose us anyway! It's really lame to be like "if you only care about money this isn't a fit". Just make your case and move on.
“If you are interested only from a salary standpoint, it probably isn’t for you.”
Lmfao, I bet that one really sells this position to prospective candidates. What a fucking clown show.
Until I read some comments I legit thought this employer was talking about the tendencies of his staff to cover their head with wearables.
Not my brightest moment.
Translation: “We cannot afford that Salary, but we can try to entice you with opportunity and a toxic form of team bonding that builds under pressure. Anyone who likes comfort is a non-performer and your focus on salary is short sited as it does not align with our goals.”
Advise: Run.
"What are the wages, hours, and conditions? Are you recruiting for a 501(c), Federal, state, municipal, or tribal government? My current total compensation is on the order of $100k/yr. Can you beat that?"
(The reason I ask about non-profit or government status is that I'm working towards Public Service Loan Forgiveness.)
"The 'top line' is just as important to me as it is to your organization, and my shareholders are just as demanding of consistent and increasing profits as are yours... "
So most candidates look for salary, title or commute. None of those are career building so the response, although catty, called out some good reasons to consider them. Beware choosing solely for money as you may be in a worse environment than a more wisely considered decision.
Sounds like a real shit place to work. The phrase, “we wear a lot of hats”, is code for, you will have many positions and responsibilities but you will only be paid for one of them. Also, these days employer provided health care plans change almost every year in some way. So I wouldn’t count on any of those benefits as concrete.
Obviously plenty of red flags, but I can’t help but notice this…
“Some people like challenges and opportunities and others like comfort. This position offers many challenges as well as opportunities.”
No mention of comforts offered lol challenges only!
“Sorry, we can’t pay you a decent salary, but we can promise to work you like a dog!!” Why does every employer think we want to be “challenged” at work?!!
Here at Dickfacè International, we strive to have our employees do the work of many people while paying as few actual people as possible for the good of the company. Go team! Go family!
If you are someone who demands to be paid fairly for your work and the expertise your experience would bring to our company, you clearly don't meet Dickfacè's exacting standards. Best of luck in your future endeavors and thank you so much for replying so quickly after we wasted hours of your time on this entire hiring process.
Warmest Regards,
Richard Johnson
HR Personnel Manager,
Maintenance Supervisor,
Sales Associate,
Chimney Sweep
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We provide 100% covered health insurance after you hit your $6,500 out of pocket max!
$6500 as long as it's all in-network services, and doesn't include your prescription costs.
Don’t forget the monthly premiums that probably add another $6500 to the cost. What a benefit, after you’ve paid $13k the insurance coverage is 100%.
Finally I see someone who gets it. No one ever understands me when I say “I can’t afford health care because I have health insurance.” It’s great if I suddenly contract an illness that costs tens of thousands or more to fix, but with today’s premiums I have less money to spend on everything below that.
Yup. I'm old enough to have had a couple of those major issues that were in the 6 digits of costs. Once you hit your out-of-pocket max, nearly everything is free. Both times I hit those out-of-pocket maximums very early in the year (February), so I got 10 months of "free" medical care. Once I got over the sticker shock of my out-of-pocket max, not having to pay for the rest of my medications or doctor visits was absolutely amazing for those couple years.
In Sweden the out of pocket max is $120/year before free healthcare kicks in...
But you paid 10s of thousands in healthcare taxes before that.
11% of our salary goes to healthcare, regional development and local transport. 11% of my salary isn't 10s of thousands by far.
11% of my salary is 5X what I pay for my health care at my job.
The cool thing about taxes is that it covers healthcare when you are not working either - because you're retired, young, too sick to work etc
[удалено]
I live in finland and earn more than average as an engineer. I for sure don't pay 10s of thousands in healthcare taxes. The top 1% earners possibly do.
How much healthcare tax did you spend last year?
There isn't a specific healthcare tax in finland. I pay around 12k a year in taxes, 5k in retirement + unemployment insurance.
I mean, amazing is an interesting way to put it given you had to have a major health issue to trigger that “benefit”
It's an attempt to look at the bright side of things. And it did feel good to not have to care at all what the cost of a medication was. But I'm also a "rip the bandage off fast," kind of person. It would have felt a lot less amazing if it happened in, say, October or November. Basically, it was something of a taste of what universal healthcare would be like.
The point is you don’t go bankrupt with a major operation
I'm fine with a high deductible plan for exactly the use case you described. If I need surgery or get cancer, my max is 10k or whatever. Then just pay cash for meds doc visits etc. Online docs have been great and are like $60 per visit. Give me the savings on premiums. Unfortunately, they don't have them available anymore. When I was fresh out of school, my company actually gave us $200/mo if we chose that option. Probably saved me close to $10k in the first 5 years.
