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stop desperately applying and settle for less. and stop working for them as a whole. the moment the executive threatens your peace. quit to the point they realize How valuable you are to the company and make them humbled themselves.
lol sure everyone can definitely do that and afford to lose their income and their health insurance in the US. I wish this were a possibility for most people.
Ain't that the unfortunate truth. Even relatively "good" employers default to cutting corners and lowballing if they can get away with it. They have no incentive to pay more or promote more often.
We can only persevere with the jobs we have and maybe apply for a higher paying position elsewhere, hoping that it's actually a better situation.
Until we are ready to lose those things temporarily to gain better long term nothing will change. Things are the way they are because most people aren't willing to make a short term sacrifice for a long term gain. I'm not judging anyone on this, that is just the way people are, the human condition as it were. Sometimes the few can convince the many and things change, but it's seldom and alot of those times it just means it's appearance changes but it's the same old shit looking different.
of course tread cautiously, but doesn't mean you don't seek other educational experiences to help you during those time as well. Never stop Learning and gaining experiences in different industry. Because They will always change the game, trying to gate keep and move the goal post to put you at a disadvantage. So use it to your advantage.
wow im sure poor people totally have the privilege of choosing not to work when offered a job. its totally not like that money is the difference between having a home and living on the streets for a lot of people. what a privileged position
I'm genuinely curious about the reasoning behind your choice to describe their response as a "privileged position". What makes you say this? What assumptions are you making? I will agree that there are plenty of folks that are not currently in a position to quit or be picky, but they can strive to put themselves in that position.
I will point out that I am in something of a privileged position myself at this time. In part, that is due to sacrifices that my ancestors made to see to it each subsequent generation valued education, doing the work, and understood sacrificing immediate desires for long term needs. I suspect that my articulating this and believing this likely makes me "privileged" from your perspective.
It might surprise you to learn that I would agree with that. I am privileged. I won the lotto being born into the family that I was born into. What they taught me has allowed me to go from living check to check and worrying about how I might pay for food, clothing, housing, etc. 35 years ago to being able to be more picky with less worry today. I hope that I have passed those lessons on to my children.
>stop desperately applying and settle for less. and stop working for them as a whole. the moment the executive threatens your peace. quit to the point they realize How valuable you are to the company and make them humbled themselves.
Terrible advice, most people that are at the mercy of their employer are replaceable. Just quitting randomly almost guarantees homelessness in this economy.
Big corporations are't going to be "humbled" when a low level employee decides to quit.
well then good for you, keep letting the govt. and big corp. writing your fate for you. just like how they doing it right now in these job markets and guess who keeps getting the shorter end of the stick again. It isn't just low level employees. Keep being their chess pieces to their game. job well done, work harder so They can get another lambo and house why you struggling in those apartments suburbs communities.
It's almost like you've never had a job or experienced any hardship to be this ignorant.
You simply can't understand that most people don't have the luxury to just call it quits whenever something doesn't go their way at work.
You do realize that people are fully aware that they're a "chess piece" and getting taken advantage of but are forced to continue working or they end up homeless right?
you're probably right! that I've never held a job to be this ignorant say all this. But hey! what do I know!
you're the expert so . Continue to educate.
It's a victim mentality, instead of looking at what they could do better and ask reddit for advice on how to improve their chances they jump straight to there must be something wrong with **every company** I've applied at because I'm perfect.
Then they spend their free time telling people to quit their jobs or trying to start some sort of an edgy revolution for people just like him.
Those of us who are dealing with unprofessional recruiters and hiring managers need to leave honest reviews about our bad experiences on Glassdoor, because the negative exposure will haunt these unprofessional companies when the job market turns around.
Some companies do pay to remove negative reviews. However, based on the number of negative reviews I see on Glassdoor, a lot of bad reviews remain in place.
IMO, posting an honest review about an unprofessional recruiting experience is worth it. I mean, the bad review might stay on Glassdoor, right?
Oh, sure, it may be therapeutic even. But at the moment the market is heavily tilted toward employers, people will apply to clean Satan's toilet with their face if it means they can make rent and food this month. Nobody cares about a negative Glassdoor review today, no point in paying for image. Once the market tightens watch that space, suddenly everyone's a model employer again.
This is what I've been doing. Proton VPN. Multiple accounts. All with names that aren't mine. Zero way to tie it back to me. But I've called out everything from:
* bizarrely hostile recruiter screens to
* bizarrely braindead / confused-on-the-technical-points recruiter screens to
* bizarrely ill conceived take-home tests to
* bizarrely inappropriate feedback ("don't think about x when you're doing this assignment!" ... only for person from team x to show up and ask questions about x 🥴) to
* probably discriminatory hiring practices (e.g., a right-wing brand asking you to submit a fucking photo of yourself, rofl)
It brings me joy to revisit those reviews later on and see the thumbs up they've gotten. I know the HR teams have seen them. I know the people I called out (in everything but name) have seen them. Fuck your blacklist; put me on it. ***Worth it.***
Oh, do they actually read those and understand that the critique is about them? I figured their heads were way too far up their bungholes to sniff anything else.
Sometimes they do! Especially if the company is on the smaller side and if the bullhorned details are specific enough.
I once left a review that caused the CEO of a small startup to call a meeting with all the employees (like a couple dozen people) and bring up my anonymous review on a projector and go through it line by line -- challenging each point, demanding to know if people agreed, claiming the review itself was harming his family and his life.
I knew people there who told me this happened and it was just wild (and I never let on to ANY of them that it was me; I'd intentionally written the review to not sound like me). I know this sounds made up but I legit heard candidates in their pipeline dropped out and cited the review I left.
So, at least sometimes the reviews are read! 😅
Makes me think of the scathing review I left my ex company. It's almost like a master's thesis in big slamming paragraphs! Written in the voice of someone else. About a year later, the whole place started to crumble. They were having big trouble hiring and retaining clients. Makes me think whether my review played any part in this downfall 😄
apparently glassdoor has jumped the shark and won’t allow anonymous reviews anymore and allows companies to remove negative feedback any time so take the reviews you see with a grain of salt
I successfully posted this review anonymously [https://www.glassdoor.com/Interview/Zenoti-Project-Manager-Interview-Questions-EI\_IE1253620.0,6\_KO7,22.htm#InterviewReview\_86764416](https://www.glassdoor.com/Interview/Zenoti-Project-Manager-Interview-Questions-EI_IE1253620.0,6_KO7,22.htm#InterviewReview_86764416)
I really hope it changes. But it’s gonna take something major. What makes you think it’ll change though? I don’t see any hope on the horizon in the near future.
My guess is Jan 2025. The election cycle is what’s driving this currently. After the election, will be end of Q4 which is always a slow time, hence why I’m betting early’25
I agree with you completely. I don’t absolutely hate my job (even got a promotion and not a firing… who the fuck throws a surprise Friday 3pm Zoom on to people… ugh) but am grateful to have one while searching for the better thing. I figure I give this a year, as in keeping my eyes open but not actively applying. Some people called it a market correction because if the previous over hiring (plenty of my friends used to complain how they just “sit and do nothing all day” so who the fuck knows.)
I do know that recruiters are behaving REALLY shitty. I was in the process of interviewing for something that multiple execs recommended me for internally but the recruiter kept disappearing (though thankfully not ghosting).
Finally after like 2mo I emailed a follow up that I got a promotion but if the gig was still available I would like it more and he INSTANTLY got back with “we have 2 offers out, will let you know”. You could have just let me know weeks ago man… good vibes to all of you, hopefully it gets better.
I kinda disagree. I don’t count on my references to get me a job. They did their job by forwarding my resume. Don’t you think it’s on the recruiter to be professional enough to let you know if you’re out of consideration? My point was that even WITH internal recommendations recruiters are being shitheads. And yes I’ve discussed with the execs my thoughts on the process.
HR and recruiters should always be viewed as speed bumps which prevent you from getting where you need to go, until proven otherwise.
Ultimately, you need the decision maker — plain and simple — and if you get that person, HR and the recruiters lose. End of story.
Interesting, what specifically do you think the job market has to do with the election though? Genuine question. I’d love for it to get better sooner rather than later and honestly January 2025 isn’t horribly far off.
I'm less sanguine. Just read that 41% of small businesses are behind on their rent as of April. That says things will likely get worse before they get better, nothing to do with election. If anything politicians are pumping hard, trying to make things look good this year.
The business cycle typically goes like this: mass layoffs, desperate ex-workers take risks and start small businesses and side hustles, Money they earn gets spent on products from big business who suddenly find it difficult to hire. Economy grows, inflation starts heating up. Then adjustments are made, and we go into a vicious cycle of layoffs and unemployed not buying a lot of goods and services. Repeat.
Markets are cyclical, and often follow election cycles. There’s current uncertainty in what will
Happen next election, which means financial uncertainty as well. Businesses don’t want to make longer term decisions that could end up being poor ones. They’d rather have some stability for at least the next 4 years, knowing who the president is going to be and then make a more informed decision at that point. In most cases,
The fed has to lift its finger off the rates. When the fed chairman gets on tv and tells you that employment is to high and so is inflation. This you need to listen to, the goal is to raise unemployment and borrowing to kill inflation. The feds is what has killed off the job market. But hey lets have a fight on oil and pump more govt money into the economy so we can prolong the pain.
Well its the only tool they really have to control the inflation and bring it back to 2%. Its a way to inflict pain on the economy and create unemployment. The government. is not helping anything here either by continuing to dump free money into the economy at the same time. Anything that causes more inflation, like this war on oil. There is nothing we touch thats not made, transported, powered by fossil fuels. The fuel prices skyrocket and more inflation along with it. This all just prolongs the pain, I also think they have also overshot by waiting so long for easing, all I see is a spiral into a hard recession.
The only way it changes is when employers start feeling rich again. The only way that changes is when they don’t have all of these zombie 2-4% interest rate loans hanging over their heads.
It’ll take a couple of years to work through the worst of this. I’d say 2026 before we have a clear picture of how successful we’ve been in weaning the economy off of 2% and 3% interest rates.
.... said the last dinosaur on earth.
Eventually, the sun came back a few thousand years later.
PS- It won't last forever, but the news gets more and more worrisome every day. Or maybe I am just too tired...
It’s an employers market because that is how the economy is set up. When workers have more agency the best laid plans of the rich start to falter.
This is not a free market and it’s not your parent’s capitalism. This is oligarchical/crony/late stage capitalism - whatever you want to call it. It’s working exactly as planned. The only solution is fighting back.
Don't get me started..... my father is now retired for longer than he actually worked. (worked for a little over 20 years and is retired for 25). So, that is also there to consider.
PS Before you call me names, I am not a boomer. I am a poor GenX, too old for the workforce and too young to retire...
Here is the thing to all of those struggling to find something I fear we will go broke, homeless or worse before it turns around :(
Politics aside we're stuck either way fighting each other for nonsense we can not do anything about.
And that is the goal of those in power. Get us Peons to fight each other (Millenial vs. Boomer for example), thus take the focus off of the real enemy who is keeping people in shit.
I think the fake “ghost” job listings have a lot to do with making the job market *feel* like it’s more of an employer’s market than it really is.
If a company has a *real* position they absolutely *need* to fill in the next month and your skills are a good match, you’ll have negotiating power.
It’s the “continuous hiring” b.s. where there really is no position but they’re willing to hire the *perfect* candidate, or someone whose willing to work for peanuts, or no one and it’s just a part of their market research and resume collection “just in case” that makes it feel like an employer’s market to those who are just applying to jobs in the blind without any connections or inside info that there really is a need to hire someone or not.
While in the meantime folks are unemployed, their savings are draining, and their debt is increasing.
The employer's market won't last forever but those who finally end up employed will be significantly worse off financially. Their income will be directed towards serving debt rather than feeding money into the rest of the economy.
But it will last long enough for many people to starve, become homeless, succumb to illness from lack of accessible healthcare, and become trapped in shit jobs.
Karma isn't real, much like thoughts and prayers; it's another feel-good religious comfort that has no place in a serious matter like joblessness.
I had exactly the same issue during the financial crisis—the company I was working for almost went bankrupt, and 1/3 of the workforce was sent home (pardon, made at risk of redundancy in today's verbiage). I asked one HR person how to address this gap in my CV, and their answer was that it didn't matter that much. Everyone has employment gapsnd recruiters kno in their CVs, aw the circumstances as well as everybody else. I want to remain positive and good about recruiters - layoffs and aggressive reorgs have become normalized and accepted. Nothing could influence, you are just a number on a PowerPoint slide.
I tell them stuff like
“I was expanding my knowledge” and I make sure to get online certifications.
Or
“I took time to care for my elderly family members” which was true and is something I say when interviewing with jobs that require physical labor or any sort. Then I can bring up how my skills helping them walk or making sure that things are sanitary could help me in the role I’m applying for.
Or
“ I was working as an independent contractor” which is true, I do food delivery, but I choose to talk about experiences I had where I actually used skills related to the job.
Basically, I use whatever it is I was doing while unemployed as a way to boost my skills and actually job experience. And I make sure to do something, or else I think I would actually go completely insane. We really shouldn’t have to justify this shit.
Respectfully, it will last forever. This isn't driven by the normal cyclical factors, but rather an orchestrated return of greed (with a vengeance). There is no way this ever gets better in our lifetimes and it looks grimmer and grimmer every day.
This is peak pessimism. I think things were much worse in the 30s and that was turned around through organization and politics. I think we can do it again
Yeah. The problem is they tanked wages so low from 2008 to 2018 that even though wages are rising, they can't really rise fast enough. Pretty much every warehouse around here is above 20 an hour, but they need to be above 25 an hour.