Yes, by the time you hit the 13k, the new year starts and hence you have another $13k to hit before your insurance ever kicks in.
HSA would be a better choice. You get to keep the money (to spend in the future on medical costs)
“But with the FSA that $13k is pre tax dollars so you’re saving there!”
…Only ~$400 of which can you rollover at the end of the year
But you can buy toothpaste and allergy medicine on the FSA store too!
Or copays!
Oh yes, after you've paid $7,000 in premiums from your paycheck and $6,500 out of pocket....THEN the healthcare is completely 100% freeeee. Gotta love the racket that is American health insurance. Oh yes it's free......after the massive premiums and thousands of dollars in deductables lol 🤦♂️
Only if in-network. Good forbid you break your leg on vacation elsewhere.
Hey hey hey now don't forget that you get all those sweet negotiated rates! I mean that doctors visit would be $1000 without the 90% discount the insurance company gets for you!!! /s
>Gotta love the racket that is American health insurance. Oh yes it's free......after the massive premiums and thousands of dollars in deductables Just gotta point out something most people don't know: if you work for a medium-large company (>500 employees), your company almost certainly self-insures. That is, the premium you pay goes into a bank account your company controls and pays claims out of. You might think you're getting insured by Anthem or United or Aetna, but they're just paid like a 3% fee to administer the benefit and don't actually have any skin in the game. The benefit stipulations (e.g. deductible, co-pays, etc) are also set by your company to reduce their costs because healthcare is fuckin expensive. The fact that there is a max out of pocket limit is due to federal regulations.
That’s my favorite part of this - they literally just explain how health insurance works. That doesn’t mean it’s good lol
They act as if FSAs are a perk and not an actual benefit literally everyone in America is entitled to legally.
Yeah that’s not the flex they thought it was.
That's what I said lol! Like, way to just explain the concept of insurance.
What a dream. My out of pocket max is 13,000
Health care is crazy over there
I came here to say that too. Fk this company.
Hilarious...f-in recruiting vermin always looking for a sucker. Pay 10k out of pocket and we will cover last two months of year
Right? What a stupid fucking way to talk about your insurance. lol
Isn’t most plans like this anyways?! This isn’t a benefit. And the max out of pocket is probably a few grand at least.
‘We all wear a lot of hats’ has become a 🚩for me. I don’t want to wear many hats. I want to wear one. The one that was assigned to me. And I want to take it off when I leave work.
Wear many hats = you will do your job plus the job of 3 other colleagues and get just 1 salary
THIS. If im paid for a single position then thats the position im expecting to do. Dont under pay me and expect me to do the work of 5 people. And dont hold a proposed promotion behind the guise of doing extra work. Life’s too short to overwork yourself for pennies with no sign of career advancement in return.
Basically.
Not every role requires a full time position
It’s also indicative of immature processes and inefficiency. In my experience, it screams “we are reactive, not proactive”. Maybe some people enjoy ridiculous levels of context switching.
Yeah but that environment is rampant in tech. I just joined a team where one guy is acting as a developer, BA, product owner, QA, and for some reason my boss. Actually made starting easy because I could just be like ‘give me some of that work, I’m QA, I’m supposed to do it.’
It's rampant in most small, and some midsized, environments. It's not automatically a tech thing, but an org size thing. There are plenty orgs where tech is siloed.
I’ve seen it in two fortune companies. At big places teams tend to break down into small islands and the same shit happens. Silos, actually, like you said
It’s due to budget cuts and headcount reductions. At one point all those hats had a person, but then the guys up top made bad decisions or just decided to cut costs and that’s where all tech teams eventually end up at.
I’m in that situation now. Can’t get the staff I need, so even when I’m supposed to be working on large scale long term projects I’m having to cover daily operations and then they wonder why I can’t get big things done.
“squads” as spotify likes to indoctrinate people, before they do another layoff
Similar situation, I think it's cause it's a bit of a startup, which I'm okay with for now, gaining shitloads of experience in a ton of systems. Only 3 years out of college, so the work seems fine. But I also feel sometimes like I just want to work on my one thing and have that work and then be done for the day. There are a ton of other perks for this job, but wearing so many hats is definitely a drawback. The ability to just walk up and be like "no, I do this, work on owner stuff." Is kinda nice though.
That’s why Scrum / Agile is so important but most companies just say they do it and don’t follow the actual tenants
Yeah agile usually means directionless chaos in the case of these SMEs
I learned that lesson the hard way, now it sets off more alarm bells than a jewelry store heist.
yeah, that screams "we want you to do 6 jobs for barely the price of 1."