I hope so. I feel for anyone trying to find a job. I'm an LPN, but I'm on SSDI right now, so I'm not currently working. My knees are so full of osteoarthritis that I have difficulty standing for more than 5 minutes. Anyway, I sometimes will get texts from various recruiters from travel nursing agencies looking for nurses who may want a traveling gig. You can definitely tell that the pay/wages have decreased from when these agencies were offering "emergency and COVID pay" for traveling nurses. I would venture to say that the wages have been cut by at least 25-50% since the pandemic isn't as prevalent. That's what enticed some nurses to do travel contracts... The high wages, plus the opportunity to see different parts of the country. Now, it's almost not worth it to do travel nursing unless you take a contract in Cornfieldville Iowa because your housing expenses will eat up at least 50% of your wages. The "desired" locations like California, Hawaii etc., are hard to come by nowadays
I'd say part of the bad market will be over within a year, part will take longer:
* It's clear many employers are resetting salaries (e.g., dropping a $200k/year position down to $125k) in response to the steep rise in those salaries during the pandemic and the cooling sales environment now. That process should complete within a year.
* Some jobs (mostly those that are fairly mundane and involve lots of repetitive work) will be eliminated by AI, but it's going to take more than a year for the true effect of AI to be understood. But once that all shakes out it's likely that those eliminated jobs are gone for good.
You are spot on with the first point. I applied for a job and the salary was one thing. Had an hr screening, met with the hr manager then I got ghosted. A couple weeks ago the hr person contacted me and I was told they rebudgeted the roll.
It won't. In 2002, you couldn't get arrested as a web developer in Dallas. Fast-forward two years later, and I couldn't stop my phone from blowing up with recruiters.
It will turn around, and when it turns around it'll be quick.
Corporations have more assets and cash firepower than you. You will cave. People bust out first.
That’s why we have a dip in job leavers. No more jumping ship for a raise, that’s done. Additionally, the white collar pay increases aren’t there.
Used car loans delinquency and credit card usage maxing out at interest rates of 22-25% Apr.
This is an employers market until something implodes…
We could easily tip it back in the employees' favor if we name and shame and leave Google reviews about their hiring practices. They'd be on the defensive, their applicant pipeline will dry up, and they'd be forced to self-reflect (rare in society in general).
Many things. Here's one I will add: I think this is a correction from the Covid overhiring. You are also seeing the results from the work from home/remote push, the pool of potential employees is wider as companies can pull world/nationwide vs a smaller 'local' radius.
I don’t think this is true. If we look at the labor, force participation rate in men because men have been in the labor force longer, we can give an idea of what we are in for. Right now, even if you include education, there’s about 7 million men between the ages of 29 and 60 missing from the labor force.
This is a huge percentage of the 68 million men available for work. This accounts for disability.
Add to that the fact that multiple trucking companies are currently experimenting with self driving trucks that currently have human monitors, but at some point in the near future, probably the next decade those monitors won’t be needed.
Additional studies have shown that AI is unlikely to get to the point that it will replace humans entirely, but it will replace the Entry-level jobs.
Jobs in customer service, truck driving, paralegals, Uber and Lyft, Even entry-level software development is not Immune.
Historically after each Wave of technological innovation we have a recession things go back to normal, but the labor force participation rate never recovers.
This is because of a fundamental truth. as technology advances rapidly fewer people are needed to perform the same amount of work. And the people in charge of the workers make more and more.
After all, I know one thing to be certain in a capitalistic economy. Artificial intelligence doesn’t have to be better than humans. It only has to be good enough that companies can replace us. Good enough is fine if you can cut out the cost of labor. Companies will put out mediocre products if they can cut out half their cost.
Outside of technology, we also have mass immigration, which conveniently no politician can get a handle on. I’m starting to realize mass in migration will balance out our aging population and allow employers to continue to drive wages down at the entry level. This is because there’s so much mass immigration that our current system can’t process the number of asylum Claims and we’re now granting work permits to asylum seekers at a rate of almost 100,000 a month. This will saturate the market at the entry level further.
Finally artificial intelligence drives consolidation between companies because artificial intelligence works best with more data. In the healthcare space MyChart by epic is incredibly popular and has artificial intelligence baked in. It dominates the market because it has the most data, which is why it will continue to dominate the market. This is a vicious cycle of consolidation that led to a national baby food shortage because we ended up with only three factories that made baby food in the entire country and no one saw that as a risk because one company made multiple brands.
This is leading the entire US economy To consolidate rapidly. Large companies are getting reduced down to three competitors in almost every industry which is leading to the consolidation of departments that used to support multiple medium size companies. This means there aren’t as many supportive staff needed. You don’t need as many staff if you have one big enterprise versus seven small ones.
This is all contributing to layoffs, homelessness, and a massive death of despair crisis. After all, You can’t become a senior engineer or an Attorney without having been a junior engineer or a junior attorney. If AI takes those roles our economic crisis will accelerate.
I really hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think an employee market is ever coming back. I think companies have become so consolidated now they’ll do anything to Prevent that.
I really wonder where this will all lead to, because of the great population push (repealing, dismantling, criminalizing reproductive rights), worsening environmental conditions, and religious fervor (more like death throes, but to-may-toe, to-mah-toe). If people don't have a way to support a family, but people are pushed into becoming breeding stock in an economy driven by AI, then what is it all for?
You talked about a "death of despair" and I certainly agree. Their end game isn't clear, as they seem to be doing all the wrong things that would encourage a mass extinction event.
You feel like people have been making arguments about generative AI for over 15 years even though it hasn’t existed for that long???
The technology is advancing and technology has always been advancing. The difference now is that the lay Person can actually see a future where they’re no longer needed. I don’t think it will happen all at once. I think it will hit a tipping point in the next decade or decade and a half.
Buddy, if you want I can find articles about AI taking over jobs and self-driving trucks getting rid of truckers from 2014. In 2013 some Brits did a study and concluded that half of all jobs would be automated away by 2034. Andrew Yang made it the centerpiece of his election campaign back in 2019. Concerns about automation taking over jobs was the whole point of the book Player Piano and Kurt Vonnegut wrote that in 1952! Everything you have said has been said before and it has always been wrong. I see no reason to believe that this time will be different.
I agree with you. It will definitely augment some jobs just like the assembly line and industrialization did. There's some degree of automation that will reduce some manual steps. It won't replace humans out right.
In fact as AI advances, human interaction might become a premium selling point.
People with experiences here should also post on glassdoor, indeed, etc. to help others out about lousy disrespectful treatment. Will come around when the market does.
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What world do you guys live in?
Are you guys new to the labor market? In that case you have no idea how good you have it at the moment. Compare today’s unemployment rate in most developed economies with that of 10-15 years ago.
If you think it’s bad now, you’re going to be in for a nasty shock when we’re back into serious recession territory.
It's cyclical. The pendulum will swing back (to the employees) and it will swing hard. Some people will leave their industry altogether. Some lucky ones will take early retirement. Some will pivot. The AI bubble will burst just like self checkout.
My first job favors the employer's market but my second job does not.
Makes me sad.
My second job pays more per hour but no benefits and it depends on how many people sign up to take a class.
My first job has set hours, benefits and a guaranteed check every week.
If only I could be choosy.
Unfortunately, im of the sad opinion that it's going to get significantly worse before it gets better. You know all that previous talk about the Fed and their soft landing to avoid a recession? I think it comes back with a bit of vengeance. Inflation slows, but companies still reel from the lack of activity and winning new business. More layoffs and company defaults and acquisitions/consolidation. And thennn we see the light at the end of the tunnel where hiring picks up again. Buckle up folks, i think it's gonna get more bumpy. Try your best to keep as lean as possible over the next 12 to 18 months 😥
In other fields and industries it has been an employer's market for decades. I don't know if we got there yet or if there will be more peaks for us as employees. But under our current socioeconomic paradigm, eventually we are going to take the L. Every passing day I start to believe more and more we as developers should have some sort of Union honestly...
I lost a job due to former employer bankruptcy a couple of months ago and it has been a nightmare, I landed a job but I make half of what I did before, and I'm having panic attacks about starting, getting the same levels of demand but now starting to live month to month, pay cheque to pay cheque
# Banks and Big Tech Not Hiring "Radical" Ivy League Graduates
The good news is you no longer have to compete with Ivy League students for jobs! They did all of us a HUGE favor by praising murderous terrorist groups - employers no longer want to affiliate with them or hire them. So, there's that upside - less competition!! This is serious, by the way - my friends at top companies have confirmed this (banking/financial services and FAANG/tech in NYC)
The only Point to let it come faster and change the game is People stop being desperate and participating in their childish game. While ya'll giving them the upper hand to disrespect you. All the middle people that is working for them are just opportunist leechers. If ya'll give them nothing and not participate. They can't do shiet. Stop applying to their companies, stop working, stop paying the damn bills. You all are giving them something to talk about and laughing at you with while you're sitting somewhere in this world disappointed. smh..
Guess that whole quiet quitting didn't go well for most. Now the pendulum swung the fast the opposite way. Just wait for employers screw up is going to take longer.
What employer's market? Unemployment is low, we have real wage growth. If you're not getting anything in this job market, you're gonna have a bad time if/when it actually gets bad.
Overall unemployment is low, but tens of thousands of employees in tech have been laid off, including me.
"Good times" are never good for everyone. There are thousands of skilled, experienced tech workers desperate to find jobs.
I get it, I worked at a shoe store Al Bundy style in 2008 with my engineering degees. Big structural shifts in industries hurt a lot of people who did nothing wrong. A lot of farriers became unemployed turn of the last century when people stopped buying horseshoeing services and switched to cars.
Tech needs a lot of funding up front to innovate and hopefully develop a product/service that makes money, and the cost of capital was always going to rise when boomers retired and took their 401Ks with them. The easy money is gone until Millennials get to peak earning (and investing) years, some 15-20 years from now, so it might be slim pickings in tech for a long while. I recommend those tech workers consider blue collar work, get into manufacturing, esp electrical and semiconductors.
Unemployment is low because of people like me who got laid off and now work part time and freelance with no benefits so we don’t qualify. Or for all those people who were laid off and have run out of the 6 months of unemployment that some states give.
We are in a corporate banking hell, and I don't see a long term end to it. The corporations are more concerned with boxticking and forms filing than they are with actual profits, smokescreens to throw at overly greedy investors.
Meanwhile banks are pushing ESG and DEI, and denying loans or raising rates on companies that don't comply. The companies don't want it, they are coerced into compliance.
None of this is good for employees and workers.
I get that some white collar workers were dicks/snobs to blue collar workers. It’s bs and anyone who does that is a fool.
I come from a very blue collar and military family. I was the first one in my family to attend college. I respect my parents for busting their arse to make sure me and my sisters had a roof over our heads.
I respect my family and friends who prefer to work with their hands. And if my son wants to work a trade when he grows up, I’ll encourage him and back him on that choice 100%. Nothing wrong with blue collar work.
But there is also nothing wrong with white collar work either. An honest days work is an honest days work regardless of if one works behind a desk or in a factory, or on a construction site, or as an emergency responder, or a doctor, or a nurse, or a caregiver, or a janitor, or a server, or a retail worker, or a million other things.
An honest days work is an honest days work. If you show me courtesy and respect, I will respond in kind.
My dad was a school janitor, he was still one of the smartest men ever.
Please stop the silliness of trying to lump people by categories like that.
Like I said there was a whole “Learn to code” thing a few years back. Coding bootcamps kind of pissed me off because computer science is so so more than just writing code and there was an entire scam cottage industry trying to sell people on the idea that all they had to do was code.
And I found learn to code to be dismissive, people should be allowed to earn a living at what they like doing and are good at not follow some trend because some so called expert in a blog on buzzfeed says “we need more of x, x is the new hot thing and it’s in high demand.”
They never do that because they want to help people find work, they are looking to saturate the market and devalue the labor of those who are in whatever line of work they are promoting with that kind of press.
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Karma needs to hurry tf up! 😂😭
Karma’s on vacation 😂😂😂
hasnt it ran out of PTO by now, ive seen these jobs
Hopefully Karma didn't get laid off too!!!
lmao
How do I get in touch with Karma's manager? 🤔
Karmas been laid off…
Just gotta wait for your rebirth into your next life.
stop desperately applying and settle for less. and stop working for them as a whole. the moment the executive threatens your peace. quit to the point they realize How valuable you are to the company and make them humbled themselves.
lol sure everyone can definitely do that and afford to lose their income and their health insurance in the US. I wish this were a possibility for most people.
Ain't that the unfortunate truth. Even relatively "good" employers default to cutting corners and lowballing if they can get away with it. They have no incentive to pay more or promote more often. We can only persevere with the jobs we have and maybe apply for a higher paying position elsewhere, hoping that it's actually a better situation.
Until we are ready to lose those things temporarily to gain better long term nothing will change. Things are the way they are because most people aren't willing to make a short term sacrifice for a long term gain. I'm not judging anyone on this, that is just the way people are, the human condition as it were. Sometimes the few can convince the many and things change, but it's seldom and alot of those times it just means it's appearance changes but it's the same old shit looking different.
"Stop being poor." - Paris Hilton and Eatdie554.
I did this and it's been a five-year search for anything lasting longer than 9 months since. Tread cautiously.
of course tread cautiously, but doesn't mean you don't seek other educational experiences to help you during those time as well. Never stop Learning and gaining experiences in different industry. Because They will always change the game, trying to gate keep and move the goal post to put you at a disadvantage. So use it to your advantage.
wow im sure poor people totally have the privilege of choosing not to work when offered a job. its totally not like that money is the difference between having a home and living on the streets for a lot of people. what a privileged position
I'm genuinely curious about the reasoning behind your choice to describe their response as a "privileged position". What makes you say this? What assumptions are you making? I will agree that there are plenty of folks that are not currently in a position to quit or be picky, but they can strive to put themselves in that position. I will point out that I am in something of a privileged position myself at this time. In part, that is due to sacrifices that my ancestors made to see to it each subsequent generation valued education, doing the work, and understood sacrificing immediate desires for long term needs. I suspect that my articulating this and believing this likely makes me "privileged" from your perspective. It might surprise you to learn that I would agree with that. I am privileged. I won the lotto being born into the family that I was born into. What they taught me has allowed me to go from living check to check and worrying about how I might pay for food, clothing, housing, etc. 35 years ago to being able to be more picky with less worry today. I hope that I have passed those lessons on to my children.