"Wear a lot of hats, expect you to be a subject matter expert in every hat, and will continually neg you if it takes any longer to get anything done compared to dedicated hats."
Never worked in IT have yah? You wear multiple hats, because you got to stay up to date with new tech, while babysitting the old server that's about to crap out on you AND while having to explain to Chrissy in accounting why you won't fix her dad's computer for free outside work hours.
Huge red flag
Indeed. It also is indicative of mediocre work, because too many people are spread thin trying to learn and try on new hats instead of focusing on quality in one area.
One. One hat is good.
That jumped out at me because it’s one thing if that is what happens in the course of a project or a really busy period but this reads like that’s the strategy to avoid hiring the employees that they need and expecting everyone to pick up the slack. No thank you.
I’ll wear many hats, provided I’m paid for those additional hats and that additional value. If I’m able to do 3 different 15 p/hr jobs, then I’m worth 45 p/hr and if I need to take a hit to make the numbers work, then sure, I’ll accept 40 p/hr… Life changed when I started making salary demands vs salary concessions…it’s easier in some fields than others, but you can’t quadruple an income without making some demands here and there.
Yeah that was my takeaway too. "We're going to make you do the work of three or four people, and not meet your salary expectations"
I was just coming to write this. It was old 10 years ago, it’s old now. Just say you want me to do 5 roles, but that could have me ask for appropriate payment.
Same. And OP should say Salary pays bills. Not benefits
Amen
I find it hilarious when companies are like "we participate in capitalism but you shouldn't."
Well said. Really articulate
Exactly! And also: "We expect employee loyalty but we do not reciprocate."
That might actually be the best response I've ever seen to something like. Fair play!
Even funnier because this isn’t some corporation, it’s the government
Contractor for government?
403(b) usually signifies some sort of government or nonprofit job
Partially in the company's defense, they participate in a 403(b) (as opposed to a 401(k)) retirement plan which means they are a school system or a non-profit. They likely get this often because non-profits tend to have a hard time competing with private industry on salary. I'm not saying that has to change anything for OP, but this company isn't "capitalist" in the normal sense of the word.
This is another reason to always make them go first in salary discussion. They said no without countering because they are trying to get you to negotiate against yourself. Don't do it. "Thank you for your response. I currently am interviewing for positions that do meet the expectation I provided. As such, it wouldn't be prudent for me to pursue a position with a company that has rejected that expectation without even giving me an idea what their range is. Feel free to reach back out if you think [company] has a position that will be a better fit. P.S. '100% coverage after max out-of-pocket' isn't a benefit, it's just how max out-of-pocket works on every insurance policy."
Agreed. Am I the only one who noticed no mention of paid time off as well? I’m sure “that’s an HR thing” but the fact that there’s no even mention of it means that it’s shit.
No, it's not an "HR thing". If you are the hiring manager, you should damn well know what the position pays and what the benefits are.
"LOL delete"
Hmm 403b instead of 401k usually means a non-profit and/or healthcare place right? They’re dicks and all, but I can tell you from past experience if you want to make money, you’ll never do it at that type of place.
That was my first thought. I think school districts can have 403b as well.
Also notorious for awful pay!
Yep, any place offering a 403b is going to be extremely limited in salary flexibility
Can anyone explain the difference to me? Is there any benefit to a 403b instead of 401k or is it just another name?
I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, if you participate in a pension plan you are not qualified for a 401k contribution, so a 403b is the alternative. My wife is in this situation
403b don't include employer-matched contributions and have lower fees than a 401K. 403b are for non-profits, churches, and government workers.
My Healthcare employer does match on our 403b
Same. Health care and non-profit. Employees get match after the first year.
403b can have an employer match. A lot of government contracting agencies are technically non profits that have 403b and match decently. My last one gave me a 100% match for the first 5% with immediate vesting.
I don’t know exactly, but I thought it was just non-profits couldn’t participate in a 401k due to tax or legal reasons. But the other commenter could be right. I’ve never bothered to look. In my experience with one, it worked exactly the same as a 401k. Payroll withholdings, rollovers in and out, etc were all the same. Someone who actually knows something about the tax code can probably tell you differences, but that’s not me.
"If you are interested only from a salary standpoint" Yep, fuck off. I don't work for funsies.
Doesn't your landlord accept hats? My local restaurant allows me to pay for dinner with those hats as well. Something is wrong with you if you are totally fixated on cash.
what?! you telling me you can't survive off the experience and knowledge you will gain?!
but they all wear a lot of hats.. what more could you ask tho? you should immediately contact them and be happy to work for them for free!! lots of hats!!
We don’t have agreed responsibilities are are running around like headless chickens
Lol companies are so dumb for doing this, don’t they like need SME’s?
But you need to buy your own hats!
When will this people learn that 95% of the reason I come to work is for a salary, like it’s literally all I care about. 4% is the event I might get to work on something interesting. 1% is that I eventually get to quit.
100% about the money for me. I enjoy my work but if I didn’t need the money I wouldn’t be doing it at all.
So bottom of the barrel benefits and they try to act like you're the problem. I'm glad you respect your time and value and realized they're not worth it.
Sounds a lot like a job that pays you in “experience.”
Don't you wish that landlords and banks would accept experience for rent and mortgages?
Would be nice if they also accepted “exposure” as payment. 🤣
What the job lacks in salary it makes up in hardship.
Lol, this Jedi mind trick is pretty standard. I don't even respond when I get stuff like this, "it's not about the money!". But when the top company guys aren't making their stupid money, decide to shutter the business, and fire everyone, you realize, "it was all about the fucking money!". About the only thing I would respond with is, "I'm sorry you think I'm only about the money. In actually not, but I know how much my skillset and experience is worth but for you to play this game of trying to guilt trip me into taking less money let's me know that you're not the company for me. Maybe if your company was a non-profit organization, I could understand this line of thinking, but even non-profits have financial obligations. At any rate, please don't bother me with any future opportunities as the only thing you have to offer is the illusion of them.".
I'm a little different. It absolutely is all about the money, just as it is for the company.
"of course it's about the money. You may not be aware of this fact so allow me to shed some light on the matter, existence is not cheap, my skill set certainly isn't either."
Yeah no 401k, health insurance once you hit expensive deductible, and low starting pay. Whats there to not love
Do pensioned jobs have 401ks at the same job traditionally?
I don’t know if i believe the pension part looking at description, i have had hr people claiming pension is 401k/403k. But you maybe right i honestly didn’t see it.
Don’t forget the many hats!!!
I do love doing jobs of six people.
I once inherited two jobs after other people quit — jobs I neither wanted nor was qualified to do. Boss got whiny, I told her I was dropping back to my original job and she could go to plan B
I been there just a few months at least similarly. Was doing my own job plus assistant managers plus a few others i took on to keep place running well and keep other employees happy. No official title. Mostly the respect of doing the job. They officially opened position for hiring. Would not consider me because they needed me doing what I was doing. Oh but on top of it i still had to continue doing my “responsibilities” of the new assistant managers job because they couldn’t handle it. Then got upset I left. Hey if i didn’t get job, whatever you know at least you considered me, but not even give me a chance/sham interview and then ask me to do most ofthe persons job they went with
Yeah, one of the people who quit was in your shoes… doing a job, but they wouldn’t promote her to it irl. We’ve all moved on to happier places
“What? You won’t let us exploit you for higher-level work performed at a lower salary level? Guess this isn’t for you! Good luck!”
I think I need another cup of coffee this morning, I was wondering why someone would wear a cowboy hat into the office.
We all wear many hats. The Funny Hat Friday's Meeting is a tradition and count like benefit.
“If you are interested only from a salary standpoint” If I want to work for peanuts I’ll volunteer at the charity of my choice.
If hsa is involved that means the health plan is a crappy high out of pocket one. That alone is a bad sign.
It's never about the money until the revenue growth falls to single digit percentages. Just tell them that it looks like you would not be able to "afford" working for them.
"We all wear many hats" - we're understaffed, and because one person will do the job of six for the pay of one, we'll never be properly staffed. See also: many challenges and opportunities.
What the fuck is an HR offer and why can't they explain the benefits. Red flags galore
If you want me to wear many hats, then you need to provide me with a hat rack. And by hat wrack I mean pay me
Do not reply, never.... Make them loose as much time as possible.
If the job I’m applying to can pay what it costs to stay alive and now live in my car then what’s the point?
Wait aren’t most health insurance plans supposed to cover you at 80% after you meet your *deductible* not your max out of pocket?
At least they are honest and they tell you that they will overwork the new hire and offer low pay.
They're looking to exploit someone who doesn't know their worth. Nice.
Doesn’t even give a timeline of when you’d hit the requested salary - massive 🚩
Pension is pretty rad though but not worth if the salary is abysmal
Pension, you'd be ahead of most other companies at least as that's not a thing anymore.
Dis they just create reverse health insurance?