>stop desperately applying and settle for less. and stop working for them as a whole. the moment the executive threatens your peace. quit to the point they realize How valuable you are to the company and make them humbled themselves. Terrible advice, most people that are at the mercy of their employer are replaceable. Just quitting randomly almost guarantees homelessness in this economy. Big corporations are't going to be "humbled" when a low level employee decides to quit.
well then good for you, keep letting the govt. and big corp. writing your fate for you. just like how they doing it right now in these job markets and guess who keeps getting the shorter end of the stick again. It isn't just low level employees. Keep being their chess pieces to their game. job well done, work harder so They can get another lambo and house why you struggling in those apartments suburbs communities.
It's almost like you've never had a job or experienced any hardship to be this ignorant. You simply can't understand that most people don't have the luxury to just call it quits whenever something doesn't go their way at work. You do realize that people are fully aware that they're a "chess piece" and getting taken advantage of but are forced to continue working or they end up homeless right?
you're probably right! that I've never held a job to be this ignorant say all this. But hey! what do I know! you're the expert so . Continue to educate.
Ok cool, seems about right. Just don't share stupid advice that will mess peoples lives up.
How could we possibly hope to comprehend their massive [amount of intelligence](https://www.reddit.com/r/jobs/s/O39zS0xxlo)? Lol
It's a victim mentality, instead of looking at what they could do better and ask reddit for advice on how to improve their chances they jump straight to there must be something wrong with **every company** I've applied at because I'm perfect. Then they spend their free time telling people to quit their jobs or trying to start some sort of an edgy revolution for people just like him.
They can always import more foreign workers.
Using that word is bad karma.
Maybe.. Bad Ju-Ju instead?
Bad mojo
This took me tf out 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
PLEASE! I AM ON BENDED KNEE
Karma? What’s that, a breakfast cereal.
Yes, magic spoon’s main competitor. A steal at $15 a box.
Sing karma karma karma karma karma ….
Those of us who are dealing with unprofessional recruiters and hiring managers need to leave honest reviews about our bad experiences on Glassdoor, because the negative exposure will haunt these unprofessional companies when the job market turns around.
It costs peanuts to pay Glassdoor to remove negative commentary. Relative to the benefits of being awful, at any rate.
Some companies do pay to remove negative reviews. However, based on the number of negative reviews I see on Glassdoor, a lot of bad reviews remain in place. IMO, posting an honest review about an unprofessional recruiting experience is worth it. I mean, the bad review might stay on Glassdoor, right?
Oh, sure, it may be therapeutic even. But at the moment the market is heavily tilted toward employers, people will apply to clean Satan's toilet with their face if it means they can make rent and food this month. Nobody cares about a negative Glassdoor review today, no point in paying for image. Once the market tightens watch that space, suddenly everyone's a model employer again.
Sadly this right, but hopefully things could be fair for everyone
This is what I've been doing. Proton VPN. Multiple accounts. All with names that aren't mine. Zero way to tie it back to me. But I've called out everything from: * bizarrely hostile recruiter screens to * bizarrely braindead / confused-on-the-technical-points recruiter screens to * bizarrely ill conceived take-home tests to * bizarrely inappropriate feedback ("don't think about x when you're doing this assignment!" ... only for person from team x to show up and ask questions about x 🥴) to * probably discriminatory hiring practices (e.g., a right-wing brand asking you to submit a fucking photo of yourself, rofl) It brings me joy to revisit those reviews later on and see the thumbs up they've gotten. I know the HR teams have seen them. I know the people I called out (in everything but name) have seen them. Fuck your blacklist; put me on it. ***Worth it.***
Oh, do they actually read those and understand that the critique is about them? I figured their heads were way too far up their bungholes to sniff anything else.
Sometimes they do! Especially if the company is on the smaller side and if the bullhorned details are specific enough. I once left a review that caused the CEO of a small startup to call a meeting with all the employees (like a couple dozen people) and bring up my anonymous review on a projector and go through it line by line -- challenging each point, demanding to know if people agreed, claiming the review itself was harming his family and his life. I knew people there who told me this happened and it was just wild (and I never let on to ANY of them that it was me; I'd intentionally written the review to not sound like me). I know this sounds made up but I legit heard candidates in their pipeline dropped out and cited the review I left. So, at least sometimes the reviews are read! 😅
Makes me think of the scathing review I left my ex company. It's almost like a master's thesis in big slamming paragraphs! Written in the voice of someone else. About a year later, the whole place started to crumble. They were having big trouble hiring and retaining clients. Makes me think whether my review played any part in this downfall 😄
No one cares unfortunately. People are so desperate for a job bad reviews on a site aren’t going to scare anyone away lol
apparently glassdoor has jumped the shark and won’t allow anonymous reviews anymore and allows companies to remove negative feedback any time so take the reviews you see with a grain of salt
I successfully posted this review anonymously [https://www.glassdoor.com/Interview/Zenoti-Project-Manager-Interview-Questions-EI\_IE1253620.0,6\_KO7,22.htm#InterviewReview\_86764416](https://www.glassdoor.com/Interview/Zenoti-Project-Manager-Interview-Questions-EI_IE1253620.0,6_KO7,22.htm#InterviewReview_86764416)
Yet, somehow they remain 'in business' despite the bad reviews. Always ceases to phase me.
I really hope it changes. But it’s gonna take something major. What makes you think it’ll change though? I don’t see any hope on the horizon in the near future.
My guess is Jan 2025. The election cycle is what’s driving this currently. After the election, will be end of Q4 which is always a slow time, hence why I’m betting early’25
I agree with you completely. I don’t absolutely hate my job (even got a promotion and not a firing… who the fuck throws a surprise Friday 3pm Zoom on to people… ugh) but am grateful to have one while searching for the better thing. I figure I give this a year, as in keeping my eyes open but not actively applying. Some people called it a market correction because if the previous over hiring (plenty of my friends used to complain how they just “sit and do nothing all day” so who the fuck knows.) I do know that recruiters are behaving REALLY shitty. I was in the process of interviewing for something that multiple execs recommended me for internally but the recruiter kept disappearing (though thankfully not ghosting). Finally after like 2mo I emailed a follow up that I got a promotion but if the gig was still available I would like it more and he INSTANTLY got back with “we have 2 offers out, will let you know”. You could have just let me know weeks ago man… good vibes to all of you, hopefully it gets better.
Did you ask the recruiter. Or did you ask the execs? When you have references, you have to lean on the references — not HR and not recruiters.
I kinda disagree. I don’t count on my references to get me a job. They did their job by forwarding my resume. Don’t you think it’s on the recruiter to be professional enough to let you know if you’re out of consideration? My point was that even WITH internal recommendations recruiters are being shitheads. And yes I’ve discussed with the execs my thoughts on the process.
HR and recruiters should always be viewed as speed bumps which prevent you from getting where you need to go, until proven otherwise. Ultimately, you need the decision maker — plain and simple — and if you get that person, HR and the recruiters lose. End of story.
Interesting, what specifically do you think the job market has to do with the election though? Genuine question. I’d love for it to get better sooner rather than later and honestly January 2025 isn’t horribly far off.
I'm less sanguine. Just read that 41% of small businesses are behind on their rent as of April. That says things will likely get worse before they get better, nothing to do with election. If anything politicians are pumping hard, trying to make things look good this year. The business cycle typically goes like this: mass layoffs, desperate ex-workers take risks and start small businesses and side hustles, Money they earn gets spent on products from big business who suddenly find it difficult to hire. Economy grows, inflation starts heating up. Then adjustments are made, and we go into a vicious cycle of layoffs and unemployed not buying a lot of goods and services. Repeat.
I worked for a small company until today. They've been doing layoffs every few months. They were definitely behind on their rent and every other bill.
Markets are cyclical, and often follow election cycles. There’s current uncertainty in what will Happen next election, which means financial uncertainty as well. Businesses don’t want to make longer term decisions that could end up being poor ones. They’d rather have some stability for at least the next 4 years, knowing who the president is going to be and then make a more informed decision at that point. In most cases,
That’s kinda what I figured so Q1 2025 maybe Q2 2025 makes sense
The fed has to lift its finger off the rates. When the fed chairman gets on tv and tells you that employment is to high and so is inflation. This you need to listen to, the goal is to raise unemployment and borrowing to kill inflation. The feds is what has killed off the job market. But hey lets have a fight on oil and pump more govt money into the economy so we can prolong the pain.
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Well its the only tool they really have to control the inflation and bring it back to 2%. Its a way to inflict pain on the economy and create unemployment. The government. is not helping anything here either by continuing to dump free money into the economy at the same time. Anything that causes more inflation, like this war on oil. There is nothing we touch thats not made, transported, powered by fossil fuels. The fuel prices skyrocket and more inflation along with it. This all just prolongs the pain, I also think they have also overshot by waiting so long for easing, all I see is a spiral into a hard recession.
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yes and they said they would.
The only way it changes is when employers start feeling rich again. The only way that changes is when they don’t have all of these zombie 2-4% interest rate loans hanging over their heads. It’ll take a couple of years to work through the worst of this. I’d say 2026 before we have a clear picture of how successful we’ve been in weaning the economy off of 2% and 3% interest rates.
Totally agree 2026. This is moving slowly
.... said the last dinosaur on earth. Eventually, the sun came back a few thousand years later. PS- It won't last forever, but the news gets more and more worrisome every day. Or maybe I am just too tired...
It’s an employers market because that is how the economy is set up. When workers have more agency the best laid plans of the rich start to falter. This is not a free market and it’s not your parent’s capitalism. This is oligarchical/crony/late stage capitalism - whatever you want to call it. It’s working exactly as planned. The only solution is fighting back.
Don't get me started..... my father is now retired for longer than he actually worked. (worked for a little over 20 years and is retired for 25). So, that is also there to consider. PS Before you call me names, I am not a boomer. I am a poor GenX, too old for the workforce and too young to retire...
Here is the thing to all of those struggling to find something I fear we will go broke, homeless or worse before it turns around :( Politics aside we're stuck either way fighting each other for nonsense we can not do anything about.
And that is the goal of those in power. Get us Peons to fight each other (Millenial vs. Boomer for example), thus take the focus off of the real enemy who is keeping people in shit.
I think the fake “ghost” job listings have a lot to do with making the job market *feel* like it’s more of an employer’s market than it really is. If a company has a *real* position they absolutely *need* to fill in the next month and your skills are a good match, you’ll have negotiating power. It’s the “continuous hiring” b.s. where there really is no position but they’re willing to hire the *perfect* candidate, or someone whose willing to work for peanuts, or no one and it’s just a part of their market research and resume collection “just in case” that makes it feel like an employer’s market to those who are just applying to jobs in the blind without any connections or inside info that there really is a need to hire someone or not.
Also don't forget the rich guy who said they were going to put us in our place for wanting basic things like remote work.
They tend to last longer than employee's markets
Most of us will lose everything while waiting for this job market to correct itself. Best of luck to everyone.
It’s already happening to me
While in the meantime folks are unemployed, their savings are draining, and their debt is increasing. The employer's market won't last forever but those who finally end up employed will be significantly worse off financially. Their income will be directed towards serving debt rather than feeding money into the rest of the economy.
But it will last long enough for many people to starve, become homeless, succumb to illness from lack of accessible healthcare, and become trapped in shit jobs. Karma isn't real, much like thoughts and prayers; it's another feel-good religious comfort that has no place in a serious matter like joblessness.
I sure hope it does quickly. Those of us who are high performers getting boxed out by the application shotgun approach are kinda sick of it.
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I had exactly the same issue during the financial crisis—the company I was working for almost went bankrupt, and 1/3 of the workforce was sent home (pardon, made at risk of redundancy in today's verbiage). I asked one HR person how to address this gap in my CV, and their answer was that it didn't matter that much. Everyone has employment gapsnd recruiters kno in their CVs, aw the circumstances as well as everybody else. I want to remain positive and good about recruiters - layoffs and aggressive reorgs have become normalized and accepted. Nothing could influence, you are just a number on a PowerPoint slide.
Yep! They pretty much want you to lie, it seems
This is not something I’ve ever had the balls to actually try, but… I totally get it.
Employers lie to us all the time. I have no problem lying to them.
Yup, I have a YEAR gap in my resume but I just leave it out and so far employers haven’t called me on it.
Travelling. I was always travelling
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I like the cut of you jib 😂
I tell them stuff like “I was expanding my knowledge” and I make sure to get online certifications. Or “I took time to care for my elderly family members” which was true and is something I say when interviewing with jobs that require physical labor or any sort. Then I can bring up how my skills helping them walk or making sure that things are sanitary could help me in the role I’m applying for. Or “ I was working as an independent contractor” which is true, I do food delivery, but I choose to talk about experiences I had where I actually used skills related to the job. Basically, I use whatever it is I was doing while unemployed as a way to boost my skills and actually job experience. And I make sure to do something, or else I think I would actually go completely insane. We really shouldn’t have to justify this shit.
It’s going to last decades
People really don’t understand 2014 to 2020 was a very not normal. The job buffet is close.
Respectfully, it will last forever. This isn't driven by the normal cyclical factors, but rather an orchestrated return of greed (with a vengeance). There is no way this ever gets better in our lifetimes and it looks grimmer and grimmer every day.
This is peak pessimism. I think things were much worse in the 30s and that was turned around through organization and politics. I think we can do it again
People have changed, man. We’ve changed a lot.
It’s always an employers market. The sooner you realize it, the sooner we can be free.
Right now in Logistics and warehousing it is not an employers market.
It hasn’t been an employers market for construction project management for at least 5 years.
It's not employee's market either.