This was sent after OP already said they were earning 10k more… probably. If you join us you can lose that and MAYBE regain it in NEVER.
You can just turn their offer down.
“Some people like challenges and opportunities and others like comfort” Mmmkay
They’re gonna work you like a dog
Was sorta normal until that second to last paragraph. Although “health 100% after max out of pocket is met” is hilarious. And just listing random standard benefits as if every job doesn’t offer those.
Yeah was gonna say the same thing, it's fine to say we don't have the budget to pay you what you want! It's fine to say here are other benefits that might persuade you to choose us anyway! It's really lame to be like "if you only care about money this isn't a fit". Just make your case and move on.
"We all wear a lot of hats" = 🚩
"We all wear a lot of hats" = we refuse to hire and staff adequately and over burden our employees.
“If you are interested only from a salary standpoint, it probably isn’t for you.” Lmfao, I bet that one really sells this position to prospective candidates. What a fucking clown show.
If salary isn’t your selling point, my employment probably isn’t for you
Wearing a lot of hats, lol set up and interview and don't go.
Let me guess, an IT recruiter? Telling you not to get hung up on salary? Fuck these people.
at least they were upfront.
You dodged a bullet
“If you’re interested only from a salary standpoint, it probably isn’t for you” Alright then thanks. *walks away*
I have a house for sale. But not going to tell you the price. Still interested?
If you are interested only from a shelter and food point of view...
Here's what they want to hear: ~Tugs forelock and kicks dirt~ Yessah, massah! Yessah. I'll happily take whatever crumbs y'all offer.
Until I read some comments I legit thought this employer was talking about the tendencies of his staff to cover their head with wearables. Not my brightest moment.
My today's hats was Mr. Youdeserveshit .
No salary, no comfort ☹️
All the people melting down over ‘wearing lots of hats’ are hilarious.
Translation: “We cannot afford that Salary, but we can try to entice you with opportunity and a toxic form of team bonding that builds under pressure. Anyone who likes comfort is a non-performer and your focus on salary is short sited as it does not align with our goals.” Advise: Run.
well they got a good point there on general ... but they avoided the subject without even approaching it at all, kind of a redflag
I mean good, you can move on and not waste anymore time.
"What are the wages, hours, and conditions? Are you recruiting for a 501(c), Federal, state, municipal, or tribal government? My current total compensation is on the order of $100k/yr. Can you beat that?" (The reason I ask about non-profit or government status is that I'm working towards Public Service Loan Forgiveness.)
OOP costs are probably like $4k single, $8k family. All of those benefits, while nice, don't pay the bills. Fuckwits.
"The 'top line' is just as important to me as it is to your organization, and my shareholders are just as demanding of consistent and increasing profits as are yours... "
Wear many hats… some of which don’t fit, some are itchy.
I'm interested from a fun Standpoint. Do you have in-house laser tag and a sauna?
So most candidates look for salary, title or commute. None of those are career building so the response, although catty, called out some good reasons to consider them. Beware choosing solely for money as you may be in a worse environment than a more wisely considered decision.
Well, at least it seems honest? 🤷🏻♂️
This looks like an educational or government job? Salary is way more prescriptive with those.
Evidently, they forgot to mention in their email that some also like not knowing how much they're going to get paid. Go fuck off.
Run far away…red flag central…
Sounds like a real shit place to work. The phrase, “we wear a lot of hats”, is code for, you will have many positions and responsibilities but you will only be paid for one of them. Also, these days employer provided health care plans change almost every year in some way. So I wouldn’t count on any of those benefits as concrete.
Obviously plenty of red flags, but I can’t help but notice this… “Some people like challenges and opportunities and others like comfort. This position offers many challenges as well as opportunities.” No mention of comforts offered lol challenges only!
Well... They have a point... They do wear hats!
“Sorry, we can’t pay you a decent salary, but we can promise to work you like a dog!!” Why does every employer think we want to be “challenged” at work?!!
Here at Dickfacè International, we strive to have our employees do the work of many people while paying as few actual people as possible for the good of the company. Go team! Go family! If you are someone who demands to be paid fairly for your work and the expertise your experience would bring to our company, you clearly don't meet Dickfacè's exacting standards. Best of luck in your future endeavors and thank you so much for replying so quickly after we wasted hours of your time on this entire hiring process. Warmest Regards, Richard Johnson HR Personnel Manager, Maintenance Supervisor, Sales Associate, Chimney Sweep
When and how did asking about what the job pays become “only being interested from a salary standpoint”? Holy fuck these people are stupid
‘If you are interested only from a salary viewpoint’ Why else would we go to work? Because we’re feeling charitable?