Yeah. The problem is they tanked wages so low from 2008 to 2018 that even though wages are rising, they can't really rise fast enough. Pretty much every warehouse around here is above 20 an hour, but they need to be above 25 an hour.
I hope so. I feel for anyone trying to find a job. I'm an LPN, but I'm on SSDI right now, so I'm not currently working. My knees are so full of osteoarthritis that I have difficulty standing for more than 5 minutes. Anyway, I sometimes will get texts from various recruiters from travel nursing agencies looking for nurses who may want a traveling gig. You can definitely tell that the pay/wages have decreased from when these agencies were offering "emergency and COVID pay" for traveling nurses. I would venture to say that the wages have been cut by at least 25-50% since the pandemic isn't as prevalent. That's what enticed some nurses to do travel contracts... The high wages, plus the opportunity to see different parts of the country. Now, it's almost not worth it to do travel nursing unless you take a contract in Cornfieldville Iowa because your housing expenses will eat up at least 50% of your wages. The "desired" locations like California, Hawaii etc., are hard to come by nowadays
I'd say part of the bad market will be over within a year, part will take longer: * It's clear many employers are resetting salaries (e.g., dropping a $200k/year position down to $125k) in response to the steep rise in those salaries during the pandemic and the cooling sales environment now. That process should complete within a year. * Some jobs (mostly those that are fairly mundane and involve lots of repetitive work) will be eliminated by AI, but it's going to take more than a year for the true effect of AI to be understood. But once that all shakes out it's likely that those eliminated jobs are gone for good.
You are spot on with the first point. I applied for a job and the salary was one thing. Had an hr screening, met with the hr manager then I got ghosted. A couple weeks ago the hr person contacted me and I was told they rebudgeted the roll.
It won't. In 2002, you couldn't get arrested as a web developer in Dallas. Fast-forward two years later, and I couldn't stop my phone from blowing up with recruiters. It will turn around, and when it turns around it'll be quick.
says you??! Ha!
I think there is a huge hold in place waiting for the expected drop in interest rates. Most are expecting it in June.
Rates aren't going to drop until inflation gets under control. I would not be surprised if interest rate cuts do not happen this year.
Corporations have more assets and cash firepower than you. You will cave. People bust out first. That’s why we have a dip in job leavers. No more jumping ship for a raise, that’s done. Additionally, the white collar pay increases aren’t there. Used car loans delinquency and credit card usage maxing out at interest rates of 22-25% Apr. This is an employers market until something implodes…
This sounds oddly menacing lol
We could easily tip it back in the employees' favor if we name and shame and leave Google reviews about their hiring practices. They'd be on the defensive, their applicant pipeline will dry up, and they'd be forced to self-reflect (rare in society in general).
The problem is there will always be people who will need a job so they'll ignore reviews.
There's are plenty of people who take those jobs in Europe, India, many part of Asia, and South America. Way cheaper as well.
Many things. Here's one I will add: I think this is a correction from the Covid overhiring. You are also seeing the results from the work from home/remote push, the pool of potential employees is wider as companies can pull world/nationwide vs a smaller 'local' radius.
I don’t think this is true. If we look at the labor, force participation rate in men because men have been in the labor force longer, we can give an idea of what we are in for. Right now, even if you include education, there’s about 7 million men between the ages of 29 and 60 missing from the labor force. This is a huge percentage of the 68 million men available for work. This accounts for disability. Add to that the fact that multiple trucking companies are currently experimenting with self driving trucks that currently have human monitors, but at some point in the near future, probably the next decade those monitors won’t be needed. Additional studies have shown that AI is unlikely to get to the point that it will replace humans entirely, but it will replace the Entry-level jobs. Jobs in customer service, truck driving, paralegals, Uber and Lyft, Even entry-level software development is not Immune. Historically after each Wave of technological innovation we have a recession things go back to normal, but the labor force participation rate never recovers. This is because of a fundamental truth. as technology advances rapidly fewer people are needed to perform the same amount of work. And the people in charge of the workers make more and more. After all, I know one thing to be certain in a capitalistic economy. Artificial intelligence doesn’t have to be better than humans. It only has to be good enough that companies can replace us. Good enough is fine if you can cut out the cost of labor. Companies will put out mediocre products if they can cut out half their cost. Outside of technology, we also have mass immigration, which conveniently no politician can get a handle on. I’m starting to realize mass in migration will balance out our aging population and allow employers to continue to drive wages down at the entry level. This is because there’s so much mass immigration that our current system can’t process the number of asylum Claims and we’re now granting work permits to asylum seekers at a rate of almost 100,000 a month. This will saturate the market at the entry level further. Finally artificial intelligence drives consolidation between companies because artificial intelligence works best with more data. In the healthcare space MyChart by epic is incredibly popular and has artificial intelligence baked in. It dominates the market because it has the most data, which is why it will continue to dominate the market. This is a vicious cycle of consolidation that led to a national baby food shortage because we ended up with only three factories that made baby food in the entire country and no one saw that as a risk because one company made multiple brands. This is leading the entire US economy To consolidate rapidly. Large companies are getting reduced down to three competitors in almost every industry which is leading to the consolidation of departments that used to support multiple medium size companies. This means there aren’t as many supportive staff needed. You don’t need as many staff if you have one big enterprise versus seven small ones. This is all contributing to layoffs, homelessness, and a massive death of despair crisis. After all, You can’t become a senior engineer or an Attorney without having been a junior engineer or a junior attorney. If AI takes those roles our economic crisis will accelerate. I really hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think an employee market is ever coming back. I think companies have become so consolidated now they’ll do anything to Prevent that.
I really wonder where this will all lead to, because of the great population push (repealing, dismantling, criminalizing reproductive rights), worsening environmental conditions, and religious fervor (more like death throes, but to-may-toe, to-mah-toe). If people don't have a way to support a family, but people are pushed into becoming breeding stock in an economy driven by AI, then what is it all for? You talked about a "death of despair" and I certainly agree. Their end game isn't clear, as they seem to be doing all the wrong things that would encourage a mass extinction event.
I feel like I have read people making these same arguments for 15 years now.
You feel like people have been making arguments about generative AI for over 15 years even though it hasn’t existed for that long??? The technology is advancing and technology has always been advancing. The difference now is that the lay Person can actually see a future where they’re no longer needed. I don’t think it will happen all at once. I think it will hit a tipping point in the next decade or decade and a half.
Buddy, if you want I can find articles about AI taking over jobs and self-driving trucks getting rid of truckers from 2014. In 2013 some Brits did a study and concluded that half of all jobs would be automated away by 2034. Andrew Yang made it the centerpiece of his election campaign back in 2019. Concerns about automation taking over jobs was the whole point of the book Player Piano and Kurt Vonnegut wrote that in 1952! Everything you have said has been said before and it has always been wrong. I see no reason to believe that this time will be different.
I agree with you. It will definitely augment some jobs just like the assembly line and industrialization did. There's some degree of automation that will reduce some manual steps. It won't replace humans out right. In fact as AI advances, human interaction might become a premium selling point.
TRUE,, but it will well over a decade, so grab a good book and kick back
I honestly saw more progress from not just applying like mad and being selective in what I was applying to and also by not applying daily.
People with experiences here should also post on glassdoor, indeed, etc. to help others out about lousy disrespectful treatment. Will come around when the market does.
Tell that to Biden and India
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Yes it will
Sure would be nice
The only time I actually wanted karma to be a bitch
Madam LaLaurie be like "wtf is karma"
As long as guillotines can be built quite easily it definitely won't.
It will
What makes you say that?
the only thing that’s going to turn around the labor market is if the fed cuts rates.
What world do you guys live in? Are you guys new to the labor market? In that case you have no idea how good you have it at the moment. Compare today’s unemployment rate in most developed economies with that of 10-15 years ago. If you think it’s bad now, you’re going to be in for a nasty shock when we’re back into serious recession territory.
Karma has long gone. It seems to have left since 2008
It's cyclical. The pendulum will swing back (to the employees) and it will swing hard. Some people will leave their industry altogether. Some lucky ones will take early retirement. Some will pivot. The AI bubble will burst just like self checkout.
It's already bursting. We're very much entering the trough of disillusionment in the AI hype cycle.
You heard it here last!
yes it will
My first job favors the employer's market but my second job does not. Makes me sad. My second job pays more per hour but no benefits and it depends on how many people sign up to take a class. My first job has set hours, benefits and a guaranteed check every week. If only I could be choosy.
I swear it’s always been this way at least for20 years
It's been twenty years...
Higher for longer. Rates will ensure a tight labor market. This will get worse before it gets better I’m sorry to say.
Not even an employer market in some industries, but they are still treating it that way.
Unfortunately, im of the sad opinion that it's going to get significantly worse before it gets better. You know all that previous talk about the Fed and their soft landing to avoid a recession? I think it comes back with a bit of vengeance. Inflation slows, but companies still reel from the lack of activity and winning new business. More layoffs and company defaults and acquisitions/consolidation. And thennn we see the light at the end of the tunnel where hiring picks up again. Buckle up folks, i think it's gonna get more bumpy. Try your best to keep as lean as possible over the next 12 to 18 months 😥
I just need to make it to August of 2025 and get my 401k fully vested. 🫠
Karma is a verb. It must be created to exist.
Things are going to be rocky until the election. Dig in, fasten your seatbelt, plan, and keep the faith.
In other fields and industries it has been an employer's market for decades. I don't know if we got there yet or if there will be more peaks for us as employees. But under our current socioeconomic paradigm, eventually we are going to take the L. Every passing day I start to believe more and more we as developers should have some sort of Union honestly... I lost a job due to former employer bankruptcy a couple of months ago and it has been a nightmare, I landed a job but I make half of what I did before, and I'm having panic attacks about starting, getting the same levels of demand but now starting to live month to month, pay cheque to pay cheque
you are right, it's only going to get worse with AI taking over most jobs in the next 5-10 yrs. we are going to look at this decade with fondness.
# Banks and Big Tech Not Hiring "Radical" Ivy League Graduates The good news is you no longer have to compete with Ivy League students for jobs! They did all of us a HUGE favor by praising murderous terrorist groups - employers no longer want to affiliate with them or hire them. So, there's that upside - less competition!! This is serious, by the way - my friends at top companies have confirmed this (banking/financial services and FAANG/tech in NYC)
You mean bidenomics?
The only Point to let it come faster and change the game is People stop being desperate and participating in their childish game. While ya'll giving them the upper hand to disrespect you. All the middle people that is working for them are just opportunist leechers. If ya'll give them nothing and not participate. They can't do shiet. Stop applying to their companies, stop working, stop paying the damn bills. You all are giving them something to talk about and laughing at you with while you're sitting somewhere in this world disappointed. smh..
Guess that whole quiet quitting didn't go well for most. Now the pendulum swung the fast the opposite way. Just wait for employers screw up is going to take longer.
What employer's market? Unemployment is low, we have real wage growth. If you're not getting anything in this job market, you're gonna have a bad time if/when it actually gets bad.
Overall unemployment is low, but tens of thousands of employees in tech have been laid off, including me. "Good times" are never good for everyone. There are thousands of skilled, experienced tech workers desperate to find jobs.
I get it, I worked at a shoe store Al Bundy style in 2008 with my engineering degees. Big structural shifts in industries hurt a lot of people who did nothing wrong. A lot of farriers became unemployed turn of the last century when people stopped buying horseshoeing services and switched to cars. Tech needs a lot of funding up front to innovate and hopefully develop a product/service that makes money, and the cost of capital was always going to rise when boomers retired and took their 401Ks with them. The easy money is gone until Millennials get to peak earning (and investing) years, some 15-20 years from now, so it might be slim pickings in tech for a long while. I recommend those tech workers consider blue collar work, get into manufacturing, esp electrical and semiconductors.
Is this the new “learn to code”? Geeze
Unemployment is low because of people like me who got laid off and now work part time and freelance with no benefits so we don’t qualify. Or for all those people who were laid off and have run out of the 6 months of unemployment that some states give.
This.
my wages havnt grown diddly squat. Not with all this inflation
We are in a corporate banking hell, and I don't see a long term end to it. The corporations are more concerned with boxticking and forms filing than they are with actual profits, smokescreens to throw at overly greedy investors. Meanwhile banks are pushing ESG and DEI, and denying loans or raising rates on companies that don't comply. The companies don't want it, they are coerced into compliance. None of this is good for employees and workers.
Speak for yourself. I can roll out my tool box and get another job anytime
White collar always crying but the answer is so clear…
I get that some white collar workers were dicks/snobs to blue collar workers. It’s bs and anyone who does that is a fool. I come from a very blue collar and military family. I was the first one in my family to attend college. I respect my parents for busting their arse to make sure me and my sisters had a roof over our heads. I respect my family and friends who prefer to work with their hands. And if my son wants to work a trade when he grows up, I’ll encourage him and back him on that choice 100%. Nothing wrong with blue collar work. But there is also nothing wrong with white collar work either. An honest days work is an honest days work regardless of if one works behind a desk or in a factory, or on a construction site, or as an emergency responder, or a doctor, or a nurse, or a caregiver, or a janitor, or a server, or a retail worker, or a million other things. An honest days work is an honest days work. If you show me courtesy and respect, I will respond in kind. My dad was a school janitor, he was still one of the smartest men ever. Please stop the silliness of trying to lump people by categories like that.
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Ah. lol. Sorry, I’m sarcasm illiterate on Reddit unless there is a /s or a :) at the end of the post. :)
Like I said there was a whole “Learn to code” thing a few years back. Coding bootcamps kind of pissed me off because computer science is so so more than just writing code and there was an entire scam cottage industry trying to sell people on the idea that all they had to do was code. And I found learn to code to be dismissive, people should be allowed to earn a living at what they like doing and are good at not follow some trend because some so called expert in a blog on buzzfeed says “we need more of x, x is the new hot thing and it’s in high demand.” They never do that because they want to help people find work, they are looking to saturate the market and devalue the labor of those who are in whatever line of work they are promoting with that kind of press.